>your MBTI type >the profession you would want if you were

>INFP
>Monk

Monks had it made. Pray, write books and drink beer all day long with no roasties to ruin the fun.

>>36662715
>INTP
>Philosopher/writer

>ENTP
>Advisor to the King

>implying this wasn't made to literally troll people on this website

>INFP
>Sentry tower guard
easy as shit job and I can just bail as soon as I see a large amount of enemies

>>36662715
>ESTP
>person who explores uncharted territories.

>>36662715
>ENTP
>Arcane Mage

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>>36662715
>ISTP
>not masculine at all
Explain this.
I'd be a medieval NEET

>>36662892
>ISTP
>not masculine at all

can you fucking read?

>>36662892
>Explain this.
It's quite simple you either use too much Ti(introverted thinking) or you're in Ti-Ni loop. Basically Se (aux one in ISTP) is masculine cognitive function which you ignore.
>ISTP Ti-Ni loop: An ISTP in a Ti-Ni loop overanalyze situations, getting stuck in their head and find themselves unable to act on any of their beliefs. They may become convinced that they are completely right and know best in any situation, also becoming overly anxious in situations and mentally pick them apart in an attempt to understand them. They will also become overly worried about the long term implications of an action or the underlying meaning beyond what they see on the surface, and have trouble acting in the moment.

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>>36662715
fellow istp here anon :D

>anything that involves fighting
>have a more modern kind of equivalent job to blacksmith and i hate it already....need something with more excitement and life risking

>>36662715
>ENTP
>mercenary
>>36662871
ssssstaaaaaaaahp

>>36662920
Neat. Thank you anon.

>>36662715

>INTP
>Mathematician

thiswasneveroriginal

>INTP
>Philosopher/Physicist
These and mathematician are the only jobs we could do. Our lives would've 100% depended on the ability of knights like ESTP

>>36662715
>tfw INTJ
I...

>>36662996
stop what
what did i do

>>36662715
How does this chart even work?
I'm not going to deny my position as INTP but what's the unit for masculinity? How were the values decided for it?

>>36663049
stop being so qt

ENTJ
King

>ENTP
Grand wizard who owns his own blood cult

>infp
>a princess (male)

>>36662715
>ISTJ
PEASANT
E
A
S
A
N
T

Or maybe a town guard.

>>36663080
well shucks mister

>>36662715
>INTP
>Alchemist or natural philosopher

INFTP

Philosopher I guess.

>>36663183
>>36663080
The hell. This is so fucking gay.

>>36663388
I appreciated the compliment you cocksucking faggot

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>>36663406
You like it when he calls you cute. You're fucking gay and you know it.

>ISFP
even in that I'm average...

>>36663388
gay for those digits, so.....b-b-big uwu

>>36663460
I mean, yeah, I am. That's no secret m8

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>>36663460
*grabs your hips from behind*
are you sure your man-womb can handle seed of such fertility and volume?

>>36663541
Don't touch me. Get the fuck away from me. I have
a weak immune system and you have faggot germs I can get an infection from.

>>36663595
>weak immune system
code for AIDS. red flag, avoid

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>mfw i am entp
>mfw no gf
>mfw no sources
>MFW OP IS A FAG

>>36662715
>INTP
>Traveling lutist

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Pic related , its OP

-_-

>>36663617
No faggot I just have a shitty diet and need to buy supplements.

>>36662715
>INTP
>mercenary

>>36663644
semen doesn't count as a diet fagboy

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>>36663673
"you have been muted for 2 seconds"
/R9K/ EVERYONE !

>>36663595
if you aren't strong enough to bear children my essence would be wasted on you anyways.

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>>36662715
>INTJ
>sage (specifically the kind the hero goes to for wisdom and moral and spiritual guidance

All these fags , and still no sauce

>INTP
>NEET leeching off of my aristocratic family

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>>36663574
First two minutes aren't bad so far.

>>36663767
It's one of the meme images "ISTP" anon used to shit on INTJs. There likely is no source.

>>36663716
It wouldn't actually happen anyways because I have a dick. Which clearly makes you lust for me but I'm not interested in faggotry. Sorry buddy.

>>36663735
>>sage (specifically the kind the hero goes to for wisdom and moral and spiritual guidance
So basically Gandalf?

>>36663602
I was joking. 16 puts you in the non-autism range.

>>36663726
>>36663624
You've got the right idea.

Nihilism is soooo edgyyy

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I do tell whether I'm an ENTP, ESTP, ISFJ or an INFJ?

I know that I'm on the Ti/Fe axis, and neither feels repressed or dominant so I think they're my middle functions

But that being said, I don't feel as if I can relate to the descriptions of having any dominant perception function very well at all. I can kind of relate to Si and Ni more than Ne and Se, but I can be a very loud and boisterous person (as well a very quiet and thoughtful one I guess).

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>>36663861
Your bait is so fucking weak
you literally migrated from the old post just so you could rage post and attempt to bait

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>>36663829
LOTR right? Never seen it. I don't want to be bound to any one particular hero. I wouldn't travel with them. They'd come to my cottage to speak with me. I'd talk with anyone willing to listen.

>>36663884
None of you would adress my non-meme responses just because I was memeing a lil. So I let my autism out all at once.

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>>36663891
Kind of like this, with some details changed.

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Cant we all just have some fun

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>>36662715
>INFJ
>Advisor in kings court, diplomat or a priest

Being in kings court would mean big money and court politics would be interesting if not bit lethal
diplomat would mean i could hammer out peace treaties, alliances and deals with foreign powers to protect the realm
or priest because they were basically the medieval psychologists, deus vult and all that good shit to keep soldiers sane

>>36663905
>None of you would adress my non-meme response
Okay, what are your non-meme responses and I'll actually address them.

>>36662715
raider cause fuck people

infp

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>>36663861
>>36663905
I'll get to it. There's a lot to reply to.

>>36663841
Oh... but I'm still in the autism range ;-:

I like your song but I can't sleep INTJ anon

>>36663941
Looking at a computer screen makes you alert for a while before you fall asleep. Unless you're ready to pass out, you won't be able to just shut it off and go to bed. You'll have to lay there and just wait till your brain gets drowsy as it should, and then fall asleep. Give that a shot if you think it's better for you to go to sleep now than stay up.

>>36662715
>INFP
>lesser knight, one of those less important nobles who made up the majority of the decent fighting forces

Lord it over people and crack heads, thinking mainly about who's going to foot the bill for my carousing. Then get all soulful and recite poetry while the /real/ intellectuals are crying because I stomped on their quills.

>>36663861
>>36663905
ENTP, you aren't really disagreeing with INTP from what you say here

>>36663694

I might be wrong.

>>36663865
Are you a shut-in or not? It'll be more difficult with limited social contact.

What type of video games and or books and television do you enjoy?

>>36663929
Ok. The nihilist thinks that subject created meaning is not really important or significant on a grand or objecive scale.
This ignores that if many people are doing it, then it is significant on a gramd scale. If these many people are trying to construct meaning, then perhaps there is objectivity in the desire to create positive meaning. This is a driving force of humanity, and as such has an objective meaning. Now you say, but who says humanity has any meaning? If humanity meant nothing, we would already be dead. There wpuld be no now if our view didnt matter. Why? With no meaning, there is no experience. Without a meaning to it all, there would be no point in ever being present at all. Conscious experience should be null under a meaningless mode of being.
Additionally, if there were objective meaning greatr than the nihilists nothing, then it would not make itself apparent. The meaning should be obscured because if people knew about their true objective purpose, everyone would be mindless drones submitting to it.

>>36662715

ISTP

Pretty much exactly what you said, I fantasize about doing those things you mentioned all the time

>>36664065
>This ignores that if many people are doing it, then it is significant on a gramd scale.

Why does it matter how many people are doing it? it's still subjective and not objective and inherently a part of life.
Somebody that chooses a separate path from the majority is not wrong for doing it, his subjective meaning is no different from the majority's subjective meaning because they're both SUBJECTIVE and not OBJECTIVE.

>If humanity meant nothing, we would already be dead. That makes no sense at all.
We have no more or less purpose than any other animal on the planet, we're primates and we're just acting on instinctual impulses.

>ife is what you make of it, and most people are driven to make it better for themselves/kin
That's a bad argument.
If you were never born you'd have no reason to actively work towards a better life.
Life is just a big distraction, as there's no true purpose, and you're constantly trying to make one to pass the time before you inevitably die.

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>>36664065
>The nihilist thinks that subject created meaning is not really important or significant on a grand or objecive scale.
Yes.
>This ignores that if many people are doing it, then it is significant on a gramd scale.
I see what you are trying to say.
>If these many people are trying to construct meaning, then perhaps there is objectivity in the desire to create positive meaning.
Perhaps.
>This is a driving force of humanity, and as such has an objective meaning.
The /fact/ that everyone wants to have meaning for their lives doesn't necessarily have meaning in itself.
>Now you say, but who says humanity has any meaning?
No; again, what I say is that the alleged innate human desire for meaning may not have a meaning of its own.

i almost wish i had the patience to read this shit

>>36662715
>legionare, kings guard
Literally did not exist in the middle ages. Stop reading shitty fantasy books. No legions, and the closest thing to a "king's guard" were whatever band of armed men that particular king chose to keep around for protection. No permanent regiments until the 17th century.

>>36662715
>INTP
>foppish prince not first in line to the throne
or if i was some kind of not royalty, i guess being a painter.

>>36664131
Calling it edgy just implies that you don't WANT to believe it, regardless of whether it's true or not.
calling that view 'edgy' just implies that I actively choose to think this way for the sake of being dark and brooding, rather than something I've come to accept reluctantly.

I don't enjoy believing this, but it is objectively true; I've not found a good counter argument that proves an inherent purpose to existence.

>>36664131
I mean humanity in a universal sense, as in life/conscious in general.
>There is no true purpose
... that you are aware of.

>>36664169
Just ignore it and start a side discussion. You won't gain much.

>>36663640
>I as in introverted
>perform in public
What, also
>INTP
>beekeeper

>>36664193
> that you are aware of.

If there's an objective purpose to our existence, then our goal should be to figure it out, biding time doing arbitrary subjective things is pointless.

But I agree; True understanding is beyond our earthly realm, and language is a fundamentally flawed, limited vehicle for reasoning.

>>36664147
Ah, so you are still speculative about a greater meaning.
A world exists beyond day to day percetption. I think that much should be taken as a fact.
You assume that if there was any objective meaning, then it necessarily would show up within the realm of every day perception.

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>>36664191
>Calling it edgy just implies that you don't WANT to believe it, regardless of whether it's true or not.
>calling that view 'edgy' just implies that I actively choose to think this way for the sake of being dark and brooding, rather than something I've come to accept reluctantly.
>I don't enjoy believing this, but it is objectively true; I've not found a good counter argument that proves an inherent purpose to existence.
I agree with all of that.

>>36664227
According to your view even trying to figure ot out is arbitrary and pointless though, since that is just your subjective meaning assigned to this world.

>>36664191
I dont WANT to believe it because it is a false view founded on unjustified asumptions.

ISTP
A soldier fighting for King and country

>>36664268
Because I don't believe there is an objective purpose. The same reason I don't believe in god because there's no evidence.

If there is a god, or there is a subjective purpose, then obviously I'm wrong, but until that time I'm unfortunately remaining a nihilist by default.
>>36664277
>false view founded on unjustified asumptions.
I never made assumptions; Re-read my post. I said that it IMPLIES the aforementioned, whether intentional or not.

>>36664237
>Ah, so you are still speculative about a greater meaning.
1. "Speculative": my language reflects the lack of certainty we can have about the matters we're currently discussing, not about my own personal convictions
2. "Greater Meaning": I personally don't believe in it, insofar as I stick to a nihilist belief system.

>A world exists beyond day to day percetption. I think that much should be taken as a fact.
Yeah. But is it wholly physical, or are there also nonphysical aspects of reality? That's the relevant question here.

>You assume that if there was any objective meaning, then it necessarily would show up within the realm of every day perception.
Not sure where you got that. If there was objective meaning, then it would have to be discoverable period. If it cannot be found then the evidence for it is no stronger than the evidence against its existence.

>ISTP
>The Engineer Builder
meh, depends on what am i building, i prefer war machines and defenses, not houses and decorative statues, etc

>>36664277
isn't all philosophy based on assumptions anyway? You have to assume what is right and wrong to have the majority of philosophy, nihilism basically turns this on it's head, saying that nothing is right and wrong.
A huge proportion of nihilists just do it to make themselves feel smart, however it is a likely truth that the world has no meaning.

>>36664330
>A huge proportion of nihilists just do it to make themselves feel smart, however it is a likely truth that the world has no meaning.

I don't deny that a huge portion do, but for me personally, it's a truth I've come to accept because it makes sense and hasn't been disproved, not a conscious choice I made to seem superior to others.

>isn't all philosophy based on assumptions anyway?
All thinking is based on assumptions, as I previously mentioned;
>True understanding is beyond this earthly realm
>language is a fundamentally flawed and limited vehicle for reasoning

Nihilism isn't based on an assumption per se,
it's based on the fact that the only positive truth is that there can only be those assumptions, and no objective truths and facts.
Sorry to get meta, but it's how it is.

>>36664298
It's the pessimistic view. People were flat earthers until proven wrong. I say the very same thing could happen, in principle, to you. But alas, if it doesnt slap you right across the face, nothing will move you. And I have justified reasons as to why objective meaning should not make itself abundantly clear. So go on, nothing i say can change your mind.

As for the false assumptions yours is assuming objective meaning would show itself given it exists.
It is not so radical to think that ut is some sort of hidden or forbidden knowledge. I see you agree, but then i dont see how you can believe that and be nihilist.

>>36662715
ENTJ
Courtier at a princely court in Italy/France

>>36664381
>It is not so radical to think that ut is some sort of hidden or forbidden knowledge
I agree with you, and I'm open minded to that, but as >>36664304 said, If it cannot be found then the evidence for it is no stronger than the evidence against its existence.

If it cannot be found, then it's existence is pointless anyway.

daily reminder that sensor is code for drooling retard

>>36662715

>INFP
>I dunno. Probably the king's qt girlish eunuch servant.

Trannies weren't really a thing back then you see.

>>36664374
Would you agree that nihilism is heavily based on the burden of proof ideal. Since there is no definitive proof that life has meaning, you assume the negative.
What kind of proof would you require to make you believe life has meaning?
Despite life having no meaning in your head do you have daydreams like most INTP's?
I constantly imagine myself making some amazing discovery, or going down in the history books. Could there not be meaning in these daydreams?
Also isn't nihilism just an excuse for inherent INTP laziness?
>I don't do anything because nothing I do will have any meaning regardless
It is a logical view however, I cannot deny this

>>36664304
Nonphysical reality, but if it is reality, is it non "physical". Definitely non newtonian, perhaps quantum or relitivistic.
Once science comes to describe something, it becomes "physical" so i think the distinction is equivalent to "whether it is in our documentation on reality or not"
Again, objective meaning should not be observed since if it were, humans would be mindless automota under the meaning. Objective meaning cannot be pointed to by physical evidence because documenting meaning behind existence is only tangentially physical.

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>>36664053
I would be a shut in but I go to Uni so I have regular social contact.

Here's my steam play time, what you can't is my thousands of hours played on World of Warcraft

I don't watch TV, I don't read much fiction, I mostly read self help books, often ones teaching social skills. I'm doing a degree in maths, but I was kind of tore between that and philosophy.

My favourite animes include:

Berserk
NGE
LOGH
JJBA
Higurashi no Naku Koro ni
Death Note (don't laugh)
HxH

(all rated 9/10 in MAL)

I hate saying this but I called introspective and insightful a lot, I don't think I am, I don't reach much challenging material but I do spend a lot of time pondering and self analysing. I also feel like quite a shallow emotionally lightweight person as demonstrated by my tastes in entertainment, I'm empathetic and understanding, but emotions don't really resonate within me, I'm better at understanding them in other people than in myself.

>INFP
>Probably a little thief that sticks to the shadows, I'll do certain things for a price

>>36662715
>intp
Fuck the medieval ages man that shit sucked.
I want to be a Roman Legionnare.

>>36664430
>Would you agree that nihilism is heavily based on the burden of proof ideal.
hm, somewhat
but I think of it more as the opposite.

Believing in god, despite no evidence, is the burden of truth fallacy because it requires somebody else to disprove god rather than the person making the claim to PROVE god.

Same thing applies here, I make the claim that life is meaningless, some people claim it has meaning, but leave it up to me, the nihilist, to prove that it doesn't have meaning, rather than proving to me why it does have meaning.

>INTJ
>Necromancer, shaman, cult leader...

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>>36664448
>Nonphysical reality
If that's the case, then it needs something to ground its existence. Objective morality or meaning cannot be grounded by the human mind; it's very problematic. One difficulty is its apparent dissolution upon extinction of the the human race. So it has to be grounded in divinity. But gods' existence is doubtful.

>>36664495
Did you even read my post? Or did you stop after 2 words?

>>36664304
Do you find it strange that someone could be an INTJ and religious at the same time?
It's been said before, but religion is mostly carried forth because lies repeated stick. I know an INTJ who is religious and I find it fascinating how everything has logic applied to it except this area. It's more a desire to have meaning, when he probably knows there isn't any.
Also even without meaning, is it logical to base our society around christian values (assuming you live in a western country).
Even though you do not believe in these values, you probably subconsciously take them into account when making decisions. This means all human decisions are somewhat illogical, and based on brainwashed values that have no meaning to you.

>>36664458
Anime is television.
Death Note is a great anime.

You sound and look like an ISFJ to me. Good read Portrait of an ISFJ and get back to me.

>>36664469
Sup fellow INFP

That feel when no gf right?

>>36664528
Why cant INTJs empathize?

>>36664448
>humans would be mindless automota under the meaning

Interesting view, but surely it would be better to have a purpose that you know to be important and beneficial, rather than to wander aimlessly distracting yourself until your inevitable death.
Humans are already slaves to chemical reactions and instincts.

>Free will is an illusion
>Somebody with depression cannot have the free will to experience pleasure
>brains are comprised of various cognitive systems cycling amongst themselves and generating our thoughts, consciousness, choices and behavior. These systems and their effects all result from the mechanical, inorganic laws of physics, over which we have no control.

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>>36664507
I read it all. It's just that the first two words of it made the rest irrelevant.

>>36662715
>ENFJ
>Strategist

>>36664567
Did you INDERSTAND what I was saying. Please tell me why the rest of what i wrote was irrelevent?

>>36664565
Cont

>We have no free will
>We are already mindless automota
>We are primates
>We are mammals that act on instinct
>Our ability to reason doesn't change out animal status
>Balls bouncing around a pool table have no free will, the basic chemicals that make up our bodies and minds have no free will.
>Neurones fire when they should fire, according to their electrochemical properties >They don't randomly fire

>>36664479
You worded it better, but that's the point I wanted to make.
You require someone to prove it to you rather than disprove it. Is it possible to assume both are simultaneously true and untrue until proved either way?
>>36664551
I'm INTP, so I'll speak for my lack of empathy. Empathy is largely illogical. Logical people can see a solution to someones problem and to us it seems easy, so empathy is reduced. Empathy is also created from emotions reacting to emotions. This means that someone low in the Feeling category would struggle with it naturally.
I scored 5 in that empathy test thing, where under 30 meant aspie was probable.

>>36664565
Thats physical reductionism. I think when you boil a human down to its physical parts, you are missing the qualia associated with consciousness. Yes chemicals are responsible for brain activity. But it is more than just chemicals and neurons. It is the actual experience of those chemicals that is "nonphysical"

>>36664528
>Do you find it strange that someone could be an INTJ and religious at the same time?
I'd need a definition of 'religious'. I can't imagine being attracted to the ritual aspects of it.
> I know an INTJ who is religious and I find it fascinating how everything has logic applied to it except this area. It's more a desire to have meaning, when he probably knows there isn't any.
Sounds like he isn't actually religious then. To be generous, he's taking Pascal's wager.

>Also even without meaning, is it logical to base our society around christian values (assuming you live in a western country).
Christian values hardly mean anything these days. It'd be better to try something else as a basis for society. It wouldn't be """logical""""

>Even though you do not believe in these values, you probably subconsciously take them into account when making decisions. This means all human decisions are somewhat illogical, and based on brainwashed values that have no meaning to you.
What does irrationality have to do with your point?

>>36664551
We can and do. We're very empathetic.

>>36664171
>what are roman legionares

>>36664641
Call it reductionism if you like.
You don't have true free will.
>Stimulation results from a constant biochemical cycle.
>These natural cycles determine our states of mind and our choices.
>Through a long and complicated series of cause and effect, our choices are made.
>All our 'choices' are ultimately the result of impersonal and mechanical forces.
>There is no "free will force" that causes neurons to fire some times and not at others. >They fire in accordance with the rules of physics, firmly beyond our control but not beyond our appreciation.

We can appreciate our complex mammalian brains and our neurological systems, but ultimately they are beyond our control.

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>>36664590
I understood it. The rest of it was invalidated because I accepted that meaning is nonphysical, so thoughts on the properties of physical things did not apply to meaning.

>>36664602
How do you describe the arts and creative endeavors then? That is more than just machinery. It is a conscious extending its experience into the physical.

>INFJ
since medieval philosophers were cucks, I'd love to be a high priest/vicar/anything to do with theology and spirituality

>>36664668
If we teleport someone using a particle scanner to create an exact replica of their particles, will they still be the same person?
Assuming everything is truly mechanical, I would like to believe so. However, because of our chemical cycle, I would probably be too scared to actually enter a particle scanner teleporter, as death, unfortunately, frightens me.

>>36664671
This is not true. Prove that your "conscience" is real first. You cannot do this. Your entire argument here is based on, "oh well art looks/sounds good, so that must be our inner beauty".
It's more likely based on how we evolved to enjoy and have an attraction to certain stimuli

>>36664671
The arts are one of the few things that keeps me desperately trying to create meaning, despite my nihilism.

Despite that the logic is as follows;
>Circuits and determining molecular processes exist outside conscious thought.
>They reinforce the neurohormonal loops that regulate consequent emotional response.
>The hidden preparation of mental activity gives the illusion of free will.
>We make decisions for reasons we often sense only vaguely, and seldom if ever understand fully

You want to compose a song; why?
a fool would say ''its because I want to'' that answer is idiotic, nothing happens or can happen without a reason, a cause.

>The agreeable idea of making music which presents itself in your brain, the dominant idea, the determinant idea.
you cannot resist an idea which dominates your brain
>What would be the cause of your resistance? >None
>By your will you can obey only an idea which will dominate you more
>That isn't free will

>>36664670
>dissolution upon extinction of humans
And why should other species be excluded from ultimate meaning?
Nonphysical, by its mere being nonphysical doesnt need to be grounded.

Stoo >tfw to smart posting too. It bothers me.

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>>36664734
Cont;
>If we have the will to resist one urge, then all we are doing is submitting to another urge. >These urges, which we think to be the functioning of free will are just the causational results of other factors which are equally beyond our control.
>Any attempt to exercise free will is just yet-another submission to hidden cause and hidden effect.

>>36664725
Its real because Im having conscious thought rn. No way this kind of self-reflecting experience can happen without a conscience.

>>36664758
Being a mindless follower to urges is not what happens in practice though. When an urge appears, if you arent an addict or something, you will evaluate the urge for its validity and if the urge conforms to your will. It is not that the urge overpowers your conscious,but your conscious allows the urge to manifest into reality.

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>>36664760
>Saying that minds are ethereal, non-physical, spiritual or whatever-else does not grant them with free will.
>If thoughts are not random, there must be factors which influence what thoughts are thought, and what choices are made.
>We're just Primates
>We know that most of those factors are purely physical; Sex drives, hunger, hormone-driven emotions and the like.
>They make little sense without a physical foundation.
>The full emotional range appears to be controlled purely by biology
> This is why brain damage can so drastically affect personality
>There's no room for a non-physical mind

>>36662715
Infp
Bard/sculptor/jeweler

>>36664786
>When an urge appears, if you arent an addict or something, you will evaluate the urge for its validity and if the urge conforms to your will.

>If we have the will to resist one urge, then all we are doing is submitting to another urge.
> Just the causational results of other factors which are equally beyond our control.

>>36664760
Even if we assume the conscience is real, I highly doubt your thoughts are truly original.
You're controlled by genetics that decide how your thoughts act, due to the structure of your brain etc.
You're also controlled by external stimuli. This creates neuron paths that cause your thoughts to work in new ways. This is things like as >>36664793 said your sex drive and hormone driven emotions.
Also when you read you adopt ideas and assume they are your own. All thought perhaps developed originally from "I need food and water".

>>36664736
>dissolution upon extinction of humans
again, this is the case if you ground Meaning's existence upon the /human/ mind. If meaning depends upon the human mind for existence, the lack of human minds entails its nonexistence.

>why should other species be excluded from ultimate meaning?
ultimate meaning is something different. one direction to go is to say that meaning is grounded upon minds in general: all minds. but it's unclear how these individual kinds of minds meld together to create an overarching meaning for all of reality, as opposed to restricted merely to the existence of the kinds of beings bearing those minds--in other words, that meaning isn't just the meaning of human life, or the meaning of snail life, or the meaning of this particular snail's life

>Nonphysical, by its mere being nonphysical doesnt need to be grounded.
That's not what grounded means. Nonphysical doesn't mean nonexistent.

>Stoo >tfw to smart posting too. It bothers me.
Wear your nametag and I will.

>>36662715
>INTP
>Hermit

>>36664793
Yes there is room. Consider a coin, it has two sides. Consider heads physical and tail non physical. When you drill a hole in the coin, you destroy both the physical and nonphysical. They can both exist, and still be separate, yet deeply intertwined.

>>36664844
Whether both exist or not is irrelevant.
>Some thoughts are supposedly completely non-physical
>What causes the mind to decide the way it does?
>If those causes originate in the physical world (and clearly some, at least, do) then we are back with determinism, and the introduction of a non-physical mind is an empty embellishment. >If some of those causes are non-physical causes, then we are no better off than we are with uncontrollable physical cause

>>36664827
My genes now arent me? Hah!
I dont have a twin, so my genes are original, and thise determine my thoughts, so huh wouldnt that make my thoughts original. M experiences are all a part of me, yes. So those determining thiughts would also inply original thought.
>>36664827
>No humans => no meaning
I never said meaning depended on human thoughts.
> but it's unclear how these individual kinds of minds meld together
I agree.
Maybe the individual really js meaningless, and there is more clout in the collective consciousness. Our snail conscious is up to snail stuff making crtain the ocean ecosystem is as it should be. Humans are exploring the more heady thoughts that snails cant. Different species are suited to different tasks, except one. All are suited to reproduce, and therein lies meaning. All Life desires to go on supporting the consciousness in one way or another.

>>36664881
Physics isnt deterministic though: radioactive decay. So even if it were all causally related to physical systems, those systems are not necessarily deterministic. Perhaps that fecay haplens in our brain and maybe that js where the 'free will' comes from.

INFP

Apothecary shop owner/ potion maker

>>36664922
>All are suited to reproduce, and therein lies meaning.
So you mean to tell me the meaning of life lies in a trivial fact about it?

>>36664922
So you're saying that just because we want to fuck and have babies there is meaning to life?
This is just an evolutionary instinct. It does not give purpose to us. If you decide to not have a child, have you failed your purpose?
Also saying that animals do it as well gives less meaning in my opinion. Human existence is supposedly transcendental. We have risen above the animals and now how meaning more than sex. However, I don't find sex meaningful, nor find any meaning in our so called "free will"

>>36664968
ERRE YOU ARE YA FICKEN CUNT
DOON HIDENG FROM ME ARE YA?

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>>36665010
I'm hiding you, rather.

>>36664991
I dont really know or have answers for you. Meaning ewint show itself, and there is an explanation for that. Its your choice to beleive what you want to.
Im too tired to carry on desu. I habent slept in 20 hours.

How would definitely knowing that there is no meaning in life change your behavior?

>>36664531
okay I read this: http://www.personalitypage.com/html/ISFJ.html

hmm I guess I can relate to the ISFJ description more than other types. A few things seem off, like believing in traditional systems over other ones, but that being said I never feel angry about current day social systems, my mind feels very in tune with their positives, much more so than their negatives. Perhaps that's a sign of not possessing much vision, that being said I have a lot of "revolutionary" and unique ideas that I like to play and debate with. I feel a sense of duty within my communities. When I was prefect back in highschool, I took the rules very seriously and tried to follow them as close to the t as possible, not because I necessarily agreed with them, but because not doing as expected made me feel as if I've let people down.

And I don't feel as if I suffer from learning an abstraction based route, I've always tried to understand things on an intuitive level as well a logical one and I feel decent at it, that being said I don't really get cognitive functions and that's why I'm posting here now. Maybe I just have a developed Ti? I was a gifted and talented student all the way through highschool and I got a lot of private attention from my teachers solving content outside of the classroom, mostly science and mathsy stuff, which I guess could of developed my Ti.

But aside from that I agree with everything else to a great extent.

>>36665132
Might make a man depressed, mught not change him at all, he might start getting careless with his work, he might drop out of society, he might get riskier. A whole lot might change.

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>>36662715
>ISTP
>hired sword

Some adventurer, please recruit me

>>36662715
INTP
I'm interested in seeing the world, so I'd probably be a wandering knight or musician or some other job where you do lots of travelling.

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>INFP
magician
if we're talking about medieval fantasy here

also post your collages I'm interested in what the types listen to

>>36664793
>>36664734
>>36664670
>>36664671
Why do you retards have to ruin every thread with your "intelectual" bullshit

>>36665353
found the ISTP

originitium

I think I'm an INFJ with roughly equal Fe and Ti. Both the Ti-Fe and Fe-TI dynamics seem to apply to me. I don't like it, I wish one was clearly stronger. I feel like the demands of society are bullshit but I still can't be happy unless I'm fitting into society harmoniously. I guess I'll just never be happy.

>ENTJ

Trying to pursue a female ENTJ is literally like Edge of Tomorrow. You have to take the initiative yourself and if you fail, you'll have to start all over again

>>36665353
>Retards
>intellectual
kek
This thread was literally made to continue one that was archived that we were all in.
Stop pretending you understand, newfag

Found the ISTP

>>36665132
If meaning isn't synonymous with purpose here, it wouldn't. If it is, I'm not sure what I'd do. It'd make me very unhappy.

>>36665151
Good to hear the shoe fits.
>Maybe I just have a developed Ti?
Not impossible. I believe I have developed Fi despite it being tertiary in my function stack. Being ISFJ doesn't preclude you from being smart.

>>36665233
>the lonesome crowded west
Now this is the good shit
One of the only albums I get emotions from as an INTP.
Doing the cockroach and bankrupt on selling are the best tracks imo

>>36665436
okay, thanks a lot anon!

>>36662715
>INTJ
>alchemist

tha- that chart is a... a joke r- right?

>>36665434
I didn't make a new thread. I told us to move to one already up.
But then people shouldn't be making more than one thread anyway before bump limit, and certainly should announce it afterward.

>>36665465
It was made by a butthurt ESFP
A week ago he literally exploded with "POOPOOPEEPPE" tier posts and wasn't seen since

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>>36665465
Complete. And Utter.

>>36665410
Also, King. But that's only if it is a white civilization we're talking about

>>36665488
I'm fairly certain he OP'd a thread couple of threads later.

ISTJ and not a male.
During high school, did this test, was INFJ
After university(engineering), did it again, ISFJ
Now, ISTJ

>>36665132
It's impossible for (the potential for) meaning to not exist in the universe. Do you mean objective meaning?

I don't believe in objective meaning, I believe in subjective meaning, my life is dedicated to making me as happy as possible for this provides the most enjoyable experience in my life. For example, I help other people, not for the sake of helping others, but because not helping others makes me feel sad, if helping other no longer made me feel good, then I would not help others anymore. I feel as if this is the philosophy that the average person who does not introspect lives their lives by without realising, I feel as if this gives my life plenty of direction and purpose.

As long someone has emotions, then they have a direction in life, to balance and maintain the most positive emotions they can feel for the longest time possible in order to produce the greatest net gain of happiness over the course of their life, regardless of means used to achieve this.

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>>36665233
>>36665446
>INTP
Well here's mine anon. Doesn't look like this is gonna kick off though

>>36665578
I really like elliott smith too

>>36665561
What's the point?
Your subjective meaning isn't objective.
You're distracting yourself until you inevitably die.
You only have this subjective meaning of creating an environment where you can feel happy because as a primate you instinctually desire to keep your hormonal and chemical level in perfect balance.
You'll die anyway, and up until that point, your meaningless subjective experience of getting simple pleasures is nothing more than a mere distraction.
If you died right now, there'd be no difference comparatively to dying of age.

>>36665372
>>36665434
Im an istp and i made the thread you pretentios piece of shit, but i didnt make it so that you fucking self proclaimed geniuses could spew your dogshit and walls of text in it, trying to come off smart when youre just talking out of your asses. And i understand oh so very well, i just dont have the need to argue about it on a board like r9k and try to impress autists with no practical knowlege like yourself. Stick to your philosophy you weak girl, but dont ruin simple threads with it.

>i le trolled you
>i got a reaction and "manipulated" you

Kys

ISTJ, new to this kind of stuff. Tell me about myself.

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>>36665654
>pretentios
>I understand oh so very well
keep telling yourself that
kek

>you weak girl
nice edgepost, faggot

>I-I undertand, I... I'm just not pretentious like you, I'm 2smart.jpg

keep crying ISTP

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>>36665654
>ISTP is so stupid that he literally cannot interpret the meaning of any conversation that requires higher thinking

I don't get it, you have Ti and you have Ni, so shouldn't you be able to think abstractly and thus enjoy this discussion? Are you brain damaged? What would your ideal thread look like, aggressive shitposting and senseless INTJ bullying?

ISTPs are literally niggers.

>>36665654
You're right, anon
You're way smarterer than them you've got the spelling of pretentious down to a T

INFJ
scribe, seems like an obvious choice for me

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>>36665654
>Admits he's a stupid fucking ISTP

>>36665788
>mindless isolated tedium
>INFJ

something is off here. I think you might be a sensor with special snowflake syndrome, not an INFJ

>>36662715
INTP
Some sort of academic/chemist/alchemist type.
Basically anything i can study and fuck around with shit with alone. Hopefully with a long distance colleague i can compare findings with through mail.

>>36662715
>intp
>meme farmer

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>INTP
>Monk

I wanna use my logician sperg wizardry to be the next Thomas Aquinas and come up with logical defences for the doctrine that holds my worldview and society together.

>>36665716
>>36665777
>>36665818
Because i already thought about all the shit you are all talking about and i accepted it the way it is, and i accepted the fact that i will never understand certain things, which is mostly spiritual stuff and i believe in it in general, but i do not fully understand it because no one is able to explain it or capture it and calculate it, but its there.
So i dont have the need to show off my superior writing and arguing skills in every fucking dick measuring MBTI thread with my fellow super duper smart INTJs and INTPs.
I try to live my life rather than think about it every second of the day trying to understand something i cant, because i know i never fully will, and neither will you no matter how smart you believe you are.

I believe that there is a higher power, i believe there is a world beond the physical one and i believe that its more than just atoms, molecules and chemical compounds. And i believe that we dont just die and thats the end of the story. But despite it maybe actually being that way and death being the end i try to make the most of my time on here and enjoy what life has to offer because we're not here forever. But in order to enjoy life you have to experience it and not fucking think and ponder about it the whole time, which is something you morons clearly dont understand.
But who am i to you. Do what you want, its your lives not mine. Im enjoying mine and the last year was the happiest i have ever been because i changed my mindset and started doing something with myself, got back into college, started working on my body, developed a positive outlook on life, fell in love with a girl and felt things i did not know were possible and am in a happy relationship with her now and im in it for the good and the bad, because thats what life is.

Have fun talking shit to me. Im sure i gave you enough material to try and twist my words around.

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>>36666265
>I believe that there is a higher power, i believe there is a world beond the physical one and i believe that its more than just atoms, molecules and chemical compounds. And i believe that we dont just die and thats the end of the story.

Because you're a fucking ISTP, you're the brick layer amongst philosophers and scientists.
Accept it and move on, while the big boys talk about something INTERESTING and PLAUSIBLE
>tfw when you're so fucking dumb you think every intellectual conversation is a dick-measuring contest or showing off

Must fucking suck to be ISTP with that mindset

>>36662715
>INTP or J
>A newt

>>36662715

why does the x-axis have no units ?

>INTP
>traveller
Staying at 1 place would get boring too fast

>any profession you want

why would you pick anything but king?

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>>36662715
xNTP
Plague doctor

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>ISTP
>Ahhh maybe a type of wood worker...

>>36662715

>ENTP
>Mercenary or international trader

>ESTP
>Uhh, a pirate?
Anyway i'm gathering sensors for a voyage to rob and pilgrimage intuitives.

>>36662715
>Tranny
>Second most feminine personality type

>>36662715
>INTJ
>Monk/Lute Player for the King

>>36662770
This.

>>36666352
>the universe is 14 billion years old and no one has the slightest idea what existed before it, but a 17 yearold faggot on r9k thinks he can unfold the mysteries of the universe and everything it consists of

You guys never fail to make me laugh. But hey since your ability to appear smart to the average retard is the only thing you can be proud of, have your fun talking to others alike. Once you step out of your house and into the actual world, you can just cower and watch because you are worthless and lesser than the average person in every possible way.

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>>36667069
>he believes that you have to have some kind of authority to be allowed to speculate
>he thinks his worldview is somehow better than that of others
>he has to believe in having a purpose (e.g. religion) to be happy

>>36666572
it's relative masculinity.

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>>36667069
>17
Kek
I'm older than you, fucking child
I'm in my 20's and a philosophy major

Stay mad and enjoy the bricklaying
you dumb fucking ISTP
>People don't discuss intellectual topics to prove anything, they discuss them because they're genuinely interesting and want to talk to likeminded individuals to learn more
>MUH GOD
>Y-you're making me laugh... I'm laughing so hard right n-now

have fun playing with your little toys and dealing with that inferiority complex mr 2 digit IQ
FUCKING KEK

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>>36667131
>he has to believe in having a purpose
That's what you took away from the post?

Are you actually retarded?
The whole point was that there is no purpose and you don't need one
>Happy
>r9k

Found another ISTP

>>36667315
>That's what you took away from the post?
No, from your earlier one

>Found another ISTP
nope

>>36667234
Why do these unintelligent types even get out of bed on a morning?
Have fun arguing with one of the literal stupidest types, that makes you almost as bad
>masters of all kinds of t o o l s
KEK
Done with this post

>>36667358
Are you a child, or are you just one of the illogical personalities?

>Life has no meaning
>Don't need meaning to enjoy it
>Still doesn't have any fucking meaning you dumbass
>You only continue to survive because of instincts
>You tell yourself that you enjoy it
>You'll die one day anyway
>Whether you die now or then is irrelevant because your 'enjoyment' is just a distraction and death is inevitable

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>>36667438
>INTP thinking everyone who doesn't use his """logic""" is stupid
Classic

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>>36667131
You're the kind of cunt that would keep your mother on life support
>S-she's still alive
>S-she doesn't need feelings or thoughts to be happy

>>36662715
Daily reminder that regardless of what your meme type is you're all just a bunch of autistic faggots who should do something worthwhile for once and an hero so that way the welfare system can be closer to being abolished and we can end the tyranny that is being forced to pay for roads.

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>>36667514
>Your logic is wrong!!1
>There can be multiple different objective truths and logic somehow!!
>I'm not going to tell you why you're wrong though, because I'm 2smart.jpg

>>36667586
There's always one fucking faggot that has to start crying about welfare. Stop tryharding right wing memes

You're not being taxed you minimum-wagecuck
you're not the 99%, shut the fuck up, poorfag

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>>36667514
>Logic
>Belonging to any particular person
No sweetie, that's called opinion or bias

>>36662715
ISTP
Alchemist

>>36667589
"Life would be meaningless so I'd either kill myself or pretend that there HAS to be a purpose even though everything we know so far speaks against it" is not logical.

>>36667564
If there was a chance for her to wake up, sure

>>36662826
oh shit bro same here

>INTP
A shopkeeper or tavern owner

>answer every question as if i was the biggest douchebag in the world
>ESTJ

Now I know which people to stay away from, ask friends to take the test

>>36667735
Are you an INFP
Everyone finds his total/almost opposite to be fucking retarded

>>36667625
Daily reminder that if you support welfare you're literally a cuckold who should go back to prepping Abdullah for round 2. Also nice projection there.

>>36662715
>ISTJ
>Warrior

>>36667667
>Being this retarded unironically

It's really this simple
>Life has no purpose
>This is a fact not opinion
>No evidence contradicts this
>We will all die one day
>When you die is irrelevant as not existing isn't something that can be experienced
>Non-existance means you can't miss life
>Because life has no meaning, your achievements are meaningless
>Somebody that gets enjoyment from fapping to hentai and smoking weed all day with NEET bucks is not superior or worse than a rich chad with a socially acceptable, praised job
>Both have equal subjective enjoyment in their meaningless existence
>Because we will all die, any '''acheivements''' you make will eventually be void anyway
>You ''enjoy'' living, because your primate instincts encourage survival
>This is literally Darwinism at it's core
>Because you have no purpose, your days are spent making artificial subjective purpose from enjoyment
>Your ''enjoyment'' is just a distraction until the day you eventually die, which could happen at any time

>>36667772
You need to get the fuck off this board and go back to r e d d i t

>>36667798
>but everything is just a bunch of atoms!
So why haven't you killed yourself yet, if you know that there's no meaning to it?

>>36667765
I'm an ENTP

>>36667842
>why haven't you killed yourself yet

I've considered it many times, I don't get much enjoyment from living even though I have people that care about me and am '''successful''' is certain aspects.
I just don't logically see much point in living; It's just constantly finding a way to quell the death anxiety until it inevitably happens naturally anyway. I don't fear death at all.
I didn't choose to be a nihilist, I wish I didn't find more of a reason to live, it's not about being more intelligent than others, it's just that I've yet to find a logical counter argument.

>>36667916
I actually am kind of excited for death, to find out what really happens. The only part of death i fear is pain because I personally do not enjoy it

>>36667937
>The only part of death i fear is pain

I genuinely believe that if painless, quick ways of killing yourself were more well known, suicide rates would be much higher

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Reminder that the overwhelmingly vast majority of N types here are actually sensors. Yes, the internet and especially discussion boards like 4chan are likely to attract a disproportionately high number of N types, however all introverted functions are also likely to find gratification from different aspects of chan culture.

If you seriously think you're an INTJ/INFJ then I recommend you read this top to bottom, multiple times, while it's certainly possible, I'd posture that vast majority of INxJs here have mistyped themselves.

if anyone has an equivalent for Ne types please share.

>>36662715
i go between intp and istp
what did my psyche mean by this?

>>36662715
INFP
Recordkeeper I guess

>>36667971
I don't think that many would be killing themselves out of curiosity though. More would from desperation and hopelessness

>>36662715
Intp, probably a leader of a crime family thing, or a Merc. (I'm only like 65% introverted, so I think I could manage.) Also a philosopher would be cool too.

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>>36668031
>>if anyone has an equivalent for Ne types please share.
Her you go

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>>36668031
>>36668145
And here's even more about what actual InxJs are like

>>36662715
>ENFP
>Plague Doctor that actually just murders people in the middle of the night and sells their belongings

ISTP female here

>talked down to by literally everyone because they assume I have no idea what I'm doing about anything ever that is hands on
>computers, cars, fixing shit, anything
>fake being friends with girls irl because too shy to talk to guys
>have tons of guy friends online because easier to talk to
>people assume I'm a stacy with orbiters
>really just get along better interest and personality wise with dudes
>never once flirted or fucked around with any of my guy friends
>always been a tomboy
>always been outcasted by females
>never fit in as the smol qt girl in a sundress during summer
>irl friends always wonder why I live completely alone and never let anyone in my apt
>irl friends view me as an emotional sponge for all their drama and use me for money
>online friends get why I live completely alone and never let anyone in my apt
>online friends view me as an equal and we help eachother out
>2fat and 2shy to meet any of my online friends irl
>forever stuck in this cycle of hell

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>tfw I always get a different result every time because my values never score above 57%
>tfw too intelligent for the MBTI meme

>>36667916
>I haven't found a logical counter argument yet
Stay here and make life worse for the normies. Torment them, drive them insane, make them hate existence and everything inside of it as you sit there like the /devilish/, smug poopootoad you are

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>tfw istp
>26 kv neet on bux
>fought with my parents a lot and jumped in and out of homeless shelters in my youth
>im exceptionally effiminate in nature, and im very sensitive
>despite this im exclusively masculine and never in my life have masturbated to submissive oriented porn such as feet or femdom, etc. if i did i always self-inserted as the dominant, even if it was a girl
>my face when people think im masculine

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>>36664237
>I think conjecture should be taken as fact

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>>36668324
>has never wondered about how MBTi actually works, wasted his time on retarded tests instead
>"to intelegent too MBTI"

>>36662715
>INTP
>Justice of the Peace

>>36662715
ISTP wizard dude I'd straight be casting spells and shit

>>36667234
>im 22
>agriculture college
>already have 80.000m2 of land and have blackberries planted on it
>waiting for it to reach full growth so i can start collecting huge money
>have to work 2 months a year during harvest season
>work outdoors in nature providing food
>after i finish college ill work as an advisor the rest of the year
>settled for life at the age of 22

Also
>scored top 3% at IQ test i had to take for my drivers licence
>never said i believe in god, only that i think theres more to it than being born and dying
>there's nothing to learn from like minded individuals because none of you will ever understand how things work

But okay buddy, have fun rotting away behind your screen

>>36662715
tfw INTJ, i am /fit/ and near to dudebro levels of masculinity.

>>36668475
>IQ test to drive
Where the fuck do you live?

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>INTP
>master poisoner

>>36668299
Lose weight and I'll date you

>>36668475
>there's nothing to learn from like minded individuals because none of you will ever understand how things work
>I know everything
Ok Mr Insecure

>>36668519
But do you relate to this?
>>36668031
>>36668207

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>INTP
>Hermit Inventor

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>>36668475
This has to be a fucking pasta

kekd so fucking hard m

>>36666265
>believing in something based off gut instinct alone
That's kind of silly man, and it's not like the only things in life that can be exaimined are religious and/or spiritual. Even if you chose to believe what you do you can exaimine things within that framework.
>But in order to enjoy life you have to experience it and not fucking think and ponder about it the whole time, which is something you morons clearly dont understand

What's the point of a good life if it isn't examined? Even if your life consists of things that would otherwise be "fulfilling", not thinking and mulling over it is tantamount to hedonism. Plus I think you have your cause and effect backwards. Anons here aren't shut in loners because of a relentless need to try and explain things - they have a relentless need to try and explain things because they're shut in loners with nothing better to do, like me.

>>36668548
PCOS
I still try, though.

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>>36668475
>>>>there's nothing to learn from like minded individuals because none of you will ever understand how things work

>>36667916
>it's just that I've yet to find a logical counter argument.
Can you imagine any conceivable scenario where life would have meaning? A proveable god? An afterlife? It still doesn't give it the 'meaning' you're looking for. In which case, the most valid meaning is the temporary subjective experiences of the living. I think you might be comparing humanity's 'paltry' existence with something that simply does not exist. Just because humanity's meaningfulness is subjective, doesn't mean it's invalid. Especially so when there is no conceivable objective meaningfulness to compare it to.

>>36662715
>INTJ
>Guild Merchant

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>>36668475
>Scored top 3% at IQ test i had to take for my drivers licence
>Drivers licence
>IQ test

>there's nothing to learn from like minded individuals because none of you will ever understand how things work

E u p h o r i c

>>36668797
>Can you imagine any conceivable scenario where life would have meaning? A provable god? An afterlife? It still doesn't give it the 'meaning' you're looking for.

Nope, you're right, they don't give it meaning either.
Your existence is equatable to that of any other primate, you simply exist with no real direction or goal, until your hourglass runs out of sand.

>>36662715
> ISTJ
> Blacksmith

>>36662715
>ISFP is more masculine than ENTJ
yeah. not even countin others. which tard made that chart?

>>36668972
100% chance he made it himself because he's a fucking mongoloid ISTP toolkin
KEK

>ENTJ
>Soldier

But i'm already a soldier lmao

>>36668797
Are we not all doomed to fail to achieve our subjective meanings as the inevitability of death creeps down on us? Unless your approach is to create multiple meanings and move on the next once one is fulfilled - which I think is the approach of most normal people. The only meaning most people have when they wake up is to get out of bed. Meaning accomplished. Brush teeth. Meaning accomplished. Shave, go to work again, survive. But I live that way and it's not satisfying. But why do I feel that way? How can one meaning outweigh another if there's no objectivity to them? Logically I should get as much satisfaction from completing the meaning of washing myself as I do from the meaning of graduating college.

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>>36668972
>ISFP is more masculine than ENTJ
The analyst types are extremely logical, and don't care about offending people
> These are two of the most masculine traits
>All the analyst types are low on the list

>Mfw OP made this because he thinks being a wrench monkey wagecuck makes you manly

>>36669073
>But I live that way and it's not satisfying
>Are we not all doomed to fail to achieve our subjective meanings as the inevitability of death creeps down on us?

This is exactly what I was saying, glad you see my point

>>36668943
>Nope, you're right, they don't give it meaning either.
In which case, we might as well immerse ourselves in our subjective experiences, the 'dream' that our lives have meaning. Well actually that's not quite what I mean. I mean that if there is no objective meaningfulness to speak of, subjective meaningfulness automatically becomes the next most valid thing.
>Your existence is equatable to that of any other primate, you simply exist with no real direction or goal, until your hourglass runs out of sand.
I don't need to be programmed to do a specific task like a computer to find meaning. I find meaning in my subjective experiences. I enjoy smelling sweet flowers. I enjoy looking at pretty things. I enjoy working towards a self-set goal. I enjoy contributing to society. Just because no higher power, no supreme being, told me that what I do is meaningful, doesn't mean I cannot find my own meaning in it.

I think you might be searching for something that simply does not exist. Objective meaning does not exist. And that's ok, we don't need it. There's nothing bad about existing until the hourglass runs out. Besides, searching for an objective meaning just sidelines the legitimacy of our subjective meaning, and in doing so we actually make it more difficult to achieve what can give us meaning which is living an enjoyable life!

Virtuoso (ISTP-a) EVERY FUCKING TIME WHY

I just want to be a femboy

>>36669147
It has nothing to do with a higher power.
If you can live a fulfilling life knowing there is no meaning, then I'm glad for you.

>I enjoy smelling sweet flowers. I enjoy looking at pretty things
These are just distraction that you use to fill the time between your birth and you eventual death, they don't contribute to anything, they merely boost your oxytocin and keep your survival instincts and hormones in balance, eventually, you will die, and those experiences will not matter.

>I enjoy working towards a self-set goal
There's no such thing as a self-set goal, if you create the goalposts yourself, what's the pleasure in overcoming the ''challenge?''
I could declare that I'm going to walk on tip-toes for the rest of my life, because it's a goal I want to prove to myself. Is that goal anymore or less important than your personal goals?
What's the point in walking on my tip-toes if I don't need to do that?
People have children and create these self-imposed goals simply to feed into their survival instinct and give themselves reward chemicals since we no longer need to hunt or mate constantly in the wilderness

>>36669073
Eventually we will die, but that doesn't mean the things we accomplished during our lives, our subjective striving, didn't have meaning whilst we were alive.

>Unless your approach is to create multiple meanings and move on the next once one is fulfilled
I personally have multiple pursuits going on at once and they are weighted differently, meaning that I derive more pleasure from some than others.

>How can one meaning outweigh another if there's no objectivity to them?
Because you subjectively view some to be more important than others. Imagine we live floating in outer space rather than on a planet. We have no ability to measure the weight of anything because there is no gravity. Ignoring calculating mass, the weight we subjectively ascribe to objects becomes the most valid metric in the absence of objectivity. Similarly, because there is no objective means of measuring the meaningfulness of our actions, the subjective meaning we ascribe to them becomes the most valid thing. And no one can tell us we are wrong, because an objective metric to override our metric does not exist and cannot exist.

>>36669278
>Eventually we will die, but that doesn't mean the things we accomplished during our lives, our subjective striving, didn't have meaning whilst we were alive.

No, they don't mean anything.
They didn't contribute to any greater goal,as >>36669232 said;
>There's no such thing as a self-set goal, if you create the goalposts yourself, what's the pleasure in overcoming the ''challenge?''

Those subjective ''meanings'' were just distractions, helping you to elongate your existence that would ultimately end anyway.
I know the cheeky meme ''it's better to have loved and lost, than to never have loved at all'' but objectively speaking, why would you start a relationship knowing it wouldn't work out in the long term?
It's completely fucking pointless and devoid of meaning.

>>36663046
It's okay, we're the king's advisor and after usurping the throne we either die to their kid or just a random group of people. We'll alway be the bad guys, it's just how it is.

>intp
>alchemist/scribe/engineer

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>>36662715
>Intp
>Siege engineer

>>36662770
do you mean the show Monk? the guy who wrote that, Andy Breckman, is fucking HILARIOUS, he does a SUPER lowkey really underground fm radio show on wednesdays, and i call in all the time and refuse to call him andy, i just refer to him as "Monk Guy" lmfao

>>36669147
>>36669278
I just don't think subjective meanings exist either, or rather that they don't have any weight or impact so they might as well not. There's an infinite amount of meanings you can ascribe to yourself completely arbitrarily, which to me robs the ones you do pick of any weight. What gives objective meaning weight is that there'd only be one lone meaning outside of man's control. It's like metrics. Metrics are a way of measuring an objective thing subjectively so we can interpret it easier. What's the objective meaning we can use our subjective meanings to measure? As you said, there is none. I could do as you say and base my meaning off whatever releases the most endorphins in my brain, but I think that's also a doomed endeavor since human misery and boredom outweighs pleasure. What's the translation of that meaning then? "Make your life less painful than it has to be, but it still will be a net negative." I understand what you're saying and I usually think the same way you do, but I'm in a shitty mood right now.

>>36662770
>>36669429
i am fucking retarded i thought you said "monk" not "monks"

>INTP
>Advisor to the King.

>>36668761
What's that? I don't speak ISTP

>>36669537
TLDR its super complicated

>>36662715
ISTJ
Something comfy and quiet, scribe or watchman.

>>36669342
So you're saying that if we lived forever, our lives would have meaning? I'm not sure I believe that the experiences of something that will never die are any more legitimate than the experiences of something that will die. I'm not seeing where the meaning is coming from.

What do you actually mean by meaning? Purposefulness? Legitimacy? Well, I mean they're just synonyms. Could you give an example of where something would have meaning?

>but objectively speaking, why would you start something knowing it wouldn't work out in the long term?
Let's ignore the pain of the relationship ending. Just because something doesn't last forever, doesn't mean it has no meaning. Or at least, I just don't feel that way. I just can't see it. I can enjoy life and my subjective purpose whilst I am still alive. I'll be dead one day, but I don't believe that undermines the experience I had when I was living. I rejoice that I have experienced it, not mourn that it does not last forever. Besides, spending our lives thinking about the futility of our existence just means we squander our opportunity to experience life whilst we are alive. I think that if you disagree with me and cannot find meaning in temporary existence, you might as well embrace some degree of willingness to live in the illusion that it does, or at least not think about it, so that you existence now can be more tolerable. But then again, I think I would rather be a fool satisfied than Socrates dissatisfied.

>>36669615
>So you're saying that if we lived forever, our lives would have meaning?
Absolutely not
An endless life would be hell.

By meaning, I mean contributing to something truly and objectively important, a greater goal so that we have a reason for our existence; Such a thing couldn't exist, but theoretically.

>you might as well embrace some degree of willingness to live in the illusion that it does
I'm very redpilled, and sometimes I wish I could go back to a time before I analyzed things so much and realized how meaningless it all is, but unfortunately, I can't seem to become ignorant to it

>Having a finite life gives you the drive to achieve your subjective 'goals' while you still have life
>Having a finite life means those meanings are only a distraction, serving to keep your ignorant and blissful until you eventually die

>Having an infinite life means you would eventually get sick of those simple subjective pleasures and become truly bored of life, for want of a better word

I don't have a solution, I just believe that existence is pain.
I can't experience any true legitimate joy from things because I know deep down that they only matter as much as I want them to;
>See my metaphor about tip-toe walking

>INTJ
>Herbalist

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>>36662715
>ISTP
>Crusader

>>36669761
>By meaning, I mean contributing to something truly and objectively important, a greater goal so that we have a reason for our existence; Such a thing couldn't exist, but theoretically.
Hmm, it's difficult to think about because as you said such a thing cannot ever exist. I suppose I'm of the opinion that it is senseless wishing for something impossible, like wishing we could go back in time to rewrite our mistakes or wishing for magical powers. Those things would be nice, but they can't happen and spending our days in mental agony over how we can never achieve those things is not only pointless, but also detracts from the things we do have right now.

>I can't experience any true legitimate joy from things because I know deep down that they only matter as much as I want them to
You're right that they only matter as much as you want them to, but I think where you and I differ is that you think that without an objective metric there is therefore no meaning, whereas I do not see the necessary progression from no objective metric ---> no meaning. You may choose to challenge yourself to walk on your tip-toes for the rest of your life, and if it is meaningful to you then it is legitimate. And automatically so since no objective metric exists.

I'm really enjoying this conversation, most interesting one I've had on 4chan in a long time. Really fires those endorphins and gives me subjective meaning :D In fact I feel even better than before I started since I now have confidence that my subjective pleasures are meaningful, whereas before I actually did have some thoughts of nihilism

>>36670276
I'm really glad you were able to find some meaning from out conversation

>>36662715
ESTP
Trader, businessman, don't really know their name in medieval

>>36670393
If you could take the bluepill, would you? I've always been skeptical of John Stuart Mill's claim that it is better to be Socrates dissatisfied than a fool satisfied.

>>36663970
Okay INTJ I finally fell asleep thanks ffor the song it helped also I had an interesting dream

>>36670448
>If you could take the bluepill, would you?
That really depends on the situation
sometimes I feel liberated by the fact that nothing I do has any more or less meaning than anything anybody else could do.
I don't fear death, I don't crave a life of luxury etc

Sometimes I feel very depressed when the nihilism completely takes over, and I wish I could have some meaning like my friends and family

>>36669615
I have a question, and I think it sorta hits at the core difference between the two ways of thinking. Let's assume you haven't been born and you're hanging out, not existing in a sort of lucid state. Then from some kind of psuedo consciousness a voice starts talking to you. It's kind of hard to frame this in a way where you can not exist yet still be able to contemplate things, I know, but just say you're there and just sort of drifting. The voice doesn't annoy you and remind you of the permanency of your non existence or anything like that - you're nothing. You have no troubles and no goals and you can't think about any of it. But the voice whispers in this brief moment of pseudo consciousness if you would like to be removed from this state and taken to Earth to be born. Would you accept?

Now I assume you would say yes, while the other poster would say no. I think that's the thing you need to examine because a conclusion can't be reached if the core principle behind the arguments don't align, and this is really what it boils down to.

INFJ
artisan of some sort?

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>>36662715

INFJ

I don't know what to do with this information.

>>36670560
>Would you accept?
>'the other poster'
Personally, no.
I'm perfectly content with the idea of non-existence, and like I said, death doesn't scare me whatsoever.
I think that if you never existed, you wouldn't pine for existence.
It confuses me how people 'thank god' or 'thank [their] parents' for their life as if it's a gift and not a meaningless limbo.
>If you were never born, you could never contemplate existence or experience it
>You wouldn't miss being alive or be resentful that you were never alive
>You would not experience any struggles that come with survival

>>36670576
read this perhaps
>>36668031
>>36668207
just saying!

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>>36662715
>tfw INTJ
pls help me guys

>>36664535
I just want to escape into my imagination brother

>>36670645
cont

>Being alive is what initiates your survival instinct, fear of pain, and death anxiety
>Never existing in the first place would not allow for the fear of death/pain to ever take form

Calling bullshit on INTJ being least masculine. Just shitty unfounded bait.

>INTP
>Military strategist/advisor
I'd probably do shit as a general as no one would actually listen to me, giving advice to someone who can lead properly seems more up my alley.

>>36670732
it's 100% bait, because OP is a dumb-as-fuck ISTP normalfag

>>36670732
wow, amazing! So this is the power of Ni?

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>>36670651

Thanks for the additional information I have no use for.

>>36662715
>INTJ
>Holy Roman Emperor

>>36662715
>INTP
>monk-philosopher
>or for something completely different, a wandering musician/poet (jongleur, troubadour, etc.)

>>36670852
Uh, what??
Original post

>seriously considering purchasing a psychological evaluation so I can find out my true MBTI type

This IS DRIVING ME FUCKING CRAZY I'VE SPENT THE ENTIRE DAY READING ABOUT COGNITIVE FUNCTIONS AND FOR EVERYTHING I SETTLE, ANOTHER QUESTIONS UP ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

>>36671066
I'm just poking fun out of you because you, like many others stated the blatantly obvious.

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>>36662715
>ENTP
>The Pope

Fuck you, I'm the Pope, and I'm the one with political power here.

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>>36671095
Please do not make rude posts towards me.

>>36670560
Hmm, this is very interesting. I think what this question is really asking is if I would choose to exist if I wasn't bound by subjective desires.

I think I would actually say no (I'm the anon who's saying that subjective meanings are not invalid).

Anon here
>>36670645
>>36670693
is quite correct in saying that since I would be freed of human survival instincts, I would have no incentive to be born.

I don't think this is actually contradictory to my previous argument though. Now that I am alive, I am glad. It's irrelevant that I am only glad because of my biology and survival instincts, and that I enjoy life due to these.

The crux of my argument really relies on these things:
>If an objective metric could exist then it would be more legitimate than our subjective perceptions
>However, since there can be no such thing as an objective metric of meaningfulness, our subjective perceptions are by default the most valid thing
>There is nothing to suggest that just because something comes to an end, it was meaningless to have existed in the first place
>We are alive now so we might as well embrace our subjective purposes. If we really do enter a consciousless void after death then I see life as a blessing, not a temporary interlude before the inevitable

Besides, here's an idea: If life really is meaningless, then you can take comfort in the knowledge that it will all come to an end eventually.

Reminder that MBTI is just as scientifically based as the Zodiac is and you're a retard if you take it seriously

>>36671071
Real psychologists don't use the MBTI.

>>36671337
No you wouldn't have incentive, but you wouldn't be discouraged either. Without any data it would be like flipping a coin. I guess what I'm saying is, in the moment I was asked that question, the only way to judge whether or not I'd like to be born would be the net positive versus the net negative experience regardless of instincts or context since the non-existence state would be a neutral 0. I guess for that to work you'd have to equate a neutral experience on Earth to being equivalent to having never been born in the first place, but I don't view that as a stretch. If the experience would be net happiness, put me on Earth. If net negative, I'll stay here. You wouldn't know at that time what made life on Earth happy or miserable as it was, you're right, you wouldn't be able to comprehend it. But you'd be allowed to know the raw result in the form of that happiness to misery ratio. Does that make sense?

>There is nothing to suggest that just because something comes to an end, it was meaningless to have existed in the first place
I don't know, this is easier to say about something like a relationship than death. If it's a relationship ending you're still alive and could reflect positively back on the experience in that moment, but if you were dead you couldn't.

> If life really is meaningless, then you can take comfort in the knowledge that it will all come to an end eventually.
But should I speed up the process is the question?

>>36671561
>But should I speed up the process is the question?
Not the same anon, but why would you? You're here now, maybe this is the only chance you get to be here. Why not have some fun with it and try to enjoy the ride?

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>>36668207
I am Ni what do i do? :*(

>>36662715
>INTJ
>Military strategist, king, court advisor.

>>36662715
>ENFP
>that guy who wanders around and gives advice to people or sometimes hugs and friendship and also has a wife that walks around with me

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>>36662715
>intp
>librarian in some castle

>>36671604
The only way for me to have fun in a way that doesn't require more input as work than I get out as enjoyment would bankrupt me or get me locked in prison. So I guess I could end it after doing those things, but it's not exactly the same as the traditional living life to the fullest idea. My brain has always had a pretty muted response to accomplishment compared to most other people. When I graduate with my major I know I'll feel nothing but annoyance since then I'll have to enter the job market, for example. There's always some task on the horizon that requires my work.