Let's have a real discussion about why the majority of humanity

Why? Because i really just do not fucking care 2bh. I just dont care enough. If i was fat or out of shape maybe i would consider it as a last ditch resort to lose weight, but im pretty /fit/

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originally this senpai oWo

>I'd really like to help people to change not just for ethical reasons, but for health and environmental reasons too.
Focus on one thing. Don't do this annoying thing where you move the goalposts.

>>37063792
I want to become a vegan tho

>>37063792

I'd like to, sadly I'm terribly lazy, but I managed to reduce the amount of meet I eat weekly in the last year.

>>37063792
Too much hassle and I don't want to be dependent on artifical supplements.

I like the taste and don't care about animals

Humans are omnivores, dipshit. Also, does morality automatically make your diet healthy?

grew up with it
like the taste
used to it
dont care

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>>37063848
Do you believe in any form of ethical actuality?

Do you wish for Humanity to live grow and prosper?

>>37063792

The problem is torture of animals and mass-production of meat. Eating meat is human nature. There's nothing wrong with it. Problem is that we consume too much.

>>37063854
What's with the halal slaughter?

>>37063792

Prove the benefits first. Also, I torture animals for fun, nothing you say here will change that, so you better bring up some good points.

>>37063792
Because I know I won't be living for a very long time. Meat's convinient. It has a good taste. If I cared for my life I would probably eat less meat, but not become a vegan. Even if I were to stop eating meat, that wouldn't affect all of the other people who eat meat.
So, because I don't care for my life and even if I did it would change nothing.

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>>37063858
In any argument it is incredibly difficult to maintain just one singular point, especially when the ethical and the nutritional argument often are forced to overlap due to carnist fallacies.

Meat is what brought us out of the trees. The search for meat is what made us human.

>>37063792
I eat animals that wouldn't even exist had they not been bred for food.

Ethical concerns can be alleviated by choosing meat from known humane sources.

Humans evolved to eat meat.

Meat production is a massive industry and tens of thousands of people would lose their jobs if we stopped eating it, and the economy would be shattered.

It tastes fucking great.

Vegans are annoying and pushy and pissing them off is fun.

The animals will be unhappy if we stop participating in the food chain. Animals have powers, especially in death, so don't disrespect them. Always do what they tell you, which is communicated telepathically.

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>>37063792
I eat meat because I choose to.

A good chunk of our diet in prehistoric times was meat, followed up by fruit and vegetables. This can be considered our ideal natural diet when you also combine it with cardio which we got a lot of. The problem is that we eat way to much processed sugar and carbs and we are sedentary. Veganism makes little sense in the long run as your calories are going to be made up of mostly garbage sources such as starches which can give you all sorts of problems over time. That or you eat lots of fruit which is filled in sugar which is also bad.

>>37063977
What is healthy and what is ethical treatment of animals are two different arguments. Keep them seperate.

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best argument for this shit coming through
>PLANTS HAVE FEELINGS TOO
thats right faggot you literally cannot be ethically right
consuming anything is unethical youre ending life to sustain yours get fucked kid

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What has a cow ever done for ME?

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Choosing what you get to eat is a rich persons problem. I either eat whats there or i dont eat. You can be as virtuous as you like with your diet if you are privaliged enough to have control over it, the rest of us make do.

>>37063854
>vegan STILL interrupting people in their own comics
Classic

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>>37063862
What's stopping you friend?

>>37063886
That's a good start and every little difference is important.
It's really not too hard to make the transition once you learn how to eat effectively.

>>37063890
Vegans only NEED to supplement B12 which meat eaters are also commonly deficient in, this is because B12 comes from bacteria and other microbes in the soil, as we thorough wash our plants before consumption we miss out on that nutrient.

Furthermore cows chickens and pigs are are supplemented with B12.

>>37063907
Do you not believe in any ethical theory?

>>37063921
This is not true, I'd challenge you to name on physiological adaptation humans have made for eating meat. Even if this were true just because we CAN eat meat does not meat we are compelled to, it's obvious that meat consumption is not necessary so even if we were meant to eat it that is not a good enough reason to permit it.

>>37063928
Do you not believe in any ethical theory?

being vegan is only doable if you basically are a plant yourself. what I am by that, is that you do nothing. you sit around and do nothing all day every day
those of us who work manual labor can't sit there and eat 4 pounds of plants and nuts on our lunch break to get the protein and calories we need.

>>37064125
Placing human emotions on inhuman organisms is illogical. Besides, we already strive to making their deaths as painless as possible. Its a far better life for most than those who get eaten alive by wolves or other predators in the wild.

>>37064125
If you ate veg without washing it them you would eat insects and other nasties all over it.
And that would be eating meat; killing those li'l critters just to get your vitamins. Sounds just as evil to me.

>>37063792
>he thinks meat is unhealthy for you

This meme has ruined lives. Your heart can't function properly without animal protein.

>>37064204
Insects don't make cute faces so it's okay anon

>>37064125

Silly vegan, we humans live for ourselves, not for your imaginary ideals. We'll do whatever, eat whatever, fuck whatever, hurt whatever, as long as we aren't threatened. Discussion is pointless here because you couldn't possibly hope to bring us more pleasure with "moral" restraint than with perverse freedom.

>>37064125
I once removed a tick from my dog and then fed it to him. Whats the ethical theory on that?

My vegan friend fucked up his tooth in less than a year of becoming vegan.
>do you take calcium supplements man?
>uhhh no...
He always smells gross now because of his cooking and lost probably about 40 lbs. I personally don't find vegetables to be all that filling and I certainly don't enjoy eating enough to spend extra time doing it.

>>37063982
This. It doesn't require that much intelligence to sneak up on a leaf.

OP's problem is that they think their personal standards should be applied to everyone. You're a missionary.

>>37063931
No. What sort of fucking stupid question is that?

>>37063792
> I'd really like to help people to change not just for ethical reasons, but for health and environmental reasons too.

> Ethical reason
let me laugh xd i m not gonna change for an ethical reason, i don t care about wether or not it s good to kill animals

> environmental reason
i ll be already dead when there will be massive environemental problems

> health reason
Yeah maybe that one, i m overweigth, but you know i'd better eat meat and die young than being a vegan and live old, as food is one of the only thing i still enjoy in my life

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>>37063934
Just because something is human nature does not mean that it is ethically reasonable to do it. In some cases murder and assault are human nature but we consider these things against the law. Stealing is also part of human nature.

I agree though cutting down drastically is the first step.

>>37063937
This is how pigs are commonly killed the other popular method is gassing. I'm not looking to fearmonger in this thread.

>>37063940
Does it not seem ridiculous that the person who does not kill unnecessarily has to prove his case over the one who does.
If you enjoy killing and eating animals and you do not believe it is wrong to murder, then I can only appeal to health and environmental benefits of veganism.
Simply put It is better for your personal health to not eat animals (You can still kill and torture them if you really like to).
If you might care for the elongation and prosperity of humanity; veganism will prevent the environmental damages caused thus far by excessive meat production and consumption

>>37063955
Why aren't you going to be living very long, I'm sorry to hear that.

I understand the claims to convenience but it is actually very easy to be a vegan now in the future, especially since it is become vastly more popular.

Yes if one person was vegan in a world of carnists it would be fairly insignificant, but obviously this is not the case, by not eating meat you help to save a lot of animals, not to mention the environment.

>>37063982
This is misconstrued fact, it is true that eating meat was a developmental stage of our development, however this was simply as a means for survival, as I have said it is not necessary for us to consume meat nowadays for survival therefore we ought to question why we continue to mass produce slaughter.

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>Were torturing animals

Fuck off, I bet you think nuclear energy is going to kill us all also.

The cow,chicken and the sheep have better under human protection than in the wild. We feed them and end them humanely unlike their natural predators,cold and hunger

I cant even fanthom how vegans believe in their "world is fair for everyone if it was for the meddling humans fantasy"

>>37064125
>I'd challenge you to name on physiological adaptation humans have made for eating meat

the fucking pointy canine teeth in your mouth right now

>>37063792

I don't give a shit if is it ethical or not. Happy?

>>37063792
I like the way it tastes.

The only ethical I thing I can do is not reproduce. By not reproducing I subject no more innocence to punishment by existence. Whatever exists now is guilty of existing and deserves whatever comes to it.

Sorry vegemen, I don't see about the future. Only what happens in the short amount of time I'll be alive.

>>37064354

>Does it not seem ridiculous that the person who does not kill unnecessarily has to prove his case over the one who does

Well, duh, you're the one trying to get me to change. And you've just failed. No numbers, no scientific data, just a bunch of words. Gonna go and cook me a nice juicy steak

>>37063792
Meat tastes good. I don't care about ethics or health.

>>37064043
Why would prehistoric times be a good model for diet when they aren't a good model for anything else? Science has made a few advances in our understanding.

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>>37063983
>I eat animals that wouldn't even exist had they not been bred for food.

Just because the animals existence is decided by the growth of the meat industry following the world wars does not mean that the suffering and pain alleviated. These animals have been given the right to live under constant suffering. You are trying to imply we somewhat gave these animals a gift by deciding to kill and eat them in vast numbers. It's an interesting point though nonetheless.

>Humans evolved to eat meat

I would ask you to name on physiological adaptation humans made to eat meat.
Even if this were true we do not require meat to survive OR live healthily.

Meat is in fact detrimental to our health and the leading cause of heart disease and diabetes in the western world.

>Meat production is a massive industry and tens of thousands of people would lose their jobs if we stopped eating it, and the economy would be shattered.

I'm sure most vegans agree that an immediate reversal on meat consumption is not realistic or desirable, the process will inevitably be slow.
Jobs will be created for the replacement foods. Farming vegetables, producing meat free alternative etc.

Agreeably small butchers will suffer, but I highly doubt everyone in the world will cease to eat meat, they would be able to charge more.

>It tastes fucking great

This is not an argument.

>Vegans are annoying and pushy and pissing them off is fun.

This is not an adequate reason to rape kill and torture 50 billion animals a year, as well as cause the death of thousands of humans to heart disease and some cancers.

>>37064094
It's not a problem but a blessing. Why would you call it a problem?

>>37064486
>when they aren't a good model for anything else?
That's where you're wrong, kiddo.

>>37064490
blah blah blah who cares about the feelings of animals whose only purpose is to be turned into food?

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>>37064163
This couldn't be more fallacious, you do not need to eat such vast quantities of food that it takes up your time. Plant based foods are far more nutrient dense than any meat alternatives.

You can test this for yourself on "Cronometer"

There are Vegan bodybuilders power lifters and athletes, do you think they find it hard to get enough protein.

>>37064490
>This is not an argument.
Then neither are your cries of ethical treatment.
>This is not an adequate reason to rape kill and torture 50 billion animals a year, as well as cause the death of thousands of humans to heart disease and some cancers.
Yes it is.

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>>37063792
1) it is healthy
2) it is nutritious
3) it is calorie dense
4) it is delicious
BAM! Four reasons to eat meat

because it is naturally craved by humans and a small amount can be healthy. ethically and pragmatically it would make sense to not eat meat, because raising livestock is terribly inefficient compared to farming.

but you could never get people to stop eating it and in poorer countries it would make many people malnourished. not to mention such domesticated animals would not exist if we weren't eating them. I think it would be best to only raise livestock on open ground, so it is ethical and meat overall meat consumption is limited.

>>37064572
the protein is what really matters. calories are calories, everything has that. plants and fruit ain't got shit for protein.

all vegan lifters not only look like shit, but they put up weak weight. they eat retarded amounts of shit, tons of soy protein powder, all that to look like a slightly buff asian boy.

eat meat or live like a plant/

people would be much more satisfied and dignified if we subsisted on a diet of raw meat as our nature demands

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>2015+2
>not using sunlight as your only nourishment

>>37064625
maybe trying to look like an ape so you can hookup with stacy isn't the most important thing in the fucking world.

>>37064670
>literally stealing energy from the universe
you unsensitive monster

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Okay faggots, stop being retarded and delusive. Stop trying to prove your morality or humanity or whatever here. This place is fully anonymous. You don't need excuses here, save them for real life. Admit to selfishness, indulgence and mercilessness. Our capability to excercise them is credit to our intelligence and power, so by sticking to shitty "morals" you admit to weakness and stupidity.

>>37064125
>This is not true, I'd challenge you to name on physiological adaptation humans have made for eating meat.
The high protein levels present in meat is literally the reason prehistoric humans were able to grow such large brains. Without meat, we would literally be stupid hairy fucking apes.

>>37063792
We are the apex predator. We have the right to eat animals because they're dumb and we're smart.
>inb4 you wouldn't eat a dog or cat
Yes I would, I like trying new and exotic foods.

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>implying animals matter in any way possible
>implying its healthier not to eat meat
also fuck the environment, nice spooks. it completely doesnt matter if animals die

>>37064694
it's not merciless for a lion to eat a lamb, it is nature

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>2017
>not being a cyborg powered by electricity produced from a hydroelectric dam

How can you claim to be for the environment if you haven't even taken this step?

>>37064704
>>37064724
that's not the point you retards. hurr we needed it to evolve so what we aren't evolving anymore. it's about sustainability and personal health, we aren't just some tribes living sparsely in the woods anymore, there's 7 billion humans most of whom don't even eat a lot of meat yet.

A female vegan friend of mine told me that vegan mean are more easily placated, less aggressive, and less "masculine" as a general rule. She likes this about them, and says they are "much easier placated" as a whole. That alone is more than enough to stop me from ever being vegan. Most of my diet is fruit and vegetables, anyway.

>>37064749
Damn right. People who hold stupid animals at the same regard as humans are mentally retarded.

>>37064784
>name one reason why humans should eat meat
>n-no, I don't like that reason so it doesn't count!

>>37064356
>vegans cant refute this

Naisu

>>37064775
>wasting hydroelectric energy on your system functions
You are actually worse than the environment-hating carnivores.

>>37064071
i agree with this and i just love to eat chicken.

>>37064753

Nature itself is merciless. Self preservation is merciless, hunger, sexuality and territoriality are merciless too.

>>37064672
being strong and eating healthy has nothing to do with being an ape man you plant like subhuman.

you need protein if you do any kind of real work. of course vegans know nothing of this, all they do is sit around and exist. like plants.

>>37064863
Nature is indifferent

Might makes right. I eat meat because I have that option and it doesn't damage my might in any way.

I care about people and animals that are a part of my immediate in-group, and I somewhat care about people who benefit my society if there's a sort of national camaradery that benefits everyone. Outside this criteria, death is only a good thing. Not in itself, that would be edgy-tier, but because pragmatically speaking surplus population being culled off is much better for the population than overnumbering their resources.

The only possible scenario in which I'd self-reflect or sacrifice anything is if some kind of worldwide eugenics program was adopted that would also impose limitations on everyone who has a worse effect on the world than myself.

But that's never going to happen, so fuck everyone else. The amount of people objectively worse than me is so great that there's nothing I can do in self-interest that would be bad for the world, other than attack people more intelligent and more productive than myself, and I'd never do that, because those people contribute to my well-being.

>>37064899
Then why do I get such a hard on for rape? Why do I enjoy pouring alcohol over live wasps?

>>37064889
But you can eat nuts for protein! Look! You need to consume 600 calories of cashews to get 30% of your daily protein requirements and 70% of your daily fat requirements, but it's so healthy!

In their defence, the modern age means you can chug down protein shakes and vitamins to fill in the gaps veganism would leave.

>>37064784
I try to find truth in every ideology, even one as ludicrous as veganism. I understand some health or environmental arguments that vegans make, but citing ethics is fucking autismal because ethics don't apply to semi-sentient creatures.

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>2017
>not uploading your mind to your pc
It's like you guys DON'T want to play anime games in first person.
Inferior flesh sacks.

>>37064929
childhood trauma probably

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>>37064286
>>37064326

There is nothing I could possibly say to make you want to change.

>>37064356
My opinion on nuclear energy is frankly irrelevant. I do not have any problems with it.

What you fail to grasp is even if they were killed humanely and somehow the dairy cows were raped humanely and the chickens were somehow genetically modified and injected with growth hormone humanely and the male chicks denied their life humanely, it would still all be unnecessary.

We do not need to consume animals, It is not healthy for us to do so.

>>37064381
Have you ever seen the mouth of a lion (Carnivore) or Bear (Omnivore), hell even chimps which are primarily plant eaters have gigantic canines that are far sharper and better suited to tearing and ripping off large chunks of flesh raw from an animal.

Do you ever even use your canines to rip meat, you can't, so we use knives and forks.

Our canines are rudimentary and blunt.

>>37064432
Do you care about your health or the future of humanity?

>>37064465
I am an entitled human and I think just because I like the taste of a juicy steak a cow should die.
I could gain far more nutritional benefits from eating alternative foods, but I really like the idea of heart disease and cancer.

>>37064472
I like you anon.
.

>>37064929
You should ask yourself that. You realize that it is possible to not derive enjoyment from sadistic acts?

>>37064927

I wish I had friends like you. Stay strong and survive.

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>>37064477
>>37064477
I'm going to link a few studies and papers about the link between cholesterol and atherosclerosis.

I'm sure you're smart enough to know that animal products are high in both cholesterol and saturated fat, these studies find strong relationships between these two and heart disease.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3603726/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15172426https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2125600/
http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/circulationaha/108/22/2757.full.pdf
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/313701
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16554528https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1312295/

As for the benefits of a vegan diet

http://www.eatrightpro.org/~/media/eatrightpro%20files/practice/position%20and%20practice%20papers/position%20papers/vegetarian-diet.ashx

If reading isn't your thing just look at the thousands of vegans who live long and healthy lives without touching meat or dairy

>>37064784
>we aren't evolving anymore

lmao what my dude, evolution doesn't just stop

>there's 7 billion humans

And out of those humans, the ones that've only produced each other are only entitled to eating each other. No problem.

Us who have farmed our own fields and raised our own factories can eat anything we produce, they are entitled to nothing. That is fair. Anything else is a disaster.

>>37064581
If you do not believe in ethics, you do not care about your health or the environment there is nothing I can say to you.

Please stop wasting my time.

>veganism is good for the enviroment
>tfw livestock production in your country has decreased
>it was replaced by soy because it's good money
>now soils are getting wrecked everywhere because of overproduction of soy
The "it's good for the enviroment" argument would work if the people in charge actually cared about the enviroment. But they only care about money, and if they have to destroy entire fields to get it, they will. Small, enviroment-friendly farms can't compete, and most people can't grow their own food because it takes time or because they live in cities. It sucks, but the enviroment is going to get progressively more fucked anyways

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>>37064962
>that are far sharper and better suited to tearing and ripping off large chunks of flesh raw from an animal.
Yeah, we have tools for that. Humans have specifically evolved as tool users. That's why Homo Sapiens Sapiens for example is a fuck lot weaker than Homo Neanderthalensis, because that strength isn't required, it just takes more calories to maintain health and isn't all that useful thanks to tools and weapons.
>Do you ever even use your canines to rip meat, you can't, so we use knives and forks.
That's bullshit. I regularly bite into and tear meat into pieces with my front teeth.

>>37065004
>If you do not believe in ethics, you do not care about your health or the environment
That's a complete non-sequitur. Just because objective morality doesn't exist, doesn't mean I don't have a very much subjective value system. What is right and what is wrong are utterly irrelevant to that.
You must be underage, to have such simplistic, juvenile thinking.

>>37064962
Humans bred the modern cow into existence. The purpose of a cow is literally to produce milk and meat for us to enjoy. What would you do with the cows? Release them into the wild where they don't belong? And alternative foods taste like ass. I'm not sorry to say that tempeh tastes like dry shit and tofu has no taste at all. Meat is delicious and there is nothing you can do to stop billions of people from enjoying it.

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>>37064094
If you have to eat meat to survive then it is ethically permissible,

If it is possible for you not to consume meat and animal products and you don't, you are a carnist and choose to be one.

I do not know your situation so I am not calling you out, although it do believe it is valuable for me to say I struggle for money and cannot always get by month to month by myself.

I still manage to remain vegan.

>>37064964

What are you even trying to say? Are you trying to be a goodie-two-shoes and save a poor poor insect from the big evil me? You go ahead and analyze your thought, you need that more than me.

>>37064953

My father has only beaten me once with a belt on the ass. He's a scientific genius and diverts massive amounts of money, attention and effort to make me half as smart as him. My mother is pretty cool and we play boardgames sometimes. She has a humanities doctorate though, I don't like them much so I don't learn much from her. So, what childhood trauma? Selfishness came as naturally to me as breathing.

>>37064931
Exactly. I can't sit around for 4 hours eating pounds of food. I want one piece of chicken, some broccoli or sweet potato, some cheese or yogurt, and a piece of fruit.

fuck eating 4 pounds of nuts and plants to barely meet the nutrition a teen age boy needs. I need 200g of protein a day. good luck getting that as a vegan.
>b-but soy powder!
yea enjoy that estrogen you wannabe tranny dipshit.

>>37065096
>He answers back

ohh boy, IQ does regress back to the mean

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>>37064596
>1) it is healthy

Heart disease, cancer and diabetes are healthy?

>2) it is nutritious

You can see for yourself that all forms of meat are easily trumped for nutritional content by plant based alternatives.

You can see for yourself by using "Cronometer".

>3) it is calorie dense

Well done anon you got me there, unfortunately calorie density is totally irrelevant when you consider the content of the foods.

If I ate 3k calories a day of junk I would get fat, develop heart disease and diabetes.

When i eat 3k calories a day of plants and grains I do not gain any weight and feel full or energy.

>4) it is delicious

This is not an argument this is an opinon.

>>37065082
That picture makes me want to hunt those animals for sport and not even use any of the materials of their bodies.

Might even salt the bodies and put some poison on it so no-one else can eat it and it takes longer to decompose.

>>37065096
>What are you even trying to say?
What I said. I don't think I can imagine a simpler way of saying it.
Why you enjoy something is something you should ask yourself.
It is possible not to be a sadist. Sadism is generally considered a mental illness.

>>37065169
>Heart disease, cancer and diabetes are healthy?
are you implying if you eat a moderate amount of meat you will no matter what get those diseases and if you eat only plants you never will get those?
>You can see for yourself that all forms of meat are easily trumped for nutritional content by plant based alternatives.
nope. unless you seriously think eating 2 pounds of broccoli for a meal is okay
>When i eat 3k calories a day of plants and grains I do nothing but sit around and eat plants all day due to the lack of any calories in anything I eat
ftfy

vegans are subhuman

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>>37065219
>Sadism is generally considered a mental illness.
No it's not, you retard.

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>>37064601
The thing is Goats, Sheep and Cows would be extremely useful for use in resting crop areas where farming is not taking place.

We do not even give meat to starving communities in the 3rd world, we give them a form of peanutbutter as it is most calorie and nutrient dense.

If we turned all the areas for livestock into farmland for plants we could feed all these mouths easily.

>>37065125
I love it when vegans recommend shitty alternatives that don't even come close to tasting like meat.
>>37065172
Fucking jej

>>37065229
In addition to sadism, you also display some emotional instability.

>>37065219

It is only suppressed by those who fear it. A victim should have no say in the decisions of the perpetrator. Modern society is filled to the brim with manipulative cowards. They are the "generality" you are talking about.

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>>37065252
Did you genuinely think sadism is a mental illness?

>>37065052
You are lying.
Legumes are nitrogen-fixing. Farmers grow soy crops intermittently to fix soil, not destroy it. Learn2wiki

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>>37064625
You've fallen for the muh protein meme

Humans really do not require large amounts of protein unless you are interested in extensive muscle growth.

Even if this were true vegan foods for protein are far more dense than meat anyway.

>>37065317
>Humans really do not require large amounts of protein unless you are interested in extensive muscle growth.
So if you don't want to be some weak, effeminate bitch, you should eat meat. Got it.

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>>37064753
We are not lions we consider right and wrong and have the choice to act.

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>>37064939
If a Human was at the same level of consciousness of a cow and it was considered healthy to eat, would it be okay to do so?

>>37065263
You can't really say who has a say. From my perspective, it is simply a sympton of a mind that isn't free of complexes. It is like people who hold grudges, and get jealous. I think these people should develop themselves.

>>37065317
I'll say what I said in my last posts that none of you faggots can come up with a response to:

Meat alternatives taste like A S S
No amount of seasoning can fix the rancid taste of soybeans mushed together to look like meat. When will you pigfuckers learn that your meat alternatives are kryptonite for taste buds

>>37065347

You're right, we aren't lions, we're lions on crack. Ours is the technology and limitless resource.

>>37065169
>Heart disease, cancer and diabetes are healthy?
Type II Diabetes is associated with a diet low in fat and high in carbs. That is the reverse of eating meat.
The association of highly processed meat (like SPAM) intake with cancer incidence is lower than being low in calcium or in exposure to the sun. Avoid SPAM? No cancer increase.
The Harvard meta-study demonstrated there is NO link between meat intake and increased heart disease risk. The separate Wellness study ALSO shows no correlation between meat intake and heart disease
>all forms of meat are easily trumped for nutritional content by plant based alternatives.
High-cost alternative that require unsustainable practices AND the consumption of MASSIVE volumes of food
>This is not an argument this is an opinon.
I didn't call it an argument, I called it a reason. Are you illiterate?

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>>37065376
Eating humans at their current level of consciousness is okay. Just watch the prions and hostile reactions from your surrounding humans.

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>>37065317
>Humans really do not require large amounts of protein unless you are interested in extensive muscle growth.
Which is why hipsters are vegans - they don't like those icky muscles

>>37065380

Mercy is only beneficial to the victim. All your psychological mumbo jumbo is just your way of trying to make me into a coward who won't care for himself, waste his life and possibly spare you in the future. You're doing the same thing as me, but through other means.

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>>37064704
You realise that Neurons can only use glucose as a fuel right?

You realise that Plant based foods and grains are the highest sources of glucose right?

Cooking Was More Important Than Meat for Brains

Cooking increases the net energy gained from food from 2 main routes. (1) It increases digestibility (the proportion of food that gets digested and absorbed). For instance cooking is estimated to increase the digestibility of starch in grains by around 30%. It also increases the digestibility of meat, by denaturing the protein. (2) It reduces the physiological costs of digesting our food - because cooking softens food, so it is easier to digest.

>>37065347
You're not choosing, you are made a slave to your compassion. Meat is the human diet, despite what the corn farmers tell you.

>>37065125
How does it feel to have the all the scientific grounding of a homeopathic quack or a paleofaggot?

You don't need 200g a day. Enjoy your broken kidneys at age 50, nigger.

Most research has found no benefit from intakes higher than 0.64g/lb, and no peer reviewed study has ever found a benefit from higher than 0.82g/lb (1.8g/kg) intakes. Of course you'll ignore this so you can continue to sperg out on /fit/.

26 sources listed here including 2 very recent studies. http://bayesianbodybuilding.com/the-myth-of-1glb-optimal-protein-intake-for-bodybuilders/

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I would burn the world to eat meat. I love eating meat, I love cooking meat, I love the smell of meat. I think we should treat animals humanely but I will never stop eating meat. Fuck the OP.

>>37065449
You are a slave to your infantile urges. What do you accomplish by torturing a fly? You simply feel good. You relieve yourself of the pain caused by your complex.
I have no such complex, and so gain nothing from the act of torturing a fly.

>>37065067
>Yeah, we have tools for that. Humans have specifically evolved as tool users. That's why Homo Sapiens Sapiens for example is a fuck lot weaker than Homo Neanderthalensis, because that strength isn't required, it just takes more calories to maintain health and isn't all that useful thanks to tools and weapons

You didn't really refute or challenge my claim more so than dance around the skirts of it.

>That's bullshit. I regularly bite into and tear meat into pieces with my front teeth.

You mean your incisors? right.

>If you do not believe in ethics, you do not care about your health or the environment

>That's a complete non-sequitur. Just because objective morality doesn't exist, doesn't mean I don't have a very much subjective value system.
What is right and what is wrong are utterly irrelevant to that.
You must be underage, to have such simplistic, juvenile thinkin

You completely took what I said out of context, I was simply saying that if you do not believe in ethics and you do not care about your health and you also do not care about the environment that I am unable to use any arguments to sway your opinion as you reject all my claims outright.

>>37065513

Do you want to say that your life is pointless? By repressing your urges you're basically castrating your brain. Not sure if this counts as research, but I do better at tests and natsci when there's competition around to prove myself to.

>>37065550
>You didn't really refute or challenge my claim more so than dance around the skirts of it.
Was your claim not that because humans do not have biological weapons similiar to other omnivores, that we are not omnivores? I refuted that claim by the simple truth that the Homo genus have been tool users for approximately 3.4 million years.
>You mean your incisors? right..
Incisors and canines both.
> was simply saying that if you do not believe in ethics and you do not care about your health and you also do not care about the environment that I am unable to use any arguments to sway your opinion as you reject all my claims outright.
Well yeah. Your "arguments" are appeals to emotion and to your personal subjective views on ethics.

>>37065596
I'm sure you do better at tests when your motivation is greater.
You should look up neuroplasticity. This 'supressing urges' is a relic of the 19th and 20th pseudo-scientific psychology.

>>37064962
>Do you ever even use your canines to rip meat, you can't, so we use knives and forks.

>take large bite
>pointy teeth help tear it up

Besides, nobody gives a shit about the cows dying but you. They're supposed to die, they have no other purpose

What's your opinion on going out and killing deer?

>>37065698
would be really cool
sadly i dont have any hunting friends

>You're evil for killing animals !
Animals that WE BREED to kill and eat. There is no way there would be that many cows/pigs/chickens on Earth if we didn't breed and protect them.

Most wouldn't even be born if we didn't eat them, so why give a fuck?

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>>37065227
>are you implying if you eat a moderate amount of meat you will no matter what get those diseases and if you eat only plants you never will get those?

>Hurr if you only smoke one cigarrete a month it's healthy for you

Learn the difference between something having an unnoticeable negative effect and something being healthy.

A Vegan diet has been shown to reverse heart disease and diabetes so yes I claim you are extremely unlikely to get these diseases if you only eat plant based and grains.

>nope. unless you seriously think eating 2 pounds of broccoli for a meal is okay

There is far more variation in vegan foods than just 2 pounds of broccoli you are just being flippant.

If it was such a pain to be vegan why do so many people advocate and enjoy the diet.

>When i eat 3k calories a day of plants and grains I do nothing but sit around and eat plants all day due to the lack of any calories in anything I eat
>ftfy


When I also am able to run 2 times a day, work and enjoy my own leisure time. You are again just being flippant I do not spend a large period of time eating food.

>>37065656

You're definitely right about Freud and Co. being pseudoscience, but they did spend their lives collecting data, even if it was empirical and imprecise.

I can tell you with certainty, my fantasies and acts feel way better to me than anything anyone else forces me to do.

tl;dr we're evil for eating cows even though a bear would kill it in a far more painful manner

>>37065317
no you truly do need it. and since I lift weights and work manual labor, I need 200g each and everyday.
if I was an feminine little boy like you, sure I could get by on like 70g a day.

>>37065486
I weight roughly 250. I go by .8 grams per pound of lean body mass.
200 may be much, but that's generally how things work out. I could lessen it but my lifts are strong, I don't feel sore, and my doctors can't find anything wrong with me so I think I'm good.

plus, I'd rather have to tone down my protein intake when I'm 50 and look good, then be some gross pasty yellow feminine little vegan bitch boy at age 50 who has good kidneys.

>>37065764
Stop the fucking excuses. We don't need justification. Might makes right. The animals will suffer as much as our advantages and technology will require them to.

>>37065754
Feeling good can describe many different states. As such it is very imprecise.

Because I don't care about animals, they're tasty, and if eaten right can be fairly healthy.

>>37063982
Technically, meat is what made us hunter gatherers, agricultural techniques is what allowed us to settle down and create civilizations.

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>mfw I got a batch of chicken tendies ready to go and have lamb for din din

sucks to be a vegan fag. it really does. enjoy your moral high ground as you eat literal garbage

>>37065812
i know we dont need justification. Fuck cows, and FUCK deer especially. If more people hunted them there'd probably be less car accidents around here

>>37065817

Well, what feels objectively best for the objectively longest time?

Know what's worse than a vegan or vegetarian? Someone who is forced to become a vegan or vegetarian.

My brother used to live pretty much off carbs. From pastas to pizza to junk food like doritos. Then he became a diabetic. So he went on a diet that was pretty much nothing but meat and veggies. Then he developed chronic gout, and his doctor said he is no longer allowed meat.

All he does now is eat salad and steamed vegatable, and he says he is miserable as fuck.

wellp op
was this thread worth it?
did you get someone to be vegan?
or do you feel good now for trying atleast?
cant wait to have this thread again tomorow

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I eat only veal. The younger and more tortured the baby cow, the better. Fuck all that vegan shit. Its even better when I get to kill the calf myself. Nothing better than eating a meal you raised yourself. You earned it. Glorious dead animal carcass.

>>37064490
Humans are superior. The weak should fear the strong

>>37065950
but that's not nice!
and being nice and virtue signaling is more important than living a healthy life!

i'd prefer to not take 20 vitamins every day

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>>37065622
>Was your claim not that because humans do not have biological weapons similiar to other omnivores, that we are not omnivores? I refuted that claim by the simple truth that the Homo genus have been tool users for approximately 3.4 million years.

Physiologically humans are not well adapted to eating meat, the only viable argument is the appendix which is of course easily refuted as it functions for plants as well as meat.

Atherosclerosis is a problem that only herbivorous animals can develop. Yet you wish to claim that we are not as such.

Why is Heart Disease the greatest killer in the western world if this isn't the case?

>Incisors and canines both.

You could not rip and tear large chunks of flesh from a live animal with your teeth.

>Well yeah. Your "arguments" are appeals to emotion and to your personal subjective views on ethics.

The Ethical argument is but one of 3 arguments I am making.

Of course the ethical one is the easiest to dispute but how many people who say they refute any kind of morality actually believe that way?
The Ethical angle is more so simply one of a double standard which is a logical argument.

>>37064672
Fucking a woman is far more important than sparing some animals life.

I'd really like to help people to change not just for ethical reasons, but for health and environmental reasons too.

health and environmental reasons are ethical reasons

>>37065661
The entitlement of the human race knows no bounds.

>>37065989
but bro popping 10 pills a day. drinking 3 cups of soy protein powder, and eating 7 bananas a day every day is totally healthy

doesn't my vibrant yellow skin show you how healthy I am? how about my non existent muscular system? or my glassy, dead looking eyes? us vegans are very healthy.

For every animal you don't eat, I'm eating three.

>>37065969
This guy gets it. Once my lazy ass passes the thursday exam I'm gonna sign up for some boxing. I'm so tired of being a weak ass piece of shit. I'm so fucking glad I fought that hobo and saw the light. Once I get every degree I need, the world is mine

>>37065899
Let me just deconstruct your statement for you.
Feel good = I prefer one 'extended sensation or overall state of mind' over atleast 1 other 'extended sensation or overall state of mind'
Since a being cannot be knowledgable of every possible 'extended sensation or overall state of mind' available to them or conceivably available to beings, it is impossible for this being to know what would be its favorite 'extended sensation or overall state of mind'.

>>37066016
Let me correct you, not fucking A woman, because there are shitty ones, but THE woman you want. That's more like it

>>37066034
more like
>for every animal you don't eat, one is killed anyway because they aren't killed when you think you want a burger, but instead just killed all the time to meet the constant world wide demand

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>>37066022
Myth and not true

Vegan diets are considered the healthiest.

The only supplement required is b12 which meat eaters are frequently deficient in also.

>pic related

Vegan bodybuilder

>>37066039
But then there's stuff on this planet you can do. No need to renounce your nature and shit in your life just because you can't get the highest pleasure in the universe

>>37066071
Mean demmand eventually falls as more people become vegan.

Meat not being sold is money not being made by the industry so they have to make cuts.

>>37064490
>rape

elaborate

???????? lol?

>>37066079
>Vegan bodybuilder on roids
ftfy
and for being on roids, he looks like deflated shit. fuck, maybe that's a pic of him when he's off cycle.

bet his lifts are shit too.

>>37064962
But there are tribes out there that actually eat raw meat though

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>>37064672
>caring about some farm animal you've never seen alive is more important than women

woah, so this is the power of veganism

>>37065909
maybe once diabetes takes his feet he can go back to gout agitating foods

>>37066117
Dairy cows are raped to produce a calf for the veal industry which is then ripped from her at birth, this process causes her to produce milk.

>>37066107
>as more people become vegan.
pfffhahaha yea that'll happen. we'll move onto cheap protein sources like bugs long before the general public becomes vegan
enjoy "saving" all those cows by spending you entire life trying to get people to become unhealthy lunatics such as yourself.

>>37064974
did you know that if you arent a sedentary fag then cholesterol and saturated fat literally arent bad for you at all

>>37066020
We didn't get to be the dominant species by eating soy and crying whenever an animal died. Nobody cares

>>37064962
>What you fail to grasp is even if they were killed humanely and somehow the dairy cows were raped humanely and the chickens were somehow genetically modified and injected with growth hormone humanely and the male chicks denied their life humanely,

They dont feel a thing

>it would still all be unnecessary.

Nah because we get more meat

>>37066079

Bodybuilding is not that good. What I've heard is that a guy needs to be stronger, last longer, never die, never fear and put himself over all.

>>37065169
>Heart disease, cancer and diabetes are healthy?
meat doesnt really cause this

eating by itself is carcinogenics but you dont see people stopping that, do you?

>>37066119
He is pretty much confirmed natty and compared to all the roid users in the body building and power lifting game he probably doesn't seem to lift as much.

>>37066098
Nature is often used to describe the basest impulses in people. I think nature can be greater than that. We all have conflicting inclinations, I simply choose those that lead me to understanding, rather than those that dull my awareness.

>>37065317
thats inferior protein, lacking important amino acids

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>>37066141
>Still thinks he has a chance with stacey


Beta roastie orbiter detected

You aren't a real robot unless you are a vegan

>>37066174
>He is pretty much confirmed natty
so confirmed for fraud then? it's the bodybuilding world you dummy, ain't no such thing as "not on roids" when they are in any way well known.
and I just looked up his lifts. they're a fucking joke. high school kids lift more.

guess that's the power of veganism. being a weak teenage boy for life.

>>37063792

Why haven't I done anything good for my life? I can't be fucked !

>>37066145
Fucking whors probably deserved it

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>>37066146
>unhealthy

The benefit of your meat diet is you will die much younger so you wont be around soon to spout your unintelligible bullshit.

Some vegans are not opposed to the eating of bugs, muscles and oysters as there is a degree to them being autonomous stimuli reactors.

It's funny that veganism is a growing movement so you couldn't be more wrong

>>37066079

I guess this man's never heard of carb loading. I'm digging the striations but he'd be so much fuller if he would just eat right. A few pieces of bacon and some donuts would do him good. Glycogen is a thing.

>>37066145
boo fuckin hoo cry me a river

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>>37066152
Did you actually read any of those studies

>but muh psuedoscience

>>37066158
>i'm an apex predator I'm specialised for killing I'm entitled to eat whatever I want.

You sound like a 16 year old girl there buddy, stick to your primal urges and instincts and you can join the rest of us in the developed world when you're ready.

>>37066254
the benefit of my diet is not being an unhealthy sickly looking feminine little boy.
>Some vegans are not opposed to the eating of bugs, muscles and oysters as there is a degree to them being autonomous stimuli reactors.
lmao. "this living thing ain't alive because fuck it just let me eat something god damn it." vegans are a joke.
> veganism is a growing movement
so is cuckolding. doesn't mean it's a good thing nor will it last long.
only reason why vegans exist now is that meat eating men built a safe and comfy world for them to be feminine and worthless in. when the tough times come, you will be the first to go.

Don't you idiots realize houses are oppressive. Stop living in houses.

You just know these fags are going to be the first people to claim our robot waifus are in humane

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>>37066001
>Physiologically humans are not well adapted to eating meat
Yes we are.
>the only viable argument is the appendix
No, it's not.
How about the fact that we can eat meat and receive plentiful nutrition from it? The digestive enzymes in our bodies?
How about the hydrochloric acid in our stomachs?
Human are well capable of eating both meat and plant matter, which is expectable, as we are an omnivorous species.
>Atherosclerosis is a problem that only herbivorous animals can develop
Objectively incorrect. Herbivores simply develop it far easier and faster, since their bodies are not suited for high-fat, high-cholesterol diets. Or are you telling me dogs are herbivores as well?
http://www.vetbook.org/wiki/dog/index.php?title=Atherosclerosis
>Why is Heart Disease the greatest killer in the western world if this isn't the case?
Because people move FAR too little and eat way too unhealthily. Most modern humans live sedentary lives, which our bodies are not evolved for. We are hunter-gatherers in our natural enviroments, which requires ample excercise and does not offer such high-fat, high-calorie diets as modern food does.
>You could not rip and tear large chunks of flesh from a live animal with your teeth.
Yeah, which is not at all necessary, since we are tool users. A human can however tear off suitably sized chunks of raw flesh off a dead animal, or piece of meat. If that doesn't work, he can use TOOLS to cut off pieces and then chew them. No issues eating meat, whatsoever.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0sWGpfcQnHk

>The Ethical argument is but one of 3 arguments I am making.
Yeah, one is health, which is irrelevant so long as you exercise and eat healthy, which requires less effort than a vegan diet.
The other is the blatant lie that humans are not suited for eating meat.

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>>37066159
>animals do not have a neural pathways, they do not experience pain

You heard it here first boys

>Eating meat makes killing animals necessary

Nice argument bro I can tell you really thought this one through.

>>37066290
>Did you actually read any of those studies
It doesnt change the fact of what i said

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>>37066197
>he cares more for the well being of a mud covered pig on a farm miles away so he can argue on a anime forum rather than trying to gain strength

really activates my almonds

>>37064694
this is true

/pol/, commies, vegans

all the moralfags that should have stuck to leddit

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>>37066172
Cancer is caused within the body so evidently it can happen irregardless of your environment.

However it is shown with mountains of scientific research that animal products are high in saturated fat and cholesterol.

It is also shown with mountains of scientific research that saturated fat and cholesterol are the ONLY risk factor in heart disease.

but

>meat doesn't really cause this

Glad you did your research anon.

>>37064125
>This is not true, I'd challenge you to name on physiological adaptation humans have made for eating meat.

Lol what do you think humans in the wild ate dumbass? Nuts and berries and plants? Kek

>>37066380
humans can subsist entirely on raw meat
a balanced diet is a lie propagated by industrial vegetable farmers

>>37066377
>However it is shown with mountains of scientific research that animal products are high in saturated fat and cholesterol.

or you can ride a bike a little bit and eat as much saturated fat and cholesterol as you want :)

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>>37066377
>irregardless

>meat doesn't really cause this
It doesn't, on its own. If you eat too many carrots you'll die. Likewise, you'll get water poisoning from chugging four gallons of otherwise healthy, and necessary water

Why must we have this same shill thread every day. Veganfags can eat their autismal diet thanks to being privileged enough to be born when picky eating is a viable lifestyle. Meatfags can eat normally. Thanks to advances in medicine the health risks of each diet is better known and can be mitigated to a large degree.Every study I've read on meat vs no meat diets basically say in the discussion part that it's flawed because they didn't control for health consciousness behavior and lifestyle, so already we have huge bias in the no meats favor. In reality there is little difference between the two provided they actively exercise and have no nutritional deficits or preexisting conditions. I wonder why the studies aren't designed with this in mind.

>>37066261
Sure you wouldn't mind if I raped your mom.

As she probably has the same mental state as a dairy cow, judging by your intelligence.

>>37066436
thats a cow raping a cow, not any person

retard :)

>>37066436
>humans are cows :^)

whoever got into your ear should be hanged

Meat tastes good.

Gas the vegans, 14/88

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>>37063792
I love vegetables, but I love meat as well. Instead of taking supplements to make up the lack of nutrition that cutting meat out of my diet would cause, I'd rather just eat organic, unprocessed meat in moderation.

I have no issue cutting out particular meats that I don't like or don't find beneficial enough. However, since humans are omnivores, I see no reason cut either vegetables or meat out of my diet completely.

I only care about achieving the best results for myself using the least amount of effort, so I don't care about the "ethics".

Why are we ethically obligated not to kill animals?
In human society, if a person does not respect the rights of another person (by committing crime), that person is stripped of their own rights, particularly to freedom but sometimes even their own life.
So if an animal by definition cannot respect the rights of humans, why should we extend rights to it?

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>>37066315
Objectively incorrect. Herbivores simply develop it far easier and faster, since their bodies are not suited for high-fat, high-cholesterol diets. Or are you telling me dogs are herbivores as well?
http://www.vetbook.org/wiki/dog/index.php?title=Atherosclerosis

Here is the start of this article

Atherosclerosis (hardening of the arteries) is a cardiovascular and fibroproliferative inflammatory disease commonly associated with age- and dietary-related factors in humans, but is relatively rare in dogs.

A breed predisposition has been reported in the Miniature Schnauzer[3], Doberman Pinscher, Labrador Retriever and Portuguese Water Dog[4].

So you agree that Herbivores develop it far easier and as we develop it extremely easily we are herbivores.

>Because people move FAR too little and eat way too unhealthily. Most modern humans live sedentary lives, which our bodies are not evolved for. We are hunter-gatherers in our natural enviroments, which requires ample excercise and does not offer such high-fat, high-calorie diets as modern food does.

Cholesterol and Saturated fat are shown to be the ONLY risk factor in Heart Disease, exercise does very little to reduce cholesterol levels.

You cannot gain cholesterol and saturated fat if you do not eat it, ergo if you are a vegan you cannot develop atherosclerosis.

>Yeah, one is health, which is irrelevant so long as you exercise and eat healthy, which requires less effort than a vegan diet.
The other is the blatant lie that humans are not suited for eating meat.

So it's completely fine to needlessly kill and eat meat because you can eat little enough of it that it becomes healthy to do so?

>>37066554
>why should we extend rights to it?
Because we choose to. Ethics doesn't come into it.

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>>37066377
>cook and eat meat frequently with lots of veggies and carbs on my plate

>drink lots of water and exercise

>don't get cardiovascular disease or cancer

huh, crazy right?

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>>37066326
It would if you read them friend

>>37063792

Because meat tastes good and the consequences don't concern me in the slightest

>>37063792
The only real argument for veganism is resource conservation and efficiency of land use. The health benefits could also be an argument but they're not as irrefutable as the former arguments. Unfortunately, these solid arguments drowned out by muh animal feels, underming any chance at legitimacy to the public the vegan movement has.

>>37066572
YOU choose to, not we choose to.

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>>37066578
mfw you'll still have a much greater risk of heart disease and cancer, just because you like the taste of a needlessly slaughtered animal.

>b-but meat is good for you r-right?

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>>37066509
By claiming it's not okay to rape a human of same intelligence but it's okay to rape a cow is a double standard and logically inconsistent.

>>37066627

No one cares you worthless weeb faggot. Do you have to shit up literally every thread?

>>37066533
If you care about your health you will come to realise that their is no benefit to consuming animal products that does not come with a large unhealthy side effect.

It is very easy to eat a balanced and healthy vegan diet with no more cost.

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>>37066627
>much greater

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>>37066566
>So you agree that Herbivores develop it far easier and as we develop it extremely easily we are herbivores.
No, that's a complete non-sequitur and ridiculously moving the goalposts. You claimed ONLY herbivores can develop atherosclerosis and I proved you wrong. Nevermind the fact that it's not EASY for humans to develop it. It takes decades of eating poorly and not exercising, or really fucking shit genetics.
>Cholesterol and Saturated fat are shown to be the ONLY risk factor in Heart Disease, exercise does very little to reduce cholesterol levels.
Excercise increases the amount of HDL cholesterol and helps you lose weight. Weight loss in general lowers the amount of cholesterol in your blood and excess weight increases it.
>Exercise has been shown to have positive impacts on the pathogenesis, symptomatology and physical fitness of individuals with dyslipidaemia, and to reduce cholesterol levels.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3906547/

http://www.webmd.com/cholesterol-management/features/exercise-to-lower-cholesterol

>You cannot gain cholesterol and saturated fat if you do not eat it, ergo if you are a vegan you cannot develop atherosclerosis.
You can't get in a car accident if you never go outside. I'd still rather not sit cooped up in a bunker for the rest of my life. If you eat healthy, don't smoke and in general try to live a well-balanced, active life with excercise, you will most likely not develop atherosclerosis. That's it.
>So it's completely fine to needlessly kill and eat meat because you can eat little enough of it that it becomes healthy to do so?
It's completely fine to kill and eat meat. Period.

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>>37066682
>hurr ad hominem because i cannot refute content

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>>37066666
checked

weebs eternally BTFO

>>37066612
"We" as in society. There's laws against the mistreatment of animals in quite a few countries, including the one I'm in.

>>37066700
>ad hominem
No it's not.

>>37066650
people are not cows, to say they are is incorrect. I don't know why you feel like you have just sprung a trap. We have a social contract with in group humans, say one's mother, cows are outside of that protection.

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>>37066666
Wasted quints on this drivel

>Implying it's one person

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What is the point of this thread? It's not going to change anybody's mind, nobody is going to learn anything or listen to anybody.

Even if we did listen and understand each others viewpoints it's going to change nothing. It's such a pointless topic.

>>37066713
You can't really rely on the collective "we" because the collective "we" has absolutely 0 problem with me eating a steak right now.

>>37065237
we dont give third worlders meat, you dipshit, because they don't have the ability to store the fucking food. Peanut butter is so disgusting not even bacteria want it

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>>37066700
>greentexting smug anime poster is getting mad when others point out his shitty arguments

woah

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>>37066742
I never said eating a steak is considered as mistreatment of animals. "We" as in society doesn't give a fuck about this vegan drivel. They're on the same level as half-insane street preachers, telling everyone they're going to hell for their sins.

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>>37066697
>So you agree that Herbivores develop it far easier and as we develop it extremely easily we are herbivores.
>No, that's a complete non-sequitur and ridiculously moving the goalposts. You claimed ONLY herbivores can develop atherosclerosis and I proved you wrong. Nevermind the fact that it's not EASY for humans to develop it. It takes decades of eating poorly and not exercising, or really fucking shit genetics.

I was misinformed and I thank you for showing me different, however you went on to claim

>Herbivores simply develop it far easier and faster

If it is not relatively easy for humans to develop why is it that it is the biggest killer of the western world?

I'll take your claims that it is over consumption and a sedentary lifestyle.

You cite a study that shows that exercise as a solution to high levels of cholesterol, but you fail to grasp that there would not even be an issue of cholesterol if all diets were vegan.

You absolutely must admit that meat is inherently unhealthy.

You also refuse to discuss the ethical argument. I assume your claim is that ethics is a human construct and does not exist nor holds any meaning.

You can see though that meat consumption is unnecessary right?

I can tell you are smart enough to know this.

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>>37066145
>artificial insemination
>rape
wew lad

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>>37066765
>greentexting smug anime poster is getting mad when others point out his shitty arguments

>mfw relaying of a grammatical error is now an argument.

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>>37066870
>implying the cow desires to be forcefed spunk and have its child ripped from it at birth

>>37066875
I think he was disputing your claim that the risk is much greater. Much greater is perfectly fine grammatically, I would say.

>>37063792
I don't care enough about the possible health benefits of veganism to stop for health reasons, and I don't care enough about the welfare of literal subhumans to stop for ethical reasons.

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>>37066875
>>mfw relaying of a grammatical error is now an argument.

>mfw he's implying things to fuel his retarded posts

a dumb anime poster. not very surprising

>>37066908
There are literally no health benefits. These walking retards are going to get to 40 see a doctor and be told they have a shitty as fuck immune system.

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>>37066854
>If it is not relatively easy for humans to develop why is it that it is the biggest killer of the western world?
If you think the end-result of a life's worth of eating poorly and not exercising is "easy", then sure, it's easy.
>but you fail to grasp that there would not even be an issue of cholesterol if all diets were vegan.
No, I don't fail to grasp it. I simply don't care one bit about the people, who through their own lack of exercise and poor diets cause themselves heart disease. It's their fault entirely.
>You can see though that meat consumption is unnecessary right?
As are humans, the universe and existence itself. What necessity is there for anything? Do you claim your computer is necessary? This site? Do you know what damage the electricity production required to run your phone or computer and this site cause to the atmosphere and its ecosystems? What about the rare metals and plastic in the machine itself? Do you know how many animals die each year because of oil drilling and mining? How many people?

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>>37066890
>What is a free range farm?
>What is basic agriculture?
>believing that it is even remotely viable to remove a calf at birth if you want a well grown cow

>>37066677
The downsides that come from consuming meat come from how it's cultivated, processed, and it's cooked, as well as what parts you get.

In the same way that I won't buy vegetables covered in pesticides and chock full of preservatives, before charring them on the grill to seal in the carcinogens; I also ensure to take the same level of caution with the meat I buy.

As with many things in life, meat can be healthy if done correctly.

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>>37067068
>implying they want a full grown cow

The calfs taken from the dairy industry go straight into veal.

What's the deal with fish, I always considered them meat but lately people tell me it's not considered meat. I always assumed it was healthy, as long as you aren't eating the mercury-ridden ones too frequently.

>>37064354
Oy vey goym they gassed muh pigs remember the six gorrilion. Needless to say meat is not only necessary but tasty so unless you guys make some food that gives the same benefits has the same maybe i'll go vegan

>>37064486
Because it represents peak natural fitness in regards to what food we adapted to eating.

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>>37065864
This honestly. I don't even think it's just human perception that cows' main purpose is to be cattle. What do they do? They just eat grass and reproduce. Cows don't build anything like beavers, muskrats, birds, or ants; cows don't look cool like sea creatures or raptors or whatever; cows are too stupid and large to fit into our lives as pets or service animals; cows can't be used to move things as efficiently as horses, donkeys, and mules.

Cows are best as food. So are chickens. So are pigs, although at least pigs can make good pets.

Fuck it man, humans are making the world their own and cows don't fit into it as anything other than food. Fuck cows. If we weren't eating them, drinking their milk for calcium, and using their hides as a durable and attractive crafting material, they would just be a giant unsustainable nuisance, so fuck 'em.

>>37063982
It's escaping the search for meat that made us civilized

Militant vegans are the most obnoxious fucking people

Yes I believe we as a society should reduce our consumption of meat for health and environmental reasons, but I can't change the business practices of big agriculture. What would we do with the hundreds of millions of domesticated cows and chickens if we suddenly stopped eating them anyway? The cost of managing their populations would be tremendous, and it's not like they're part of the native wilderness anyway.

Personally I only eat red meat sparingly, and poultry and fish during one meal 5 days a week. I limit how much processed food and refined sugar I consume.

In an ideal world we would all produce our own food either individually or in our immediate communities, but this isn't an ideal world. In the meantime I'll enjoy industrially sourced meat until I have the means to buy locally and sustainably, or hunt it myself.

Is it immoral for the lion the hunt?

>>37067793
No, domesticating animals is what made us civilized. So our civilization is truly based on the rape and enslavement of animals.

>>37066890
>Implying cows don't want to be mothers
Stop applying human problems onto cows.

>don't do thing I don't like
I don't like you breathing, so stop doing it.

>>37064486
Because an animal would not evolve to eat a diet it would die from.

>>37068134
No because it's an animal it doesn't know any better

>>37063792
Naturaly grown, unprocessed meat is healthy and essental to life so what's with that picture?
do you honestly think that mcdonald's beef is the same as said healthy unprocessed meat?

>>37068544
it's an obligate carnivore, if it knew better it would still hunt

>>37064125
Canines you tard. Why would humans have canines if not to rip flesh apart? We would have cow teeth if we didn't evolve to eat meat.

>>37068840
>He thinks itty bitty pointed teeth are comparable to the canines found in carnivores
Kek

>>37069047
>he thinks having thin enamel on our itty bitty teeth means we're meant to chew through vegetable roots our entire lives

eat some raw flesh, you'll discover you have everything you need

>>37063792
I'm not a vegan because I eat meat and use other animal products. Vegans don't do those things, therefore I am not vegan.

As human beings we are the apex predator on planet earth, if we want to eat it, we eat it. Meat is delicious, my diet is balanced, all is well for me. Animals have lots of other useful components that we can use too. We've been doing so for thousands of years. No reason to be stopping now.

Humans > Other Animals

>>37069217
Or I could not and I'll still get everything I need without enormous amounts of fat, cholesterol, carcinogens and the risk of developing CHD, CVD, cancer, atherosclerosis, etc etc

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>>37069047
How does this make you feel?

organ

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H[apksfkafva[[asfvasfv

>>37069357
>it's the edgy carnie trying to trigger me the same way every other edgelord has tried to do before
top meme very upset

>why the majority of humanity believe it is acceptable to consume meat.
Because it is.
Any argument to the contrary is holier-than-thou retardation.

>>37069315
Do you need a house? Do you need a car? Couls you please stop using those things, they're bad for the environment and kill animals. You're basically stealing land from animals and its not humane. There is no reason you need a house or car or computer.

>>37069402
>medical fact is holier-than-thou retardation
;)

>>37069437
>it's another "carnie misunderstands the meaning of veganism and looks retarded" episode

>>37069397
Nope, just proof that humans can easily eat meat raw with their teeth because we have in fact evolved to do so.

When will you stupid meatlets ever learn?

>>37069463
When was the last time you slaughtered an animal and ate the meat raw, anon?

>>37069315
wow its almost as if having a balanced diet and exercising like a normal person can offset those effects you retard.

>>37069457
The meaning of veganism is to be ethical to animals. Then how can you be ethical to animals while stealing their property.

Give me one good reason we as an advanced society should spread our houses to every environment in the world instead of living in giant mega cities?
You can't. Society itself is evil. Stop stealing land from animals you shitlord.
>medical fact
Wrong.

>>37069503
Except it can't. Sedentary vegans have better arterial health than omnivorous marathon runners.

>>37069457
>
except all of the studies that you sourced only showed a small increase of these medical risks between omnivores and vegans. Eating a balanced diet and exercising can once again offset these risks. Don't tell me you just sit on your ass all day?

>>37069477
3 weeks ago, I went fishing and ate some raw.
When is the last time you have taken a sip of unfiltered water in Mexico? Does that mean its not perfectly natural for humans to drink water at all?

>>37069542
How about cardiovascular health? Your heart? Physical endurance and strength? All studies show that vegan athletes score way below their omnivore counterparts.

>>37069542
Are you fucking joking? This is the most retarded thing I've read.

>>37069523
>Society itself is evil

Self serving, sure. Evil, fuck right off. Any animal in the wild would kill and eat you if it could, some would do so if they found you dead. Every species is self serving as fuck and only those of their own blood are important. Humans are no different, we're just better at it.

>>37069477
You didn't disprove that anon's argument that humans can eat raw meat.

>>37063792
Animals are not human. We are apex predators and the cycle of nature dictates that we are supreme. Put it this way: I would not be surprised if a superior species enslaved us; that is simply what nature intended.

>>37069397
if you are discussing eating meat, then showing a culture that exclusively eats meat is relevant. If you think it's an attempt to trigger you don't engage in the discussion

>>37069542
Do you have a study backing that up?

>>37069545
I haven't linked anything. That's someone else.

>>37069562
>I went fishing and ate some raw
lmao

>When is the last time you have taken a sip of unfiltered water in Mexico? Does that mean its not perfectly natural for humans to drink water at all?
Not sure what you think your argument is here. I'm assuming you're implying that Mexican water is polluted. In which case how is that related to eating non-polluted meat? This is a shit analogy.

>>37069580
Oh, well then I'm sure you'll be happy to link those studies.

>>37069594
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17518696

Sorry to upset you. It's true.

>>37069606
Can doesn't mean it's suitable or optimal. I can feed my cat plants and it will survive on it. Doesn't mean it's suitable or optimal.

>>37069636
Okay edgefriend

>>37069640
Yes. See above.

>>37069604
I was stepping into the mind a vegan. sprawling houses across the country are not a necessity, they are a luxury. However, this destroys environments. So according to the ethics of vegans building houses is wrong because if our enjoyment hurts other creatures we shouldn't do it according to them.

>>37063792
veganism is retarded, humans > animals

but personally I just don't like much meat, it gets annoying when people ask if I'm a vegetarian

also red meat is bad for you

>>37069673
>he's still acting retarded because he doesn't understand what veganism is

>>37069710
you're ignoring the health argument. there are two arguments for veganism, often people subscribe to both when vegan: the health argument and the ethical argument

>>37069671
>C-reactive protein, blood pressure (BP), and carotid artery intima-media thickness were lower in the low-calorie low-protein vegan diet and runner groups than in the Western diet group (all p < 0.05)

Sounds like they're saying it's the same. Fuck off retard.

>>37069671
>Not sure what you think your argument is here. I'm assuming you're implying that Mexican water is polluted. In which case how is that related to eating non-polluted meat? This is a shit analogy.
No dumb fucking tard.
The water in mexico is not polluted. The water in the Unites states is just filtered and clean. It is so clean that our bodies haven't developed an immunity to any natural contamination in water. This is why you bring water filters with you when you go camping, because drinking water straight from the stream will often get you sick unless its fresh.

How does this relate to meat? Well if I eat raw meat I will get sick because my body is not accustomed to it. Just like you would get sick if you drank water from Mexico. Does this mean that its not natural for humans to drink water? Not at all.
We cook our meat because we are civilized. We filter our water because we are civilized. This does not mean it is not natural to eat raw meat or drink water.

>>37069736
>Sounds like they're saying it's the same. Fuck off retard.
Sedentary vegan carotid artery thickness: 0.56mm
Marathon runners running 48 miles per week over 21 years: 0.63mm
Sedentary western dieters: 0.74mm

Hmmm, yes. This is the exact same. My mistake.

>>37069799
>The water in the Unites states is just filtered and clean. It is so clean that our bodies haven't developed an immunity to any natural contamination in water.
lmfao okay mate

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>the types of fat and the amount of cholesterol in the foods we eat affects our risk for heart disease

Holy shit, read a book you idiots.

At least the moral argument for veganism can potentially hold water.

>>37069671
>Can doesn't mean it's suitable or optimal. I can feed my cat plants and it will survive on it. Doesn't mean it's suitable or optimal.
Just like how a vegan diet isn't suitable for anyone who doesn't live a sedentary lifestyle?
>Oh, well then I'm sure you'll be happy to link those studies.
http://www.sportsci.org/jour/0201/cf-e.htm
Here you are, and also any competent person can simply look at how all of the highest scoring athletes in the olympics, all of them eat a balanced diet and that the vegan athletes score ridiculously low.

>>37065462
You do realize your body produces glucose from protein, right?

It doesn't have to, but it does all the time.

I don't because I like consuming meat and dairy for my main protein source, eventhough 80% of my diet is veggies. Despite that, my health is way better than most vegans because I actually take care of myself through fitness and proper nutrition. Your health reason is null and void. Ethics are extremely subjective and are based upon the beliefs and values of the person. Mine do not align with yours. Your ethics argument is shit.

>>37069832
>Holy shit, read a book you idiots.
I'd rather read a study

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15172426

>>37069849
>Just like how a vegan diet isn't suitable for anyone who doesn't live a sedentary lifestyle?
Citation required

Skimmed the article but noticed it claims meat raises testosterone, which it doesn't.

>Here you are, and also any competent person can simply look at how all of the highest scoring athletes in the olympics, all of them eat a balanced diet and that the vegan athletes score ridiculously low.
Correlation isn't causation. Vegans are a small part of the population so it's not unreasonable to see them not represented or under-represented in tiny population groups.

Clarence0 on youtube is vegan and is extremely strong. Patrik Baboumian was a competition winning vegan strongman. They exist but as I said, low population leading to underepresentation

>>37063792
I'll tell you why I'm not a vegan if you give me peer reviewed studies that show that eating any meat whatsoever is unhealthy.

>>37066020
It's not entitlement unless you expect others to enforce it. If you maintain it yourself, it's just your reward for your work.

>>37069956
Look in the thread then you spastic

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>>37063854
If you're constantly shaming people who eat meat and present yourself as morally superior you are forcing your way of life

>>37069734
Vegans are often skinny and emaciated because they don't fill the nutritional requirements. The only way you can get around it is by buying more expensive food--and anyone that tells you that vegetables have more protein than eggs or meat is lying.

>but muh animal cruelty
Proper slaughtering procedures ensure minimal suffering to the animal, much less for animal byproducts (like eggs). If that really was your argument you wouldn't have a problem eating meat from an animal that just died of natural causes.

>>37069947
>Correlation isn't causation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvmhHXfJzFg

>>37069990
>expecting me to read

>>37069947
>Skimmed the article but noticed it claims meat raises testosterone, which it doesn't.
Proof?
>Clarence0 on youtube is vegan and is extremely strong. Patrik Baboumian was a competition winning vegan strongman. They exist but as I said, low population leading to underepresentation
And now you just point out the outliers? Show me proof that the average vegan is, not can, IS as physically fit as an average omnivore.
Also its rather sad that the only thing you pulled away from that article was the testosterone boosts, and none of the other HIGHLIGHTED talking points.

>>37063854
>he doesn't know
As someone who's worked on a farm before I'll let you in on something, growing crops kills just as many animals as breeding and killing animals does. Farmland takes up habitable space and when they send the harvesters in they tear all of the animals in the farmland to shreds.

>>37070002
>spanking breaks the non aggression principle

god damn it this faggot and the libertarians that support him

>>37069999
>Vegans are often skinny and emaciated because they don't fill the nutritional requirements.
Citation required

>The only way you can get around it is by buying more expensive food
This too

>and anyone that tells you that vegetables have more protein than eggs or meat is lying.
Nobody said this. Are you one of these retards who thinks you need 200g of protein daily or you'll go catabolic?

>Proper slaughtering procedures ensure minimal suffering to the animal
Or you could just, you know, not slaughter it and get the same nutrients and minerals elsewhere without the negative shit like cholesterol, carcinogens, high saturated fats etc

>>37070018
>Wants studies
>Won't read
Genius right here

>>37070027
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2374537/pdf/83-6691152a.pdf
Shows that vegans actually have higher testosterone and higher SHBG also

>And now you just point out the outliers?
Pointing out that it can be done, contrary to your claims. Most vegans aren't interested in being olympians or powerlifters

>Show me proof that the average vegan is, not can, IS as physically fit as an average omnivore.
Define fitness then

>and none of the other HIGHLIGHTED talking points.
There is literally nothing highlighted. It stupidly talks about protein sources like it actually matters and seems to conclude that WELL IT MUST BE THE TESTOSTERONE. If it had another point in there feel free to point it out.

>>37070067
>Forgetting that the animals used for slaughter need more farmland to be fed than humans do
>Forgetting that if we ended animal husbandry we'd be able to feed the world a plant based diet tomorrow

>>37069825
Lmao okay m8 isn't an argument.

This is a well known fact. If you go to a poor country only drink bottled water. Never drink tap.

>>37070250
>still talking about water in a thread about veganism
You're definitely winning your one-man debate though. Good job anon

I don't give a fuck about animals on the whole. Neither does the rest of the human race. I don't see the point in fighting a losing battle.

I am not wholely convinced its healthy either, you need to take supplements for it to work, thats a fact. Even if it is healthier I still don't care. My diet is good and I'll probably die of lung cancer before I get heart disease anyway.

>>37070120
Everything you've said is a lie

>>37063792
It tastes nice and is quite a decent way to get what your body needs.

Frankly if it were possible to eat decent lab made meat i'd go for that.

>>37070278
>I am not wholely convinced its healthy either, you need to take supplements for it to work, thats a fact
So do you. You just don't realise it. The animals you eat are supplemented with B12 because they can't get it either. You ingest this B12 when you eat them. You're being indirectly supplemented. B12 comes from bacteria which we find hard to get due to modern agriculture and water filtering.

>>37070283
>Science is a lie
It's okay buddy. You tried.

>>37070120
>m-muh ethics
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2016/09/25/veganism.aspx
http://www.ourhenhouse.org/2013/02/the-ethical-arguments-against-ethical-veganism/
>Shows that vegans actually have higher testosterone and higher SHBG also
>Pointing out that it can be done, contrary to your claims. Most vegans aren't interested in being olympians or powerlifters
So vegans can be stronger, but choose to be weaker? Yeah fucking right buddy lmfao. Most vegans aren't interested in becoming olympians or powerlifters because they would neet to constantly be eating plates full of greens to get the same amount of protein in a steak.
>Define fitness then
Fitness: How well the body can carry out all functions specific to the individual at hand. Meaning that fitness between a track athlete, Quarterback, and sedentary man would all have different baselines.
By the way you're study would make a lot more sense if they said what type of men they tested. Did they all have similar lifestyles? How were they picked?

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>>37063792
To be fair, I totally agree that vegetarians are totally right and they absolutely hold the moral high-ground (veganism is debatable though).

Only reason I'm not a vegetarian is that I'm weak willed.

>>37070276
its called a comparison you fucking moron, this anon is comparing how you said that humans weren't made to eat raw meat to how humans weren't made to drink unfiltered water. We need both to live well, but both of them require cleaning, but of course you know exactly the point this anon is trying to make, you just can't think of any good arguments.

>>37069947
>https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15172426
>abstract does not pertain to my point, nor does it refute it

You suck at this.

>>37070307
Pretty much nothing you said was scientific fact. Especially the last bit.
You are the retard claiming you can drink tap water from third world countries and not pick up diseases

>>37070350
>So vegans can be stronger, but choose to be weaker? Yeah fucking right buddy lmfao. Most vegans aren't interested in becoming olympians or powerlifters because they would neet to constantly be eating plates full of greens to get the same amount of protein in a steak.
This is the most retarded statement so far. You know that not everyone cares about picking things up and putting them down right? You know veganism isn't just plants right?

>How well the body can carry out all functions specific to the individual at hand
You know definitions are supposed to be specific and not broad right? You've defined nothing. If I'm a fat NEET that doesn't leave his room then I'm considered fit if I don't die and can walk to the bed under this definition.

>By the way you're study would make a lot more sense if they said what type of men they tested. Did they all have similar lifestyles? How were they picked?
It tells you this if you read the study. You're really not the brightest anon. You and water-anon are competing for the dumbest cunts in this thread and I think you're winning.

>>37070388
Look at him. Still going on about his shitty analogy.
>m-muh water

>>37070360
You are so much more respectable than every other faggot in this thread who is in denial and won't admit the only reason they eat meat is because they're weak.

>>37070423
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1534437

>>37070440
>You are the retard claiming you can drink tap water from third world countries and not pick up diseases
Strawman

>Especially the last bit.
Last bit of what you mongoloid. It was a long post. Stop expecting people to be the retard whisperer and divine what you're specifically talking about

>>37063792
Animal products are nice for many reasons. I'm not going to make some animal's life better at my own expense unless it's some kind of domestic animal.

>>37070360
>To be fair, I totally agree that vegetarians are totally right and they absolutely hold the moral high-ground
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2016/09/25/veganism.aspx
http://www.ourhenhouse.org/2013/02/the-ethical-arguments-against-ethical-veganism/
Keep on saying that psuedo-moral and ethics bullshit, maybe one day it'll be true.

>Let's have a real discussion about why the majority of humanity believe it is acceptable to consume meat

Primarily because it is.

>I'd really like to help people to change not just for ethical reasons

Ethics and morals are tools of societal cohesion. They apply to nonhuman entities ONLY in how they could possibly impact us, not for the inhuman benefit alone. To believe otherwise and care for the "ethics" of animals is a misapplication of morality.

>but for health and environmental reasons too.
>health

- We could not sustain this many humans with this little land all year round on the array and amount of vegetation we'd need to survive compared to supplementing it with meat, throughout all of history.

- Anything high in saturated fats will contribute to heart disease in excess no matter the source, not just meat

>environmental

I guess technically we'd improve the environment by essentially starving a ton of people if we all went vegan. Though surely you don't think that it's actually good for the environment to constantly leach specific nutrients en masse from as much soil as possible to feed billions of humans, and funnel those nutrients all into a few species, do you? Oh right nitrogen would magically return on its own haha

>So tell me robots why haven't you become a vegan yet?

Because I'm not a utopian-minded idiot who cares too much about animals