>live agonizing life of misery and no hope >commit suicide

>>37758053
It would be mighty convenient if when you die your consciousness jumps to a parallel universe in which you didn't die or were somehow preserved past your expiration.

FUCKIN BBBBBBBBUUUUUUMMMMMPPPPPPPPPPPPPP
ORUKIBHJVUBJ

This is the laziest diagram for nu age spiritualism I've ever seen.

When you die you're dead, forever.
Deal with it.

>>37758192
No, you deal with it fuck boy.
In your last moments you wont be so cocky lol

>>37758053
>>37758053
Any meaning anyone else lives by is just the mechanisms of their minds.
However, knowing we can choose the reality we live in takes some of the pressure off imo.

>>37758210

I'm pretty sure in my last moments I'll be slightly delirious from the chemical processes in my brain beginning to fail.

Because that's all consciousness is, a combination and sequence of electrochemical processes.

>>37758229
I think this has some truth. As individuals we project what we experience as reality. Which is why things like christianity and the bible is so fucking sick, because what these people are raised to believe is whats going to happen to them.

What if a meteor blows up the planet tho

>>37758339
If you say it enough times, you will almost start to believe it. Almost. ;-)

>>37758339
They project the message of Christianity onto the world around them, and the world tends to show them that reality because the human brain tends to find patterns where they might not necessarily be if it starts to look hard enough. However, because this system tends to work, it also means that you can project what you want to see into the world around you. It works better when you have more people doing this at the same time.

>>37758415
Christianity needs to be destroyed is the key message i get from this post. While im alive i will do everything in my power to destroy christianity until the day i die. Also the other post was meant for a different anon my bad.

>>37758339

I'm going to go to heaven with a beer volcano and a stripper factory because I devoutly worship the Flying Spaghetti Monster. :^)

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>>37758525
Christianity is fine. There is nothing wrong with it. It doesn't do anything wrong on its own. I'm agnostic, so I don't even personally have a stake in it. Ideology is a tool, and as such it can't really be too bad on its own. Sounds like you don't like Christianity very much.

>>37758589
I guess you could do that. But does that actually give you any meaning, anon? Does it help you fill in the holes that are present in the reality around you? If not, you might try to reconsider.

>>37758623

No, Christianity is not fine.

It is an ideology that literally teaches people to misunderstand the world and their existence.

Every devout religious follower, of any sect, is like a spiritual Wimp Lo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqaCEPwWGtc

>>37758623
If a child is raised to believe from birth that they will burn in hell, and on the day they die right before they expire they think of hell fire, according to the system of manifesting your beliefs that child will then go on to fufill their belief and will end up being tormented because of it. Take this and apply it on a mass scale and see how many people will be burining in hell because of this wicked belief system.

>>37758697
"We train him to be bad, as joke."
Again, I think following the dogma that comes with any religion is damaging to other views, so I partially agree with you.
But I think there are some aspects of Christianity that are alright. Mostly the aspects dealing with the way Jesus went about the world are fine. It's easy for simple minds to grasp, and honestly, those guys are damned to forever be like Wimp Lo whether they want to or not.

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So basically eternal recurrence like Nietzsche?

I hope my friend

>>37758281
I hate this idea what all my being

argue with my like an autist please

>>37758721
They don't need to follow all of a religion for it to work.
Also, that would be the parents fault for failing to provide other ideas to the child when it was developing. That should be considered neglectful, but it's not the fault of Christianity that people are morons.

>>37758053
>the only constant in the universe is change

the best argument for eternal life

also

I only believe what I experience myself, and since I remember always being, and can't imagine not existing, I believe myself to be immortal

problem with this reasoning?

>>37758835
The vast majority of christians teach hellfire though so what are you saying?

>>37758809

Think of how many billions of men, and women, have come and gone.

Think of all the sperm and eggs that never got used in the entire course of human history. Easily numbers over the trillions.

Dying sucks sure, but at least we got a shot at life.

Most people will simply never come into existence.

>>37758849

>The universe is defined through my existence

Surprisingly, it's not.
When you die I might read your obituary the next day, before tossing the paper in the garbage because I'm done with the sunday funnies.

>>37758921
that's exactly how it works, glad you get it

nothing besides me exists, and I'm eternal

crazy, right?

>>37758889
I'm saying that you shouldn't throw the baby out with the bathwater. No ideology should be forcibly removed because every ideology has a use. A place. It adds an extra layer to the way we perceive the world around us, and as far as I'm concerned, less ideas bumping into each other is worse for everyone. The synthesis of ideas into each other is one of the cool things that humans get, that is lost on other animals. Teach people to handle ideas like tools instead of something to squabble over.

>>37758921
The universe is what YOU are experiening. Basically the sum total of your life and memories and beliefs etc etc. Thats YOUR universe. Thats what he meant. HIS universe is HIS universe. YOUR universe is YOUR universe. We live separate lives thus separate realities freindo. Wtf is hard to grasp for your feeble normie mind?

>>37758157
It does, that's why you're still here rn

>>37759033
Most people are cowed into believing that consensus reality is the only one that exists.
It's not hard to understand what indoctrination does to someone.

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>>37759034
My post was facetious, anon.

>>37758053
arent both graphics the same except the bottom one expands on the concept of time not existing in infinity? Ive had this discussion with people before but they don't really ever follow or want to follow my proposition.

>>37758192
>>37758281
Like look at this autistic cunt lmao

>>37758809
Religion is something that had been ingrained within us for thousands of years.

Science has been around for hundreds. There is no evidence (scientifically) that suggests we pass on anywhere. We have a small electric current due to the friction in our body but that's it. How can our soul travel anywhere instantaneously.

Religion is integral. Spirituality is still considered important within us. These anti spiritualist nuts are just angrily lashing out because they fear to look within themselves and judge their actions. Christianity is the best religion and you can research just what makes it so great.

>>37758897
This is a silly idea, yea lots of things didnt happen

What the fuck does that have to do with anything about me at all?

I exist, I didn't ask for it, but I am certainly not a physical process.

I am ok with the idea of dying after my physical body dies, and honestly theres problems with the idea of dualism

But I cant explain the feelings I feel and the experiences I have on a daily basis and degrade them down to physical processes. I am necessarily talking about free will as well. Consciousness is such a nonphysical process, there is a separation of the physical world from the internal world.

I would obviously admit all of the scientific facts are true, brains are etc etc. But when you ARE the brain it is a fundamentally different question.

>>37759033

Yes, we perceive reality differently

But we experience the same reality.

Your internal perception does not define the external reality.

>>37759103
Well I actually believe in that sooo.....
(you can't prove me wrong)

>>37759173
Our brain sends millions of electronic impulses to other parts of the brain and this allows us to experience life around us. However, any experiences we do perceive this way (eg. ALL OF THEM) is false. We are NOT experiencing the actual item, we are only experiencing a projection of the item that our brain cooked up. This means that a consensus reality is not really possible. And this also means that Christianity can't possibly be the "best religion" because that would need to be an objective answer to a subjective question.

>>37759262
As much as you keep nipping at my heels to get me to argue with you, I already said the post wasn't a serious one. Being able to choose what you believe in is a lot more useful than just believing because it sounds plausible.

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>>37759217

>I cant explain the feelings I feel and the experiences I have on a daily basis and degrade them down to physical processes.

That's what science is for you dumbass.
Consciousness is 100% a physical process.

Sorry you can't handle the fact that you are just a highly ordered chemical processing organism.

>>37759259
>Your internal perception does not define the external reality

except it does kid

>>37759173
I dont think religion has anything to do with it. I just feel that on the most fundamental level that consciousness is MORE than a physical process. The idea of gestalt is that a combination of things can actually sum to something more than their individual sums. I think this idea and the idea that consciousness is inverted in someways, looking within and all based on fundamental principles.

I just think the idea that consciousness is nothing special and looking through the eyes of life is basically the same thing as a dog or even amoeba and electrical impulses define the sum of daily life. This idea depresses me. Im mostly a nihilist but I believe actual existence is special

>>37759389
>the seat of human sapience and many, many, inner workings of the brain are collectively still a huge scientific mystery
>spouting nonsense as if you were some academic authority on the matter instead of an arrogant 19-something shitposter desperate to win an internet argument

>>37759529
Erm, I don't really take one side of this argument of the other because I know there isn't really a way to argue about it. However, couldn't it still be that we don't know how it works yet but might at a later date? And if we do ever learn that then the other anons belief in physicality could still be correct.
>>37759453
Do you believe in hiveminds, anon?
Or like some sort of racial mass-memory?

>>37759259
Thats what ((you)) believe.

>>37759341
On this note, to everyone in the thread. If the brain is stimulated to feel something, or else similarly false memories of the thing are implanted, is it 'real'? I mean, obviously it isn't real in the plainest sense, but what about otherwise? On that same note, if someone were to torture you, the worst possible pain, and for 500+ years, but then they immediately returned your body perfectly intact, having wiped your memories of the experience, to the instant before it all began, is that still a negative experience? Is it even an experience at all, really, if you don't have memories of it? Like, honestly, if everyone were to forget about something, then it basically never existed in the first place. Fucking weird.

>>37759443

Except it doesn't.

If somebody see's the color "blue" as "green", they are not changing the quanta of energy in that wavelength, it's because their sensory receptors are abnormal.

You need to lay of the Deepak Chopra bullshit son, pull your head out from the rabbit hole that is your anus.

>>37759630
Your subconcious tends to keep all of that stuff. Are you saying you wiped their subconscious too?
Also, if a brain were stimulated to falsely experience something, then in theory the brain shouldn't be able to tell the difference. That's why the matrix was able to exist at all. You just stimulate the minds of what are essentially dreaming batterys or computer circuits.

>>37759389
It has nothing to do with science.
First of all science is not fact by definition, the idea of the scientific theory is induction which isnt a process for determining certainty. Induction by definition is never certain.
You test a hypothesis, the test reveals youre hypothesis is true, then you move on? What if you did the same test on the next day and it was wrong, and the next and the next etc. There are not certain principles derived from experience (scientific experiments).

Now the external world we live is very consistent and we can create systems that work on principles we have garnered from these experiments but there are no FACTS derived from these things. by facts I mean things that are inconceivable to doubt.

But I am not denying any facts you say, the brain is a physical process, I am a brain, but the consequences of a brain doing its physical things produce more than a purely physical, and the proof is that I exist and when I look at the external world I see nothing related to how I exist. My existence and the existence of the external world share no common traits.

>>37759389
I agree that everything is a 100% physical process, but I still think that there's 'more' out there. I've gone off on huge schizo rants about this before, but I'll just tl;dr it for you guys lol. Everything in the universe is made up of energy, basically no one disputes this. So this energy is just following its natural path. In this sense, it is 'Perfect' - additionally, nearly every religion describes first void, and then the One, the Light, God. I believe that they personify this energy because WE are energy, and thus we instinctively and intuitively know that every can have thoughts, emotions, etc. I also believe that our universe exists within a superposition of every other possible universe, so in this one I write: 83, but in the others I write every other possible number, as well as Shakespeare, etc. haha. This highest High is "God". And because we literally ARE a portion of this energy, it follows then that we are simply a small part of a larger Experience, within which "God" - or We - experience every possible situation, combination of events, etc. And so it follows, then, that every action is perfect, as well as equally necessary, equally important. Even those you hate, or those whom you love. It's all the same One. We're all the same Consciousness - Energy itself - changing forms and searching for new things.

>>37759611
Not at the conscious level. I could see those things being possible at the sub conscious level though.

But in general I think its much easier to explain those idea through very complex human interactions and the limitless potential of humans to pick up other humans body language etc. Especially today with tons of human interaction on the internet

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>>37759737
Always thought god was just an amalgam of all things at once, and sometimes it rejects us so we may "live" and learn and become something god will accept back into itself at a later date. Though, eventually god will need to learn to accept the parts of it that are evil too, because those things never change.

>>37759737

>I've gone off on huge schizo rants about this before

That much is already apparent

>>37759762
Memes are an example or a component of hivemind, so bringing up the internet is a good example. The idea that we're all privvy to the same exact source information and often come up with similar things, though we have never met or collaborated.

>>37759708
Originally they were using human brains for processing power, but they were forced to change it to uhh batteries somehow? because apparently the audience wouldn't understand the former plot lol. Slight tangent.

But uhh, yeah. Full brain wipe! And I know that's technically correct, but I'm just curious how other people FEEL about that. If I dream something which feels INCREDIBLE, like say I dream of taking some super-drug or similar, does anything make that experience, and the happiness derived therein, any less valid than someone experiencing it while awake? I don't believe so. That's actually why I LOVE nightmares, because they allow me to experience "death" over and over again. Even though I still get that primal fear instinct, the dreams have actually helped me to come to terms with my own mortality. That's actually also a theory as to why dreams came about in the first place: beings can experiment and learn without risk within their dreams, so if anything bad ever happens, they'll be more prepared. Like fighter pilots using simulations and all that jazz - fuck, reality is so goddamn interesting. Weird as hell, but interesting lol. I swear, we're on one of the really 'out there' and strange timelines lol. I mean, if you just think about us, and what we do, you'll see it. We're sacks of flesh and blood and bones walking around having existential crises all the damn time, we farm other creatures to eat and act like it's no big deal (I'm no vegan, but if an alien species saw us, they might consider us to be very... Primitive, or perhaps warlike), we have jails and school and societies, and even though we've sent multiple people to the moon and have launched countless satellites, we still fight about the absolute most petty bullshit. I really like the idea of absurdism. All of existence is an inside joke we're playing on Ourself. Reality is literally a meme lol

>>37759852
The post he made wasn't even that crazy, anon.
Is this place really the den of normal fags its conflated to be?

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>>37759893
Yea I mean the idea of a fundamental nonphysical hivemind is kinda retarded but the idea you are presenting is kind of the basis of sociology, that humans statistically do similar things given certain stimuli

There will be outliers always but humans are generally wired to react to certain things the same. And also encouraged to share in the same thoughts, which is basically what a meme is

>>37759719
No facts exist other than: I exist. Anything else is based upon one or more assumptions. However, scientists have agreed to follow a certain set of assumptions (such as: reality is consistent, follows the same laws everywhere and they don't change over time, things can be tested and learned, etc.) because without these assumptions, we literally couldn't accomplish anything. Conversely, I do believe that the statement, "I exist," is the only capital T True one. I, (as in all of our Superposition of an infinite number of varying levels of energy in varying combinations, following varying laws, etc.) am the only thing that exists. All of experience, including my writing this post and (y)our reading it, are contained within this.

people who laugh at spiritualism, religion and other beliefs and worship science, dont understand that a map is not the territory

yes we are made of chemicals and the worls works in a certain way abiding the laws of physics

so? that's not the whole truth about existence

read more and live more, kids

true story

btw I was 100% rationalist and atheist once, but shit happened that made me change my mind

>>37759832
>and sometimes it rejects us so we may "live"
Oh, dude! I'm not even Jewish, but I heard this somewhere and it fit in so well with what I believe that I was blown away. I'd recommend EVERYONE to read this, please. It's actually incredibly insightful.
http://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/gods-withdrawal/

>>37759852
lol

>>37759919
Awww, thanks anon. I post a lot about it on /x/, but /r9k/ is #2, because it's the only thing that has allowed me to live for as long as I have, so I'd very much like to spread it around to others.

>>37759990
Yes, and moving forward from there, I think its logical (but also an assumption) to say that actual existence itself is fundamentally separate from the outside world. We have senses to perceive the outside world but have no real access.

Basically I am saying access to the "internal" world of existence and thought is fundamentally separate from the physical world (whose existence is completely based on assumption)

as above so below, think about it

>>37759919
>The post he made wasn't even that crazy, anon.

>>37759737
>I also believe that our universe exists within a superposition of every other possible universe, so in this one I write: 83, but in the others I write every other possible number, as well as Shakespeare, etc. haha. This highest High is "God"

>>37760013
Was it drugs, anon? That's what made me change my mind and believe what I do :3 Once you experience it for yourself, as I - and many others - have, you'll know it to be an undeniable Truth: that we are God (energy), and that all of existence was made so that we could be engaged and entertained. So that we could exist. (I also read up on the whole "To be or not to be" bit in Shakespeare's writing, and when you're reading about the shit on a high dose of psychedelics, holy shit it's incredible. REALLY try to think deeply about the words, their meaning, and how each and everyone has experienced this, and both options). Think about it like this: say you learned how to control your dreams, so that you could easily lucid dream every night. At first you may just screw around, do whatever. But eventually let's say you learned to make time slow down, so the what seemed a lifetime in the dream was only a single night. Eventually, as you began to have "longer" and "longer" dreams, you'd start running out of things to do. In this dreamscape, you would be God. And so, being all-powerful, you'd get bored pretty quickly. Eventually, you'd begin to start making yourself forget that you are God. You'd live the life of a medieval peasant, or of an asteroid hurtling through space, never crashing into anything until the end of time. Hell, you'd even start dreaming about dying, or living out horror stories, zombie apocalypses, etc. I mean, why not? They're just dreams! So even though you can feel pain, and sadness, and loneliness, and desperation, and despair, and every other possible shitty feeling within the dreams, it's okay. Because eventually you'll wake up, remember Who We Are, and We'll have another notch on our belt, another experience lived, part played. This is what I feel Life, as well as all reality, is. So even if you're having an awful life (as mine has been, no worries - I'm no Norman), it's okay. It was necessary, and thus Perfect.

>>37760217
That's no crazier than Christianity. In fact, mine actually makes more sense and is a helluva lot more intuitive lol

>>37760102
That's a very interesting idea. I definitely know what you mean, and I've even felt the same way a lot of times. Consciousness, or Being, is most definitely something very special. However, when you think about it, there is no real difference between one's self and the outside world. There is no line separating the two. Apparently this is what Ego Death is, and holy shit it's incredible. When you think about it, from a purely physical point of view, you aren't having your thoughts, but your thoughts are having you. Or, rather, they ARE you. Consciousness, and the sense of self (again, we're looking at this from the perspective of pure materialism), are simply products of the physical makeup of our brains, and the rest of our bodies. I feel like you don't believe this, and that's absolutely fine! I'm not saying that materialism is correct, not at all. I'm just saying, I experienced this, Ego Death, and this is what I felt/learned. I could /feel/ myself as a very complex mixture of chemicals being ~pulled~ by the universe (and by that I mean the fundamental laws governing everything), showing me that I'm a complex mixture of chemicals, and although we're self-aware, there is nothing truly separating me from the outside world. When I'm in water, the chemicals in my skin interact with it, and this is why I get all pruney. If the energy making up each and every string or quark, or whatever fundamental particle you'd like to use, were replaced with a different source of energy and put back together, even though all of the previous 'me' is gone, I still exist and would likely not notice a single thing. It's a very interesting perspective imo, and losing all sense of self meant that I thought that I must be everything. So, I guess it was more like the imaginary barrier within my mind which separated my idea of 'self' from 'outside' dissolved, so that I felt that everything was self. That's why I believe the whole 'We are God/Energy' thing.

>>37760288

You're just as much of a loon as the bible thumping christians

>>37760569
You're absolutely free - and welcome, even! - to feel that way. However, please think about it. Don't just dismiss it outright without any thought or consideration. None of what I've said contradicts current scientific knowledge in any way. In fact, it fits in very well with both it, and many different religions (or at least their origin stories lol).

>>37760467
Lol, the thing thats funny is even if consciousness is reducible to physical phenomenon, matter itself isnt really "matter" at all because at the most fundamental levels of subatomic physics its already been discovered that all matter is is enery and vice versa. lol

>>37761362

As stated earlier, lay of the deepak chopra bullshit and remove your head from your rectal cavity.

>>37760467
I'm happy your thoughts are leading you to inner peace, but I think you've made some leaps that I think are inappropriate.

For instance, let's say three people are subsets x1, x2, and x3, and that "everything" is a set X. What you seem to be saying is x1 = x2 = x3 = X which I think is a bit much. I definitely think we are apart of the whole and that these sets aren't disjoint, but that's about it.

>>37758053
Are you really this much of a fucking mental midget? You dont go to hell of you commit suicide.