I know that civic nationalists get shit on here but I don't

>>139674301
>Why is participating in intranational racial identity politics do necessary?

Because the other side is doing it too

>All I want are sane policies that promote the long term interests of my countrymen, and not have mass immigration that dilutes our society.

That translates to "Literal Nazi" in the mind of a normie

America was founded on the principles of civic nationalism. Look where it got us.

>>139674301
All I want is a cute uncut ginger twink to stuff my mouth

>>139674666
It got us many years of prosperity, it's only since feminism that it has broke down

Remove women's voting rights and literally everything will be fixed

>>139674666
That's quite wrong. It was built on individualism.

>>139674666
America was +85% white up until the immigration act of 1965. Guess who championed that one

>>139674666
Our founders were very strict about the racial makeup of the country.

>>139674879
Liberalism was destroyed and recreated by the elite. To pretend our founding principles got us here is absurd.

>>139674866
>>139674901

>Guess who championed that one

The people who were enabled by civic nationalism to subvert the nation that adopted them.

Cultural nationalism is the superior compromise position.

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>>139674301
>still debating civic nationalism vs ethnic nationalism
>not taking the national transhumanism red pill

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>>139674301
Are you retarded?

>civic nationalists: any amount of shitskins can come here so long they assimilate! hurr durr
>non-retards: so you're going to displace, and then replace the native population with unchecked waves upon waves of immigrants, which is EXACTLY what progressives want, the only difference is some basic, unverifiable, token lip service to becoming "assimilated"

Fuck off kike

>>139675235
Culture comes from race

maybe because you guys barely leave the house and don't have the life experience or maturity to be talking about such grand subjects

>>139675382
Ad hominem

Not an argument

>>139675092
This is some cuckpill shit you're on, fampai.

Every society goes through ideological changes due to tons of factors. You could equivalently say they were enabled by christianity, but i doubt you're going to agree to that.

>>139675316
Prove it.

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>>139674666

>>139674301
SLIDE THREAD

>>139675569
Who developed European culture? Who developed Asian culture?

>>139675256
nope this is a flawed view my friend.
>>can manipulate genetics
>>make everyone in the world white
>>die of a disease that only kills whites
>>world ends

or

>>can manipulate genetics
>>make this tech mandatory around the world
>>tall high iq whites with its best genes augmented
>>tall high iq blacks with its best genes augmented
>>tall high iq yellows with its best genes augmented
>>tall high iq browns with its best genes augmented
>>in less than 100 years wars will stop
>>we start bringing earth back to life

>>139675693
There is no one European culture, there is no one Asian culture. Greece is very different from England and India is very different from Japan.

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>>139675316
This. Culture and race are intrinsically bound and inseparable, which is another huge part of why civic nationalism is flawed on the fundamental level.

>>139675569
Just look at cultural trends throughout history, its pretty fucking obvious it does.
Cultural mores, standards, etc. have always developed along strict racial lines, and they continue to do so, even in this age of "progressiveness"

Even when you get a cultural trend that seems to have members of all races, (i.e. gang/hood culture), each race has their own observable variation of it. Just look at wiggers vs actual nigger gangbangers, vs hispanic gangers. Very clear differences.

>>139674301
its just shareblue shit stirrers trying to drive a wedge in the nationalist community to keep us fighting each other instead of against globalism.

>>139675316
Belgium and the Netherlands are culturally but not racially distinct.

>>139674666

back then civic nationalism just meant different types of europeans though, nobody thought indians, east asians, or africans would ever be let in or find a way to get here.

This was back in a time when marrying outside of your community was even a strange thing for more lower class people.

>>139676087
>>139676082

>>139676332
Yeah because all cultures in Europe and Asian developed in isolated and sterile environments from each other, right?

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>>139676082
>>139676332
>There is no one European culture, there is no one Asian culture
This doesn't actually prove anything one way or the other, you're just stating the obvious. How about you say something with actual substance to it? Seriously what the fuck.

>greece is very different from england
>greek culture arose from greek people
>english culture arose from anglo-saxons
Retardation.

>>139674301
Ethnonationalism is the centrist position between tribal chauvinism and ethnic tolerance. I'm actually happy that there isn't much intra-european conflict, whites don't slaughter each other anymore. But the tolerance got a bit overboard and mcuh too fast, now we accept the whole world before we even got the chance to unite.

>>139674666
>be founder
>rebel against the crown
>form country
>make it a literal white nationalist state
>centuries later, people are convinced you made some bullshit civcuck faggotry

>>139676638
That doesn't really prove anything one way or the other, either.

>>139674879
>>139675018
>>139675501
>>139675593
>>139676266

>nobody thought indians, east asians, or africans would ever be let in or find a way to get here.

You idiots just don't get it, do you?

It doesn't matter what our ancestors thought, or intended, or whether America was founded on this principle or that principle that was supposed to keep this modern hellhole from becoming a reality.

The fact of the matter is that where we were then led to where we are today. And that means that IT DOES NOT WORK. Period, full stop.

You can blather on all you like about how it would have worked if such and such had happened. But it didn't happen, did it?

Hitting the reset button does nothing except lead to the exact situation we are in today two centuries down the road, meaning your children, if you are allowed to have them, will be facing the same situation you are today with nothing to show for it.

>>139676692
Difference in culture in racial groups shows culture is not determined by race. How is that not of substance?

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>>139674666
It was first decided in 1908 that pic related girl is white and not asian. Benjamin Franklin was not happy with the huge amount of Germans moving into your ''civic nationalist'' America. Stop marxist-washing history. Not being a racist is extremely recent phenomenon, and we are starting to understand why.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definitions_of_whiteness_in_the_United_States

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>>139677111
Are you seriously saying that Europeans are all one race and that asians are all one race?

>>139676999
I was only pointing out that you were wrong about the founding fathers being civcucks.

>>139677371

>>139676262

>>139677371
That's how many are cutting it these days. If you want to go down to countries I'll just show variance in the culture of countries. American South vs. American North. Scots vs. English. There can even be variance inside of those.

The only acceptable type of civic nationalism IMO os one with a strong eugenic base but most civnats don't even accept that. Covnats are people with he right intentions but without the realization that the improvement and restoration of this country to greatness and propriety will require hard decisions.

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>>139677434
Belgium actually is ethnically distinct from the netherlands.

Most of the residents in the netherlands are Dutch, whereas in belgium, there are two main ethnic groups, the walloons and flemish. There have even been multiple separatist movements from the walloons and flemish to form their own ethnostate over the years, and this is why most people call Belgium a non-country you stupid shit.

The fact that you think belgium and the netherlands aren't racially distinct speaks volumes about your ignorance about the entire subject.

>>139677833
or excuse me, aren't *ethnically diverse, since technically they're of the white "race." Semantics.

>>139676999
shut the fuck up faggot, let's stop pretending the civnat cucks even have thought out their ideology that they didn't even label until a few months ago when they fell for the civnat psyop; civnats are simply nationalists with watered down views because they don't want to get called racisss, basically liberals

>>139677904
You said culture and race are united, but now you're saying culture and ethnicity are united, those are very different views mate.

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>>139677665
>That's how many are cutting it these days
So lets see, you're defining the terms of race and ethnicity in such a way that they entirely suit your argument, so you can automatically dismiss anyone who disagrees with you? That's... real mature. Fuck off?

>Scots vs. English
different ethnicities.

>american south vs american north
Also demonstrably ethnically different.
Of course, American whites are different from European whites, since American whites are almost entirely mixed whites now.

Also, there's the fact that yes, different parts of a theoretically ethnically-homogenous country will have different customs from town to town, but these differences pale in comparison to those between different ethnic and racial groups.

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>>139674301

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>>139678261
Race - mongoloids (asians) vs caucasoids (europeans/middle east) vs negroids (niggers) vs australoids. Or, whites vs semites vs blacks vs asians vs polynesians, etc. etc.

Ethnicity has always typically referred to further categorizing peoples into more specific groups within each race.

I have not changed definitions, I have moved from talking about race to ethnicity since our discussion has focused from race on a global scale, to talking about European and the different cultures on the European continent.

Surely you can stop being so petty about semantics?... probably not :^)

>>139677833
http://www.eupedia.com/europe/benelux_france_dna_project.shtml#Benelux

There is variety of course but you see bigger differences internally in France than between Belgium and the Netherlands. The groups you mentioned are to a significant degree cultural.

>>139678740
>Ethnicity has always typically referred to further categorizing peoples into more specific groups within each race.
some examples being flemish vs walloon vs french vs german vs polish, all of these ethnicities being part of the common definition of what the white race is.

Just wanted to add examples to clear any confusion on your part.

>>139678789
>The groups you mentioned are to a significant degree cultural.
There are huge cultural differences in Belgium between the Flemish and Walloons, and from the dutch in the netherlands, just as there are very clear and defined ethnic differences between all these groups.
You haven't proved anything by saying "The groups you mentioned are to a significant degree cultural.", and haven't disproved what I'm saying in the slightest.

Also, do you think all of france shares one singular "french" culture? There are different cultural trends throughout france, and there always has been throughout history. The key point being that differences between different regions in france aren't that large as compared to the differences between the french and the germans, or the french and the flemish etc.

>>139678740
Let's take a step back. I was arguing race and culture are not linked, I used ethnicity differences as a way of showing that model as inaccurate. I'm not quite sure what you were arguing anymore.

>>139679108
Yes, France shares a greater culture, divided into smaller regional sub-cultures, and more recently some alien cultures.

I've sourced my position with that link. You're just saying 'no you'.

>>139679380
I have to leave the computer for a second, I won't be able to respond for a minute or two, excuse me.

>>139674301
Because Anon the damage has been done. We need to cleans our society from the Jews and mud people

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>>139674301
Even the founders of our country understood civic cuckism would fail. They fucked up when they let the dredges of Europe inhabit America, starting with the Germans.

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>>139674666
Yeah, Germans ruined fucking everything and yet they larp as being the "master race".

>>139679596
I'm back.

>>139674301
Civic nationalists are literally science-deniers.

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>>139679380
Oh gee, whoops, I suppose I did shift definitions of race vs ethnicity. Well, my bad. This doesn't really change what I"m trying to get at though, because going back to the original argument
>>139675316
>>139675569
Ok, culture doesn't come from race, but it is very intrinsically tied to ethnicity. These ethnicities which go on to make up each race, if we are going by the definitions i outlined in >>139678740
So, yeah I went full retard in this post >>139677371, but the idea that culture is very dependent on their genetic heritage (ethnicity) is very correct.

>>139674301
If you like the way things are now, then keep pushing civic nationalism.

I hate the term "civic nationalism". it is confusing. Americans who want to put down the commie menace and don't mind the best pajeets living here are not the same as centrist cucks who think muh principles and voting will save the country.

the term civic nationalism does not clearly denote one or the other in conversation

>>139674301
if you are a nationalist then you would want what is best for your country, not to weaken their genetics

>>139676999
We should clone Jackson and let him genocide the mexicans. Trail of beans incoming.

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>>139679413
The graphs in the link you posted dont really prove anything, though. Who's to say which haplogroup maps better define ethnic lines, and which ones are less significant. I mean, biologists and the like are the ones who have authority on this subject, but I'm not a biologist and I'm going to wager you aren't one either.

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>>139680789

>>139680271
Finally, someone else who realized America was gone from the get-go.

WASP America = the one true America

The Germans and Scandinavians stole the AS right from under us, then the Irish, Italians and Slavs stole the P, and now the Latinos, Asians and Arabs are coming for the W.

America has been dying on the vine for the last two centuries. Now comes the final nail in the coffin.

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>>139680789

>>139680368
I suppose I could live with that, though one has to admit culture in ethnic groups is very fluid. Many European countries have changed from branch to branch of Christianity.

>>139680930
could I have some context for what this map is about lol

>>139674301
Civic/ethno shitflinging nationalist threads are shill threads, simple.

>>139680789
It shows at least 8 genetic groupings, All of which are more varied within France than between Belgium and the Netherlands. Pick which ones you like, my position doesn't change.

>>139681087
This is based on language which is cultural.

>>139681200
genetic similarity laid over a map of europe

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>>139674301
This board moves in memetics faster than the rest of the world.

>Memetics is the study of information based on an analogy with Darwinian evolution. Proponents describe memetics as an approach to evolutionary models of cultural information transfer.

Memes are basically ideas or concepts that exist beyond a single person, and they are subject to a form of natural selection similarly found in Darwinian evolution. 4chan is a medium where memetics moves at a very very rapid pace and may literally evolve to be hostile to its own memetic ancestors (it's quite obvious with the way /pol/ devours traditional Libertarian ideology despite being strongly Libertarian in the past). I don't know if /pol/ is correct in what it currently thinks, but if /pol/ is hostile towards civic nationalism and civic nationalism doesn't stand on its own, that means civic nationalism still has some evolving to do and isn't robust.

>>139681515
civic nationalism fails because it fails to strengthen its people through racial purification, it is an appeasement ideology

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>>139675316
>>139675693
>>139676087

These arguments do not prove that the mind is made by the body. They do not demonstrate that intelligence and personality are predetermined by your genes. If biological racialism were the answer to everything then Alexandre Dumas, one of the greatest minds France ever produced and a perfect Frenchman in every way, would be an impossibility. How is he to be accounted for in simplistic materialistic terms?

>>139681686

You presume that "racial purification" i.e. materialism is what makes us what we are, rather than our own immortal and immaterial soul exercising its freedom of will.

>>139681188
culture is always a rapidly changing beast, no matter what. When it does change though, the changes always disperse among ethnic lines, and when cultural trends do cross ethnic lines, each ethnic/racial group has their own take on it.

For example, gang culture always manifests different along ethnic lines. You can even see different races behave differently on twitter with twitter memes, or facebook.

>>139681328
walloons speak french, so no, if it was defined by language, you would just call the region "french" instead of walloon. Try again.

>>139681328
>It shows at least 8 genetic groupings, All of which are more varied within France than between Belgium and the Netherlands.
You have absolutely nothing to prove they are more varied or have more observable genetic differences, than of the ethnic differences found between Flems/waloons/dutch.

Dont forget that there are cultural differences between different regions in france - > different regions in france have different customs - > cultural differences still have a trend based on ethnicity.

Also don't forget that despite being ethnically different, everyone in France (not including shitskins) is still white. Obviously there are no strict, definable rules but you must be able to see that cultural differences and changes very often disperse along ethnic boundaries more than anything else.

>>139681776
>i.e. materialism
no genetics

>is what makes us what we are
Yes, objectively

> rather than our own immortal and immaterial soul
only humans have souls, not subhumans

>exercising its freedom of will
doesnt exist

>>139681697
>that the mind is made by the body.
the mind is the body, senpai.

> intelligence and personality are predetermined by your genes
Your intelligence is entirely defined by your genes. People aren't magically given "extra intelligence" by the some magic blue fairy, their intelligence and their IQ potential is very strictly defined by their genes.

>>139681776
I'm pretty sure genetics make us who we are.

>>139674301
civic nationalism will likely remove white people through fertility.

ethnonationalism sounds too racist though (well that's a plus for /pol/, though)

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>>139674301

Because of reality. The reality is most minorities vote democrat, because they come from 3rd world peasant shitholes. Import more of them, eventually republicanism is gone = death of America. You cuckservatives are so afraid of being called racist, that you won't fight the practical battle. You seem to think that these people come here because they like America and our values. The reality is, they come for the money, nothing else. Thus a more radical action is needed.

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>>139681974
>>139682010

This is a 20th-century idea which is completely antithetical to the traditional beliefs of the West going all the way back to the ancient Greeks. The overwhelming majority of great thinkers in both Western and Eastern civilization have believed in the soul.

When you take the soul away, you are left with two options: Naziism or Communism. The Nazi tries to breed a better man, the Communist, to make one by changing the environment. The outcome in both cases has always been mass barbarity and extermination.

Nations have risen and fallen again and again; Aristocracies have risen and fallen; most great men have come from humble origins. The genetic theory of the mind is completely antithetical to all that we observe in history.

>>139682466
>When you take the soul away, you are left with two options: Naziism or Communism.
define "the soul"

>>139681863
Wish I could discuss properly, but I'm phoneposting at work. You're missing my point a bit. Read that link. French national culture crosses multiple genetic groupings. Belgian/Dutch cultures are distinct despite *relative* genetic similarities. Yes there is a strong correlation between race and culture. My argument is that while they correlate they are not inseparable, and that culture determines a person's behavior more than race, which is why I think cultural nationalism is a reasonable position to take.

Civic nationalism is alright, but illegals need to be deported, borders need to be closed, welfare needs to end, and white % of the population needs to be boosted to at least 80%. to accomplish the boost I would give tax breaks to rural areas who have more than 2 kids, and if possible, also institute a 1 child policy in cities to target non whites who have too much. this plan is perfect and actually possible, only retards who want race war would disagree.

>>139682531

The immortal, spiritual substance out of which is comprised the individual self which is conscious of itself and makes decisions.

>>139682466
wrong

>Alfred Rosenberg—one of the principal architects of Nazi ideological creed—argued for a new "religion of the blood", based on the supposed innate promptings of the Nordic soul to defend its "noble" character against racial and cultural degeneration.

> In his work Racial Characteristics of the Jewish People, he defined the racial soul of the Near Eastern race as emphasizing a "commercial spirit" (Handelgeist), and described them as "artful traders" - a term that Gunther ascribed as being used by Jewish racial theorist Samuel Weissenberg to describe contemporary Armenians, Greeks, and Jews.[39] Günther added to that description of the Near Eastern type as being composed primarily of commercially spirited and artful traders, by claiming that the type held strong psychological manipulation skills that aided them in trade.[39] He claimed that the Near Eastern race had been "bred not so much for the conquest and exploitation of nature as it was for the conquest and exploitation of people".[39]

>>139682466
>The overwhelming majority of great thinkers in both Western and Eastern civilization have believed in the soul.

so do people who believe in genetics and race

>When you take the soul away, you are left with two options: Naziism or Communism

proven incorrect as showen earlier

> The outcome in both cases has always been mass barbarity and extermination.

your knowledge of history is shameful if you think peoples havent been exterminated before

>>139674301
>but I don't quite understand why.
Let's say hypothetically, 100 million Japanese women showed up on the border.
Every last one of them want to immigrate legally, go through whatever vetting you'd support, would assimilate, would have jobs, would not commit crimes and would not accept government handouts.

Would you civcuck nationalists allow them in?

Of course you would.

Because you don't care about the existence or survival of the White race.

That's why we shit on you and hate you.

>>139682845
>>139682466

>Nazi racial theorist Hans F. K. Günther identified the European race as having five subtype races: Nordic, Mediterranean, Dinaric, Alpine, and East Baltic.[35] Günther applied a Nordicist conception that Nordics were the highest in the racial hierarchy amongst these five European subtype races.[35] In his book Rassenkunde des deutschen Volkes (1922) ("Racial Science of the German People"), Günther recognized Germans as being composed of all five European subtypes, but emphasized the strong Nordic heritage amongst Germans.[36] Günther believed Slavic people to be of "Eastern race", one that was separate from Germans and Nordics, and warned about mixing "German blood" with Slavic one.[37] He defined each racial subtype according to general physical appearance and their psychological qualities including their "racial soul" - referring to their emotional traits and religious beliefs, and provided detailed information on their hair, eye, and skin colours, facial structure.[36]

>>139682845

Rosenberg spoke of "the blood-bound national character." His concept of a "race-soul" has nothing whatever to do with the real and traditional soul. It is simply materialism couched in a new terminology. All Jews according to him were prone to "think talmudically."

>>139683007

The twentieth century is a unique phenomenon in history in its democidal barbarity and destruction--that is, systematic annihilation by virtue of government policy. Nothing else compares to it. Simple wars are not the same thing.

>>139683055
>100 million
We don't have the infrastructure to support such an immigration, though, so no one would except that many. But allowing a decent amount wouldn't be too bad.

>>139683055
>100 million waifus

Sign me up

>>139683267
>His concept of a "race-soul" has nothing whatever to do with the real and traditional soul.
how so? their definition matches yours
>The immortal, spiritual substance out of which is comprised the individual self which is conscious of itself and makes decisions.

>>139683055

The trouble with you racial extremists is that anything less than 100% is good enough for you. We who are not of your kind say that we should be happy with a state made of (say) 95% of the indigenous population, which could probably be achieved by means of stopping immigration and instituting a scheme of voluntary repatriation. No, no, you say: that would "corrupt the blood": every single last one must go. Naziism is the only way forward. And then you wonder why we never get anywhere. The population at large will never accept such a thing, because they are not barbarians. Everybody in Britain now knows at least one non-white person and they understand by personal contact with those people that they are just as human as they are; sometimes people of upstanding character and intellect, patriots, and far more worthy to be had than any degenerate white Communists who would open the borders and destroy this country for good.

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>>139682045
I disagree. Ethnonationalism being racist isn't inherently a plus for /pol/. There are some who quite clearly don't like the concept.

Those who are claiming that there are shills that attempt to poison /pol/ with Nazi stuff, racism, are right. There are those who are trying to poison the meme pool with bad memes. Unfortunately for these shills, /pol/ just processes the poison and may even derive positive memetic traits out of it.

Look at the two anons hammering out the finer points of a complex philosophical and ideological points of Nazi-ism and its relation with the genetic mind/immortal soul, complete with quotations, in the time it takes for me to write this single post. The rate of memetic processing here is insane.

The damage civic nationalism undergoes here tells me enough that it isn't going to stand up in the long run. Ethnonationalism also undergoes damage here. There won't even be a "compromise" between the two, they'll eat each other and turn into a whole new kind of monster, with the fittest meme on top. That's all I know.

>>139683445
Yea, when you wipe out the males of another tribe and all their women jump off a cliff it actually is pretty similar, more effective than we have been

>>139683782
>The trouble with you racial extremists is that anything less than 100% is good enough for you
Wrong, nazi's let people with 25% jew blood

>>139683736

If that was what Rosenberg meant when he said "soul" then his whole philosophy of racial extremism was a fraud. If every soul is capable of exercising free will, then every man is unique, and it is wrong to condemn all men of such-and-such a race as being inextricably such-and-such a way.

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>>139683782
let me know when you get tired of making things up

>>139683594
>We don't have the infrastructure to support such an immigration, though, so no one would except that many
5 million every year for the next 20 years then.

>But allowing a decent amount wouldn't be too bad.
Except for the survival of the White race.

Which is why civcuck nationalists should be shat on.

They care nothing for the existence and survival of the White race.

They'd claim the Jewnited States of Amurrica would still be the ole JewSA if it was 100% non-White. And they'd be fine with it.


>>139683727
>muh dik

>>139683788
kill yourself normie faggot

>>139683894

100% racially pure. In other words, you considered a 25% Jew racially pure enough to stay; but all the full-blooded Jews had to go. "There was none righteous, no, not one." Felix Mendelssohn would have been considered unworthy of Germany.

>>139684177
>you considered a 25% Jew racially pure enough to stay
me? no thats nazi germany.

you argued racial extremists demand 100% racial purity, that clearly was not the case for nazi germany.. unless you dont consider them racial extremists

>>139683782
>The trouble with you racial extremists is that anything less than 100% is good enough for you.
Non-Whites don't belong in White countries.

>We who are not of your kind say that we should be happy with a state made of (say) 95% of the indigenous population, which could probably be achieved by means of stopping immigration and instituting a scheme of voluntary repatriation.
Which would never be legally allowed.

>No, no, you say: that would "corrupt the blood": every single last one must go.
Yes, they do. There's literally nothing wrong with an all-White country. I'd also say there's nothing wrong with an all-black country but I'm not black.

>Naziism is the only way forward.
*National Socialism

>And then you wonder why we never get anywhere.
Not that you care about the survival of the White race anyways.

>The population at large will never accept such a thing, because they are not barbarians.
Who said we'd gain power via voting? The White race will never be allowed to free itself from the Jew via voting.

>Everybody in Britain now knows at least one non-white person and they understand by personal contact with those people that they are just as human as they are;
And Britain is incredibly cucked and anti-White. Well on its way to be an anti-White/non-White country.

>sometimes people of upstanding character and intellect, patriots, and far more worthy to be had
Doesn't matter how "good" they might be. They don't belong.

>than any degenerate white Communists
Just goes to show you don't know shit about National Socialism.

>who would open the borders and destroy this country for good.
You'd sacrifice the existence of the White race all to avoid being called a "racist". You're anti-White.

>>139684086

>They'd claim the Jewnited States of Amurrica would still be the ole JewSA if it was 100% non-White. And they'd be fine with it.

Straw-man.

Enoch Powell was a "civic nationalist" by your definition of the term. He said that, although he was "conscious of the differences between men and nations," it was wrong to "despise a human being because he belongs to another race," or to believe "that one race is inherently superior to another." He said that it was "possible to be both black and British, but difficult." And yet he wanted to stop all immigration, institute a scheme of voluntary repatriation, and try to preserve Britain as an overwhelmingly ethnically British country. You are putting a man like that on a level with a Communist who would open the gates to all and sundry without a care in the world. It is a downright fallacy.

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>>139682577
I'll read the article after this post, but if we were to assume that you were correct:

>and that culture determines a person's behavior more than race
I suppose I can't argue against that, but with the strong correlation between race and culture, it would be naive and incorrect to say that any race can simply adopt any culture. Perhaps on a theoretical level, they can, or perhaps it can work pragmatically on a small scale, i.e. one immigrant family in a town.
But, when you import displacement-levels of immigrants into a country, as seen in the european refugee crisis, the racial new-comers do not adopt the native culture, or have their own distinct version of it when they do (which is essentially same as not adopting the native culture, since its different.) You see this plenty in Europe and America, where large-scale minority communities are not integrating, and form their own small cultural microcosms.

Hence why civic nationalism and cultural nationalism still dont work, even if race and culture are separable to an overly generous degree. Racially different immigrants dont adopt the culture of the native race, so there will never be a common national culture to get behind, and without a shared culture, cultural nationalism cannot become a thing.
>>139682738
So if you take a person's ability to make decisions away and take their consciousness away, since that is what the soul gives a person, as you say... then a person defaults to either naziism or communism? That's absurd nonsense.

>>139684086
If those Japs are just as good as Europeans, what's the big fuss? It's the Whites deciding to mate with them in the first place anyway.
And you know 5 million each year is still too big. Maybe a few thousand every year.

>>139678447
Congratulations you're the stupidest poster itt.

>>139684520
>what's the big fuss?
dont play coy :^)

>>139684645
Hmm... not an argument.

>>139684433

I was replying to somebody with a Nazi flag, you jumped in to defend him with your point.

You have completely missed my point if you imagine that Nazi Germany's allowing people with 25% Jewish blood to remain in the country alters it in any way.

>>139684488
Wish I could debate further. Cultural conversion is difficult but the demographics are already in place, and the solutions for resolving that apart from cultural conversion are quite frankly monstrous and something I could never truly consider.

>>139684473
>it was wrong to "despise a human being because he belongs to another race,"
Yea, that is a flaw with some, you dont need to hate subhumans to want to purge them from society

>or to believe "that one race is inherently superior to another."
Yep, it requires values. If you believe something like intelligence is good then you can say one race is superior to another.

>He said that it was "possible to be both black and British, but difficult."
Not ethnically british, but can have british citizenship. But i am guessing you are talking about a british soul

>>139684843
not defending him, just that your argument is wrong

>>139684708
>dont play coy :^)
Alright, you tell me. I understand cultures differ and many want to preserve their cultures, but if those women respect that culture I don't see the harm, other than possibly in aesthetics.

>>139684488
Also checked

>>139684473
>Straw-man.
Bullshit. Because that's what's happening to the JewSA and they're fine with it.

Conservatives are just as anti-White as Liberals. The only difference is Liberals want to destroy the White race while Conservatives are fine with the White race being legally destroyed.

>Enoch Powell was a "civic nationalist" by your definition of the term.
And of course you're applying people's beliefs who lived in the past to what is happening today.

>He said that it was "possible to be both black and British, but difficult."
He was wrong in that regard. One can't be black and British anymore than a White could be Asian.

>And yet he wanted to stop all immigration,
Great idea.

>institute a scheme of voluntary repatriation,
And if they don't?
Not that it matters because those policies would never be legally allowed to happen because they're "racist."

Quite simply, a White majority country with a pro-White government will never legally allowed to happen. All thanks to the anti-Whites.

>nd try to preserve Britain as an overwhelmingly ethnically British country.
I want Britain to be British. AKA White.
Non-Whites have no place in Britain.

>>139684520
>If those Japs are just as good as Europeans, what's the big fuss?
They're. Not. White.

>It's the Whites deciding to mate with them in the first place anyway.
In White countries. And you don't see hundreds of millions of non-Asians flooding into Asian countries, do you?

>And you know 5 million each year is still too big. Maybe a few thousand every year.
1 million a year for the next 100 years.

You still support massive non-White immigration into White countries (and only White countries) because you don't care about the existence or survival of the White race.

>>139684439

>Non-Whites don't belong in White countries.

They are here now, and we have to decide what to do about it in a rational and humane manner. The white population (and rightly so) will never take the side of a barbarian who wants to persecute every last one out of them out of existence.

>Which would never be legally allowed.

If you think that my scheme would never be legally allowed (i.e. voted for), how in Heaven's name do you think Naziism will ever come to fruition?

>Yes, they do. There's literally nothing wrong with an all-White country. I'd also say there's nothing wrong with an all-black country but I'm not black.

The existential problem is already here. It would have been better to have prevented it, but one must deal with reality as it stands.

>National Socialism

Both Father Coughlin and Sir Oswald Mosley call it "Nazism" or "Naziism." Their use of language is good enough for me.

>Not that you care about the survival of the White race anyways.

People like you will be screaming about racial purity until the End Times when scarce a white man is left breathing in Europe, if you have your way. Nobody is ever going to hear it.

>You'd sacrifice the existence of the White race all to avoid being called a "racist". You're anti-White.

No. Believing as you people do is easy. All you have to do is stifle your conscience and your heart, and decide that you will mistreat and persecute millions of people. All you have to do is go along with your ready-made ideology with all the answers made out for you--no nuance to it at all--and blindly follow.

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>>139685061
Clearly racemixing between whites and japanese would change more than just "aesthetics", even if whites and japanese are of equal intellectual standing.

The entire viewpoint of racists is that race is much more than skin deep, aka aesthetics. How a person behaves and thinks is entirely determined by ethnicity and race. There's even a growing science around this, behavioral genetics. From wikipedia:
>Findings from behavioural genetic research have broadly impacted modern understanding of the role of genetic and environmental influences on behaviour. These include evidence that nearly all researched behaviors are under a significant degree of genetic influence, and that influence tends to increase as individuals develop into adulthood.

So when you say Japs are "just as good as europeans," this disingenuously implies that japs and europeans are the same in all ways except aesthetics/skin color, which is false. And race-mixing between japs and whites would destroy this important and sacred difference, which is why "there is such a fuss over it."

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>>139684488

>Racially different immigrants dont adopt the culture of the native race, so there will never be a common national culture to get behind, and without a shared culture, cultural nationalism cannot become a thing.

This is patently untrue. No matter how far back you go, people were always willing to make exceptions for men of other races, who would indeed assimilate. They did not have a totally fanatic obsession with purity of the blood. The Athenians offered citizenship to Zeno, the founder of Stoicism, and a Phoenician. Julius Caesar and Octavian adopted Juba II, the North African Numidian, and brought him up as one of their own; he later married Cleopatra, a Greek woman. A mixed-race Moor ruled over Florence from 1510 to 1537: Alessandro de Medici, also known as Il Moro. Shakespeare saw nothing wrong in having his hero Othello marry a white woman and be of a noble character. In the 18th century, Dr Samuel Johnson gave a substantial sum of money in his will to his black servant, Francis Barber, who had married a white woman in his life time, so that he evidently saw nothing wrong in this. And one might go on and on. The Athenians, Romans, Florentines, English etc. would not have accepted substantial alien immigration in those days, and they were warm patriots: but they were nevertheless willing to make exceptions, because they believed in the soul. That is the most important thing dividing the past from the modern spirit.

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>>139685582
>They are here now, and we have to decide what to do about it in a rational and humane manner.
Deport them.

>The white population (and rightly so) will never take the side of a barbarian who wants to persecute every last one out of them out of existence.
They don't belong here and they won't have a choice in leaving. Fuck their feelings. Fuck your feelings too.

>If you think that my scheme would never be legally allowed (i.e. voted for), how in Heaven's name do you think Naziism will ever come to fruition?
The upcoming race war when the country collapses or nears collapse.

>The existential problem is already here. It would have been better to have prevented it, but one must deal with reality as it stands.
Well we can't really travel in time now, can we?

>Both Father Coughlin and Sir Oswald Mosley call it "Nazism" or "Naziism." Their use of language is good enough for me.
Well now "Nazi" is used as a slur and insult. Pic related.

>People like you will be screaming about racial purity until the End Times when scarce a white man is left breathing in Europe, if you have your way.
If it's left up to you, there won't be any Whites on the planet, anywhere.

>Nobody is ever going to hear it.
And you'll be screaming how you're not a racist as the Muslim niggers kill you.

>and decide that you will mistreat and persecute millions of people.
And you don't give a fuck about the millions of Whites being mistreated and persecuted by the anti-Whites.

Nor do you care about the existence of the White race.

That's why you're anti-White.

>>139685247

>Conservatives are just as anti-White as Liberals. The only difference is Liberals want to destroy the White race while Conservatives are fine with the White race being legally destroyed.

So do you believe that Ann Coulter or Pat Buchanan are exactly the same as Jeb Bush? Or that Hillary Clinton is just as good as Donald Trump?

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>>139685923
>This is patently untrue.
Oh boy, you better tell the immigrant communities in Europe then, because apparently they should have adopted the culture of the native race by now.

Also, notice how every single one of the examples you listed involve a single foreigner growing up in an otherwise ethnically homogeneous community? There are in fact, displacement levels of foreigners in Europe right now, so none of the examples you listed are actually relevant.

>>139685832
Though this hypothetical assumed they assimilated, implying their behavior can match that of the US. And Jap culture is not extremely different from US culture from the get go. And why is this difference sacred? I'll admit, though, I need to think this part over more, my standpoint on this isn't completely formed.

>>139686123

I care about right and wrong. I don't have a totally fanatic obsession with purity of blood, because I know that the mind is its own entity. When we go to the judgement-seat before God what we shall be judged upon are our actions, not our race. It is important to to be a patriot and a nationalist and proud of one's country and to do the best thing for it, and that includes keeping the indigenous people in the overwhelming majority, because there clearly is a difference--not an intrinsic one, but a difference--between men and nations; but one also has a duty to humanity. People like you have lost sight of the higher purposes of life itself. We are made for more than simple existence, than for mere breeding. We also have friendship, and love, moral duties and obligations, and the cultivation of the higher faculties of the mind, and benevolence not merely to our own countrymen (who should come first) but to all men.

>>139685923
Also, forgot to add, trying to imply that nobody cared about race in the past by listing a paltry few examples otherwise is absurdly incorrect. People were more involved in their own ethnic communities moreso than anyone today is, and this is even what allowed separate ethnicites and races to evolve in the first place. The sheer lack of technology and difficulty of transport in the ancient era essentially forced ethnic communities to stay banded together. And you are incredibly foolish if you actually think xenophobia simply didn't exist in the past (are you braindead?)

So really, listing a paltry few exceptions against the rule proves nothing

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>>139674301
pic related you dumb fuck. it's a slippery slope.

>>139685247
>They're. Not. White.
Just get to the point, why do you think Whiteness is so important that it needs to be protected from those even with similar cultures.

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>>139674666

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>>139686934

See >>139676999.

>>139686208
>So do you believe that Ann Coulter or Pat Buchanan are exactly the same as Jeb Bush?
I think Pat Buchanan is a stealth WN.

But Ann Coulter and Jeb Bush are both anti-White in their core beliefs in that they will eventually cause the extinction of the White race.

> Or that Hillary Clinton is just as good as Donald Trump?
It doesn't matter who is president, the White race is still doomed unless something is done.

Trump is not the savior of the White race that the trumpcucks made him out to be. Trump isn't doing anything to protect White rights (pro-Whites being stripped of our freedom of speech on the internet for example).

>>139686639
>I care about right and wrong.
Is extinction of the White race right or wrong?

>hen we go to the judgement-seat before God what we shall be judged upon are our actions, not our race.
If God asks you why you didn't stop the destruction of one of his creations (the White race) what will you tell him?

> It is important to to be a patriot and a nationalist and proud of one's country and to do the best thing for it,
Without Whites you'd have no country.

>and that includes keeping the indigenous people in the overwhelming majority,
But you won't be allowed to do that, legally. In fact, policies are in place to do the exact opposite.

> The sheer lack of technology and difficulty of transport in the ancient era essentially forced ethnic communities to stay banded together.
And that's natural. Being among ones own people is natural.

>nd you are incredibly foolish if you actually think xenophobia simply didn't exist in the past (are you braindead?)
"xenophobia" is natural. Racism is natural.

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>>139675569
whites can assimilate into white culture but nonwhites don't
qed

>>139686349
>>139686696

If you read my other posts you will see that I do not support mass immigration. I am basically a Powellite. I am well aware that when you have large numbers of immigrants you destroy the national cohesion of a country. I am debating with people who demand 100% purity of blood and contend that all our actions are predetermined by our biological makeup. I am not advocating for open borders; quite the opposite: I am simply saying that exceptions ought to be allowed for people of a good, patriotic and noble character, as it always has been.

You misread my post if you think that my "paltry examples" (I might offer a thousand more) are intended to prove that "nobody cared about race in the past." What I said was, "The Athenians, Romans, Florentines, English etc. would not have accepted substantial alien immigration in those days, and they were warm patriots: but they were nevertheless willing to make exceptions." The Nazi will not make an exception. Every Jew is subhuman, and irrevocably so. Every black is subhuman, and irrevocably so. They must all therefore leave the country lest they taint the "purity" of the race.

>>139686896
>Just get to the point, why do you think Whiteness is so important that it needs to be protected from those even with similar cultures.
Because race is real and race matters. Society is a racial construct. Western (aka White) civilization isn't great because it was coincidentally created by White people. Western Civilization is great because it was created by White people. No other race could've created Western Civilization.

And you want to dump a load of shit into our civilization and claim it's equal and in some respects superior. Or that the White race can survive having a boatload of shit dumped into our society and people.

>>139687215
>If you read my other posts you will see that I do not support mass immigration.
What matters more? Your opinions or the laws currently in place?

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>>139674301
demographics matter faggot, you should be lurking moar

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>>139686565
>And Jap culture is not extremely different from US culture from the get go
hahahahahahahahahahahahaha oh boy. My dear sweetie. What makes you think that?

>And why is this difference sacred?
A nation is only as good as the people that make up the nation. And, if you have a nation of white people, versus a nation of black people, versus a nation of japanese...

You get vastly different nations that arise. Black nations and communities are backwards, corrupt shitholes and ghettos, and this is their own fault. White countries are the envy of all the world, and the Japanese, those honorary aryans, have also made a country just as prosperous and advanced as europe, but just like the different countries in europe, they have their own unique culture which makes them behave very differently. And behaving differently does just make all the difference in the world.

>>139674301
because you don't care if all white people are extinguished, as long as BASED negroes follow the constitution (they won't)

>>139674666
Wrong our founding fathers were ethno nationalists.

If White Nationalists were smart, they'd stay quiet about civic nationalists.

We still have a 90% cucked GOP in charge of the right wing in America. Civic nationalists want all the same things you do, policy wise. Even if they aren't redpilled on race, it's a gigantic leap forward. Think of them as the MLK to your Malcolm X. Normies need less pointed racial rhetoric in order to feel comfortable in a movement.

>>139687090

>Is extinction of the White race right or wrong?

Wrong, obviously. Genocide is wrong. That is why Hitler did wrong.

>If God asks you why you didn't stop the destruction of one of his creations (the White race) what will you tell him?

The existence of a race is not threatened by a small minority living within its borders.

>But you won't be allowed to do that, legally. In fact, policies are in place to do the exact opposite.

The fact that UKIP has been so much more enormously successful than the BNP proves that my way of doing things is infinitely more likely to succeed than yours. You admit that your position is so hopeless that it can only be compassed by violence.

>>139687293
>Western (aka White) civilization isn't great because it was coincidentally created by White people.
No, it's great because of location. Great for agriculture, had plenty of domesticatable animals, had metal and coal easily available, minimal barriers to other civilizations for trade, ect. If Whites were in America with the resources the Indians had, they'd be as unsuccessful as them.

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>>139674301

>>139687215
at some point, people just say "all the blacks/jews must leave," simply because the overwhelming majority of them really must leave if national cohesion of a country is to be re-established.

having "all the blacks leave" vs "have the overwhelming majority leave minus one or two here and there" become pragmatically the same thing. its a mass exodus, which is what matters.

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>>139674301

>>139687623
>The existence of a race is not threatened by a small minority living within its borders
But it is threatened if that minority is on track to become a majority. Ethnic dis(re)placement via mass immigration is immoral for the same reasons colonialism is immoral.

>>139687389
>My dear sweetie. What makes you think that?
Well you said it pretty clearly here:
"the Japanese, those honorary aryans, have also made a country just as prosperous and advanced as europe"
>A nation is only as good as the people that make up the nation.
If Japanese people can make European similar nations, i.e. according to you they behave similar, I still don't understand the problem.

>>139687077
Only whites could be citizens when the country was founded, and that's the actual terminology they used. If the country was founded with white nationalist laws (and it worked for an extended period of time) and then became civic """nationalist""" multicultural trash, that does not mean we wouldn't benefit from a reset. We should reset as well as legislate something along the lines of the National Origins Formula (at the very least) in a manner such that it will never be modified, like the first and second amendments, in order to avoid the recurrence of the situation we're in today.

>>139687819
>No, it's great because of location.
Looks like someone has been reading Guns, Germs, and Steel. Check this out for a general refutation of Jared Diamond's arguments
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskAnthropology/comments/1rzm07/what_are_some_of_the_main_anthropological/

Jared diamond is full of shit.

yeah, its leddit, but whatever. its the first largely comprehensive list that google listed, and it largely falls in line with what I would have said

>>139687922

If we were cut off socialism and institute a scheme of voluntary repatriation then the majority would simply leave of their own accord. Otherwise we can find rational and humane methods to deal with the trouble. Certainly all foreigners, for example, who evince treachery and disloyalty towards the host country should be immediately deported. Criminal foreigners should also be deported. And so forth. Gentler methods should be tried first.

>>139688355
Saying the nations are "similar" is extremely disingenuous, their culture and ways of behavior are absurdly different. You look really dumb when you say that America and Japan are basically culturally the same. I really have to say just get out of your room and into the real world on this one. Japan and america could not be more culturally different.

>>139688355
btw, I did not say they behave similar, in fact I stated they behave very differently.

>they have their own unique culture which makes them behave very differently.
Please actually read

>>139674301
It's very simple.
Society is a racial construct.

>>139688491

Jared Diamond is wrong but so is the racialist way of looking at things. In other words both the Communist and the Nazi are mistaken. The one attributes everything to environment, the other, to biology: the believer in the soul contends that men and nations are responsible for their own actions, and that they rise or fall by their virtues or their vices. Hence why Northern Europe was once barbarous, and Egypt great and flourishing; then Egypt fell, and Northern Europe rose. See Sir John Glubb's "Fate of Empires" (a great man who was clearly no racialist, for he adopted three Middle-Eastern children).

>>139688172

That is why we have to reverse the trouble as best we can, and try to get the numbers of the indigenous population as high as possible, but it is no reason why we should try to impose 100% purity of blood and persecute every single non-white person good or bad. If I had a choice between a hundred thousand white Communist traitors and a hundred thousand good patriotic citizens who were black, Jewish, or what not, I should choose the latter group every time.

>>139688757
I'll be frank, you involve way too much philosophical and spiritual nonsense for me too take you seriously on this. Also tying communism into a discussion on race is dumb. Wtf.

>>139675462
He is not wrong. While I dont know any of you personally, I can easily assume you guys are a bunch of neets who spend much of your time at home watching civic nationalist YouTubers like Sargon or Armored Skeptics.

>>139689116

If we don't have a soul, then we are "made" either by our environment or our genes. The Communist says the environment does it, the Nazi, the genes. If we do have a soul then we choose who we are. Is it really so complicated? I am simply repeating what any European would have traditionally said when he accounted for (say) the fall of Rome. They would have said, "The people degenerated because of their luxury and vices and moral turpitude. That is why Rome fell."

>>139674301
>postmodernism

>>139682626

100% agree with almost all of this, but how do you realistically enforce a 1 child policy?

>>139689400
saying that the communist absolutely believed the environment makes a person is historically nonsense though. The soviets in Russia had many endeavors in racist practices, sometimes genociding non-russians and "russi-fying" regions by colonizing regions with ethnic russians. The Chinese, Koreans, and Vietnamese also have a strong sense of racial boundaries.

Also, defining communism and nazism by making them fall 100% on one side or the other of the nature vs nurture debate so absurdly simplifies both philosophies that you really lose any sense of what a nazi or a communist actually is.

>is it really so complicated
Yes, it is so complicated, nazis and communists were a lot more complex than just being nature vs nurture.

>>139674301
There's a really good Murdoch Murdoch on this.

>>139688416

>We should reset as well as legislate something along the lines of the National Origins Formula (at the very least) in a manner such that it will never be modified, like the first and second amendments, in order to avoid the recurrence of the situation we're in today.

Both of these amendments get trampled on, if not outright ignored, on a regular basis today.

It's not enough to simply codify a concept and assume that future generations will respect it. We currently have a government that ignores the Constitution at will, simply because they can, because we do not stop them. We do not stop them because we are a weak culture composed of weak men who have been mollified by free resources and negligible conflict.

Again, the reset button solves nothing, it simply pushes the problem on to our children, burdening them with social and cultural issues just as deficit spending burdens them with fiscal issues. This is not how parents care for their progeny.

The only path to the true ethnostate is a path where the members of that nation are not only motivated to fight on its behalf, they are forced to fight on its behalf, to make sacrifices to ensure they have a stake in its survival. A constitution is worthless if those who allegedly are beholden to it make no effort to defend its integrity.

>>139688681
I'll admit I misread that part, and I'll agree Japanese culture is different in many ways, but many things are similar as well, such as a drive for success and a good social life and a respect for elders and so on. I think we have two different views on this topic that won't be changed by this discussion, so I think the best action at this point is to end it. It's been fun arguing with you, I hope you have a good night.
>>139688491
I will check into it more, but this still doesn't change the fact that without the resources the West obtained, it would have been incapable of colonizing the world, even if their reasons for expansion weren't completely directed by geography. Have a good night.

>>139678447
>ca
how the fuck is that even possible. 80% of the state is white, and you're telling me the least populated areas of the state are the only part's that aren't majority hispanic?

>>139689643
huge tax incentive for middle class. maybe no tax if you make 50k-100k for joint household and have only one child

>>139690022

Yep

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsuHIZ4n898

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>>139690205

>>139689849

The Communist purges were done in the spirit of, well, we can't effect the Revolution without making a few sacrifices, so let us make them in order to bring about the Utopia. These people are not Revolutionary enough, or they simply have to be expended for such and such a purpose in order to get to such and such a result. It is an outgrowth of materialism just as much as as were the Nazi atrocities, but resulting from a different lower principle deriving from that higher one. In the Nazi case you killed people because they were biologically inferior, and the only way to make a better race was by bettering the genes.

>>139690106
you still really need to get a feel for japanese culture if you unironically make statements like "And Jap culture is not extremely different from US culture from the get go"

>without the resources the West obtained, it would have been incapable of colonizing the world
There are no resources the west had access to that the other peoples of the world did not.

>>139690605
you're kidding yourself if you think xenophobia and racism didn't exist in the soviet union, along with the idea that some races are biologically inferior

>>139690454
i guess hispanics were inlcuded in the white statistics

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>>139690904
its a typical jew tactic desu

>>139690825

The first of your statements does not have a bearing upon my argument; the second is mistaken. "The Soviet Union officially adopted an anti-racist policy from its beginning and never dropped it in its history."

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>>139690994
honestly hispanics are the main race that are causing the change in distribution. nigs don't seem to be changing.

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>>139674301
as a civic nationalist you have no problem with identity politics i'm sure, just when it's practiced for white people.

liberia was founded by the cream of the crop freed slaves to start an american experiment in africa. same constitution and everything.

australia was founded as a british prison colony.

where would you rather live today?

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>>139687293
Relevant Alexis de Tocqueville quote

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>>139691117
Well gee, it looks like you forgot to read the second line from that wikipedia article you qutoed:
>Despite the Soviet Union's policy against racial hatred it enacted racially motivated laws and actions such as the population transfers

In fact the entire rest of the wiki article supports my argument. 1-800-come-on-now

>>139691125
actually jews are that main race that are causing the change in distribution

kek but yeah, at this rate there will be a second mexican-american war when the mexicans in the US try to secede, because mexican immigrants sure as fuck aren't assimilating into US culture.

>>139691574
This Bantu knows from experience.

>>139691780
which jews are specifically behind lax immigration laws