So my cuck flatmate thinks ripping down the confederate statues

>>138873369
#FuckWhitePeope #SlaveEnthusiast

You're arguing the wrong fucking issue, you twonk.

Even if they represent heroism to a small group, the main focus is that the statues are a historical memorial and reminder to the history of the US. They're a tangible snapshot of history and the implications of history that the viewer themselves can reflect on and draw conclusions on independently.

>>138873611
I need a legit counter argument or else I'll agree with him.

>>138873748
But they remind the blacks that they're not equal

>>138873369
He's not right.
It's history.
You don't erase it because muh feelings.
Even worse, it's actually a reminder to not do the same shit again.
Why idiot fail to see that, I don'... is because they're idiots.

>>138873840

No they don't. Blacks imagine that the statues are there to remind them they aren't equal. It's an internal inferiority complex. You sound like a libcuck. They exist to remind people that a certain event happened and/or a person existed. Unless there's placquards on their celebrating the racism and awesomeness of slavery, then they're just artistic historical markers.

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Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.

>>138873756
Your legit counter-argument is that black people consider ALL white people to be slave-enthusiasts. The best way to prevent that kind of problem is with mass sterilisation of slaves, like how greece used to do.

>>138873756
>I cannot think for myself and must be dictated my beliefs by someone
Fucking hell do something on your own.
Believe him or don't, but don't wait on your imaginary friend or an internet stranger to tell you how to manage yourself.
Think, weight the pros and cons, think some more, come to a conclusion

>>138873748
If you must be brain dead then this is a good argument.

>>138874064
I understand your point, basically it's the "your feelings aren't facts" approach. I'm not a libcuck I'm trying to be subjective in the matter. I fucked him up when he tried to say the gender wage gap isn't a myth to the point he was literally speechless and visibly upset

>>138873369
Your roommate must be an only child. We honor our families here, even if we don't agree with them. Civil wars are brother wars.

all monuments to wh*Te subhumans must be destroyed

>>138873369
They have to remove the old Civil War monuments to make room for statues of the Civil War 2 heroes.

>>138873369
You already cucked out by accepting the moral premise of his argument. Why are the feelings of blacks more important than the history, pride, and feelings of whites?

The US civil war was about state rights, not slavery

race doesn't matter when it comes to the statues, they shouldn't exist because making heroes out of the losing side of a war is retarded, especially a civil war

part of solidifying victory is destroying that kind of shit, allowing it to stay for as long as it has was stupid to begin with

>>138873369
No, being a minority group usually means you're fucked up in the head somehow.

The minorities are gay
the minorities are trans
the minorities are the ones removing statues

the majority, unfortunately are complicit in all of these, and while they morally know it's wrong to do or be any of the above, are guilty of being stupid fucks.

>>138875944
It's to symbolize that civil wars are a bad idea, by remembering the fallen from from both sides and celebrating them giving up their lives for what they believed in.

>>138873369
I guess slavery didn't exist because all the slave masters are gone

>>138873369
He's not right.
They will find something else to bitch about, always. You give an inch they take a mile.

>>138876022

being gay is perfectly normal, being trans in a neurological issue, and removing statues that shouldn't have even been around this long in the first place is no big deal

on a personal level i think lincoln was wrong when it came to the civil war, exercising large government's brute force over state rights, but that doesn't matter

the proper way to deal with the losing side is to eradicate them, not keep statues up so that people can cling to their ideals and make heroes out of them

slavery and race are generally too tied into the civil war by people because lincoln himself was racist and didn't do what he did for the slaves to begin with so the white/black shit is stupid

>>138873369
>capitulating to negroid ignorance

>>138873369
>blacks will always see it as us celebrating the lives of slave enthusiasts.
This is absolutely correct, but why should we cater to them?

>>138873840
They won't be equal regardless of whether the statues are there or not.

>>138873369
Tell him he's a faggot and force him to drink draino

>>138873840
A higher percentage of free blacks owned black slaves than free whites. The very first slave owner in the colonies was an Angolan immigrant. Chattel slavery is quite literally black culture, and there was never a sub-saharan empire that didnt subsist off enslaving others.

I think they're just pissed that we appropriated their culture, then denied them off it by ending slavery worldwide.

>>138876219

except a museum would be better for that

everything is open to subjectivity and perception, and those statues have made heroes out of the losing side to some people

there's a reason that "the south will rise again" mentality exists, and it's because it wasn't properly stamped out and allowed to linger

there are many strategic reasons to destroy statues, art, architecture etc and it's a common tactic because it's effective and it should've been employed a long time ago

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>>138873369
Those statutes symbolise the loss of the old ways that no longer work in a civilized society. The losing team should not receive participation trophies.

>>138876930
These monuments are in the public square, and people are still woefully ignorant of what and who they represent. How is tucking them into a museum going to combat the ignorance that led to this situation?

Also, do you really believer that the "south will rise again" attitude is perpetuated solely by monuments and not the North's disdain for their "countrymen" while they were carrying out total warfare?

>>138873369
>slave enthusiasts
kek

>>138873840
So does everything else?

>>138876930
you're trying to stir up a fire that has been long put out. this is fucking with shit beyond your comprehension. opening up old wounds -- especially ones concerning a CIVIL WAR -- is never a good idea.
just leave it be or you will reap the whirlwind. there is a reason that confederate veterans received the same pension union vets did. there is a reason that nobody was tried for treason. there is a reason that secession was never put on trial. there is a good fucking reason that the north never exalted itself for what it did!

>>138876219
No, it's about the South asserting it's unique regional identity; something that wasn't a problem when we had a country where states were allowed to govern themselves.

>>138876930
>everything is open to subjectivity and perception, and those statues have made heroes out of the losing side to some people
When you remove those statues, you aren't just removing images of the 'losers' of the Civil War, you're chipping away at the South's regional identity, their unique heritage as Americans.

This country is hopelessly divided, friend, and along more than just racial lines. Embrace regionalism.

>>138873369
No. Because while any level headed person can see slavery is wrong:

A) Those men were great men in spite of some small faults. General Lee led the Spanish American war and without his efforts, Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, Mississippi, Louisiana, most of California, and maybe Florida would be under control of Texas/Spain. He was also an officer and teacher at west point academy. He resigned before the civil war broke out, and in a letter to Abraham Lincoln said he would never draw his sword again unless it was in defense of his home state, Virginia. Well war broke out and he defended Virginia like he said.

B) while slavery was a part of the civil war, the war was really about the direction of the country as a whole.

C) General Lee didn't even own slaves. He did own servants. But if the precedent is set we have to remove statues of someone who fought for slavery, then surely we must remove the statues of Jefferson, Washington, Adams, Hamilton, and most of our founding fathers who owned slaves. Using that logic we should tear the constitution up since those who wrote it owned slaves

D) most of the developing world at the time had slavery anyway

right or wrong, it is a part of our nations history. You cannot delete history, and the statues do not glorify them because they are racist, but glorify men who were frankly amazing men of character, honor, and faith, and made significant improvements to America. These men were more than just slave owners and most were not racist.

No one cared about the statues until a bunch of lazy white social justice warriors on Twitter decided it was a problem and get their rocks off by making a national scene over it.

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>>138876475
drawing arbitrary lines to "compromise" isn't an argument.

>>138877972
Under control of Mexico/Spain***

>>138873369
>the lives of slave enthusiasts

Robert Lee certainly wasn't a slave "enthusiast", whataver that means. But Washington and Jefferson were slave owners and Lincoln dind't like negros very much, do ther statues also need to go?

>>138874364
>>138873748 is doing exactly what you criticized >>138873756 for, you fucking frog.

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This is now.

>>138877292

the losing side's statues have no place in a public square, and never did

and that mentality is perpetuated by the reminders and making those people into idols, it's been a long time since the civil war the treatment of the south by the north is irrelevant at this point because everyone alive then is long dead

but when statues and flags remain,being waved and idolized the mentality is able to keep existing

you think enemy soldiers destroy shit like that for no reason in other instances or do you think that maybe there's purpose and breaking down that morale is one of them?

>>138877778

i'm personally doing fuckall other than pointing out that those statues should've been destroyed a long time ago so that people like you wouldn't cling to them

>>138873369
nah he's a faggot ripping anything is never justified if anyone has a problem with it they should use legal means and public debate with arguments and shit we aren't animals period

>>138877972
>D) most of the developing world at the time had slavery anyway
This. There especially wasnt any African nations of empires that didnt have slavery as the basis of their economy at the time.

>>138874184
>we're not going to touch it
>YAH YOU BETTER NOT
>we just said we decided on our own not to....
>autistic screeching intensifies

>>138876475
No it isn't normal. It is a mental illness. Normal and natural are two different things. And frankly neither define homosexuality well.

Why do homos call normal couples "straight"? Men and woman do not call their relationship that, that classification was created by homosexuals. Homos are thereby admitting that the union between a man and woman is straight and normal and there's is not.

You can lie to yourself as much as you want but it isn't normal. Just like my alcoholism isn't normal. I can't have one drink without having 20 and falling off the wagon again, where a normal person can have 1 or 2 and go no further. I also have a mental illness and have to swear abstinence from drink as the homo has to be abstinent from sex. It's the only cure.

Sorry you've been so brainwashed but shoving your erect dick into another mans asshole which was made to excrete shitand basically using him to madturbate into like a live sex doll is the opposite of natural. Sex was made for children, the ass was made to expel bodily matter. All this is so obvious to anyone that it amazes me ANYONE calls I normal or natural, lmao. It's literally the opposite.

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>>138876475
>being gay is perfectly normal

>being trans is a neurological issue

Hey Gavin, go shove a porcupine up that ass your talking out of

>>138873369
Fuck the ''it's history'' argument even if the statues were brand new they deserve to be there to honor the heroism of people fighting against the odds versus a tyrannical government.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAnRTcB4NAg

>>138873369
It's just witch burning season. People periodically have to vent their hate, this time it's art and history getting the treatment. In 60s it was the Vietnam war, the 50s communism, the 40s Jews.
There will be some evil done, some people persecuted, then later they will all be sorry. That's people.

>>138878449
>the losing side's statues have no place in a public square, and never did
>losing side
Literally not what it's about. If that's the "losing side" then self-determination is as well, but oh wait, that's the very foundation of this nation.

>and that mentality is perpetuated by the reminders and making those people into idols
Pure ignorance. It took WW2 for a large portion of the South to start feeling like Americans again. Having your parents/grandfolk eating rats because the northern armies purposefully destroyed everything their "fellow citizens" had, while at the same time weaponizing non-citizens against them is what led to such attitudes. Lincoln undeniably being the most tyrannical ruler this nation every produced is what led to that.

Ignorance like yours is what leads to people not realizing that if the South hadn't resisted and denied several attempts at appeasement, SLAVERY WOULD HAVE BEEN MADE PERMANENT WITH AN AMENDMENT TO THE FUCKING CONSTITUTION AND WOULD STILL BE LEGAL.

>>138873369
By that logic all swastikas must be banned even if they're Buddhist symbols or others because it reminds people of the holocaust.

>>138873369
Counterpoint: remove blacks instead.

>>138873369
Black were taught this shit by the MSM and the libcuck American schools. If blacks were trained (like monkeys) to play at being victims and had these ideas impressed on them are part of their "culture", the average colored could succeed in life and would give two squirts about some dead Confederate.


Blacks are cannon fodder, tools of the political machine that needs to keep fermenting division among Americans in order to keep themselves atop their perches.

i love the fact that one of the millenial arguments is its all about the losing side.

So then, why do we get angered at colonialism? We should finish what we started since they all are the "losing side"

>for a moment, I forget that whites are the only race with empathy

>>138879470
Also the superior argument against gun control/confiscation.

>>138873840
Thats their own problem, they choose to feel that way

>>138879946
Sort of how the word "nigger" only reminds them of what image they present to the civilized world.

>>138873369
Who gives a shit what niggers think? Why should we care? Just because a nigger thinks some stupid shit doesn't mean the rest of us have to act on it.

>>138873369
The purpose of memorial is to remember. People put their own connotation to it bc wars are about a lot of issues. It should remind the large majority of people the slavery that Jews shipped to the USA. It's really a moot point to argue memorials down bc there is more human trafficking and sex trafficking now than ever.
The memorial argument is virtue signaling for power and nothing more. Tell your flat mate they are a faggot and so are you for saying flat mate.

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>>138873369
No leader worth his salt ever had statues of the other side in a civil war removed. You know why?
Because it's a CIVIL WAR. The country fighting against each other, not some invading army. Everyone has to live together as one nation afterwards; what is removing monuments honouring the fallen supposed to accomplish? It's not praising their ideals, it's not flaunting their political views. It's respects to the men who died fighting for their country, even if they ended up being on the wrong side.
If I recall correctly most of these monuments and cemeteries for confederates were commissioned by the widows and descendants of those dead men, digging them up with their own hands from mass battlefield graves.

If you want to talk about a controversial monument, you could look at the one of the Soviet soldier in Germany celebrating the sack of the city. NOT a statue that simply honours "the boys who wore the grey".

>>138873369
>slave enthusiasts
Man, I fucking love hearing the deluded rationalizations liberals come up with once they figure out that Robert E Lee never owned slaves.

How anyone can call themselves a leftist in this day and age without instantly experiencing some embarrassment-related mechanical failure is beyond me.

>>138880504
A fucking Leaf has to point out that Civil War was brudda war.

>>138873840
So do IQ tests.

Get over it, retard.

>>138873369

Apart from the obvious fascism of tearing down statues. If he doesn't want to be a hypocrit he'll also have to insists on tearing down every sign of islamic and (west)african culture. Since the overwhelming majority of the slave trade done based on them (and they still continue to this day)

>>138880909
Quit oppressing niggers!

http://www.fairtest.org/sites/default/files/racial_justice_and_testing_12-10.pdf

>>138880504
>>138880854

Do Leftists consider the south to be occupied territory? Things make more sense if you picture it that way.

>>138873369
tell him he's a retard because "symbolyzing" is subjective and no one owes him fucking nothing

>>138877781

again those statues shouldn't be there for people to bitch about

>>138878047

there is no compromise, losers get eradicated not honoured

Tell him that we need reminders of our failures to prevent making the same mistakes again.

You're already indoctrinated. Just agree with your friend and go to the next violent Antifa protest with him. You have a weak mind.

>>138881193
I've never came across anyone who thought occupied territory. There are history jokes that can and I'm sure do get out of hand sometimes but for the most part it's all friendly.
One Nation under God.

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>>138873369
If you meant niggers, then yeah, they must be removed

>>138873756
Cant you think for yourself?

What if i told you noone today owns slaves therefore celebrating slavery is pointless and the history isnt worth mentioning half as much as the heroism of the generals and leaders who fought for the south during the civil war
People like you who neee other people to formulate opinions for them is why Soros' strategy works so well

>>138873369
It can stand to represent what former slaves overcame as well. Life isn't a Disney movie. Every event has 10 sides and 100 ways of interpretation.

>>138881193
Kinda like England and America. Aside from Israel, England is and continues to be our oldest enemy. Pretty friendly ribbing and trade but we would blow the Queen and her pedophile island off the map if pushed. Lol ha ha I joke I kid I kid.

England hosts the largest pedophile information exchange and does nothing to stop it. Evil.

>>138878728

most people are at least somewhat bisexual (myself included, i'm engaged to a woman, never dated a guy, but i have had sex with both) just how it is

that being said it is normal, maybe not common but it's perfectly natural

the words used to describe someone's sexual orientation aren't an admission of anything, you're grasping there

sex is recreation, it's intimacy etc because it feels good it's not just for procreation and there's no need to put that abrahamic spin on it

never did that with a guy, but i can tell you anal sex is pleasurable and it works perfectly fine for more than one purpose

>>138879025

those things are true, whether you like them or not


>>138879270

i actually don't agree with what lincoln did, but your argument right there is the same one black people use about slavery keeping them down still

how do you feel when they use something they weren't alive for as an excuse? i'm curious

>>138879703

the thing is typically the victors have the sense to not leave behind mementos and martyrs for the losing side to cling to

had that been done initially there'd be no issue, those statues never had a place

now they'd be better off in a museum

all races have empathy, and regardless of ethnicity there are people who lack it

elevating the white race as if there aren't pieces of shit in it while simultaneously devaluing people of value of other races is sheer ignorance

>>138882353
Hahahahahha
You're a faggot plain and simple.
You are sexual deviant.
You are engaging in high risk behavior.
You probably have a drug problem.
You make excuses for your hedonistic behavior.
You are a degenerate.

>>138882353
>i actually don't agree with what lincoln did, but your argument right there is the same one black people use about slavery keeping them down still
Except that argument is used to demand something be given to make up for it, whereas southerners demand nothing of the sort

>>138873369
Let's go down this rabbit hole
>Confederates are bad because they wanted slaves
>Plantation owners used slave labor to become incredibly rich and establish large cities and improve the economy
>The work of slaves help make America great
>slavery is abolished
>Suddenly these plantation owners are evil because the laws change
>Freemen now inhabit the cities that would not be there if slavery did not exist

Their very cities are monuments to slavery, should we tear them down as well?

>>138873369
Sons of the Confederacy is an organization with both white and black great grandsons of confederate soldiers who often march in Mardi Gras parades.
Everyone should enjoy their family history regardless of how great or meager it's beginning.
I was really surprised myself when I saw an all black platoon of Sons of the Confederacy marching.

>>138882757

i see no shame in hedonistic behaviour or enjoying the pleasures life has to offer

i'm not a slave to abrahamic faiths or morality that doesn't reflect my own, so i hardly consider myself a degenerate

i have had problems with drugs in the past, and i do indulge in drugs and alcohol still...so what?

i see no difference between having sex with a man or a woman, i either like someone or i don't and i happen to be with a woman (and have been for a long time) if that makes me a "faggot" oh well

>>138882831

i'm not asking about what the argument is used for, i'm asking what you think about the logic behind the argument itself

>>138883489
Spoken like a Satanist.
I don't give a shit about your religion but morality is based in nature, logic, law, economics so yeah it pays financially and physical health wise to be moral so fuck off with your faggotry.

>>138881300
>again those statues shouldn't be there for people to bitch about
They're going to bitch anyway. Might as well let Southerners be proud of who they are at the same time.

>>138883783

i'm not a satanist, i don't accept abrahamic faiths on any level and satanism would be included there

morality is subjective, and the idea that drugs and consensual sex are immoral is just not an objective reality

>>138883489
>i'm not asking about what the argument is used for, i'm asking what you think about the logic behind the argument itself
There's too much context to compare the two directly IMO. Free blacks owned slaves at higher rates than whites, and chattel slavery was brought here by them in the first place, so personally I think blacks crying foul is a bit hypocritical and ignorant.

>>138873369
Tell him that he will never, ever earn respect from blacks by being a cuck, that they do not respect generosity or empathy and only respect strength. A nigger respects an outright racist more than they respect a noddle-armed cuck vegan faggot.

>>138884020
>morality is subjective, and the idea that drugs and consensual sex are immoral is just not an objective reality
Okay, but you do realize that promiscuity and drug use are objectively physically bad for you, right?

>>138883859

i'm not stopping anyone from doing anything, just pointing out that the statues being destroyed isn't that big of a deal because they should've been (again i don't even agree with what lincoln did)

i also look at it like we're clearly on the cusp of another civil war, tearing down statues is just how this sort of thing goes

do i think there should be one? nah all citizens share a common enemy and this is a great divide and conquer tactic that leaves the government free to pick through the leftovers at the end for its own means more easily

pointless in fighting when a revolution would make more sense

>>138883489
You're a mentally broken husk of an individual

>>138884750
>i'm not stopping anyone from doing anything, just pointing out that the statues being destroyed isn't that big of a deal because they should've been (again i don't even agree with what lincoln did)
They're symbols of Southern Identity, so no, they should not have come down.

>do i think there should be one? nah all citizens share a common enemy and this is a great divide and conquer tactic that leaves the government free to pick through the leftovers at the end for its own means more easily
Multi-racial society doesn't work. Civil War or Balkanization is the only solution.

>>138884042

you don't need to break things down like that and split hairs to work with my comparison

what i'm saying is if you can declare that history can still affect one group then how do you feel when another says things that happened at the same time period still affect them? who did what isn't part of the equation

>>138884328

i wouldn't say i was promiscuous, i've been in a 12 year relationship and i haven't slept with a lot of people

the people i have slept with just happen to not all be one gender, how does that go hand in hand with promiscuity?

drug use can be bad for you sure, but it can also be good too matter of perspective and the way they're used

>>138884911

not at all

>>138885162

multi racial neighborhoods can be perfectly fine, i've lived in many with no issues

the idea that things can't be fine if people aren't all of one race in an area is just ignorance

that being said, that sort of ignorance has been partially instilled by the government and culture because it serves a good purpose

again divide and conquer tactics utilized by the government keep everyone down

no race is special to those in power, no average citizen is either

we're all equally worthless and powerless within the overall system and lashing out at potential allies is senseless

like i said, common enemy and it's not each other

>>138886160
>the people i have slept with just happen to not all be one gender, how does that go hand in hand with promiscuity?
Well, it definitely puts you at a higher risk for AIDS, and really any STD, considering that the average homosexual is pretty promiscuous.
(https://carm.org/statistics-homosexual-promiscuity)

>drug use can be bad for you sure, but it can also be good too matter of perspective and the way they're used
Depends on the drug.

>multi racial neighborhoods can be perfectly fine, i've lived in many with no issues
You need to read Bowling Alone by Robert Putnam.

>>138886608

i've been tested, i'm fine, and it's curious "straight" guys who usually like me anyway

i've never been with a guy who's been with other guys before me, and i've been with more women

like i said i'm engaged to a woman

of course it depends on the drug, i know that better than most, used to be a heroin addict

a book isn't going to mean as much to me as my personal experience spending most of my life in multiracial areas

>>138885235
>you don't need to break things down like that and split hairs to work with my comparison
That's your opinion.

>how do you feel when another says things that happened at the same time period still affect them?
I already explained that blacks are ignorant of their own past association with chattel slavery.

>>138887501
>i've been tested, i'm fine, and it's curious "straight" guys who usually like me anyway
It's still extremely high risk behavior that you probably shouldn't engage in.

>of course it depends on the drug, i know that better than most, used to be a heroin addict
at least you weren't a slave to abrahamic morality :^)

>a book isn't going to mean as much to me as my personal experience spending most of my life in multiracial areas
But your personal experience doesn't matter quite as much as statistical evidence over a 10-year period does. Not when it comes to governing, anyway.

>>138873369
>celebrating the lives of slave enthusiasts
This is a good thing.

>>138887547

well considering i'm the one asking the question you nit picking just seems like a way to evade an actual answer

the ignorance of who was involved isn't relevant because i'm talking about the result not the situation itself

i'm asking you why something at that time is a valid excuse for one group and not another even though the time elapsed is the same for both groups?

why should blacks be expected to have their shit together quicker than whites given the circumstances?

>>138887940

it's not as if i plan out akk of my sexual encounters prior to having them or even go out looking

i quit heroin, i haven't touched an opiate in a while, and while it did become a terrible situation it was very brief in comparison to a lifetime spent following morals from books that aren't true because indoctrination

statistics can be skewed to suit narratives, you should know that

at any rate, there's no reason why redivision of land after a revolution couldn't happen for the remaining citizens mutual benefit

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>>138873369
No, and there was nothing to stop anyone from erecting a statue of a civil rights hero.

Tell him that the big reason behind the statue thing, is that liberals are trying to erase the history of the Democratic party.

>FDR internment camps
>Woodrow Wilson arresting reporters
>Slavery

etc.

>>138888839

all*

>>138888839
>well considering i'm the one asking the question you nit picking just seems like a way to evade an actual answer
Applying the relevant context is not nitpicking. If your point are only coherent when omitting as much as humanly possible from the equation, they're not valid in the first place.

>>138873748
Except they won't. Removing Confederate monuments doesn't equate to the erasure of history.

>>138889115

if you need to nitpick at details that are irrelevant to the question (and yours are) then it just comes off like evasion

>>138889122
The "erasure" of history is already in full swing, fueled by ignorance and revisionism. The removal of monuments is just a symptom.

>>138873369
Also, anon, since you're from the UK, your flatmate will always be a cuck by default.

>>138889296
>I get to decide what is and isnt relevant based on what makes my argument work best

Just like you get to determine what a monument or symbol means to someone else, right?

>>138873369
all white people are racist therefore any statue of a white person should be torn down

>>138889122
But it does erase the Union's decision to allow the south to erect those monuments to help them heal and re-embrace the Union.

The statues are a by-product of the healing process after the civil war.

>>138878449
>culture should be forgotten and destroyed because they lost
How very juden of you

>>138889614
They're the scabs that the impudent and immature nation can keep themselves from picking.

Though we all know if you dont wait long enough, it will bleed again.

>>138889403

i wasn't making an argument in either direction, i was asking a question that you refuse to give a simple answer to

i do get to decide what is and isn't relevant to a question i asked because i know my intentions

i can't tell people what statues should mean to them, all i've done is point out that destroying statues is a good strategy and that it was a poor judgment call that they're even here for people to bitch over present day

>>138888839
>statistics can be skewed to suit narratives, you should know that
What makes you think that's the case in regard Bowling Alone?

>at any rate, there's no reason why redivision of land after a revolution couldn't happen for the remaining citizens mutual benefit
Fair enough.

>>138889968
>can
cannot*

>>138889975
>I wasn't implying that culture should be destroyed
>I simply stated that culture should be destroyed!
Go fuck yourself, and go back to plebbit

>>138889975
>i do get to decide what is and isn't relevant to a question i asked because i know my intentions
So you admit you ask loaded, leading questions?

>>138889614
I doubt there exists a distinct 'southern' identity anymore. If it did, the statues wouldn't be getting removed by city councils.

The wounds from the Civil War have healed.

>>138889320
The statues are a commemoration of slavery. Simple as.

>>138889968

The only reason why anyone decided to care about these statues is when liberals brought it up; enticing LARPers to gather around them in protest and whatnot.

Before that, they were sitting there for decades, collecting dust and no one had given two fucks.

>>138889905

look at history, this is a common strategy employed by all different groups of people (whites included) because it's effective in destroying ideas and morale and altering the culture in the future

ideally you crush opponents as thoroughly as possible

>>138890188
plebbit refuges think that because they can form an opinion that said opinion should be respected.

Ironic that he is arguing for the revision of history in favor of disrespecting the sacrifices of his countrymen. Typical millennial narcissism.

>>138890241
>The statues are a commemoration of slavery. Simple as.
Prove it, dumbfuck. These statues have commemorations upon them. Should be fairly easy to prove, no?

>>138890326
>crush the culture and identity of the country you are trying to keep together
You are retarded. Any conflict requires thought towards the losers of said conflict, else the conflict WILL be given life once more. The world wars is the perfect example of this.

You either genocide EVERY SINGLE PERSON who can identify with the loser, or you make concessions. War is not simple.

>>138873369
Americans fought and died against the threat of Communism. MLK was not only a serial adulterer, but a well-known communist. As celebrating communists is quintessentially anti-american, we have no choice but to rip down MLK statues.

>>138890542
It is a commemoration of the person and whet they stood for. Which was slavery.

>>138890542
He is going to simplify the concept of war to protect his argument. They all resort to it to defend this shit.

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>>138873369
no, no he is not.

>>138890292
It's a typical Alinskyite move.

>>138890715
>Lee
>stood for slavery
Prove it. How do you reconcile the FACT that the North offered appeasement to the South in the form of CONSTITUTIONALLY PROTECTED SLAVERY and the South refused, thus ensuring slavery is not the law TO THIS VERY DAY?

>>138890715
>they stood for slavery
Citation needed. By that same logic, you stand for communism and all of its practices.

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>>138890241
>The wounds from the Civil War have healed.

They healed, but they're a historical reminder of the restoration process, and they're being torn down by people with the emotional capacity of small children.

What I find really interesting is that no one is looking to take this one down. Really makes you think.

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>>138876981
Based wall man

>>138890028

didn't say i did think it, just throwing out that they can be

>>138890133

had the union been thorough we wouldn't be having this discussion was my point

and just because i can see the merit in a strategy and say as much doesn't mean i'm personally advocating it

>>138890188

not a loaded or leading question, i just wanted to know your opinion that you refuse to answer, and i get it you won't go there so we'll move on and i'll assume you have a double standard

>>138890809
The entire narrative is built around it. Any attempt to restore the conversation to one based on reason will get you branded a racist. Just as planned I suppose.

>>138890241
>I doubt there exists a distinct 'southern' identity anymore.
There is. You'd know that if you were from here and not Slovenia.

>If it did, the statues wouldn't be getting removed by city councils.
How does that mean Southern Identity no longer exists? European history is being rewritten in public schools and universities to suit ME migrants, does that mean European identities no longer exist either?

>The wounds from the Civil War have healed.
They haven't. Look at how the South is portrayed in our films for example - evil, bigoted, dumb, incestuous hillbillies. Or, if it's a story that's set in the South, the antagonist is always the one with an unreconstructed mentality.

>>138873369

He is tbqh, why do you think the majority of garbage who browse this board want the statues left standing. They're racist low iq garbage, no empathy. Just bad people in general tbqh.

>>138873979
>it's a reminder
Just like the thousands of Hitler and Stalin statue over Europe eh?

>>138891070
>i just wanted to know your opinion that you refuse to answer
I gave you my opinion, several times. I didnt give you the answer that you wanted and tried to craft your "question" into providing. Maybe it'll work on the next guy.

>>138891070
>had the union genocided the south we wouldn't be having this discussion
Yes, because the union would be no more. Your view of conflict is infantile, to say the least.

>>138891213
>muh false equivalency
Really all you have going for you is ignorance and apathy.

>>138891076
>just as planned
They've been working on this plan for a very long time. Notice how almost all depictions of the south in media is negative. This is not an accident.

>>138873369
>blacks will always see it differently therefore you must comply

lol.

>>138873840
Niggers will always cry about something. They should be thankful for slavery or they'd have nothing to base their miserable existence on. American niggers are worse than other niggers in other developed countries, probably due to the high volume.

>>138890676

i never said war was simple, it's the opposite

what i said is crushing your enemies and making proper use of destroying their morale so they don't cling to the ideals you crushed is important

you don't leave your enemies to come back for you, at least that's how it often needs to be

>>138890408

there's no obligation to respect the deaths or lives of people in the past, especially when whether or not that respect should be given is purely subjective

>>138890542

there's no way to prove it because the civil war being about slavery is just the narrative given to keep people happy with what happened

nevermind the lincoln was racist himself, didn't care about the slaves, and infringed on state rights

>>138891852
>there is no obligation to respect the dead
Spoken like a true morally bankrupt millennial.

>>138876981
Then why is there a Vietnam War Memorial in DC?

>>138890909
>>Lee
>>stood for slavery
>Prove it.

He fought on the side of the Confederates?

>>138891150
>European history is being rewritten in public schools and universities to suit ME migrants

Not, it's not. Stop treating /pol/ hyperbole and clickbait articles as fact.

>>138891150
>evil, bigoted, dumb, incestuous hillbillies

You mean like in Gone with the Wind, Gettysburg, Cold Mountain, The Last Confederate?

>>138890995
Not as infamous, I'd imagine.

>>138890917
The generals who fought on the side of the confederacy did so because northern prohibition of slavery threatened to cripple their economy? They were, in effect, fighting to maintain slavery and keep their industry alive.

>>138891309

you're throwing the word genocide around, not me

never mentioned it, what i said was statues and flags should have been stomped out, the symbolism needed to be taken away and not kept for decades upon decades to retain power

>>138891234

no you gave me a lengthy response that evaded the question and focused on details that had no purpose in the response

>>138891852
>exterminate your enemies entirely
Know why this never works? Because it turns your own people against you, creating an even worse enemy than the one you destroyed.
You might have no morals, but most people do. By stepping on the beliefs of others you open yourself to be challenged on the conviction of your own beliefs. If your only moral in life is
>might makes right
then you are going to be murdered by the people you think follow you the closest.

You would make a terrible leader.

>>138892144
>if i simplify the buildup to the war, then my simple understanding of said war will be correct!
Yes, just like you are a communist sympathizer.

>>138891989

there isn't, a lot of people are dead you think every single one of them deserves respect?

respect is earned (and is deeply subjective) not implicitly given, i'm not a dog

>>138892187
>eradicate your enemy so they can't bother you later
>woah, I'm not talking genocide now...
Holy shit you are retarded

>>138873369
Slave hobbiest not enthusiast

>>138873369
Oh no we should tear down all european castles because they glorify the kings who oppressed the serfs

literally 99% of europeans were technically slaves, black people should learn history

>>138892340

did i say exterminate them entirely?

i said crush them thoroughly and not leave loose ends, that doesn't mean genocide

there are a lot of ways to crush people without killing them, sorry you're incapable of thinking of them

>>138892550
No, you are even worse than a dog. Even dogs understand to give others respect, else you risk their wrath for the offense you have delivered onto them.

Why not go rob that store down the street? Why does the shopkeeper deserve the respect of honorable customers?

>>138892780
>crush them entirely and not leave loose ends
>no loose ends
>still not genocide though!
wew

>regardless of the good and heroism

Not sure if serious or just trolling.

>>138873369
the confederacy was more american than america is. Wish they had won.

>>138892490
You've not provided anything to the contrary of what I said. If you intend to call me 'communist' in every post you make in reply to mine, I suggest you turn off your monitor, reassess and ponder on the situation long enough to form a coherent argument, and get back to me once you've done so.

>>138892589

i never used the word eradicate, i said to be thorough

there are a lot of ways of being thorough that aren't genocide and some of them involve longterm planning

>>138892144
>He fought on the side of the Confederates?
The people who rejected the offer of constitutionally protected slavery, thus ensuring slavery isnt legal today?

Lee really was a damn hero, wasn't he?

>>138892144
>He fought on the side of the Confederates?
Confederates didn't die for a bunch of niggers that weren't even human to them. Most of them didn't even own any. Lee fought for his homeland.

>>138873369
Stick to worrying about your own country's problems.

>>138873369
Who are the figures represented in these confederate statues, exactly?

>>138873369
History doesn't paint a very good picture of Communism, it should be no surprise that they want to destroy it

>>138892797

respect is earned not given implicitly, the only thing people inherently deserve is civility and that's reserved for the living

i don't just go out and rob people because there's no need for it, but that has nothing to do with respect for the ideas of some dead men (or all of them since they're all deserving of respect according to you, no matter who they are apparently) or a few statues

>>138892856

you do realize both peace and violence are part of war strategies right? and that there's more than one way to crush someone without killing them

your lack of creativity is your own issue not mine, if i meant genocide i would say "genocide" because to be perfectly honest a lot of death is not always avoidable when things need to be done

so i wouldn't mask the word, large scale violence can lead to great things

it just isn't what i was talking about

>don't worry goys we're just destroying the statues of the bad guys
>don't worry goys we're violenting assaulting and silencing the speech of the bad guys

wee I like this game

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>>138873369
>must be removed
>is he right
Answering this question with a "yes" or "no" justifies its premise. Leftists ultimately believe that white people themselves must be removed.

I'd advise you to form an opinion by reading up on the Civil War from both perspectives. To whet the appetite, here's a rundown (from a Southerner):

1. Robert E. Lee opposed slavery as an institution. He felt it was detrimental to both whites and blacks alike. He was compelling. He was also objectively one of America's greatest generals (Grant had trouble fighting off rag-tag groups of Confederates along the Potomac. People who suck Grant's dick know zero military history).

2. Lee couldn't have been any more racist than Lincoln--who advocated for blacks either going back to Africa or remaining as second class citizens.

3. Lee was from Virginia. Virginia seceded AFTER Fort Sumter (1861), when the Federal gov. declared war on South Carolina. Within the South, there were at least two justifications for war: A. States' Rights, and B. If you can vote into a Union, why can't you vote out? MANY Southerners that opposed slavery were disturbed by what happened in SC.

4. Yes, SC fired on Fort Sumter after it was reinforced with federal troops. States that seceded following this, like NC, were invaded without having done anything.

5. Up until the Gettysburg Address (1863), the Union used slave labor (in its slave states) toward the war effort against the South.

6. A minority of whites owned plantations. This might shock people, but the South always had more communities of white people that started businesses, went to church, traded, hunted, etc. These people were drafted to fight. The motivations to fight, again, depend on the state (and this requires some topographical knowledge of America). The upper south (VA, NC, TN, KY) were less suited for plantations like those in SC, GA, AL, MI...

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>>138874466
this. Didn't he read across five Aprils in school? The civil war was about brothers fighting brothers and how in the end it everyone did bad things, but the nation needed to move on and come together. What libs don't understand about history is that the north were the attackers, they burned down american homesteads and farms, they hunted american confederates and agitators down and caused havoc for 5 years.

These statues of southern heroes wheren't people that were just felt, they actually stopped farms from being burnt down and actual americans from being raped or murdered. Americans that had family in both the north and the south. Taking down the statues is a spit in the face to the ~1 million dead americans.

I always find it fun to visit this site and remind myself there are people this detached from reality.


The civil war was an open rebellion against the United States for the right to own other humans as slaves. Fighting in the Confederate army, against the USA, so your rich neighbors can own blacks is probably the most embarrassing thing to have in your family history besides finding out your grandpa was a raging pedophile.

There is nothing you can cry about that diminishes that point. Stop celebrating people who killed to own slaves.

>>138873369
>blacks will always see this as
hes not wrong in this regard in the slightest but it doesnt justify tearing down history
If anything the inability to follow what is required for a 1st world society justifies America returning to being a white ethnostate due to the societal impact caused by affirmative action and civil rights policies over the years
>but muh bolshevik nationalism because theyre not all bad
It would be racist to only deport the bad ones, besides the benefits of keeping the good ones dont outweigh the negatives brought on by their entire community.
Besides double standards are a slippery slope and always lead to infighting due to resentment.

>>138873369
Slavery was just Socialism. Socialism was not a coined term yet.

>>138894555
>The civil war was an open rebellion against the United States for the right to own other humans as slaves.
Which is why they refused attempts at appeasement that would have made the right to won slaves an amendment to the constitution?

If the north wasnt fighting to end slavery (easily verifiable), then how was the south fighting to keep it?

>>138874184
>>138878680
The Trump administration is active in stripping environmental protections for the absurd goal of just undoing whatever progress Obama made.


They are going to sell plastic water bottles in Yellowstone now, because Trump specifically undid the Obama decision to ban it in something so unbelievably petty it's absurd.

Commenting with surprise/relief that Trump won't fuck something up is warranted.

>>138894840
Do you really think I'm going to debate this with you? Stop celebrating the disgusting stain on American history where the country split in two because the South wanted to own other human beings as slaves.

>>138894555

the civil war was federal government impeding on state rights and slaves just got caught up in what was going on and benefitted from it longterm in spite of it never being lincoln's intention

lincoln didn't care about the slaves, he cared about exerting power of big government over what should have been a state's right to sovereignty

>>138894931
>They are going to sell plastic water bottles in Yellowstone now, because Trump specifically undid the Obama decision to ban it in something so unbelievably petty it's absurd.
No, banning plastic bottles is what's absurd. Expect more from people and demand personal responsibility. Problem solved. Your "solution" is a race to the bottom of the authoritarian for "good intentions" barrel.

>>138895129
>Do you really think I'm going to debate this with you?
You couldnt possibly do so in a million years, so no, I dont think you're going to do that.

Slaves were paid, they did not work for free. Slavery was just the old term for socialism.

To say blacks endured cruelty whites did not is not true either. Whites were flogged and whipped and lynched publicly till the early 1900's in the United States as a form of punishment and discipline as well.

>>138873369
There are paintings, sculptures and churches made in the name of pedophiles, murderers and war criminals, but taking them down is an immature way of obtaining instan gratification for your beliefs.

i.e: ISIS

>>138873369
Those statues are to show American history whether or not the event or person it portrays is something that was likable. It lets people know that this is the path our forefathers took which led us to the country we are today.
Even if you think that it's completely justified there is no excusing that people ignored the government's due process and committed crimes of property damage and destruction of government-sanctioned buildings. If people want these statues taken down they can use the system we already have in place for taking such actions instead of copying ISIS.

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Here's some whites being whipped in 1904.

>>138895162
>he civil war was federal government impeding on state rights

muh states rights to enslave coloreds.

>>138895193
you understand that Yellowstone is considered pretty because it's not a trash dump, right? I mean, I know what you are going to say if I even have to ask you that question........

>>138895129

that isn't what the civil war was about, slaves just got lucky indirectly and it helped them out

lincoln would have left slavery legal had he felt like he had a choice in the matter because that wasn't why the union fought the south

the slavery narrative is used to paint lincoln and the civil war in a completely different light than what it actually was because it paints a nicer picture than the truth

>>138895379
It's a know fact ( to those who care about such facts) that more whites came to this nation in bondage as indentured servants than blacks came as slaves, and that indentured servitude was a far harsher practice and the "servants" were often worked to their deaths to avoid having to pay them the stipend they were owed after 7 years.

The term "spirited away" refers to the kidnapping of Irish, who were likely sent off to their deaths via forced labor in Barbados.

These are historical monuments, if we tore down everything associated with a tragic past we'd be left with nothing. For example, the Colosseum was built by 60000 Jewish slaves, should the Italians tear that down? Wouldn't surprise me if they did, but the correct answer is; fuck no. It's a reminder of their history.

If anything these people should demand Qatar and other Arab states have their entire cities torn down because of modern slavery.

Now you could argue "But it triggers black people, it's a constant reminder blahblalblabla." You don't see the French being babies about the genocide of Gaul.

>>138895653
>you understand that Yellowstone is considered pretty because it's not a trash dump, right? I mean, I know what you are going to say if I even have to ask you that question........
You do understand that the availability of plastic doesnt make it an inevitability that yellowstone will be littered with it, right?

Are you afraid of this because of the recent push to get your precious minorities outdoors to "degentrify" the national parks? You afraid it'll end up looking like the parts of town you avoid at all costs?

>>138895705
You are right, sorry.

Which side owned humans as slaves, again? Which side went to war while their territory allowed enslavement of humans? Which side codified the right to own human beings as part of their declaration of the war? Which side were fucking traitors to the USA in open rebellion? Your ancestors are remembered for exactly what they are.

>>138894555
Wrong, the civil war was caused by the south using slave labor to short the market value of key resources in attempts to destroy the north's economy.
Slavery isnt bad because a matter of ethics or morals, its naive to think this way.
Slavery is bad because its short term bubble reliant economics.
Besides if you truly cared about whats right or wrong then you wouldnt maintain a willful ignorance to the south african genocide currently ongoing.
They wont stop at rhodesia..

>>138895653

i'm from nyc first off, second of all the slaves benefitted from the civil war but the war wasn't fought for their freedom

again lincoln was racist and would have left them as slaves because what he cared about was keeping the north and south together not slavery

the war was large government crushing small government even though states should have more power than the federal government over what goes on inside of them

the civil war being about slaves just makes it sound like lincoln was right in spite of that not at all being the case

>>138895969
I don't even know how to comprehend this kind of delusion. It's like making eye contact with that sovereign citizen nut that smells of piss claiming a zone of personal space on the subway.

Yeah, selling disposable plastic bottles increases trash of plastic bottles. That's why it was such an issue to ban in the first place.

>>138873369
If he wants to get rid of things celebrating war mongers and slavers, ask him when he's getting rid of all the mosques

>>138895653
This is somthing you might find interesting
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHDfC-z9YaE

>>138896020
>Which side owned humans as slaves, again?
Both
>Which side went to war while their territory allowed enslavement of humans?
Literally both, you dumb shit.
>Which side codified the right to own human beings as part of their declaration of the war?
It was actually a declaration of independence, and the North offered the south appeasement in the form of the Corwin amendment, which would have permanently established slavery in the US. So.. again, both.
>Which side were fucking traitors to the USA in open rebellion?
Seeing as how it wasnt unconstitutional to withdraw from the union, the North were the traitors for attacking what they viewed as their countrymen.

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>>138894555
I'm related to a confederate general, and I'm proud of it. Previously, he fought in the Texas Revolution. Did he fight for slaves? No, he didn't. He fought 'for the South.' Which if you're a Southerner that has roots and generations of blood in this area, you already know precisely what was meant by that.


I'm getting really tired of newfag Americans that came off some boats in the last century expressing retarded and non-factual opinions on a war they didn't even have a stake in. I respect a good ol' Unionist from Pennsylvania more than some logically bereft faggot from NYC or California.

If those characterizations don't apply to you, then read some scholarly books other than your Northern state's public school curriculum.

>>138896134
"Don't discuss the South's desire to own slaves and glorify that 150 years later when there are bad things happening today in Africa"

fuck, if we applied that logic, I'd never be able to eat again

>>138895162
He was actually using big govt for what its meant to be used for since the states exploiting slave labor were purposely shorting the market in order to crash the economy of the country.
Not deporting the slaves or euthanizing them is where lincoln went wrong

>>138896210
>fix problems by banning things
spoken like a true fool. You obviously dont have the competence to even comprehend personal responsibility, sorry I brought it up.

>>138875812
this so much. I feel like the average American actually has no idea why the civil war was fought. they have no conception of the south's real complaint during that time period; their collective feeling that northern states had too much power in congress and the south felt like they were getting the shaft.

nowadays we're only taught in school that the civil war was fought to free black people. (besides in university, I took a basic level history class on the civil war and even that simple course gave more reason for the civil war other than muh slaves)

quality post.

>>138896199
Lincoln was right. Owning humans is not an American value. We had a war over owning humans and you fucking lost. Get over it.

>>138896398
if he fought for the confederacy, he fought to own slaves, you idiot.

>>138896528
oh ho ho, sure showed me

>>138875812
State rights to what?

>>138896724
right to enslave colored humans

>>138873369
all statues of people are lame as fuck

replace with sculptures or playgrounds
or sculpture playgrounds

>>138873369
>white southern Americans
what does argentina have to do with this?

>>138873369
Are you a white male middle class 20 something who's currently in university?

You sound like you are. Don't fight the brainwashing mate, accept your lecturers liberal indoctrination into your heart and become the ultracuck SJW you know you're meant to be.

>>138896404
I never justified the souths ownership of slaves in fact I directly criticized all slavery as an inherently bad economic practice regardless of who is doing it.
Ironic how you refuse to talk about the south african genocide while accussing me of refusing to talk about the souths use of slavery.

>>138896637
Lincoln literally said if he could preserve the union and slavery, he'd do it. He endorsed the Corwin amendment that would have permanently established the right of the states to allow/ban slavery. Ignorant fucking twat.

>Owning humans is not an American value
Technically right, the English only practiced indentured servitude. Chattel slavery was brought here and established in the courts by a black Angolan immigrant. Though the natives had been doing this for some time and took to enslaving blacks almost as soon as they could.

>>138896020

i doubt my cuban, italian, and puerto rican ancestors who got here less than 100 years ago had much to do with the civil war, but ok

i was born in nyc too btw not even southern

that all being said the war was never about freeing the slaves it was the federal government exerting power over states who had every right to rebel

open rebellion under a government that's over exerting power it shouldn't have isn't wrong

>>138896199
>>138896210

so much reddit spacing

>>138896724
Freedom, self-determination, the things promised to them upon entering the union..

If the north was fighting to end slavery, why was the Corwin amendment produced and endorsed by two different presidents?

>>138873369
No. Fuck what niggers want. They will never be happy.

Statistically every white person pays something like $8,000 USD in the form of reappropriated tax money to a single nigger over the course of their life and they still have the audacity to say they're not getting a fair shake. If they don't like it here, they can fuck right off, and if they don't like the last few physical monuments we have to states rights and the agency to rebel against a centralised government, they can also fuck right off.

>>138896514

the states should have been allowed to secede

>>138896637

i didn't lose the civil war

i wasn't alive then, i'm a guinea spic, and i'm from nyc

i just recognize that the slavery narrative is largely bullshit and black people are just used as a tool in the narrative against the confederacy

the losing side is nearly always painted in a worse light than what's in line with reality because history is written by the victors

>>138873369
>Is he right?
No, because I could tell someone he's fucking ignorant and he could take it as an offense to his intelligence, while it is in truth a remark about his knowledge.

You can't stop to take into account the fellings and opinions of someone who fails to understand what is being told to him, because there's only one correct undertanding, while infinite misunderstandings from the idiot.

>>138875812
Based Swede

One of the biggest lies in history is how (((they))) teach that the Civil War was a fight over slavery. FOUR NORTHERN STATES ALLOWED SLAVERY. If the United States wanted to ban slavery, they would have banned it in their own territory first, not someone else's country. This horrible, and obscene lie has actual consequences today. It wasn't just "State Rights" it was over the United States overreaching in what was agreed to in the Articles of Union. When you are part of a contract, and don't uphold your half of the mutually agreed to particulars, the other party is no longer obligated to uphold their half. That's the way the world works but tyrant Abraham Lincoln trumped on the South, killing hundreds of thousands to uphold a Union he was breaking apart by violating principles that held the Union together.

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>>138896637
>if he fought for the confederacy, he fought to own slaves, you idiot.

No, you supreme faggot. Lee fought for Virginia, which didn't even secede for States' Rights. They seceded because of the illegality of a Federal government invading a sovereign state (SC) that wanted out (for ANY reason). There's a reason Virginia's flag says "sic semper tyrannis."

We live in the United STATES, and it never occurred to you cunts that not every single state is SC, or cited the same reasons as SC's declaration of secession.

>>138897673
>niggers can fuck off
I agree but typically parasites do not leave willingly so they must be removed forcefully.

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There were black confederates and are southern blacks who still wave confederate flags.
At one point or another, everyone was a slave; today we are ALL slaves. Unless you're Jewish (according to themselves), and right there you as a white, and he as a black, have a common foe.

>>138897733
They did secede otherwise there wouldnt have been a war dipshit.
The north or United States Government was reacting accordingly to a direct aggression forming directly on its own borders, it was self defense.
The only reason its called the civil war was due to the geographic locations.
If california seceded they would be annexed imediately by the us military before a hostile superpower such as china anexed them.
Do you not fucking understand how geopolitics work?

>>138899283

what i meant by that was the secession of the states is what caused the war, and they should have been allowed to do so without retaliation from big government

i know if the states didn't secede the war wouldn't have happened, that was my point and i why i used the word "allowed"

i understand the federal government's side of things, but from a personal perspective i think the confederacy was on the right side of things

>>138876219

>Lets symbolize a war by building statues of the losing side

Fucking stupid. Most if not all of the statues were literally a rally cry for white supremacy. The majority of them were erected during the height of Jim Crow and the Civil Rights era.

>>138899283

btw there are many ways to react to a threat, a strong defensive military is one of them

aggression isn't always the right move, and the war could have been avoided

i'm aware of the potential complications, but that doesn't mean all options are erased and you have to be the aggressor

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>>138899283
If you can vote in, you can vote out.

Today, the only rogue "seceded" zone in the US is DC. You'd complain about California potentially, maybe, possibly being annexed, meanwhile your federal government sells secrets to China and leverages American land as collateral for debts. Wake up fuckwit.

>>138884020
Morality is not subjective. It just goes to show that the Left like you, think sexual liberation which is evil in its purest forms is intelligent when it does harm on not only yourself but others. Your so goddamn caught up in your own iniquity and self delusion you simply dismiss any argument against what you believe. Again you are a menace to society any society and degenerate. You'll catch aids or heart disease one day. Which will rid the earth of a little less disease and scum.

>>138873369
Despite MLK's good words, he was homophobic, a plagiarist, a woman-beater, and an adulterer. Those types of values do not represent out current society.

Despite the noble cause of John Brown, his means were violent domestic terror, instead of the legal route laid out by the Constitution. Does honoring John Brown today mean we celebrate violent terrorism against federal authorities and the trampling of the rule of law?

Many of those Confederate leaders were veterans of prior wars the US engaged in, their actions were not limited to the CSA.

>>138880504

The statues were built mainly in the 1940s and 60s. There was no honor, they were literally erected as fuck yous to black and brown people.

>>138900251
your butthurt is erecting me, nigger

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>>138900251
America has always been pro-white. Lincoln wanted blacks to be second class citizens if they didn't return to Africa.

>literally
No, Lee was not "literally" a rally cry for white "supremacy" you petulant cunt.

>>138900794

morality is subjective, there's no objectivity there it's why morality is so varied based on perspective

of course people have their bias towards their own perspectives and if your morals come from indoctrination you may feel as though they're objective but that's just not reality

sexual liberation isn't intelligent or unintelligent, it's just a good time, and it doesn't necessarily cause any harm

last guy i had sex was clearly having a good time and wasn't harmed, i have no stds

i'm not doing anything my gf would have an issue with

i'm not particularly promiscuous and so on

everyone dies eventually, you and me will both die no matter how much you elevate yourself above me morally

i live my life as i see fit, and if that makes me a degenerate oh well

i'm far less likely to get heart disease than your average american though, i'm not fat and i eat healthy 90% of the time and so on

as for hiv that's what protection is for or you know, knowing who you're having sex with

>>138900251
It was to honor the people who fought for the CSA and to bring attention to the fact that the federal government was overstepping their legal bounds once again, (some were built around the time the federal government reconstruction-era dick was being removed from the south's ass and it was more permitted to honor the CSA. Not all of it was muh white power).

As much as you may support the outcome of the Civil Rights movement, it was not the legal authority of the federal government to force and enforce those terms. The Bill of Rights was to protect the member states from the governing body of the Union deciding to seize more power than they were entitled to, they were only later applied to the states during the Civil Rights movement because the fed said so, the people who were not supposed to have that authority in the first place.

>>138900846

mlk was a pacifist pussy, malcolm x was a much better leader if you're going to talk about civil rights

sometimes people need to be like john brown to achieve great things that pacifism doesn't achieve (especially not on its own)

the only reason people are taught to value pacifism over shit that actually accomplishes something is because pacifism is easier for those in power to deal with so it's a nicer value to instill to keep people complacent

>>138901675

Not him, dickhead. The statue itself. Why else would they decide to erect confederate monuments right at the height of Jim Crow and the civil rights movement?

>>138901785
Never be accepted in mainstream populations. Enjoy being a minority. You'll always be on outside no matter how gay your agenda/pride is. Know you will always be excluded!!
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
Project as much filth as you want. Internally you are dead. You reach out for sympathy in the dredges of the internet to look for solace and there is none. Muh rights, fuck you and your rights. You probably support pedophilia bc you are a faggot ! You probably got molested as a pre teen and bc your so fucked up from it and seek normalcy now try to normalize your hedonism. You are a plague on this earth, a virus, like all viruses you die out after you run your course.

>>138901785
Morality is based in Risk Management, safety, economics, finance, health the overall good which then becomes law.
You are immoral and degenerate scum. You are evil with no honor or duty to yourself or others.

>>138873369
well.. if the idea is that you don't want the blacks to suffer then yes.

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>>138902233
Ignorant baboon.The same reasons whole counties and towns were named after Lee after the civil war.

>>138902158
You're missing my point. Statues of the CSA, Columbus, and the Founding Fathers are being vandalized and torn down because *something some people right now in this very moment see as triggering or mean or etc...* and because, 'they represent values and actions that have no place in our current society'. Regardless of anything and everything else, these are the only justifications necessary apparently.

So, in the spirit of the current movements, those are two other examples of the same thing. A dishonest homophobe and a domestic terrorist.

The residents of San Francisco used to give bounties for Indian scalps and the worst genocide in America was committed against the native Americans.

San Francisco is a monument to genocide.

Bet leftists would never buy that argument.

>>138902678

i don't really care much about being accepted as long as i'm not bothered it's fine

i don't accept plenty about mainstream society so why should i care if it accepts me?

if i cared about acceptance i could just put on a show and hide myself, i don't because it's not important to me

you can think i'm dead inside for enjoying sex and such, but i see things differently than you and just think you're being prudish and dramatic

where have i reached out for sympathy exactly? i don't feel like i need it for anything

i don't support pedophilia, being bisexual has nothing to do with pedophilia

i have sex with consenting adults and think pedophiles should be shot

hedonistic tendencies are normal, that's why so many people have them and why so many people who deny them live in a state of repression

>>138903782
I do it for the lulz nigger. Thanks for the reaction.

>>138903017

yeah because drinking alcohol and smoking weed is evil, being bisexual without being promiscuous is evil

because i've had sex with more than one person in my life and enjoy the occasional threesome i'm evil

stop being so uptight

i do a lot for my gf, and there are others in my life who find my presence necessary so good enough

many laws shouldn't even be laws and morality isn't absolute regardless of what's behind its design

>>138903272

i see nothing wrong with that though, it only makes sense given their stance to take that course of action

we're heading towards another civil war, and it's a proper move to make

there's a reason that strategy is employed over and over again

that all being said i think left and right have a common enemy and revolution is the better choice, but even then domestic terrorism is necessary isn't it? gets points across

>>138904509

you're welcome, i'm bored and have time to kill so thanks for giving me something to do for a minute

>>138903017

btw yes i've done other drugs, but i'm off them currently and avoiding them so they don't count

i quit heroin, and i'm not looking to head back there

so you're pretty much just going on about weed and alcohol as if they're pure evil, which is ridiculous

>>138873840

They'll feel that way with or without statues.

It's completely irrelevant to their self-loathing.

>>138873369
>slave enthusiast

i like that...

>>138904545
>i see nothing wrong with that though,
You see nothing wrong with what specifically?
>it only makes sense given their stance to take that course of action
What makes sense? And given whose stance? What course of action?

>we're heading towards another civil war, and it's a proper move to make
>there's a reason that strategy is employed over and over again
What move and what strategy are you referring to?

>that all being said i think left and right have a common enemy
Who?

>>138876897
Slavery is still going on in Africa and didn't get addressed again until 2007 by the UN. They are still finding ways around the laws and it is tolerated by African governments.

Umm oh sweetie honey it was about slavery, sorry sugar pie y'all'r racist

>>138877972
>Using that logic we should tear the constitution up since those who wrote it owned slaves
Don't tempt them. Leftists will tear it up

>>138873369

Here is an idea, how do we equate all of the stars on Hollywood blvd to be ripped up like Confederate statues? It would make actors flip out to have their legacy tarnished.

Something like #starsandstatues or #destroyraciststars

>>138906575

we were talking about destroying statues yeah?

so... i see nothing wrong with destroying those statues, it's a good strategy and it's a good first move (it's also one that's been used throughout history)

the side destroying the statues made a good move by doing it because it makes a point, hits home, but is ultimately victimless on a physical level while still wounding people deeply and getting them riled up

because the reality of the situation is currently left vs right i can give credit where it's due in spite of thinking both sides should be turning to their common enemy

the common enemy being the government, there's a reason why the same underlying agenda plays out regardless of who's in the white house

and it's the underlying agenda that strips more and more power from all citizens while giving the small group of people up at the top more power while they stay distracted by minor issues that are ultimately just plays on their passions to rile them up and keep them scapegoating each other

corruption runs rampant, read the declaration of independence then think about the real meaning of the second amendment

it's checks and balances against largescale corruption that citizens are responsible for if they want a proper government

just how it is,and right and left are victims in it together

>>138907163

that'd be beautiful, someone should go do that, those should be trashed right along with the statues