>He's not a vegan How do you live with yourselves knowing

>>36671991
animals aren't people baby

>Do you have no morals, like a subhuman?

Yes.

>>36672010
Correct.

But they are living beings.

>>36671991
cows aren't tortured and they don't know they are going to die when they are in the slaughterhouse or their meet would be ruined

Obviously it's a slippery slope.

Veggies are living things too so maybe it's immoral to chop them up and eat them?

At its base, something must die so something else can live

>>36672030
But I don't care about every living being

>>36672049
It's obvious that you don't know anything about factory farming.

>>36671991
life and death are human constructions, all that matters is that we are transforming energy

>>36672096
>all that matters is that we are transforming energy
Which you could easily do on a vegan diet.

>>36671991
My ancestors didn't fight and die against a sabertooth, for me to swear off meat.

>>36672078
I worked on a farm on brazil and cows live better than your ave age nigger

Animals aren't women. I respect animals at least a little bit, which I don't for women, which proves my point.

Hell a woman probably made that image and therefore it's safe to just ignore.

>>36672030
So are vegetables, dumbass.

>>36672118
I rather get all the protein I need in one piece of meet than from 30 different sources

>>36671991
vegans should be fed to the animals

If you live in society you're already benefiting from unethical practices even if you don't eat meat, you can't avoid it so go live in the woods you hippie fuck

Also who cares about a brain dead animal? They have no reasoning skills, they are not people they are basically retarded lower lifeforms so why should I care?

>>36671991
>implying I should give a fuck
have fun with your spooks, my guy

Shouldn't stuff like eggs be okay to eat as a vegan? They aren't really animals.

>>36672053
Veggies don't experience suffering

>Civilized people require more than sensory pleasure to justify behaviors.

Agreed, but a lot more follows from this than just "don't eat meat." You shouldn't use cell phones, because cell phone towers are disastrous for migrating bird populations. You shouldn't consume food produced using industrial agricultural methods, because harvesting vegetables, wheat, etc., using mechanical farm equipment kills and injures large numbers of rodents and other animals in the fields. Same with transporting that food long distances: cars, trucks and roads kill and injure huge numbers of animals, both through direct impacts and also through habitat destruction.

Most vegans don't go nearly far enough in their commitment to this principle and it makes their moralizing ring a bit hollow.

>>36671991
>implying having an unwanted penis inside you is anywhere near as bad death following horrid conditions

Women making themselves the victims when talking about an issue completely unrelated to them again I see.

>>36671991
The function of morals is to keep society functioning. Eating animals in no way threatens this, so it is moral.

I think meat is shit but we should feel free to kill animals either way

>>36671991
I don't feel any remorse for eating animals, and you shouldn't either. Not all living beings are equal.

>>36671991
I am a vegan though

Damn was it easy as fuck for me to switch. I feel like people build up meat as some vital staple in their diet, it's extremely easy to cut meat and dairy out when you have the conviction to do so

If you fall for cravings you are pretty mentally weak honestly, but then again I understand there's an addictive component with dairy products especially

>>36672873
Nobody is asking you to feel remorse. I didn't when I was a meat eater as well. You should switch because it's the logical choice.

>>36671991
How many equivalent slaves does capitalism provide you with, including the device you're posting on?

Why are animals more important than them?

>>36671991
I don't care about animals lives or their living conditions. I went vegetarian simply to be more 'Green', and even then I sill have meat once a week. The problem of meat isn't that we eat it, it's the amount of it we eat. People around the world who NEED to eat meat with every meal, or at least once a day, are the real destroyers of the environment, perpetuators of world hunger, and drainers of healthcare resources.

And by eating far less meat, the standard of living of the animals we do keep are likely to improve.

I don't have morals, but I don't have malnutrition.

>>36671991
I'm mostly vegetarian now. Meat is brutal on my hemmoroids, I'm basically on a anti-inflammatory diet

>>36673369
And the vast majority of vegans out there including myself agree with this completely.

What do I ask for you to do?
Simply to do what you can.

If that means being vegan that's great.
If that means cutting out meat during the week days that's great also.

There's a problem that needs to be acknowledged and we as the people in society need to change in order to fix it.

You may think it's an impossible feat, changing the American diet. It's already changing, gradually. Dairy is no longer something Americans drink every day. Things take time but things ARE changing.

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Eating McDonalds rn

>>36671991
>muh morals
It's the circle of life. Life can be AND for the most part cruel place. Survival of the fittest faggot.

>>36671991
>Civilized people
>Humans
Lelkeklollmao

>>36672053
>Hurr durr eating an apple is the same as killing a cow. I sure showed him!

Eating meat is also a good source of protein
Also it tastes great fuck your argument

>>36674085
Plants are a good source of protein
protein really isn't an issue whatsoever, there are even vegan bodybuilders desu
Also they taste great

>>36673921
It is though, isn't it? Would you need the apple to scream while you're eating it to be able to convince yourself that it's a living thing?

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A pig would eat any vegan still alive given the chance.

>>36671991

Brace for a wall of text OP.

Here's a little secret revealed to you: all normal humans care about themselves more than anyone else. Now, you might ask, what's stopping us from killing each other, other than the law?

My answer is entertainment. Some people in my life I would never rape and kill even if I could, simply because they have ways of making me feel entertained. Those people for me involve a female friend, my parents, most of my teachers and the two of my brothers twice removed. So even if breaking taboos and hurting them will make me feel good, aka cum, I find them worth it to keep around as friends. Everyone else? Had I had the power, I'd rape a new person every day, and kill a hundred for petty reasons.

Morals? You might say that those separate us from animals... Well, they do. They do because only a human could invent a tool of control so indiscriminant and evil as morals. In most cases having morals benefits the ruling class, and not every citizen separately. So the only reason to even oblige by them is peer pressure and terror of law.

>>36674865
You don't need morals to have a vegan diet. Do it for the health benefits. Do it for future generations of your family who will have to live on this planet

>>36671991

>How do you live with yourselves knowing the food you're eating is the end product of literally tortured to death animals?


Bitch, what do you think would happen right now if you left my place and there were like 3 wolves waiting for you?

>>36674928

Give me the love of my life first, then tell me to care about "future generations". What's in it for me? Even if your "health benefits" catchphrase is true (prove it), the most I get out of veganism is the odd 1 or 2 years of life. I already eat a pretty healthy combination of grains, meat, tea and veggies/fruit.

>>36671991
>bites into steak
I literally don't fucking care

>>36671991

Being cruel to animals is bad? sure.
Eating animals is bad? nah.

Animals eat animals too. It's only nature. The problem is mass-production of meat and torture, not eating animals.

>>36675198

Why is being cruel to animals bad?

t. Soaked a live wasp in alcohol today

>tortured to death

Ahaha, nigga I live in a rural area and grew up around tons of farmers. They treat their animals better than most people treat each other.

>>36671991
Humans are omnivores. By nature it is ok for us to titrate animals for our own survival.

>>36675254

>titrating animals

I am a chemical major and that word does not mean what you think it means.

>>36675219

Because they're living beings too. Animals don't (99% of the time) try to be cruel, they just act upon instincts and that's the most moral thing there is. Humans shouldn't be any different. If wolves attacked you, they'd try to do as much as damage as possible in the shortest amount of time, not torture you.

>>36671991
Killing something instantaneously = torture.

>Come on now

>>36675302
You are a fucking idiot if you believe that.

Animals are just as cruel and evil as we are.

We run on instinct just as animals do.

We are NOT better than they are.

>>36675302

Your point being? I don't care what they would or wouldn't do to me. I don't have a retarded human-animal binding contract that excludes our mutual rape, physical and mental. I didn't torture a wasp because it was dangerous to me. I do it for entertainment and sexual gratification.

>>36671991
Also animals rape often you nigger

>>36671991
it is actually a lot easier to live with yourself when you have delicious food

>>36672319
Yes they do. They're just so different from us that we don't recognize it.

>>36675460

Animals aren't cruel, almost always. They rarely torture, kill needlessly, etc.
And even if they are cruel, by your logic we should live in an anarchistic society, because that's where we can fully run on our instincts and be as much as assholes as we possibly can. There's a reason why we developed civilization and chose to enforce law and order.

>>36671991
>Civilized people require more than sensory pleasure to justify their behaviors
Hold on a second leftists
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wllc5gSc-N8

>>36675467

As a human, you have the ability to chose better than animals. If you want to torture things, go for it. It just shows how morally inferior humans are to animals.

>>36671991
>He thinks a polarized group of sociopathic virgins on 4chan will change their mind after you use a strawman argument to convince them to go vegan
I actually think at least 60% of our board is OK with rape.

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>muh naturalistic fallacy!
Humans, as a group, to not engage in immoral behavior. Murder, rape etc are immoral precisely BECAUSE they are innately revolting. Deviant members engaging in deviancy is no proof that the natural is anything less than moral. Indeed, to argue for a moral system that prohibits natural human behavior, that is, to argue for a "moral system" that is unarguably inhumane, is both absurd and abhorrent.

>b-but muh utilitarianism!
Carnivorism is perfectly compatible with Positive Utilitarianism, and Negative Utilitarianism (from which vegfags derive their "morality") is ludicrously grotesque, as Smart put it:

"Suppose that a ruler controls a weapon capable of instantly and painlessly destroying the [world]. Now it is empirically certain that there would be some suffering before all those alive on any proposed destruction day were to die in the natural course of events. Consequently the use of the weapon is bound to diminish suffering, and would be the ruler's duty on NU grounds."

We see then that veganism is the not merely the subjection of the moral for the amoral, but the subjection of the moral for the immoral. The Vegan is shown to be either a monstrous degenerate who wishes to extinguish Life itself, or simpleton you doesn't understand the philosophical underpinnings of his 'morality'.

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>all the carnicucks in this thread
pic related

Forced veganism from birth is why I'm a manlet.

>>36675538

We are cruel naturally. It's just that we've evolved to recognize the usefulness and fun of not being a sadist to everyone.

>>36675624
>tfw 6'2"
>tfw vegetarian
>tfw rest of family are 6'6"
>all fucking vegans

I regret it everyday

>>36671991
That's a really weak emotional argument. Logically there's a risk vs. reward thing for anything that feels good. It just so happens to be that the risk and reward ratio for killing and eating animals is a lot more in favor for the person than rape would ever be. Aside from it feeling good, meat provides you energy. Why would I let my emotions hold me back from gaining my risk-free energy in a satisfying way?

>>36675646
>We are cruel naturally
Nah, that's just how society especially ones developed by the abrahamic religions comes out.

>>36673369
>I went vegetarian simply to be more 'Cuck'

>>36675680
yes, you should sweetie

>>36675646

If we are, we can choose better - and we did, a lot of times. Don't be an ass. That's our pro and con over animals that just have instincts mostly.

>>36675590

Morals are a set of society-enforced rules, a self-propagating mechanism of control and greed. Why do you love them so much? They don't benefit you.

>>36672319
Animals don't have souls or minds, only instincts, which are essentially the most primitive form of emotion
Emotions are ultimately meaningless in the grand scheme of things
Any suffering they feel is pre-programmed into their biology and doesn't come from anything resembling intelligence. They have no choice but to feel afraid because they are not in control, their instincts are.
As long as any particular species isn't going extinct, idgaf
and even then fuck pandas

>>36675803

I am not that moral myself. I just think that they're mandatory unless you're in an anarchy. Being cruel is all fun and games until someone does shit to you.

>implying I wouldn't rape people if it were socially acceptable
dumb vegans

>>36675780

"choose better". It's a better choice only in species-preservation context. A better personal choice is sexual satisfaction, survival and plentiful resource and entertainment. Don't try to prove anything to me in a social context, because I care about myself the most.

> asking if anon has no morals on /r9k/

What were you even thinking was going to happen?

>>36675810
absolutely not true, many animals have demonstrated significant intelligence, emotions, long term goals and desires, and even self awareness.
look up koko the gorilla, she's a good example of this.

>>36675894

Then you're the most inferior morally of all. In the lawless nature no one has time or need for that kind of shit. Your logic only works in law-based societies.

>>36675928
>gorillas
>all animals
So don't eat gorillas

>>36675839

Well, I'm not going around breaking human laws am I? I don't have powerful enemies and I train in athlethics, so I will run if someone decides to use me as a toy of the day. And that thing you said... "it's all fun and games until someone does it to you". I don't think that not hurting anyone will suddenly prevent everyone from hurting you. Yes, torture sucks. So why not have some fun yourself before you get on the recieving end?

>>36675985

Explain morals. You've used the "moral inferiority" argument several times already, but I don't know what morals are, and I can't comprehend your argument without further explanation.

>>36676009

When I said "it's all fun and games until someone does it to you" I meant in a lawless society. Being cruel only (might) pay off in law-based societies and only if you're not caught (and not by law-enforcement only). You live in a law-enforced society, respect the morals. If you want to be a dick - go live in no man's land.

>>36676065

I pointed that out for thought, not as an argument. The argument is that you live in a society that contradicts your morals. You use a system that is built against people like you. If you truly believe in what you say, raise anarchy instead of being a little bitch and exploiting civilization.

>>36676206

Why are you angry at me? I've paid my price for the stuff I get from civilization. Please explain the word "morals" to me, I'm asking for the nth time yet you keep on getting emotional over nothing.

>>36676126

I actually remember saying in the beginning of the thread, that we're discussing a situation of absolute power, not a restricted one. I don't understand why you're so defensive of rules that prevent you from doing what you want. I can understand why you follow them - yes, what you get from following them is useful. But why do you venerate them like a masochist? Is this your fetish? Praising the source of your sexual bondage?

>>36676318

I'm sorry, I'm not really angry, just tired.
Anyway, good morals are pretty simple - harming yourself is OK, others - No. Those morals are mandatory for the functioning of society and harmony. You drowned a wasp, right? The wasp wouldn't have attacked you unless she felt like you were a threat. You attacked her for entertainment and satisfaction. Why not agree not to harm her unless you have to, just as she does?

>>36676444
Because I don't want others harming me. That's all. I see no reason to be immoral, so I don't go on being immoral. If I wanted to be immoral, I'd live where no morals exist.

>>36673921
>Hurr durr eating meat is the same as raping a person.

>>36672129
I see a simple solution
We should eat the niggers

>>36676541

Okay, now I see everything you say very clearly l, thanks.

So here's what I think:

I will come from a point of view where nothing is a threat to you or me and we have absolute power.

You derive more pleasure from stability and maternal/paternal instinct. Hence you would adopt a system of good morals even if you could rape (i'm gonna use that term pretty broadly).

I derive more pleasure from territorial and sexual instincts. I get high from negative emotions for a longer time than positives. Therefore, I will unleash my sexuality on anything, as long as it won't get in the way of my long term entertainment (friends) or put me in danger (law or a dangerous creature). It doesn't mean I'm absolutely devoid of sympathy - I'm just much colder, much more selective about who recieves it, and with it, safety from my desires.

Oh, and saying that I drowned the wasp is an understatement. As you know, bugs don't have a chemically resistant skin like mammals. So it was getting burned inside out. But it bent into a very strained, almost sexual position during the soaking. So I got pretty damn hard from that.

>>36676889

So, in other words, you respect the law and some morals for your own good, but be cruel when it comes with no cost.

It seems that you have a natural need to be cruel. In that case I can't blame you as much. However, you break a natural balance by doing so and still do it because unlike other people you kinda have to. If I were you, I'd just get that kind of content without actually hurting anything (like from the internet or some shit) without breaking the natural balance.

>>36677041

What is natural balance?

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I'm a vegan for a pretty simple reason, meat and milk are fucking disgusting.

Fruits are clean , fresh and comes in nice colors.

>>36677083

I'll explain:

You see a wolf. You get close. The wolf feels threatened and shows his teeth. You feel threatened so you back away. Why? Because the wolf knows naturally what to do in these cases (and so do you). You wouldn't eat the wolf anyway, so attacking it is a waste of time and probably a needless risk.

The wolf understands it too and doesn't attack you because it's not worth it. There are better things to do (mate, hunt etc.). If you were to attack it, you would work against every logic.
By the things you say, I guess you would have attacked the wolf if it came with no cost. But doing so hurts the wolf population, and hurts the natural biological interaction. That way, wolves might learn to attack humans on sight.

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>>36671991
>Live in Scotland
>We go vegan
>Many species of domesticated animals go extinct in the area (sheep and highland cow)
>Have to expand farm area and flatten the Cairngorms or cut population
>Have to run up massive debt importing good which aren't just tatties, cabbage and strawberries so we don't die of malnutrition
>To avoid this debt go full Empire 2.0 with England, millions trampled again
>Deer no longer have any predictors, overpopulation and food shortage means the species dies out due to starvation and disease
>Rabbits cause massive damage due to their expansion
Nah mate.

>>36677565
>predictors
predators***

>>36677319

Oh, that... So by natural balance you mean efficiency. And damn, that's a global approach.

But yeah, I'm gonna hold on to the point that I'm not exactly geared for efficiency, whatever the cause might be. And I also approach death from a very fatalistic point of view, so if something won't benefit me in life, I won't do it at all.

Well, thanks for not lashing out and sharing your point of view with me. Rarely happens with complete anonymity. Very odd how people defend their views in an argument, even though it's not a competition. Have a good night's sleep.

>>36671991
Not only am I not a vegan but I don't even eat food.
Checkmate, atheists.

>>36677896
this
photosynthesis is the patrician choice

>>36675227
Those aren't factory farms, you retard.

Guess where the majority of meat comes from.

>>36673921
you fucking spastic, apples aren't vegetables.

>>36675884
I'm sure you would, Jamal.

This discussion is supposed to be for actual human beings, see yourself out.

>>36671991
The difference that all vegans miss is that the animals are ANIMALS. None of them have souls or emotions. They only feel negative emotions since their nature is to not work. We are different. We have ambition. Desire. Hope. Most importantly, creativity. You put a cow outside for a century, and it'll eat grass and then die from the elements. Put a man outside for a century, and he'll build and design, dying a noble death surrounded by his own creations. We are superior. They are meat robots. Meat is their only purpose in this world.

>>36677896
Soylent?
green is people


jfc oregano

>>36677126
Im also vegan, and yes it feels alot better eating clean. Health has improved, fitness improved. I went vegan just for my training to begin with, but i read up on all the other reasons and i feel very good about it.. One of my best decisions

I want to try going vegan but then
>cheeseless, meatless pizza
>shitty lasagna
>plain spaghetti
>"veggie" burgers and tacos
>fishless sushi
>tofu everywhere
Nope. No thanks.

>>36678486
don't forget the hummus!

>>36671991
Are you telling me it's okay to rape?

>>36678990
That would be correct. Since eating animals is ok, rape must therefore be ok.