Serious discussion: Why did they lose? What was the mistake they

>>138294115
Shouldn't have fucked with Russia or The USA.

>>138294115
Mercy.

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>>138294115
Hitler was a socialist
socialists are loser

>>138294336
personally i think they should have aimed toward peace after France was knocked out. Keeping the status quo was the best option.

Continue running normally for a few years as a shining example to the rest of world.
Assist Mosley as much as possible to secure an ally, Stall for the Italians and Spanish to recover and prepare for war.

Unfortunately, they underestimated how much power the Jews have.

Didn't see any higher ups formally sign surrender papers as Japan did. Did you research the war at all? Know anything about operation paperclip?

>>138294644

Even after they killed 6 million jews, you somehow still blame hitlers downfall on...the jews.

This should show you how deluded you people really are. Please wake up.

>>138294115
expansionist wars of agression was a mistake

>>138294756
They didnt kill 6 million jews retard

Having to bail out Mussolini didn't help at all. Not saying they would have won but Italy wasn't much of an ally and they got bogged down in the balkans and needed help. Italy was barely worth a shit as an ally and Japan was so far away. It was really Germany vs the world. Having any ally and support would have gone along way. Looking at you eternal anglo...

>>138294115

The same mistake america is making now. They fought for control in too many other nations and the world teamed up on them.

This is happening in america too except instead of other nations teaming up on us their colored citizens are immigrating here and fucking us up

Goering deciding to focus bomber efforts on cities and forcing 109s into escorting the bombers from up close rather than letting them fly freely.
An invasion of the UK wouldn't even have been necessary, just mantaining aerial superiority over the southern/midlands UK would have been enough. An invasion of the UK actually would probably have been even more costly than any other western European campaign. Also had the Italians not been as completely fucking incompetent and worthless as they were the Germans would have had a few more months in Russia/Barbarossa would have started earlier and they wouldn't get fucked by the rasputitsa as soon as they did, which gives them a chance to push the Soviets back to the Urals and out of relevance. Irkutsk and Vladivostok by themselves wouldn't have been enough to do anything serious.

They lost because they had a top-down leadership hierarchy. Because they were an authoritarian state.

>>138294115
They should have reinstalled monarchy.exe

>>138294552
I think war with the US at least was always an inevitability.

Even in 1940 FDR was meeting secretly with Churchill to assure him that he was doing everything he could to promote US intervention in Europe

>>138294115

Just a friendly reminder for all you people here.

>Mostly ever US solder lived in regret after they found out why they were really in germany for

>The same US vets went home after the way and beat down niggers during (((the civil rights))) era

>The same US ww2 vets joined kkk and white nationalist groups and discovered the truth.

I cant even imagine how sad those guys were. The jews tricked our boys to attack whites simply for having pride in themselves and trying to protect the white race.

Think about this for a second. for years and years up until ww2 white nationalism was always on the winning side of history.

you will not find single white looking person that isnt a jew that thought niggers were even human before the civil rights era and you wont be able to find a single white person that support civil rights out side of jews during that time.

It was only until 1970 that white nationalism was shamed and became taboo, but its stuck with us its embedded in the older generation still.

We will win.

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>resource depletion
>multi front wars
>focused efforts on killing Jews
>attached allies
>over extension of military forces

>>138294115
Hitler replaced competent generals with his nazi yes-men circlejerk and didn't listen to those that stayed and warned him of the many mistakes he committed such as :

- letting the british army flee from Dunkirk for "psychological war" purposes
- diverting resources to prioritize the extermination of indesirables over the war
- attacking Russia, ever.

Hitler was a savvy politician but a military strategist he was not.

They tried to expand their empire too quickly.

Going into Russia during the winter was a pretty big miscalculation.

Also, they failed to be the first country with an atomic bomb. If they had done that alone, and had a plane to deliver one anywhere they wanted, the entire world would have gotten on their knees.

>>138295786
>Mostly ever US solder lived in regret after they found out why they were really in germany for

Nope, I had 13 Great Uncles serve in WW2. Only two served in the Pacific theater. The other 11 were pretty much uniform opinion that the German people are pieces of shit and had it coming. Almost all of them hated Germans to their very core. They hated Communist just slightly less and gloated about how the Russians used Germany like slaves and were sad when the wall came down because they knew Germany would fuck Europe up again somehow. They're all dead now but their prognostication is pretty on point.

>>138295786
>The jews tricked our boys to attack whites

Germany declared war on the USA. How were "your boys" supposed to react?

>>138294115
Who gives a shit?

>>138294115
Kinda hard to uphold fascism when the glorious leader, the keystone of the entire operation, is a literal military autist.

>>138294115
Should've waited until he controlled the entirety of Western Europe before taking on the USSR

>>138294115
They lost because they had shit tons of powerful enemies who didn't want another competitor

>>138294115
Hitler thought he knew better than his generals. His mishandling of Normandy is infuriating.

>>138294115
They wasted resources managing internment camps
They were net losses

>>138296205
They were ether jews or brain washed by jews, no white person in their right mind we be against what germany was fighting for.

I promise you your uncles did not really know what was happening if they actually thought that. Ether that or they werent white. highly doubt they were liberals. No one was except jews back then.

>>138294115
Too few against too many

They lost because they took on the two largest manufacturing superpowers in the world. Wars aren't won by tactics, wars are fought and lost purely on logistics.

Both the United States and the USSR individually had more capability to put armaments on the battle field than the Axis powers had combined. There really was no stopping the two. Hitler hoped he could do enough damage in Barbarossa to halt the Soviet manufacturing power, but he never got there. The Japanese hoped they could destroy the American fleet at Pearl Harbor to delay enough so they could hold on to their gains, not necessarily defeat the USA. Landing and defeating a giant country poses giant logistical problems, the only way to defeat the USA in conventional warfare would be to hope they wear down the public's willingness to continue a fight, which would never happen if someone stole our lands.

Long story short, they lost because they didn't have the manufacturing capabilities.

>>138294612
>Assist Mosley as much as possible to secure an ally
Fucking this.

Hitler's biggest mistake was thinking that Britain had no ill will towards Germany after WWI. He should have known better and postponed his imperial ambitions until he knew for sure Britain would comply.

>>138294552

>Keeping the status quo was the best option.

Impossible because the Nazi state was built on the ideology of conquest

Third reich was fucked from the start

>>138294552
>personally i think they should have aimed toward peace after France was knocked out. Keeping the status quo was the best option.
They did. They repeatedly sent peace offerings to Britain. Hell, Rudolf Hess (Deputy Fuhrer) flew to Scotland to try and get into contact with Churchill to offer peace. Churchill locked him up for the rest of the war and never showed the peace deals to the British public.
>>138294756
>Six million Jews
Good goy
>>138296186
This dumb 'Attacked Russia during winter meme' Do you know what season it is in Russia on the 22nd of June (Which is when Operation Barbarossa was launched) It's Summer, literally one day after the beginning of summer which begins in Russia on the 21st. Winter starts on the 21st of December. Did you expect Hitler to go: 'Alright meine soldaten, ve are going home now because of winter but ve will definitely be back next year in Spring! Expect us!'

>>138294115

Stalingrad.

They likely would have won the war had they not fucked up there.

Getting entrenched in that city was Hitler's fatal mistake.

>>138294756
>they killed 6 million jews
Le ebic SIX GORRILION JEWS meme
Oh sweetie they never killed them you have a lot to learn

>>138295535
>loses to another authoritarian state
Wat

>>138295935
Yeah, I'm sure he just knocked out a world power in six weeks on accident.

lol

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>>138294115
>Why did they lose? What was the mistake they brought their demise?
they managed to circumvent the western theory of economics which said your money had to be backed by gold which was owned by international bankers.

Germany began issuing its own money, and within 2 years unemployment was zero, they had a stable currency, no debt, no inflation, and managed to restore foreign trade (despite international banker's denials of foreign credit to Germany) via bartering systems that cut the bankers out of the picture even moreso. Those systems had the benefit of eliminating national debt and foreign trade deficits.
tldr germany was a cancer in the colon of the international banking community, and thus WW2 happened.

>>138294115
Hitler was a great politician, but a terrible commander.

He didn't garner the blessing of the Anglo.

>>138294115
1.They should have attempted to conscript the Russian peasants that viewed then as liberators.
2. Should have had no mercy at Dunkirk.
3. Should never have gone for Stalingrad/Moscow with winter approaching.

Those are the big ones. Researching nukes fervently might have also paid off.

>>138294115
Not break their non-aggression pact with Russia for a start

>>138294115
Traitorous generals trying to return Germany to Prussian rule.

>>138297247
As I said, there were still competent officers in the german army left over from the Weimar Republic. The most disastrous decisions of the war were all his, however.

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>>138297247

Actually, yes. That is what happened. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

>>138294115
They rejected God

>>138296850
>they didn't have the manufacturing capabilities

Just to expand a tiny bit on that.
They didn't have the manufacturing/production capabilities because both countries (Germany and Japan) are extremely poor in natural resources (energy as well as metal).
Even food.

>>138294115

Hitler underestimated the USSR. He thought it was an unstable regime which would implode once he invaded. Unfortunately, he was wrong. Stalin was too successful in liquidating his political opposition. And Hitler should have concentrated his forces in the North and taken Moscow.

>>138297504
>They should have attempted to conscript the Russian peasants that viewed then as liberators
They did do this.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Liberation_Army

>>138294115
Choose a better partner than Italy.

>>138297753
You're retarded.

>>138294552

Hitler tried to offer peace terms to the French during the 'phoney war' before he overran France with his tanks. The thing about the Allies was that they were resolved from day one that National Socialist Germany could not be allowed to exist. It wasn't about Germany's aggression, it was about the fact that Germany was pursuing a different political economy and would not integrate itself into the bankers' international system.

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>>138294336

They could have taken Russia if not for US funding. The soviets covered up their losses just at the battle for Moscow for many many years because it was such a huge amount.

>>138294115

Hitler was obsessed with keeping the quality of life high back home so they didnt fully mobilize for total war until it was far too late.

Honestly considering how close they were to defeating the soviets i think that wouldve made the difference

Even if he could have seen the future, I'm not sure what Hitler could have done much differently. I mean, if they avoided the war entirely, he would still have the bankers against him on one side and the Soviets on the other. And the Soviets did have ambitions to invade Europe.

>>138298143
Not only that but on the second day of the invasion of Poland Hitler offered to withdraw from Poland and pay for all damages if the British would oversee the transfer of Danzig and the plebiscite over Pomeralia like he asked them to.

>>138297840
>Hitler should have concentrated his forces in the North and taken Moscow.
The Kiev military district, if bypassed, would have left over 500k troops sittign on Guderian's right flank and the German 2nd infantry army was hung up in front of them (especially around Gomel)... to leave that garrison on the flank is to invite disaster. Guderian's right flank would have stretched for hundreds of miles and that would have left them spread too thin to defend and keep the lines stable.

>>138296206
>Germany declared war on the USA.
USA was already in the war in all but name with it's armament programme.

>>138294756
>t. Jew

>>138296642
You sound like an even-minded and reasonable person who does not have an agenda.

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>>138294115
Not enough fashy Chad grooves.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNT6Kr8c83k

>>138294115
the war's not over yet, my friend. =)

I heard on Lindybeige's channel that the German troops were given meth during the invasion of France. The halt that Hitler forced before Dunkirk was in part to give the soldiers some rest because they'd all come down.

>>138298573
This. Many historians have directly concluded that will the decision was the right one it was more or less over in the Ukraine. Hitler wins but loses taking Moscow and ultimately loses. But his decision was a necessary one.

I have a dumbass question for all y'all.

Was Germany cool with Japan's plan of bombing Peal Harbor? Did they know of it and approve of it ahead of time?

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>>138299645
Hitler hated the USA. He thought it was a degenerate half-judaized half-negrified country.

>>138300095
Well ok yeah, but did he explicitly approve of Japan's plan?

>>138300095
Roosevelt for his part hated Hitler and Germany. During a sickness in 1936 or 37 he apparently exclaimed that he would like to put a bullet through Hitler's brain. I don't think Hitler knew about Japan's attack beforehand. But like all his other decisions he took a wager on the outcome. This wager (Declaring war on the US) did not bear fruit.

>>138299475
Hitler's real mistake was launching Typhoon immediately after clearing the Kiev pocket. Obviously, the groundpounders of the Reich were pretty tired and depleted by the time they secured Kiev, but they weren't totally spent.

Hitler should have ordered all forces to dig in on the Oka River, which was fortified and turned into a prime defensive fighting position during the time that Guderian and Hoth were out and about. It was such a well fortified and defended position that it held for two years after Typhoon and aided in German counterattacks during Operation Mars.

Essentially, if Hitler had ordered the line to be held at Oka during the winter, it would have forced the commies to either launch a headfirst assault into an almost impenetrable line, during the middle of winter, or wait until Spring like Germany would, while knowing that Germany would be recollecting itself for another effort.

>>138294115
1. Wiped out Dunkirk
2. Taken favorable terms with UK
3. Asked Japan not to start anything with the US
4. Declared on Russia sooner or not at all, not after they were mass producing tanks.

>>138294115

2 billion vs 70 million over 7 years with 5 super hot. They were supermen.

>>138294756
Oh sweetie...

>>138294115
Dont start a two front war and dont start bombing Cities instead of airfields during the battle of Britten.

>>138294548

GLP faggot.

>>138300454

Illiterate Jew.

>>138300591
hate the sub-human not the country

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>>138295786
You're full of shit.

51% of american soldiers supported the nazi party with the exception of invading other countries, 60% of american soldiers approved of Germans in general.

http://almeida206.weebly.com/uploads/1/3/4/4/13442579/grand_expectations.pdf

>>138294548
Truth

>>138294115
hitler should have slaughter the british when he had the chance, and he shouldnt have wasted so much time sueing for peace with the west. also he shouldnt have declared war on america regardless of his treaty with japan.

>>138300857
Whoops, sorry, meant that for the idiot here
>>138296205
that claimed US soldiers didn't like germans.

He's basing that on (((movies))) he's seen.

>>138294115
battle on too many fronts
they had america beat
they broke the non aggression pact with russia and stretched them too thin

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>>138294115
>Why did they lose? What was the mistake they brought their demise?
They were wrong in thinking the aryan race is superior. Jews have the highest IQ than any race and are always prominent members of any society. Jews are master race

>>138300340
I think this was part of Hitler's own 'doing it all' mentality. Over reaching and overly ambitious. Not to say those aren't good traits but applied in delicate situations like war where one battle can shift the outcome... well yeah. However from what I remember from the book 'Hitler's War on Russia' by a former SS member, I'm pretty sure Hitler's generals insisted on taking Moscow and Hitler felt he owed them for stopping them before to turn to the Ukraine.

>>138294517
underrated

>>138300340

We can all be armchair generals in regards to the Eastern Front, but the reality of the situation is unless Germany could knock out the Soviet Union before Lend-Lease came into play, the war was lost. Germany couldn't produce enough war material to win in a game of attrition.

Also not declaring war on the USA.

Personally I think that involved taking Moscow and the liquidation of the Soviet leadership, not the destruction of the Soviet armies per say.

There is no way that America or Great Britain was prepared to endure the casualties that the Soviet Union endured to destroy Germany.

But then again there is the nuclear program in the USA. The crazed (((internationalists))) in the USA would have used it on Germany.

As for Japan, the only hope for them was to destroy the aircraft carriers at Pearl Harbor or at the Battle of the Coral Sea, and then make peace before America's industrial might came online.

Italy not going full retard in the Balkans/North Africa would have been a nice touch as well.

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>>138294115
They thought Tesla was successful in his mission.

>>138300938
Hitler and Germany understood that in a quick short war they would always come out on top but against any of the major power, resource rich empires of the world in a prolonged conflict and they would lose. Hitler knew the longer the war progressed the more favourable Britain's position became as she stockpiled resources while Germany's already limited supply of everything dwindled to nothing. Additionally the longer the war lasted the more discontent there would be in the German population and the chances of another great power joining the war (Like the USA or USSR) grew ever greater.

>>138294115

Turn that around. Why would they have won? The Nazis had no realistic endgame. The swastika was a cross of axes. They kept trying to push out, until they were guaranteed to lose. Russia to the East, the Allies to the West, an incompetent intelligence apparatus, plus Italy surrendering, and then for bonus beats, Yugoslavia bleeding them out.

The Nazis could have stayed in power if they'd just left well enough alone. They should have proved Neville Chamberlain right: they should have just taken the Sudetenland and kept things to a dull roar.

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>>138296938
>Being this fucking new
Despite Germany sending numerous offers of peace to Britain throughout the war? Despite letting the Allied forces escape Dunkirk as a sign of goodwill? And the war with Poland shouldn't have even happened, honestly. Hitler didn't want to take over Poland, he wanted the Danzig corridor. He promised to give Poland a shit ton of land from the Soviets and wanted to be in the Anti-Comitern Pact with them. Lurk more faggot.

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>>138301302
>>138301326
It might have been a character defect, he might have had legitimate strategic considerations being made when he decided to launch Typhoon instantly.

Personally, I think going for Moscow would have been a good idea, but only if they waited until Spring and recuped a bit at the Oka line prior to doing so. Anything before Spring results in (under optimal circumstances) an exhausted fighting force that lacks the mobility and quantity required to encircle the city, and they'd just get sucked into another street fight where german troops fight house to house and take massive casualties. Sound familiar?

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They did not lose. After Germany invented time travel they found out humanity would come to an end due to a massive extinction event.

Exterminating jews prevented that from happening, but knowing they would be forever labeled war criminals, they decided to go a thousand year in the future and enjoy 3k tech and full dive virtual anime tiddies.

>>138294115
Russia is where empires go to die.

Source: history

/thread

>>138301302

> overly ambitious

Dude was hopped up on amphetamines, vibrating like a tuning fork.

He was also the poster child for the Peter Principle: a great public speaker who failed as a generalissimo. Some good judgment in earlier battles does not translate into overall success. Before long, he had picked fights that he not only couldn't win, but which he couldn't back down from without triggering further failure. Adolf Hitler ultimately failed his people, who were later divided for decades, half of whom living under communism, and who only later succeeded in spite of the setbacks he had created.

Not invading Russia immediately after taking France and not wasting time with Britain

>>138294115
they were pretty much fucked after dunkirk. if hitler would have taken the british army, then immediately begun unrestricted bombing of england followed by a paratroop invasion, war would have been over. hitler had this autistic fantasy about an alliance with england

>>138294115
Should have researched a long range bomber and flattened British industry into submission, while using ground forces to seize Gibraltar and Egypt/Suez Canal as early as 1940.

Also pressure harder for Spain and turkey to join axis.

Don't mess with Russia until you've defeated England.

>>138294756
wait, i thought it was 7 million, wtf is up with that? were they counting people twice

>>138294115
>Why did they lose?

They underestimated the evil of the Jew.

>>138300095

He wasn't wrong.

>>138295935
He had to attack Russia. Stalin was preparing for war and was being supplied militarily by the United States. He had to strike first before Stalin was ready and he actually did catch him flat footed, he came close to knocking him out but no cigar

>>138302241
Honestly, this. Hitler should have Sarin'd them after Churchill wouldn't stop the bombings of German cities.

>>138299055
He's absolutely right, though.

>>138302676
not even that. the germans had complete air superiority when they took france. the english couldn't have dropped a single bomb on german soil. if he would have taken the army at dunkirk, england was undefended. all he would have had to do was soften them up with a month of unrestricted bombing and then finish them wuth a paratroop invasion. but hitler seriously thought he needed an alliance with britain. the qualities that made him a superb political leader made him a shitty military leader

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>>138294115
Germany needed Franco and have only 1 front. Hitler also needed to secure the Mediterranean Sea and north Africa. Japan shouldn't have attacked the USA and Instead focusing on the USSR when Nazis attacked.

>>138302241
>>138302676
Hitler didn't begin bombing Britain until After Britain bombed Germany. He didn't want war with Britain, because he believed in the German people. If you recall, Britain was settled by many peoples, predominantly Germanic peoples. Anglos were from the area south of Denmark and Saxons were from Saxony, the pagan tribe that Charlemagne later violently converted. Anglo-Saxon is pretty much a Germanic cousin. If Hitler's endgame was the veneration and fulfillment of the Germanic race, he strongly preferred not fighting his cousins. How degenerate.

>>138297116
An authoritarian state with resources is always stonger than the one without.

>>138302392

(Nazis mount Operation Barbarossa, a colossal failure stemming from incompetent Nazi planning and intelligence)

"the Jews did this"

(Hitler fucks up the ME-262 and cancels most of the weapons research programs)

"th-the Jews did this"

(Battle of the Bulge)

"I-I-I'm a big imp-p-p-portant boy and the J-J-J-Jews are somehow responsible for this even though I insisted on doing things my way"

(Hitler actively refuses to fight the British bombing fleet by striking at their bases in Britain)

"J-J-J-J-J-"

(The London Blitz has literally the opposite of the intended effect.)

"REEEEEEEEE"

>>138303338
yes, that is why he lost and germany was raped by mongolois red army soldiers producing angela merkel. but at least it was a moral victory

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>>138303713
The Jews doing it isn't that they were tricked in each individual battle, you colossal mongoloid, it was them getting the U.S involved in the war twice and declaring their own economic war on Germany, before Krystallnacht even happened.

>>138294115
Hitler was a good politician but was completely retarded in everything else.

Examples:
Thought bombing civilian centers instead of Brit factories was a good idea. No it just made the civs really pissed off while they built more war material.

Didn't finish war in the west but instead invades ussr splitting into a two front war.

Thought that wasting man power and resources for exterminating a bunch of dumb jews because "dey uh-press us en shiiiyt" Yeah im sure a bunch of beak nosed, greasy sideburn, big hatted faggots were oppressing the german people all right. Smells like bullshit to me.

Thought that building big retarded tanks like the maus was a genius idea. A 188 ton armored brick the size of a house is completely fucking useless.

Ignored his generals past 1942 and decided issuing insane attacks and hatching faggety strategies that didn't work worth a fuck. This left millions of troops to get cut off, captured or annihilated.

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>>138304571

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>>138304640

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>>138304681

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>>138304706

>>138303338
Battle of Britain started a month after Dunkirk. The was a lot of talk of a negotiated peace in june 1940. Probably would have happened if the waited.

>>138304332
>autism flag
>has retard opinion

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>>138304755

>>138304770
As far as I am aware, the British did not stop their nightly bombing campaign in the interim. It's not exactly strategic to engage in diplomacy while you are being bombed.

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>>138304891

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>>138304939

I never new that source plz. Also, if wut u are saying is true, it's then quite possible that on day 2 of ww2, Hitler was quite insane.

>>138304856
Nationalist Socialism is autism bud and you can't deny that all those things are true.

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>>138305151

>>138304891
Bombing with Wellingtons was not that effective. Most of the goverment hated Churchill, would have been wiser to let it brew.

>>138294548
Bait or you're retarded

>>138297637
Redpill

>>138304939
Germany declared war on us first doorknob. Japan attacked pearl harbour and since Germany and Japan were allies Germany jumped in and declared war.

>>138298146
Lol. How retarded are you? The US didn't even supply them until later on and it was a small fraction of their total equipment/tanks/weapons.

>>138305203
Why don't you try posting things that are actually legible. I can't read shit.

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>>138305506
Do you count billions of dollars worth of equipment being sent on credit to a nation that you are at war with neutrality? If so you are a fool.

Because they went full retard and attacked the soviet union and the balkans.

media must be out competed by new TV adn media, trump TV etc,

and investigations made n penalties for scammy money deals with commy tax parasite media

Invading Russia, and declaring war on the US-the US had a war with Japan, big mistake to open another front.

>>138296966
Perhaps Barbarossa would have gone better if they actually commenced the operation in may rather than postponing it.

>>138304069

Ah yes, those famous Jews, the Japanese

Glad we can all agree that Hitler was an incompetent retard

>>138304939

Even David Irving and Stormfront recognize that quote as a forgery. Why are you posting forgeries?

https://www.stormfront.org/forum/t1159049/

>>138294548
>jidf script.

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They got greedy.

>>138305546
Trains and boots were what won it. The US supplied all of those.

>Japan shouldn't have attacked the U$
Perhaps the Axis knew that the US was going to enter the war.

>>138304939

Fake quote.

Fucks sake even David Irving said that quote was fake.

>>138294115
Nothing they could have done. The banks exerted too much influence. Hitler was a little late. If only they had invented the internet..

Should've waited to get nukes. Either they get then first and go Super Blitzkrieg or at least they can get in on the cold war and probably expand though proxy wars. Most people in Europe and America would favor National Socialism when the Communists went ham in the 50s and 60s.

>>138305959
>>138306295
Wow, nice job debunking one of many. I'll wait on the rest. Removed from my archives.

>>138294756
man are your eyes going to hurt when you are finally able to see again

>>138294548
Fuck yourself.
Check yourself.
Wreck yoursellf

>>138294756
you sure it wasn't 911 million goyim?

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Complicated relationships with his generals.

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>>138294115
They should have not invaded anybody until they were unstoppable, ie; the Australian strategy in the board game Risk. Also, fight Europe OR Russia, not both. Also, drop the the whole "master race" thing, it's too edgy and makes everyone else hate you. Also, attacking British civilians with buzz-bombs gave Britain the moral high ground. Also, fuck battleships. How many subs could have been built for the cost of the Bismarck? Also fuck railguns and jets. Way too many resources spent on massive propaganda weapons. Also, should not have invaded Africa, that spread their forces too thin. If the Africa forces had been instead held as reserve in France, D-Day would have got a lot differently, actually it probably never would have happened. Also, Lashing out at the entire world all at once? wtf? Also, Hitler & Friends were all Juggalo-level meth addicts. Also, shouldn't have fucked with the Jews. You piss off a lot of powerful people worldwide when you do that. Not a good idea to piss off powerful people that are outside your reach. There's a lot more reasons why they failed, but mom says it's time for milkies.

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>>138294115

>>138294115
Should have secured Europe before tangling with the US. Also should have made nice with Russia until both Europe and America were conquered.

>>138307791
>America
>Conquered

Anon...

>>138294115
they were just a loose assemblage of well-uniformed maniacs

>>138294756
They didn't kill 6 million. They couldn't kill the jews in the US and British Empire and in the Soviet Union who made sure all three wouldn't rest until Germany was destroyed.

>>138295244
Yep.

>>138305958
Maybe, but if I remember correctly from a David Irving speech, there was a river (I don't know if it was the Vistula or a river further into Russia) that would have been very hard to cross in spring so maybe it would have been better to wait (Not as long as they did but wait a little more nonetheless). Maybe Hitler's actual plan might have worked better than the plan the Generals came up with (Hitler's plan was replaced because he was sick with dysentery in the two weeks leading up to OB) so his generals went with there plan instead.

>>138294115
He should have camped in Australia until he had enough troops to make a massive push into Asia.

It's like he never even played Risk.

>>138308414
see >>138300340

>>138294115
Honestly, I believe they tried to do it all at once. And they shouldn't have let those English survive in Dukerke -I know it may have been a last attempt from Hitler to make a deal with Churchill.

>>138308832
No, not the Oka River before Moscow I mean a river that was either on the German-Soviet border or very close to it that would have made the initial stages of OB difficult logistically if it wasn't frozen over.

>>138294336
If it wasn't for Churchill dragging in the US Into the war, they would have defeated the USSR. But battling 2 fronts and then lack of preparations is what led to the downfall. Hitler also offered multiple peace treaties to the U.K., he did not want to fight them, even though he would have won.

>>138297840
>Hitler underestimated the USSR. He thought it was an unstable regime which would implode once he invaded
No one could have expected the USSR to put up the fight it did. It lost wars to both Poland and Finland, and lets not forget the great purge.

From the outside the USSR was not a country capable of waging an effective war and had serious political issues.

>>138309129

Uh...what do you mean, they "would" have won? They...lost. I mean, at earlier junctions, they *could* have won, they could have done this or that, but at the end of the day, the Germans lost.

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>>138296205
General Patton regretted it

>>138294115
They were alone vs multiple power houses

>>138294115
Hindsight is always 20/20. They brilliantly called France and Britain's bluff by re-arming in violation of the Treaty of Versailles, remilitarizing the Rhineland, pressing for the return of the Ruhr Valley, annexing Austria and then the Sudentenland with the Munich Accords. When Polish leadership changed in the mid-30's East Prussian and other Germans in Danzig were abused. Stalin knew Hitler viewed the Ukraine and the Balkans as Germany's future "frontier" to settle. So Stalin would have moved against Hitler at some point through Poland. The Partition of Poland bought time against the Soviets. After blitzkrieging France and Norway, there was nothing they could do to convince Britain to stand down while they took on the Soviets for eastern living space. If any other person than Churchill had been Prime Minister, the Brits might have taken the deal. Churchill had really studied the German's capabilities since the rise of Hitler, and knew that if a two-front war broke out, and he could get the US to support Britain, he could outlast the Third Reich. The Italians we not helpful during the war, but their switch in allegiance to Germany over British opposition to their conquest of Ethiopia basically doomed France strategically and paved the road for the annexation of Austria and Germany's free hand in the east. Germany had to fulfill it's treaty obligations with Japan after they struck Pearl Harbor and the US declared war. Ultimately the US would have gone to war with Germany. Barbarossa has been debated by historians for 75 years. Would waiting longer have helped? Would going easier on the Ukrainians at least at first helped pacify the populace and made it easier to be perceived as a savior to Stalin? Maybe. Ultimately, They played a weak hand pretty well for as long as they could. Ultimately (((The Bank of England))) drove policy that kept Britain as Germany's greatest antagonist from 1905-11945. Those same (((bankers))) were behind Wilson & FDR.

>>138309926
>basically doomed France strategically
How did Italy being on Germany's side doom France?

>>138301741
>you're this new!
>now here's a bunch of repeatedly debunked mythology and unsourced statements pulled out of my rectum
>lurk more fag
Lol

>>138309183
Also Imperial Germany had utterly kicked Czarist Russia's ass in WWI and respect for Russian military effectiveness was pretty low on the German side.

>>138294115
Anyone know the marching song, something about spilling blood from a knife? Is it even available online or has it been outlawed?

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>>138294548

>>138310339
>Also Imperial Germany had utterly kicked Czarist Russia's ass in WWI
Well, not really. Tannenberg certainly stopped the Tsarist steamroller but even with the land they lost in the north and Poland, they came to breaking the Austro-Hungarians many times and it was only with German help and the revolution that stopped the steamroller from finishing the job.

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>>138295244
Truth.
The same jews fighting for the same reason just using different tactics.

>>138294336
thats the gay answer

>>138294517
this is the short answer

>>138294548
this is dodging the question

>>138295786
the reminder for context

>>138295844
this

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>>138294115
Backstabbed by USA.

>>138310641
Yeah, Austro-Hungarian. But not the German Empire. Honestly if Germany didn't have to constantly bail out Austria-Hungary in Serbia, Romania and Russia, the war might have been over a lot sooner. But really that is Germany's eternal curse. It is amazing by itself but its dumb allies always bring it down.

>>138296966

Rudolf Hess's flight was not authorized by the German government. He was not acting on their actual behalf. He had no actual peace deals to offer. He was a whack job.

>>138294115
spent too much resources in Antarctica looking for spooky shit

>>138311137
You say that, but don't forget that Russia's premier commanders were in the south and not the north.

>>138310249
Mussolini described Hitler as a "garrulous monk"upon their first meeting--he wasn't impressed. In 1934-35 he stood with the Dollfus government, signing a treaty to protect Austrian Independence from the threat of Nazi designs for annexation. When Mussolini decided to wipe away the stain of the the Battle of Adowa by attacking Ethiopia, Italy, France and Britain were nominally still allied. The French were fine with giving Italy a free hand in Ethiopia, but the British pressed for sanctions against Italy and made a bunch of ultimately empty gestures in the League of Nations that enraged Mussolini and didn't stop him from eventually taking Ethiopia. According to Churchill, this drove Mussolini into the arms of Hitler, because the British were both insulting and weak in their loud complaining which they failed to back up with any force. Once the four great western powers went from 3-1 Britain, France, Italy vs. German to Germany and Italy against France and Britain, Hitler felt confident enough to remilitarize the Rhineland. Once that was done, the French were no longer seen as a credible protector of central Europe and the Germans were once again 100 miles closer to Paris. Effectively the door to Germany was closed to France for swift offensive action. Butt the French were once again vulnerable--indeed they did not realize how vulnerable until Blitzkrieg swept around the Maginot Line--in an 1870-like lightning strike all the way to Paris.

>>138294548
No. No they weren't leftist. That's a lie perpetuated by revisionists on the right that only shows the historical ignorance of the people who spout it as though the word "socialist" in the name is some kind of checkmate move. Read the actual history. The DAP (later NSDAP) was founded by ultra-nationalists from across the left-right spectrum, but it strongly opposed to the left-wing SPD and KPD from the start, and the party purged the remaining left-wingers in the party like Gregor Strasser in 1928. Anti-Marxist policies took centre-stage during the '30s, and Hitler's NSDAP after the Night of the Long Knives in 1934 was about as far-right as it's possible for a party to be.

>>138311296

WE ARE THE MASTER RACE! THE FINEST, THE FINEST!

NOW EXCUSE US WHILE GET FUCKED UP ON METH AND MORPHINE WHILE LOOKING FOR MAGIC INSIDE THE HOLLOW EARTH

(loses war)

HOW STRANGE. WE MUST HAVE BEEN BETRAYED

>>138311296
And Jones. Mein GOT! That Indiana Jones!

>>138311245
I don't personally think that to be true.
http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v03/v03p291_anon.html
This is good reading on the subject.

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>>138294115
The U.S. drew the fire of the Japanese Navy. If the Japs hit Russia there would have been no hope. No one but the U.S. could take on their Navy.

>>138300184
The Japs got 80% of their oil from the US. So the Embargo for them getting close to the Philippines and taking the French-indochina really hit them hard. Also there plans were to go to war with Australia, phillipines (our territory at the time), and the US anyways. Yamamoto copied a british operation in hopes that it would take out our navy so that it would cripple us and prevent us from going to war, but they fucked up and only completed 1/4 of their mission at Pearl Harbor. They didn't take out our aircraft carriers, they didn't hit are fuel reserves, and they didn't destroy are repair equipment.

I guess you could blame the Japs for their imperialism that caused us to go to war with them. The problem was that during that time the Japs were so focused on proving to the west that they were a great power for the last 100 years that they got too greedy. If they chilled off on some of the imperialism and let things settle instead of rushing they might have avoided some conflict.

>>138294115
Not enough U-Boats.

Seriously, U-Boats may have been the most cost effective, efficient weapons every utilized in warfare. With a larger U-Boat and tender fleet Merchant shipping could have been completely shut down early, choking out the UK and Russia.

But nah, muh Jews and wunderweapons.

That and forcing their time table because their financial policies were shit.

>>138294115
if Hitler had his speeches in English, we wouldn't have bombed them

>>138311505
I'm well aware of the situation regarding Mussolini and the Rome Protocols but wasn't it more the Hoare-Laval Pact's leaking that drove Italy towards Germany?

>>138294336
that was japan

japan fucked it up for germany

>>138294115
The MEFO bill.

>>138294115
Hitler wasn't trying to win. He deliberately sabotaged the war effort on several occasions and started entirely unnecessary conflicts. There was no chance of a Nazi victory to begin with, once it was taken to a global level, and Hitler knew it while others were filled up with false hope through Hitler's manipulation. What Hitler wanted was carnage, he hated mankind and wanted to leave with a bang. He was extremely insecure and wanted to be remembered as an ubermensch, a men who went beyond social norms and morality and willed his wish for millions to die into reality. He received pleasure from the mere chaos he created, from the fact that he left a deep impact upon the world, even if it's an evil one.

>>138311549
This is correct. Prior to N of LK, the party was much about leveling society and getting the bankers and the elites. After it was focused on not on social leveling but on the idea of unifying the volk by a truly totalitarian focus on their common national identity.

>>138294115
jews were too impatient to attack russia as communism did not achieve the results they wanted.

they are similarly impatient now, to the point they will destroy the president of fucking usa for slowing down their war plans.

>>138294115
am not going to meme
but lack of manpower
manpower always triumphs most of the time
manpower >quality
most revolutions are successful because of the amount of people being on them not because of the quality same with war, winning the battles =/= winning the war

for a better example see
Rhodesia

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>>138294115
>Why did they lose?
1939
German population: 67 million
Italy: 44 million
Japan 70 million

181 million

Great Britain: 46 million
U.S. 131 million
China: 268 million
France: 114 million
USSR: 170 million

729 million

Good luck

>>138294115
>Why did they lose?
They trusted Russia.

Hitler was a spacker and didn't listen to his generals.

>>138297753
Quality leafpost.

>>138294115
I think gassing the jews sparked intervention. If Hitler just disadvantaged them so that they couldn't be at the top of scociety they would have been around in the seventies.

>>138311838
Yes Pearl Harbor was based on Taranto, but it was also based on Port Arthur--a Japanese torpedo attack in the Russo-Japanese war. And the Jap pilots didn't screw up. It was shear luck that the Enterprise, Hornet, Saratoga and Lexington were not in port. Missing the oil take farms was bad, but they ran wild for 6 months after Pearl, and that was all Yamamoto promised Hirohito and the Emperor. Save for dumb luck of the US catching all their plans refueling on deck at Midway, The Jap navy might have slowed down the US even longer.

>>138312550

But that didnt happen....Gunning jews into pits, absolutely. Gassing them in some production line gas machine, not even possible.

>>138311950
Wow. Yes. If he'd spoke English like the Kaiser, he would have sounded a lot less scary in the newsreels...

>>138311972
Read "The Gathering Storm" by Churchill. I think I'll go with his interpretation.

>>138312085
Fucking nonsense. Squared.

>>138312550
No one cared about the Jews. Britain's Jews didn't care. They cared about stopping one power in continental Europe from becoming too dominant. In the 1600's it was Spain, 1700's and 1800's France and in 1900's Germany.

>>138312430
>they trusted Russia too much by being the first to break the non-aggression pact

>>138312588
Tojo and the Emperor. Tired...

>>138294548
larping nazis BTFO

>>138312333
>population
Population doesn't matter that much, how much of the population you can mobilise matters far more. For example the Raj had a population around 290 million and mobilised 2.5 million, Britain had a population of 46 million and mobilised 3.5 million.

>>138312760
I think using Churchill as a source for the leadup to WWII isn't a terribly good idea, he is bound to have biased opinions.

>>138302093
You know everyone blames the eternal Anglo but if Russians didn't murder their own monarchy and fully sperged out on crony communism I reckon there would of been a peace between German and Russia that would of sorted out europe a long time ago. The British and Americans and (((them))) would be eternally butt-hurt but ideally it could of killed of the leftist cancer before it had a chance to spread...

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>>138313079
historians agree that Russia was mobilizing for a preemptive strike on Germany

>>138313270
>I reckon there would of been a peace between German and Russia that would of sorted out europe a long time ago.
A peace where Germany wouldn't exist, the Russians would have been out for as much blood as the French were.

>>138294115

Going for too much land, too quickly.

>>138313373
and trusting Russia to be friends

>>138301652
There is truth to this. But situation in the corridor was bad. And the Brits and French had backed down five times in the preceding five years. Once Poland flipped their switch, just like the Czar refusing not to mobilize started the wheels in motion that was eventually going to lead to yet another two front war--the very thing Bismark spent a quarter century steering Germany away from in the previous century. That dude was fat, but he knew his stuff.

>>138294115
Don't they teach history in your schools?
>american education

>>138313270
the friendly relations between russia and europe is something that international jewry will never allow, that's why they sent communists to russia "to sperg and kill their own monarchy"

>>138313415

If they didn't go for so much land, they would be.

Russia felt their backs against the wall, it's a continual cycle with them (even now)

>destroy british army at dunkirk, shouldny have paused the advance
>should have pushed to moscow instead of pausing to take leningrad

Everything else would have fallen like dominios

>british activity in north africa limited
>axis wins north africa and the ME
>they get access to MENA oil
>new front through the caucasus opened into russia
>War is limited to one front as brits cannot get enough men to invade at notmandy

>>138313345
Maybe. But the Russians had more interest in Constantinople and might have gotten there if the Brits had been left looking in from the outside thanks to some kind of Imperial German/Romanov Russian peace.

>>138294336
>don't fuck with russia
Not enough oil to feed their army. German war machine dead after few years. Also the soviets had plans to invade Germany, just later.
>the USA
US was helping out the UK and putting embargos on Germany. It was like war, but not official. They would've declared war sooner or later on germany.
>>138311980
US cut over 80% of oil supply to Japan. That was the sole reason why they went to war with the US. They couldn't sustain their army without it.

>>138295935

http://eiaonline.com/history/bloodforoil.htm

Must read for armchair quarterbacks.

>>138301164

jews in WW1 had an average IQ of 80..."Economic Facts and Fallacies" Dr Thomas Sowell

>>138294115
1. Breaking the non aggression pact, Stalin was looking forward to having Germany as an ally and with the rapid industrialization of Russia they would have been a good ally
2.miscalculating when operation overload would take place considering the defenses they had on the beach if the Americans invaded at high tide it would have been a failure
3.diverting attacks from London, during the Battle of Britain the Germans diverted their aircraft to another city pretty much allowing lend lease to take place and allowing Churchill to build up the RAF
4.insane projects like the maus, gustav gun and landkrauser she t like this drained Germany of funds when resources were low already fighting on two fronts

>>138313796
Such a peace wouldn't have happened, the Germans weren't giving up territory they took and the Russians wouldn't want to give up territory either.

>>138313309
Pretty much even with out the war on the east and western front Russia would have beat Germany alone, however it would have lasted another year or so leading to higher fatalities on both sides

>>138303338

True, Britain declared war on Germany and if Chamberlain wasn't such a gigantic faggot, there would've been peace between the two countries.

Hitler admired Germany

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>>138294115
they shoud of waited for the STG-44 and STG-45 to be perfected and waited and replaced their fighters with fighter jets and of course kept Hitler out of the war room and on diplomatic engagements.
but that didn't happen and we got Dresden and Frankfurt firebombed to ash instead

>>138314041
The Russians probably could have won a war against England if operation unthinkable had taken place

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>>138313942
>rapid industrialization of Russia they would have been a good ally
you do understand that after that happened, they would've attacked germany?

>>138301741
>took poland instead of just danzing
>cuts it into two with its sworn enemy
>loses it anyway
lol

>>138294115
Should have taken the UK out of the picture, secured North Africa and built up armaments for a few years while maintaining a friendly posture with the Soviet Union.

>>138294115
>their allies were muzzies, dagos, and nips.
never stood a chance.

>>138313942
>miscalculating
If you are expecting a naval invasion you can predict almost everything but the actual day it happens. There are only so many places where a large force can land, so the Allies ensured the Germans were looking at the wrong place when it happened.

>>138314259
>Should have taken the UK out of the picture,
How, its been proven that Sealion wouldn't have worked because the Royal Navy would rock up and shut it down.
>secured North Africa
How, they lost.

>>138313309
Germany literally couldn't not go to war due to the MEFO bills
The preparation was even-sided

>>138294115
A series of things imo.

Goebbels wanted to enact policy to close non-war-essential businesses in 1942, and Hitler never OK-ed the policy until 1944, when the war was basically over. As well, production focusing on untested weaponry in Russian conditions, as well as a focus on new, unreliable and untested equipment cost the Reich a lot of money and wasted production on such equipment, when they could've made a bunch of panzer IV's instead.

Japan attacking the US and having the allies "revived" by the Americans was a huge factor as well. Imo, they could've fought the soviets or the US with some success, however not both at the time.

And finally, having the worst allies in history didn't help at all. Italy was totally useless, Romania switched sides and Japan was too busy fighting Chinks and Americans to open a third front on the Soviets. Germany was basically carrying the axis to victory entirely on it's own.

>>138314202
Well yes but I'm looking at a very bizarre timeline where Germany didn't make these mistakes so maybe something as outrageous as no Russian preemptive strike but having an industrialized ally is pretty damn good

>>138314402
As well, even if Hitler had done everything right, there was too much opposition in the general staff itself for Hitler and potentially the reich to stick around for long if they won the war.

Fun fact one Tiger I was equal in price for the country making it to 40 t-34s
And tanks must be quick and cheap, not expensive like a fucking boat and the size of one

>>138294115
Do you want to know the causal reason they lost or the ultimate reason?

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>>138313079
Stalin took the Jewish idea of world domination through communism for himself. He supported the rise of national socialism so that Germany would fight the capitalists. After both sides were weakened he would swoop in take everything but Germany found out about it and ruined his plans.

>>138314402
>Romania
>terrible
The Romanians were under equipped and massively outnumbered by the Soviets and largely left on their own to defend the flanks.

>>138314537
>40 t-34s
Which T-34s? Because the early models weren't that great.

>>138311722

HaHA! These shills man.

>>138294115
Technicaly not allying with Poland, hitler could play it better. We did hate jews and bolsheviks at that time more than Germans.

But when it comes tactitcal mistakes:
>dunkirk
Hitler was obbsesed with potential anglo-german alliance and wanted it to be show of good will, he stoped forces. Whiping out britbongs would be both tactical and moral victory
>Battle Of Britan
Well overall putting that fatso Goering in charge of Luftwaffe, long list of sins
-Send Ju-87 over britan, that were easy prey for fighters, should be kept back and only used with total air dominance (see france/poland and to some degree russia)
-109/190 with bombs to help bombers, literaly idiotic 250kg bomb on fighter that was limiting its fight time while covering bombers
- twin engined heavy fighters, munch munch for spits
- when RAF was on bring of breakdown, hitler got asspained after some britbongs bombing civilian target, and switched Luftwaffe focus to civilian targets in UK, giving RAF airfiels time to rebuild

Later on ?
>not developing proper heavy payload 4 engine bomber
>obssesion with V2,
it costed a ton, one V2 was 1,5 stugs, close to one panter or 1/2 tiger, and it was just terror weapon, no real tactical value
>obsession with super heavy/heavy tanks,
panther was MVP if they would develop Panther II faster with 88
>goering as luftwaffe boss,
idiot, incomepent idiot
>push for stalingrad and moscow instead of securing natural resources in URALus
>not forcing UK into peace before attacking russia was planning to attack but then again defense would be better for germans
>not having proper armament to deal with T-34
PZ III/IV which were main force at start of barbarossa were unable to fight T-34, 75/88mm armed platforms were needed for them

List is fucking long but this is major problems before breakdown after stalingrad.

>>138314863
It doesn't matter when you have a gigantic buttload of them

>>138294115
They lost because your mongrel nation got involved

>>138296642
are you a retard? what fucking white race,hitler wanted to destroy slavs completely who are also white, its good we fucked them up

>>138315004
>from the Frog
Remind me how France's larger tank force was a match for the German's superior tactics?

>>138314863
Simplified ones. Not 85, simplified, cheapened t-34.

>>138315006
Sorry about that bro

>>138315311
Again, which model? There are several models of the standard T-34 which vary from awful to the Model 1941 which everyone thinks of.

>>138294115
they lost because hitler was TOO autistic
the untermensch under his command just couldn't handle it

>>138315220
French did split thier tank force while germans would use concentrated units to break down.

Also that ivan is overestimating, one Tiger I wasnt that much worth, or T-34 that cheap to produce.

But it did hurt germans in first phase of barbarossa that PZIII/PZ IV were undergunned to deal with T-34. Even early models were armored enough to withstand 50mm german cannons on III/IV

By all means, T-34 was shity tank, transmission would break down, crew comfort was non existent, no radio in standard model... it was shit. Same as shermans. But in long run it had two major points, easy to operate by idiots and could be mass produced.

Thats why T-34 and Shermans won, and overenginered german tanks just got outnumbered later in war.

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>>138294115
also not gang rape Poland with the USSR

>>138301741
letting allies escape at dunkirk isnt goodwill retard,his generals ordered it so infantry could catch up with panzers

>>138296205
Then I'm glad they're dead, the pieces of shit

>>138315404
Due to the 'open source' in its design the price ranges, but, say, Uralvagonzavod made them, in 1942, for about 16.3k reichmarks. Tiger I's final cost, according to some, was 800k per unit, that most likely including the high repair costs.

>>138294115
They decided to be racist and fascist.

>>138301907

True, but it can't be said that the full might of the German army was concentrated in Stalingrad. Case Blue was a dash for the oil in the Caucuses, the most mobile units were pushing down the peninsula.

That's why Hitler said for Stalingrad to be taken and held at all costs. He knew that without Stalingrad his forces in the Caucuses would be cut off.

With a detailed combined operations plan, the Germans could have taken Moscow in 1941. Here is my idea of what I'd do before Operation Barbarossa.

1. Convince Mussolini in 1940 NOT to attack France. Italy will be a non-belligerent in the Western war. Convince Mussolini to commit troops against the Soviet Union.
2. No bullshit happens in the Balkans or North Africa that diverts resources south.
3. If Britain starts shit in the Balkans, let them. The Balkans are worthless except for Romania.
4. Strip Western Europe and Norway of their occupational armies, send them East. Control these countries politically, not militarily.

With the above, the most amount of German/Axis troops could be brought to bear against the USSR.

As for the plan for Barbarossa, things would need to move faster than they did IRL. Don't hobble the Panzers by making them wait for the infantry, plan for deep, deep and fast operations

The Russians had duplicated their communications and governmental system in Kuybyshev, another 1,000KM away to the East. I don't think that is possible for the Wehrmacht.

1. Eliminate the Soviet leadership, if possible.
2. Destroy the central communications hub of Moscow.
3. Prevent the mass movement of industry beyond the reach of German ground troops/Luftwaffle.

As before, if Germany can't decapitate most of the USSR in 1941, it can't win the war.

>>138294115
Should've attacked Russia over the flank. That's all.

File: 3F60125C00000578-0-image-a-34_1492596411674.jpg (55KB, 470x696px) Image search: [Google]

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and recognize that Germans and Russians were interbreeding since prehistory and many Russians could be considered the Aryan standard

T-34 was extremely cheps to make. The exchange rate of reichmark to ruble was like 1 to 10. T-34 would cost about 200k rubles.
Tiger price...
"Christopher W. Wilbeck, in "Sledgehammers: Strengths and Flaws of Tiger Heavy Tank Battalions in World War II", citing the Tigerfibel (the Tiger's manual), states that the final cost of the Tiger's production was much higher - 800,000 Reichsmarks - and 300,000 man-hours were required to produce one single Tiger. The Tigerfibel, in view of making those numbers more personal to the Tiger crewmen, stated that it was required one week of hard work from 6,000 people to produce one Tiger. It also stated that 800,000 Reichsmarks figure was equivalent to the weekly wages for 30,000 people."

>>138315716
Tiger I was down to 250k reichmarks in 44, the 42 ones were 800k.

Still panther was 117k reichmarks and by all means it was better tank. But german obssesion with heavies fucked them up in long run.

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Pic related OP

>>138294115
As 138294336# said:
>Shouldn't have fucked with Russia

In the dead of winter with limited supplies.

>>138294115

This video explains everything in less than 40 minutes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zinPbUZUHDE&feature=youtu.be&t=2m10s

>>138294115
Operation Barbarossa was started to late because Germany had to help Italy in Greece. If it had started on-schedule, Moscow and Stalingrad would've been taken before the winter.

>>138315917
Panther: 117000 Reichsmark (the Panther tank was one of the most cost-effective German tanks)

Tiger: 250800 Reichsmark (in 1942 the Tiger costs over 800000 RM)

Stug III: 82500 RM

Panzer IV: 103000 RM
Cost of T-34s

T-34 Model 1941: 270000 Rubles

T-34 Model 1942: 193000 Rubles

T-34 Model 1943: 135000 Rubles

T-34-85: 164,000 rubles
1 Reichsmark = 0.40$ in 1944

1 Reichsmarks = 2,22 Rubles in 1944

1 Rubles = 0.18$ in 1944

More or less, but yeah tiger I and II were mistakes in long run. Panther and Stugs were most efficient platforms on german side.

>>138302361

You're overestimating the importance of the UK after 1940.

What does Germany actually gain by the invasion of the UK? Britain's Empire would have just gotten gobbled up by America or Japan. That fat kike Churchill would have skipped off to Canada with all the gold and the Royal family.

Britain didn't become a factor in the ground war in Europe again until 1944. The war is already lost or won by then.

>>138315959
Panthers had a nasty flame problem. Plus I'm talking about 1942 prices, measuring prices from two different years is pointless.

Nobody in their right mind wouldn't say that Panther isn't better than t-34, or tiger isn't better than t-34, thing is, they were a pain to operate, build, repair.
Unlike soviet tanks, relatively.

>>138315440
>But it did hurt germans in first phase of barbarossa that PZIII/PZ IV were undergunned to deal with T-34
They were undergunned everywhere until late 1941.
>Same as shermans.
The Shermans were not even close to being shit.

>>138315716
Wasn't the cost of the Tiger I more like 250,00 RM? Going my calculations the rough ratio for Tigers to T-34s was 1:5 at the highest T-34 price and 1:11 at the lowest

>>138315972
Stupid meme thanks to video games and hollywood. The actual combat death ratio by the end of the war was about 1 german to 1.3 soviet soldier. Most of the casualties in those ridiculous statistics you see came from the POW camps

>>138295738
Also this.

>>138294115
They lost because they were being funded by Capitalists who were in the business of profit and did not care about politics.

>>138294115

Hilter was their mistake. He was good a flinging shit but horrible at war fighting and governing.

That's why they tried to blow his dumb ass up.

>>138316082
The Germans should have just focused on the Panzers and scrapped the Panther and Tiger altogether. Panzer IV was good enough for the purposes of the eastern front and was a far more polished machine than German medium or heavy tanks

Nuremburg was a show trial to gain sympathy for one sides story and not an actual trial with facts and evidence.

>>138316082
>1944
Here is 1935 currency conversion since I imagine Germany being on the road to defeat didn't do wonders for their exchange rates: https://forum.axishistory.com//viewtopic.php?t=6901#p1748030
>Stugs
StuGs were effective because the war turned to one of defence, where a low profile assault gun has a lot more advantages.

>>138316286
>American education

It really fucking wasn't as you say. A lot of Nazis were released in the trials. The Allies knew this event would be one of the most important things in western history and they wanted it to be as fair as possible to set a standard.

>>138316120
Shermans were undergunned, underperforming, underamored when faced with german tanks.
Lack of wet storage in first ones, and idiotic burgers keeping extra ammo on floor lead to "zippo" meme.

Still, every loss for germans was hard since they would lose experienced crew and costly machine. While USA could just spam shermans with so so crews. Worked.

>>138316103
Also problem with transmission, if you would rev to fast. They were overenginered, had many problem, still they were best Germans could spam.

But again as with Shermans, solid spam of t34 and 34/85 later would fuck up germans in long run.

Also lets be honest T-34 transmission would break down too quite fast, same for engine, unexperienced crews only bumped that up.

From quality perspective they were shit, but again spamable, disposable, easy to replace, not needing experienced crews. In attrition war this will win.


Also by saying "shermans and t-34 were shit" i`m not taking anything from them. They were better solution for German force than lower ammount of better equiped/more "perfect" tanks. Attrition wins wars, allways.

>>138316396
It was a show trial for a lie.

Many of the scientists were taken to the USA under Project Paperclip which was the beginning of JPL and NASA.

>"holocaust didn't happen" edgelords

I can't tell if they're just shitposting, or if the goyim really are this retarded.

>>138316222
It was just 10% between PZ IV and Panther, in price. Panthers were the most cost efficient platform for Germans.

Tho PZ IV was less prone for faliures. And it was NOT good enough for T-34 with 50mm cannon, germans in first stages of barbarossa had to use 88 flaks to fight T-34. It was tough nut to crack. Unless you want PZ IV with tsungen round that were rare as fuck and imposible to mass produce for germans.

>>138294115
They fucked up the day they attacked Slavs.
Never attack the Slavs.

>>138316616
I want to see the German concentration camp documents... What do you mean they were destroyed?

Exchange rate in German-occupied lands was 10 rubles to 1 (special occupation zone) reichmark.
Soviets intentionally made their currency cheaper, Germans intentionally made their currency pricier, the resulting exchange rate not being near old 2.2 rubles for 1 mark.

>>138316542
>undergunned
The 75mm was fine in North Africa and Italy, the US left their 76mm models in England during Overlord because they thought they didn't need them.
>underperforming
This is a bit vague, in what way did it underperform?
>underamored
The frontal slope gave it an good effective armour, like the T-34, that allowed it to maintain a reasonable level of protection throughout the war.

The Sherman has a reputation that it doesn't deserve, it was the reliable workhorse of the Allies for a reason and not just because the US could shit a load out.

>>138316775
>implying you've seen Auschwitz in person

>>138316582
lol which youtube video taught you that one

>>138316711

How many miles could a Panther travel before breaking the fuck down? They were the same pieces of shit that the Tigers were. Germans made Swiss watches to go to war. Russians made war machines. Just like the AK47.

>>138294115
Not paratrooping britain to death before invading the soviet union.

>>138316844
Not implying that I've seen Auchwitz.

Being an ass to ruffle feathers.

>>138316956
Sealion would have failed, if the RN was still a threat an invasion of the mainland would never have worked.

>>138317025
Imagine a massive invasion of London via paratroopers in 1940 just after the fall of France without you being prepared. The government would have been taken by surprise with the king and forced to capitulate. Not even necessary to fight in Africa.

>>138316870
I said Project Paperclip, the real name is Operation Paperclip, sorry.

This is from CIA, don't know if you would believe it though.
https://www.cia.gov/library/center-for-the-study-of-intelligence/csi-publications/csi-studies/studies/vol-58-no-3/operation-paperclip-the-secret-intelligence-program-to-bring-nazi-scientists-to-america.html&ved=0ahUKEwidy_ymtuXVAhVs6YMKHZDiBTQQFghNMAY&usg=AFQjCNGtzRPKL4uSev9yCAtiAGWhycf-Kw

>>138296206
USA was funding the allies and the communist scum way before they got officially involved in the war.

They were trying their hardest to put ropes around Germany's and Japan's necks.

if you want to learn more, watch The greatest story never told.

>>138317187
Paras would have to land undetected, then move to and through London to try take anyone of importance hostage. They'd neither have the supplies or time to do such a thing.

>>13838294115
Do the attack after a blitz.

>>138316896
All tanks of that era had similar problems, panther was also too overenginered I give you that and the sabotages in production lines bumped up faliure ratio.

Then again T.34 were even worse

>>138316829
Unless they faced Tiger I in africa (but those were rare). Hell allies would crap thier pants if the saw boxy tank (often IV were mistaked for tigers) It`s meme worthy but Tigers would make short work of 75 shermans.

>underperforming
first ones with crap side armor, no wet storage, slope was ok but then again 75/88 would make short work of it.

Now 76mm, with wet storage, extra armor is by far most efficient mass produced tank. Also give it and take but US crews werent as good as britsh or german.

Still I`m not hating on shermans or T-34 but you gotta addmit that they had many rough edges and were quite crude. But extremly effective from production point. Resources better spend than overenginered german tanks.

>>138294115
Instead of exterminating slavs they shouldve granted them freedom from bolsheviks. In the end, this would throw Russia into another civil war, with the side germany supported having higher chances of winning. Instead, crazy fool got overwhelimg partisan movement throughout the occupied territories and enraged soviet populace, fighting its way for revenge on germany soil.

>>138317187
You mean Skorzenny commandos ? Not enough of them. It would end up as market-garden, paratropers without land force arriving fast enough were dead meat back then.

Now what was posible, forcing UK into peace, cutting ties with Japan and then let US/UK fight in pacific.

>>138317512
>Unless they faced Tiger I
At range a Sherman could survive an 88 shot to the front.

>Still I`m not hating on shermans or T-34 but you gotta addmit that they had many rough edges and were quite crude.
The Sherman was neither rough or crude, it had the perfect mixture of aspects that makes a tank good (firepower, protection, mobility, reliability, liveability) but a jack of trades doesn't inspire the same feeling the over-engineered German tanks or truly massed produced Soviet ones.

>>138317661
And very this, back in 30`s Poland did still remeber bolshevik meanace from 1920.
We didnt liked jews ethier.

He could do the same with "annected" soviet land that hated bolsheviks with passion. But "muh mustard race" fucked up germany.

Still I laugh everytime when I realize a short, , black haried austrian copral made germans belive they are blond master race.

>>138312085
Jordan Peterson pls

>>138317835
You know what was good about shermans, front transmission. It was SO FUCKING EASY to open and exchnage.

The REAL selling point of sherman was easy maitenance. Now reparing Tiger I or Panther was just nightmare.

>>138318058
Again, it comes down to properly managing the aspects of a tank. The German cats were certainly impressive pieces of engineering, but just ate up parts and manhours.

>>138318203
Have you seen maitenance manuals ? Simple actions took few times longer compared to soviet and us tanks.

Even simple exchange of one track whell required dismantling half of them on side.

What germans had was 88mm, by all means that gun was perfection. With decent optics (also please no memes about crap russian optics, it wasnt that bad, just Ivans were bad at using them) it was great performer.

But enough about tanks, feel more like ranting about idiot goering destroying luftwaffe.

>>138318422
I'm well aware of the hilariously complex maintenance required for the tanks, its amazing how many times they tried to reinvent the wheel.

>goering destroying luftwaffe.
You mean Hurricanes destroying the Luftwaffe?

>>138294115
they were liberals, it was their destiny to lose

>>138294115

Hitler was a poor strategist. He took the advice of a psychic over his experts.

>>138318556
Hurris were good, but Merlin powered spits were THE shit. If we talk about RAF. Just imagine seeing 109 or 190 2-3kms over you, pushing WEP and zooming to fuck his shit up. Before merlin engines spits were "ok"

Ok bit of rant
190 were great, there is reason brits were called them butcher birds. 109 were agile nasty motherfuckers too. 109 having motor cannon (engine mounted 20mm and later on 30mm) had huge advantage in accuracy compared to hispanos in wings of spits.

But no idiot Goering during BOB made them carry bombs, "to help bombes" it would cut down the fight time over britan to about 4-8 minutes. This means german planes coulndt engane properly in first phases of BoB.

Now fucking obsession with twin engined heavy fighters, that were nethier agile, armored or had bombload and sucked up good engines to be used elsewhere.

Idiotic use of Ju-87 in BoB, while its place was as CaS when you have complete air control. Poland and France showed how good they were , Russia too since germans owned russian skies for long. But it was idiotic to send them over UK when they got slaughtered.

They banked on a British alliance and the US not entering the war. Lebensraum for all of europe was the long term goal. The entire planet conquered and unified by racial and ideological hegemony.

In another timeline people actually live in such a paradise.

>>138294115
Why isn't this on /his/?
Sage