Why do people try to pretend they can live a moral life without

>>139891231
so they can have their cake and eat it too

>i'm moral enough to sin and NOT lose my immortal soul!

>>139891231
Man created religion, the values you think come from religion are already inside us, and are used to sell a myriad of religions around the world

Youre a fucking idiot for even trying to live a moral life in the first place. Kys while me and Tyrone make sweet love to your wife's asspussy in the most moral way possible.

they're trying to pretend to be moral
atheists have no reason to be moral if there is no higher authority to punish them for doing so

>>139891527
>man created religion
Do you have even a single fact to back that up?

You can't be moral without religious. Human experience and interpretation is changeable, one atheists morals are not the same as another's. There's a reason communism killed so many people.

Why do people pretend that you need morality to stop people killing each other. I don't believe in morality and see no reason to harm anyone.

>>139891231

I do it, not for fear of punishment.

That makes your motives impure, anyway.

>>139891231
>be me
>virgin
>never committed a crime
>never drank
>never did drugs
>never watched porn
>never swore
>employed
>polite
>not religious
its called having decent parents. its rare, but I dont need make belief to guide me on a proper path

>>139891850
There's a lot of different religions dude. 99% of them must be made up.

>implying that someone can't not be a cunt without god
>implying everyone needs to fear a fairytale to act like a civilized person

>>139892579
>dude i can totally be moral without god
>see, i even made up my own morals
Congrats, you just outed yourself as a moron. Get the fuck off my board you godless communist.

Why do people try to pretend they can live a religious life without being immoral? It's impossible.

>>139891543
*awkward silence*

Well that escalated quickly!

Only Christians know morality. Atheists just obey the states laws because they are rich and pampered

do people REALLY unironically think that morality is derived from religion?

>>139893615
It's pretty hard to derive objective morality from anything non-supernatural.

>>139891231
They're baiting us to kill them. That's literally all it is. Then they can say, "see, I told you religious people were evil."

>>139893615
Where does morality come from if not religion?

>>139893615
How could you not?

>>139891231
Atheism is the ultimate moral pill!

Think about it... there's no afterlife, no heaven or hell or anything! Live in the fucking moment cos there's fuck all when we croke it.

Treat life as delicately as it is. Live it to the full and treat everyone as you would wanna be treated. Because we all have one life to live and that's it- GONE

This is not a blackpill... more like a whitepill.... atheism doesn't have to be so dark and scary and negative.... it's beautiful and we should appreciate how precious life is.

>>139891231
But what if my morals mirror your religion?

Honestly, I'm probably more virtuous than you are since I'm moral because I want to be, not because I'm afraid of hellfire or whatever.

>>139891527
Christianity started with the death of Christ, and he's teachings are the foundation of every society that has brought to where we are now. There are no morals without religion. All the atheists are benefiting from a Christian society that they can laugh at and take advantage of their goodwill.

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>>139891231

>>139894207
That'd be cute if it wasn't a fucking a lie.

All life leaves tracks. And your's will be used to judge you. God or not.

>>139891649
IF you're smart enough, you can be moral without fear of punishment

>>139891527
So fucking what? Man created lots of things. Are you gonna fuck off from this website because man created it.

I fucking hope so.

>>139893793
>>139893886
>>139894058
From the God, not the religion subhuman retards.

>>139892152
Shut up Fin.

>>139893615
That's because there's a set of rules, or 'morals', that can be referenced. Otherwise it's just one (((atheist))) doing as it wishes and justifying it because it "wasn't against my morals". Then if someone calls them out they're just arguing their morals against someone elses which is basically just arguing your opinion against someone elses without being able to back up either point with anything that isn't emotions.
Think of any sport or game and think of the rules of it. Now imagine that same sport or game with no rules. Now how much of that sport or game do you imagine would be spent actually playing and how much do you think would be spent on arguing whether something was against the rules are not? At what pace would such a sport or game advance?
Now, are you capable of imagining it isn't a sport or game, but is instead real life and all of the rules have been thrown out of the window?
Where the fuck do you think the morality of law and order were derived from?
There's a reason people were 'oppressed' and people couldn't just 'do as they like'. It turns out when that's the case everything starts turning to complete shit. Just like an apehoop game where one team puts out 12 players and decides their baskets are worth 15 points each because fuck rules.
You're either a nigger or you need to head back to plebbit, because you're definitely a retard.

>>139891850
>thousands of religions exist that just so happen to conveniently bundle morals and principals to live by that strongly benefit the nation or subsection of a nation that practice the religion

Pure coincidence, right?

>>139891543
ID checks out alright.

>>139892228
Do you know how stupid that sounds?

>>139895006
Does not religion come from God? If there is indeed a single omnipotent creator, does not absolutely everything come from it?

>>139893793
you can't figure out why murder is bad without a deity saying so?

>>139895153
GOD MAKES MORALS. RELIGION DOES NOT.

Religion is completely arbitrary and wholly dependent on the humans.

>>139891231
I'm not religious. I live by the golden rule and try to help people when I can. Immoral I am not.

>>139894660
Your comment is so bacowards, its laughable.

>"God or not"
So, who'll judge me if no God?

Also, I live me life as morally right as possible- out of choice! Because I want to be a better man. Because I want to have a lasting impact on people. Because it produces feel good chemicals in your brain after a good deed. I am naturally a decent person.

>>139895370
Yes, everything is from the God. However, that does not mean that mortality is derived from religion. If your logic is true, then anything can be derived from anything else.

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>>139893847

>>139895630
>mortality

mortality
noun
1.
the state of being subject to death.
"the work is increasingly haunted by thoughts of mortality"
synonyms: impermanence, temporality, transience, ephemerality, impermanency, perishability;
2.
death, especially on a large scale.
"the causes of mortality among infants and young children"
synonyms: death, loss of life, dying
"the causes of mortality among infants and young children"

I guess you mean morals...

>>139896024
Thanks for spelling correction. My point still stands.

>>139891231

Untrue. You could be a Kantian who wants everyone to live by the maxim, "Act always as if God was real" or a utilitarian who thinks utility is "what god would want if he was real." These are functionally the same as religious morals. There's a lot better reasons you're wrong but it's not worth the trouble. Also under Christian morals people have no incentive not to do bad things unless it would send you to hell.

Please refute me religion cucks.

>>139896360
>Also under Christian morals people have no incentive not to do bad things unless it would send you to hell.
Absolutely untrue; doing something out of love of neighbor or the glory of God is entirely different than acting out of fear, which also has its usefulness.

>>139896750
Not an argument.

>>139895006
Please, tell us exactly how morality comes from God.

>>139895630
>Yes, everything is from the God.

You really should have stopped there. Its the absolute height of arrogance for you to assume all that an omniscient mind knows.

All the data you require is in the outcomes.

>touching ur peepee makes jeebus cry :((((((
take a hike christ cucks

>>139896851
>Not an argument.
Correct, because it's useless to argue with an ignorant person; however, it remains true that doing something out of love or to honor is different than doing something out of fear.

>>139891231
It's impossible to be moral either. We are all sinful and fallen. Just some of the shits are stinkier and shitty than others.

Christ help us because all of us deserve damnation.

>>139896750
but Christians also do morals act out of fear of punishment and expectation of rewards.

>>139891850
All ethics are derived from the physical laws of the universe. They're universal. Religion isn't needed to recognize that. An atheist who thinks murder is okay is still wrong even without religion.

>>139891649
Only the weakminded are guided by fear of punishment. If the only reason you are not a cunt is because you fear punishment then you are also just pretending.
I don't try to be moral because I fear punishment, but because I want to be the best I can be and a good role model for my family and children.

>>139896886
Moral truth is a reflection of God's nature.

>>139897915
murder is defined as immoral killing though. So murder is immoral by definition.

>>139891231
>not do evil shit because you're scared of big invisible sky daddy Vs. Not doing evil shit because it's evil
CHRISTCuCKs are the women of / pol/

>>139895198
If a criminal refrains from committing criminal acts because police are watching him and is afraid of getting arrested then he is just pretending not be a criminal.
Having morality is not commiting crimes even if there are no repercussions for doing so.

>>139897094

Yeah but it doesn't make the point any less true. How are Christian morals going to stop someone from acting badly if they think the reward they'll get is better than the "glory of god?" You haven't provided any benefit of Christian morality that makes it better than secular morality

>>139897038
Is your argument really "omniscient mind does not know everything"?

Wow. Religious cucks truly are delusional.

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>>139891231
>implying owen isn't religious
Okay

>>139898367
>CHRISTCuCKs are the women of / pol/
pretty much
>Choose to believe in the big nice story that my friends and family believe
>If someone says what I believe is wrong and I should believe something that is more painful to accept even though it has much better rationale supporting it, I should just ignore it and call them dumb/racist/atheists etc

>>139891231
O.P., it's because they're of their father, the wicked one.

>>139898812
>under Christian morals people have no incentive not to do bad things unless it would send you to hell.
Sigh; let's go back to your original statement:
>under Christian morals people have no incentive not to do bad things unless it would send you to hell.
The incentive of pleasing God or serving neighbor is the motive for the good act. Good acts are opposite of evil acts; therefore, doing good acts do indeed keep one from refraining from doing evil.

>>139891231
People who are religious pretend to be moral because they're scared a Jewish wizard will punish them. After they're dead.
Non religious people are moral because it's the right thing to do.
If you're only moral out of fear of retribution, then you're not at all moral at all.
B T F O
T
F
O

>>139898450
If a criminal refrains from committing criminal acts, then he is not a criminal; doesn't matter what the motive is.

>>139891231
Why do religious people deny the existence of secular zealots? Progressives arn't amoral, they have their own set of morals and demand everyone else adhere to them.

>>139899785
In your opinion, Anon. But the reality of it is that you don't even know what you're talking about, and are a silly person.

>>139899785
>Non religious people are moral because it's the right thing to do.
So believing something is the right thing to do makes it the right thing to do? That explains why communists killed so many people in the name of abolishing private property.

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Morals from what? The King James Bible? In terms of the new testament, it's the English translation of the 1600s version of a Greek translation from 1300 years prior which was itself a translation of hebrew letters written between that time and 200-250 years prior, or in other words beginning 20+ years after the death of Jesus. It's well documented that the differences between these texts indicates stories and ideas being altered to fit times and governments. It's the world's most obvious tool for controlling you and keeping you in line as a good goy. People are supposed to believe the even older translations and stories of things such as the 10 commandments are any more official. Oh, don't use your own moral code, that's arbitrary and bullshit. We all have to adhere to this moral code laid out by someone claiming to be writing the words of the invisible man in the sky thousands of years ago, which is intermixed with stories about living inside a fish, the planet flooding in its entirety for a month and all existing land based life being saved by one man in one geographic location with one boat, various talking animals, god sending a bear attack to maul children for making fun of a bald man, etc.

Why do people try to pretend they can live a moral life via religion? It's impossible. It's as arbitrary as anyone's personal code could be, and there are massive gaps and contradictions as well.

>>139898895
Learn to read, fuckface. Is this the commie core education our treasonous nigger President gave you?

>>139899044
S

>>139900709
Strong argument, I'll just hang my head in shame and never speak again. Praise Jesus.
Mongo

>>139900884
>Why do people try to pretend they can live a moral life via religion? It's impossible. It's as arbitrary as anyone's personal code could be, and there are massive gaps and contradictions as well.

A person can be good for illogical reasons, and a person can be evil for logical reasons. Athiests being insecure of their own morality is what causes them to crusade for what they perceive to be social justice. Just look at how American slavery has essentially become the original sin of all white people in their eyes, and how white people need to be perpetually atoning for this sin or otherwise they would be considered immoral.

>>139901169
Hide post.

>>139900884
I'm sure you believe there is no such thing as "absolute truth". In fact, I bet you believe it, absolutely.

>>139900873
That wasn't the right thing to do though.

>>139901300
...Said the silly person who keeps on digging himself deeper with every post.

>>139891231
Muslims are the most moral people then because they follow their religion more closely than most Christians.
The most highly moral Muslims must be Isis, because they follow the word of their prophet to the letter.

>>139900016
Htf can you say that motive doesn't matter?

Person A: Does not want to kill people and refrains from doing so because they know it is wrong.
Person B: Really wants to kill people, but refrains from doing so because they fear bwing caught.

According to you Person A and Person B are no different and morally equal because neither have killed anyone.

>>139901300
Ah I see, so you adhere to Christian morals without believing in God? How is this any different than intelligent design? Are you not just cherry picking from the bible? You consider people inferior for need a belief in God to adhere to your morals, but these morals are still based in dogma all the same.

>>139891850
>one atheists morals are not the same as another's
This is true of every religious person and people in general. Go outside and meet someone and you'll figure that out.

Morals come from human interaction with other humans.
Like manners.
We learn manners and morals to get by in the company of other people.
If someone's behavior is disgusting to other people, that person is shunned by the rest. Because people are social creatures, we try to get along with each other, because we are stronger together.
It's nothing more than a survival trait.

>>139901730
Law is consequential, a criminal is a person who commits a crime. There is no law against thinking something, there are only laws against actions.

It is not illegal to be immoral, it is only illegal to commit crimes. Thus, a person can be immoral but not a criminal.

>>139902120
>It's nothing more than a survival trait.
Indeed, and it's also why morality can change over time. This flexibility is what allows superior morals to be formed. For instance, the idea of marriage was an innovation not the default state. Marriage resulted in most men acquiring a mate and having a stake in society, prior to that single men had no reason to contribute to society and often had no qualms stealing from it.

Communism was an invention of a new set of morals, but because the idea of abolishing private property is simply retarded and bad for society it is no surprise that any country that adopts this morality inevitability fails.

>>139902237
We are not talking about laws here we are talking about morality.
The entire debate here is that christcucks say that you cannot be moral without religion. Their argument is that without fear of punishment you cannot be moral.
My argument is that fear of punishment does not make you moral as illustrated in my prev post.

>>139901901
I've not read the bible yet I wouldn't kill someone. Even if I thought they deserved it and that I'd get away with it. Weird huh? It's almost as if morality is something you understand.
Dogma is based on human morality. Fucking brainlet.
Sorry to break this to you, but the Jewish mythology you adhere to is mythology.

>>139901584
The thing about Islam is that it's polygamous destines it towards two different modes. Polygamy by it's nature results in men not being able to acquire a wife. If one man marries 10 women, then 9 men will not have a wife. These 9 men then have to decide how to acquire a wife. They have two choices, conquest (jihad) or revolution.

You can see this mode of conduct as throughout history Islamists were quite imperialistic and had no qualms invading lands to steal and marry woman. However, if there were no vulnerable non-muslim lands available to steal women from they had to look inwards instead.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Fitna
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Fitna
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Fitna
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Fitna

>>139903473
>Sorry to break this to you, but the Jewish mythology you adhere to is mythology.
I'm a deist

>I've not read the bible yet I wouldn't kill someone. Even if I thought they deserved it and that I'd get away with it. Weird huh? It's almost as if morality is something you understand.
>Dogma is based on human morality. Fucking brainlet.
Already you've arrived at a conundrum. Is it immoral to kill someone to protect your property? Is it illegal to kill someone to protect yourself? Legally it's not murder. Is abortion murder? Murder and killing are two separate things, yet you conflate them.

In the Bible it states
>thou shalt not murder
Yet, murder by definition is illegal killing. This illegal killing is defined by Jewish law in the Bible, yet you without a book think murder is wrong? Yet, the only reference you have is law for defining "illegal" killing.

>>139904152
>>139903096
>>139903473
If someone attacks me, I'll have no qualms killing them to protect myself and I'd certainly think they deserved it. Would that be immoral?

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>>139891231

I wasnt aware that the godless were for the most part even trying.

>>139891850
if it comes out of the mouth of another human being it is not to be trusted without verifiable proof.

but generally speaking most people are so stupid being lied to about being rewarded in the after life for not killing and eating people, is essential.

Some of you people need the Lord. No joke. In your vernacular... He's the only way to really "unfuck your shit." That's why you are so empty and angry inside, you don't really believe in anything.

>>139904266
No.

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Atheists are more moral than theists.
When theists do good deeds, true they may be doing it out of the kindness out of their heart, but they're also doing it so they go to heaven and not hell.
Atheists don't believe in heaven or hell. They don't believe they'll ever be repaid for their actions. When they do good deeds, it's 100% out of the goodness of their heart. Therefore, they have better morals.
I don't know how people in the 21st century, the century where science has advanced to a point where we're literally colonizing another fucking planet can still believe there's a miracle performing hippie in the sky. Fucking bullshit.
>inb4 hahah edgy atheist hahaha

>>139905889
Another thing to consider. If religion is necessary for some people to not commit immoral acts, is it immoral to convince them the religion is false? You claim a person who would otherwise commit immoral acts but doesn't because he's afraid of hell is ultimately immoral. However, if that's the case, would it be immoral to free these immoral people from the chains that restrict them?

God is purported to be omnipotent, the justice system however is not. By convincing an innately immoral person that divine justice doesn't exist, are you not essentially ensuring the rise of immorality?

>>139907207
Communists have a higher death toll than Christians in the last couple of centuries, why are athiests so smug in their antitheism?

>>139907207
>An Islamist conquers my country and tells me to convert or die
>A Communist conquers my country and tells me to accept the "truth" or die
Athiest tell me, what is the difference? Your petty distinction of "religion" is worthless.

It's impossible if the dedinition of "moral" is constantly up for debate.

>>139891231
This is the most retarded logic
Imagine it was parents instead of religion
>Can't be moral without parents to punish you for doing wrong and to teach you right
Guess what almost no adult lives with their parents and people who move out have morals along with those who didn't have parents at all.
I've also had "religious" friends who steal and shit mean while I never was religious and haven't stolen anything, raped, murdered, or assaulted anyone.
Just atmit that if you need an imaginary parent to punish you for doing wrong your a manchild who needs an imaginary friend to keep them from being selfish and asshole in genral.

>>139907207
Thats actually not the protestants belief at all. They believe that you are saved through grace and your belief in God and Jesus as atonement for your sins. Someone who believes, should bear Christ like fruit and endeavor to honor the teachings of Christ because their hearts have been affected and changed through their belief. They should feel compelled not to sin if they actually believe. One of the major lessons in Christianity is that all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. No one can earn their way into heaven and need God's grace. I mean I get of its not your thing but it's really really ignorant to just completely bastardize their theology and think it's an argument. If a Christian read that I'm sure it would only injure your ability to persuade them to see your pov.

What the atheists do is take a moral code, and ethos, and take it off of the sanctified pedestal which says "Word of God" and reassigned it to the lowly level of the individual human mind so that instead of being sanctified, our moral code is more just a set of loose malleable guidelines that are subject to individuals fancies etc. It amounts to each person's own little version of "don't be a dick." Which is really a joke. A sad sorry people of nothingness who believe they are as cosmically valuable as a bug on their windshield.

>>139908426
>Just atmit that if you need an imaginary parent to punish you for doing wrong your a manchild who needs an imaginary friend to keep them from being selfish and asshole in genral.
So then, why are you insistent on convincing people this imaginary friend doesn't exist, if he is the only thing stopping them from committing immoral acts?

If a person acts morally for irrational reasons, why do people claiming to be "moral" insist on proving their irrational reasoning to be wrong?