Do communists actually want anything other than killing a bunch

>>138396824
>but their twice as retarded
They're

retard

>>138396824
We don't want to kill you, things would be much easier if you joined the ranks of the proletariat. But if you don't, well...you can't make an omelette without breaking some eggs.

>>138396824
>Do communists actually want anything other than killing a bunch of people in "le ebin revolution"?

Imagine the dude from the big lebowski
Just kind of carefree strolling through life doing whatever.
Walk into the grocery store and grab a gallon of milk and drink it there.

Now imagine, rather than the grocery store, it's actually somebody's house that they walk into and take whatever they want. But it's okay because fuck em, they have too much stuff anyway.

That's basically how most communists see themselves.

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>>138397238
Yes, that's precisely what marxism is. The act of drinking another man's milk.
>this is what /pol/tards actually believe

>>138397169
Lets not even address the shitty system you think will work this time. Literally just talking about how most you faggots are probably just fucking bored and think getting free reign to anyone and everyone around you would make your life more interesting. Admittedly it would, but its a pretty shit solution like most communist line of thinking.

Communists want capital to be the ownership of all so no one can make riches through exploitation.

>>138396824
you can't get any more retarded than ancoms, even if you're a tankie

>>138397453
Capitalists will drink your milkshake. Communists will drink the milk. Totally evil both of them.

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>>138397643
>let's not talks about the thing we're criticizing here
lel

>>138397169
You're forgetting that after the cultural Marxism cat has been released that there is no chance if acceptance into the proletariat if you're tall, attractive and intelligent, or any combination of each.

If you want anything more than legislative equality, being equal under the law, you want dysgenics. People who aren't beta cunts will continue existing and continue out performing you. We know you can't tolerate this, it hurts your victim narrative.

>>138397725
>Communists want capital to be the ownership of all so no one can make riches through exploitation.

And as a result, no one makes riches at all.

Every time communism has ever been implemented, in the interest of efficiency, every citizen was reduced to a bare survival quality of life.

Nobody is allowed to save up anything, nobody is allowed to have more than they need to live until tomorrow.

>>138397869
Communists will tell you to stop oppressing your neighbors because your cow produces more than his cow

>>138396824

What do they mean too? Liberals are literally the bourgoisie Marx kept ranting about

>>138397169

How are you going to solve that money needs to represent value? It completely invalidates wealth redistribution through money redistribution.

>>138397725
Under communism no one but the very few at the top, whose numbers will be far less than le evil rich people you envy so much, will suffer in squalor with no hope for reprieve.

Communists are fucking scum. Garbage sub-humans.

>>138398112
Because in communist fantasy land, the ideal end goal is that money does not exist, everything is free, and people are just super altruistic and only take exactly what they need.

>>138397956
>cultural marxism
Oh what is that, care to explain it to me?

>>138397869

Capitalism is private ownership, meaning everything is volutarily exchanged. If a capitalist is drinking your milkshake, he has already exchanged it for something you value more.

Communists reason that you value not getting shot more than your milk. They shoot you anyway, it does not matter what actions you take. Stalin had intelligent people executed because if all possible resistance is dumb, it can be handled.

>>138397116
speaking of retard hail brother

>>138398263

Even the smallest experiments show this is retarded. We see this in failed marriages all the time. One works hard, the other is a deadbeat. Friction ensues.

>>138398315
The shift of the classful ideas of Marxism from economic classes, which no longer exists in the the west or has become globalised, ie your underclass are south east Asian sweatshop workers, onto a new definition of demographic hierarchies such that white men are placed where the elite bourgeois were.

In the 80s the Soviets made a sort of obvious discovery, the first world is getting better, socialism has ceased artificially growing the second world and it's very clear there would be no eventual, blameless revolution in the west. The wall falling was the outward expression of this, what are we doing if we know this isn't going go work?

This is when they began to reframe the revolution instead of as economic classes, in which the lower class had technically disappeared when farmers and factory workers became more likely to own goods/use services than white collar workers, so it became about minority groups and other like special groups.

Since everyone is one of either homosexual, female, not European, not Christian or even fat, they then use this resentment, especially when they directly hate the other that they feel can't understand their pain, to promote violence and aggression towards the other. This has the two fold purpose of legitimising aggression to those who make you feel bad as well as causing very real, actually somewhat deserved, hatred from the victim of resentment that's been othered.

>>138397453

Explain how it is not a system based on gibs. Why shouldn't there be classes? Why should I be on the same level as some toothless lazy piece of shit?

>>138396824
All bourgeoisie cucks get the bullet.

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>>138397169
There is nothing the working man, aka proletariat, hates more than he hates a whining, college-educated little communist bitch. The proletariat is on our side, he loves his country and his family, which is why he voted Brexit and Trump.

>>138398424
>If a capitalist is drinking your milkshake, he has already exchanged it for something you value more.

what? that's not how economics works. by definition that's not your milkshake, only if you are the owner of a business selling milkshakes. also you do not choose voluntarily that the owner can take a large portion of your wage away

>>138397873
Because I'm talking entirely about the revolution part. How many communists are more or less just interested in killing people? It's a revolution, it requires blood, people have to die, how many of you fucks are really only interested in murdering people and as for everything else could care less?

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Antifa commies are controlled opposition, complete useful idiots funded by the satanic manipulators in power, same story with the alt Reich, a false dichotomy to keep humanity enslaved. To anyone in this thread who might be impressionable and buy into some of these sick beliefs, I would reccomend reading up on some David Icke and listening to Mark Passio's podcast, everything will start to become crystal clear

>>138398847
huh? You're projecting a lot there buddy.

I know because my family illegally immigrated to the U.S you don't know shit about the proletariat

>>138398924

>man I really want communism to work one day, Rage Against the Machine is such a good band dude

>>138399353
>I cant bring a substantial argument to this communist so i'm going to make fun of him personally

>>138399553

What substantial arguments could I possibly bring up that haven't already been in the academic sphere for a long time? Deep down you know communism is bullshit. It hasn't worked, it will never work, and your beaner ass needs to take that shit back down to beanerland.

>>138398924
>you do not choose voluntarily that the owner can take a large portion of your wage away

Yes you do.
That's called opportunity cost.
You are """paying""" the business owner the opportunity cost of the full value of your labor, and in exchange, you don't have to deal with the risks of running your own business

Don't like that? Start your own business and work for yourself.

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>>138399681
okay i will

>>138398604
>>138397116

Faggots.

>>138399779
>this is what a Mexican utopia looks like

>>138399349
>illegally immigrated to the U.S
That makes you an invader, not a prole. You're the sort of scum who dismisses the other underclasses (hillbillies, chavs, white trash) for holding the 'wrong' opinion, while claiming to represent the masses. You don't represent shit.

>>138399981
You understand the Mexican government has bombed them, the paramilitaries have burned their infrastructure and they live in the shittiest part of mexico on the order of the Mexican government

>>138400082
Live a little in mexico then tell me how the proletariat are doing.

also do my people a favor and get rid of your stupid fucking imperialist NAFTA

>>138400282
>yfw communists are so deplorable that even the cartels cant stand them

>>138398661
A common quest of the left is basically to raise what society deems to be an accepatable level of violence. Partly because it's a spectale and leftys need a society of the spectacle if the pigs are dancing their asses off.

>>138398661
>the shift of the classful ideas of Marxism from economic classes
So it can't be marxism then. Marxism is purely concerned with historical materialism.

>onto a new definition of demographic hierarchies such that white men are placed where the elite bourgeois were.
Marxism is strictly opposed to identity politics. To deprive the worker of his class consciousness is literally antithetic to marxism.

>In the 80s
So cultural marxism must have only been around for 30 years? Therefore that means the 60s degeneracy had nothing to do with it, right? I'm just trying to follow your argument.

>Since everyone is one of either homosexual, female, not European, not Christian or even fat, they then use this resentment, especially when they directly hate the other that they feel can't understand their pain, to promote violence and aggression towards the other.
Ok ok, so let's assume for a moment cultural marxism "made sense" as you described it...how exactly is spooking the working class with idpol memes going to help them rally together to seize the means of production from the ruling class? But maybe that's just my nogging jogging too far...

>>138400475
>imperialist NAFTA

>free trade is imperialism

Do you communists go to a class on calling things the opposite of what they really are?

>freedom is slavery
>ignorance is strength
>not starving to death is oppression

>>138400521
>mfw the Mexican utopia still looks better than Detroit

have fun with your niggers :)

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>be faithful red army soldier
>get captured
>stay loyal to the party
>get freed from captivity, then summarily executed by the same people you dedicated yourself to
This is the fate that awaits you, commies. This is the reward for your "revolutionary spirit".

>>138396824
All commies want is to murder people richer than them and take their money.

>>138400721
>using the word nigger
I thought commies treated everyone equally?

>>138396824
This is why I'm a centrist who think all extremists should be treated as terrorists.

>>138396824
No, they just want to kill. Look at Pol Pot, when he took over Cambodia, he extended an invitation to the Cambodians that had either left or fled Cambodia to the west, when they arrived they were rounded up and either tortured and killed or just killed. Communists are fucking mental.

>>138400680
they changed an article in the Mexican constitution.

article 27 to be exact depicting that the resources and minerals belong to the mexican people.

Nafta directly was against mexico

imagine people changing your constitution im certain you would go ape shit over that

I think were to a tipping point where all it would take to start a real race war would be a couple of really good trolls.

Write some anti white people shit on something public in some major cities. then maybe something REALLY racist on an MLK statue or something

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>>138400721
>have fun with your niggers :)
>>138400562
>Marxism is strictly opposed to identity politics

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>>138399349

You're lumpenproletariat, Paco, not proletariat.

>>138400475
>My country is shittier than your country, so the experiences of people in your country are invalid
>Literal oppression olympics
I'm sorry we can't all be as poor and stupid as a commie beaner

>>138396824
>Do communists actually want anything other than killing a bunch of people in "le ebin revolution"?
Yes. Robbing them

>>138401102
you know trump wanted to take away nafta right and i wanted that so basically he would make mexico great

reason why i support trump not in the interest of america but in the interest of the people

>>138400562
>>>138398661 (You)
>>the shift of the classful ideas of Marxism from economic classes
>So it can't be marxism then. Marxism is purely concerned with historical materialism.
Materialism here arguably as the privileges people afford others purely for being white men, in which case the reality is "none" because resentful hatred is common in left wing societies. White men are the only oppressed class.

>>onto a new definition of demographic hierarchies such that white men are placed where the elite bourgeois were.
>Marxism is strictly opposed to identity politics. To deprive the worker of his class consciousness is literally antithetic to marxism.
And you're the arbiter of Marxism.. why? Have you heard of Horkheimer, Adorno and Herbert Marcuse? Are you deliberately misread? It's impossible to argue there are Marxist flaws with identity politics, it IS an identity politics of the proletariat.

>>In the 80s
>So cultural marxism must have only been around for 30 years? Therefore that means the 60s degeneracy had nothing to do with it, right? I'm just trying to follow your argument.
The 60s degeneracy opened up an opportunity for Soviets in the 80s who needed people to convince they are oppressed.

>Ok ok, so let's assume for a moment cultural marxism "made sense" as you described it...how exactly is spooking the working class with idpol memes going to help them rally together to seize the means of production from the ruling class? But maybe that's just my nogging jogging too far...
This entire paragraph is devoid of an argument and is completely silly, responding to it would mean losing this argument because it would drag me down.

How long until we can openly hunt commies? Feels like it'll be in the next couple of weeks.

>>138401255
Sorry limey that wasn't my point

>>138397956
This guys makes a good point. Past revolutions were about the proletariat seizing the means of production with the goal of eliminating class. But now we've had decades of marxist analysis on various oppressor/oppresee sub groups, like men/women, white/non-white, cisgender/57 genders, straight/lgbq.

So your revolution will not end with abolishing the rentier class, but will continue until the group at the top of the progressive stack is in power, and all those other groups (male/white/cisgender/straight) are sent to the gulag.

>>138400562
>So cultural marxism must have only been around for 30 years?
I don't think you paid any attention to his point.

>>138397169

Marx said you have to cast aside all that can't adapt, anon.

So yeah, you want then "gone". In practice, that was killing.

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>>138399349
your parents probably fled some third world socialist shithole and here you are trying to recreate the suffering.

>>138401900
> third world socialist shithole and here you are trying to recreate the suffering.

>mexico

people in this thread are calling me a beaner

>>138396824


>Do communists actually want anything other than killing a bunch of people in "le ebin revolution"?

The irony is, one of those people getting killed is themselves.

>>138399349
Disgusting. What gives you any right to try to guide our politics? You probably actively dislike America.
Move to Venezuela cunt.

>>138401612
So keep your commie shite contained to your poor hellhole of a country. We don't need you larping queers prancing about and shitting things up here.

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>>138402016
if you are a beaner the only thing keeping your native country afloat is being the US's diaper

>>138401697
After recognising the underlying motivation of Marxism, which is exactly to cover up and misplace responsibility for mediocrity, it immediately becomes obvious that it's about dysgenics. The goal actually is to hold people back until more deserving people, whoever the Marxists say, are allowed to move forward.

Because people who can gain success will continue existing and striving for success, the Marxist must remove or handicap, sometimes permanently, these people since (especially at our stage of legislative equality) become oppressive purely by existing.

At this stage, of course it's not oppression. You can't blame someone for existing, you can't renounce another right to existence, therefore the Marxist becomes the oppressor and reacts in a not dissimilar way to how a white supremacist reacts, they'll even turn their nose and pretend they're smelling something vile.

>>138402016
I am not, I call all Marxists the same
Weak, pathetic beta who is literally failing at the soft challenges thrown at them. You're under 30 and think you need help with your problems, let alone government help?

>>138402227
Venezuela isn't communist cunt it just nationalized its resources and made more Democratic elections in fact a ot of the political instability in Venezuela is through coups

also i hate america the government but not the people

I believe your veterans need to be taken care of but the only way of doing that is using socialist methods such as state help and more. universal health care and more.

>>138396824
>Do communists actually want anything other than killing a bunch of people in "le ebin revolution"?

see venezuela for what they want. Single party state. government control of capital.

>>138402635
>I am not, I call all Marxists the same
Weak, pathetic beta who is literally failing at the soft challenges thrown at them. You're under 30 and think you need help with your problems, let alone government help?

>and you are so much better right? good for you

>>138402636
>IT'S NOT REAL COMMUNISM
>REAL COMMUNISM HAS NEVER BEEN TRIED
Like clockwork.

>>138402636
>not real communism

>>138402987
Yeah, fuck you, I am. I picked a degree that would contribute real value and kept applying for jobs right through peak feminism, I had resumes "disappears" (I had a friend at the company) was rejected for cultural reasons and was even black listed by recruitment companies, because someone somewhere argued giving me a job wasn't equality. A Marxist somewhere argued to fix the wage gap by redistributing my career to a brown woman.

I am better than you, you piece of shit. So are most people reading this.

>>138402997
dumbass

soviet union was communist
cuba is communist
china is communist
north korea is communist

Venezuela is not communist not because not real communism because it does not fit the criteria of a communist nation

>>138403331
okay have fun with being better than me im certain thats going to matter when your dead

>>138401438
>>138401438
>Materialism here arguably as the privileges people afford others purely for being white men, in which case the reality is "none" because resentful hatred is common in left wing societies. White men are the only oppressed class.
Made zero sense. I reiterate this simple point to you: Marxism is only concerned with materialism and economics. If it ceases to advocate for a proletarian revolution where the private means of productions are redistributed to the workers, then it cannot be marxism. That's its entire reason to be.

>Adorno, horkheimer, marcuse
Not orthodox marxists, really far in fact. If anything they were huge critics of grand narratives like marxism, consumerism, fascism, etc.

Also they went a lot further than Gramsci (who was still an orthodox marxist) who simply sought to understand how the means and relations of productions influenced culture, in particular high culture, which he thought was being degenerated by rabid consumerism. Adorno and Habermas took it much further and from there was born critical theory, which is so distant from marxism there's no connection in their purpose or their method.

>This entire paragraph is devoid of an argument and is completely silly
Not really. I'm just trying to hammer the point that marxism is about the alienation of the worker from their labor under a capitalist model and how to remedy it. It specifically states that the economic base is the root cause of all social, cultural and political structures. Tackling that 3-headed hydra head-on through "cultural warfare" is a pointless endeavor, whereas seizing the means of production will slay the beast immediately without the resources to support it.

Whichever way, I don't really see how any of this amounts to a conspiracy to destroy the west from within. You got a bunch of people criticizing consumerism and how it erodes high-culture and its traditions. That sounds like the exact opposite of wanting to destroy western culture.

>>138403788
>soviet union was communist
>cuba is communist
>china is communist
>north korea is communist

You can't possibly be saying we've finally found true communism TRUE COMMUNISM AT LONG LAST? Let me guess these places are shitholes and its capitalism fault.

>>138403788
>china is communist
>north korea is communist
pham...

>>138403982
>badly grammatised nihilism
You're 12??

>>138404021
>Made zero sense. I reiterate this simple point to you: Marxism is only concerned with materialism and economics.
Yes, you may dishonestly focus on economics as if their main gripe isn't the gender pay gap. At this stage you know I won't accept that Marxist feminism isn't Marxist.

>the private means of productions are redistributed to the workers, then it cannot be marxism. That's its entire reason to be.
More so owned by one group and not owned by another, in technological societies the means of production are not large machines in factories, continuing this argument under that definition would unfairly advantage you, but in fact any skill or experience.

Therefore redistribution becomes unequal opportunities to provide pathways or roads specifically and exclusively for minorities to gain skill and experience. This has the effect of completely ostracising the privileged group in order to socially engineer away any beliefs that the privileged group is capable of intellectual work.

This is the current means of redistribution and is entirely communist because there's no one besides brainwashed Marxist feminists implementing this, at least half the time though civil disobedience. HR are giving inferior workers jobs beyond their skill set to redistribute careers away from white men and to hurt the companies they work for. It's absolutely anti capitalist.

>>Adorno, horkheimer, marcuse
>Not orthodox marxists, really far in fact. If anything they were huge critics of grand narratives like marxism, consumerism, fascism, etc.
Not pure enough for you? Not a true enough Scotsman?

>>138396824

Totalitarians are just psychologically damaged.

https://www.chrisshepherd.org/on-the-totalitarian-personality/

>>138397169

You are not, have not been, and never will be a member of your precious proletariat. In Communist revolutions middle class people like you are lynched in the streets and your possessions seized by masses of your less-well off 'comrades'.

>>138406185
are you calling him a capitalist? bit rude

>>138404517
>me im defending communism

> TRUE COMMUNISM AT LONG LAST? Let me guess these places are shitholes and its capitalism fault.

hurr derr

how the fuck is Cuba and DPRK still around even with the sanctions imposed by the U.S

40 lashes & 12 months hard labor for OP! Anyhow--- YES! We will put you Trumptard Neo-Nazi Capitalist pigs in re-education camps! DEAD FUCKING SERIOUS!

>>138406475
Why can't communism compete?

>>138406930
please try to run a island nation under capitalism with sanctions from the U.S and let me know how that tuned out

>>138405379
>Yes, you may dishonestly focus on economics
I'm really not. Literally ALL the revolutionary socialist states explicit it. Their main purpose is to establish worker ownership of means of production through a proletarian uprising.

>Not pure enough for you? Not a true enough Scotsman?
Well, they're basically the autists of communism. What they research is interesting but in reality of very little use to class warfare. We already know the capitalists shape popular culture and use bourgeois propaganda to discourage the workers from joining any proletarian movements.

And like I said, they literally did nothing wrong. Adorno wrote an entire book on how capitalists, being naturally motivated by profit, would hold nothing sacred and instead of protecting culture, would leave it vulnerable to the corrupting influence of the free-market which would vulgarize and debase it of any real meaning. His entire ethos was precisely the opposite of what you say, he actually wanted to protect western culture.

Still doesn't sound like a conspiracy to me.

>>138407110
Didn't answer the question.

>>138405379
>you're 12????

yep best comeback good job sir i shall proceed to end myself

>>138407335
That would be preferable.

>>138406930
it really can a good look is with Thomas Sankara who was on the way of making his country free from imperialist control.
he was later killed in a coup funded by the french

>>138407335
No, my response was that I won't respond seriously to postmodern absurdity.

>>138407137
>autists of communism
Still of communism

Marxist showing once again how hypocritical they towards people with genuine problems, there's a reason you'd love to meme that blacks are more oppressed the autistic people because the former can be used for violence and adult autistic people do not do as well.

Your entire ideology is purely self serving, it's what makes it evil.

>hold nothing sacred and instead of protecting culture
Which is why he promoted critical theory and postmodernism, both of which are designed to be purely critical of western culture and to cripple western art to lower its standards and redistribute art careers to untalented minorities who struggle with western artistic conventions, techniques and skills. By legitimising their art you allow them to produce "values through art, accessibly.

Even art has been attacked by Marxists but once again
>create problems with capitalism
>claim those problems were inherent
Transparent and obvious, without ugliness being fashionable people are drawn to the ordered chaos that is highly intellectual art, the kind that can take decades of practice.

>>138397169
I'll enjoy holding a blowtorch on your face, communist rat.

>>138396824
All forms of idealistic utopias ultimately result in the same kind of failure (lots of violence, food shortage, etc.).

Also, communism is inherently fascistic. You cannot get people to voluntarily give up trading and private property. To do so requires force (so it is no longer for the people, but against the people), which requires a special group which has a monopoly of power and claims the right to use force. You wind up with the same groups, the proletariat, the oppressive government, and the bourgeoisie no matter what kind of system you have.

>>138408716
where did you get this view? was it from a molymeme video or something similar or did you develop this theory by yourself?

>>138408140
>both of which are designed to be purely critical of western culture and to cripple western art
lel no. I already explained. Adorno's critical theory was to critique POPULAR culture which is corrupted and being devalued by capitalism in its eternal pursuit of profit. HIGH culture, even bourgeois art, music or literature was never something he attacked.

Then you had retards who missed the entire point, and instead of critiquing how capitalist corrupts culture, they made it about identity politics. About how FUCKING WHITE MALES corrupt culture, which misses the entire fucking point. So yes, if you want to stretch the "cultural marxist" conspiracy to the max I suppose you could blame 80s and 90s retarded bourgeois kids who completely are misusing a critical apparatus developed by an eccentric marxist in order to criticize how capitalism is ruining everything it touches, even our art and other expressions of thought.

It's still not a conspiracy by a secret cabal of marxist-agents seeking to impose worldwide communism.

>Even art has been attacked by Marxists but once again
I can guarantee you 99% of people who call themselves marxists have never read Marx. Or Engels. Or Lenin. Or Kautsky. Or Trotsky. Or Mao. Or Stalin. You get the point.

All they probably know is that marx wanted "poor people to rebel", but they couldn't even explain you why or how.

Look I'm not trying to be disingenuous here. Marxists and communists HAVE indeed criticized capitalist culture in the past, but that was always from a class conscious perspective to motivate the workers to unite and overthrow the capitalists.

Why would marxists seek to overthrow the current system and culture if we're already in charge? If anything we should be doing anything to preserve it. That's clearly not the case, is it.

You think it's "cultural marxists" when in reality it's the neoliberal elite who's pumping the entire population full of race and gender spooks to keep us divided.

>>138409477
So you believe in idealistic utopias? Oops, looks like you're the stupid one.

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>>138398667
To understand requires a higher state of consciousness.

>>138397169
>make an omelette

And yet every time you follow this recipe, you burn the house down instead

>>138410480
Marxism is materialist which is the polar opposite to idealism

so no

>>138410753
>he fell for the 50 gorillion meme

>>138410797
First you argue in favor of idealism, then when I point out that's unreasonable, you distance yourself from idealism by creating a false hypothetical where humans don't rely on materials at all? What a cancerous argument that doesn't apply to reality.

Of course that's how it is. They just want to kill a bunch of people, that's why they became communists. It's the same for national socialists by the way, go take a look at 8ch, they want to execute everyone.

>>138411000
Fair enough, also checked. But without using meme arrows, how do you account for why people kept on dying? If I'm ignorant of something, enlighten me.

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>>138396824

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>>138396824

>>138396824

Liberalism is a sick and brainless cult. They'd walk barefoot into hell if their leaders merely suggested it. They can't think for themselves so they have to have others tell them what to believe and what to stand against.

It's fucking insane.

>>138411017
>First you argue in favor of idealism
what? i asked you where you got your infantile understanding of communism from. I see similar a lot on this website and I am interested to know if the youtube alt-right community is making you believe it or if you are actually just that stupid.

>you distance yourself from idealism by creating a false hypothetical where humans don't rely on materials at all
wtf no literally the opposite. why would you assume materialism means "materials do no not matter"?

>>138411221
To which country in which period of time are you referring to?

>>138411221
people die under capitalism too

>>138411428
>hes asking when a communist country had famines and genocides
All them you stupid commie, all of them have this.

Make History join the movement

>>138407179

>>138407179

>>138407179

>>138407179

>>138411529
Cuba

>>138411428
I mean that revolutions seem to follow this pattern - revolutionaries with the best of intentions (or close enough) feel forced down an extreme path due to few other options and then events spiral out of control. It happened with the French Revolution, the Soviets, and in other times and places.

Obviously some of what happened will be due to circumstances particular to those countries and times, and it's not inherent in communist systems. But given that this seems to happen in most revolutions anyway, how can it be avoided in the event of a successful communist revolution?

>>138411504
Yeah, but no one's inviting me to join a capitalist revolution

>>138411741
>Cubans had to resort to eating anything they could find.[7] In the Havana zoo, "The peacocks, the buffalo and even the rhea" were reported to have disappeared.[8] Cuban domestic cats disappeared from streets to dinner tables.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Period
>no famines in Cuba you fucking bourgeoisie
>this is your brain on communism

>>138411275

>seek peace through violence

Idk how the fuck someone could say that with a straight face, it's like r/latestagecapitalism's "you will be banned for being a bigot, misogynist, or rasist/socialism is inherently inclusive"

>>138411994
Terms that cause cognitive dissonance if believed: Peace through violence, clean coal, and antifascist.

>>138411339
I'm the stupid one supposedly, yet you can't even follow the conversation properly?

You have yet to actually formulate any kind of intelligent rebuttal against what I said. Just asserting something is wrong with it and asking where I got the ideas from, as if that matters. You're probably too stupid to understand why those things aren't actual criticisms of what I said though.

>>138411994

Sorry Nazi, but reality has a liberal bias, we're team good guys, we're house gryffindor. Lets all just drink a pepsi and go to sleep.

>>138411504
Not real capitalism

>>138397169
But you can make a mocha frappe latte...hold the whipped cream plz

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>>138400721
Aaaaaaand there it is

>>138396824
Communists like that are basically the left version of the people here who yearn for WW3. They have nothing to live for, no goals with nowhere to go, so might as well just fuck shit up and get killed while being morally bolstered as a hero by the media and believing you helped rid the world of Nazis.

>>138411790
Well I think the biggest cause for deaths is due to the sheer number and power of the people that will oppose a socialist revolution, mainly because they will be losing their power and influence over the working class and will be reduced to that class themselves. When Lenin took power in 1917 for example he was opposed by all the pro capitalists in russia who were supported by the UK, France, USA, Japan and other capitalist nations, thats bound to lead to millions of deaths that will of course be attributed to socialism just being a murderous ideology. For many years even after the civil war the remaining capitalists are going to be scheming to retain power which is what necessitates the "purges".

I would also like to point out that the famine that occurred in the 20's were a combination of ww1, the civil war and the instability it brought about and also the need for the USSR to rapidly industrialise in order to defend itself, which it achieved.

It's pretty incredible what the USSR managed to achieve under the circumstances when you think about it, almost miraculous. They went from an unindustrialised country to being able to beat to compete with the USA and the entire "free world" until they were undone by the revisionist policies of Gorbachev and Yeltsin.

So in conclusion I argue that bloodshed and violence is inevitable following a revolution primarily due to the sheer number of very rich and very powerful people that are losing their wealth and power and not taking that lightly.

>>138411000
At the most conservative estimate, communism has killed at least 12 million people.

Pretty good averages for <people killed>/<times tried> but let's give freedom a chance (minarchy/anarchy). You can achieve communism through voluntary means, there's just economic incentives to lobby the government, even under socialism as communism (what company wouldn't kill to be the sole provider of a certain good?)

>>138411960
I looked at the sources for this claim and it linked to the strongly neoliberal The Economist which itself seems to be based purely on speculation and quite probably made up.

Regardless, if this horrific famine did actually occur to the state the neoliberals claim it did it was clearly as a result of the fall of the USSR as stated on wikipedia.

The same nearly happened to the UK in WW2 when we lost shipping due to u-boats, it's not really related to socialism it's just a consequence of relying on imports and then struggling to adapt when that source disappears.

>>138412219
You said communism was idealist and I replied saying that Marxism is explicitly anti-idealist and instead materialist.

I don't think you understand what idealism as a philosophical notion is.

>>138413230
The problem with communist enclaves in a libertarian society is they don't leave people the fuck alone because they want their free shit.

>>138397169
How can you fuckers be the proletariat if you've never worked a fucking day in your life?
You're not machinists, miners, carpenters, and farmers...you're a bunch of fucking pussies with part-time service jobs.
Waiting tables, serving coffee, and going to school doesn't make you a "worker," those are jobs for bitches.

>>138413184
the famines were caused by the slaughtering of the Kulaks, and you know that, and are simply omiting it because you think others don't know their history.

the communists rolled into farming villiage after village, killed the successful farmers (and making/inticing the shit villagers to do it) and repeat, until nearly anyone with an ounce of success at farming is deposed and replaced with villiage idiots.

then they took the ones they didn't kill and dumped them in Siberia, where they died, and then the farmers back at the viliage had shit hauls and many people died from starvation because of it.

and there was no "submit to communism" or any other such "1st chance", they simply did it.

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>>138413184
>take something that isn't yours
>purge the people you steal from
>communism isn't a genocidal movement

>>138401697
That's delicious. Do you put cannellilni or kidney beans in your gulags?

>>138413230
>communism has killed at least 12 million people
That's a pretty abstract thing to say. Communism is merely an ideology, you should think more in terms of how people have died trying to achieve communism rather than just blaming the pursuit altogether.

>let's give freedom a chance (minarchy/anarchy)
Now that's idealism. Let's just get rid of the state straight away and hope that nobody invades us or that private militias do not immediately form.

Obviously working anarchy would be better than having a state with an army and police and stuff but it just isn't feasible right away, not until the society becomes post-scarcity.

>You can achieve communism through voluntary means
Yes as communists we are voluntarily trying to achieve communism; nobody is paying us to do it.

>there's just economic incentives to lobby the government, even under socialism as communism (what company wouldn't kill to be the sole provider of a certain good?)
I don't understand what this means. "even under socialism as communism"?

>>138413954
The problem would be that the "libertarians" would want the resources from the communists and would take them by force as they have tried throughout history. A successful communist nation would also represent a major threat to the rich and powerful within a libertarian society giving them further cause to disrupt the communists.

>>138413184
they were undone because by that point, everyone was fucking starving to death and they were an absolute joke of a nation.

no one worked hard, no one did anything, because there was no reward for any of it, everyone put in the bare minimum to not be carried away by stasi.

"You'll pretend to pay me, and I'll pretend to work" was the national catchphrase.

>>138398667
You shouldn't. You're going to be on the six feet under level.

>>138414665
you'll voluntarily be given bullets, soon too, free of charge, and if you think surrendering will work, you'll be given a free ride on the helicopter.

voluntarily.. by force.

>>138396824
The (((goal))) of communism is anarchy. I don't know how no one knows this

>>138408716
Fascistic =/= totalitarian

>>138414939
That would be a violation of the NAP.

>>138397169
I AM the proletariat you fucking faggot

>>138414665
>there's just economic incentives to lobby the government, even under socialism as communism (what company wouldn't kill to be the sole provider of a certain good?)

I think, what he means is a capitalist company would want to fill the void in a niche market above all others... problem is, no capitalist company, no power struggle.

>>138415025
Commies aren't people.

>>138412505
Now you're just taking the piss.

>>138414665
Incorrect. Without a voluntary agreement "taking resources" would violate NAP.

>>138414525
The kulaks hoarded grain which was needed for the people living in the growing cities because they did not want to be relegated to the same class as the peasants that had previously worked for them.

"hurr they just killed them because they're genocidal maniacs" is pure propaganda. Why the fuck would they kill off successful farmers and replace them with idiots "just because" when they needed to rapidly industrialise and food was such a big issue?

>>138414800
They wasted all their money putting down the white army rebellion... should have put the white army down with the good old emperor, those imperialist fuckers

>>138415036
You have nothing to lose but your chains.

the working class hates communism, we'd rather toil away from some capitalist in poor, but relatively high livings under the rich fat cats over even the most well meaning communists.

no one will want to kill you more than the poor, and 90% of communists aren't even working poor.

>>138414917
Confiscate from the rich, we're all a little richer

>>138414542
>take something that isn't yours
Yes that is how things become yours. You don't just magic it out of thin air. The same way capitalist countries are extracting resources out of Africa and Asia right now.

>purge the people you steal from
When they attempt to violently reclaim it yes.

>communism isn't a genocidal movement
hurr they should just die and not fight back

>>138414974
Untrue. The goal of communism is the lack of capitalism and a group effort for the greater good.

>>138415371
this is the propaganda that they used to kill the Kulaks.

and "why" would they? because they did, it doesn't matter why, it was stupid, they did it.

so was the Chinese "Four Pest Plan" and their idiotic "everyone in China needs to make steel right now" plan.

it was stupid, and they did it, saying "oh they'd never do that, because it was stupid", well shit happens.

the Bolshevik's really liked killing people they thought were Bourgeois, and would do anything to do so.

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>>138396824
Join us /pol/

>>138397725
Worked really well. Over a billion killed due to communism. For what? Having every aspect of your life controlled by the state?
There will be zero free time. Zero choice. There will be no aspect of life that isn't monitored. And millions will die each year. There will be quotas on how mamy deaths; a minimum will have to be culled each year.
And no more drugs. Every communist regime that has/does exist outlaws drug use and exterminates drug users on their first offense.
And no more homosexuality. That's also a death sentence in communist countries.
No more music except approved music (it'll be classical) so I hope you commies are deleting all you mp3 and mp4 files and getting rid of any vynil or cd's hinding in your house, because that's a death sentence, too. The brother men might have a problem with that one, because they like handing out their demo cd's.
No more movies except for state propaganda films, so no more Harry Potter or whatever stupid shit you fucks watch.
No more books, no more coffee, no more restaraunts...only one type of everything, the state approved type.

You stupid fucks don't know what you're asking for. I hope you have to suffer in Hell for eternity experiencing just the type of communist shithole you want to bring about.

>>138415483
t. boomer

Half of millennials reject capitalism.

>inb4 muh turd position
Fascism is still capitalism.

>>138414665
>I don't understand what this means. "even under socialism as communism"?
A company hates it when there's other companies providing the same service/good. Under socialism/communism, the same company is the sole provider of this service/good. Thus a big company would love socialism as they have a monopoly on a certain service without any small business being able to rise against them.

>>138415130
>>138415130
>larping that hard
lmao, thanks to your retarded ass in charlottesville we are getting more and more members by the day

>>138413184
Fair enough. I'm actually going to sleep now but thanks for replying. I agree that the USSR's achievements were extensive, and also that the odds were stacked against it, but it still seems to me to be too much of a cautionary tale to risk replicating.

It's fair to say that whatever happens, it's likely to cause significant unrest, and this isn't necessarily inherent with socialism / communism, but rather with the violent overthrow of the system. I don't know what the current thinking on it is in communist circles. I can't look at reporting from Syria/Yemen/Ukraine without wondering whether that sort of thing could happen if we took things too far. I don't particularly like corruption or unfairness, but if things all go wrong the men at the top can run off and people like us are stuck here fighting it out for no reason at all.

I think it's also fair to say that revolution and the relaxation of discipline/authority give people license to do as they please, and not all violence is committed by counterrevolutionaries or reactionaries. Antifa in the US and Europe at the moment seem to be primarily negative movements, and while they might not represent communists, aren't you concerned that in any society undergoing a potentially violent transition to communism they could end up wielding too much power?

Anyway, I'm off now, have fun debating with everyone. Whatever divides us, we're all arguing with one another at 3:30 in the morning and we'll all be back tomorrow

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>>138414800
Pretty crazy how a country that did nothing and killed all its inhabitants became the second largest economy in the world and was locked in an arms race and space race with the United States and had influence over billions of people.

>>138415371
Agreed, nationalist propaganda

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>>138396824
>Do communists actually want anything other than killing a bunch of people in "le ebin revolution"?


You are retarded. Non-Zionist communists want to free themselves from pseudo-slavery to the rich bankers/capitalists who use wage slavery and corporate monopolies to shoe-horn everyone into their parasitic clutches.

The ones who die during the revolution are said rich bankers/capitalists.

>>138414800
>they were undone because by that point, everyone was fucking starving to death and they were an absolute joke of a nation.

1970's/80's Soviet Russia actually had a standard of living comparable to that of the US. Keep in mind also that they had less colonies in third world countries and still managed to to out-compete the US/Europe in many fields.

Corporate controlled western Media will spew out an endless wave of propaganda to tell you otherwise however, because they don't want the "filthy peasants" to be free from their parasitism.

>>138397169
You need to make food using people because there's nothing else to eat. I'm sure someone already said this.

>>138415287
Who is enforcing this NAP?

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>>138415854
Is this ""recovery"" even real? GDP is absolute dogshit at gauging how well a country is doing.

>>138396824

They've contributed the most and largest genocides in human history, of course that's what they want.

>>138415930
except most active Communist are not working poor being sucked dry by the rich, they are middle and upper middle class people, or simply those who do not work whatsoever.

and plenty of their own true believers die, the "Useful Idiots" must be purged once normalization has been reached.

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>>138415930
>that pic

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>>138415483
Try saying the same for the working class in poor as fuck countries in Africa and Asia.

Right now the working classes in most first world countries have a high standard of living(far below what they should have when you compare wage increases to productivity increases) but with automation this will not always be the case.

>>138415930
Agreed, in all

>>138397169
Cringe

>>138415692
You can justify any belief you have of any country by just claiming they are irrational actors that are just crazy, there's really no way to counter this stupid line of reasoning.

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>>138416112
It really isn't. All the wealth left the country thanks to the marvels of the free market. Capitalists will pay.

>>138415986
Obviously not communists because they don't understand property.

>>138416112
GDP is measured by absolute output, not efficiency of output. So just because the soviet union built a lot of large chandeliers who serve very little doesn't mean they actually efficiently provided food and toilet paper for the people.

>>138406475
You're proving that communism is inferior to capitalism in real time.

Marx predicted that capitalism would naturally fall to communism, yet I don't feel very red.

How could Marxist utopias be negatively impacted by the US if they are naturally superior?

Why are communists starving while we're here paying expendable private income for gym memberships to work off the excessive consumption we enjoy. How is this possible comrade?

>>138416432
except most of it was true, as told to us by the survivors.

and the Chinese Stupdity was completely true, I can go on and on and on with Mao's idiotic plans and the plans of this immediate successors.

do you doubt them? they were announced quite loudly, are we going to bring doubt to the Four Pest Plan or their Steel Plan?

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>>138416496
>Says the capitalist who can't even differentiate between private and personal property
Derp

>>138415727
>everything I don't like is capitalism

>Money is the jealous god of Israel, in face of which no other god may exist. Money degrades all the gods of man – and turns them into commodities. Money is the universal self-established value of all things. It has, therefore, robbed the whole world – both the world of men and nature – of its specific value. Money is the estranged essence of man’s work and man’s existence, and this alien essence dominates him, and he worships it.

>The god of the Jews has become secularized and has become the god of the world. The bill of exchange is the real god of the Jew. His god is only an illusory bill of exchange.

t. Marx

>>138416480
Why is he inside the optic?

>>138416179
You're going from the perspective of an American. Your country purged communists more viciously, at home and abroad, than anyone else, and had colossal amount of anti-communist propaganda. Of course your citizens are so brainwash that nobody self-identifies as a communist.

Of course, that doesn't stop them from thinking that communist ideas are good ideas(when not explicitly stated as communist). Or being class conscious, regardless if they are left-wing or right-wing.

>>138397169
>having eggs
You should have no more than me.To the gulag with you

>>138416781
Marx had such an retarded notion of capital.

to be expected from a layabout who bummed off all his friends and spent so long thinking about a class of people he knew nothing about.

>>138416498
No, it measures the amount of MONEY in circulation. Not any sort of real economic output. Mostly thanks to the financial sector, worthless dogshit that it is.

>>138399349
ICE has been contacted, anchor baby.

Have fun telling the Zetas and other drug cartels your communist desires...namely an end to the drug trade that's their bread and butter.
No communist regime allows drug use. Not that there is disposable income in communism, anyway. You get just enough credits to get a loaf of bread to get you through one day. Repeat that process until you drop dead.

Tell your illegal border-jumping parents you want a communist government and see what they say. I bet they won't like the idea of never being able to decide for themselves ever again. They may not ever be allowed to stay man and wife. Uranium doesn't mine itself, and you can't have coed barracks in the gulags.
Try telling your parents you want them to die enslaved to a communist government, you stupid commie fuck.

>>138416480
You know why he's yelling in fear but not dead? Because you put the red dot sight on the wrong way you stupid commie.

can someone explain why communist memeflags are shitposting en masse this past two weeks? Maybe I'm not noticing them beforehand, but it seems, particularly after the protesting, there's a bunch of wannabe marxists talking big shit about a manifesto they read the first two lines of. Are they just advanced chatbots or what?

>>138398924
I gotta agree with the commie here. Don't be a rent seeking-denier

>>138416604
Capitalist propaganda machine, fascist European allies, American empire shitting on poor peoples they controlled with military after quashing their communist revolution.

>>138416604
While Marx predicted it, he was predicting Automated Luxury Communism. When everything is $1/ton due to automation then communism would work. Universal Basic Income will be necessary in the far future. The question is that when everything is $1/ton and everyone is out of work due to machines, should we implement socialism or stick to capitalism?

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>>138416898
>Doesn't know what communism is

>>138417070
Marxism works when no one has to work and everything is automated. Then we get exterminated by the machines we built.

>>138399779
>this is the world communists want to bring about

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>>138416664
Private property, commodification of labor and production for market exchange in a competitive environment with the goal of profit is capitalism.

>>138396824
huh... never thought id agree with (((communists))) about anything.

>>138416953
I think we're arguing the same thing. Just because there's a large amount of output/GDP doesn't mean the majority of the population doesn't go hungry and without toilet paper. So yes, GDP is a silly measurement of the economy.

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>>138416654
Says the person who can't respect human individualism and likes to merge people into a collective so they can blindly accept his dogshit ideology that continues to lie to people who fell for their scam.

>>138400475
Why do you think we're building a fucking wall?
You stay in your shithole country. Make it better, starve, make Mayan sacrifices, hit firecrackers with sledgehammers, fight a bull...why should we fucking care?
That's a whole other fucking country.
Who they fuck should care what happens south of the border?
You can all die for all I care. You're not my problem.

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>>138417157
> communism values nationalism and traditions
youre even pathetic at lying

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>>138396824
and once again extremists BTFO

Time for centrists to take this from here...

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>>138417157
>trusting the state (forever) to have your best interest.

>thinking The State can ever be a univerally, eternally cohesive entity.

>>138397725
prove that workers are being "exploited" and not entering willingly into an agreement in which the employer and employee agree on wages paid for work done.

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>>138398667
>Explain how it is not a system based on gibs

Welfare is a western capitalist invention dipshit.

Non-Zionist communism is about worker control of wealth, where workers can sell their own labor or negotiate effectively with companies to have decent pay/working conditions instead of being payed just enough to survive and being forced to work 14 hours a day in miserable conditions like Victorian London/post-communist China.

Trade Unions are the best example of actual communism.

>>138399349
You are doing more damage than good dipshit, I bet you're a undercover shill for the capitalism judging by how poorly you understand your own ideology.


>Don't like that? Start your own business and work for yourself.

Literally impossible if you aren't rich. A worker being payed minimum wage has no chance of being able to fund/start his own business with the almost non-existent money he has left over after groceries/rent. Especially when the entire market for most goods/services is dominated/cornered by corporate monopolies who snuff out any competitors before they have a chance to rise up and compete with them.

Walk into any grocery store and you'll see what I mean. EVERY product is produced by only a few companies. Coke/Dole/Goya/Nestle exetra are found everywhere in the country. There is no competition, the "free market" doesn't even exist except maybe in the IT sector.

Everything is stratified with a few rich families at the top and everyone working every second of their lives to further said families wealth in a parasitic relationship.

This system can only be brought down via force.

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>>138396824
im just gonna leave this here...

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>>138417533
I'd rather trust the state than any corporation.

>>138416262
I'm sorry you can't handle the truth, Cletus.

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>>138397169
>breaking some eggs.

Dont you mean a few million eggs?

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>>138417818
wew lad

>>138400813
Yep. Remember how fast they turned on Eric Clanton just because he was unlucky enough to attract the ire of an army of autists with a ton of free time?

Fuck his faggot ass, but you gotta feel sorry for him in a way. He made a retarded, life ruining mistake for a bunch of shit heel commies and is rewarded by having them disown him right before he goes to prison for a decade. Him and "liberals get the bullet too" should be enough to keep any sane person from sympathizing with them in any way, shape or form.

>>138397116
>>138398604

> wow you made a spelling/grammar mistake, your entire point is automatically invalidated

Why do you faggots even live

>>138415783
In a competitive system if a company makes a bad product they are supposed to be overtaken by a company that makes a better product and puts the first company out of business or force it to react(cut wages, lay off staff members, bend the rules etc.). The upside of this is that it encourages innovation.

In a nationalised system if the company is producing subpar products the cause can be identified and fixed at root without the need to go through the process of. There's going to be a definite reason for why the product is subpar (inconsiderate safety measures, lack of testing, not enough resources devoted to R&D leading to lack of innovation) and this can be identified and fixed without the need for the company folding and causing absolute chaos. It is the responsibility of the elected leadership of the state to enforce a suitable level of expectation upon the company to ensure it does not stagnate

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>>138417157
>The role of the family unit is preserved by the state

>Leave everything in the hands of people that want to literally starve you to death

Such a faggot you are.

>>138397116
>he fell for the grammar mistake to get bumps and (You)s meme

>>138417814
China abandoned socialism with Deng. And there is nothing wrong with Socialist law.

>>138416179
>except most active Communist are not working poor being sucked dry by the rich, they are middle and upper middle class people

Exactly, because they are smart enough to not be effected by the anti-comminist/pro-capitalist brainwashing that the lower-IQ suckers at the bottom fall for in droves.

Also, you've clearly never met a union tradesman, they are quite aware of what's actually going on.

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>>138396824
Why do you idiots insist you're fighting against literal communists? As in the guys that would resurrect Stalin, put him in power again and then shoot him for not being radical enough.

Do you realize what happened the last time fascists/nazis fought real communists?

>>138396824
You know that psychotic kid who's mother committed suicide and then started getting in fights and biting kids at school? That's antifa. They're mentally ill.

>>138418000
Did you make that meme ball? That is fucking excellent!

>>138417876
Oh yes, let's not forget turning SJWs and liberals into slurry.

>>138415593
Commie says i should give my things or die without fighting...ooohh I totally get it now, sign me up!

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>>138399349
proletariat =/= criminals although most communist societies do end up swamped with criminals and degenerates so I guess your family would fit right in.

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>>138418008
>There's nothing wrong with socialist law

Your gay ass macbook that mommy and daddy paid for will be seized by the state.

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>>138417482
And you think capitalism values nationalism and traditions. Why do you think the corporate establishment is trying to eradicate it, because it's bad for business goy.

>>138417415
Socialism is more individualistic than capitalism.

>>138417533
A state is required under capitalism. A state is also required for the transitional period into communism.

>>138417818
The state has to answer to its people. A corporation only has to answer to it's shareholders.

>>138418093
No, because real Communism hasn't been tried yet.

>>138417818
that's.. really really dumb.

you are utterly ideologically subverted.

>>138418008
>but that wasn't real communism
points out stalin
>ah but you see he abandoned socialism with.. INSERT EXCUSE

>>138417814
Social fascist capitalists???

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>>138417264
He also said this.

Many of his policies were very socialist and greatly helped the German working/middle classes.

>>138417914
and still buttblasted about the wehrmacht and Von Paulus & 6th army extended skiing vacation at Stalingrad.

>>138418283
Personal and private property are 2 different things under socialism.

>>138418295
It sure has and it's awful. Just making a point of what happened the last time it was natsoc vs reds for real.

>>138418270
Do you own factories and large areas of land? If so why the fuck are you here, go do something better porky

>>138418293
Capitalism doesn't require a state.

I can trade goods for money and other goods without a State to monitor everything, it just makes it easier to have a referee.

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>>138397169

>>138418340
>Many of his policies were very socialist

The Germans realized keeping the private industry intact was key to a successful economy. Commies/Bolsheviks just genocide anyone that doesn't suck the dick of the state.

>>138418340
No he didn't. Gregor Strasser said that. And Hitler had Strasser murdered and his brother exiled. Nice try, though.

>>138418395
well it didn't work that way in actual practice.

>>138396824
Rednecks, coal miners in the rust belt and warehouse workers are the proletariat. Do they not understand that they are the bourgeoisie and would be the first to get shot. Turkeys voting for Christmas.

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>>138417264
Yes, capitalist, but also socialist. Hitler had a lot in common with Comrade Sanders as far as economic.

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>>138417157
this is hilariously naive, how many times do you need to see communism attempted and fail to realize what a ridiculously idiotic proposition it is?

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>>138418340
>Many of his policies were very socialist
>gibs to women are socialism

>>138417933
I don't trust the government and elected leadership to identify the exact problems of a company. Our schools are failing and almost half the children in Chicago are illiterate. A government backed school cannot fail and no matter how bad they do the taxpayers are forced to fund it. Elected leadership are stupid in this regard and can turn on your demands at any moment. But in the free market, you can stop giving a certain company money so that they fail to a better system. With the internet home schooling is as easy as ever and if you want your children to have the best education you'd rather teach them yourself than hand them over to government-run schools.

>>138417533

>trusting the "muh free market" (forever) to have your best interest

>thinking capitalism won't eventually cave in on it's self and create giant corporate monopolies which corner the market and maximize profits by paying workers as little as possible resulting in corporate feudalism.

>>138415593
Commie says i should give my things or die without fighting...ooohh I totally get it now, sign me up!

>>138417054
Genocide is acceptable (broken eggs) in my country, but shit tier living in authoritarian elsewheres should be the standard i admire. Because secret fascists did it...

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>>138418447
>I can trade goods for money and other goods without a State to monitor everything
That isn't capitalism, that's basic trade which has existed since the beginning of mankind. Capitalism is the private ownership of means of production which rose in prominence during the Industrial Revolution. You need a State under capitalism to enforce private property rights. Without a state, how are you going to enforce private property rights?

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>>138418423
Just thought you were defending Communism, goy.
As for when people say that seriously, well, gif related.

>>138418293
>A state is also required for the transitional period into communism.
>he fell for the transition period meme
no society has ever reached that. communists are too stupid to realize that once they give everything up and pool all their capital, they don't have anyway of resisting the brutal authoritarian regime that they have entrusted all their property and capital with.

>>138396824
Notice we want them all to go back to Africa, Mexico, India, and Israel. They want to kill people.

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>>138397169
>proletariat

....Is someone else going to tell him or do I have too?

>>138417070
You should study new tech instead of dead religion.

aren't you edgelords always posting about le helicopter rides or some shit?

>>138418845
XD

>>138418755
the market doesn't have my interest, or anyone elses, it isn't an entity or group of ruling elite.

I either make my own money through mutually agreed upon deals for work and products, or I don't.

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>>138418755
Shut up and go back to sucking corporate benis, while treading on the workers.

>>138417380
How about the actual number of people starving?

>>138396824
They want the perks of being high ranking party members but would probably end up starving in a drab commie block, rotting in a gulag or lined up on the lip of a mass grave with the rest of us.

>>138397169
soon, u die

You people who think your communist once they take over they will kill you and tthen you will know.

>>138402636
You hate every free person alive.
If you support communism, you support the enslavement of every human being for the benefit of a handful of people.
Capitalism may not enable everyone to succeed, it was never intended to, but it allows the most amount of people to succeed and it allows everyone, EVERYONE, the choice of how to lead their life. If you work hard, you'll do well. I've worked 90 hours a week most of my life by CHOICE. And I've benefited greatly from it.
Under communism everyone will be FORCED to work as many hours as humanly possible until they die or kill themselves (happens all the time in China) with no benefit. It'll be work or die. And work in job that's not your choice. It will be whatever job that's required. "You're a doctor? Well, we need screws made. Make as many screws as you can and live, make less than that and we kill you and all your family." That's the type of shit that happens in communist countries. They'll make you mine uranium without radiation suits on. They want you to die of cancer because it's one less mouth to feed. They'll put you in buildings that are made of shoddy cancer causing materials, because they won't want you living past your physical prime. Everyone will be a slave of the state. That's what communism is, Hell on Earth for everyone.

>>138419008
>communism, so good you need death camps just to make it work

>>138418293
>Under Socialism and Communism, the means of production are controlled by the workers/citizens.

Isn't the state supposed to seize the means of production for redistribution to people who work themselves to death?

People can't own the means of production, remember? Under gommunism, people can't own anything, dumbass.

Also, where's the food?

>>138418885
this, the State will never give up power once you've given them everything, the only option is another revolt, or the state getting weak and capitulating to another from of government due to fear of revolt coming.

as long as the State is strong they will hold on to your shit with a grip of iron.

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>>138407110
we imposed sanctions because they're not capitalist. End communism, sanctions are lifted.

Fucking spics rushing into our lands and trying to make US feel sorry?

The white man has been pushed too much and too far. 40 years of liberal bullshit will end with your towns burnt to the ground and your women are carrying our bastards.

I can't to watch you squeal and squirm as you're nailed to a cross. Larp all you want, Paco. we're coming.

>>138418648
Capitalist dogma

>>138418501
Look up his economic policies, he allowed private property and economic competition, but also had strong state control and generous welfare/work programs.

He combined the best of capitalism and communism and created something better, all the while removing the Jewish influences that came with Zionist-controlled Bolshevism.

The modern day economies of most Nordic countries are actually partially modeled after his system.

>>138419059
That statistic is hugely inflated by charities. If you lived exactly as a 1930s depression family would, you and your children will never experience true hunger and starvation.

>>138418823
>what is mercantalism
you need to read history newfag, as is the case with most "commies"

>>138418812
Authoritarianism is not communism

>>138418312
>not real communism

>>138418270
Own house, tools, truck, means of securing private wealth that i intend to pass on to my children.

>>138419338
of course it is, its in the far corner of that part of the political spectrum.

someone has to maintain the enforcement of Communism (the State).

I mean what if, people wanted to start trading with each other and owning companies? someone would have to step in and stop them.

some.. authority.. would have to enforce communism.. pretty hard.

>>138419150
Have you read any history. Communists are the dumbest people ive ever met. They think they will be the upper echelon of commies who live good. Lol. You will either be a slave or they will kill you. Pick one.

>>138419338
too bad thats what it always turns into

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>>138419263
>regulations and welfare are socialism
>he combined the best of maintaining private property and abolishing private property
What did he mean by this?

>>138419224
Please refute my points. I want anarchy as much as any communist.

>>138419338
Communism is far left authoritarianism. The fact you don't know this means you're just another bourgeoisie LARPing as a commie.

>>138415724
Now it's a billion? You faggots are ridiculous.

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>>138419176
>Isn't the state supposed to seize the means of production for redistribution to people who work themselves to death?
The workers are.

>People can't own the means of production, remember?
Correct, it's a collective ownership.

>Under gommunism, people can't own anything, dumbass.
Again, a fundamental misunderstanding between personal and private property. Please read Marx so I don't have to do your homework for you.

>Also, where's the food?
Everywhere comrade, USSR had higher caloric consumption than Americans. Enjoy the fruits of communism comrade with us. You will be able to raise a family and have better sex.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/12/opinion/why-women-had-better-sex-under-socialism.html

>>138419224
Every rational person that exists honestly doesn't understand why the fuck you want criminals to run our lives the way they want to.

>>138419620
Archive https://archive.is/cgJtE

>>138419513
He meant you are the most ignorant person on the earth. Id accept anything besides communism. You must be low iq

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>>138419620
>The workers are.

This. Never. Happens. Ever.

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>>138396824

>>138396824
"The meaning of peace is the absence of opposition to socialism" ~Karl Marx

Sort of explains a lot of what you're seeing now in Universities and the Media.

>>138419836
The Media is full of liberals, btw.

>>138419164
I think you've got that backwards, friend. ICO, me, a veteran

>>138397238
But the dude paid for the milk.

>>138419207
Its the magic "transition period" of communism that allows them to say every attempt it "not real communism" because it never made it to this fictitious stage.

In reality everyone starves

>>138419278
2017 Venezuela thooo

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>>138419620
>Everywhere comrade, USSR had higher caloric consumption than Americans. Enjoy the fruits of communism comrade with us. You will be able to raise a family and have better sex.

>Forgets that the USSR had massive famines that led to the starvation of millions of people.

Being this delusional must really hurt you.

>>138419338
My bad, I'll just head over to that self imposed gulag then.

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>>138419769
>Hasn't heard of the Workers' and Peasants' Red Army
Hmm

Reminder that communists are not people and are to be put down like rabid animals.

>>138418648
>I don't trust the government and elected leadership to identify the exact problems of a company.
But you do trust a random CEO that's in charge because he's rich as fuck(which is virtually never because he worked hard and smart)?

>Our schools are failing and almost half the children in Chicago are illiterate
Yes but that's due to a number of reasons, including probable underfunding, rather than education being fundamentally worthless.

Also I'd like to shill here that in the USSR the literacy rate went from ~20-30% to ~80% from 1920 to 1939 which is pretty good when you consider whatever arbitrary number of people were genocide/starved to death.

>Elected leadership are stupid in this regard and can turn on your demands at any moment
True which is why you have accountability and recall functions built in to the system to try and prevent this from happening. Of course you can't do that with a CEO, you're just going to have to cross your fingers that it works out.

>A government backed school cannot fail and no matter how bad they do the taxpayers are forced to fund it
The reasons for bad results are going to extend far beyond the school simply being a bad system. What do you think the specific reasons are for a "bad system"? I would say underfunding and that the students have awful home lives, both of which are a result of the massive inequality caused by capitalism and could be fixed under socialism.
.....

>>138418648
>But in the free market, you can stop giving a certain company money so that they fail to a better system
True, but then you've got schools competing for profits. Education should be about producing upstanding citizens not producing profit.

>With the internet home schooling is as easy as ever and if you want your children to have the best education you'd rather teach them yourself than hand them over to government-run schools
I don't want to get into an argument about homeschooling but it seems way too reliant on the education of the parent originally and won't develop good critical thinking ability.

>>138419620
>Everywhere comrade, USSR had higher caloric consumption than Americans
Was this before or after 10 million starved to death?
>seizing the means of production
How you going to seize them when they've all been offshored to China?

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>>138420112
Russian Empire also had famines. After WW2, socialism stopped famines in the USSR. Other famines were caused by greedy capitalistic Kulaks.

>>138418812
nigga you posted this twice

>>138420062
So potato soup with chicken bullion doesn't work anymore? How fucked is Venezuela at the moment?

>>138420203
>ignores Finnish and Spanish civil war

ebin memory there comrade.

>>138401340
He wanted to trade nafta out for a negotiation that will reduce the US trade deficit. That means he wants to screw mexico more, not less, by shifting part of that deficit onto them.

>>138420112
The one in 1947 was the last one.

>>138418885
this, literally every time this.

>>138401340
And, for the record, I have lived in mexico before. It sucked in ways the population could fix on their own as well as due to money shortages.

My main impression was "this is like the shitty part of LA for thousands of miles". (Mexico City)

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>>138420293
>Was this before or after 10 million starved to death?
See>>138420313
>How you going to seize them when they've all been offshored to China?
If you've allowed enough time for the capitalists to pack up their factories and ship it all overseas during the revolution, well it was a terrible revolution. Besides, that's already happened under capitalism. The US is going through a deindustrialization phase. The US is has also regressed to developing nation status.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-developing-nation-regressing-economy-poverty-donald-trump-mit-economist-peter-temin-a7694726.html

The capitalists are literally stealing the wealth from under your eyes and your egos that are holding onto a failed system have blinded you.

>>138420369
Willful ignorance, or actual mental disorder?

>>138419948
You don't say?

>>138420674
i just call it socialism

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>>138420918
Well, you seemed to imply that liberals aren't mortal enemies of socialism.

>>138420263
>But you do trust a random CEO that's in charge because he's rich as fuck
I don't trust them either, but at least they can be challenged by CEOs of a smaller company.

>Yes but that's due to a number of reasons, including probable underfunding
Fuck you I'm not paying higher property taxes just to pay more money into a failing system.

>Also I'd like to shill here that in the USSR the literacy rate went from ~20-30% to ~80% from 1920 to 1939 which is pretty good when you consider whatever arbitrary number of people were genocide/starved to death.
I'm not talking about the soviet union, I'm sure it worked great for them. I guess Chicago Democrats are so corrupt they're actually lowering literacy rates. Either way the government of Illinois and Chicago has failed spectacularly, if a government solution works then so be it, but I want the free market just to separate us from the elected elites.

>>138420278
>True, but then you've got schools competing for profits. Education should be about producing upstanding citizens not producing profit.
If it's truly fully privatized, the companies that want good workers will pay for students to learn the field they're trying to field. Yes, this wouldn't be higher level thinking but at least students could get jobs.

>>138419959
>I'm a veteran guise which is why communism is awesome
>did I mention I'm a veteran?