I've been with my girlfriend for over 8 years. I don't

just dump her lmao.

you aint gonna do it

>>34178504
You're dating an NPC, unfortunately, where you need to go through the motions. If she chooses the institute of marriage over your 8 years then could it be flimsy.

Shows that you're without a doubt committed. It means that she's giving away her prime fertile years to be with you and that she wants legal confirmation that you really love her want you want to stick around for a long time. The fact you don't want to get married will only make her anxious and reconsider whether or you'll run the second she gets too old.

Any girl that dates a guy for 10 years without getting married is an idiot.

Women want commitment and marriage is the ultimate and final symbol of that to them. Even though you gave eight years of your life to her it doesn't matter until you tied the knot. Personally I wouldn't do it because marriage is an outdated concept and really doesn't benefit the man but hey it's your choice not mine

>>34178504
I don't know man I've been with my gf for 6 years so I kind of feel where you're coming from.

The pressure isn't so much from her but other people. Literally any time I tell someone how long we've been together they ask why we aren't married.

Personally I don't know if I will ever get married. I'm not religious and I don't want kids so I don't really see the point. Maybe if I change my mind about kids I'll do it, but I don't think I will.

>>34178504

>be in a relationship for 8 years
>disagree on fundamental stuff like this

haha you fucked up

>have a girlfriend

get the fuck out

If something as innocuous as participating in some mating ritual is enough to throw away "true love," you're not really that much in love.

>>34178504
because she's a dumb normie who thinks of marriage not in the same way as you

at some level she may think you think less of her to some degree that you don't want to marry her

it is also possible at some deep level, being married gives her leverage over you she does not currently have and that she wishes to have

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>>34178929
Being this retarded.

Don't pass a good thing up. Man up and get a ring.

>>34178891

it's not innocuous though, its probably going to cost a shit load of money upfront and if they break up hes getting alimony'd

So, you hate those sweet tax breaks you would get for being married too?

>>34178504
She understands what a great deal marriage is for her even though its at your expense and as a woman she has a biological imperative to place her comfort and security first and foremost. Finding a woman who can be reasoned with on the topic of modern day marriage is like finding a needle in a haystack. She obviously isn't that one in a million girl so now you have to make a choice and live with it.

>>34178504
>I don't want to be with anyone else. She's fucking incredible
>This stupid fucking idiotic cultural idea potentially could be the downfall of my relationship

If one disagreement could ruin your relationship it probably isn't as good as you think it is. This guy >>34178629 is right on the reason why marriage is important to lots of people.

No, you have it all backwards.
Acknowledgement of a sacred union between a man and a woman have been around forever.
Fornication and cohabitation are the recent inventions.

You think you are so deep and countercultural for thinking you are above marriage, but you are just like everyone else these days.

All marriage is, is having a party with a nice cake, then agreeing not to fuck other people.
And it doesn't seem like the former bothers you as much as the latter.

You are essentially saying "I value our relationship, but not enough to make it a lifelong thing in case someone better comes along" by refusing to marry.

She will cheat on you, or you will cheat on her, worst case scenario. Or, hopefully, the relationship will break down and you can end things. Because that refusal to marry is a clear sign you don't respect the relationship enough.
No matter how much you get all poetic about the things you've been through, or about how you don't have to follow society, or whatever.

If I were dating a man for 8 years and he didn't want to marry me, I'd take that as a sign he isn't committed and wants to cheat on me and leave me. She will become paranoid if you don't give her a sign of commitment. That's all it is. It seems to me that being right is more important to you than her.

>>34178504
Did you ever make this case to her openly and directly? If so, what was her response? If not, why?

>>34178504
>like fucking retards in the jungle who stick their hands in a glove of bullet ants to prove that they're a "man"
Those who bitch out during the procedure don't get to mate with any of the females. They are essentially selecting for strong pain tolerance and willpower. Seems to be working, considering the reporters and visitors that tried that shit for a few seconds freaked the fuck out and had to be hospitalized.

>>34178504
The wedding is ancient. And you need it in order to tie her down to you.

If she never cheated on you, you are mussing out on a great chance. Because the next time you will marry a single mom

>>34178504
You sound like my math teachers boyfriend kek

>>34180503
Is this a common interpretation in your view? I'd personally see things more along the lines of: I value our relationship and don't need a silly contrivance to prove that.

Marriage isn't any guarantee of fidelity. We shouldn't pretend otherwise. It's at best a celebration of an ideal and at worst an excuse for a party. You can make of that what you will, but I don't see how it leads to any kind of valuable conclusion about the health of a relationship or someone's commitment either way.

>>34178504
Marriage has, is and will always be a business decision.
Recent times have blurred that, painting a portrait of fantasies on both sides.
Not gonna tell you what to do other than confront her and talk about it.

I'll lay down some options
A) Go to City Hall, or whatever the place is that the government recognizes and approves marriages and maybe have a little get-together afterwards.

B) Have a wedding reception as she wants, in which someone will have to pay the bill for the extravagant crap.

C) Delay the talk more until you come back to this situation, then rinse and repeat.

D) Drop the relationship.

If you got better options go for it. Either way, the choice is yours, OP.

>>34180948
Oh no it's the new age nu male who knows better than real men before him for the past 50.000 years.

Mr shekelsberg at uni said that marriage is stupid so it must be. Also we must dismantle the white supremacy

>>34180948
Marriage is a contract of ownership.
Right now you do not own her.

>>34181031
Okay? Interesting interpretation of what I said, though I'm not really sure how any of that follows from my question.

>>34180948

If marriage doesn't mean anything, then why not just go through with it, then?

Fork out a couple of thousand dollars for a small marriage on the beach, invite some close friends, have a party, make your next trip a honeymoon, and then things can go back to the way they always have?

That's all it is, so why are you being so averse to it?

It's a common view because its the only view that makes sense. The only part about marriage that could bother you is the "exclusivity" part. It's only logical

>>34181086
I already answered your question.
You are not being smart by declining the marriage. No matter if it's right or wrong she will leave you because of it.

Because in 99% of the time when men refuse to marry it means that they refuse to settle down.

You sound like a man child trying to be a rebel in your late 20's. Grow up. Marriage also has legal consequences so it's not a total bullshit

>>34178673
>Women want commitment and marriage is the ultimate and final symbol of that to them
They also tend to get fat, stop having sex with you, and generally stop trying to make things work when you get married.

>>34181148
>>34181170
To clarify, I'm not OP. I was just curious about some of the views expressed in this thread. I'm also not sure what the reason is for the hostility here.

I have zero objection to marriage, at most perhaps I might make a case against ostentatious ceremonies. I see a need for a legal marriage, which could be done in a court house and in private, but I don't see a need for a "traditional marriage ceremony" any more than I would see a need for a baptism. Am I wrong?

>females conditioned their whole lives to want marriage and taught from a young age that it's the penultimate symbol of true love

>society as a whole constantly reinforces this ideal on both men and women

marriage is like any other bizarre human custom. of course there are arguments against it...and maybe the whole institution of marriage is ultimately a silly thing......but you can't undo the life long social conditioning of a person with a few talking points. your gf's emotional draw to marriage is always going to outweigh your own anti-marriage viewport....and even if you stay together without getting married, she's going to live the rest of her life wishing you were.

lots of human customs make no sense. look at your image for example. why is a suit and tie considered formal attire? what about hanging a triangular piece of cloth from your neck is objectively formal? it's not. it's just dumb human custom and you can roll with it and exist harmonically in society, or sperg out because reasons and enjoy being lonely.

>>34181071
Modern marriage is about the woman owning the man (and his present and future financial assets).

>>34178504
Because all kinds of companies can make serious money off of it, so the idea of it is propagated around. Same for holidays like Christmas and Valentines.

>>34178801
This OP, you fucked up.

Originale

>I date you because I want to be with you because my relationship matters to ME, not to other people, I don't give a FUCK what other people think of my life.

that's what my gf says about the topic, thank fuck, although even more edgy where she said she doesnt give a fuck about what my family, religion, society or the law thinks about us either

>>34179449
Man up and put yourself at a 50% chance of financial ruin! That's what REAL men do!

>>34178504
So you are just too cheap to give your girl a proper wedding ceremony.

Got it.

>>34178504
Just do what my boyfriend tells me, Tell her you're not with the social norm and you're not looking to get married and if she don't like it then leave. Get her a commitment ring or something that signifies you want to stay true to her but you honestly need to tell her how you feel otherwise you're going to be pressured into doing something you don't want to do. Then you'll be unhappy,pressured,and have resentment. With resentment comes tension, with tension comes fighting.

>>34181254
That's only if you're a cuck. You either don't share all your assets (sign up a part of your belongings to another family member or hide it somewhere) or you marry a woman who works and earns money.

Even if she takes half she ended up paying for 30-40% of it so you only lose 10-20% which is worth risking

>>34180338
You're not taking into account that close to 50% of married couples divorce. The vast majority of divorces are initiated by women. This can be iniated even if no fault has been commited by the man. Courts are also heavily agaisnt men

>>34181420
Most of those 50% marrry with a cunt who fucked 12 guys and was not in an 8 year long relationship with them.

If she has been faithful for 8 years the chances if successful marriage are high.
He should either marry now or never

>>34181329

50% of marriages may end in divorce, but that doesnt mean you have a 50% chance of divorce yourself.

that statistic doesnt take into account the circumstances of the marriage and the psychology of the partners. many people get married for the wrong reasons, too soon, etc....but if you find a stable mature partner with similar values who makes you happy, the chances of you divorcing are much much slimmer.

it's like if you lived in a town where everyone except you plays russian roulette with their gun. it might be a statistic that 99% of gun owners are killed by their own weapon, but that doesnt mean you as a gun owner who doesnt play RR has a 99% chance of being killed by your weapon too. in reality you have an extremely low chance of accidentally killing yourself in that situation....but to an outsider the statistics could be misleading and contribute to a lot of conceptual bias.

>>34178504
For starters tell her it way past the point. If she stays with you 8 years without the paperwork it's a pointless. Hell depending on where you live she could still take you though the ringer at court without the marriage papers so it's a really moot point.

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>>34178504
It can be a sentimental thing for some. It's not more different than a person framing a fathers/grandfathers old war vest. Having that picture of loved ones on your work table. Celebrating a milestone in your life.
I feel your fear is coming more out of the insecurity this has brought to the table. After all marriage and unions have been a thing for a long time, however marriage for love ebb and flows in history. This tug of war that has no clear resolution. You can say "If you love me we don't need a marriage ceremony" but then she can say "If you love me you let me have this marriage ceremony" and both are truths which then deadlocks you into a game where there is no winner. You need to evaluate what come will be worse for you and then avoid that and accept the doom it brings.

>>34178504
she wants to a wife, you are denying her that.
let her go.

>>34181420
actually most of that 50% is second and third and so on remarries. The Number for first timers is closer to high 20% low 30%

>>34181511
As dumb as this sounds there seems to be something about the longer you are dating past the first year the more likely a marriage will fail. Basically if you've been dating for 5+ years and have lived together 2+ in that 5 you are standing something close to a 70% chance of divorce

>>34178504
only get married if kids are involved,
otherwise fuck that shit

>>34178504

Either way you're fucked OP.
A) Force yourself to marry her and endure all the bullshit that comes along with it. You'll have some tax benefits of course, but your opinion of her will erode as time goes on.
B) Painfully end the relationship and move on.

>>34182236
So what would be 8 then?

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>>34178504
You can choose to get upset at the cultural idea of marriage and lose your girlfriend or marry her and keep her.
Only choices. If you try to rationalize with her that this is a cultural thing that doesnt really matter and you love her yadda yadda then you lost, she's going to leave you soon. You don't rationalize a girl out of marriage (or anything really) it's all feels. my man.

>>34182264
I doubt we could find a good average for that. A lot of variables. That said if OP has any sense he should just offer a middle ground of wearing rings and having just a private ceremony of the two pledging oaths to the other.
If his girl doesn't like that idea, then her issues are fears she needs to talk out or discover.
If OP is uncomfortable with that then he is a hypocrite and this is something deeper rooted in fear than just paperwork and should reflect what the real issue is.

Marriage is stupid but I would endure it to save my relationship

>>34178504
The idea of marriage is fucking dumb, DON'T DO IT
Unfortunately she'll probably leave you for not wanting to get married (because marriage is apparently a sign of commitment)

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>>34182310
The bigger issue is this is that deadlock love brings in where it becomes a question of who loves who enough to do what they want. OP is putting himself in a position where she will have the moral high ground of sacrificing her wants for his and having proof her love is greater for him than his is for her.
I've seen this song and dance before and OP will likely drive himself out when his love can be singled out as he would do an action that he confessed he saw the act as worthless so she will then reflect and ask why he wouldn't in the name of love act on a worthless action.

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>>34178504
>All of these abstract concepts like interpersonal love, relationships, intimacy, parenthood, loyalty and fidelity have existed long before the concept of marriage ever existed.
I don't think you thought that comment out because marriage was around a long time before the idea of a loving couple was even a thing. Some claim this didn't happen till the romantic era hence the name.

>>34182386
This. It gives the person some great leverage if you are the one that was denied, because you have a solitary proof of your love is greater than theirs.

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>>34178504
>All of these abstract concepts like interpersonal love, relationships, intimacy, parenthood, loyalty and fidelity have existed long before the concept of marriage ever existed.
For most of human history, almost none of what you listed existed. Love was seen more as job commitment or loyalty. In fact you were seen as a sicko or a selfish cunt if you did things in the name of love. Marriage was considered too serious a matter to be based on such fragile emotions. Those you speak of would call you a fool for committing to ideas of love and that you ruin your life for it. It wasn't till the 17th and 18th centuries, when Enlightenment thinkers pioneered the idea that life was about the pursuit of happiness. They advocated marrying for love rather than wealth or status. So you earn this pic OP.

>betting someone half your shit that they'll love you forever

>>34182608
Well I had nothing and her dad stupidly force a prenup (he was trying to break us up) so it's wagering proposition even money no matter how that bet goes.

>>34182693
I don't really see your problem then. What's going to change in your life apart from partaking in a one time ritual?

>>34182790
No OP anon just sharing my situation.

>>34182832
Oh.
OP, if she doesn't agree to a prenup she doesn't love you and just wants a meal ticket.
Prenup won't help you for shit if she decides to leave you, but it's a good gauge of her intentions.

>>34182862
prenup likely won't help. 8 years together holds the common marriage law even if they actaully get married. You are basically fuck if you date a girl more then 4 years.

>>34182924
Jesus fuck, how did men let this happen?
Soon just saying good morning to your neighbor will allow her to sue you for child support. And win.

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>>34182973
In fairness these laws are ancient, like ancient Greek and Roman civilization, we even have stuff on the books about it in 1215 where they tried to fight against it and lost.
Basically the idea was forged as a means to keep track of clans and units of people, the idea of living or staying with someone for 4+ years and not wedding them or seeing it as a union was seen as absurd. You have to remember that these ideas of dating and fucking are very new and very abnormal to the usually history of civilization.