I honestly don't understand how someone who isn't mentally

They enjoy the normie tier shit like AoT and Naruto etc

You hit the nail on the head. Everyone that watches anime is retarded.

Nao is a pretty great waifu

>>36692380
>>36692406
You guys are so good at projection that I think you are destined for a career in the cinema business.

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>>36692380

Tick tock Hollywood, your time has almost elapsed. Your stagnant ideas and rampant propaganda has crushed you and the death of western entertainment is upon you. Eastern cinema rises and will take your money and your viewers and grind you into dust and the conniving sheep will flock like rats on a sinking ship as they drown, sunk by the rising glory of eastern cinema. Too late, you'll change your ways, when the little spreadsheets that show the dollars that govern your lives read zero will you desperately try to gain back what they have lost through their own ineptitude. But it will be too late. No one will answer their call. But no one will be left watching to see.
The sun is rising in the east.

>>36692380
it's a bunch of stories that are different from western television. I enjoy it more because there's greater variety. I don't enjoy japanese stuff exclusively though

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>>36692380
it's litterally just the stories in the anime like a movie or vidya atleast for the most part i don't think anyone actually get into anime because "le qt grlls doing qt things XDD"

>>36692461
Anime is incredibly reliant on tropes, there definitely isn't greater variety

I watch anime for the music.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUW_pip1J5g

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Explaining things to retards isn't my cup of tea so I'll refrain

How can you enjoy any media at all? Think about it by yourself and maybe you'll understand

>>36692499
Everything is a trope. It's just that in recent times people got the idea that tropes are somehow exclusive to anime. And yes, anime easily does have more variety than live action TV.

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>>36692499
>ask why people enjoy anime
>argue with them

You know, it occurs to me you actually had no interest in hearing people's reasons and just wanted to convince them not to all along.

You gotta learn how to listen, friend.

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>>36692380
Anime is cute, cute cute

>>36692499
I dunno. I don't get enough giant robots in my western television.

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>>36692380
I honestly don't understand how someone who isn't mentally subnormal can enjoy sports. It's legitimately a sign of retardation. Can a sports fan please explain to me the appeal?

I honestly don't understand how someone who isn't mentally subnormal can enjoy facebook. It's legitimately a sign of retardation. Can a normal fag please explain to me the appeal?

I honestly don't understand how someone who isn't mentally subnormal can enjoy e-sports. It's legitimately a sign of retardation. Can a e-sports fan please explain to me the appeal?

I honestly don't understand how someone who isn't mentally subnormal can enjoy drugs. It's legitimately a sign of retardation. Can a druggie please explain to me the appeal?

I honestly don't understand how someone who isn't mentally subnormal can enjoy smoking. It's legitimately a sign of retardation. Can a smoker please explain to me the appeal?

I honestly don't understand how someone who isn't mentally subnormal can enjoy alcohol. It's legitimately a sign of retardation. Can a alcoholist please explain to me the appeal?

I honestly don't understand how someone who isn't mentally subnormal can enjoy religion. It's legitimately a sign of retardation. Can a religious person please explain to me the appeal?

I honestly don't understand how someone who isn't mentally subnormal can enjoy [intrest]. It's legitimately a sign of retardation. Can a [person that has interest] please explain to me the appeal?

>>36692542
I neither asked the question nor would I call my post arguing

>>36692380
First of all you have to lower your standards, make it so the things wrong with every anime don't bother you. Aside from that, it's fun to be able to talk to people about it and is the ultimate form of escapism, especially moe shit.

Some Japanese artists don't have money to film a movie so they tell the story through anime. There's good stories and bad/retarded ones. I suggest you watch "Your name" great film and great story with none of that anime retardation. Seriously, it was so good i almost cried

>>36692515
Okay, but seriously folks anime has the best music.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7y8U29bfzE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rc-WzsnB8GE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_90YPfvrjo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfB6C8a8ttg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJuexdl_c5s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScV5tNmHbgw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xl6EiCIZYhI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyDGww159bY

>>36692611
Holy shit what is this trash lol fucking Jap cartoon music

It's a movie but made by japs

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>>36692380
I honestly don't understand how someone who isn't mentally subnormal can enjoy western TV. Can a normie please explain to me the appeal?

>>36692605
>Some Japanese artists don't have money to film a movie so they tell the story through anime.
I've never heard of this happening, and I don't think it's that simple. Unless you work your way through the industry and become able to create an original series or movie you would need to hire a crew which would cost a lot.

>>36692637
Anime does have the highest standard of soundtrack music, and it's not the same as cartoon music.

Depends. After any length of time spent solely on one genre/mode of fiction, you become attached to the good and bad of it. You learn to spot all the typical tells and cliches, and even appreciate them. A "sign of retardation" is a good way to put it, actually. You start out looking for "quality" anime, but after a while you slip into watching nothing but Slice of Life because SoL is so hard to fuck up it almost never betrays your (already low) expectations. Anime also has a tendency to become fetishized by its audience also, a lot of "anime fans" you'll speak to on 4chan are so jaded they only partake in seasonal weebshit purely to ogle the 2D females.

I personally love anime because even the bad stuff is interesting (compared to bad Western TV, anyway). It's like the 80's never ended in Japan, everything's so melodramatic and thematically transparent. It's unashamedly cheesy, and it doesn't make any apologies. When it's good, it's great. When it's bad, it's usually a trainwreck. Can't go wrong.

>>36692752
All TV anime is seasonal, and anime by definition cannot be weeaboo.

I never set out to look for "quality" anime, and I still watch all kinds of anime. The jaded "fans" don't watch anything, as they've decided everything is shit after watching five or ten anime.

It's an entire medium with an enormous wealth of diverse content. You can't just reduce it as universally worthless and somehow 'a sign of retardation'. It has valuable, interesting, and artful content just like any other huge medium. For example, Evangelion, Serial Experiments Lain, Fooly Cooly. Do you also think enjoying any American cartoons is 'a sign of retardation'? What of The Simpsons, Bojack Horseman, Gravity Falls?

>>36692932
>The Simpsons

deffo a retard barometer

>>36692963
>the greatest comedy show of all time
>a retard barometer
ok man

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>>36692979
>greatest comedy show of all time

>>36692996
gintama is my shit

anime is for children and people that want to fuck children

>>36693011
The former is objectively untrue and the latter is projection.

>>36692989
Your meme reaction image is a worthless response. The Simpsons being among the top comedies ever made is in no way a controversial opinion. You can find it on almost any top 10 list.

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>>36693040
>top ten lists

>>36693048
You're an idiot. I could write 'the sky is blue' and you'd greentext it and post some smug woman and think you won the argument.

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>>36693069
>the sky is blue

lmao you just won't quit

>>36693058
>implying I wasn't already

i have no problem with people watching whatever mediocre bs that they like
but my god i nothing grinds my gears than these anime dick riding faggot ass weeb bois
awful fucking animation
the most predictable storylines
one dimensional characters that dont even try to be realistic
not to mention the awful writing
idk how it sounds like in japanese but the subs are god awful
i lose respect for anyone who praises anime and makes it their lifes goal to recruit more weebs

>>36692553
> I honestly don't understand how someone who isn't mentally subnormal can enjoy sports. It's legitimately a sign of retardation. Can a sports fan please explain to me the appeal?

Sports encourage people to get active and humans are designed to be as such. It also teaches camaraderie among people.

> I honestly don't understand how someone who isn't mentally subnormal can enjoy facebook. It's legitimately a sign of retardation. Can a normal fag please explain to me the appeal?

I honestly don't understand this either.

> I honestly don't understand how someone who isn't mentally subnormal can enjoy e-sports. It's legitimately a sign of retardation. Can a e-sports fan please explain to me the appeal?

I agree on this one. It's just a video game for fuck's sake. There's nothing to be engaged at.

> I honestly don't understand how someone who isn't mentally subnormal can enjoy drugs. It's legitimately a sign of retardation. Can a druggie please explain to me the appeal?

Drug abuse is retarded. Drugs, if legal and not abused, can aid people who are sick.

> I honestly don't understand how someone who isn't mentally subnormal can enjoy smoking. It's legitimately a sign of retardation. Can a smoker please explain to me the appeal?

It's as retarded as e-sports.

> I honestly don't understand how someone who isn't mentally subnormal can enjoy alcohol. It's legitimately a sign of retardation. Can a alcoholist please explain to me the appeal?

Same opinion.

> I honestly don't understand how someone who isn't mentally subnormal can enjoy religion. It's legitimately a sign of retardation. Can a religious person please explain to me the appeal?

Religion is based on man's fear of death and we wanted to be sure that there's something after this life.

>>36693779
>awful fucking animation
It's the best in the world.

>the most predictable storylines
That depends on the anime, and not all stories are supposed to be unpredictable.

>one dimensional characters that dont even try to be realistic
Again depends on the anime and again not all characters are supposed to be complicated or realistic, nor are realism and non-realism good or bad things by themselves. The characters in Western media are also not as realistic as people keep thinking.

>not to mention the awful writing
There is awful writing in any medium.

>idk how it sounds like in japanese but the subs are god awful
I didn't realize all translations are made by one person.

>>36692459
> Tick tock Hollywood, your time has almost elapsed. Your stagnant ideas and rampant propaganda has crushed you and the death of western entertainment is upon you. Eastern cinema rises and will take your money and your viewers and grind you into dust and the conniving sheep will flock like rats on a sinking ship as they drown, sunk by the rising glory of eastern cinema. Too late, you'll change your ways, when the little spreadsheets that show the dollars that govern your lives read zero will you desperately try to gain back what they have lost through their own ineptitude. But it will be too late. No one will answer their call. But no one will be left watching to see.
> The sun is rising in the east.

What a bunch of bullshit.

First, Hollywood is still going strong because there are normies who still happily eat whatever the Jews hand to them.

Second, the sun rising in the east would be China, not Japan.

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>>36692380
Why does anyone watch any form of media? Look up the deficitarios of entertainment you mouthbreathing mongrel. You probably think all anime is HENTAI and PORN like most normies, but there are some great shows. But you wouldn't know that because you'd rather be lead by this false kike propaganda.

>>36693971
entertainment*
stupid auto correct
>ib4 phone poster
Fuck off im not home

>>36693971
With shows like DxD, Sin Nanatsu no Taizai, Qwaser, and Keijo you really can't blame the normies for thinking all anime is just porn in 2D form.

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>>36693913
>a weak tree always thinks it is standing strong before the storm comes

>>36692553
>hey guys all these natural normal human activities (excluding e-sports and facebook) that have been part of human society for thousands of years are totally equatable to the creation of 2d girls squealing to get some NEETs cock rock hard in his basement

Ok

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>>36692380
Anime, like books, movies, games, and other medias, are just ways to convey a story. We enjoy it for the same reason we enjoy a Hollywood movie, or a book - First, because it entertain us; Secondly, because it makes us forget reality for a few minutes, leaving our minds free from stress and worries; Finally, because stories might convey new ways to look at life, teach us things, as well as make us experience feelings without the real damage they may cause (for example, getting sad while watching a drama doesn't have the same damage in you as being sad because a friend died).

If you're asking about the anime itself, it's because animation is a really good way to tell stories. Its focused on getting rid of unimportant details and expanding those that actually matter - which is why emotions are over the top in animations. We simply like animations, and the japanese are, by far, the best at it.Not to mention that they also excel at making really cute and appealing characters. If that wasn't enough, they also have a particular community which is quite fun to be a part of.

If you still have any questions, just ask.

>>36694023
>First it entertains us
There are countless forms of entertainment that are productive intellectually and physically as opposed to a mind numbing violent and overly emotional cartoon animation

>it makes us forget about reality for a few minutes
This is the only one that makes sense, since weebs are losers

>>36694019
You really think (((Hollywood))) is that weak huh? The Jews are capable of surviving any storm being the vermin that they are. Hell, they almost eliminated the Germans without doing anything. That's how crafty they are.

>>36694022
Well, technically, drawing porn and/or good-looking stuff just to appease our inner desires is something we've been doing for quite awhile. Or do you really think that those naked statues were made because the Greeks/Romans had a deeper understanding of reality? No, they were just making cute things to look at because that's how humans work.

>>36694014
You can, since those shows make up a small minority and are mostly obscure. And I don't see anyone complaining about all the nudity, rape and fucking in American shows.

>>36694022
>2d girls squealing to get some NEETs cock rock hard in his basement
Also known as "shit that never happened."

>>36694055
>mind numbing violent and overly emotional cartoon animation
Anime is less violent than Western media, and it isn't cartoon animation.

>This is the only one that makes sense, since weebs are losers
Weebs don't exist and anime is made for the Japanese market.

>>36693908
the animation is garbo. Why you lying faggot
you knwo its just utter trash. Lierally stills with just the eyes and lips moving
pls anon 80% of anime is predictable af

the characters dont act in a way a regular human would, its so off putting. Maybe it has something to do with them being underage but w/e

>There is awful writing in any medium
this is such a childish argument i am not even gonna bother

>I didn't realize all translations are made by one person.
really nigger? are you even serious? Weeb tranlators that just write random fucking bullshit as dialogues all day

>>36694086
They don't complain because they don't think that those shows are meant for kids whereas after years and years of being exposed to Disney, normies think that anything animation is meant for kids.

>>36694094
>the animation is garbo.
Even if you think so, it's still the best in the world. I guess animation just isn't for you.

>Lierally stills with just the eyes and lips moving
https://sakugabooru.com/post/show/26248

>pls anon 80% of anime is predictable af
I already responded to this.

>the characters dont act in a way a regular human would
I responded to this too.

>this is such a childish argument i am not even gonna bother
It's childish to state a fact? How?

>really nigger? are you even serious? Weeb tranlators that just write random fucking bullshit as dialogues all day
No, there is not a single person who translates all anime into English. No, translators don't write random fucking bullshit.

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>>36694055
>I will ignore all the good points and just distort these two that I can
I'm bored, so I will keep fighting for this bait.
>There are countless forms of entertainment that are productive intellectually
Anime can be intellectually productive, it just depends on what you choose to watch. Not to mention, anything can be intellectually productive depending on how you consume it (not that I do it, but there are ways take something out of the dumbest shows). Also, entertainment doesn't always need to be productive - sometimes you just need to have fun and stop caring about the rest. So even at that your argument fails.


>This is the only one that makes sense, since weebs are losers
Then everyone is a loser, because escapism isn't exclusive to anime. Any media is or can be a form of escapism. Games are escapism. Sports are escapism. Even this shoe-lacing forum is a form of escapism.
If everyone is a loser, then no one really is.

>>36694086
>hey guys hentai bodypillows and japanese sex products totally aren't a giant market right

>anime is less violent than western media because i say it is
there are multiple genres dedicated to gore and violence, since the storylines are so shit they have to compensate with more blood.

>weebs dont exist, and anime is made for the japanese market

You realize this shit is not culturally normal in Japan, either? I've been to Japan multiple times, since I actually do something with my life instead of watching anime, and anime viewers are more socially outcastthan they are here. But you watch anime every day, so I'm sure you now better than me

>it isn't "CARTOON" ANIMATION
>WEEBS DONT EXIST

Loling hard

99% of anime is pure shit, the other 1% is so fucking good it excuses the rest and puts other forms of animation to shame

>>36694149
>ignore all the good points

You had one point that I didn't respond to, because it was so autistically framed. Let me answer the even more autistic ones for ya buddy

>They convey new ways to look at life

No, they show you absurd scenarios that never happen. You know what conveys new ways to look at life for a realistic and practical sense? Going OUTSIDE and actually experiencing it yourself!

>anime is intellectually productive

hey guys i learned about what a loli screams when she's in love with the main character

Are you really arguing the point now that ANYTHING is intellectually productive and therefore all activities are equal? You do realize there are fucking degrees to this, right? Digging a stick in the mud isn't as intellectually valuable as studying engineering.

This is why it's impossible to have a normal conversation with weebs. You have zero real social interaction and base everything off anime experience. Go the fuck outside, you sound like a complete nutcase.

>>36694141
im glad you dont know how to appreciate good animation or writing
that way we will never cross paths again
also pls educate yourself for the sake of the world

>>36694174
>hey guys hentai bodypillows and japanese sex products totally aren't a giant market right
Body pillows make up a minority of the merchandising market, and sex toys are irrelevant. All the ones I've ever seen are unofficial.

AmiAmi lists 68,776 items in the bishoujo character goods category, and only 2,273 items in the hugging pillows / cushion category.

>there are multiple genres dedicated to gore and violence, since the storylines are so shit they have to compensate with more blood.
Japanese TV restricts violent and sexual content. Tokyo Ghoul for example had large areas of the screen blacked out because the violence had to be censored. It was probably de-censored on the Blu-rays. There also is no genre dedicated to gore and violence.

>You realize this shit is not culturally normal in Japan, either?
One Piece is, relatively speaking, watched by as many people in Japan as GoT is in America. There are several anime movies in the all-time top 10, and anime movies are regularly in the yearly top 10. Any TV anime that airs during normal hours is culturally normal, and a great deal of late night anime is no more stranger than daytime anime, it just airs at an inconvinient hour. Some late night anime achieve mainstream popularity.

>it isn't "CARTOON" ANIMATION
It isn't.

>WEEBS DONT EXIST
They don't.

>>36694218
>99% of anime is pure shit
Meme.

>>36694224
>No, they show you absurd scenarios that never happen.
I didn't realize publishing a dictionary, surviving World War II or taking up a cycling hobby are absurd scenarios.

>hey guys i learned about what a loli screams when she's in love with the main character
Strawman.

>>36694257
>im glad you dont know how to appreciate good animation or writing
Where did I say anything like that?

>also pls educate yourself for the sake of the world
Educate myself on what?

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>>36692380
Nowadays I've actually started watching more tokusatsu shit than anime.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7MzNRs4CY

>>36694281
> >WEEBS DONT EXIST
> They don't.

Visit a Filipino anime Facebook group and get your beliefs shattered faster than you can say "onii-chan".

>>36694324
I am talking about the English-speaking world, although chances are good they don't exist anywhere else either.

>>36694281
>a single item makes up a minority of the market so it doesnt matter
>sex toys are irrelevant because I said so and the actual company doesn't sell them
>they censor content so that completely defeats the purpose and idea of the excess violence guise
>casual normie anime movies and weekend tv shows are watched by a lot of people so anime is popular there

>still not seeing the point of how autistic you are by correcting the semantics regarding cartoon

>WEEBS DONT EXIST

Again, you know nothing. Your analysis of Japanese culture through the internet and crunchyroll articles are hilariously pretentious and ignorant. Don't worry, you'd fit in perfectly in Akihabara if you ever manage to find a job to pay for your maid cafe expedition and see where you really belong.

I hate weeb culture but i have nothing against anime itself. Its just another form of escapism, no worse than video games or movies or music or whatever else. But if you are a weeb you need to legit fucking kys.

>>36694359
You're speaking the truth though brother.

>>36692380
Art is nice, I laugh at the retarded tropes and dumb scenes, I'm not smart when it comes to literature(deep meanings and shiii), Berserk = best, and what do we have that is any better?

ITT: Autistic weebs trying to defend their disgusting revolted culture. Just imagine what would happen if their coworkers (if they had a job) or friends (if they had friends) would say if they saw them spending their freetime watching 2D animated tsundere cartoons with squealing voices, that says enough.

>>36694379
Kino. Kino is better than anime by a long shot.

>>36694399
They'll get fired for being unfit for work or arrested for watching child porn.

>>36692380
Watch

Anything

By

Satoshi

Kon

(Or Cowboy bebop, or evangelion. Avoid moe or girl shit).

>>36694359
Meme.

>>36694360
>a single item makes up a minority of the market so it doesnt matter
Why do you think it matters so much?

>sex toys are irrelevant because I said so and the actual company doesn't sell them
They're unofficial and have essentially nothing to do with the anime industry. Why do you think they are so important?

>they censor content so that completely defeats the purpose and idea of the excess violence guise
You can't have excessive violence if violence gets censored before it can get excessive. There are not many anime that even go for that kind of violence.

>casual normie anime movies and weekend tv shows are watched by a lot of people so anime is popular there
Anime doesn't mean just late night anime, and do you really think that all live action movies are equally popular?

>still not seeing the point of how autistic you are by correcting the semantics regarding cartoon
How does that make me autistic?

>WEEBS DONT EXIST
They don't.

>Again, you know nothing.
No, that would be you.

>>36694399
>disgusting revolted culture
Anime cannot even hope to compete against Western movies and shows in that regard.

>2D animated tsundere cartoons with squealing voice
This is pure nonsense. You have no idea what you are talking about.

>>36694417
It is not possible for anime to be child porn.

That's because you don't know how to find the gems that resonate with your psyche...

Anime is a massive genera, to say you can't understand it's appeal is like saying you can't understand the appeal of other enertainment media such as movie, TV, music, art...etc.

If you can't understand that different people have different tastes of which do not require your approval... then it is YOU OP who are the retard either that of willfully ignorant.

But I agree that most anime are trash. But I've no feel to convince you, it's not to my benifit to expend further time nor energy on this.

>>36694426
>Avoid moe or girl shit
This doesn't mean anything. What exactly are you telling people to avoid and why?

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>>36694224
>No, they show you absurd scenarios that never happen. You know what conveys new ways to look at life for a realistic and practical sense? Going OUTSIDE and actually experiencing it yourself!
Of course you need to ignore philosophy and one of the main reason of telling a story just so you can answer me. It's almost like you have zero knowledge not only in anime, but on the actual basis of storytelling, writing, arts and animation. But you actually know about it, don't you? Don't you?
Stories can bring up scenarios you wouldn't see, or have the time to analyze, in real life. And then, by following them, you can extract new interpretations and realizations about your own views. This is something humanity has been doing since we learned to convey complex information to each other.
And because one method doesn't exclude the other, yes, going outside also works. But, why rely on only one method when you can experience both?
And just so you remember, this entire point isn't exclusive to anime, but to storytelling itself.
[cont]

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>>36694224
>>anime is intellectually productive
What I actually wrote:
>Anime can be intellectually productive
Jeez anon, I don't know, maybe you should do something more intellectually productive, because those brains of yours are really needing some stimulation. Hey, I know, why don't we watch some anime, hm?

>Are you really arguing the point now that ANYTHING is intellectually productive and therefore all activities are equal?
You only work in straw-mans, don't you? I argued that anything (and by anything I'm referring to books, movies, anime, etc, not generally any action, but I shouldn't need to explain that since it's basic text interpretation) can be intellectually productive depending on how you consume it. I didn't say it's all equal, I said it can be productive. For example, learning on why a bad show is bad, what is the appeal on it, what are it's flaws and rights will make you learn about directing, animating, and other fields, which is something intellectually productive.
>You do realize there are fucking degrees to this, right?
If you reached this conclusion, why would you think that I, since I haven't said anything on the contrary, haven't? My only point is that it can be productive, which was what you were asking for, not that it is the most productive activity. Now, if you start arguing that there are better activities and thus you should be doing them you only be moving your goalpost, and you don't want to be doing that, do you?

>You have zero real social interaction and base everything off anime experience
Ad hominem this soon? Anyway, the only real info you have about me is the fact that I watch anime, don't be so jumpy on your conclusion. Focus on my arguments, not my person. Even if I was a NEET in a basement, my arguments would still be true unless you beat them.

>>36694446
>But I agree that most anime are trash.
Meme.

>"Hey Anon, we're having dinner" says anons father as he walks into his dark room lit up only by his CRT monitor
>"EHHHHH!!! ONII-CHAN!!!" shrieks the tsundere as she slaps the main character, her small tits jiggling around
>anon panickingly tries to smash the space button, adjusts his glasses
>"o-oh, ok dad I'll be down in a second, ok?"
>he walks down the stairs with a giant sigh, shaking his head
>"i'll be back soon, my precious" whispers anon to his imported cumstained waifu figure
>waddles down the stairs

Just one of the more normal interactions an anime watching adult has.

>>36694432
>you know nothing because I said so

>WHY?
>WHY?
>NO!
>NO!
>ANIMATED LITTLE GIRLS FUCKING IS NORMAL

I love talking to weebs, unlike trolls you can't even be mad, just gaze in awe at how socially incompetent and autistic they actually are.

>>36694447
>this doesn't mean anything.

Google Moe for genre specifications.

Girl shit is like strawberry surprise high school romance shit.

Moe is an art style used frequently in slice of life anime.

>>36694432
What is One Room and Kodomo no Jikan?

>>36692380
Because it's the only form of hand-drawn animation left in the world.

CG and flash animation is cancer and anime goes against that cancer.

>>36694406
I'll give it a watch today. Also, I forgot that we have Rick and Morty.

>>36694469
>I definitely have no idea what I'm talking about, but I'll post anyway

>>36694496
>you know nothing because I said so
Because I explained why you are wrong.

>WHY?
>WHY?
So does that mean you can't answer the questions?

>ANIMATED LITTLE GIRLS FUCKING IS NORMAL
Where did I say this? Where were we even talking about that?

>I love talking to weebs, unlike trolls you can't even be mad, just gaze in awe at how socially incompetent and autistic they actually are.
Nice projection. Also, I'm not a weeb. Weebs don't even exist.

>>36694499
>Google Moe for genre specifications.
It isn't a genre.

>Girl shit is like strawberry surprise high school romance shit.
So basically anything.

>Moe is an art style used frequently in slice of life anime.
It isn't an art style.

>>36694517
What about them?

>>36694518
> CG and flash animation is cancer and anime goes against that cancer.

Anime IS the cancer and shows like South Park and the news is what goes AGAINST cancer.

>>36692380
it's not about the animation for me. It's about the story. Attack on titan, death note, Evangelion, steins gate, etc... how would you explore stories like that without animation?

>>36694555
How is it cancer?

>>36694543
Those two are the closest thing anime can be to be classified as child porn.

>>36694555
South Park is pure dogshit that Redditors like to make themselves feel intellectual.

>>36694543
>answers half my points with open ended WHY's or YOU'RE WRONG! with nothing to back it up

>keeps going on some autistic little crusade in his head about how weebs don't exist without elaborating

It's like trying to solve a riddle having a normal conversation with you. You know nothing about western culture OR japanese culture, you know weeaboo culture, because you're autistic and that's all you experience in your day to day life.

>>36694567
When was the last time anime tried to make a point for the viewers? 10 years? 15? You see, if something doesn't give you any lesson or point to take home, it's cancer.

>>36694543
Post your picture if you want to prove the point that anime viewers are well adjusted humans.

>>36694577
What does Oreimo or EroManga Sensei teach you about that makes SP dogshit?

>>36694596
The Tatami Galaxy?
Ping Pong?

Why are you making it so obvious you have no clue what you're talking about?

Kill yourself.

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>shaming tactic on /r9k/ of all places

>>36694406
Didn't I tell you I was dumb? I just searched up Kino looking for some western animated show or something. I find what seems to be an anime named Kino'd journey. Then I go to urban dic... KINO = MOVIES FOR PEOPLE WITH BRAINS!

>>36694563
Eva can be explored with CG or practical effects like Ultraman and Star Wars.

>>36694612
I never said I liked either of those but keep projecting kid

>>36692380

Hold on, I see what you're doing here Troll.

How else to cause a shitstorm on 4chan than TRIGGER the whole community with...

>I honestly don't understand how someone who isn't mentally subnormal can enjoy anime. It's legitimately a sign of retardation. Can a weeb please explain to me the appeal?

OP = shitpost

>>36694632
sure, but think of the budget you would need for that.

>>36694642
Anti-anime fags are the cancer, they're the refugees that came here trying to push off the core userbase of this site.

>>36694576
Neither of them are porn. One Room doesn't even qualify as ecchi. Neither of them also have children.

>>36694594
>answers half my points with open ended WHY's or YOU'RE WRONG! with nothing to back it up
I simply asked you to explain what you mean, which you were completely unable to do. Claiming that I just responded with "you're wrong" is a complete lie.

>keeps going on some autistic little crusade in his head about how weebs don't exist without elaborating
Every person who is accused of being a weeb is not a weeb. I never see weebs anywhere. Therefore I must conclude they don't exist. At least not in any meaningful sense.

>You know nothing about western culture OR japanese culture
Why don't you try backing up this claim?

>you know weeaboo culture
I don't even know what "weeaboo culture" is supposed to be.

>because you're autistic
No I'm not.

>>36694596
>When was the last time anime tried to make a point for the viewers?
This season.

>>36694605
>post your picture so we can divert the thread away from the topic that I'm unable to argue

>>36694612
OreImo teaches people not to jump to conclusions based on memes. Quite a valuable lesson in this day and age.

>>36694632
Most things in anime can be done in live action, but at what cost and at what level of quality?

>>36694632
I don't want to watch fucking normies and their ugly faces do shit when I can't connect with them. Have you been outside? I need a blank slate; a society I don't already despise.

>>36694648
Considering that Anno is filthy rich these days, maybe he can afford it. I'm not sure in '95 though.

>>36694663
>arguing that anime is a normal thing for normal people
>won't post his picture as a prime example to show he isn't a giant greasy fat neckbeard

Looks like the perfect way to win the argument for you, still waiting.

>>36694673
Yes, yes I've been outside and you really need to learn to deal with other people because the world doesn't revolve around you.

>>36694695
Nobody on /r9k/ is normal you runt, fuck off to Facebook or some other site.

It was a lot fucking better before you came along.

>>36694695
>arguing that anime is a normal thing for normal people
It is, and I already demonstrated it.

>still waiting
I know exactly what you're trying to do. You want to derail the thread and turn this into an argument about me, because you know you can't handle arguing the actual topic.

>>36694679
Yeah, but what i'm getting at is that it's such an easy platform to tell the story, so why not use it? I don't care if it's animated or real action as long as it is interesting , of course the quality of the animation matters too

>>36694716
>can't handle arguing the actual topic.
He isn't arguing straight up.
It's the classic normalfag scapegoat of attacking your personality instead of constructing a well-thought out response.

Why do you keep replying to an idiot who does fuck all research?

>>36694543
You're a fucking idiot (who is also a troll).

Have a free (you)

>>36694697
I don't want it to m8. I just want to mute and avoid the annoying ones.

>>36694663
I see but didn't shows like The Simpsons already did that type of shit without pandering to the minority which is the "I watch anime to jerk off" crowd?

I really see that you're trying to defend your hobby and good for you but don't just turn a blind eye on the bad thing associated with it.

>>36694716
>You argue that watching anime is normal
>Won't post a picture of yourself to prove you are just one of many normal anime watchers and not an obese loser pretending its normal

Wow, i thought i was gonna be here for another hour. That was easy as fuck. Guess you can go back and cry to your angel beats mate, great story that is

>>36694772
Why don't you post a picture of yourself to prove your normality buddy?

Or are you too insecure for that?

Samurai Champloo is the only good anime ever made, the sword fights are really well done and i like the historical spin on it, i like how it finished nicely and didn't turn into endless seasons of convoluted garbage

>>36694745
I'm not an idiot or a troll. Try again.

>>36694753
Pandering doesn't exist in anime, and "I watch anime to jerk off" is a strawman.

>don't just turn a blind eye on the bad thing associated with it
What things?

>>36694772
See >>36694716

>>36694783
Cry more bitch nigga

Go find some other place to troll

>>36694786
>endless seasons of convoluted garbage
You do realize that only constitutes like 5% of it, right?

>>36694791
You're both an idiot and a troll

An idiot because you don't know how to use google

A troll because you don't know how to refute a central point.

Finish high school then come back, underage b&

>>36694750
>I just want to mute and avoid the annoying ones.

Now you're learning. Avoiding annoying people is one way of dealing with society.

>>36692380
Why does it seem that the people whp hate anime are usually Filthy Frank fags?

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>>36692380

Robots are autist... OP is SHITPOSTING !!!

How else to get Anons riled up then to attack Anime?

You're all cucks now...

This SHITPOSTER just fucked your waifu.

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why does this thread have this many replies
I don't like it

>>36694783
Your point was that anime watchers are normal people and its a normal thing. If I was arguing that point, I'd post my picture to prove that. Obviously you are a fat undesirable loser because you won't. Shit, just post your body! Nobody can recognize you from that.

Now you're trying to switch the tables and personally attack me to post MY picture. I never argued anything that would make that appropriate.

Let me know if you need any diet tips, buddy.

>>36694786
>X/Y/Z is the only good anime ever made
Meme.

Most anime are short or relatively short, it's only a few series that go on for hundreds of episodes.

>>36694815
>An idiot because you don't know how to use google
How did I demonstrate not being able to use Google?

>A troll because you don't know how to refute a central point.
How did I fail to do that? Also, not knowing how to refute a point does not make someone a troll. That's not what troll means.

>Finish high school then come back, underage b&
Projection.

>>36694835
What's the problem, why are you avoiding my query?

Just post a picture of yourself pal.

>>36694838
Yep you're a troll.

If you weren't you'd actually attempt to refute central points.

/thread

>>36694852
For what reason? Now you've devolved into full autist regurgitation deflection mode. If I was arguing a point that suggested a group I was a part of was normal, it would be appropriate to post my picture.

Still waiting for you to prove weebs are normal, all it takes is one upload!

>>36694865
You failed to explain how I failed to use Google. You failed to explain how I failed to refute a central point.

>>36694791
Bah gawd are you really that blind?! The "I watch anime to jerk off" crowd isn't even a fucking strawman. Visit any anime related Facebook group, even the English speaking ones have those kind of people.

See, this is just one OF the bad things your hobby is associated with. Shows pandering to prepubescent boys, people who claim 2D girls as their wives, porn that goes beyond the normal boundaries of human sexuality and lots more. You really need to open your eyes.

Go watch Otaku no Video and get what I'm saying.

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SHITPOST ALERT

You are being Trolled you KEKS.

>>36694876
Well I'm not fat and I'm in relatively good health.
Personally, I never want to post a picture of myself here because 4chan is anonymous and I'd rather not share any concrete details of myself here.

>>36694898
Well I agree with the troll. Anime as it is right now is shit.

>>36694901
So then post a picture from the neck down in a t-shirt and pants.

>>36694891
What's the difference between that and people who claim celebrities as their future wives?

There is no distinction between the two apaert from the fact that one is a drawing and one is real, they'll never have either in the end.

>>36694822
They're as retarded as anime fans. Most people who hate anime that are sane either listen to KPop or watch American TV.

>>36694917
> What's the difference between that and people who claim celebrities as their future wives?

The difference is that people who claim celebs as wives KNOW that it's just a fantasy while those you oh so proudly defend do NOT.

>>36694888
1. If Moe is not a genre then inform the person making the argument of what it actually is (with a citeable source).

2. You're playing the coy retard who answers only in open ended questions.

If you used google you'd know that Moe is "cute" in Japanese used to define a type of art style in Anime defined as "slice of life". You literally just have to google it to find that I'm right.

That's all you get from me.

>>36694891
>The "I watch anime to jerk off" crowd isn't even a fucking strawman.
It's a strawman because it assumes anime is made for Westerners and that everyone is watching anime for the purpose of jerking off.

>Shows pandering to prepubescent boys
Making anime for boys--such as Dragon Ball and Youkai Watch--is a bad thing? Why? And how are they pandering?

>people who claim 2D girls as their wives
It's little different from being in love with a celebrity or someone on Facebook, except it has no chance of turning into stalking.

>porn that goes beyond the normal boundaries of human sexuality
Most anime porn is vanilla, and has has almost nothing to do with the anime industry.

>Go watch Otaku no Video and get what I'm saying.
I have watched it, and I can see that you didn't understand the point. Those interviews aren't meant to showcase the "dark side" of being an "otaku," they're satire meant to question the meaning of "otaku" and the way "otaku" are perceived.

>>36694913
>Anime as it is right now is shit.
Meme.

>>36694952
People who have a waifu know it's fantasy too. Or actually they know it better than the people who obsess over celebrities.

>>36694952
How do you know that?

You're pulling shit out of your asshole with zero logic.

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OTAKU AUTIST... IT'S A KEKING SHITPOST!

>>36694971
>1. If Moe is not a genre then inform the person making the argument of what it actually is (with a citeable source).
It's a feeling of love, infatuation, excitement or euphoria you have towards a character.

>2. You're playing the coy retard who answers only in open ended questions.
Show examples of this.

>If you used google you'd know that Moe is "cute" in Japanese used to define a type of art style in Anime defined as "slice of life".
Moe does not mean cute, kawaii means cute. It is not an art style, and neither is is slice of life. Slice of life is a genre.

I don't have to Google this stuff because I've studied it a lot more than you have. I have read books and studies on the topic.

>>36695010
GUYS

HES A WEEABOO TROLL

OUTED

LET THREAD SLIDE

>>36694791
>pandering doesn't exist in anime

Shut the fuck up. Seriously.

>>36695033
I'm not a weeaboo or a troll. Try again.

>>36695034
Yeah, you people always have this kind of response. Yet again and again you fail to prove it exists. I've had this argument countless times. Nobody's ever proven it exists.

>>36695033
What was the purpose of this thread if you're just going to dismiss any counter arguments as trolls?

>>36694973
>Making anime for boys--such as Dragon Ball and Youkai Watch--is a bad thing? Why? And how are they pandering?
So you agree that certain broad genres appeal to certain demographics? Case fucking closed, fuck the fuck off now.

>>36695059
Except OP was making the argument that all Japanese animation, regardless of quality was for manchildren.

Learn some reading comprehension.

>>36695059
>So you agree that certain broad genres appeal to certain demographics?
Dragon Ball and Youkai Watch are not watched by boys because they just happen to appeal to them, they specifically have boys as the target audience. This is not pandering.

>>36695053
>fail to prove it exists

Okay. Explain gratuitous fanservice, and titillation beyond any reasonable sense that would move the story along. I could also ask you about marketing departments, and their function if not to pander to particular demographics? You're fucking delusional if you seriously think there is no pandering in anime. There is pandering in all fiction, by definition. The pandering in anime exists, and it's staring you right in the face. Weebshit is very homogeneous and the fanbase is particular, shows often live or die based purely off the appeal of their female characters. See: shit like Dagashi Kashi.

>>36695098
This is going to turn into a chicken/egg discussion, isn't it?

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>>36695033
They are lost to this manipulation...

OP using them like Feminazi used pre MGTOW members.

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>>36694973
> It's a strawman because it assumes anime is made for Westerners and that everyone is watching anime for the purpose of jerking off.

I did not, did NOT, say that everyone who watched anime jacks off to it. I just said the minority of the fans. Besides, there are Japanese people who do that depraved shit so your argument is blown out of proportions.

> >Shows pandering to prepubescent boys
> Making anime for boys--such as Dragon Ball and Youkai Watch--is a bad thing? Why? And how are they pandering?

Dragon Ball is okay I get that. Yo-Kai Watch on the other hand is just a 24 minute game/toy ad like Pokemon or Gundam Build Fighters.

> >people who claim 2D girls as their wives
> It's little different from being in love with a celebrity or someone on Facebook, except it has no chance of turning into stalking.

Okay.

> >porn that goes beyond the normal boundaries of human sexuality
> Most anime porn is vanilla, and has has almost nothing to do with the anime industry.

Hmmmm... maybe mordern anime porn is mostly vanilla but shit like Kuroinu and La Blue Girl are beyond human sexuality and no, you don't see tentacle or orc porn in JAV.

> >Go watch Otaku no Video and get what I'm saying.
> I have watched it, and I can see that you didn't understand the point. Those interviews aren't meant to showcase the "dark side" of being an "otaku," they're satire meant to question the meaning of "otaku" and the way "otaku" are perceived.

You don't make a satire of something that's good.

> >Anime as it is right now is shit.
> Meme.

If 75% of the product in the production line is defective and 25% of it works, is that batch of products quality or shit?

> People who have a waifu know it's fantasy too. Or actually they know it better than the people who obsess over celebrities.

Seems kinda okay too but you can't deny that they're having a relationship with a ball of fucking nothing.

>>36695053
>not a weeaboo
>researched Anime extensively

Whatever dude

>>36695131
>Explain gratuitous fanservice, and titillation beyond any reasonable sense that would move the story along.
Explain why that constitutes pandering. Protip: you can't. Countless people have tried, they've all failed. It is not pandering. It is only pandering if it's made with the intent of pandering. If you want to prove pandering, you have to bring up a specific work and then provide evidence that the creators were engaged in pandering. Nobody has done this to date.

>I could also ask you about marketing departments, and their function if not to pander to particular demographics?
Marketing does not mean pandering.

>Weebshit
Anime, by definition, can't be weeaboo.

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>>36695033
>Implying half of the fun isn't to just throw shit at each other playing on his bait

>>36695010
Moe is actually used as a genre sometimes, as in 'moe-kei'

https://web-beta.archive.org/web/20120117074832/www.tsurupeta.info/content/confusion-about-moe

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This argument has always been retarded because anime encompasses shit like Berserk, Legend of the Galactic Heroes and Patlabor to
fucking Oreimo and Umaru-chan.

Retards like OP who throw the entire thing under the bus are just as fucking bad as the seasonal moeshit eaters.

>>36695161
>>>/pol/
You offer nothing to this website, fucking kill yourself unironically

>>36695185
>Explain why that constitutes pandering. Protip: you can't. Countless people have tried, they've all failed. It is not pandering. It is only pandering if it's made with the intent of pandering. If you want to prove pandering, you have to bring up a specific work and then provide evidence that the creators were engaged in pandering. Nobody has done this to date.

Ever heard of sex sells? Series like Prison School use sex to hook people into reading the manga/watching the anime.

Vinces McMahon and Russo openly said that they used sex to get people to watch the WWF in 1998 so why can't your precious anime producers do the same? Unless, of course, they do it. You just keep on denying the fact that this happens quite a lot bro.

>>36695187
Anime threads outside of /a/ are always crigeworthy bad, I don't know why I bother anymore.

>>36695162
>I just said the minority of the fans.
Then why bring them up? What importance do they have?

>Besides, there are Japanese people who do that depraved shit so your argument is blown out of proportions.
I'm sure there are, but the common claim that Japanese fans just sit around masturbating all day or are always motivated by masturbation is a strawman. Projection, even.

>Dragon Ball is okay I get that. Yo-Kai Watch on the other hand is just a 24 minute game/toy ad like Pokemon or Gundam Build Fighters.
There's nothing intrinsically wrong with an anime that's constructed to promote toys. It is not mutually exclusive with making a good anime, and the less good the anime is the less likely it is that anyone will buy the toys. And ultimately all commercial art is selling you something.

>Hmmmm... maybe mordern anime porn is mostly vanilla but shit like Kuroinu and La Blue Girl are beyond human sexuality and no, you don't see tentacle or orc porn in JAV.
You also don't see tentacles or orcs in real life.

>You don't make a satire of something that's good.
It's a satire of the way they are perceived.

>f 75% of the product in the production line is defective and 25% of it works, is that batch of products quality or shit?
Still a meme.

>Seems kinda okay too but you can't deny that they're having a relationship with a ball of fucking nothing.
Kind of like people pining after a celebrity or someone on social media.

>>36695167
That's not what weeaboo means.

>>36695185
>Explain why that constitutes pandering. Protip: you can't.

pander
verb
gerund or present participle: pandering
gratify or indulge (an immoral or distasteful desire or taste or a person with such a desire or taste).

So what is fanservice if not pandering? If the intent is there all the same (to make people jack off/get them hard), it's still pandering. Doesn't matter how transparent it is. it's pandering, full fucking stop. And if the titillation isn't there to make viewers jack off or have them become attached to the characters, then what is it there for? You'd have to justify each and every instance of it artistically before I'd give you an inch, and that's impossible. This shit is fucking pandering.

>Marketing does not mean pandering
The crux of marketing is exploiting a skillset or activity that is otherwise unoccupied. To do this, pandering is essential. What do you think "fanservice" is?

>Anime, by definition, can't be weeaboo.
"Weebshit", being shit typically enjoyed by weeaboos, most certainly can exist by definition.

>>36695326
>Weebshit
Hey kid, this isn't /v/.

I'm not going to take your argument seriously if you spam buzzwords.

>>36692380
I honestly don't understand why non anime fans browse a website built for anime image discussion. but hey if it's trendy to go on "super dank spooky ebin 4chan" by all means.

>>36695338
>>36695338
Hey kid, I don't give a fuck.

Posts like this tell me you haven't got shit to say. Frankly, I don't even disagree that pandering isn't necessarily a bad thing. But to claim that anime has NONE is just fucking preposterous.

>>36695425
I'm not him and I agree that anime does have pandering in it.
I'm just sick of idiots using "weebshit" to brand stuff they haven't even played or watched to be honest.

>>36695213
It's not a genre.

>>36695284
>Ever heard of sex sells?
Yeah, in the West. Sexuality is a normalized part of manga and anime among both professional creators and fans, not some cunning ploy to rope idiots into buying something. Sales data also shows that anime that's heavy on sexual content has mostly poor to mediocre sales.

>>36695326
>So what is fanservice if not pandering?
It's just sexual content. There is no reason why that would be intrinsically pandering while, say, robots and cars are not.

The pandering theory of anime is based on the idea that creators have zero interest in sexuality and only include it for the sake of "tricking" fans into buying the work, either because they want to make money or because they have to do it in order to make money. But why would it be the case that creators have no interest in it while fans do? It isn't the case, and Comiket is a good example of that. The reality is that there is little distinction between creators and fans in Japan. If fans are interested in sexuality for its own sake, then so are creators.

>You'd have to justify each and every instance of it artistically before I'd give you an inch, and that's impossible.
It doesn't need to have any artistic meaning to it.

>The crux of marketing is exploiting a skillset or activity that is otherwise unoccupied. To do this, pandering is essential.
The crux of marketing is to promote whatever manga or anime has been created by the company or client.

>"Weebshit", being shit typically enjoyed by weeaboos, most certainly can exist by definition.
Weeaboos don't exist and even when they did anime was not targeted at them.

>>36695320
> Then why bring them up? What importance do they have?

I brought them up to prove a point that those kind of people exist and not all anime watchers are normal people as you enthusiastically preach.

> I'm sure there are, but the common claim that Japanese fans just sit around masturbating all day or are always motivated by masturbation is a strawman. Projection, even.

You really don't listen do you? Remember when I said they're the minority? Ever heard of hikkikomori?


> There's nothing intrinsically wrong with an anime that's constructed to promote toys. It is not mutually exclusive with making a good anime, and the less good the anime is the less likely it is that anyone will buy the toys. And ultimately all commercial art is selling you something.

Kids aren't as intelligent as you think. They would watch it as long as there is something cool on the show. They don't care about the plot of the show.


> You also don't see tentacles or orcs in real life.

You just proved my fucking point. I also belive that octopi and squids have tentacles but animals that have tentacles that go into human vaginas certainly don't. Be careful about that one buddy.

> It's a satire of the way they are perceived.
...and how are they perceived? You can thank Tsutomu Miyazaki for that.

> >f 75% of the product in the production line is defective and 25% of it works, is that batch of products quality or shit?
> Still a meme.

No it's not. It's called quality control and it exists weeb.


> Kind of like people pining after a celebrity or someone on social media.

At least Stacey Gigantepussy can interact with the fans.

>>36695461
>It's not a genre.
And I just told it is used that way. Did you even read that link? 'moe-kei' is a term used like 'nichijou-kei' or whatever. I'm not saying it's not a feeling too, but the word is not that limited in scope. It has multiple definitions in Japanese. It would be more accurate for me to say I liked 'moe-kei' than just anime in general.

>>36695326
Whenever someone says 'pandering', they just mean that it doesn't pander to them. It's your problem if it bothers you for there to be sexual undertones in your entertainment. Most seasonal anime is aimed at otaku, who by and large like bishoujo characters. Creators and consumers both like it. It doesn't need to be justified. Sometimes it's even a normalfag repellent, like how Maidragon was a cute family comedy that pissed off loads of retards on MAL and tumblr who couldn't get pass Lucoa or Kanna without resorting to dumb buzzwords. If it cut out those kinds of scenes and replaced them with some kind of navel-gazing LGBT life lessons or something it would be pandering to them.

And no one jacks off to seasonal anime. It's just cute fantasy.

>>36695461
I agree with a bulk of what you've said, but I say again: why isn't it pandering even when it's transparent and encouraged? I don't disagree that anime fans and producers know exactly what they're giving and taking, but why isn't that pandering if a majority of one product's features align with the preferences of an established demographic? Pandering exists, it's fucking everywhere and anywhere you can think to find it. Especially in anime, a special-interest medium by nature.

>Weeaboos don't exist
They fucking do, though. I won't disagree that they're not pandered to though, western markets are pretty much irrelevant when it comes to anime. Which is fine.

>>36695541
>Whenever someone says 'pandering', they just mean that it doesn't pander to them
Hey look, we agree! That doesn't mean there's NO pandering in anime though, does it?

>>36695562
>western markets are pretty much irrelevant
Which is why Netflix still has anime on their service?
Oh wait...

>>36695475
>I brought them up to prove a point that those kind of people exist and not all anime watchers are normal people as you enthusiastically preach.
I never said all anime viewers are normal people.

>Remember when I said they're the minority?
Remember when I asked why you're bringing them up?

>Ever heard of hikkikomori?
What about them?

>Kids aren't as intelligent as you think. They would watch it as long as there is something cool on the show. They don't care about the plot of the show.
The Pretty Cure series, which is designed to promote toys for little girls, is known for its high animation quality and has pages upon pages of examples on sakugabooru. It also has very high quality music:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmGFgRwFoAo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syI_Ts7rkE8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abVWWXAkMTU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJk0BcSB3kU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qB6J98KhmQQ

Now why would they put so much effort into the animation and music if they're just going to promote toys to dumb kids who don't know anything?

I have seen the first season of Pretty Cure. It's a good show and they definitely didn't phone it in because "the kids won't notice." Many late night anime have inferior direction and storyboarding.

>You just proved my fucking point.
The point is that it's fantasy and has no relation to reality.

>...and how are they perceived? You can thank Tsutomu Miyazaki for that.
What is your point?

>No it's not.
Yes it is.

>weeb
I'm not a weeb.

>At least Stacey Gigantepussy can interact with the fans.
And?

ugh, another faggot trying to bait new users.
Your shitpost is weak.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WJSK2jbuVI

>>36695598
Which immediately tells us that Japanese studios are considering the opinions of foreign audiences when they produce their content, right? They haven't been licensing and distributing their content overseas for decades now, have they?
Oh wait...

File: fa9.png (394KB, 680x699px) Image search: [Google]

394KB, 680x699px

I just marathoned Kemono friends.

>>36695541
>And I just told it is used that way.
It's incorrect usage, and moe-kei means something like "moe style" which isn't the same thing as genre.

>>36695562
>why isn't it pandering even when it's transparent and encouraged?
Why is it pandering? Where is your proof that the creators had the intent of pandering?

>Pandering exists, it's fucking everywhere and anywhere you can think to find it.
Yet nobody can document even a single instance of it.

>They fucking do, though.
Then where are they? I never see them around, and every single person I see accused of being a weeaboo isn't one.

>>36695572
>Hey look, we agree! That doesn't mean there's NO pandering in anime though, does it?
Yes it does, because the word is redundant and disingenuous. You're coming into a place filled with people who like something and saying 'Actually, this thing you like is just PANDERING!' It's like if I told fans of Western fantasy novels that their shit is 'pandering' because they're 'power fantasies' it would be equally silly. Those people like stories about young men becoming stupidly powerful swordsman, wizards, etc. like WoT. It's a convenient way of pretending that you're being objective about something without actually engaging with it on its own terms.

>>36695598
Anime barely makes any money and relies on Japanese otaku pretty much entirely. Those Blu-rays are expensive because they're basically how otaku 'donate' (along with character goods etc,). The line between creator and fan is very thin and Westerners are largely irrelevant to the process.

>>36695681
>It's incorrect usage, and moe-kei means something like "moe style" which isn't the same thing as genre.
'Kei' correspond largely to genre. Nichijou-kei is almost always is translated as 'slice-of-life', which as you said is a genre.

And there's no such thing as 'incorrect usage'. That's how the word is used. Definitions are descriptive, not prescriptive.

>>36695705
Slice of life is a genre. Moe is not.

>>36695705
>Anime barely makes any money
Which is why 200 fucking shows are produced every year?

>>36695618
> Remember when I asked you why you're bringing them up?

I just did and I remembered answering that those kind of people exist in the community.


> What about them?

They're the ones who are mostly deluded into jacking off to 2D.


> The Pretty Cure series, which is designed to promote toys for little girls, is known for its high animation quality and has pages upon pages of examples on sakugabooru. It also has very high quality music


> Now why would they put so much effort into the animation and music if they're just going to promote toys to dumb kids who don't know anything?

It's done to reel the kids into asking their parents into doing so. It's called subliminal messaging.

> I have seen the first season of Pretty Cure. It's a good show and they definitely didn't phone it in because "the kids won't notice." Many late night anime have inferior direction and storyboarding.

I kinda agree with the late night thing thay's why people think all anime is Eromanga Sensei.


> The point is that it's fantasy and has no relation to reality.

Sooner or later delusions can affect their perception of reality thus making their moral stances polluted.


> What is your point?

Miyazaki killed little girls and when the cops went into his flat for investigation, they found anime child porn that's why the stigma exists.

Sadly the community in Japan didn't do jack shit on improving their image.

> Yes it is.
Go read a book on manufacturing.

> >weeb
> I'm not a weeb.
Yes you are. Wake up.

> >At least Stacey Gigantepussy can interact with the fans.
> And?
That at least gives the fans the knowledge that Stacey knows their existence even if it sge just phones it in.

>>36695734
>Slice of life is a genre. Moe is not.
And I'm telling you it is used to describe anime and manga in a generic form. It doesn't matter if you keep repeating that. Anime/manga that is made to conform to moe aesthetics, to elicit moe, is frequently called 'moe-kei' or moe anime. This is both a useful and precise way of describing a subset of anime/manga. In fact, it's rarely to find 'moe' used in the original sense of 'I'm moe for X!' because of overexposure.

>>36695754
Yes, seasonal anime doesn't really make much money. It's largely a passion project. Animators are overworked and paid like shit. They make a lot but that doesn't make it some kind of lucrative enterprise.

no memeing, but I believe that you have to be intellectually dishonest to enjoy and take anime(including japanese vidya) as a legitimate medium of storytelling.

>>36695681
>Why is it pandering?
I've already said it: even if it isn't disingenuous or ill-intended, when one work's characteristics align with the tastes of a demographic or fanbase, it's "fanservice", ergo it's pandering to fans of that particular interest, ergo it's pandering to somebody.

>Yet nobody can document even a single instance of it
I don't think we agree on what "pandering" actually constitutes. You seem to think it's part-and-parcel of larger Machiavellian schemes by suits to fleece an audience for quick cash. I think it's a broad, all-encompassing catch-word for traits and recurrent tropes designed specifically to appeal to fans of a particular genre or interest. As I've said: pandering is everywhere. But even if I had to take the argument under your terms, would you seriously be confident enough to claim that, beyond a doubt, absolutely NO disingenuous pandering has been undertaken by somebody involved within the anime industry at one time or another?

>Then where are they? I never see them around, and every single person I see accused of being a weeaboo isn't one.
The term 'weeaboo' is pretty fluid (this is going to drum up another shitty discussion, I just know it), but commonly it pertains to foreign fans of Japanese animation who labour under pretension and a dislike of Western culture. They exist, I've seen them. I've even met one in person (more if High School counts).

>>36695705
I agree, but I disagree. Just because pandering is a slippery buzzword doesn't mean there is ZERO pandering within the medium.

>>36695845
Even though Berserk is one of the greatest dark fantasies ever made?

Fuck off

>>36693971
When it comes to destroying tge white race you should call anime the kike propaganda

>>36693858
People who watch sports as a hobby are brain dead zombies.
I play but watching is shit.

>>36695883
How is it destroying the white race anymore than any other media?

>>36695845
Do you have any evidence to back up your claims?

>>36695800
>They're the ones who are mostly deluded into jacking off to 2D.
Hikikomori means shut-in. A hikikomori may or may not be an otaku, and may or may not masturbate to anime characters.

>It's done to reel the kids into asking their parents into doing so. It's called subliminal messaging.
If kids are dumb and don't know anything, why go through the effort? Anyway, you're wrong. The actual reason is that anime creators want to make good anime, and the people in charge of the toy side have no reason to not want the anime to be good too. They're also not likely involved much in the making of the anime.

The most memorable episode of the show (to me) was directed by Takuya Igarashi, who later went on to direct late night anime like Star Driver and Bungou Stray Dogs.

>I kinda agree with the late night thing thay's why people think all anime is Eromanga Sensei.
Eromanga-sensei has good direction/storyboarding and production quality.

>Sooner or later delusions can affect their perception of reality thus making their moral stances polluted.
Saitou Tamaki is a practising psychiatrist who wrote the book Beautiful Fighting Girl, where he concluded that otaku are sexually normal and make a clear separation between fantasy and reality.

>Miyazaki killed little girls and when the cops went into his flat for investigation, they found anime child porn that's why the stigma exists.
The stigma emerged because of the media coverage that latched onto the "otaku" label, and Miyazaki was just one guy and no different from for example the Columbine shooters who were Doom fans.

>Sadly the community in Japan didn't do jack shit on improving their image.
The image of otaku has already improved. It's Westerners who are still stuck in the early 90s, and evidently plan to stay there forever.

>Go read a book on manufacturing.
We are not talking about manufacturing.

>Yes you are.
Prove it.

>That at least gives the fans the knowledge that Stacey knows their existence.
And?

>>36695864
Ok i will give you that. It's not exceptionally amazing or anything but i remember thinking it wasn't that bad cause it didn't suffer from the plague that is Japanese humor that the overwhelming majority do.

>>36695958
>It's not exceptionally amazing
It is, Guts's character development rivals live action TV.

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56KB, 284x284px

>>36695278

Correct, I offer nothing and take what I want.

Yeah, I'll do that because I highly respect and value your opinion. kek

People despise what they cannot attain.

Your ornery disposition betrays your discontent life.

>>36692380
How do anti-anime fags explain shit like how normies love Akira, Spirited Away, and Ghost in the Shell

>>36695998
I'm very content with my life as it is actually.

>>36695809
You can feel moe towards any character for any reason, and you can't necessarily know what the author was intending with their work.

Moe is a useless word that has done nothing but harm.

>>36695857
You call it fanservice because you think it's there just for the sake of the fans and the creator has no personal interest in the matter. I already established that this is not how things work in Japan.

>You seem to think it's part-and-parcel of larger Machiavellian schemes by suits to fleece an audience for quick cash.
That's exactly what it means.

>But even if I had to take the argument under your terms, would you seriously be confident enough to claim that, beyond a doubt, absolutely NO disingenuous pandering has been undertaken by somebody involved within the anime industry at one time or another?
That probably has been done, but if you are going to accuse someone of doing it you need evidence. I've never seen anyone prove even a single case of pandering.

>They exist, I've seen them.
Well I haven't, and every time someone is accused of being one the accusation is obviously groundless. For all intents and purposes weeaboos do not exist.

>>36692380
Why do people get upset at other people who like things they don't appreciate?

>>36696021

Yes, It's very possible to be content in your own misery... I'll give you that.

>>36696077
Do all /pol/ users make wide assumptions or is it just you?

>>36696040
>You call it fanservice because you think it's there just for the sake of the fans and the creator has no personal interest in the matter
Absolutely fucking not, I never said that at all. What difference does it make if the creator has a vested interest in the work or not?

>That's exactly what it means
Well that's this conversation over, then. As soon as you budge from your myopic definition fitted to suit your argument, you'll fall to pieces.

>That probably has been done, but if you are going to accuse someone of doing it you need evidence.
I don't need a fucking thing, you've just said as much: "That probably has been done". That's all I needed.

>Well I haven't, and every time someone is accused of being one the accusation is obviously groundless.
Here's more of your all-or-none autism. So you'll at least begrudgingly admit that weeaboos might exist, then?

>>36696103
I'm not that guy, but you're on /r9k/. It's not an unfair assumption.

>>36695955
> >Miyazaki killed little girls and when the cops went into his flat for investigation, they found anime child porn that's why the stigma exists.
> The stigma emerged because of the media coverage that latched onto the "otaku" label, and Miyazaki was just one guy and no different from for example the Columbine shooters who were Doom fans.

Okay but the effect of what the media did still lingers to this day that's why Akihabara is kind of in panic mode as 2020 draws near.

> >Sadly the community in Japan didn't do jack shit on improving their image.
> The image of otaku has already improved. It's Westerners who are still stuck in the early 90s, and evidently plan to stay there forever.

You meant mid to late 90s.

> >Yes you are.
> Prove it.

You have been defending anime watchers all this time without acknowledging that the statements others throw at you might have some bits of truth in it.

> >That at least gives the fans the knowledge that Stacey knows their existence.
> And?
That gives them imteraction. Something 2D girls do not give.


I'm just curious, why are you vehemently defending anime on a post that's made to trigger people like you? I'm watching anime too (though not as much now, the only show I watch is Crayon Shin-chan and I'm planning to watch Kemono Friends) but I'm not as pissy pants as you are.

>>36696103

I only speak for myself never /pol/ but you're the one who assume to be arbiter of what is and is not valued here, however you've no personal army and your vocabulary is as elementary as your insults...

>>36696112
>What difference does it make if the creator has a vested interest in the work or not?
It's the difference between fanservice and not fanservice.

>As soon as you budge from your myopic definition fitted to suit your argument, you'll fall to pieces.
It's the definition nearly everyone uses.

>That's all I needed.
It doesn't prove anything.

>So you'll at least begrudgingly admit that weeaboos might exist, then?
Maybe you can find them somewhere if you go out of your way to look, but for all intents and purposes they don't exist.

>>36696136
>Okay but the effect of what the media did still lingers to this day
Mostly in the West. Things have changed in Japan.

>You meant mid to late 90s.
I meant the early 90s.

>You have been defending anime watchers all this time without acknowledging that the statements others throw at you might have some bits of truth in it.
That's not what weeaboo means, and nobody has to acknowledge that someone's statements have some bits of truth in them. Because maybe they don't.

>That gives them imteraction. Something 2D girls do not give.
And? Can you get to the point already, if you have one?

>I'm just curious, why are you vehemently defending anime on a post that's made to trigger people like you?
Why are you so vehemently attacking it? Why is it that nowadays it's taken for granted that you can attack anime 24/7 if you so please, but anyone who defends it is doing something wrong or dubious and has to be questioned on his motives?

>>36696186
I'm willing to bet you spend most of your free-time watching Stephen Fry interviews on Youtube.

>>36695944
>>36695975

Serious answer: That's a stupid question, i think it's safe to say no one has conducted a study to see whether weebs are intellectually dishonest or not, so i can't give you a direct tangible answer.
This isn't something you can measure and obviously it's somewhat subjective so you might even say "it's just a different opinion man" but i believe that's such a shitty cop out thing to say because there's clearly a consensus on what's good storytelling and what's not. I mean like if Morgan Freeman was wearing nothing but a thong throughout the entire movie in Shawshank Redemption and still wants to taken seriously, you would find that odd and consider it "bad" storytelling, right?
Anime is filled with such oddities that i find it very difficult to believe a lot of people would enjoy it.

>>36696215

There's fan service in Berserker?

>>36696186
>what is and is not valued here
Every single big board on 4chan despises /pol/, they're not valued outside of their respective board.
I don't need a personal army to prove that.

>>36696215
>Anime is filled with such oddities
Examples?

Oh wait, you haven't watched any, have you?
Good day.

Anime is terrible and most shit normies watch is terrible too. Yeah there are better ways to spend your time but anyone who posts on 4chan has no room to cast stones there

>>36696197
>It's the difference between fanservice and not fanservice.
And? Pandering, as you've said yourself before, might as well be as broad as to take into consideration things like cars and buses.

>It's the definition nearly everyone uses
I'll take a leaf from your book here: Prove it.

>It doesn't prove anything
You're the one who claimed there was no pandering in anime, but your only evidence to back this claim up is a lack of trying on the behalf of the people you've been arguing with apparently. Though i can understand, as soon as I post something gratuitous, you'll simply handwave it away as "not enough proof", even though I've displayed beyond a fucking doubt that pandering is anywhere and fucking everywhere.

>Maybe you can find them somewhere if you go out of your way to look, but for all intents and purposes they don't exist
What intents and purposes do these people find themselves useful for, beyond being a punching bag for cynical, higher-tier hiki-NEETs on imageboards? Also thank you for admitting you were wrong. It probably took a lot for you to do.

>>36696264
>Anime is terrible
Anime has won Oscars

>>36696197
Too lazy to quote here but my point is that nothing can replace human interaction bro even if Japan has created virtual waifus.

Also, I'm attacking it because I see something wrong with the industry. I know there are good shows here and there but there are studios that still think it's the early 2000s and they don't improve their storylines.

Don't you think that the current scene can be better?

>>36696215
>there's clearly a consensus on what's good storytelling and what's not
A Western consensus. Then there's the fact that people routinely attack anime for things that also occur in Western media or aren't even regarded as problems to begin with. People like movies such as John Wick and The Naked Gun for example, but when it comes to anime they're always demanding serious, realistic, mature stories with psychologically complex, morally conflicted characters and mindblowing plot twists, and pretend that anime doesn't have any of that while all Western media has them.

>>36696267
>Pandering, as you've said yourself before, might as well be as broad as to take into consideration things like cars and buses.
That's not what I said.

>I'll take a leaf from your book here: Prove it.
Prove it how? Do you think I've recorded every argument I've ever had on the topic on every site I've had it on? You're just either being disingenuous here or have no experience on the matter.

>You're the one who claimed there was no pandering in anime
It doesn't literally mean that no such thing could possibly exist, it means nobody has ever proven it exists, not even a single solitary case. Even as everyone claims that it's an epidemic and happens all the time. So practically speaking, it does not exist. People say it does, but they can never prove even a single case.

>I've displayed beyond a fucking doubt that pandering is anywhere and fucking everywhere
No you haven't.

>Also thank you for admitting you were wrong.
I did no such thing. Stop lying.

>>36696291
>my point is that nothing can replace human interaction
And this is relevant to this thread because...?

>there are studios that still think it's the early 2000s and they don't improve their storylines
It's not the "studios" that come up with the storylines.

Anime seems to trigger my loneliness/depression, some times just seeing pictures does it.

Anime is terrible and ruins your life.
If you want a better life just stop watching anime.

>>36696291
People have been saying what you've been saying for... fuck, decades maybe?

That's just how Japan is. For every Bebop or whatever, there's a heap of shit packed into every season.

>>36696205

Well save yourself the loss cuz I had to google who that even way.... but I do recognize the face.

Go run along and play with children your own size... this is petty on your behalf and you simply do not have the mental fortitude or capacity to pose any kind of threat.

You will find no further validation here beyond the fact that I was kind enough to reply.

You are attempting to leech my time, keystrokes and attention.

Go and sort yourself out boy and come back to me once you've something equivalent to a post secondary Degree or Diploma.... and no a GED does not count.

Toodles ;*

>>36696284
Anime MOVIES did.
No animr TV SERIES has won the Emmys yet.

>>36695857
I think we don't really disagree too much then. I just think the word 'pandering' is a bit of a buzzword tainted by people using it to criticise things they're not really engaged with.

For instance, this season I might describe stuff like Eromanga Sensei in this way. It appeals to otaku in superficial ways (e.g. lots of references to other anime, shitting on One Piece and using the word 'riajuu', etc.) without really having much substance. However, I generally avoid calling it 'pandering' because the word is overused by outsiders and implies that a) the author doesn't actually like this shit and is just doing it to cynically attract fans, which I know for a fact is wrong (see: Oreimo) or b) I'm annoyed by 'fanservice' or something. It's more that it's a cute junk food show.

>>36696040
>You can feel moe towards any character for any reason, and you can't necessarily know what the author was intending with their work.
Come on now. There's clearly an aesthetic that predominates in terms of what moe means and what causes moe to be felt. Moreover, it's a cash cow and plenty of authors obviously try to fit their characters into archetypes that correspond to what they and their fans find moe. It's not a useless word. It's precise and descriptive. No one thinks SnK or something is a moe show even though people may feel moe for a character in it. It's been nearly twenty years since moe started to appear in otaku circles and everyone knows broadly what it constitutes and the archetypes embodied by it. As a fan, it is much more accurate a term than slice-of-life in describing the stories, the characters, and the style that I like in otaku-oriented media.

>>36696236
"I found this one in a million anime that doesn't conform to the same problems as the overwhelming majority"
I've already stated that Berserk is in my "not that bad" anime list
Here's the full list
Berserk
Black Lagoon
Cowboy Bebop
Death Note up until that annoying squeqy female character
and ..uhm that's it i think

>>36696382
Because much of the great shows are obscure as fuck?

If The Tatami Galaxy was American, it would have won emmys.
If 91 Days was American it would have won emmys.

>>36696409
>Berserk
>anime

Solid tip that you have no clue what you're talking about.

Also the fact that you just mention shit that everyone has seen is a reason to ignore you.

>>36696340
It's relevant because there are people who would rather "fug" anime girls than.improve themselves and be a reproducing member of society and this board being /r9k/, most people here need that.

Sorry but anime sometimes can be the cause of a person to withdraw from the real world.

>>36696237

Yes, yes, so apparently I speak only for myself but you however speak on behalf of all 4chan .... wonderful you've voted yourself into the office for President of 4chan... all the best with that... anyways move along now and go bother someone else for spare change.... ;*

There are zero differences between good and bad things. You moron. You fucking imbicile.

>>36696409

>Hasn't watched Angel Egg

You're literally not allowed to have opinions on Anime

>>36696458
>Sorry but anime sometimes can be the cause of a person to withdraw from the real world.
So can video games
and film
and TV

>>36696340
>You're just either being disingenuous here or have no experience on the matter
So your word is as good as you tell me it is? Fair enough, it isn't worth much at all then. But let's suppose you're right anyway: even if what you claim is true, that pandering is used within the context/connotations of what you've said, does that preclude the definition I've derived from the topic and resultant discussions?

>it means nobody has ever proven it exists, not even a single solitary case
Well not by your esteemed definition of the word, no. You'd ask for definitive proof that companies are producing low-quality work for the express purpose of exploiting an audience, and you'd ask me to conflate this (frankly incredulous) conspiracy with whatever subjective analysis I could derive from one of any examples of fanservice I could conjure up to aid my point (which is moot in the first place, considering your narrow definition of the word we're arguing over in the first place).

>I did no such thing
>>36696197
>Maybe you can find them somewhere if you go out of your way to look, but for all intents and purposes they don't exist.
Sorry, but you did for all intents and purposes "Maybe you can find them somewhere" and "they don't exist" doesn't wash in my book.

>>36696431
...or maybe because the Emmy Awards doesn't have the global reach as the Oscars had so it's limited to the US.

I'm sure Japan has an equivalent of the Emmys and maybe some anime have made it on the award winning list

>>36696381
Fuck off with your Peterson speak, that cuck got nailed by Harris twice and you fanboys still buy his every word (ironically, the last thing he'd want any of you to do kek)

Should I watch Vampire Knights?

>>36696479
> So can video games
> and film
> and TV

Video games and TV I can take that but I never heard of someone being withdrawn to the outsode world for watching movies.

>>36696551

You've never lived in Europe

>>36696551
You haven't lived. There are plenty of cinephiles all over, check out /tv/ and the comments sections under RedLetterMedia videos.

>>36696516
What I'm saying is that TTG had good enough writing and direction that it would've beaten out every other animated show in the Emmy's if it was made by Americans.

>>36696551
There are people on Letterbox and /tv/ who do nothing in their lives but watch obscure films to validate themselves.

>>36696616
Autists wee always going to find something useless to do with their time, why not let them have anime?

I'm 27 and watch anime to spiritually connect with a growing subculture of despondent young men who are sufffering under shitty economic and sexual markets

>>36696409
Holy shit nigger, that's entry level.

>>36696340
That goes into a far deeper philosophical question about subjectivity and objectivity. Are there wrong opinions and reasoning or is everyone's reasoning valid?
Here in the west there's such a concept as "show, don't tell" that is ingrained in western literture or cinema that we believe it's essential to crafting a good story, where as eastern story telling specifically anime and jap vidya is bloated with unnecessary dialogue and over-explanation.
Do you believe both are equally valid techniques even though one is "proven" to be better than the other that we consider it a rule and teach it in schools?

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>>36692380
I honestly don't understand how someone who isn't mentally subnormal can enjoy soccer. It's legitimately a sign of retardation. Can a normalfag please explain to me the appeal?

You can rephrase it and apply it to anything really. I genuinely don't get football though.

>>36696386
>Come on now. There's clearly an aesthetic that predominates in terms of what moe means and what causes moe to be felt.
Evangelion is one of the biggest moe phenomena ever. Fate/stay night, Monogatari and Sword Art Online have very popular characters too.

>Moreover, it's a cash cow and plenty of authors obviously try to fit their characters into archetypes that correspond to what they and their fans find moe.
>t's been nearly twenty years since moe started to appear in otaku circles and everyone knows broadly what it constitutes and the archetypes embodied by it.
Moe is subjective, not objective.

>It's precise and descriptive.
It must be one of the least precise, least descriptive words I've ever encountered. Nobody knows what it means, nobody agrees on what it means. The only thing people agree on is that moe is basically the anti-christ. It has done catastrophic, irreversible damage to the Western understanding of anime.

>>36692553
Come on anon, alcohol is pretty straightforward.

Akira
Ghost in the Shell anthology
Cowboy Bebop
Samurai Champloo
Vampire Hunter D
Vampire Hunter D Bloodlust
Blood the last vampire
Vampire Hunter D
Read or Die
Paranoia Agent
Macross
Macross Plus
Patlabor
Grave of Fireflies
Barefoot Gen.
Ninja Scroll
Beserk
Perfect blue
Cat Soup Nekojiru
Tekkonkinkreet
Genius Party
Genshiken
Battle Angel
Devilman
Mind Games
Angels Egg
Castle in the Sky
Princess Mononoke
Spirited Away
Howl's Moving Castle

....These works are works of art beyond most hollywood blockbusters, they deal with highly advanced ideas story line and plots

Your incomprehension as to the value of this art form is irrelevant to it's cultural value.

Your opinion is that of the pleb-layman who walks into an art gallery and says "I don't get it!?"

Your confusion and bedazzlement does not conclude the value of the artform but rather, it betrays your lack in capacity to grasp the depth of this Artform which does not require your approval.

You are either a troll or a simpleton. In either or other case

You've no ground to stand on other than your personal bias.

Good bye now ;*

>>36696409
How convinient that all the "good" anime people name just happen to also be the most well-known anime.

>>36696458
>Sorry but anime sometimes can be the cause of a person to withdraw from the real world.
It's not a cause, it's an effect.

>>36696497
>Even if what you claim is true, that pandering is used within the context/connotations of what you've said, does that preclude the definition I've derived from the topic and resultant discussions?
Yes, and your definition is also redundant. If pandering is this completely normal, universal and inescapable thing that exists in everything, why even talk about it? And why are so many people going around angrily accusing things of pandering if your definition is what they're using?

>Well not by your esteemed definition of the word, no.
It is THE definition.

>Sorry, but you did
Again, I didn't. Again, stop lying.

>>36696831
"Show, don't tell" is a guideline, and exposition is a technique. Both have their place and both can be used poorly. Both are used in Western media and anime. People don't acknowledge it happens in Western media though.

>>36696532

kek I guess you didn't hear the second interview with Sam Harris... and yes I also read Harris.

Yeah call me more bad names maybe if you try the same shit over and over again it might eventually work... kek

>>36694014
I watched DxD for the plot and I'm not even kidding. Issei's combat scenes were fun.

The female character design was pretty bad, so the badly drawn boobs didn't have much appeal to me.

>>36697160
Thanks for all those animes, been searching for some good ones

>>36697302

Thank you aswell, I'm happy to help spread the knowledge

>>36697183.
Stop this memeing, eastern media(anime and vidya) is a far worse abuser of exposition and breacher of the show don't tell rule. Even the most die hard anime fags admit this though they try to rationalize it.

>>36697051
>Evangelion is one of the biggest moe phenomena ever. Fate/stay night, Monogatari and Sword Art Online have very popular characters too.
That's because they all use generic tropes and elements of moe. No one thinks those show are purely moe except *maybe* Monogatari and parts of Fate/stay night; however, they clearly incorporate those components of moe character, story, and art style to such an extent that it is meaningful. The characters in all those shows that are considered moe share those characteristics. Asuka and Rin are both obviously modelled on a similar archetype, for instance. Evangelion and Fate/stay night are very different overall, but on the level of these bishoujo archetypes, they're very similar.

>Moe is subjective, not objective.
>least precise, least descriptive
>The only thing people agree on is that moe is basically the anti-christ.
Only idiots like Zac Bertschy think moe is the anti-christ, and what it means is how people use it. And people use it to describe a subset of shows and characters with very obvious common characteristics. I can talk about moe in reference to Strike Witches and Kanon and Nanoha and Gochiusa because they are all beholden to specific generic elements that are collectively termed moe. No one is confused by this usage and it is precise. It doesn't describe the mecha elements of Nanoha nor the slice-of-life elements of Gochiusa. It describes the way characters are designed and developed in both of those shows.

>>36697524
*the characters that are considered moe in all those shows

misleading word order

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>>36697511
Also i don't know why you try to draw a distinction between exposition and "show don't tell" by saying one is a technique and the other is a guideline when that can be used interchangeably to describe both concepts.

>>36697511
Maybe it is, but it's not like excessive exposition is the only thing that can go wrong with writing, and it's not like the West isn't full of books, movies, shows and games that get slammed for bad writing.

>>36697524
>That's because they all use generic tropes and elements of moe
Moe has no tropes or elements.

>No one thinks those show are purely moe except *maybe* Monogatari and parts of Fate/stay night
No show is moe, and that wasn't the point. The point was that those characters are very popular. That's moe.

Archetypes are a generic feature of fiction and have nothing in particular to do with moe, anime or Japanese media in general.

>Only idiots like Zac Bertschy think moe is the anti-christ, and what it means is how people use it.
The vast majority of people hate moe, whatever they think it means. It's consistenly invoked as a great evil that has killed anime.

>And people use it to describe a subset of shows and characters with very obvious common characteristics
That's what they think they're doing. In reality they're lumping Girls und Panzer, K-On, Hibike, Madoka and Kanon together as if they were all the same thing, which they're not. Moe is not a genre.

>No one is confused by this usage and it is precise.
Just because someone thinks they aren't confused doesn't mean they aren't.

>>36697628
Writers are generally told "show, don't tell," but it's just a guideline and not a rule. You shouldn't always show just like you shouldn't always tell.

>>36697725
Well obviously it should be done in moderation that goes without saying. Still a rule though.

>>36697695
>Moe has no tropes or elements.
Yes it does. Obviously it does. Deliberate and consistent use of moe characteristics are used multiple shows that have nothing else in common. Meganekko, tsundere, maids, fangs, you name it. That's not even getting into the construction of character storyline e.g. Key-style tragic girls vs. Fate Testarossa. These are deliberate generic choices that are meant to be moe.

>The point was that those characters are very popular. That's moe.
And shows that lean heavily on moe archetypes are moe shows.

>Archetypes are a generic feature of fiction and have nothing in particular to do with moe, anime or Japanese media in general.
Archetypes are contextual elements of genre. Archetypes of Shakespearean tragedy are completely different from moe archetypes.

>In reality they're lumping Girls und Panzer, K-On, Hibike, Madoka and Kanon together as if they were all the same thing, which they're not.
No one thinks they're the same. Did you even read my post? It is precisely describing generic elements of all those those things *unrelated* to other generic elements.

>It's consistenly invoked as a great evil that has killed anime.
by irritating normalfags and Cowboy Bebop fans, yes.

>>36697847
*found across multiple shows

>>36697695
Oh no i agree with you, western media is filled with bad writing, i will even go as far as to say most vidya, movies and books are a victim of bad writing it's only the handful few that are good.
But even the best anime i have seen doesn't climb the same heights as a mediocre western book, movie, or whatever. Anime is an equivalent of a b-movie in the west.

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>>36692380
>he watches Hollywood brainwashing

good goy

>>36697847
Some people find those traits appealing. Some don't. Or it depends on the character. The traits themselves are not moe, they may just trigger a feeling of moe in the viewer. Many of the things I like are never cited as supposed moe traits, because they aren't stereotypical stuff like tsundere and maids. Then there's the fact that someone can include supposedly moe characters in their works without even knowing or caring anything about what's supposed to be a moe character, or they're creating something for a child audience.

Moe existed decades before anyone came up with a word to describe it. Hayao Miyazaki said he fell in love with a character from the 1950s movie Hakujaden when he was young. That was moe. Then other people went on to fall in love with his characters, like Clarisse from Cagliostro.

It's complete nonsense to treat moe as something that exists objectively.

>Archetypes of Shakespearean tragedy are completely different from moe archetypes.
It's not that neatly compartmentalized, especially when Shakespeare has been so massively influential. The billion character types that TVTropes has documented or invented have examples from all over the place.

>No one thinks they're the same.
If two things are called moe, that means they're the same thing. Or rather, the same pandering otakubait shit for virgin NEET pedophiles. This is how the vast majority of people think. This is how moe is normally used.

>by irritating normalfags and Cowboy Bebop fans, yes.
By nearly everyone, including many people who frequent places like /a/, Tohnochan and Sankaku Complex.

>>36698028
>But even the best anime i have seen doesn't climb the same heights as a mediocre western book, movie, or whatever. Anime is an equivalent of a b-movie in the west.
Complete nonsense.

>>36697220
>Sam Harris
he's a fucking bullshit lover too, he belongs with the other attention whores

>>36698085
>It's complete nonsense to treat moe as something that exists objectively.
What you've described is the creation of genre. All genre is retrospective. No one decides to create a genre. They are labeled this way retrospectively, hence why genre and its components are fluid. The word 'tsundere' did not exists when Evangelion was written, but it doesn't mean Asuka isn't one. Miyazaki was instrumental in inculcating moe in anime, and today moe obviously refers to a collection of generic elements that dumbass Takeuchi is clearly reaching into when he chooses to dress up his kinpatsu genderswapped King Arthur in a maid outfit. On the topic of that database, Tamaki Saito and Hiroki Azuma have written a lot about this sort of thing, but the consensus is that they are specific, deliberate, and generic, selected from a database of moe elements that otaku like.

>Archetypes
Archetypes exist to serve specific role in a story, usually within a genre. TVTropes doesn't really account for that. No one thinks Cordelia is a moe archetype because that isn't her role in the story.

>the same pandering otakubait shit for virgin NEET pedophiles.
It's only used this way by people who don't like moe. The difference is significant. Moe as a pejorative is not the same as moe as a descriptive term. No one thinks Kanon and Girls und Panzer are the same thing overall, but they're both moe. People who lump them together to hate them are not the same as people who would watch both but wouldn't watch a show about tanks without bishoujo archetypes.

>By nearly everyone, including many people who frequent places like /a/, Tohnochan and Sankaku Complex.
Even if this were true and not just a vocal contingent, lots of people insisting something doesn't make it true. Inane moe-bashing was a fad that came ten years too late in the West and largely died out after it become obvious that shitty navel-gazing blog posts about the moe decadence weren't going to change anything.

>>36698662
Moe isn't a genre and has no generic elements. It's only a feeling a viewer may or may not have. Who is even supposed to decide which specific elements qualify as moe and which don't, and based on what? And what is the point?

Azuma supposed that various character traits make up a moe database and used as an example a site where you can search for characters based on specific features. In actuality such a database, like Danbooru today, simply lists all possible traits for the purpose of letting you find whatever you're looking for (no different from a movie database like IMDB). If a new trait is developed, it goes into the database along with everything else. They aren't moe traits, they are just traits that are in the database simply because they exist. The rest depends on the observer.

If some traits are objectively moe then that creates a situation where you cannot use certain traits if you decide you don't want to make moe characters. Glasses? No, that's moe now. Twin tails? Forget about it. Maids? Don't even go there. A seemingly emotionless girl? Sorry, that's taken. A cute little sister? That's property of Moe, Inc. Who exactly decided that all of these things are now owned by otaku? On what authority? What if I don't think something is moe? What if the thing I think is moe is not listed anywhere as an official moe product?

>It's only used this way by people who don't like moe.
Which includes most people.

Maybe things are different in Japan, but in the West moe is a completely toxic term. If you say something is moe you are saying "this is shit and completely interchangeable with anything else that's called moe" regardless of what you think moe means. That's how people interpret it, and nobody can change that without inventing a time machine and altering history.

>>36699273
But even good animes have moe characters. Is the medium itself not completely flawed?

>>36699355
There are no moe characters. Moe is only a feeling you have towards a character. But instead of blathering on about moe people could just say they like a character, that's the same thing but without the stupid unnecessary word.

>>36699273
>Who is even supposed to decide which specific elements qualify as moe and which don't, and based on what?
It's a collaborative process. Genre exists because of replicable generic elements in stories. If thousands of people are watching something because of those elements, they need something to call it, so you end up with genre. Moe is one such genre. To repeat the example, I do not want to watch an anime about tanks or guns, but I will watch Girls und Panzer and Upotte!! It is useful for fans and creators to delineate this, especially in an industry where the two are so overlapping. People want to play with re-contextualise their favourite moe characters (hence the thousands of cute girl art club/gun club/lesbian club anime).

>They aren't moe traits, they are just traits that are in the database simply because they exist.
That's not what it means. These traits are replicable and deliberately used because they are considered to be moe by creators and consumers. Again, Takeuchi likes maids and so do many otaku, so they share a collaborative moe experience.

>If some traits are objectively moe then that creates a situation where you cannot use certain traits if you decide you don't want to make moe characters.
If you don't see the difference between just a girl with glasses and Mirai from Kyoukai no Kanata, or a little sister (which Cordelia technically is in King Lear) vs. the deliberately designed moe character like Kirino, Sagiri, etc. I don't know what to say? They are obviously made to reflect particular tastes and combine various elements considered to be moe in their design and character development. I'm sure there are people who consider characters outside of moe anime to be moe because there is no absolutely perfect way of classifying genre, but the practice of deliberately seeking out, replicating and obsessing over these identifiable generic traits is very easy to spot in an industry that is clearly saturated with moe.

>>36699661
>It's a collaborative process.
Too bad this process is nowhere to be seen. All moe means in the West is shit. Shit that's all the same and killed anime.

Girls und Panzer is sports. Long Riders is sports. K-On is slice of life (or alternatively comedy). Madoka is magical girl. Kanon is drama. Hibike is drama. These shows already have genres, which are very easily understood aside from SoL. When you add "moe" into the mix you are just fucking everything up and accomplishing nothing.

>These traits are replicable and deliberately used because they are considered to be moe by creators and consumers.
Anything can be considered moe, and something you think is supposed to be moe will not be considered moe by everyone. So anything may or may not be a moe trait, which means the concept has no meaning. You are also just assuming when you see something that you've designated a moe trait that it must have been put there deliberately for the purpose of making viewers feel moe, which is not necessarily the case.

>If you don't see the difference...
Well what is the difference? Some Precure characters have glasses, and they are cute characters. But they're also in shows made for elementary school girls. The heroine of Kyoukai no Rinne has twintails and looks like any other anime character, but she is in a daytime show based on a popular manga. And surely her deadpan personality falls under some supposedly moe archetype.

>They are obviously made to reflect particular tastes and combine various elements considered to be moe in their design and character development.
A much more simple explanation is that they are just designed to be cute/attractive/interesting/cool and to reflect the qualities of the character. "Moe" does not need to factor into this at all.

>>36700194
>this process is nowhere to be seen
It has been going on for over twenty years since otaku began to obsess over cute girl characters.

>All moe means in the West is shit.
I don't care what moe means to most Westerners. No one even knew what it was before Haruhi even though the shift from robots to bishoujo began in the '80s.

>When you add "moe" into the mix you are just fucking everything up and accomplishing nothing.
No, because people watch these shows specifically because they are moe. Otaku who likes Kanon do not necessarily like a dramatic soap opera or a sad movie. They like the bishoujo characters. This is especially true for VNs since they are the source of most of what we call moe and focus heavily on developing a range of cute bishoujo heroines. Kanon is moe in addition to being drama, and that distinction is important to otaku who don't want to watch things that aren't moe.

>You are also just assuming when you see something that you've designated a moe trait that it must have been put there deliberately for the purpose of making viewers feel moe, which is not necessarily the case.
You can't seriously believe this. You just argued accurately that creators of anime aren't trying to 'pander' or fleece consumers with sexual content because they like it themselves. It's the same thing. Otaku became attracted to moe characters as the industry developed and entered into it to replicate them. This, incidentally, is why Miyazaki hates them, somewhat ironically since he was a big influence on the development. Tamaki Saito once described him as essentially a neurotic who couldn't help recreating these cute girl characters and yet couldn't ever accept this attraction in himself.

>A much more simple explanation
This explanation is wrong. The guy who wrote Oreimo also wrote Eromanga Sensei because he likes little sister moe. No one just does this without context, and it is more succinct to say he's a siscon or has little sister moe. Hence, precise.

Anime is basic entertainment, ine shouldn't really stick to any lohic. Otherwise people would not watch big brother or shit like this, as this is pure bs and anime may teach lessons for life like friendship and stuff

>>36700757
Maybe it's going on somewhere in Japan, but not here. Not that it's any more acceptable just because the Japanese are doing it.

>I don't care what moe means to most Westerners.
If you want to talk about moe in a Western context you have no choice but to care.

>No, because people watch these shows specifically because they are moe.
You could just say it has/revolves around cute girl characters or bishoujo characters, instead of declaring it's part of the moe genre or a moe anime. Same thing, less problems.

>You can't seriously believe this.
I can and there's no reason why I wouldn't, and this is actually similar to pandering theory in that you are assuming the motives of creators, who don't necessarily share your vision of what moe means.

>This explanation is wrong. The guy who wrote Oreimo also wrote Eromanga Sensei because he likes little sister moe.
That doesn't contradict what I said, because I was talking about character design. Oreimo's author writing about little sisters isn't any different from Asimov writing about robots. It's just his interest.

Moe not describe anything that could not be easily described otherwise, but it has caused a devastating amount of damage that the West is unlikely to ever recover from. When a meme like moe is released into the wild, it will just keep spreading and bouncing around indefinitely due to the mechanisms of social media and the almost complete lack of resistance. You can philosophize all you want about what moe really is supposed to mean, but right now there are probably thousands of people on YouTube alone writing angry comments about moeshit killing anime.

>>36693858
>I agree on this one. It's just a video game for fuck's sake. There's nothing to be engaged at.

I actually enjoy e-sports, not sure if I'd call myself a big fan or anything though. I can relate to them more than normal sports because they're playing games that I play, but at an awe-inspiring level.

For what it's worth, I'm really only into competitive FPS, I find strategy and MOBA games boring to watch.

>>36701186
>If you want to talk about moe in a Western context you have no choice but to care.
I don't care because most of them don't know anything about the Japanese context for moe. I'm not going to say they're wrong to dislike it as it would be hypocritical, but I consider the use of 'moe' as a pejorative in a Western context to be separate from how the word is used by actual fans.

>Same thing, less problems.
No, because it's less succinct. It's like saying 'I like sport anime'. I like moe anime. Easy. I also like bishoujo characters, but they're more transferrable. I don't like sports anime, but I do like Girls und Panzer because it's moe.

>who don't necessarily share your vision of what moe means.
But they literally do. I'm not saying this from assumption. Read some interviews with these people man, they're all huge nerds who obsess over bishoujo characters. Point to any major creator of characters and works labeled moe: Takeuchi and his maids, Tsuzuki and his little girl kemono fechi, Maeda and his cute tragic girls, the list goes on. They are all like this. Miyazaki hates them because of it; his point was that anime is shit because it's otaku making anime for otaku.

>It's just his interest.
But why is it his interest? Because it's moe. I like little sister moe and so does he, so I enjoy his stuff, even though it's shallow as shit and tries way too hard to show off its otaku-ness.

>it has caused a devastating amount of damage that the West is unlikely to ever recover from
Come on. This isn't 2010. Most people have moved on, and with high profile e-celebs like Digibro who like moeshit around, it's just not the case anymore outside of worthless places like ANN. And who cares about them anyway? One of the things I've come to enjoy about moe anime is how much it upsets whiny entry-level teenagers who'll never get their sad little claws into any of it because they're overseas fans.

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>>36693048
>3d thinking they can compare to 2d
look at that disgusting whore

>>36701512
The supposed fans, 9 times out of 10, use it the same way. Moe nearly always means moeshit. It's inescapable.

>No, because it's less succinct.
Using a pedestrian crossing when the light is green is less fast than running across the street whenever. Doesn't mean you should do it.

>But they literally do. I'm not saying this from assumption. Read some interviews with these people man
I read a whole bunch in The Moe Manifesto. There's no agreement on what moe means.

>But why is it his interest? Because it's moe.
Anything can be moe to someone. The artist who did Teaching Feeling has a thing for weird monster girls and disfiguration. The artist behind Moetan does these over-the-top cutesy pastel-colored loli characters with big feet. Some artists are really into girls with guns. Any of these things may or may not be moe for someone else. It's all subjective and personal.

>Come on. This isn't 2010. Most people have moved on...
I've spent a lot of time digging around 4chan, 8-chan, YouTube, Reddit, MAL, ANN, AniDB, various random places. People have not moved on and show no signs of ever doing so. Digibro's comments are full of bitching and moaning about moe too. This is something that will kee replicating endlessly. There's always new people joining the bandwagon.

>>36701968
*doesn't mean you should run across

>>36701968
>Moe nearly always means moeshit
Moeshit is just a semi-ironic term used by fans as well as detractors. It doesn't say anything about the person's opinion.

>There's no agreement on what moe means.
I've read the Moe Manifesto too, and none of those interviewed consider moe to be limited as strictly as you do. People predominantly use it to describe genre elements like plot and character, not just a feeling. Maeda tends to focus on making sad plots with cute girls that evoke moe, whereas others just characterise them with moe elements.

>Teaching Feeling
> Moetan
I like both of these things. Hitomebore especially is pretty much a fairly typical moege with a one-eyed girl. Just because they are many kinds of moe doesn't make them not moe. Disfiguration and related interests is actually not an uncommon kind of moe, literally one the most well-known in the West thanks to Katawa Shoujo. It's a stone's throw from the more common sick/mentally-ill moe of Grisaia, Cross Channel, Key VNs, etc.

>People have not moved on and show no signs of ever doing so.
Why should I care about them? They have bad taste and no effect on the industry. Let them cry.

And they are definitely not in the same numbers they used to be. That's just plain false. You don't get the same endless stream of blogposts philosophising about how moe is causing the decline of anime like it was back in 2007-2011, mostly just randomers bitching in comments sections.

>>36702280
*characterise their cute girl characters

>>36702280
Anyone who uses the term is against moe as far as I'm concerned, and I was using it as a shorthand for being against moe.

>I've read the Moe Manifesto too, and none of those interviewed consider moe to be limited as strictly as you do.
I'm looking at the big picture. There's no consensus on what it means or if it's subjective or objective, and in the West it's almost exclusively a very vague and even more poorly defined pejorative. My definition is the lowest common denominator between all the different interpretations and probably the very original definition. And it's completely redundant. You don't need the word to say you're into a character (or a type of character, or a trait). You don't need it for anything. It's useless.

>Just because they are many kinds of moe doesn't make them not moe.
They are all moe, and that makes it meaningless. Anything may or may not be moe to someone. There's no authoritative list of things that are moe and things that are not moe.

>Why should I care about them?
If you go around talking about moe in or around the Western anime community, you are going to come in contact with those people, and they are not going to share your understanding of moe.

Moeshit being the cancer that killed/is killing anime doesn't have to be evangelized by bloggers, it has become common sense. Everyone knows it's true, and if you disagree with it you're treated like the village idiot. Blogging has also fallen by the wayside anyway, now it's all about YouTube.

Those randomers in the comments section are in every community and every place talking about anime. They are the Western anime community and the people peripheral to the Western anime community.

>>36702732
>Anyone who uses the term is against moe as far as I'm concerned,
I use it as a semi-ironic term for the shit I like and I know people who do the same.

>it's completely redundant
>They are all moe, and that makes it meaningless. Anything may or may not be moe to someone. There's no authoritative list of things that are moe and things that are not moe.
You are being obtuse. When people take about a genre, like tragedy, they'll use terms like 'catharsis'. But some people might not feel catharsis from a classical tragedy. Does that make subjective, redundant, worthless? Moe anime are anime that aim to make you feel moe with specific generic elements of plot and character. If Hitomebore was about a giant super-strong ugly cyclops woman smashing up a city like Godzilla, it wouldn't be moe. It's a small cute self-loathing schoolgirl with one eye and scars. The reader feels protective of her and wants to look after her, which is the moe equivalent of dramatic catharsis. It's a recipe for moe using generic elements that otaku like. Exceptional cases don't determine the consensus of what moe is, which is self-evident from what otaku produce and consume.

>Everyone knows it's true
This is just untrue. There are obviously loads of anime fans who predominantly like moe on this very site and if you don't see that you're blind. And as for the secondaries, I don't care about them. Anime is doing fine in the West, and even if it weren't, it doesn't need to. And personally, I have never thought moeshit was killing anime. That's a meme for people who grew up with Berserk and Cowboy Bebop as their models for anime.

>>36703136
*make it subjective...

>>36692380
There are all kindsof anime shows. I dont like all types of anime. There are just some pretty good anime shows out there and there seems to be more range inplot than with my American shows - like if I just search raound for a US show rn Id have less chance of hitting gold than if I searched anime or even J drama. Idk why or what creators here have against cool plots or are so restrictive. I cant even give examples so youre probably wondering what I mean.

>>36692380
i love that they are not afraid of using animation as a medium for people older then 3. In western mainstream cartoons are always geard towards children.

>>36693858
>I agree on this one. It's just a video game for fuck's sake. There's nothing to be engaged at.
What shallow thinking. There is no difference between being competetive in a video game and a physical sport.

>>36703136
Being ironic is a sign of insecurity and not wanting to really take something seriously. And when you pretend to be retards you'll soon be joined by people who think they're in good company.

>Moe anime are anime that aim to make you feel moe with specific generic elements of plot and character.
You're just assuming motives, and anything may or may not be moe to anyone. Anime was making viewers feel moe before the term existed and anyone was theorizing about it. Anime that fall outside the otaku sphere can make viewers feel moe. Something may seem like it was made to feel viewers moe even though it wasn't. Young female characters make viewers feel moe for the same reason young women make men feel the real world equivalent of moe. They don't exist for the sake of moe.

>There are obviously loads of anime fans who predominantly like moe on this very site and if you don't see that you're blind.
They're a tiny minority once you exclude all the people hiding behind ten layers of irony and memes who are just looking for something to masturbate to or argue over, and considering how completely and effortlessly 4chan has been overrun by people shouting about moeshit it's obvious there isn't all that much enthusiasm for moe here. Just like there isn't all that much enthusiasm for anime in any anime community.

I'm leaving now but my bottomline is that we don't need "moe" for anything and it has only caused catastrophic damage. It's just another abstraction, buzzword and label that prohibits people from clearly perceiving things as they are (e.g. Girls und Panzer is not "moe" or "moeshit," it's a sports and military anime starring high school girls). Nothing is gained from using the word and trying to shove things into boxes like "moe anime," "moe character" and "moe trait," and applying the word to obvious observations like people being into different kinds of characters.

File: mpv_screenshot0338.jpg (176KB, 1520x1080px) Image search: [Google]

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Not all anime is created equally.

File: mpv_screenshot0201.jpg (365KB, 1440x1080px) Image search: [Google]

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>>36704323
>this is 2deep for moefags

File: Screen Shot 2017-05-01 at 23.50.46.png (1MB, 1280x800px) Image search: [Google]

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>>36703839
>Being ironic is a sign of insecurity and not wanting to really take something seriously
FFS, that's a teenager's logic. It's a joke. I like to joke about my autistic hobbies. Fuck off with this.

>You're just assuming motives, and anything may or may not be moe to anyone
And you are not listening. You have not countered any example of a creator I have given you who has specifically said that they write bishoujo characters because of moe tropes. You are ignoring hundreds of anime, manga and VNs that rehash and reuse conventions over and over again in different ways because they and their fans like moe.

I can experience catharsis from my best friend surviving a car accident. That doesn't mean car accidents exist for the sake of catharsis. As it happens, we tend to call car accidents tragedies, and if you want real life moe, there's a real life industry for that too. They're called idols. Just watch a Japanese variety shows with idols as guests and watch them fit into cute archetypal roles. AKB48 even had a moe competition where they had them act out moe things. Pic related. Notice the character for 'moe' over the judge's faces at the bottom. There is a consensus over what moe is.

>Girls und Panzer is not "moe" or "moeshit," it's a sports and military anime starring high school girls
This is so ridiculous, mostly because you don't even understand that this show is *first and foremost* a moe show for otaku who may happen to like military and sports as well. If this show focused only on the sports or military aspect without any bishoujo characters, it wouldn't have half the audience it does know. These things are not mutually exclusive, and in fact I informally term shows like GuP, Strike Witches, Kancolle and Upotte!! moe militarism, as it's a common gimmick.

>They're a tiny minority
Now you're the one making the assumptions. It's pretty obviously from the threads that get traffic on /a/ that not all these people are being ironic.

>>36692380
if you don't like this you're GAY AS FUCK

>>36704485
*half the audience it does now

>>36704517
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=km2OPUctni4

I forgot, again. feg