>Hurricane Harvey Is When We Need Price Gouging, Not Laws

Price gouging its the only thing that controls frivolous hoarding.

>>139367356
There's another, better way. It's called rationing you stupid faggot.

>>139367562
yea people are responsible adults that will always make the best decision

>>139367356
This only happend because you guys are retards.
Why didn't your gouverment do shipments to crisis area already?
This is because you believe that it better that everything is private property.
You have been dropping free anti-tank wepons to terrorist in Syria but you can't give your own people fucking water.

>>139367356
If the argument is that price gouging limits hoarding, you are ignoring the argument that price gouging raises supply faster.
Can't have it both ways.

If you want a non legal method to control this then offer a government operated report on businesses that engaged in price gouging. That way people can make informed votes with their wallets and avoid businesses that gouged people.

Maybe just have a phone program that will notify a user when they enter a store that gouged people as a reminder.

>>139368009
It's sounds like your country doesn't care about you at all. Even moderate-terrorist are in higher priority than your own people.

>>139368069
our (((government))) isn't exactly a government of the people you see

>>139368009
I could definitely be wrong but it sounds like you believe the implication you're trying to make doesn't apply to a free market system, or that a free market system is the solution to the issue of people not always making the best decision, but I am not at all clear on why you think that.

If anything, people's irrationality is made all the more damaging in an unregulated market.

>>139368069
There's plenty of water falling from the sky you fucking retard. This is why Finland lost the winter war.

>>139368287
Harvey sure as fuck gave them shitloads of water, why would their government need to? :^)

>>139368287
yes we are aware

>>139367562
Oh yes, ((((rationing)))) can't be abused at all.

>>139368203
Catastrophes shouldn't be place to make profit.
Goverments job is to take care of its people.
It's better to just help these people to get back into life than rob them whit fucking water prices.

>>139368069
>Why didn't your gouverment do shipments to crisis area already?
Because people could literally up till the time of flooding take any container and fill it from a tap and have enough water to last a family for weeks.
Right now I have a garbage bag of bottles I'm keeping till I have enough to justify returning them. I could fill a month's supply of water in about 30min of work. I can stick about a week's worth of bottles into a backpack, or my full supply into my car.

Why can't people take personal responsibility?

>>139366250
Price gouging is a reflection of the scarcity of the resource.

If you offer sellers a high price, you will draw more sellers into the area and solve the scarcity issue.

The term "price gouge" implies somehow that the people buying it aren't doing so willingly. They're doing it willingly because their need is high.

necessities/utilities should not be gouged or monopolized

the hard part is deciding what is a necessity/utility, but once we decide on what is and isn't, the next step is simple. Don't gouge.

I think it is fair to say clean water is a necessity.

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>>139367562

We really need to purge you retarded chimps.

>>139368554
It's how every civilized people deals with a disaster. You don't price-gouge your countrymen when they're staring death in the face.

>>139368385
Did you know that in flood areas getting CLEAN water is pretty hard and important
. If you don't wanna die to cholera.

>>139368618
Should adjustments or laws be put in place when not only the "need is high" but that need is literally what their survival hinges upon, like say for clean drinking water?

>>139368661
So rationing during a crippling disaster that cuts off your logistics is "retarded"?

>>139368785
No, that doesn't solve the issue. It only makes it worse.

Then you would have the situation where people buy a lot more than they need, and therefore the people who need it more won't get any.


The alternative solution to the free market, is to have the gov't bring in rations of water to give to the people who the government determines to need it.

Laws against price gouging are retarded and counterproductive.

>>139368618
I think this line of reasoning relies on believing either or both of the following things:

>drawing more sellers into the area and reducing scarcity will return pricing to an accessible level
which absolutely does not hold true in a crisis situation

>the consumer is treated as a single entity, and the fact that sales are being made is proof that "the consumer's" needs are being met
which again is completely untrue: when you're talking about buying bottled water in a flood, that's a straight up necessity. If you're able to afford it, no matter the price, you buy it. The fact that a sale is being made simply means "there exist people who have enough money to afford it" but does not mean "there are no people who cannot afford it." This point of view can easily be extended to defend extortion, yet no sane person would argue that extortion should not be a crime.

(((they))) always seem to got it when we need it

>>139368613
Tap wanter can be contaminated in flood areas aswell. Best way to get clean water by yourself is collecting rain.

>>139366250
God is punishing Houston because it harbors a lot of degeneracy.

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>>139369003

Of course it's fucking retarded you mentally ill sack of shit.

Rationing leads to shortages.

Society really needs to get rid of you retarded commies.

>>139368582
>Goverments job is to take care of its people.
Well that's a point people don't agree on. Many people think the government's job is to create conditions to allow people to peacefully live without obligation to care for everyone.

I have no issue with price gouging laws that limit a price raise to maybe double of an old price, or at least rounding off to nearest dollars to avoid the need for change.

I was just saying that if you demanded a non legal solution we could simply blacklist all the businesses that conducted unethical action. That said I still don't get why people didn't have water ready to go.

>>139367562
What are you rationing retard? if theres no resources there then the only way to get them there is to bring them in. You can have the government bring bottles of water there for 100 bucks a pop or you can let an entrepreneur go there and sell them for 5 bucks a pop.

>>139369127
>No, that doesn't solve the issue. It only makes it worse.

the issue is people dying, I'd argue not having laws to ensure people get their water is not making the issue worse, it kind of solves the issue of people dying. The opposite of what you are saying.

In times of crisis specifically, you can either sell it ridiculously cheap or give it away with limits per person. You can't play the free market game in a time of crisis when people could literally die. I don't think if a bomb struck your community right now and you needed water and your local water jew started gouging the price for 500 euros a bottle, you'd just stand there and say "well, free market!"

if you WOULD do that, then you must be prepared to die of thirst at anytime.

>>139369195
>which again is completely untrue: when you're talking about buying bottled water in a flood, that's a straight up necessity. If you're able to afford it, no matter the price, you buy it.

There's a certain amount of water that is a necessity... but i can buy a lot more than i need to survive. Doing so would deny other people the opportunity to buy it.
The high price of the price gougers forces people to ration their resources because nobody wants to spend 100 dollars on tha bottle of water.... even if you're rich.

>>139369195
>>drawing more sellers into the area and reducing scarcity will return pricing to an accessible level

Of course it is. It doesn't happen exactly immediately, but of course anybody would take 97 dollars instead of 99... if there's competition among sellers.
Price gouging can only occur when there's no competition among sellers due to scarcity.

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>>139366250
Maybe people should keep around extra food for an emergency.

>>139369274
what the fuck are you talking about, there is literally affordable water to drink everywhere in America and if you live in some shithole where there is sulfur in your water, buy a filter.

>>139366250
(((worstol)))

>>139368618
We're talking about a disaster here, martial law conditions.

>>139369285
>Tap wanter can be contaminated in flood areas aswell. Best way to get clean water by yourself is collecting rain.
Prior to the flooding the tap water was safe. After the flooding if you didn't suffer any floods and took precautions you could have simply isolated your hot water tank and you have a safe supply of water there.
The average sized hot water tank will supply enough water for drinking for a family of 4 for about a month.

I don't get why people don't have water.

>>139369334
You belong in a death camp you kike piece of shit.

>>139369642
> but i can buy a lot more than i need to survive. Doing so would deny other people the opportunity to buy it.

simple, in times of crisis, limit the water purchase per individual/ration accordingly. Your solution of price gouging is not a good solution, in your solution, only the wealthy can afford to live. In a polar opposite solution where it is dirt cheap and everyone can just take all of the water and some may not get it is a poor solution as well. You know there are balanced solutions right? You can have restrictions on how much water goes to each person yet keep the price affordable.

or y'know, just ration when people are literally about to die

>>139369614
>, I'd argue not having laws to ensure people get their water is not making the issue worse

You apparently didn't understand my argument then. Laws against price gouging ensure that people WILL die of thirst. It does not ensure that people get water.

Selling water for cheap doesn't make sense when you only have a small supply of water because it will be distributed to the people who don't need it. That means those people will die of thirst.

>>139369127

Yes because I'm sure droves of people run to hurricane infested lands to offer their best price on water bottles.

>>139369334

Your comparing rationing for an entire country vs a small area in need of disaster relief

>>139368767
It was a joke and yes you are right, unless you've got a proper water disinfecting and filtering system you need stored water either in water tanks or shitloads of water bottles

>>139369575
A ration for disaster scenarios is a temporary buy limit and a price cap. Wtf is the problem with that in a doomsday scenario?

>>139369711
So the merchants can get through to sell 9 dollar bottles of water but professional relief can't, this makes a whole lot of (((cents)))

>>139369127
We're talking about a life and death situation here, the market cannot operate under such conditions. If my life and my kid's life depended on a bottle of water and i didn't have $100 to buy it i would absolutely kill the person selling it and take it from him. I assume most people would do the same and the situation would dissolve in murder and looting very fast. I'm pretty libertarian myself but this is plain stupid.

>>139369907
Limit how much water per person while keeping the price affordable. Problem solved.

>>139369873
>limit the water purchase per individual/ration accordingly.

According to what? Somebody comes into my shop... can i sell them water? How much do they need? What if they say they have 10 children? Can i sell them 10x as much?

You have a bullshit solution that doesn't work in practice. A water salesman doesn't have the resources to know who needs and doesn't need water. The only way for him to tell is to raise the price.

>>139369127
>Laws against price gouging are retarded and counterproductive.
It was profitable before to ship and sell water. Why with a massively expanded demand would it become unprofitable to ship and sell water?

>>139370136
So selling only to those who can afford it results in less death than limiting on seller's discrection and affordable prices? What are you even saying? You realize in your situation the poor people never even have a CHANCE to get their water, where as at least in a situation where you ATTEMPT to limit how many per person and adjust based on necessity has the chance to save more people.

>>139366250
If I stock up on water to prepare for a crisis, and then decide to make my money back when a limited crisis occurs where other people lack water, you can go fuck yourself if you have a problem, because Im providing water that wouldnt be there, from my personal stock, with my personal time, at my own personal risk of being robbed by feral pavement apes.

Now, if someone goes in and buys all the water out of the store, and then sells it at 5x the price outside - they can go fuck themselves, and they should be robbed.

>>139370109
People will die of thirst in either case. People will be that desperate in either case.

>>139369614
>the issue is people dying
If anyone is so dehydrated that they are at risk of death they can take the risk of infection and slurp up some runoff water.
You might get sick but if the option is death or drink contaminated water, I think that's an easy call to make.

>>139366250
>jewish media defending jewish tactics
no surprise there

>>139369819

I'd pay to watch your commie ass be burned alive.

>>139366250
thats retarded i would just steal it if the price was too high

>>139369555
I think its goverments job to help its people when they are in crisis.
It would just be stupid to not help your fellow countryman.
Other way is to let the jews rob you because no one want to help anyone.

>>139369717
He's a redcoat not a (((jew)))

>>139369921

The results are the same, always.

Society really needs to stop coddling you retarded commies.

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>>139369334

>>139370136
Look at how rations were done during WW2. Every child and adult was allotted a specific amount. It's not fucking rocket science.

literally an ancapball

>>139370310
>People will die of thirst in either case
No they won't. In this case the government steps in and forbids the water merchant to sell a bottle of water above a certain price. Adding to that send in humanitarian aid and noone has to die of fucking thirst

>>139370424
Americans are fucking crypto-commies and they don't even know it.

>>139370109

You're no libertarian. You're a scumbag democrat at heart.

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>>139366250
I unironically agree with them.

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>>139366250

i saw some oklahoma airforce urban search and rescue here in dallas, heading south, while i was getting insecticide at walmart.

it really hit me in the feels when i wished i could do something to help but couldn't.

>>139370632
shut the fuck up retard

>>139370539

>commie
>calling someone a jew

God save us from the useful fucking idiots.

>>139370181
>It was profitable before to ship and sell water. Why with a massively expanded demand would it become unprofitable to ship and sell water?

It was profitable to ship that much water from a particular place.
The problem is, setting up a new shipment to that area requires a lot of logistics that you're not taking into account.
You're pretending there's a shipping truck full of water somewhere who can just as easily change course.
The people doing the shipping often aren't the same people doing the selling.

Of course in the LONGTERM it would be profitable to set up a shop there assuming there were increased demand.
But the high price encourages water to go there RIGHT NOW when it's needed. It means disrupting the normal schedule and setting up new distribution lines. It's not as simple as you're pretending.

>>139370545
B-BUT WHAT IF SOMEONE IS DISHONEST OR THEY GET BACK IN LINE I CAN'T KEEP TRACK OF ALL THAT!!!! FREE MARKET SUPPLY AND DEMAND HURR

>>139370424
The last time my town had a disaster I was on the streets supplying my countrymen with free rations and pushing trees and debris out of the streets for free. If you can't serve your country freely in a time of dire need you don't belong in a civilized society.

>>139369907
>it will be distributed to the people who don't need it

No proof that is correct, or that only people that need water have enough money to buy it at an inflated price.

>That means those people will die of thirst.
No one is going to die of thirst with so much rain coming down. At worst people will be thirsty until they drink rain water. Hang a shirt out in the rain. Let it get wet. Squeeze the water from the shirt into your mouth. Problem over.

>>139370598

>forbids the water merchant to sell a bottle of water above a certain price
>no one sells water

You people are criminally retarded.

>>139370769

You literally said you'd steal other people's property and murder them.

You are subhuman scum.

>>139370598
The humanitarian aid is the only part of the solution that makes sense. And would be complete without the laws against price gouging.

The law against price gouging just makes it worse.

>>139370869
Why would nobody sell water you dumb fucking burger. I didn't say forbid him to make profit

The solution is to allow stupid people to die. Not my responsibility. Everyone knew a hurricane was coming.

>>139370351
Wouldn't you like to believe we live in a bit more of a civilized society than to let people resort to that? Is it really so hard to suspend ultra-hardcore free market autism during a time of crisis and just fucking help people out so they don't die/get lead filled water in their guts? I'm not even saying to give it out for free, maybe charge something, have them required to volunteer to help clean up or distribute supplies in exchange for water, just don't go fucking ultra-jew and price gouge water when people are suffering.Fuck what happened to the christian ideals you people harp on about

>>139370869
IT'S A DISASTER YOU FUCKING JEW. A FEW DAYS OF BEING CHARITABLE AND SERVING THE GREATER GOOD

>>139370841

>It's another commie retard doesn't understand the difference between voluntary donations and government regulation episode.

Society would be best served if you were sterilized. People this stupid shouldn't be allowed to breed.

>>139369642
you make two good points but they both work against each other, and neither takes into account a crisis situation.

I'm pretty well off, and you're right: if I saw a $100 gallon of water at my grocer, I'd give it a hard pass. If, however, my home was under 4 feet of water and my girlfriend and I had just been transported a town over, were sleeping in tents, and spent three hours fighting our way through a crowd to gain access to a market where, once there, I find out a gallon of water is $100, I'd think twice. Probably even thrice.

Hell, I might actually fucking buy it, because I need it to live. If I were unscrupulous, I might actually buy them all, and sell them at $200 because hey, why not, I have the means and the opportunity, and I know I'm guaranteed a return because everybody fucking needs this to live. I think this is pretty objectively a thing that any system should protect itself against, and I think that because I believe at the absolute minimum we should be trying to protect those in our community from exterior factors deciding whether or not they live or die.

It's the motivation behind my support of public services such as fire brigades, emergency services, everything.

>>139371033

Of course you forbade him from profiting you retarded nigger.

>>139370769
Americans are the scum of earth. They have no compassion to fellow countrymen. Kike plans worked perfectly.
Here in Finland we would help all our neighbour if something happened.
Here in Finland we call that ''Talkoohenki'' when people are doing work to help the community.

Is price gouging really that much of an issue? I can see corner shops run by some Indian cunt doing it but does it happen in large retailers and wholesalers too? Do walmart or costco change their prices in the aftermath of a disaster? If not, it's a non-issue desu.

>>139371243
how

>>139371127

>from each according to his ability to each according to his needs

Yea, I'm the jew here.

>>139370843
>No proof that is correct
There's no proof of anything in this thread.

>, or that only people that need water have enough money to buy it at an inflated price.
The point is that all the people who buy water in this situation are people who need it.
The point is not that all the people who need water are people who buy it.

Understand the difference.

>>139371068
What about people who don't have the money to simply drive away and stay somewhere else for months? Are they worthless for not having the money to do that? If everyone low-middle class and under is worthless, then you wouldn't care if they all perished? Who would work the manual labor jobs? The food service jobs? Who would do anything?

>>139366250
This is one of the most Jewish things I've read

>>139371281
it's not because it's regulated against
they don't because it's regulated against
the whole argument is whether or not it should be regulated against
if it wasn't, it would be an issue.

>>139371304

You limited his ability to sell his property at the price he and the purchaser agreed was fair.

How fucking retarded are you?

>>139371378
the real redpill is that the free market is the biggest kike scheme ever conceived.

>>139370869
Americans: We should not disrupt supply and demand in catastrophes because its natural But every terrorist organization needs some anti-tank missiles for free!

>>139367562
>communist uses NATSOC flag to get board cred

>>139371481
not him but you do realize that just because a price may be unfair to the merchant doesn't mean he won't make a profit. You know profit margins typically have lots of wiggle room right?

>>139371277
What are you talking about you mongoloid fuck? The Cajun Navy is all the god-fearing mainline Republican gun owners of the gulf states. They're all over the area in small fishing boats bringing supplies and providing evacuations.

>>139366250
I just love how the entire media is trying their damnedest to make this disaster an indictment on Trump and capitalism. I didn't hear ANY of this bullshit during any of the disasters that happened during Obama's term. I'm sure some asshole was selling bottled water for 99 dollars during hurricane Sandy too. Really makes me think!

>>139371529
Fucking this, lolbertarians are the biggest goys of all, only thing worse are the literal commies in terms of goyness

>>139371712
you are saying the opposite of what was written in the article

>>139371564

Thanks for doubling down on the retardation.

>>139370823
>It was profitable to ship that much water from a particular place.
>The problem is, setting up a new shipment to that area requires a lot of logistics that you're not taking into account.
>You're pretending there's a shipping truck full of water somewhere who can just as easily change course.
>The people doing the shipping often aren't the same people doing the selling.

You have a safe zone where people are. That area is connected to the transport system. If a store in that zone sees that it has thousands of potential customers it makes an order for a large amount of water and food. A few hours later a truck arrives with the supplies.

This isn't supplying a snacks to someone on the moon. It's an 2hr drive from one massive multi million person city to some small town store.

You are vastly overstating the complications to justify price gouging.

~

You are a private truck owner and because of flooding your normal trip to Huston is canceled. So you talk to some business contacts and reach a deal with a supplier to take a shipment of water to a disaster zone. You reach a deal to pay the supplier after you sell. They are taking a risk on you but you offered your service as a drive as collateral. You drive down to some small town and pull up to where the people are and offer to the local government to sell water at a reasonable price from the back of your truck. You offer to sell to the government if they are interested.

No need for $100 a liter water. You sell at a normal convenience store price.

>>139371481
You clearly don't know what profit is. I can't believe there are people this retarded voicing their opinion in public.
If under normal circumstances the seller makes profit from a $1 bottle of water, he will also make a profit if the government puts a price cap of, say, $2 in times of extreme distress. He just won't make 10000000000% profit. How is this hard to understand?

>>139371311
Reminder that capitalism is literally just Jewish eschatology.

>>139371608

>the government should be able to force people to sell things at unfair prices

You are literally a cancer on western civilization.

>>139371529
>>139371727

Every trumptard, without fail, is a barely closeted communist.

It's almost comical.

>>139370300
>if I buy water and sell it at 5x the price its ok
>if someone else buys water and sell it at 5x the price its not ok
How did you get to be so retarded? Did your mother use drugs while you were in her womb or were you dropped on your head as a child?

>>139371080
I'm saying that no one is going to die from dehydration with so much water around. If it's raining you can likely drink the roof runoff without any real risk, or capture it with a shirt or blanket.
If it came down to having something to drink or dying I think people could find water.

Also who is 'you people'? What Christian ideal have I ever harped about ever?

>>139371185
>If I were unscrupulous, I might actually buy them all, and sell them at $200 because hey, why not, I have the means and the opportunity, and I know I'm guaranteed a return because everybody fucking needs this to live.

You could try that, but, imo, that would be an extremely risky gamble. I think you're almost certain to lose such a bet.

By the time the prices are 100$ a bottle, bottles of water are rushing towards the area to be sold at a huge profit. You might sell a few, at such a price, but (especially in america) more water is pouring in from nearby fast enough that unless you have infinite wealth, you're not going to be able to buy enough water to capitalize on the monopoly you've created in the crisis.

>>139369782

You get why. People are dumb as hell.

The difference now is that we don't have everyone watching the local news on television/radio when shit hits the fan. They're all selecting custom news sources and do not get the messages telling them how to prepare. People need those messages reminding them to not touch down power lines or fill your bathtub with water so you have a supply.

>>139366250
At least it's properly labeled as an opinion article, instead of how leftist media normally just posts their opinions as fact...

>>139367562
At least the retarded socialist is honest

>>139371315
>The point is that all the people who buy water in this situation are people who need it.
No. A wealthy person would say, that's expensive but I have lots of money and I might need it later so I'm buying it now in case their is no more later when I might need it.
>The point is not that all the people who need water are people who buy it.
Sure. But raising the price to ensure that some people that need it can't buy it isn't an acceptable solution.

>Understand the difference.
Right back at you.

>>139371896

And then there will be no water on the shelves because people who don't need it will buy it at the government mandated price.

This is literally what has happened every single time the government has mandated prices in recorded history and yet you are still too fucking retarded to learn from it.

Society really needs to start culling stupid people.

>>139370109

Anyone willing to kill and steal will not be in this situation.

There most certainly are people who will be unable to afford it, walk out with their head low and pray for the best.

Fortunately we have guns for people like you, should you actually be both unprepared and an asshole.

>>139370830

This literally happened.

People were more honorable back then and we had enough to where nobody starved.

Today? In a domestic crisis? You bet your ass they're going to scam for as much as they can.

>>139371861
>and offer to the local government to sell water at a reasonable price from the back of your truck.

Your solution amounts to government aid. A solution which I already agreed would be good.

Yes: the government should commission trucks of water to be brought in.
I think expecting a trucker to have the knowledge and information necessary to coordinate its own delivery is expecting too much from the average trucker. But i'm not disagreeing with the idea that people should be smarter.

if the water was actually trucked in from somewhere else, it would make sense.

what if someone goes around buying up all the water from supermarkets before the hurricane and tries to resell them? i don't see how that's beneficial

>>139372501
>No. A wealthy person would say, that's expensive but I have lots of money and I might need it later so I'm buying it now in case their is no more later when I might need it.
He'll buy SOME extra, but as little as he can get away with.... Because later there will be more water.

Everyone with an IQ above 80 understands that the water scarcity is temporary.

>>139372501
>Sure. But raising the price to ensure that some people that need it can't buy it isn't an acceptable solution.

This happens in either case.

>>139372820
>Your solution amounts to government aid. A solution which I already agreed would be good.
No, I said you offer to sell to the government who might be interested. But you are still conducting personal business directly.

>I think expecting a trucker to have the knowledge and information necessary to coordinate its own delivery is expecting too much from the average trucker.
You need to learn how to read. I said a private trucker. They own their truck and hire out their own services. They are not employees of a trucking company but are self employed. Their business is having the knowledge and information to coordinate their own delivers.

You are either mentally retarded or a troll.

>>139372826
>buying up all the water from supermarkets before the hurricane

This will cause the shops to hurry up and restock the water faster.... It will literally save water from being scarce when a hurricane hits.

>>139366250
The word we use for these kind of people is Gombeen Man.
Basically a person who fits whatever derogatory Jewish stereotype you can imagine, just not necessarily actually Jewish.
It's pretty scummy to take advantage of people during a crisis like this, but for every business who gouges their prices, there's probably another who doesn't or does the opposite.

>>139373388
>This will cause the shops to hurry up and restock the water faster.... It will literally save water from being scarce when a hurricane hits.
I change my assessment you are actually as stupid I suspected and not a troll.

>>139372608
Bro someone could buy it even at $100/bottle. This just forbids the poor from buying it.

>>139372635
What if i have a gun too? Are you willing to risk you life to make a profit? I'm willing to risk mine to survive.
My whole point is that in life and death situations a lot of people won't just sit and say "ah ok, the market doesn't want my children to live so i'll just give up". The point is that the place would spiral into chaos very fast

>>139373347
Selling to the government is the same as the government buying it.

Again, I already agreed that it was good for that to happen.

>>139366250
Price gouging works. What other reason would someone have to buy a truckload of generators and drive them hundreds of miles or more to a fucked-up, potentially lawless area that needs them? It's this or wait for Uncle Sugar to save you from your own unprepared self.

>>139373519

The poor can't buy it if there isn't any available you fucking retard.

>>139373518
My assessment of you, however, remains unchanged.

Banning price-gouging is highly anti-semitic

>>139373740
Why not just give people water if they are thirsty?
You can just not sell someone whos trying to buy over their needs.

>>139373740
so if the price is 100 and a rich jew buys it all there will be some available?

>>139366250

price gouging is necessary. Even St. Thomas Aquinas acknowledged it as morally acceptable.

It's better to have water than to not have water. Even if the water is 'overpriced'. Personally I rather not die.

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>>139366250
Tim (((Worstall)))

>>139374390
>so if the price is 100 and a rich jew buys it all there will be some available?

If a jew buys it all it will be $1000 per bottle.

How many people do you think would go there with a truck full of water bottles if they were told they could sell them for $1000 a bottle?

Every drop of water in a 2 state radius would be on its way to that city.

>>139371311
What part of "temporary rations during disaster conditions" do you not understand? This isn't a political philosophy, it's how you deal with an acute, market-disrupting crisis

>>139372300
again, I think you're right here: it would be a big gamble for me, but the important thing to note is that it's a gamble so long as people have alternatives. My behaviour in that scenario isn't an issue... so long as people have alternatives.

the issue comes right back when we realise that I'm being incentivised to eliminate people's alternatives here. With a handful of other "partners" and some startup capital, I can just be the emergency water middle-man. We buy it up, and sell it back to the consumer at a higher price. There's no value being created here, no service being rendered, but it's unquestionably a viable business model: all it takes is a little organisation.

And I'm certainly not the only person in this scenario who will behave this way. Suddenly you have Kaleb's Emergency Water, Devin's Water Emporium, Charles & Sons Crisis Water. We're all in the same business. Maybe it makes sense for me to organise a merger with one to extend my territory and thus allow me to raise the price, since the consumers have limited mobility.

I could go national. Where there's a crisis, I'll be there to give you water! After buying out the available water, of course, but so long as there are people willing to pay that's not my concern.

This exact scenario plays out consistently in anything resembling a free market. To me, it's very plainly an issue and something that I don't want to be a normal part of business. Combating it takes diligent application of strong regulation, and that's something I want to see more of not less of.

>>139368767
A tarp leading to a container will collect rain water.

>>139372127
>not wanting unrestricted kike-enabling markets
>automatically means I want bread-lines
awesome

>>139374165

So you gave away all of your water and now there is no water available.

Jesus Christ you are one dumb fucking nigger.

>>139374390

Why would a rich jew buy water he doesn't need for $100?

Holy fuck greeks are retarded.

>>139374722

>deal with market disruption by disrupting market further

You'd starve to death without welfare, wouldn't you?

>>139367356
>t. scalper

>>139374722

Pls show bow goverment rationing in times of crisis is somehow more efficient than market rationing. If central planning is inefficient in time of plenty and stabilitly what makes you think it will magically work better in times of crisis?

>>139372444
>your house goes under ten feet of water
>your supplies are ruined and your hot water heater is under a raging river
>"hurr durr stupid goy why didn't you prepare for this"!

>>139374827

You advocate policies that lead to bread-lines. Any rational person must therefore assume that you want bread-lines.

>>139374669
Since we're making assumptions what if the water suppliers form a cartel and decide that no one sells under a certain price? Let's say $150 a bottle. Is that ok or does the government step in then?

>>139374903
to sell it $150 you fucking dense motherfucker. Just stop posting already

>>139375196
>implying people wouldnt volunteer to help without goverment interventions

google cajun navy

>>139375289

Then why wouldn't he buy it for your mandated $1 and sell it anyway for $150?

You really have no business calling anyone dense you retarded fucking commie. Every post you've made in this thread reeks of absolute stupidity.

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>>139366250
Yes, the thing people that lost everything need is higher prices

>>139371529
>>139371277
>>139373481
>>139373519
>>139374801
>being commie jews
>not understanding the social value of price gouging

https://youtu.be/R6ojYtKazgQ

If you don't communicate to people "you better prepare or get out of town" and "if you didn't prepare certain services will be much more difficult to provide" through prices and PS anniuncements, you're incentivizing people to be economically inefficient and waste resources.

Also without price gouging things like backup generators don't go where they're most needed, instead they go to whoever buys them first.

>>139375480
HE CAN BUY IT FOR $1. HE CAN ALSO BUY IT FOR $150. IM ILLUSTRATING THAT PRICE GOUGING DOES NOT STOP HOARDING

SHUT
THE
FUCK
UP

>>139375289
I'm not an ancap. I have said many times that government intervention is good.

Anti-trust laws, laws against monopolies--- These are good things.

My position is only that laws against price gouging are bad and counterproductive.

>>139374801
See above. I mostly agree with you that this is a strong argument against the idea of pure capitalism. But we already have laws against monopolies which is what your imaginary captialist is trying to create.

I would even agree that attempting such a malicious monopoly maybe should be a criminal charge.... i don't know.

But price gouging is good in the case that there is the potential for competition in the area.... because it draws more supply.

>>139375245
Bread lines are a necessary thing when a hurricane comes along and destroys 90% of the food.
>>139375193
In disasters there's nothing wrong with drafting merchants to sell their staples with ration rules, just like there's nothing wrong with drafting a standing army when your country is being invaded. It's a temporary and necessary response to a drastic situation.

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is Steve /ourguy/?

>>139375656
lmao this is what an angry Turkr**ch looks like when confronted with basic economics

>>139366250
It's not price "gouging", the higher price is accurately representing the new demand

>>139375628
>Also without price gouging things like backup generators don't go where they're most needed, instead they go to whoever buys them first.
this is an argument I see a lot of people make but I don't really understand the logical leap being made.

The belief that
>high price ensures a commodity goes where it's needed as opposed to whoever buys it first
seems completely unsupported to me.
it's always just going to be "whoever buys it first"
having a lot of money is not indicative of need, and I have a lot of trouble seeing how you'd argue that the two are interchangeable

>>139376483
and new supply

>>139376237

>Bread lines are a necessary thing

Commie logic at its finest.

We really need to cull you chimps.

>>139375628
People in survival mode don't waste drinking water. Christ, do you libertarians look at everything though the lens of economics? Where the fuck is your civic pride? What about honor, duty, and patriotism? What about standing up for your people in their hour of need?

>>139376622
>strawmanning this hard
I suppose you'd prefer famine?

>>139376707

We are standing up for people in their hour of need by providing goods and services that they require.

I love how you worthless commies try to mask your thieving ways behind honor, duty, and patriotism. Absolutely revolting.

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>>139376782

Not at all. Your policies lead to famine. Our policies lead to plenty.

It's a shame you're too retarded to understand this. It's a bigger shame that society hasn't gotten rid of you.

>>139376043
>My position is only that laws against price gouging are bad and counterproductive.

All i advocated in this thread is the government putting a price cap in inelastic goods in times of EXTREME DISTRESS such as this one. Combine it with government aid and nobody has the incentive to hoard water and sell it at a 1000000% markup. Maybe someone sells it a little bit more expensive since he will providing the service of not having to stand up in the line to get your ration, but that's ok. But no one will sell a bottle of water $100.

>>139377259
This isn't even a "communism vs capitalism" debate. It's the state stepping in to prevent total social chaos in the face of natural disaster.

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Reminder that profit is god. Profit means you took raw materials and arranged them in such a way that society is willing to give you more for it than for the raw materials.
Profit means you created value for humanity.
Without profit nothing would exist.

>>139376567
>interchangeable
no, but under two conditions:
People generally know the value of money, and higher prices incentivize more supply. The first condition dampens the effect of the disaster over-consumption by consumers, and ensures that people are only consuming the limited resources that they need--a backup generator might not be worth 3x its original price to a normal family during a hurricane, but it certainly would be to a family that needs to keep their insulin fresh.

The second condition is almost self-evident through experience and enourages people from outside the disaster zone to bring resources where they're needed, whereas fuck all anybody is going to come where there are price gouging laws, unless they're paid by charity money, which is much less available than the former population.

Anyway for all you BELIEVING or NOT believing is worth, the fact is that price gouged-disasters tend to be much more slowly and inefficiently addressed than ones where the free market is allowed to distribute G&S, as is evidenced from the replete records of people doing what that man in the Stossel video was doing.

>>139376935
>>139377135
I repeat, what part of "temporary rationing during a time of disaster" do you not understand? I'm not advocating Marxism, I'm advocating a martial response and common-sense rationing to a situation that calls for it. Something that every civilized country in history has done when faced with this type of situation. I suppose you think the draft is socialist too right?

>>139377616
>the fact is that price gouged-disasters tend to be much more slowly and inefficiently addressed
on this we definitely agree

>>139377609
>Profit means you took raw materials and arranged them in such a way that society is willing to give you more for it than for the raw materials.
>Profit means you created value for humanity.
neither of these things are necessary for profit

>>139377609
I can make a huge profit pimping whores and selling crack. You people are mentally ill

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>>139376707
>People in survival mode don't waste drinking water.
It's well recorded that people over-spend (if given the opportunity) in survival situations. If drinking water is still at the pre-disaster price, what's to stop me from buying way more than I need?

>their hour of need
yeah, I'm advocating what I think is the most efficient solution to that, r-tard.

>>139366250
price gouging is an incentive to act, either to supply a service or product. Usually high prices only last for a short time, then go down.

>>139377774
When there is a huge demand for whores then there is something wrong with your society not with the businessman filling the need for whores.

This is why I was leftist. I still am, in such a context.
Fuck John Stossel and his stupid mustache.

>>139377499
The ancaps really are autistic. This thread is proof

>>139377754
>neither of these things are necessary for profit
yeah, they are. Subjective value. You might not think so, but a heroin addict would think a g of slam is worth more than $60

>>139377964
There were tons of whores in the western frontier that libertarians worship. You guys are degenerates

>>139377952
Usually true. The issue I see with this is that "a short time" is all too easily going to last the duration of "a crisis scenario" which is when it will cause the biggest problems for survivors

>>139377927
>what's to stop me from buying more than I need
The government drafting merchants into a temporary ration market

>I'm advocating the most efficient solution to that
No you aren't, you're advocating price-gouging your disaster-stricken countrymen

>>139377981
lel

muh feelings muh price gouging is ebul muh fair price :^(

Don't you care about the children anon? The children won't have nearly as good access to drinking water if there are no incentives for people to sell them drinking water

>>139378166
when you frame it like that I see what you're talking about, but I think the source of my disagreement with you, then, comes from my unwillingness to equate "value for humanity" with "value for a human"

>>139378173
There was a serious shortage of women. And the government made it very hard to import and sell them. That's were the problem was.

>>139378388
>>139377259
Yes. Free price setting is necessary to allow the right amount of production (can't force people to produce below costs).
But I don't see anybody producing during a hurricane. Elastic prices won't help here. What helps is the government delivering a truck load of SUPPLY to match the DEMAND, because local supply was destroyed and does not exist anymore.

>>139377679

You are literally advocating marxism.

Thousands of years of recorded history should tell you that your ideas are retarded and counter productive, unfortunately you're a halfwit and advocate them anyway.

Of course the draft is socialist. It's also immoral and pointless but God forbid anything that might make you stop sucking the state's cock.

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>>139378500

>>139378381
>government draft
never gonna happen on a large enough scale in the US. Even if it did it would be slow because of court processing and resistance from merchants.

>I'm advocating the most efficient solution to that
>No you aren't, you're advocating price-gouging your disaster-stricken countrymen
Again, they are one and the same in my book.

>>139378440
well consider the fact that those whose values are most correct/productive will become the more productive class, and heroin addicts and others will die out more quickly, without welfare or exogenous jewish plots

Obviously the hand isn't always right which is why libertarianism advocates for a state that regulates things in the first place

>>139376237

you completely ignored my criticism just to restate your case.

Once again If central planing is always more inefficent in times of plenty and stability why would it be better in times of chaos? If it cant work in the best situations wht would it work in the worst of sitiuations?

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>>139366250

>Is the solution to national crises as simple as a truly free market?

Is the concept of consumer choice really that difficult to grasp?

You can screw everyone during a hurricane for short term gains; but you'll become a pariah in the community and your store will go out of business. In theory you could screw everyone for some short term shekels then leave town; but closing shop and moving elsewhere costs shekels too.

You could import goods that people need to a disaster area and cheat them for as much as possible; but even then if they're willing to pay you then clearly not having the goods at all would still be the worse option. Also if anyone found out about it you'd get nailed by bad publicity.

>>139378649
Marxism and temporary martial law during a disaster are two totally different things. I suppose you think that literally every country in WW2 was "Marxist" for rationing staples in a time of war? This is a hurricane we're talking about, two weeks of rations at the most. Things can go to back normal when the situation returns to normal

So far in this thread you've shown that you're a kike who will gouge your countrymen in their hour of need, as well as a coward who would ignore the draft if our country was invaded.

>>139366250
Price gouging is the least bad way to ration the supply.

Same argument for healthcare. The best way to determine how much something is worth is to let the market decide. When the government can arbitrarily decide what something costs, it throws everything out of whack. Same with minimum wage, come to think of it.

>>139379461

In this thread you've shown that you're an economically illiterate retard who supports inefficient government policies because it makes you feel good and patriotic.

You are the worst kind of commie.

>>139366250
Supply and demand.

Those who are for the free market shutting down The Daily Stormer are now frazzled by gouging. They typically support Net Neutrality as well.

>>139375245
restricting policies that get people killed does not lead to bread-lines. It only appears that way if you're brain operates only on extremes.

>>139378740
>court processing
Martial law declaration solves that problem. Get out there and help your countrymen in the hour of disaster or you can get shot in the head.

>>139379222
>why would it work better in times of chaos
Because times of chaos is precisely what the military and martial law is meant for. You really think the free market can meet the needs of the people in a total breakdown of logistics and civilian law enforcement?

>>139379222
it's not whether it will work or not in the worst situation, it's the fact that we have to attempt it in the worst situation because immediate loss of life is on the line.

Isn't loss of life why you are against abortion?

>"don't kill that baby, it's a life!"
>"fuck people, who cares if they suffer, supply and demand goy!" *rubs hands together jewishly*

>>139366250
Remember when people would laugh at preppers?

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>>139366250

He's sort of right. As prices go sky high in a disaster area, companies will move heaven and Earth to get their stuff to that area in order to realize the huge profits. The area then gets inundated with supplies, and the prices begin to fall as supply catches up with demand. Shit's expensive, but you can have it.

When you freeze prices, you end up with a market that is no more profitable to sell in than any other market, but a whole hell of a lot more trouble, risk, and expense to try to get into, so hardly anything shows up, and you have massive shortages. It doesn't help if a bottle of water is still 50 cents if there aren't any bottles of water within 30 miles of you.

This is one situation where (temporary) government subsidies of consumer products makes sense. It gets necessary supplies quickly to people who need it at a reasonable out-of-pocket cost to the disaster victims, supports business, and it's money that the government was going to spend in the area anyway.

>>139380116
>Martial law declaration solves that problem. Get out there and help your countrymen in the hour of disaster or you can get shot in the head.
No, that's a waste of resoures. Merchants and charity can do the disaster response cheaper.

Besides that would probably end up like Katrina where the military confiscated guns and caused even more looting

>>139380214
>it's not whether it will work or not
>the fact that there are lives on the line means that even something that doesn't work is better than something that does
right

>>139379965

Price gouging doesn't kill anyone you retarded fucking chimp.

Price controls have lead to shortages literally every single time they have been attempted in human history.

Christ on a crutch you chimps are fucking retarded.

>>139379965
>restricting policies that get people killed does not lead to bread-lines

You still don't seem to understand that the reason it's 100$ per bottle is because there isn't enough water for everybody.
The shortage is what gets killed, and selling it cheaply only makes it certain that people who don't need it will get it.

>>139380820
gets people killed*

>>139380214

>it's not whether it will work or not

This retarded chimp probably votes.

>>139380214
We're all suffering to one degree or another. I have seen neighbors helping neighbors this weekend, and if my neighbor came to me asking for water, I would share it with him, even if I paid $42 for it.

You commies think it's the government, and government only that's allowed to help people. Without the government no one would ever receive what they needed. What a load of crap.

>>139380712
Natsoc Germany had price controls on staples and interest rates and they had the highest standard of living in the world in the 1930s.

>>139371127
THINK OF DA CHILLUNS

>>139381228

>he actually believes this

>>139371529

free market is for shitty countries. no powerful nation would allow itself to have a free market.

>>139382059

You have to go back, Paco.

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>>139380116
I lived through Katrina in New Orleans. Ive seen how well martial law works. The cops were as dangerous as the looters. The goverment officials only made things worse.

>>139380214

>Im right because of feels

Come on. Where did I say I dont want to help people? I already stated that government rationing is inefficent. The market and idividual charity will help more people becaise its more efficient both in times of stability and crisis.

pic related.

>>139381912
You're the same type of kike who would let a loaf of bread hit a million Deutschmarks. The Germans knew how to deal with you.
>>139381593
It's disaster rationing, not gibs for lazy faggots. Show me one fucking country in history that has never had a ration in a time of crisis.

>>139382813

By starting and then losing two world wars?

There is nothing more pathetic than someone who idolizes the nazis.

>>139370087
What are you rationing?
There aren't resources in the area, as people buy them out before the Hurricane hits

>>139368582
How many people would bring resources with a profit motive, vs the goodness of their heart?
How many trucks are leaving at 6am full of bottles of Water because someone thinks they can make a buck vs because they want to help people?

>>139382757
Bush was a weak leader who botched the response. Martial law durinf disasters has worked very well in the past. Would you prefer the military sit around and do nothing? Oh wait, you were probably one of the kikes selling water for fifty bucks a bottle huh?

>>139369718
Why should the free market be suspended during a disaster?

>>139383478

He's a socialist. He hates the idea of a free market.

>>139368660
Declaring something a necessity doesn't poof it into existence
.
That's the Bernie Sanders school of thought.

>>139382813
>>139382813
Show me one fucking country in history that has ever had efficient rationing in times of crisis.
protip : you can't
>>139383376
Muh stronk leader can muh emperah hitlar could do eet

>>139369003
Rationing through prices, ye.

>>139367562
I ate all my rations and there's none left. What now?

>>139383128
That's why if the government were smart they'd start the ration when they know the disaster is going to hit. In this case, since the government fucked up, the ration needs to be a merchant draft. If you were heading down there planning to price gouge your countrymen you get to join the relief effort at gunpoint.

>>139383719
>receive more gibs
>deplete gibs
>repeat

>>139370841
proof?
Why aren't you on the streets of Houston right now?

>>139370122
There's going to be a lower supply, as there's less of an incentive to bring those supplies into the area.
If the price is "affordable", people will buy the limit, "just to be safe". If you're selling 5$ bottles of water, people won't buy out the truck, they'll buy as many as they think they need.
The free market solution brings more resources into the area, and lowers the demand for the products

>>139370282
>So selling only to those who can afford it results in less death than limiting on seller's discrection and affordable prices?
Yes, it does.

>>139383478
The free market can't even exist during a disaster like this, only the black market can. The black market isn't free at all, you have no clue what you're really buying and no proof of purchase to punish the merchant legally if he sells you a tainted product.

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>>139371896
And so people who don't need it will buy it "just to be safe"
You end up with massive lines, and people taking more than they need.
If the prices are not artificially lowered, there's a chance for people to buy things without spending their entire time in line, instead of at home with their family during a crisis

>>139383376

Do your knees hurt? Must be painful comstantly groveling for superman to save you. If you want to help people you do it yourself. Begging for a "strong leader" to make the world better while your sitting on your ass is a pretty pathetic way to go through life.

>>139376707
>People in survival mode don't waste drinking water.
Really? How many people have extra bottles of water after a disaster?
That's wasted water.

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>>139384045
Travel there is restricted you doofus. Plus what he said holds true especially in Texas. We have been through these before. And we always look after each other in these times. Politics and all other shit be damned.

>>139367562

Price gouging is rationing you dick.

Furthermore it incentivises commerce due to rising prices.

>>139384687
You're saying we can't have a free market during a disaster, and we should make selling for higher prices illegal. And the reason is because it's a black market, AKA an illegal market?
You're arguing in circles.
You're saying that it should be illegal, because it's illegal

>>139385367
Why is travel their restricted?
Why wouldn't they want people coming in bringing supplies and help?

>>139366250
enjoy severe looting.

>>139385899
The question was "why should the free market be suspended". I'm not advocating "suspending" it, I'm pointing out the fact that the market breaks down and can't even come close to meeting demand when there's a collapse of logistics and law and order.
>>139385058
You prefer weak leaders that allow crime and kikery to run rampant? >>139385468
>price gouging is rationing
No it's not, a ration has a hard cap on how much of a product you're allowed to buy.

>>139379042
you've done good work in this thread