***Christian General Thread***

Finally, an interesting thread, bump!

only the power of CRACK COCAINE can redeem you

>>37936745
Drugs are only good for a season, my friend.

>>37936745
Just like this anon said: >>37936745 the reward is temporary and it will only lead to distress in the future.

>>37936148
What if I don't believe in God as a physical entity but as an abstraction of the Ideal?

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>>37936148
>One enters into heaven through faith alone
James chapter 2 disagrees.

But you're literally doing the Lord's work, so keep it up.

May the Lord bless you for your efforts.

>largest religion in the world
>protestant

>>37936898
>Actually here's the answer
Good question! I deliberately not include the answer so that people can ask this question and I can respond to it. The reason why I do this is because I believe that through conversation and effective questioning it can cause you to think deeper about the truth of the gospel. Ok, I'll begin.

Yes, we are saved by faith alone apart from works. This is an undeniable truth of scripture Jut look at this verse from Ephesians in the Bible

>For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Ephesians 2:8-9

But then this makes one wonder. Doesn't this contradict James?

>You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.
James 2:24

But what one must first understand is that there are two kinds of faith. One is false faith, the type that even the devil has, then there's true faith; the type that brings forth good fruits IE proof of it's existence by doing good works. A better verse to understand this would be on James as well.

>https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=james+2:14-20
James 2:14-20

So what does this tell us? It says that if you have faith but it does not bring good fruits then it is false. A truly saved man will do good works not to get something out of God since his heavenly place has been set for him since he has been saved by the blood of Christ but rather that we do it out of love. You treat your children nicely out of love not to seem good to them, and so we do the same for god. We love God and so try to please him. Theoretically, you could be saved and go out on a murder spree, but you wouldn't do that due to your love of God.

Hope that answered your question.

>>37936892
Well, I believe that you have to believe in the God of scripture. It's not enough to just believe in one god but you have to believe in the triune one.

>>37936917
Yep, we are the true faith.

>>37936989
do you think god wants us to go to heaven?

>>37937260
>This is good and pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
1 Timothy 2:3-4

Yes, he does. And if you just believe in him them you will go heaven!

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How do you square with evolution?

>>37937422
I personally don't believe in it but I have heard of some Christians who have tried to harmonise the scriptures with modern science. At times I agree with them but at other times I sometimes agree.

are protestants welcome here? orinigal and honest

>>37937453
Have you read my OP? I'm a reformed Baptist!

>>37937452
I'm just curious, what confuses you about evolution? It's one of the most widely accepted scientific theories in existince, and it forms the cornerstone of biology

>>37937470
honestly i'm tired and im not sure if this is a yes or a no, i only recently found god but i recognise you from my meaning of life thread, so hi again dude

>>37937478
I'm very doubtful of it. I mean just because it's one of the most widely accepted scientific theories in existence that doesn't mean it's true. Think of it this way. The people who browse /pol/ don't believe in the out of Africa theory, but It's one of the most widely accepted scientific theories in existence! But despite this, they tend to still disagree for whatever reason and regard it as false.

Basically what I'm trying to say is I just don't tend to appeal to authority. Science can be wrong sometimes too, ya know.

>>37937538
Oh, hi glad you're here. Since you have recently found God and are too tired to talk you can join our discord group which I have provided the link for in my OP above.

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>>37937555
>The people who browse /pol/ don't believe in the out of Africa theory, but It's one of the most widely accepted scientific theories in existence!
So what you're saying is, you're in agreement with a bunch of conspiracy theorists?

>Basically what I'm trying to say is I just don't tend to appeal to authority.
Isn't that what appealing to the bible is? Or to God?

>Science can be wrong sometimes too, ya know.
Buddy, if evolution is wrong, we have to rethink 200 years of science across hundreds of different disciplines.

>>37937590
okay i will, thank you very much

>>37937615
>So what you're saying is, you're in agreement with a bunch of conspiracy theorists?
I guess. I believe in the out of Africa theory because it doesn't go against my belief in the Bible. But with evolution I just doubt it.

>Isn't that what appealing to the Bible is? Or to God?
Yes, you could say that but it's better to appeal to God than anything else.

>Buddy, if evolution is wrong, we have to rethink 200 years of science across hundreds of different disciplines.
Yeah, we would. Could you expand on this point specifically: "across hundreds of different disciplines."

>>37937656
Great, would love to see you there!

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>>37937714
>I believe in the out of Africa theory because it doesn't go against my belief in the Bible. But with evolution I just doubt it.
But evolutionary theory posits mankind's origins are in Africa. I don't understand

>Yes, you could say that but it's better to appeal to God than anything else.
Which is, quite literally, an appeal to authority.

>Could you expand on this point specifically: "across hundreds of different disciplines."
Just about every scientific discipline has contributed to the development of evolutionary theory, and benefits from evolutionary theory (biology chiefly). It's probably an exaggeration to say "hundreds," but you get the point.

More importantly, where do you think mankind came from?

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Does God watch me jerk off?

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Eastern orthodoxy is the only path.

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>dead kike on a stick
>sandnigger religion

>>37937879
What did he mean in John 10:16?

>>37937849
>Which is, quite literally, an appeal to authority.
God is my authority. He's an omnipotent, omniscience and omnipresent being. So his authority means something.

>Just about every scientific discipline has contributed to the development of evolutionary theory
I don't tend to talk about those things since I don't feel as though I am qualified to talk about science. But the main reason for my doubt is the bible. There are some who claim that the Bible might teach it but I don't see that "yet." But if I do see that it is taught in scripture then I would believe in it.

>>37937866
Yeah, so you probs shouldn't do it.

>>37937879
I'm protestant, so...

>>37937938
Why so much hate?

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>>37937951
And a quantifiable, verifiable scientific appeal doesn't?

>I don't tend to talk about those things since I don't feel as though I am qualified to talk about science.
I'm not trying to get into a scientific debate, argue about genes or alleles, I just want to know if you're the type of person, when faced with scientific data, will run from it, or seek out knowledge. Clearly you are the former.

>But the main reason for my doubt is the bible. There are some who claim that the Bible might teach it but I don't see that "yet." But if I do see that it is taught in scripture then I would believe in it.
So, you take the bible literally? As in genesis, great flood, all that fun stuff? That's mankind's origin? Help me understand what you're getting at

>>37937981
Why is God so lewd, watching me jerk off and all?

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>>37937981
Because your religion is in decline and your biblical beliefs are retarded?

I bump this thread
by the power of god

>>37938019
>And a quantifiable, verifiable scientific appeal doesn't?
Well, that's the thing about science. It's not infallible. There is a chance, although quite small, that it might wrong. But God is never wrong since he is the one who created the universe and it's logic that we live in.

>Clearly you are the former.
No, it's not that it's just that science is not my place, so I tend to just stay away from it.

>So, you take the bible literally? As in Genesis, great flood, all that fun stuff? That's mankind's origin? Help me understand what you're getting at
I believe it as literal to an extent. I believe that science can better help us understand the Bible. In places that it talks about the four corners of the earth I know it's talking about north east south and west because of science. But in the end, if the bible says something clearly then it is quite clear what God means by this.

>>37938034
It's not a sin to look but a sin to lust. God sees all and will judge us based on our actions.

>>37938075
>your religion is in decline
Sadly that's true but not a reason to disbelieve.

>biblical beliefs are retarded?
Like what?

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>>37938140
>Well, that's the thing about science. It's not infallible
Your right, it can be wrong. But hold on
>But God is never wrong since he is the one who created the universe and it's logic that we live in.
Yoo hold the fuck up. Scientific laws are the laws of the universe we live in, yes? And God created them...and yet
>it might wrong
That's a contradiction lad, unless God created broken laws of science and nature. Either way, that's not important to the discussion

>No, it's not that it's just that science is not my place, so I tend to just stay away from it.
Sounds more to me like you're just being willfully ignorant if the answers are right in your face. I mean, evolution is taught in like...grade school, dude. Were you homeschooled or something?

>I believe it as literal to an extent. I believe that science can better help us understand the Bible
And in places where science blatantly contradicts the bible? You like it when it helps validates your "theories," but when it goes against your beliefs it's not good science, it's "might wrong"?
Like the age of the earth, the development of life, etc?

>>37938172
>Sadly that's true but not a reason to disbelieve.
Christianity is a meme that's gone on wayyy too long

>Like what?
>God made the earth in 6 days
>A great flood wiped everything off the earth
>People can come back to life
>Every language and culture came from a sandnigger tower in the desert

Listen here you goddam prot bitch, the Catholic Church is one true church of Jesus Christ and you get to heaven through faith and good works you absolute buffoon

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>>37938172
So what you're telling me is...god is watching me whack off. And he's watching his "clergy" touch little boys?

That's lewd af anon

>>37938266
6 days thing is no longer believe and the majority of christians believe in the big bang theory and evolution (both of which theorized by theists), the flood was a local flood and
>people coming back to life
was jesus ascending to heaven, he rose, he didnt come back to life you idiot

>>37938237
>Yoo hold the fuck up. Scientific laws are the laws of the universe we live in, yes? And God created them...and yet. it might wrong.
You kinda missed my point. I was saying that our conclusions of the world might be wrong, but God can't be.

>Sounds more to me like you're just being willfully ignorant if the answers are right in your face.
I have way too much on my hands right now to starts studying evolution. Perhaps something that I will do later in life when I'm well into the thresholds of adulthood. But as of now, I'll just study church history and the Bible itself.

>Like the age of the earth, the development of life, etc?
Not a young earth creationist. And the development of the earth could very well be metaphorical. I think you might wanna read the work by Thomas Aquinas who discusses issues like these.

>>37938274
See what I wrote here: >>3793698

>>37938306
How? He's judging.

>>37938330
please, learn the bible

>>37938274
see what I wrote over here:>>37936989

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>>37938358
Nope, I acknowledged your point, just pointed out a contradiction. Laws of nature are...laws created by God, right? But science, according to you "might be wrong," but "God is never wrong." You see the contradiction here right? Anyway, that's not important.

>I have way too much on my hands right now to starts studying evolution.
That's fine, because you were SUPPOSED to have been taught it at an early age. Maybe you just forgot, or chose not to listen? I don't know

>Not a young earth creationist. And the development of the earth could very well be metaphorical. I think you might wanna read the work by Thomas Aquinas who discusses issues like these.
So if it was metaphorical, when do you think original sin occurred? How do you think humans came to be? Are we made in God's image then if it's metaphorical?

Further, what portions of the bible can be taken as metaphor and others as fact?

>>37938386
Does God get off to me touching myself? Does he get off to priests touching little boys?

>>37938330
Awesome, so I know not to take ANY of the pivotal events in the bible as literal. Nice religion you got there.

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Hey GAYTHIESTS If God isn't real then how come my bible comes with a free skateboard decal inside?

Checkmate, fags

>>37938451
>But science, according to you "might be wrong," but "God is never wrong."
Yeah, you have missed my point. I was saying that God is always correct, but science is fallible, it can be wrong. And all it would take is one false conclusion to make a part of science false.

God =/= science. Science is man's trying to figure out ow the world works and can be wrong at times. On the other hands, God is infallible.

>That's fine, because you were SUPPOSED to have been taught it at an early age. Maybe you just forgot, or chose not to listen? I don't know
yeah, I was taught it but there was a time when schools also taught that the earth was flat. But that didn't work out very well, did it?

>sin occurred?
After both as soon as Adam and Eve ate from the apple of the tree of knowledge.

>How do you think humans came to be?
Through God making them. It doesn't go into too much detail and has led some to think that they were created through evolution.

>Are we made in God's image then if it's metaphorical?
We are but not in the literal sense that we are mini-gods but rather like him we desire justice and to not be wronged among other things. This is all a gift from God. We are like God.

>Further, what portions of the Bible can be taken as metaphor and others as fact?
#It's fairly obvious depending on the context, but a better way to understand is to know the linguistic style of 1st-century Israel and understand how they spoke. So short paragraphs which don't go into detail and seem to be using vague and majestic language tend to be metaphorical. But other things such as the resurrection and Jesus walking on water seem to be actual events that happened based off of the context.

>>37938566
Nope, he wants you to stop sinning and come to know him.

>>37938699
Interesting. If you have any questions, then feel free to ask.

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>>37938716
Awesome! I do have a question! Why is Christianity in decline? Could it be because your beliefs are simply retarded?

>>37938716
So we can be jerkoff buddies? I thought you said whacking it wasn't a sin?

>>37938767
>Why is Christianity in decline?
Becuase it was predicted by God. Christianity has always been a minority. Just simply having a cross and going church every Sunday isn't enough for you to be a Christian.

>>37938781
I think you missed my point. Jerking is bad but God sees your sin, and on the day of judgement he will hold you accountable for what you have done in the flesh.

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>>37938700
IGod made science. And natural laws cannot be wrong, and God cannot be wrong, but science CAN be wrong...I don't think you even understand the point that you're making.
It's really not important though.

>yeah, I was taught it but there was a time when schools also taught that the earth was flat. But that didn't work out very well, did it?
Funny, there was also a time when schools taught that God made us. Whatever happened to that?

>After both as soon as Adam and Eve ate from the apple of the tree of knowledge.
When in the literal or metaphorical garden of eden? The one that literally contradicts with science, or the one that you think we should take metaphorically.

>#It's fairly obvious depending on the context, but a better way to understand is to know the linguistic style of 1st-century Israel and understand how they spoke.
Apparently not, when there are still YEC's and people like myself on this earth.

Why don't you do me the favor, since you're a biblical authority, and tell me which of these events I should take as literal and which as metaphorical? That would be nice:

>Creation of earth in genesis
>Adam & Eve in the Garden of Eden
>Tower of Babel
>Noah, the ark and the flood

>But other things such as the resurrection and Jesus walking on water seem to be actual events that happened based off of the context.
Ah, things recorded only in the bible and nowhere else. Nice.

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>>37938867
Damn man that's great! Even your own God thinks your religion is retarded

>Christianity has always been a minority
What is the dark ages and the crusades for $400, Alex. OH you probably meant on a global scale huh? Yeah, that tends to happen when the most important events on earth supposedly happen in a small strip of desert and nowhere else, and are only revealed to a small group of privileged kikes.

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>>37938867
So God is watching me jerk off. Thank you for confirming that.

How do you know he's not getting off to it? Are you claiming to know God? That's fucked up anon

>>37936148
>One enters into heaven through faith alone
I'll never understand this. Why did Jesus spend so much time healing the sick, helping the poor or denouncing sin when you can enter heaven only by having faith? What was the point of it all? Sounds pretty heretical to me.

>>37938910
>God cannot be wrong, but science CAN be wrong
Yes, I'm here defining science as humans trying to make conclusions based on observations about the universe, which can be wrong. But God, on the other hand, cannot and is infallible.

>Funny, there was also a time when schools taught that God made us. Whatever happened to that?
You haven't really answered my point but have only just moved the goal post. But that was never simply taught that God created us that's it. Science was also in involved like how were we created and what not.

>When in the literal or metaphorical garden of Eden? The one that literally contradicts with science,
I believe in the garden of Eden. Also, how does it contradict with science?

>Apparently not, when there are still YEC's and people like myself on this earth.
What is YEC? Also, even if it was clear people would still just try to find other reasons to disbelieve in the Bible.

>Why don't you do me the favour, you're a biblical authority
I am most definitely not, but I'll try help you out.

>which of these events I should take as literal and which as metaphorical?
---------------------------------------------------------------------
>Creation of earth in Genesis
Metaphorical. Thomas Aquinas talks about how the words used are parallel to that of early Jewish parables and tales. So most likely it is metaphorical. Also, there are gaps in between, and one might assume that the days are not meant to be literal.

>Adam & Eve in the Garden of Eden
True.

>Tower of Babel
True

>Noah, the ark and the flood
True

>Ah, things recorded only in the Bible and nowhere else. Nice.
Actually, there are loads of evidence for the reduction, and it is something that is agreed almost unanimously but all theist, atheist and agnostic scholars.

>>37938949
>Damn man that's great! Even your own God thinks your religion is retarded
o you know what a non-sequitur is?

>What is the dark ages and the crusades for
Simply having a cross and saying you're Christian doesn't mean you're a true one. Let's read the Bible and let it tell us what a true believer is to do.

>>37938949
>How do you know he's not getting off to it?
Lust is a sin and God does not sin.

>Are you claiming to know God? That's fucked up anon
Yep!

>>37936148
God bless you and all the other anons in this thread, believers or not

I went to church for the first time in years last week, though I've been a Christian for a few years. It was the best I've felt in a while. You can really feel God's presence
Matthew 18:20 -
For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them

>>37939054
It was for his love of people that compelled him to so. Yes, one enters into heaven by faith alone, but there is still a lot of hardships that some face in life. Christ came down and healed people to ease them of pain, but that wasn't the only point. There was a deeper meaning in that the fact that despite he did miracles and stuff people still disbelieved him. The Pharisees said that he was taking out demons by the power of the devil, which was, in fact, an unforgivable sin. The people who "followed" him all went running when he was about to be crucified. In fact, they didn't really like him and thought since he has powers they could gain something from him.

While He was in Jerusalem at the Passover Feast, many people saw the signs He was doing and believed in His name. 24But Jesus did not entrust Himself to them, for He knew all men. 25He did not need any testimony about man, for He knew what was in a man
John 2:23-24

It was him making a point, him trying to tell us something and overall teach us a lesson.

Hope that answered your question.

>>37939202
Amen anon! Glad you enjoyed it. You can join our discord group which I have provided the link for in my OP above.

>>37939121
>Yep!
Oh shit anon, yous goin ta hell

>>37938910
Not the resurrection the resurrection. My bad.

>>37939248
"This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
John 17:3

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>>37939086
>You haven't really answered my point
Well, I only did what you did. Thought it was appropriate to point out that. I figured you were going for a "well, science is always changing and popular consensus can be different one day" so I thought I'd include another piece of "popular" (though I believe Christianity is hemorrhaging followers) consensus into the mix.

>I believe in the garden of Eden. Also, how does it contradict with science?
Well, the story of mankind dates back many millions of years. There were many different iterations of species leading up to "us," including different kinds of humans! Many! Maybe contradiction was a strong word. I just find the "garden of eden" thing leaves a lot of questions. Knowing what we know about humans (what I just stated), which kind of humans were in the garden of eden at the time? They simply couldn't have been the only two either.

>What is YEC?
YEC=Young Earth Creationism.
>Also, even if it was clear people would still just try to find other reasons to disbelieve in the Bible.
Yes, like science and reason, or the fact that it clashes with our understanding of how the universe works?

>Adam & Eve
Would you like me to explain why this is wrong?

>Tower of Babel
Would you like me to explain why this is wrong?

>Noah, the ark and the flood
Oh man, now I REALLY wanna explain why this is impossible.

>unanimously
Oh shit, I HAVE talked to you before. You're the guy who thinks a few new testament "scholars" who assert the supernatural "can be possible" counts as unanimous agreement among actual scholars. Damn dude, don't you know lying is a sin?

What's that book you're going to recommend to me now, The Case for Christ? That one?

Thank you Op for posting a Christian thread. I always like to see hese on /r9k/.

>>37939319
>You're the guy who thinks a few new testament "scholars" who assert the supernatural "can be possible" counts as unanimous agreement among actual scholars
it is and if you're the guy who I think I talked to last time then I sent you proof of non christians who believe that it in fact happened.

>>37939392
That's great lad! Also, if you want you can join our discord group which I have provided the link for in my OP above.

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>>37939397
We're not talking about Christian/Non-Christian "scholars," we're talking about people who AREN'T New Testament "scholars" verifying your wild claims. We're talking historians, archeologists, sociologists, psychologists and geologists verifying that it happened. And we're also talking about consensus and your use of the word "unanimous."

>non christians who believe that it in fact happened.
Well if it makes you feel any better, I believe that they believe it happened.

NOW, would you like to hear why Noah's Ark is literally impossible?

>>37939490
>We're not talking about Christian/Non-Christian "scholars," we're talking about people who AREN'T New Testament "scholars" verifying your wild claims.
You mean historians? Ok then yeah, there are historians who believe in the vision to the 500.

>And we're also talking about consensus and your use of the word "unanimous."
Well, that's the thing, not every historian, archaeologists, sociologists, psychologists and geologists are researching the Bible. We're just talking about from those who do study it.

>Well if it makes you feel any better, I believe that they believe it happened.
Ok, now you're the conspiracy theorist. This is literally a unanimously agreed fact among atheist, agnostic and theist Bible scholars and historians.

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>>37939638
>You mean historians? Ok then yeah, there are historians who believe in the vision to the 500.
I believe that a few historians at some Christian Universities believe in the acts of Jesus Christ as literal fact. Though, I'd be interested in seeing some historical documentation (that isn't the bible) that proves Christ walked on water, fed the many, healed the sick, etc.

>Well, that's the thing, not every historian, archaeologists, sociologists, psychologists and geologists are researching the Bible.
And why do you think secular scholars (see: The vast majority of scholars) aren't studying the bible? If it were such a foundational document, and could be verified as being true across the board, ours would be a drastically, drastically different path. There would be no "secular" scholarship, because biblical pursuit would be so foundational. We'd devote all of our time to understanding and researching the bible. But we don't. It's a niche area of interest for a reason.

>We're just talking about from those who do study it.
Would you ask a creationist to explain evolutionary theory?

>Ok, now you're the conspiracy theorist.
Do go on.

>This is literally a unanimously agreed fact among atheist, agnostic and theist Bible scholars and historians.
So basipally, they believe that people believe they saw Jesus do those things? Good to know.
>Bible Scholars and historians
Hey, at least you're being honest about your "unanimous" agreement among "scholars"

Now, how would you like to hear about how the Ark and the flood is bullshit?

>>37939835
Hey, do you have discord or something? I would love to carry on this talk, but it's 2:17 am here in London, and I kinda need to go. I also, don't wanna lose you and not being able to answer some of your points so could you perhaps send me your discord or something and then maybe I can answer your points at a later time?

it'spepenotpepe#4481 This is me btw.

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>>37940013
Nah mate. No discord. It's been a fun talk though. Maybe we'll meet again.

It's 7:30 p.m. in burgerstan

I'm going to unironically recommend you visit this place (and yes, it is Reddit): https://www.reddit.com/r/DebateReligion/

I think you'd enjoy visiting there and discussing your ideas with some of the people there. It's got a good mix of people, who are willing to politely engage in debate with you about anything. I'd be interested in seeing what they make of your points.

Have a Gondola, and have a good night.

>>37940103
Been there and enjoyed it. I was a RedditFag before I came to 4chan.

And a good night to you too.