>tfw too intelligent to believe there was nothing and then

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>tfw to intelligent too entertain strawmen

>tfw too intelligent to believe there was nothing then one day a god existed and created itself and life and matter

>>35161208
God doesn't follow the same rules as us and doesn't have to be explained unlike evolution and other "scientific" theories.

>>35161093
You could say the same for God

There is actually this really high IQ chess dude who believes in creation

>>35161238
If he can't be proven then he shouldn't be believed in.

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>>35161093
>god creates a world where suffering is prevalent and people kill themselves every day out of despair

Really tingled my brainfolds

>>35161268
That is the whole point. To have Faith and not believe something just because it was proven.

>>35161268
1. Whatever begins to exist has a cause;
2. The universe began to exist;
Therefore:
3. The universe has a cause.
Prove it wrong.

>>35161258
And this makes him stupid.

>>35161093
>souls
literally just neurons firing in your brain

there is no proof of souls only a consciousness that exists to pilot your body

>>35161093
>tfw too intelligent to waste my time needlessly pondering questions which cannot be answered
Existence cannot be explained. Therefore, it is pointless to question it.

>>35161208
If you're an atheist or follow a religion you all believe there has always been something in the universe. How could the universe create itself without it existing in the first place? How would it even have the ability to do that? Because it's been there forever and there was no beginning to it. That logic could also be used for there being a God. It's both the same.

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>>35161283
Why don't you have faith that you will receive 72 virgins in the afterlife if you blow yourself up right now?

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>>35161297
That thing that caused the universe has a cause.

Either the universe doesn't have a cause or there is an infinite chain of super gods.

>>35161297
This

Energy isnt created or destroyed its always converted. It couldnt just spring into existence. There was a catalyst

>>35161093
>believe there was nothing

Our current models of physics can't tell you what happened at the instant or describe happenstance "before" time.

Science is a broad term by which a person makes unbiased observations. You don't need to BELIEVE anything. Did you know that many of the first scientists, or natural philosophers, studied the stars from churches?

Another example of phenomenon that is left chiefly unexplained by science is the role of non-coding RNA in cells. Not all RNA is translated into protein, but we have an incredibly limited grasp of what purpose it serves. The objective of science is much more centered about critical analysis of observation.

>>35161340
The universe always existed. For as long as there has been space there has been time. It is illogical to say there was a before the beginning of time.

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>>35161093
>tfw this is exactly what happened
>tfw I know the secrets of the universe but too smart to tell them to out loud without first getting payed

>>35161360
Time exists separately in its own dimension.. we livd in a 3d world.. up/down, left/right, backward/forward. Time is the 4th dimension permeating all of the 3d ones.. Time doesnt factor into this.

>Tfw too intelligent to believe
> tfw I want to believe

Religion is cool but im already lying to myself at max capacity. Whats the coolest religion? Catholicism has a saint for every occasion but protestantism is so minimalistic and chill. Can I get like a half and half of Jesus and Buddha?

>>35161360

Time didnt exist before the big bang is my point

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>>35161407
That doesn't sound right but I don't know enough about multi/metaverse theory to disprove it.

>>35161450
Rastafarianism is like that

>>35161452
Which is what I said. There isn't a "before" the universe. Even if it had a "start point" it has always existed.

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>>35161093
>tfw not intelligent enough to avoid an internet fight from the least informed, least qualified armchair philosophers

Deism master race

>>35161258
>this really high IQ chess dude

As credible a source as any.

>>35161314
because I'm not some sub-80 iq sand person.

>>35161268
Hey don't talk about aliens, string theory, and multiverse theory that way!

>>35161351
Does that mean our current model of physics is flawed or needs to be updated when, and if, our technology allows us? What if we never reach that point? Can we leave the question open and just "accept" that space and time just happened at one point?

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>tfw to intelligent too think god doesn't exist

>>35161496
How could the universe have "always existed" if it's only 14 billions years old?

>>35161474
Its all still theory, its just which ones are more mathematically inclined to branch quantum mechanics to relativity, which is what string theory aims to do. They want to quantize gravity to find dark matter or to better identify it.

Theres no particle matter of gravity, the missing link between macro/micro worlds

>>35161615
Because there was no time when the universe didn't exist. If time itself has only existed for as long as the universe has then there is no before the universe for the universe to not exist in.

Its difficult to grasp the concept of nothingness, but thats the key. Its not a void. It is less than that. There was no nothingness for anything to come from.

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>there was a time when the universe existed but there was nothing alive to experience it

That's so weird to me, all of it existence just hanging there, existing, but it being completely empty. Something just being there without even a subjective purpose.

>>35161567
Unfalsifiable is different than unproven.

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>>35161238
>MY claims can make no sense and be retarded because I say so
It's called occams razor

>>35161670
That makes sense, but couldn't it be possible that the current universe existed under a different form "before" that and it "restarted"? Even if this was true what good would it make to us? It would just turn the question to "what was before that universe" instead.

>>35161297
1. Whatever begins to exist has a cause;
2. God began to exist;
Therefore:
3. God has a cause.
Prove it wrong.

>>35161093
>tfw too intelligent to believe that one explosion created everything and too intelligent to believe that there's a god for sure

I see just as much evidence for the big bang as I see for god honestly

they're both just conjecture honestly

What if the universe colapses on it self as everything eventually gets sucked into a black hole and then all the black holes join up and form a ultimate black hole that just sits there becoming denser and denser untill it reaches singularity and explodes into a new universe? Whats to say this is the first universe?

>>35161312
again: occams razor.
"the universe exists" is more simple than "an infinitely complex being exists and then made the universe"

>>35161093
Literally every possible (and seemingly impossible) situation has, does, and will occur at all times and for all time, an infinite number of times, so this existence is simply a single iteration of a single instance of one reality out of infinitely many others. The universe is a swirling, whirling sphere of infinite probability. We are the wave function collapsing itself. The Trinity is correct in that dark and light, existence and nonexistence, 0 and 1, come together to form a whole sum which is greater than its parts, i.e. being, not being, and the cycle between them. A point is drawn into a line which circles back onto itself as an Ouroboros, which then itself may either be collapsed into a point or also drawn out into a line. All the strings of the universe are made up of this. They hide between the cracks where they can't be found - they both stem from and are the rounding error of infinite series. Regression to expression, procession to succession. The hum, the Ohm, is the vibration of this cycle, endlessly repeating. The light thinks it has outsmarted the darkness by continuing to stem from nothing and be, endlessly, for all eternity. However, the darkness, too, feels more clever, as it knows that it is all that is left when there is nothing, and is paradoxical in its nature, being both infinite and void.

This just sort of came to me in a huge rush, all at once. Do with it what you may, interpret its source as you will. I am simply providing it to you here; I am no more than a Messenger. (That capitalized on its own and gave no option for a lowercase 'm' - just saying.)

>>35161744
I don't know or care if the universe is a cycle. I'm fine calling 14 billion years ago the beginning. Nobody has proven there was a before the big bang. As a layman I am fine with saying the universe isn't eternal but has always been around. Cause like you just said what good does it do us to think of a universe before us or an illogical entity outside our own logical concepts that haven't been proven to have happened.

>>35161755
That's where you're wrong. God did not come from anywhere.

No one made the Creator of the universe. He had no beginning, and will have no ending. He is the eternal, self-existing Being.

Before the material creation was spoken into existence, he always was (Psa.90:2).

God's existence is underived; no one made him. He simply always was.

>>35161834
Well that's just word salad.

>>35161494
But im white. Dont rastafarians believe white people are literally demons who killed black jesus and made him white to steal him from them or some shit? Also reggae is over rated.

>>35161834
>The Bible is true because the Bible says so

I could just as easily say that the Universe has beginning or end.

>>35161884
*No beginning or end

>>35161834
That's where you're wrong. The singularity did not come from anywhere.

No one made the the singularity at the beginning of the universe. It had no beginning, and will have no ending. It is the eternal, self-existing thing.

Before the material creation was spoken into existence, it always was (A Brief History of Time).

The singularities existence is underived; no one made it. It simply always was.

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>>35161834
>The universe did not come from anywhere

>no one made the universe. There was no before it, and will be no after it. It is the eternal.

Look I can do it too! And mine makes more sense and is simpler cause we know the universe exists but don't know that your bullshit exists!

>>35161755
This is belief. No empirical measurement. Learning natures laws are more important thdn centering your argument on creationism. Creationism is centered on the human condition to the point it denies nature. It makes humans feel "in control" and more significant. Whdn in fact, we are nothing more than a cosmic accident of random chance. God isnt real. Simply an explanation to something you couldnt even begin to understand. Its just easier, thats why religion exists

>>35161568
If we had a complete model of physics, it would completely detail every field down to sociology down to the quark. Schrodinger said that he was disappointed in the state that he left quantum physics (e.g. Schrodinger's cat). So yes, it's flawed and therefore we don't know what happened at the instant of the big bang.

When we get new technology, we can test our hypotheses based on it. If a hypothesis remains the simplest way to reconcile every piece of evidence that we have, then it will have been strengthened by further observation. If there is contradictory evidence, another hypothesis will be developed, tested and retested.

We *can* do anything we want with observations. We *can* shoot off so many nukes that humans are no longer the dominant species. If you want to get at the question of the instant of the big bang from a scientific point of view, then you could develop a hypothesis. It needs to be testable, but you could make one, get funding and do an experiment to confirm it.

>>35161925
>>35161922
Ok so you are saying that you chose to put your Faith into a big explosion because you can't accept God?

>>35161699
>Scientist believe what they want to and find a way to justify it so long as it isn't God.

>>35161944
The Big Bang wasn't an explosion. It was an expansion over billions of years. Research this shit before you make yourself look like a retard.

>>35161945
More like a timeless spaceless disembodied all powerful being doesn't make sense as a cocept.

Idk about string theory or whatever but aliens are believable because we exist and the universe is huge. We still have to find the aliens to prove them. Just like we have to prove any theory beyond any competeing theory.

>>35161944
If their has to be a first underived "thing" it's simpler to say that it's a single, energetic event, as opposed to a fully sentient being.

>>35161944
Also there is observable evidence for the big bang.

>>35161967
Whatever it was it must have had a beginning that to this day cannot be proven. So you are putting your faith into a scientific theory on the hope that one day there will be irrefutable proof that it is in fact true because you cannot accept God.

>>35161994
For me it's the other way around. It is simpler to believe an all -powerful god created the world and gave us sentient souls rather than some random coincidence happened that resulted into our minds.

>>35161093
Hahahahaha

You believe people have 'souls'....

Pathetic.....

Weird

>>35161944
I didn't choose shit. I doubt that god exists. I have never seen a good reason to restart believing in god. I am content with what we have, even if it means not knowing everything. I am open to change my current beliefs. But the cosmological argument is not a good argument, and certainly not proof.

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>>35161283
>yuh just gotta have faith xDDD
>Implying that faith is a reliable pathway to truth

I could easily use the "yuh just gotta have faith man LEL KEK XD" for ANY religion, and it would hold just as much water as yours. It's like tossing a coin. Let's say that heads is the right answer, and tails isn't. If I could toss a coin and get a right or wrong answer, then tossing a coin probably isn't a reliable pathway to truth. Now sub out the coin toss for Christianity and the thousands of different religions. I've now got a 1 in a thousand chance of picking the right religion using "muh faith", which might I add is far worse than a coin toss.

>>35162034
forgot your fedora

>>35162025
A)It pretty much has been proven. Unlike the absolutely zero evidence for god.
B)You're just wrong by, your own belief system God is more complex than the universe.

>>35161870
I don't know. But I do see it being much more about feeling divinity in a minimalist/reality based sense than lying to yourself about angels and demons.

I'm just making a suggestion.

>>35162062
This. I don't understand why I should have faith in Jesus when I could have faith in, say, Thor. For some reason we don't need a bunch of special pleadings and arguments when we say Thor isn't real.

>>35162078
And we've now devolved to this.

>>35161834
What the fuck are you talking about? You seriously think that God is plausible and then believe that God is the most grandiose entity? That is some textbook backward thinking.

>>35162062
There's a good argument about Christianity being the true religion because its followers are mostly in Europe and Europe dominates the world and it is partly because of their devotion. Now people are getting away from religion and look at what's happening.

>>35161093
Tfw too intelligent to believe there was nothing then one day a random guy with a beard created the universe along with all life and souls
Check mate NSA

>>35162100
>I don't understand why I should have faith in Jesus when I could have faith in, say, Thor
Not many Thor churches around. Maybe that tells you something.

>>35162109
Civilization is at its all-time best point by all reasonable measures.

>>35162109
East Asians are almost exclusively Atheist, and they're countries are doing just fine. Religion doesn't mean shit.

>>35162109
This is just the bandwagon fallacy. Are the Chinese becoming more religious? If not, why are they becoming a world superpower?

>>35162109
>>35162134
So politics?

Basically chance based on who started where and did what?

>>35162156
East Asians never conquered and colonized the entire planet and they suck american cock

>>35162134
No, it doesn't.
hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

>>35162134
Yeah, because the Christians fucking slaughtered all the Pagans. Just like the Muslims.

>>35162134
Yeah, religions die out.

>>35162159
because Christians are abandoning their faith in the Christian God so they are being punished

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>>35162146
If things keep going aas they are, there won't be a "civilization" soon...

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>tfw when everyone who makes "too intelligent for x" is actually retarded

>>35162109
>it's followers are mostly in Europe
>Europe dominates the world
>therefore it's the right religion

You're kidding right? That's your reasoning ?

>>35162179
>because the Christians fucking slaughtered all the Pagans. Just like the Muslims.
Whose God was more powerful? And are you saying the Muslims murdered pagans or the other way around?

>>35162190
So then I should just encourage Christians to abandon their faith so that I will be rewarded as part of God punishing them.

>>35162234
Muslims murdered the Pagans of Arabia and Iran, just as the Christians murdered all the Pagans of Europe.

>>35162235
I know you're being sarcastic but that's unironically the communist's plan. Attack people's beliefs and their families. Sweden is the most Atheist country in Europe and it's the rape country in the world.

>>35162203
Could you elaborate on that?
The picture proves nothing.

>>35162261
Isn't the rape done by religous refugees though?

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>>35161093
>tfw all of these meaningless Athiest vs. Theist arguments could be settled if god just came down and showed us he exist

>tfw he'd rather play hide and seek

>>35162290
They are muslim refugees. Not christian.
Communists killed 20 million Christians in Russia and that is why hitler wanted to remove all the Jews from germany in the pre-ww2 era.

>>35162323
Thats not how it works brother
>tfw all of these meaningless Athiest vs. Theist arguments could be settled if a singularity happened once in our faces and showed us it can happen
>tfw took the easy route and made up a bs excuse

>>35162376
Don't call me brother. You're not my brother you faggot cock sucking sheep fuck.

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>explosions create conciousness and emotions in living beings
>athiests call creationists the crazy ones

>>35162376
What the fuck, anon. A singularity can't expand and happen and go all full big bang unless there is no spacetime, silly. This is basic stuff. When there is no time, a probability - even if it is approaching zero - will happen instantaneously.

>>35162446
This has to be trolling, holy fuck. No one can be this retarded

>>35162323
That's the whole point of religion. To have faith. If God could just come down and tell us "See? I'm real" then it would be like forcing everyone to believe in him, because if you don't you go to to hell.
If he doesn't show up you are free to believe in him or not.

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>>35162446
>atheists actually believe random explosions created a world as beautiful and full of life as ours "by coincidence"

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>>35161093
>tfw to intelligent too believe in atheism

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>>35162516
>tfw too intelligent to believe things aren't real when there is no proof of them

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>>35162480
Justify your sentiment my child

>>35162484
Read>>35162062
I'm not going over this faith bull shit again.

>>35162598
Ridiculing your opposition is not an argument

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>tfw entelegent enough too know christianity is wrong

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>an infinite universe was created by a miracle but we dont understand how so we'll just call it a singularity and offer no further information on the topic
>religion is a bad thing because it teaches to be good but we'll rile up some do gooders to spur our movement
>fuck off mom I'm 13 I don't need a bedtime anymore

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>>35162484
>if god could just come and tell us "See? I'm real" then it would be like forcing everyone to believe in him, because if you don't you go to to hell.
If he doesn't show up you are free to believe in him or not.

Wow...you're actually retarded.
How the fuck would that be forcing? You'd still have the free will to choose to serve him or not to serve him.

I know you guys are trolling, but the knowledge that some people actually, GENUINELY believe the shit you're spewing physically pains me.

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>>35162666
>no YOUR wrong lalalalalalalal I'm not listening lalalalalallalalalalalla

>>35162655
God wants us to know Him in an intimate way through love and not compulsion.
God's terrible insistence on human freedom is so absolute that he granted us the power to live as though he did not exist, to spit in his face, to crucify him

>>35162629
I'm not ridiculing your opposition. I'm simply saying I've already discussed why faith isn't a pathway to truth, so I was directing you to the post in which I discussed it. And if you actually read the post, which clearly you didn't, you could easily have faith in any other religion, and it would hold just as much water as the argument you're giving for Christianity. Faith is NOT an argument for truth. AT ALL.

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>>35162666
>tfw to intelegent too realize I'm a douchebag

Atheism is the easiest religion to bait

>>35162703
I did read your original post and replied to it in >>35162109

>>35162701
I understand all of that. My question is what reason do I have to believe that a god exist in the first place. All you theist are offering is the issue of faith, which is an unreliable method to truth.

>>35162731
What you replied wasn't an arguement. In short, you basically gave a fallacious argument, based on the fact that majority of Europeans are Christians, and most Europeans rule the world or some shit like that, which by the way has nothing to do with wether or not the belief is true.

>>35162783
Who else was going to create the universe?

>people actually believe in the big bang
Do you even realize that the only proof for Big Bang is the hubble law, which doesn't always hold up?

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Reply to my post and I will pray for you

>>35162868
Even if this were true - which it isn't - it doesn't matter.

In science, one takes all of the available evidence, utilizes it in order to form theories, and then takes those theories in order to attempt to make predictions. If these predictions hold up, that evidence is added to the theory overall. If even a single one doesn't hold up, that invalidates the theory and scientists have to create a new one which conforms to all available evidence. So science could and would accept God (immediately and wholeheartedly) if there were even the slightest shred of evidence to support His (Its, really? It's not really a 'He' per se) existence.

Trust me, I'd fucking love for your God to be real, if only for the amount of triggering It would cause.

>>35162844
Ah, so essentially what you're describing is the god of the gaps fallacy. You're saying "Hmmmm, I don't know how X happened, therefore God did it!". Try again.

>>35162962
Might as well reply to (You).

>>35163042
>your argument has a name therefore it's wrong

>>35163021
That's the point, it doesn't hold up. Big bang is based on the observation that redshift is linear dependent on distance, this empirical law doesn't hold up, so it should have been discarded.

my philosophy class covered all this shit with deductive reasoning and basically it came down to
>le u cand no nuffin :DDD
just like everything else.

Whether or not you believe in God, how life all started is something that really makes me think. Is life eternal? Has it always had no beginning? Does it have no end? Or did something like the big bang start it?

I mean, where was everything that started the big bang, before the big bang? Is this all there is? Are we in a simulation, or is this as real as it gets?

>>35162666
>GENUINELY believe the shit you're spewing physically pains me.

Are you talking about believing in God, or believing in the Big Bang? Both are religions. Since you have 666 trips, I'm guessing you're a fedora tipping atheist. God reveals himself with 77777s and 3333s for great posts, like the prophecy of Trump.

How do religious people rationalize that there were tons of religions before theirs that they think are absurd but somehow the religion they believe in is correct?

>>35163115
Space is expanding exponentially, anon.

X amount of space begins expanding from all points, so that there's now 2X space available, which expands from all points, and so on and so forth. So maybe that's what's causing the issue you think is there?

>God is eternal. He wasn't created.
You could say the same thing about the universe you retards.

>>35163090
>your FALLACY has a name therefore it's wrong

Fixed that for you. God of the gaps is a fallacy and not an argument.

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>>35161329
nah, i think the point of God is that he's the initial cause, like he's what precedes causality, you feel

>>35163090
Also I wanted to add this, you mentioned earlier "Who else was going to create the universe?"
By using those words "Who" and "Create" you're implying there's a creator to begin with, when the case may very well be that there is no creator. You're injecting the very thing you're trying to prove into your argument. That's literally circular reasoning.

I never understood what it was with theist and this desire to know everything. Let me tell you something buddy, you're not obligated to know anything. Sometimes "I don't know" is the best answer. It's ok not to have an explanation. Because you know what? It gives us an excuse to go out and find the explanation, and when we do find the explanation, we'll know for good reasons supported by evidence, and not "Oh wel idk it must've been god xD" That's what science is all about. Instead of relying on Zeus and Aztec gods, were learned that lightning is just electrical energy traveling from a charged cloud to the ground, or vise versa. We learned that a solar eclipse is just the moon passing in front of the sun casting its shadow on the earth.

>>35163291
The only evidence for expansion is hubbles law. Objects that have higher redshift are classified as further away. The problem is, some objects that are physically linked together have vastly different redshifts.

as far as theories go, God is the best explanation.

Even a non-omniscient God, one that is solely a creator and just lets the universe do as it pleases.

>>35163042
This is typical atheist misconception of religion. God of the gaps is an atheist strawman. This is not an argument of I don't know how the sun goes around, must be God.
This is an argument about whether the universe had a cause or not.

>>35164207

at this point, i don't think it's a misconception. they just say 'god of the gaps' every time someone mentions the formation of the universe as a scapegoat.

Really the only evidence we have for or against God is the universe itself. Either the universe is standalone with no creator, or there is a creator that oversees reality as we know it.

And even if whatever that created the universe is also an inhabitant, a few other things don't add up.

-how does a finite being design a universe that infinite concepts can occur? stuff like pi, or the square root of 2
-would a being be constrained to our laws of physics? stuff like the speed of light, gravity, strong/weak nuclear forces, etc. they would likely have to be separate from the laws/forces we know in order to mediate it
-our universe is (no argument here) fundamentally perfect. it is predictable and repetitive. water boils at 100*c at sea level, 2+2=4, and elements combine to make other elements. but would a creator need to be perfect in order to create a perfect system?

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>>35161093
Big Bang theory was first proposed by a Catholic priest (Georges Lemaitre)
>inb4 Catholic not real Christianity

>>35164207
Can you mind your own fucking business? Did you even read what he said ? I asked "What reasons do I have to believe a god exist?" And he literally replies "Well who else created the universe ?" That by definition God of the Gaps. God is his explanation for the creation of the universe because he can't find a better one, when the answer may very well be that WE DONT HAVE THE EXPLANATION! Why not wait until there's sufficient evidence?

is it true that for all of the matter in the universe, there has to be an equal amount of the absence of matter? i heard that somewhere. i guess it makes sense. would the universe not work if it weren't this way?

>>35164351
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Catholic_cleric-scientists

He's got a lot of company in the whole Christian Scientist department.

>>35164376
You misunderstand the entire point and unfortunately I don't know how to explain it to you.
The difference is it is not about the mechanics of the universe but about the cause behind it.
I also don't see a reason for you to get this upset.

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>>35161093
Time is a lie
Everything that is, has been always in one form or another
Because matter is constantly changing, vibrating etc we get the illusion of time
There is no time, there is just matter and the space between them, and energy etc
>Look shadows change shape, lets measure the movement of sun and call it absolute

There was shit, then there is different shit and after few rotations of planets there will be different shit 2.0
It is made from the same shit that already was, but it is in different shape or form

We are retarded fish things, that became ape things, that became bipedal ape things, that then decided that sounds the sky makes are super scary and we have to sacrifice our young so the sky stops being scary

Nothing was made because it was always there, there is no creator because we made him / her/ it up to feel better about the scary sounds the sky makes

Time is a lie, creator is a lie, reality is only experienced through senses which can provide false information, love is a chemical reaction that we get addicted to

So enjoy your life as a scared ape 2.0 that worships the scary sky thing that makes clouds go boom

>>35162376

Except that's how he did that shit back in bible times apparently. He couldn't go more than 5 minutes without shaking his dick in peoples faces or flooding the entire world with an impossible flood.

Oh let me guess, now that we know these stories are bullshit and heaven isn't actually in the clouds it's a metaphor.

>>35164565

do you want a cookie?
>guys i just left philosophy 101, there is no time

duh, it's all just change, Delta, shit flowing around at all times.

you sappy little 'it's all meaningless' posters are dumb.

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Hell it is more likely that life in earth evolved from Alien feces that some ancient meteor hurled to earth
Or that back in neanderthal days there were some Ayy lmao hillybillys that fucked the ape things and we are some fucked up hybrids

>>35164648
Religion is meaningless, the rest have the meaning you and those around you give it

>God is all powerful and all knowing
>For some reason it is important to him that I, a retarded mortal with no power at all, have faith and worship him


I'm not buying it

>>35164772
It's never said that it's important, if you do, you go to heaven, if you don't, you'll not go. Simple

It's like lawn, if you don't follow it, you'll go to jail. Only it's permanent and ther IS a good side

>>35164664

i said 'life is meaningless', you brought religion into it.

>>35164772

it seems more like 'here are some tips to help your race prosper. don't kill each other, don't steal, don't lie, don't be greedy, don't sleep around, and if you find someone then just try to make that one person happy'

I don't wanna think there's nothingness after we die. If we live to just come to this world to die shy we were here at the first place

>>35161278
Wrong. God created a paradise, humans fucked it up with free will. Sin and pain and death are wrought by man, not the Lord.

>>35161805
to be fair, God is thought of as being very simple. 'Being' itself, in many words. Muslims believe in a God with 99 names promising supreme, yet simple essence. Much less bewildering than the universe. It's an easier concept for people to wrap their head around than whatever Laurence Krause will tell you.

>>35161297
To say that cause is an omnipotent, thinking, all-knowing, intelligent, sentient god that 'created' the Universe through means of what seems like natural chance thus nullifying his own necessity for existence is a long shot. That cause could be non-sentient, non-knowing, unthinking action which was the result of spontaneity. Which it's looking like it was. All actions and reactions seemingly have no will or purpose so there's not even a NEED for a god

>>35161340
>Says god is an 'energy'
>Energy is measured and quantifiable
>Energy isn't sentient or alive
>Says this because his feelings tell him so and not based on evidence

>>35162446
>Explosions
You are the crazy one if you believe it was an explosion
>It's an explosion because it's called The Big BANG
Anyway
>create consciousness and emotions in living beings
>Implying consciousness and emotions need a god to exist
If god exist, why make it look like he doesn't?

>>35162630
>Has to create characters to 'disprove Atheism'
>All creationists shit arguments are this fucking stupid

>>35163753
The fallacy fallacy, bro, look it up

>>35165105
This.

CRUSADE

>>35165105
God could have not given us free will or not put a fucking tree with fruit he didn't want a human made from dust and a human made from that dirt human's rib eating so still his fault

>>35164863
>These are things some other human told you to do claiming a god said just like every god claim ever

>>35161407
>DISCUSSION ON THE BEGINNING OF THE UNIVERSE
>TIME DOES NOT FACTOR INTO THIS

ALSO, TIME IS NOT THE "4TH DIMENSION". IT SHOULDN'T BE GROUPED ALONG WITH THE SPATIAL DIMENSIONS UNLESS YOU NEED IT FOR SOME SPECIFIC EQUATION OR PURPOSE. YOU MIGHT AS WELL SAY THAT TEMPERATURE, COLOR, OR SHITTINESS IS THE FOURTH DIMENSION.

>>35161172

This is the correct response

>>35161093

Is there anyone here who genuinely doesn't believe in the big bang and has questions or anyone who simply wants to know more about it?

If anyone actually wants to have a discussion ask away. I'm tired of cancer threads.

>>35161297

According to the monkey brain schema of you. We've clearly seen that physics diverge from consistent patterns in macroscopic physics. Quantum physics completely shits on this conceptualization of the universe but is very clearly a real thing.

The reality is that there may not have ever been a need of something to cause our universe. There may be something beyond your universe (probably true) with infathomable physics.

The idea that the universe had to be caused is utterly unsubstantiated. There are mathematics and physics which suggest the opposite.

>>35161360

This is a possibility, anon but any sensible cosmologist will tell you that when it comes to the origins of the big bang and beyond that we don't really know a whole lot but we do have some good theories.

>>35167752
I like how people like you try to act like Cosmologists will agree with creationists and Theists about the origin of the Universe just because you think they don't know enough about it. Fuck off with your bullshit

>>35161268
Nothing can be proven because reality is subjective.

So you literally don't believe in anything?

>>35161093
>Tfw you're too intelligent to commit to the dogmatic belief that the earth is golbe when planes don't fly over the antarctic.
>When you've read Capitain cooks log on his journey around the south pole where he wrote it was way larger than the circumfrance Google Earth says it has
>Even in cases where they'd save time
>Even when all the countries that share the antarctic have a positive/open position on the IAST agreement.

>>35161884
The Bible isn't just one book.

>>35167787

I am not imying they will agree. I think creationism is retarded and that god don't real. I am just saying that cosmology is a science and so it's purview on exactly how our universe came to be is not all encompassing.

>>35162109
It means christianity is a strong political system for social cohesion, but it has no implications on the existence of a god.

>>35168076

The best stance right now is to simply understand that we don't know enough about how to universe was created / why it exists / where it exists to make any solid theories about it.

>>35167836

Just looking at a few maps, the Antarctic (including the sea around it) looks massive, though. Would you actually save time that way? From what I've heard it takes a long flight just to get above Antarctica. Aren't there other issues like temperature and winds being much less stable over Antarctica? Also, the lack of any previous routes or civilisation below it makes it a lot harder for flight-paths to have emerged that way.

Pastafarianism answers all the questions you have about the universe

ITT people who don't know shit about physics try to sound smart

For starters, it's stupid to say
>there was nothing and then there was the big bang
Because it implies chronology. It implies there was a time before the big bang when there was nothing. And that's just fucking retarded because time is just another dimension and it started the same as the other three main ones: with the explosion.

So there was no
>before the big bang
Because time didn't exist.

Alas why it's also retarded to imply that you need a creator to "create" (verb, implied tense, implied time) the big bang itself. And also thus comes the question of who created the creator.

Brainlet religiousfags btfo. There's no god and if there was, it would be nothing like you child stories tell you.

>>35161567
String theory and many-worlds aren't even accepted in the physics community. Aliens are considered probable, but that's a different thing from claiming to have proof they exist.

>>35168313

I think you're making a reasonable point, but I see the problem as one of people being overly focused on a certain model of creation and what God is.

The issue for me is that I know I didn't create myself, and I know i'm not responsible for many of the actions outside my body, and even inside my body, or actions taking place in the past before I was conscious, etc. So I see myself as something that has been created from without. It would be absurd to say that my parents 'created' me, because their involvement in this process was minimal - neither have a very deep understanding of anatomy, let alone have any knowledge of the complexity of what went in to forming me.

So I was created by something else... some sort of process that seems to have intelligence to it... why not call the ultimate 'source' or 'apex' of this process of creation, God?

Is it possible that the world as we know it and as we can observe it through telescopes appears to have been created at a set point in the past, but that something eternal brought the cosmos as we knew it into being?

I know this doesn't answer the...but who created THAT question... but maybe that's well beyond us at this point. What I do have is strong evidence suggesting God.

>>35163877
Causality is literally a redundancy and is never observed, only presumed. The only thing we have evidence for is certain phenomena proceeding others in certain patterns, but there's no real evidence for a causal link.

>>35161093
Energy gets created out of nothing
There is energy far away from all the matter in the universe
Logical explanation for the big bang is a shitton of energy that caused an explosion

>>35165105
>>35161278
suffering is a part of life, it leads to a greater enjoyment.

>>35168580
>suffering is a part of life
Yes
>it leads to a greater enjoyment
You idiot

>>35168562
Complexity =/= Intelligence

You're basically claiming that life as a process is god. Life isn't intelligent though. It's a very simple process whose basic input is to replicate and spread. In order to do this, life uses the trial and error method (which is extremely inefficient and energy consuming). The only reason why you look around and get astonished by "the marvellous creation" of life/god, is because life has had 4 billion years to try a fucking ton of different things and evolution (aka survival of the most adaptable) has cleaned up after life. Hell, hadn't life somehow extended into setience with humans, there may be nobody at all to look back and be surprised (like it was for billions of years).

>>35168562
>So I was created by something else... some sort of process that seems to have intelligence to it

>what is Evolution.

Just because Evolution is too complex for you/you are too uneducated doesn't mean that an intelligent force designed humans

>>35168700
Meant to say sapience, not setience

>>35168700

>Complexity =/= Intelligence

Doesn't complexity usually indicate intelligence?

I'm claiming that the entire act of creation is an intelligent process. After all - the universe contains intelligence, doesn't it? It contains us, so the capacity for intelligence of at the very least our level exists within the structure of the cosmos, right? The systems (like the movement of objects in space, the laws of chemistry, biology, genetics, evolution) that underlie our existence are all intelligent systems of a lower order. They transmit information, react to that information, form self-sustaining systems, etc. Your body as it's functioning right now relies on these systems and you have no idea how to control this, it's under the direction of systems of intelligence well beyond us.

>>35168710

Evolution seems like an intelligent process if you observe it over time. It's led to higher and higher forms of life, and now conscious, self-aware intelligence.

>>35167836
>Fat and stupid anon
Fixed

>>35168787
I think you're looking at it the wrong way. As I said before complexity =/= intelligence. Had the law that govern us be the slightest different, you wouldn't be here to talk about how wonderful the process is.

You're the conclusion of an unmensurable numbler of variables set to a certain point and 6.5 billion years of existance. There's no magic in there. Just because you're here that doesn't make you special or the process itself. Had things been a little bit different, maybe it would be an alien creature and not us who would look back in awe. Or maybe it would be a barren wasteland.

At this point anyone posting about sky pixies is clearly a troll.

>>35168974

You seem to be making all sorts of suggestions about alternate universes and alternate possibilites, which are impossible for me to address because they're just hypothetical.

The reality is that I exist, that I have a degree of intelligence, that my body has its own intelligence even if I were braindead, that the cells in my body have their own intelligence, that chemical systems work intelligently, and so on - and that the system as a whole is like a very intelligent machine or structure producing consciousness.

>>35169085
If alternate universes aren't a possibility, then it becomes even less magical. What's surprising/interesting about what was always going to be like it is? It talks even less about intelligence. No creativity there, no playing with variables.

And you're missing the point anyway. I wasn't implying alternate universe exist, I was saying that you're the conclusion of a process and it's stupid and narcissistic to say that such a process is intelligent because you're here. First of all because intelligence is a spectrum, not a quality. Being a spectrum, you always need something to compare, i.e, X is more intelligent than Y and less intelligent than Z. So in order to claim that a process is intelligent, you'd have to compare it with other processes. Now if you believe that other processes were never a possibility, then you can't claim your process is intelligent in the sense that there's nothing to compare and it was always determined to be. Much like you don't call intelligent a rock because it's hard and thus resist when you throw it, it's just a rock.
Now if other processes were a possibility, then you have to pick your criteria to measure that intelligence. The criteria you're choosing is, tbqh, quite egocentric, being that you say the process is intellugent because YOU are here. God bless.

I think you are lacking both some humity and science-like thinking here.

>>35161093

You are doing it wrong newfaggot

>too

>>35169241

I'm using myself and my own intelligence as an example. Most of us would probably agree that human intelligence is one type of intelligence that's probably more powerful than the intelligence of any other species. How is it 'egocentric' to point out that human intelligence and self-awareness are the highest things in the universe that we're aware of? I wasn't limiting this to my own intelligence, I wasn't dismissing the possibility of super-intelligent aliens.

I'm saying... everything points to an intelligent creator, everything points to purpose.

>>35162323

>"A wicked generation that keeps asking for a sign"

It's like you don't understand the word faith by definition

>>35169354
Again missing the point, as I said, intelligence needs to be compared. You'd need other processes to compare it too. Either you say that other process don't exist, in which case you can say this process is *intelligent* or you accept that other process exist/might be possible and need a better criteria to measure intelligence than YOU being here.

Why do you need a different criteria? Because if you're accounting for different processes existing/being able to exist, then you need to accept that there are/could be other beings who are vastly superior to us, making our process rather stupid when compared to other ones.

How do you not get this? It's lik you willingly ignore all that is implied when you state something.

And no, it doesn't point to a creator more than it points to no creator just because you want to.

>>35169430

>Again missing the point, as I said, intelligence needs to be compared...

I'm sorry, I'm having trouble understanding you. I don't think you're explaining your position well.

Look, we exist and we have this word 'intelligence', right? We recognise intelligence when we see it, we recognise evidences of intelligence too... like if you found writing somewhere, even if you didn't understand the language, except for rare occasions - most of the time you'd be able to say "A human did this!".

In the same way, the universe is incredibly ordered. One event leads to another, everything appears to obey a sort of logic, and this logic has created a situation where something as amazing as a human being exists - so the universe not only has the potential within it for the existence of this concentrated form of intelligence... but the systems that bring this concentrated form of intelligence into being are ... intelligent, to lesser degrees, but certainly intelligent. They are just so hidden and deep and long-term, that a human being can't hope to comprehend these systems.

Now think of your consciousness and what it relies on, this 'architecture' of the universe must come together at some point, right? It all leads towards some sort of super-intelligence. The thing 'grand formula' in a sense.

>>35166418
A mind is several orders of magnitude more complex than simple laws of physics.

We have been able to simulate physics with astonishing accuracy, but have yet to create an AI rivaling human intelligence

Religious people believe we were created in god's image. Therefore they believe god has a mind. And minds are not simple

Calling those who believe the universe arose out of nothing foolish is hypocritical, as you yourself believe something much more complex has simply always existed

>>35169538
Okay so I found two things that may explain to you why you can't understand what I'm saying

1) You've an outdated definition of intelligence. As I said before, intelligence is a spectrum, not a simple quality. You need to be able to COMPARE. We consider humans "intelligent" in the sense that we have sapience, but that's not the real definition of intelligence. It'd be correct instead to affirm that humans are probable the MOST intelligent species in this planet, i.e, we compare ourselves to other creatures (others of our kind) and say: "yes, under this criteria, we can say that we're more intelligent".

Now, back to my point. When you say this process/life/god whatever you want to call this order-like system is "intelligent", you're either saying that it's sapient (aka, like humans it knows itself, can judge, has wisdom, etc) or that it's MORE INTELLIGENT than other processes (others of its kind).
The first option is impossible to state whether its true or not, because we can't communicate with the process. We can observe it sure, much like you can observe sure much like, idk, how you can observe a human moving around, but you can't tell sapience without communication.
The second option, i.e, saying that it's intelligent because it's MORE INTELLIGENT than other processes, requires you to acknowledge the existence/possibility of existance of other processes more intelligent than our own. which pretty much kills this definition.

Futhermore, your definition of order is skewed in human terms. We define "order" in the sense that is good/allows human life of some sort. In the vast space of probabilities, there're countless possible universe were human life wouldn't be possible or universes we wouldn't be able to understand and WE (cause we're humans) would say that all these lack order.

1/2

>>35169728
You see now? You exist, therefore it's obvious that this process itself is order-like (in the sense that if favour human life). It's pretty ridiculous to observe the process and be astonished at its order when its obvious that this was a defining characteristic in the first place, because otherwise you wouldn't be here so be so astonished.

2)
>something as amazing as a human being exists
i.e what I said before about your egocentrical position, or rather, anthropocentric one. You're human, therefore you value human life above many other things. At the same time, you consider many other processes that don't have humans inferior, because they don't have humans. Humans are your criteria for stablishing "intelligence", i.e, you define an "intelligent process" as one that harbours human life. And that is simply biased and fallacious.

I think I can't be more clear than this. My brain is about to explode.

2/2

>>35162484
Except for the times when he showed up thousands of years ago and revealed himself to people. That doesn't count though.