He's not Anarchosocialist... >the state is a crutch

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>>36672596
FUCK OFF COMMIES THIS IS MY SAFE SPACE TO FEEL LIKE A PATHETIC PIECE OF SHIT WITH OTHER PATHETIC PIECES OF SHIT OUT OUT OUT REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE GET OUT REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

originally this post has been

saged

>>36672596
fock off with politics you fucking leech

>>36672596
>objective established "moral growth" without the given oppression of organized religion
KEKEKEKEKEKEK
NEVER EVER GOING TO HAPPEN

literally read fucking Stirner or Nietzsche once, morals are spooks and people won't have them unless a state/religion requires them to

>>36672596
how much of a brainlet do you need to be to fall for not only socialism but for anarchism aswell

>>36672778
yeah, doesnt this asshole know that r9k thinks that everyone needs to work 10 hours a day? retard

>>36672596
you own yourself and your actions.

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>>36672596
HALT COMMUNIST SCUM! THIS IS A /pol/ BOARD, CEASE YOUR FAGGOTRY!

>>36672596
Be honest guys, are you just cringing at the word 'anarchy' because you associate it with edgy teens? It's literally the partisan, long-term thinker's choice. Anyone who wants the state either

a) doesn't understand what the state is and where the state's power comes from
b) knows they cannot compete in a free market

The socialist should help the weaklings at b. But that's only possible in a thriving, benevolent society that can support those who are unsuited the environment (and has the moral education to do so without frustration).

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>>36672596
hang yourself commie

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Anarchism is for retards, do you honestly expect no government to step up? There will be communities that elect a leader by choice, and communities will merge and create societies of people that aren't retards who WANT a government and then we'll be back to now, why do you think we have governments now? Because it's human nature to elect a leader. If you want anarchy, then go live in Somalia.
Also, the only way socialism/communism can work is if there's someone forcing you to share, like do you actually think that everyone's just gonna share? Fuck no, that's not how it's gonna work. That's just how humans work.
tl;dr OP is a faggot

>>36672970
>create societies of people that aren't retards who WANT a government
Governments arise as such

>moral education poor/huge dispaity in education and intelligence levels
>intelligent and moral minority excel in society (contrary to popular belief morals are conducive to long-term success)
>idiot majority concentrates power in small number of people o fight back (((inequality)))
>state rises and steals from rich minority for (((welfare)))

>>36672809
State should be there to implement morals and education. However, the State should be CONSTANTLY reminded that it's end-goal is its own dissolvement not its longevity. Once moral and education levels are high enough, disband state and retain minimal socialist structures for the inevitable stragglers who we benevolently allow a place in our enlightened society.

>>36673206
>State should be there to implement morals and education.
>education
question for you: which school are better, private schools or public schools?

>>36673400
That's because the state has a vested interest in lower standards of education. As long as the people are dependent on welfare the state stays in power. A state geared towards dissolving itself would necessarily create better schools as the only way for the state to dissolve would be through increased education rate.

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>anarcho anything

>>36673539
competition in the free market leads to quality education everywhere. the fact that the public schools get funded no matter how badly they're doing is why public education is a disaster.

the government should only consist of a military, police and a court system.

>>36673206
>implying moral levels will actually STAY high after the church/state is no longer able to enforce them
unfortunately doesn't work like that

>>36673626
>scared of anarchy bogeyman because 2edgy4me
>responds to the only thread with a topic and argumentation supporting stance with meme arrows
>can only engage in memes

You're the reason the state exists. To protect us from people like you.

>>36673678
>implying the evolutionary basis for morality isn't in part conformity
>implying that someone would take the effort/risk to be bad if being good is both the norm and the socially expected

The biggest deterrance for crime isn't the law, it's social consequence. Military power is inherently weaker than social power.

>>36673985
Unfortunately the socially expected changes over time; compare today to 200 years ago. Without outside coercion from the state or church, do not expect a stable, coherent moral system.

>>36674106
And what makes a state immune to these vulnerabilities?

>>36674134
The Church - which is why a secular state is only as good as no state.
Only an objective, unquestionable, unchanging moral system, generally stemming from religion, is truly consistent. All other systems are extremely subject to dramatic shifts in social and moral expectations/norms.

im probably not gonna change your mind nor vice versa regardless of how long and autistic this gets so dont bother giving me any more (you)s

>>36674314
>suggests theocracy.

You're worse than OP. Are you memeing or is this the part where you get BTFO?

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>>36672596
>Anarchism
Fuck off m8. This shit doesn't work without a state.

>>36674429
>he psychologically craves a supreme daddy

I agree but you're a brainlet if can't see that everything which makes the state thrive is directly antagonistic to a thriving society.

The state should be seen as a crutch that must be slowly removed as mankind learns to walk on his own. The existence of the state necessarily implies that the society isn't fully stable yet (and will never be, progress is perpetual. which is why some socialist elements will always exist)

>>36673655
But what if I don't trust people. Personally I think it should 100% be illegal to teach your kids your religion.

The only way for me to feel safe leaving my door unlocked at night is if I know the person next door has been indoctrinated into jihading me.

>>36674765
if you don't trust people to do the good thing, then you sure as hell don't want a small elite of people in charge of the entire country. "people" includes the government, you know?

basic argumentation.

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>>36672596
>he's not an anarchoprimitivist

>>36675190
But if I'm part of that small elite than I would. You should really read Plato's Republic, I know it's baby's first philosophy-tier but the idea of guardians is pretty good.

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Anarcho anything is full retard

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>>36675255
>Being a garbage person
I'm all for simple, minimalist living but primitivism's reverence for "ye good ol days" is a turn off.

public ownership of property is a spook

>>36675576
Private "ownership" of anything is a literal spook.

You die, therefore, everything you "own"(that's non-perishable) is a rental.

>>36672596
>he thinks he can enforce communist taxes with an anarchist non-government
There's a gun pointed at every door of my house, try me faggot

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>>36675576
the only real anarchy

>>36675489
anarchoprimitivism is the one that's most compatible with human biology

why do you think any time such a study is done tribal peoples are found to be measurably happier
just look at the rates at which people use anti-depressants

whether you are a communist or a capitalist, they are both two sides of the same coin and result in mass misery

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hey, OP. care for a ride?

>>36675325
so people can't be trusted, except you? you can't make exceptions to universal rules like that anon. you're saying that you're okay with massive government tyranny as long as you're in in. we're talking about civilization here, not barbarism. goodbye.

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>he's not a left communist

lmaoing @ ur idealism

>>36672596
Anarchy is impossible anon.

One step above is communism.

Become a communist instead OP.

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>>36672914
Honestly pic related is me when but right wingers on the Internet make me go full communist, ironically heading parrallel to le helicopter. The appropriate response to fascism is communism.

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>>36672596
Fuck off /leftypol/.
Originali

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>>36678709
Once again, fuck off.
Original

>>36678709
>>36678725
>n-not my safe place!
>n-no one is commies on 4chan!
>must be strangers from another website!
>this one fits!
No one uses leftpol baka.

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>>36678634
>being a jews useful idiot
Why?

>>36672596
>anarcho-anything
did soros pay you 10 bucks for this
SAGE

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>>36678826
Ever considered just being a jew? If we're all jews, no one is.

>>36679412
>changing my race
What, also
>stealing fashy memes and just reversing them in paint
This is why you guys are losing, unoriginal cunts

>>36677424
No, I want massive government tyranny as long as people like myself are in charge. People with a philosopher's spirit. Just read the book and you'd understand. It's only 360 pages.

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>>36678634
I'm (-2, -2)~ I just consider myself a left-leaning centrist.

I believe in the two things that intersect at that point.

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>>36672596
>Being anarcho in anyway
You scum deserved everything in Kronstadt

>>36679826
okay, then it's an immoral idea and we should never let someone like you in charge

>>36673206
>>create societies of people that aren't retards who WANT a government
>Governments arise as such
yeah that's exactly what I was saying

>>36672943
>Anyone who wants the state either
>a) doesn't understand what the state is and where the state's power comes from
>b) knows they cannot compete in a free market
You forgot:
c) knows that OTHERS cannot compete in a free market
d) understands that quality of life should not be dependent on individual wealth, and regards the state as best placed to address this problem

(these are only the most obvious reasons; I'm sure there are many others)

>>36681227
Why is it immoral? Normies are too stupid/easily lead to be left to their own devices. There needs to be a guiding light. I'm not gonna make some harem or even an oligarchy(which is the problem). It's going to be ruled by people that want to actually advance humanity instead of project their traditions and shit on it.

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>>36680058
>Posting Joseph "instead of abolishing capitalism and the state, I'll combine the two" Stalin
Also thanks for the "big government = socialism" meme.

>>36681686
initiating force against other people is immoral, and that's what you're doing as a tyrannous government. it doesn't matter if they're betting off under your """"guidance"""", if someone doesn't want to participate, you can't force him to. imposing your views on other people because you think they're good is forceful.

>>36682159
But that's what the state does already.

Also It wouldnt be a tyrannous government. Someone doesn't want to be a part of this better world can go fuck off. Anyone actively working against it will be eliminated. Being a tyrant means you're unjust and having power for power's sake.

I want power so I can plant trees I know I'll never sit in the shade of.

>>36675489
Literally none of these are arguments.

>>36672596
Kys commie scum
Itte wuzent aurijinalle

>>36682417
Everything there about an-cap seems to be right. What do you mean?

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>>36672596
>this idea takes into account that it would require perfect morality, perfect intelligence etc. in other words, perfect humans

Here is where you fail, where all ideologies that support human morale fail. When will you learn that only a low percentage (high IQ) individuals support ethics, or even have any semblance of what this idea means.

Aristocracy is the answer

>>36672596
Naivety is the anarchist mantra.

>>36682524
If we're talking about Plato's idea of an aristocrat, sure.

Guardians WHEN

>>36682613
No, its a ruling class, that sets an ideal to aspire to, and makes all the decisions regarding the fate of a country. Only the ruling classes word has any merit. You make everyone equal, you get what we have now. Bullshit. There's no standard or morals because you know everyone is equal.

>>36672596
Watcha doing pol? Why are you pretending to be an anarchist on r9k?

>>36682720
People do need a authority figure. The "free-thinker" types have always been a small numbered outlier group. People need to know their place for their own mental health.

>>36682899
Being a "free-thinker" and mental illness are mutually exclusive

I will give you this however, yes, people certainly need to know their place. Without a doubt.

>>36682520
They're just statements with no explanation behind them.

>>36682938
>Being a "free-thinker" and mental illness are mutually exclusive
Are they really though?

>>36683098
Yes, you can be smart and mentally ill, you can also be mentally ill and retarded.

You can also be a free thinker or you could just be mentally ill. Pretty easily discernable categories.

>>36672596
thanks OP its time these cucks get redpilled

I've actually yet to see a sound rebuttal to ancom

>>36683898
>rebuttal to ancom
I if I recall correctly, Orwell's very sympathetic criticism was something like the lack of formal structures potentially being a source of oppression, as you basically had no way to turn to complain of unfairness or any way to quickly change structures. Norms and habits are usually hidden and subconscious and not as easy to change as a written law or rule. Furthermore, associations based on norm and habits can be hard to change for the same reasons; while voting for a formal positions can alter it immediatley.

I mean, imagine that you're given more to do in a commune than Chad the Handsome, and also that Chad has more say in decision-making. Offically you're both on equal power; but because Chad the Handsome is do darn handsome and charming, people not only tolerate that he works less, they also listen to him more even though your arguments are better supported and more developed. What do you do? No rule has been broken, no one has *really* gotten hurt, and there's no authority to complain to anyway. Seems like a minor problem, but imagine it multiplied through-out society at every level of decision-making for every single thing. Even economic planning and things like environmental management are skewed by Chad's charisma.

Personally I've changed my views a bit after this critique. I still support ancom, but I believe it needs SOME formal rules and procedures.

>>36684671
Which is why the partisan chooses Ansoc. It's the best of both worlds.

I'm a little hesitant to adopt the economic or political models of the pozzed hippies squatting in abandoned warehouses in Berkeley that spend all their time pepper spraying middle aged women and "socializing" needles