who would you rather be? >genius scientist who changes the

>>34587683
*playing video games

originalbloxblxoboxox

>>34587683
First one without hesitation

>>34587771
Something is coming soon.

Videogame scientist

>>34587782
>>33587777
blup

>>34587807
>>34587777
Holy fucking shit I hate this world so much it's unbelievable

>>34587683
Second one without hesitation
Who cares if you're remembered for a few millennia?
Earth will go on for billions of years, the universe for trillions
Might as well enjoy your time. You and people who love you are the only ones who will ever appreciate it

>>34587683
Second without a doubt. It really doesn't matter if people remember me after my death, because I'll be dead. I'd rather enjoy my life as much as I can before I die.

>>34587830
You don't even realize what you've revealed about yourself, do you?

>>34587683
Second one, but I want to take advantage of whatever the first one makes.

Specifically I am content to be completely unknown for the rest of eternity as long as someone achieves human immortality.

>>34587830
>>34587848
The problem with humanity on display for all to see. It would be better for you not to exist.

>>34587683
Second. Fuck work

Changes the world in a nuclear weapons way or penicillin way?

Either way I'd say both lives are equally good, one would not pursue science or research without finding it at least fulfilling. It's all Amita Buddha.

>>34587683
First one, it's not work if you enjoy it.
original

>>34587888
You'd really say being completely unproductive is equally good for the world at large as making scientific discoveries?

>>34587922
I'm saying the path to liberation is eightfold.

>>34587884
Give me an actual good reason why I should work myself to death for the benefit of others. I do not long for fame. I don't see what I get out of it.

People like you are what's wrong with the world.

>>34587975
I'm interested in discussing this for the purpose of clarifying some of my own thoughts on the matter, but I don't want to waste my time typing if you're not going to respond. Are you down to answer some questions?

>>34587867
Exaggerating much?
Most people would rather have some free time for doing things even if they end up just sitting around not doing anything.

>>34588014
You are too mired in selfishness to be able to appreciate the answer. I will still give it if you insist. But you're also probably attached to the misguided metaphysical concept of there being looming "nothingness" in the future you get to look forward to. I haven't yet figured out how to shake people out of this particular superstition.

>>34588066
You can't give an actual answer because it really is all there is. If you die we may go to heaven, there might be nothing at all, but in the end it doesn't matter. You will not be there to enjoy the fruit of your labor after you die.

I'm willing to listen to any argument you have though.

>>34588113
I didn't give it in the last post because I was waiting to see if you'd be receptive. The argument rely on purely naturalistic axioms and is simply that a state of non-existence is a contradiction in terms and does not refer to aany actual possibility. From this, the assumption is that whatever experience is persists in whatever corners of the universe allows for it. Personal identity is largely an illusion; wherever a conscious system exists is where "you" find yourself. Therefore the amount of suffering that exists in totality is of the utmost importance to you, even if there's no apparent connection between this individual human life and the aggregate anguish in the universe. First time verbalizing this, so I'll clarify if you're interested.

>>34588176
I'm interested, go ahead.

>>34588176
This will inevitably be mistaken for superstition itself. I'm interested in finding out why people are so eager to resist this, so any engagement with my argument will provide valuable psychological data.

>>34587683
scientist of course, my lethal mass murder gas will not create itself

File: images.jpg (8KB, 300x168px) Image search: [Google]

8KB, 300x168px

Depends on how i would change the world as a scientist. If i found a way to go to anime world and stay alive forever there with your waifu then sure.
But if it's finding some shitty cure to some shit then i would go with second option.

>>34587683
I am the latter obviously.

Would rather be somewhere closer to the middle of a scale between the two but the first wouldn't interest me.

Fortune would be OK but fame i can do without even after I'm dead and oblivious to it.

>>34588176
>>34588197
While I understand your point about personal identity being an illusion, I don't understand how that disproves my point necessarily. I'm assuming that if you die, you lose your memories of your life before that. So while "you" would keep existing somewhere in the universe, you would still not be able to enjoy your own achievements right?

Maybe I'm not completely understanding your argument.

>>34588193
I gave it. Nothingness is not a state that can exist. The experience of nothingness simply doesn't refer to anything. Therefore, the opposite holds. Experience will always exist. There is no "you" which laid in wait from the beginning of time only to wake up for a century and return to darkness. This is projecting a human sense of identity where it doesn't make sense to imagine it. There are just discrete experiential states and some of them are connected to a system of memories which give the illusion of being a unified self. So anywhere in the universe where suffering exists matters because the boundaries between you and it are an illusion. Have a thought experiment in my next post.

>>34588306
The point is that you are adhering to the principles of self-interest that you seem to accept by reducing the possibility of suffering. It's not about the achievements or fame. It's like picking up glass on the floor before you get hammered so you don't fuck your shit up later.

>>34588308
I won't bother with the thought experiment because you seem to have understood what it would've pertained to, unless you're particularly interested. Again, if my argument holds, all possible experiential states become the focus of self-interest so you should work to reduce the possibility of those states being egregiously bad in the same way you do in the more prosaic instances.

>>34588443
Yes I understand, You're basically saying existence resembles the Sybil system from Psycho-Pass. I'm not sure if I can completely agree with the fact that the second option would be worse. I'll have to see if I can formulate it well in my next post.

>>34588525
Ok. I've never heard of that.

>>34588571
It's from an anime. It's pretty much a system of brains connected to each other. The brains have lost their identity and are actually just a big brain so to say.

http://psychopass.wikia.com/wiki/Sibyl_System

That might explain it better.

As for why I don't agree. While (if we assume what you say is true) identity is an illusion, it's still something you experience. Plus the fact that you equate changing the world to suffering. Also I argue that if every being would pick option two there would technically be no suffering at all.

And if progress is such a vital thing, what are we progressing to

That took longer to type out than I wanted it too, had trouble formulating my thoughts.

>>34588715
Thanks for the rec ill be watching it.
>Also I argue that if every being would pick option two there would technically be no suffering at all.
This is painly wrong. Some entities are so constituted that they suffer for the entirety of their existence. We are progressing to a world of perpetually diminishing suffering, or more ideally, the eradication of suffering. I very much doubt that's possible, though.

>>34588715
Not sure what you mean by the part before. I equate changing the world to suffering? No, I don't. My assumption that the "world changing" discoveries in OP would reduce suffering could certainly be called into question, but that's not really important. I am talking about science oriented to the purpose of understanding the nature of consciousness as instantiated in physical systems and the reduction of suffering therein. Work towards this is preferable to inaction because of the unbelievably high baseline of anguish present in nature.

>>34588800
Which entities are these?

While I don't believe life necessarily works like the way you describe it, I do think it's an interesting way of thinking of things. Did you think of this your self or did you base it off something else (aside from the physics/thermodynamics involved)?

>>34588800
*plainly
Also, try to imagine the possibility of more exotic conscious beings. Beings which have no means of interacting with the world or altering their own mental states. Beings which simply exist to suffer. There's no room for choice at all in this scenario. And they would be left to be tortured by your advice as all the capable beings forsake knowledge for idle hedonism.

>>34588892
http://www.naturalism.org/philosophy/death/death-nothingness-and-subjectivity This article by Thomas Clark was formative in my thinking on this matter. I resonated with it almost immediately, as I had spent my turbulent teen years in the throes of an existential crisis of sorts. The rest of what I'm talking about with respect to reducing suffering is just negative utilitarianism. Ill respond to the entities question in a sec

>>34588955
Also I think the philosophers Derek Parfit and Daniel Kolak present related theses but I haven't really engaged with their works.

>>34588848
The part before was an argument out of selfishness. Basically, whether or not identity is real or not, you still feel like you do have one. Saying people should not enjoy their time alive in a way they enjoy living seems like a type of suffering of these entities to me.

I understand that you wouldn't really agree with that, and that if everyone followed that way of thinking, there would be no progress.

>>34588892
Well, you could really just look at the bulk of nature and call it a day. There's no shortage of suffering beings no intelligence of their own to take refuge in. So help has to come from the outside in the form of people/AI/whatever doing the opposite of what you recommend. I really don't understand how you can say there would be no suffering if everyone just attempted to enjoy their own lives at the expense of an increased understanding of the world and the applications that would result.

>>34588955
Also I should say that while it seemed a balm to view the world this way at the time, as I've aged I have come to realize that this is actually a very pessimistic picture of existence. This comment is more aimed at those who would level the charge of this being "wishful thinking " at me. It's quite the opposite.

>>34589057
Well, imagine if every living thing could just enjoy the days they are alive. Even assuming there is no progress, it's seems to me that it's hard to suffer if you're enjoying your life.

And some people actually enjoy learning about the the world and the rest of existence. My recommendation does not exclude studying if that is truly what you enjoy doing.

>>34589031
You have to go with the option that promises the least amount of suffering. There is some suffering involved in intellectual exertion, yes, but by no means is it equivalent to the pain of being ripped apart by wild animals or tortured for a month in some sadist's cell. Which would continue to occur if every being with the option of choosing choice 2 (it's important to note "with the option" Some simply don't have it) did so. Maybe I'm missing the point of your post.

>>34589134
If every living thing could just enjoy the days of their lives, my goal would have already been realized. Progress could cease and that would be fine so long as suffering doesn't creep back in. The world isn't like that, though. Evolution creates organism that need to recoil from threats to reproduction, which entails pain (probably), which requires constant vigilance on the part of the intellectually well-endowed entities.

>>34589217
I was arguing more from a standpoint that option 2 is not inherently worse if every entity could make that choice.

But yes realistically that is not the case.

>>34587683
Genius scientist
No point in living if you don't understand what's going on

>>34589249
Yeah, from that obviously there would be no need for progress if there's already no suffering. I agree that progress for its own sake is misguided.

>>34587820
why did you link this?

>>34589328
I'm a monster who only cares about digits.

when you grow up video games become boring a fuck though

Biggest enjoyment in life comes from working hard towards some bigger goal. Shit like vidya makes you novelty junkie who needs constant external stimulation to feel anything, of course such things can be enough for small minds.