what EXACTLY is wrong with Islam? hardmode: don't use the

Item 1: The state of every single muslim nation today

>>91883735
>>91883627
S C A N D I

>>91883735
but are they shitholes because of Islam or because they're filled with mudskins?

I think Islam proper
as practiced in Iran
may have Traditional elements that we have lost in the West

I'm not shilling for Islam, I'm just wondering out loud

What exactly is right with islam?

Hardmode: dont use the fact that its a religion of peace

>>91883627
Jesus:
>Preached the gospel
>Turned the other cheek
>Healed the sick
>Walked on water
>Said the wealthy rarely make it to heaven
>Willingly suffered and died for the sins of humanity

Muhammed:
>Led armies into battle
>Beheaded his enemies
>Took thousands of slaves
>Had multiple wives, including a 6 year old child
>Preached death to infidels

Even if everything in the Bible and the Qur'an is made up, this is still the way the two men are taught and portrayed and believed by millions.
Check out this video if you have time:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_Qpy0mXg8Y

>>91883627
>what EXACTLY is wrong with Islam?

The rape
The murders
The honor killings
The intolerance for other cultures
The intolerance for other religions
The dogma endorsed pedophillia
Sex with donkeys
Thinks the world is flat
Easily manipulated by Israel into being a little proxy army

I could keep going, you know.

>>91884137
but pedophilia aside
isn't that what we want on /pol/?
behead the degenerates and foreigners?
crush our enemies in the name of God?

>warlord creates fake religion in middle of desert in 600's
>by the 700's they have conquered from spain to afghanistan
>everybody who isn't a believer is a "infidel"

cancer

>>91884258
Not as long as pedophilia is involved. So setting it aside would mean reformation.

>>91883627

It's a religion that elevates submission to authority as its highest virtue.

> the name even means "submission"

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Here is a world map showing the % of the population that is inbred
Notice anything?

In heavily Muslim areas like Pakistan, as many as 70% of marriages are between first cousins. Muslims are some of the most inbred people in the world. This costs them on average as much as 20 IQ points, and dropping over time. The entire Islamic gene pool is in a slow tailspin death spiral

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>>91883627
Why bother having threads like this if OP's never actually respond to the facts refuting them? Read the book. Look at the fucking people throughout their entire history. It's blatantly obvious. Asking what's wrong with Islam is like asking what's wrong setting yourself on fire. You can't mentally gymnastic your way out of it.

Arabs.

>>91883627

>pedophilia
>burden of proof is on the defendant
>no freedom of speech or thought
>politics and religion aren't separated
>inbreeding
>worshiping a non-existent being

>>91883627

>Oppressive to gays and women
>doctrine of punishing non believers
>fooling non believers
>killing in the name of

Everything the left thinks Christianity is

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>>91883627
Absolutely nothing.

>>91884594
I have responded to several posts already, you nigger.
You just assumed I didn't and posted like the retarded fuck you are.
Your mother is a whore, and you're a waste of space.
Kill yourself, you cancerous faggot.

>>91883627
Their religion is basically the bible but mixed up and backwards. It can be okay, any educated Aryan know s that islam has produced great things. Hitler admired Islam. Member?

>>91883979
they are shitholes cus they were bombed by USA

>>91883627
Being civil - refusing to change with the flow of time.
Every major religion, Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, Budhism has a certain plasticity ingrained which allowed it to suit to the faithful's aspirations, both economic and social.
Islam, on the other hand, refused to change, conversely trying to impose rigorously what had been followed when it was first conceived.
Islam has the potential to unite a billion minds for constructive purposes; sadly though the reality in which Islam's narrative is used says otherwise.

>>91885137
well, Persians/Iranians are considered /pol/-approved right?
they accepted their own version of Islam
they aren't savages

Bosnia and other European peoples took Islam
adopted it to their liking, and then kept being civilized

my point is: Christianity is (sadly) dying
maybe Islam is a blessing in disguise

I'm not defending immigrants
all non-whites should be expelled
but Islam itself may be our gateway to Tradition

>>91883627
It got cucked by the jews.

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>>91885030
2 posts, not including mine, is not "several" you stupid ape. And you still haven't properly responded to mine. The question you should actually be asking is "What exactly is NOT wrong with Islam?" Why do I have to spell this out for you? Are you really such a knuckle-dragging spade?

>>91885367
They were shitholes long before my country, and your pathetic excuse for country, ever existed.

It's a brutal universalizing ideology that seeks to destroy any culture it comes into contact with, much like Anglo-American neoliberalism.It's the West of the East.

>>91885367
This actually isn't true

>>91884321
Don't forget that even believers are infidels because they believe differently than you!

Muslim here and these are what's wrong with Islam

>nobody reads the Quran
Everyone just recites the Quran in Arabic. Majority of Muslims are afraid to read the translations themselves out of fear they might misintepret it. They just blindly follow whatever their imam tells them to do.

>Hadiths

A whole lot of what's fucked up and backwards about Islam in general is atttributed to hadith, which in itself is the most retarded system in the world even by Islam's own standard but is somehow universally accepted.

>hard-on for Dajjal and end of days

Self-explanatory. Every Muslim is indoctrinated that we are living in the end of days. It's not close, it's not coming, it's already here and drastic
measures have to be taken. This ties with the points above.

>>91883627
The whole Sunni and Shi'a debacle is fucking stupid. I thought all muslims are brothers why the fuck are they killing eachother. Catholic and Orthodox states had conflicts in the Middle Ages while Sunni's and Shi'a's are still hostile.

>>91883627
Why can't I use the fact it has an arab origin? The fact that a culture is mine makes it immediately have a few extra points relative to others.

Anyway, Islam is degenerate af and wants to expand aggressively.

I like watching some sheiks lectures just to learn about the religion. I also love Memri t.v., very entertaining to see people beat each other with shoes. I wish American t.v. was like that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZKS-oY7ggU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLjISHuLWsU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xkb2K2ElBX8

Islam is a bunch of different branches of beliefs based off different schools of law created in the 3rd century after Muhammad. These different Schools of Law were incorporated into different regional traditions. Some adapted as time when on such as in Turkey (Malik I believe), allowing more financial freedom and freedom for woman. Some are still very traditional.

The problem, they used to just fuck each other up and live under their own dominated sect of Islam in territories. The West got involved, we lied to the King of the Arabs in WWI, we gave them the Jews then we fuck with their government and shoot em up. They hate the West and some groups are more willing to take action based on their belief. You try to identify the group (WAHHABISTS and SALAFIS) and their either "Not Islam" or you get some moderate form of Islam and you say "No this is Islam!". So really jack shit gets done and we love and accept all Mudslimes. They lie, deceive, and have secret beliefs within their sects. So basic Westerners just eat up the shit and still feel like we should give a shit if they mutilate vaginas while we blow em up and the circle of violence continues.

>>91886438
I just wanted critiques of Islam that were not "ragheads"
because we can dismiss Christianity for being Jewish in origin too by that logic

>>91883627
>what EXACTLY is wrong with Islam?
it exists

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>>91885937
Answer him OP.

>>91886407

Because fucking hadiths. Hadith is the source of schism in the Islamic world and this can be avoided if all the Muslims actually read their own holy book.

>>91883979
>a woman's word is worth half a man's word
>a woman cannot go out alone without being accompanied by a man
>homosexuality is punishable by death
>adultry is punishable by death
>atheism is punishable by death
>rape is halal
>having sex with children, even babies, as well as animals, is halal
>other religions have to pay a tax

I could keep going on, but you get the idea

>>91883627

It has an expansionist and divisive set of ideals which prevent any compromise from Islam and Sharia law.

If a Polish immigrant chooses to stay in the UK in one generation they will be British. Islam and people who follow it live in secluded ghettos, have their own schools (both islamic schools and state schools which have been completely over run to such an extent that parents will not send their kids there in fear of their safety and development). This seclusion gives them the opportunity to continue practicing the ideals from the middle east, uninterrupted by the state. The state tries to curtail the worst customs but constantly fail because to leave these muslim ghettos alienates the victims and they would have too in order to be protected.

>>91886281
>nobody reads the most important shit of your religion

No wonder they are so fucked up

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Guess OP does believe in what I wrote, given that he hasn't countered my argument yet.

>>91883627

the religion never undertook a reformation in any shape or form

>>91883627

Taqiyya.

Fundamentally means, if I am not initiated, I should expect no honesty.

It's the most major flaw of the religion, and the main reason I cannot respect it.

>>91886768
I read about the hadiths and it really does sound fucking stupid t b h. Aren't the differences between Sunni and Shi'a beliefs minimal?

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>>91883735
Spoken like a true Swede

>>91884258
Pedophilia, rape, intolerance of non-muslims, with a desire to take over the world with their tyrannical cult, and no free speech are some of the biggest reasons I reject the religion.

I dont care for a religion that automatically is my enemy because I dont care for islam.

it's retarded

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>>91884321
>fake religion

>>91886531
We're not talking about the same thing. Nothing in Norwegian society has been Islamic for the past 1000 years (or at least until recently). Islam has nothing to do with you or your culture. You're the son of a Christian nation. It's a matter of loving your own country/culture.

>>91887445
I'm using the 1000 year figure arbitrarily*

>>91883627
The problem lies in the nature of their "addition" to christianity. While christians believe that they should emulate gods example of the perfect man, namely his son/alter ego, muslims believe that they have to obey the orders of gods messenger. The orders are highly situational and it is impossible to make any consistent moral structure out of them. In the end it boils down to who can smoke and eat pork the least, which is not exactly morality in western sense. There is no consistency, Islam dictates that you need to treat people different according to religion for example. Hence, if you want to artificially create a confilct, Islam provides you with a template. In conclusion, Islam is a perversion of chrisitianity and as a result cannot produce any positive outcomes.

>>91887178

The differences of beliefs are minimal, yes, but most Sunni consider Shi'as as heretics and Shi'as are just vengeful/salty over Sunni's oppression. It's mostly politics but everything stems from hadiths. Sunni says hadiths A B C are true while Shi'a say hadiths D E F are true but it's all really retarded.

>>91886064
What you mean.

The Arabic Empire and Persia are consider some of the best empire of the world.

>>91883627
Everything.

>>91887688
And where do the Ahmadiyas and Sufis come into the picture? Ahmadiyas are a persecuted lot aren't they?

>>91883979
When was the Middle east last the bastion of science and discovery?

Prior to Islam and in a decline under a period of some 100 years under Islamic rule until finally subcoming
to the inherently backward thinking ways of Islam.

The Islamic world is complete sheit, they've given nothing to this world for a thousand years.

Ship all muslims to Mecca and glass it.

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>>91883627
No beer

No bacon

No bikinis

>>91887848

Everything not Sunni is persecuted by Sunni. Every other sect wants Sunni to fuck off but generally Sunni just do crazy shit. Again, every sect comes from hadiths.

>What is hadith?

While Quran is considered as the word of God by Muslims, hadith are anecdotal stories and sayings of Muhammad. Here's where it gets stupid.

The average hadith is as following:

"I saw a guy who heard from his brother who once heard his imam said about his friend who's mother works for this guy who once saw Muhammad said so and so."

You can literally see what's wrong with this. Now, most of the modern hadiths are compiled by this guy called Bukhari and he was born 200 years after Muhammad's death. 200 years. He compiled all these hadiths and they're taken as if they're the literal truth.

Now since the system itself is flawed, a whole lot of people have used it for their own gain. They invent their own hadiths, said that Muhammad said it, to further their agendas.

One glaring example I can give you is about dogs. All of the anti-dogs hadiths came from Abu Hurairah, whose name literally means "Father of Kittens". The general message is dogs are dirty, but if any Muslim actually reads the Quran they can see how if you own a hunting dog and the dog catches (and kills) a prey, that prey is halal for you to eat. Something the Quran says is halal, hadiths say it's dirty.

But nobody reads the Quran.

With all these hadiths, each sect picks and choose which they like based on their own political liking. Sunni like this, Sufi likes that, Sunni doesn't like Sufi's hadith so they call for Sufi's death. Based on a hadith that they conveniently like.

>>91887779
And that huge gap between then and the formation of the USA?

>>91886877
>a woman's word is worth half a man's word
This one really isn't right. A woman's word is worth nothing

It treats women as objects and men as their security guards. If anything happens to her you can be held responsible for it.

I don't want to have to jihad someone because they looked my wife in the hijab eye slit.

Also totalitarianism is bad.

>>91883627
It's racist.

>>91888693
Aren't Sufis the most peaceful-ish kind? It is a known fact that Sunni/Wahhabis are cancer. How peaceful/tolerant are the Ahmadiyas. Shia aren't that peaceful, given how Hamas and Iran behaves.

>>91888763
is it really tho?
women SHOULD be subservient
men SHOULD look after their sisters and family members

we allow our women to be sluts and look at what we got

It's literally a slaver cult

>>91883627
Nothing is wrong with the arab claiming the religion of his ancestors, what's wrong is KANGS trying to create their own islam.

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>>91883627
since this is a slide thread im not going to post again

Just to air out my feelings, pic related is everything fucking wrong with islam as far as im concerned. I don't need an excuse to hate every last one you. You gave me a reason. If I had my way the entire middle east stretching from the far west end of the sahara all the way through iran bottoming at saudi arabia and all the way up through turkey would be a shining glimmering sheet of hot white glass.

But I guess the world isnt perfect is it.

>>91889220

Sufis are the... hippy new age kind of Muslim. I mean, they're practically harmless but they do and say a lot of weird shit. Ahmadiyyas are literally Mormons. They get bullied a lot because of their small numbers but they're also mostly harmless because of it. Ideology-wise, in bigger numbers they could go the Shia route.

As for Shia, wherever there's a huge number of Shia like Syria and Iran, there's gonna be Sunnis fucking their shit up. Sometimes the leader of the area is Sunni and they persecute Shias, then a Shia would rise into power and persecute Sunni, and this goes on and on and on. They're not too big on getting over grudges.

>>91883627
Just read the history of it. Mohammad was a fucking warlord, the islam is supposed to be the religion of war.

>>91886100

You're not really Canadian, aren't you?

>>91890059
Where does the Turkish,Indian and Indonesian interpretation stand in all this royal mess? Proclivity towards the Sunni, or their brand of more secular interpretation.
Turkey has largely been secular until recently.
Barring Kashmir, mainland India has hardly any islamic terrorism.
Indonesia has largely been peaceful until now.

>>91884126
Zakat is a pretty good practice. As with any religion, Islam is a brotherhood of people with common values. And I think there is some value in the mantra of "submission."

But what do I not like about Islam? It is too political and intolerant of other religions, and a good portion of Muslims are convinced they cannot live in peace with non-believers, and that nonbelievers themselves should not live;

There is the problem of completely backwards attitudes and regression for women, intolerance and killings of gays

There is the problem of killing nonbelievers or essentially opressing/forcibly converting them if they live in Muslim lands

There is the cancer of terrorism which has gripped politicized Islam for several decades, partially caused by the West

There is the fundamentally shitty practices of taqqiya (lies to nonbelivers in defense of your religion) and honour killings of women who reject marriage proposals

There is the problem that most Islamic countries emerged from colonization a couple of decades ago and have not industrialized or modernized so a good percentage of their populations are poor, along with the ongoing instability in those areas

>>91890501

All Sunni, but since since these regions are relatively much more peaceful compared to the Middle East, they have the opportunity to undergo a more secular route and also with their interpretation. People nowadays in these regions have taken a more liberal intepretation of Islam and thus more relaxed.

You'll still get sent to re-educational camps if you say hadiths are bullshit here, though. But eh, it's a slow progress.

Jericho.

>>91886877
Only the rape stuff is bad

>>91884137
So basically

Jesus = cuck

Muhammad = Based

>>91891125
Riddle me this. In spite of being a theocratic state, how did malaysia manage to come up in the GDP ladder? And how is that when I look up your country, you harbour a hindu tempel, a popular one at that? Is religion disregarded in Malaysia?

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full list here:

>>91883627
It has a personality cult that worships a guy that had a child bride.

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>>91883627

It's a religion created for war and impossible to interpret for anything else but that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y__ggXzII4I

If you want to use the teachings of Islam to live your every day life, you have to cherry-pick the shit out of it until you are "moderate". Only then can you be acceptable to live around in the west, to a degree.

>>91883627
1) Kill anyone who insults Islam or Mohammad. (Koran.33;57-61).

2) Kill all Muslims who leave Islam. (Koran.2;217/4;89/Bukhari.9;84-57).

3) Koran can't be doubted. (Koran.2;1).

4) Islam is the only acceptable religion. (Koran.3;85).

5) Muslims must fight (jihad) infidels, even if they don't want to. (Koran 3.151/8,12/2;216).

6) We the non-Muslims are pigs and apes. (Koran. 2;62-65/Koran.5;59-60/Koran.7;166).

7) Muslims cannot be friends with Infidels. (Koran.5;51).

8) We the Infidels are sworn enemies of Muslims and Islam. (Koran.4;101).

9) Infidels can be raped as sex slaves. (Koran.4;3 & 24/5;89/23;5/33;50/58;3/70;30).

10) Infidels the vilest of creatures deserving no mercy. (Koran.98;6).

11) Muslims must terrorize us (Infidels). (Koran.8;12 &59-60/ Bukhari.4;52;220).

12) Muslims must strike terror into non-Muslims hearts. (Koran.8;60).

13) Muslims are allowed to crucify and amputate us (Infidels). Koran.8;12/47;4).

14) Muslims are allowed to behead us (Infidels) (Koran.47;4).

15) Muslims are guaranteed heaven if they kill us (non-Muslims). (Koran.9;111).

16) Marrying and divorcing pre-pubescent children is OK. (Koran.65;4).

17) Wife beating is OK. (Koran.4;34).

18) Raping wives is OK. (Koran.2;223).

19) Proving rape requires 4 (four) male Muslim witnesses. (Koran.24;13).

20) Muslims must lie to us (Infidels) to strengthen and spread Islam. (Koran.3;28?16;106

>>91891514

We got oil and rubber.

As for hindu temples and churches, those are fine because we're a more secular multiracial country compared to the other predominantly Muslim countries. Religion is still integral to Malaysia, to the point that the first tenet of our country is belief in God.

Countries like us are not at war, so a whole lot of us have access to education and what not. With education, particularly English, we can open the Quran and read its translation. Multiple translations of it, in fact.

So let's say there's the popular hadith that calls for the death of apostates. This sounds barbaric, and wrong, what does the Quran say?

"There is no compulsion in religion" - 2:256
"And if thy Lord willed, all who are in the earth would have believed together. Wouldst thou compel men until they are believers?" - 10:99

Muslims here would then be well shit should we still """kill"""" people who leave Islam? It goes against the Quran, so they realize that this one hadith is bullshit and thus abandon it.

However as with any country there are still the poor and the stupid niggers so these sort of people would be the instigators of violence in the more moderate regions.

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>>91883627
It's a religion which, as we all know, is a lie and lies are bad.
If you can't understand this simple fact then you're probably a bad person too, therefore your opinion on the matter is invalid.

You can only win this argument if you agree with me.

>>91892410
If economic prowess is an indicator for learning the proper interpretation, why is that the Saudis, who per capita GDP, which is reasonably high, still insist on the spread of the hardline interpretation? Wouldn't the islamic community benefit from a much liberal interpretation? Would attract less scorn.

>>91883627
They believe their religion's laws supercede the laws of the land they live in. They repeatedly break laws that their religion says is justified and not a sin to commit.

>>91883627
They believe in imaginary friends with no empiracle evidence to back it's existence.

They then use it to make laws that run their society

Tldr; they are fucking retarded and we would be better off with their genes deleted from the gene pool.

muslims are against homosexuality, gay marriage and want to punish adultery

>>91884564
This. While islam may exhibit desirable traits (to pol) such as gender roles, authoritarianism, execution of enemies etc. It is inherently self-destructive i.e. the worst societal trait because it is unable to develop and improve. You can have an authoritarian society with traditional ideals without exuding this submissiveness amongst the populace. I believe this is the main reason why muslim countries are so stagnant and backwards, it can't be a matter of race because arabs are caucasoidal.

Tldr: it's just shit

>>91886064
This.

>>91883627

>beheading
>goatfucking
>literal doctrine to lie in religion's name
>counter-assimilators

Quite a bit more.

>>91892847

Too rich however and it goes to shit. Check out Brunei.

This is because whatever they're doing, they'll believe it's the right thing to do because Allah had bless them with oil. Their natural resources that had led them to their current economic status is regarded as a reward from God. So all the clerics tend to argue "If you don't follow what we had always been doing, Allah will take away all our oil so we better stay true to tradition! Including stoning!"

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>>91887779

Everything is wrong with Islam.

>>91893935
Persia was actually civilized(ish) empire, before sandnig MUDslime subhumans ruined it...

>>91893863
Religion kept the paradox of plenty at bay I guess.
My take is Islam can coexist, only in its secular form. Schäuble, our FinMin proposed a German Islam, a secular and more tolerant kind I guess. I am certain that it will not be well received by the Turkish sect, nor the Saudis who are trying to actively push their interpretation. Only time shall tell where we are heading to.
Nice talking to you Malayanon. Until next time.

>>91883627
The sun doesn't settle in a muddy well at night.

>>91885367
We were never bombed by the USA yet this is still a shithole

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>>91883627
>believing in a god

>>91883627
The Mongols are what was wrong with Islam. Arab states were fairly enlightened until that point and never recovered.

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>>91884137
>Jesus
>Turned the other cheek

>>91894680
because it is filled with drunks and whores.

>>91894871
>the guy that had himself willingly nailed to a cross is a fighter
>the religion whose early followers willingly chose death is a fighting religion

*tips bucket helmet*

>>91894575
No, Quran cannot be altered
it is the copy of the heavenly one (as they believe)
Chaining Islam would require to change Quran itself
Islam cannot change or reform
P.S. and my condolence if you have a retard like that, for a minister...

>>91895158

Quran can't be altered, but the interpretation can.

Changing Islam is possible because of the false belief of holding hadith at the same level as Quran.

Islam can be changed and reformed if hadiths are scrutinized and Qurans are read more often.

>>91894575
Islam cannot coexist with anything.

The best approach is to strengthen the Assyrians, Armenians, Maronites of Lebanon, and make Iran Zoroastrian or Christianized. Then have them Deus Vult and cull all Muslims, culminating in the sacking of Mecca.

>>91886281
>hard-on for Dajjal and end of days
Christians have this too, just look at Evangelist Christians also millennialism

>>91886407
It's because most Persians want revenge for being Islamized. We're just pretending to be Muslim so we can finally do scaphism on all the Gulf niggers.

Oh the glorious sight of seeing Mecca being burned.

>>91895881
>We're just pretending to be Muslim so we can finally do scaphism on all the Gulf niggers.
>We're just pretending to be Muslim
>pretending
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/08/sports/american-chess-player-boycotts-championship-that-would-require-her-to-wear-a-hijab.html?_r=0

>>91883627
its extremely bipolar

>>91895551
Second that notion.
Alternatively, imparting our kind of education into the heads of the young. Agreed what I type out now is for all practical purpose, as impossible as 'Deus Vulting', but with the disappearance of religious education, disappears with it, the need to follow one. Instead of blowing the Mecca to smithereens, let's make it irrelevant.

>>91883627
Read Stephen Coughlin's book Catastrophic Failure orstop presuming to try to discuss it. The shortest I can put it is that mainstream Islam innately structures itself to reeogize and eliminate innovation (the word "innovation" in Islamic theology is a synonym for "blasphemy").

>>91896090
So? Hijab has Indo-European origin. Listen to Varg Vikernes talk about it.

Its burka that's Islamic. Scandinavian women were always wearing scarves on their heads after marriage.

The issue is with bowing to Mecca when we pray, and Muhammad was a piece of shit.

We still worship this guy:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piruz_Nahavandi

He killed caliphs.

It's too political

>>91883627

ifunny.com kys

>>91885719
du gingst grade voll krüppel, kamerad. du solltest niemals voll-krüppel gehen.

>>91896238

This is true.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bid%E2%80%98ah

Ironically there's a new fatwa every week but apparently that's not Bid'ah for some reason.