Bill Whittle and Olavo de Carvalho are saying that nazism is

>>137870398
> Socialism is left wing, but national socialism is right wing

>>137870398
>Nazism is right wing
Are you 6?

>>137870398
Bill Whittle is a conservative. He's probably been called a nazi more a than a few times. He's simply trying to distance his political ideology from National Socialism.

Such a shame too because he's pretty based on most subjects except for "da jooz" and "ebil nazis".

>>137870398
>socialism to communism to .....anarchism?

Wut

>>137870398
>national socialism
>socialism
HMM I WONDER

>>137870674
>>137870820
>>137871885
So, it's a consensus of the right wing all over the world. Thanks!

>>137870398
People who consider themselves Right leaning in ideology, particularly Americans, want to believe that everyone they dislike is on the left. Americans in general have no idea where the terms left and right even come from. They almost always fallaciously conflate right with individualism, and left with collectivism. Despite these two latter characteristics falling on a completely different axis Americans still stupidly bundle them together.

Matter of factly speaking NatSoc isn't either left or right. It is centrist. Its the third position. Though explaining that doesn't make your simple minded audience feel good about themselves. People don't want to hear shades of grey, they want it all black and white. Good guys and bad guys.

>>137872129
nah you just need to read the name and check on wikipedia what socialism is
you don't have to actually care about politics at all to know that

>>137870398
>Nazism
>Not included under the "fascist" category
>Monarchism
>Not further right than fascism

Shit pic tbqh

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>>137870398
Stop posting that fucked up scale you marxist fuck.

The only worthwhile scale is based on how much government the sides want.

The far right is no government and the far left is total government control.

Notice how your political spectrum doesn't include the libertarians?

Yeah, big government to the left.

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>>137870398
Does China seem to you like anarchism you retard? Just asking if you know the basic difference between water and apple. All you capitalistic Christian shits can promote whole day and for years how Antifa is Communists, but it still won't be truth, not even after thousand years, while in the meanwhile you 30% white country will go 100% nigger. Enjoy your ignorance.

>>137870398
Nazis or National Socialism is, at best, Central Authoritarian. Modern Conservativism, at least in America, prevents this because Authoritarian government is mostly incongruent with most of their core beliefs. I'm not saying Neo-cons couldn't be convinced, but most Americans have a massive distrust for government overreach, at least the conservatives do. They don't want a government telling them what to do, say and think.

Hitler rose to power on massive healthcare and infrastructure promises, and to use government as a tool of the people to fix all the inequalities in the world. You could point parallels to any candidate of any party on that, so that's where it becomes dangerous to compare everything and everyone to Hitler. It cheapens the message and overall makes people blind to true Hitlers.

Olavo is communist

>>137872133
NatSoc is considered to fall on the right of the political spectrum because of it reinforces and strengthens societical inequality.

Moderately right-wing idealogies see inequality as an unavoidable component of society, moderately left-wing idealogies see it as something that can be mitigated.

Extremely right-wing idealogies see inequality as just and something to be cherished, extremely left wing idealogies see inequality as something inherently unjust and a product of society

>>137870398
>Liberalism
Its confusing because the Americans call their social democrats liberals.. In Europe, liberals are more the equivalent of Libertarians.

>>137873052
>NatSoc is considered to fall on the right of the political spectrum because of it reinforces and strengthens societical inequality.

Supporting Hierarchy is how you'd simply this.
And left ideologies support Anarchy. Liberalism.

Most don't understand this though.

>>137873052
There's no Nazis, that's just a name of political party you shortened from National Socialistic Workers Party and no "Nazis" weren't right wing, neither they were left wing, they were Socialism. Left wing and right wing is a term used for democracy and obviously China, Soviet Russia or Reich wasn't democracy, so left/right doesn't exists. Socialism doesn't votes for political parties, it has no left or right, it has one political party.
It's pointless to squeeze your democratic thinking unto Socialism.

>>137870398
>the fuck when pic related was shown in my civics class 10 years ago

>>137872796
>>137872609
Who gives a fuck about the pic you dumb fucking niggers? The thread have nothing to do with it. Fuck y'all!

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>>137873052
This
I think people overlook the obvious Socialism examples within Nazis and purely point to Nationalism and the racist end of it as proof it's "right wing" but it's really not.

>>137873400
You're a fucking retard

>>137873311
You're the most well-educated/intelligent person I've talked to today. I'm fairly tired but I hope you can continue to redpill the newfags in this thread after I go to sleep.

>>137870398
Left and right is a broken scale. The fact that Nazism and libertarianism are both considered "far-right" by leftists when there are ZERO points of agreement between the two indicates that there's not consistent measure of what makes a philosophy "left" or "right".

Or maybe the fact that classical liberalism, which most would peg as "left", is roughly the same as libertarianism. Why the fuck are they at two different points on the scale?

It's a stupid fucking measure.

>>137872609
The most retarded thing is that Anarchist don't even want a government, so they don't have a political party, they don't even think about politics. Anarchism isn't even politics, that's lack of politics. Mad Max doesn't do politics.

>>137873787
Not an argument.

>>137871789
you really don't understand the mind of a leftist, do you

>>137873052
>moderately left-wing idealogies see it as something that can be mitigated.
you'd think they'd have learned from experience by now, guess they don't believe in science

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>>137870398
but this is completely wrong for the american political spectrum?

>>137873794
It makes even less sense if you see how it changes depending on which country you're in.
In Germany classic liberalism is seen as slightly right of center while National Socialism is seen as far right.
Then you have progressive leftism which is right of classic leftism, although it's far more authoritarian in our country.

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>>137873794
Can you pull your head out of your ass and read something for once in your pathetic life?

They're both right-wing idealogies because they

>Maintain and support existing social structures and hiearchies (neither idealogy finds it morally offensive that some people have it better than others, whether it be through superior genetics or through inheriting wealth)
>Are formed/maintained in reaction to opposing idealogies which threaten the continued existence of said hiearchies and/or societical traditions

>>137875115
>Maintain and support existing social structures
in what sense, exactly, did national socialism do this

that's like saying nationalizing oil in south america maintained and supported existing social structures

you string words together coherently but they don't actually make sense

>>137875115
So left and right are based on how new something is? Am I not correct in thinking this is a completely fucking retarded scale?

Also, how the fuck can you apply that consistently when Nazism found it morally offensive that some people had it better than others economically?

>>137872291
>nah you just need to read the name and check on wikipedia what socialism is
>you don't have to actually care about politics at all to know that

and you need to check wikipedia what right wing means


also NK isn't democratic as well.

>>137875742
NK is democratic. They vote over there.

>>137873437
OP you are confirmed faggot.

>>137875932
yeah with one guy on the ballot

>>137875694
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left%E2%80%93right_political_spectrum

It is about where you are philosophically rooted along this simplistic axis. Does your ideology fall in line with supporting hierarchies? Then it is right.
Does your ideology fall in line with supporting the concept of anarchy in contrast to hierarchy? Then it is left.

Americans conceptualize this spectrum entirely wrong and it leads to people totally mischaracterizing ideas.

>>137875932
You really don't know jack shit, do you?

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>>137875546
>"The Germanic people are genetically superior to the Jews/Nigs/literally everybody else and have formed a great society as a result"
>"We should secure a future for the Germanic people, and any measures taken to ensure that future are justified"
What's so hard to understand about that?

>>137875694
>So left and right are based on how new something is?
you can ignore that guy, we're not in the age of monarchs anymore

>>137871789
Yes, thats what normally happens in communist societies.

:^)

>>137876260
Aryan doesn't means what you think it does. Aryan just means non-Jewish. Being Germanic is another term, which isn't necessary related to Aryan.

>>137876106
This really is a stupid scale. The fact that it concerns itself so strongly with hierarchies pretty much guarantees it was made by Marxists, who are wrong about pretty much fucking everything. Only they would find a way to put libertarianism and Nazism in the same camp.

State authority is a much stronger and more measurable scale than flatness of hierarchies, especially because humans don't exist in any context without hierarchies, and Marxist experiments have ended in the strongest, deepest hierarchies the world's ever known.

>>137876358
Name one country that was Communist and had anarchy.

>>137876338
The concept of what left and right represent didn't change, philosophy itself doesn't change.
Monarchism is to the right of American Republicanism. This will always hold true.
Ideas rooted in Liberalism will always be to the left. Egalitarianism for example is a left wing ideology.

>>137876577
Please stop embarrassing yourself.
Reading isn't hard. Open a book sometime.

>>137876260
Nothing at all, but what national socialism did was very far from what you said about existing social order.

The entire platform was about changing fucking everything.

I mean please describe to me in what sense exactly Hitler preserved and maintained the prior social order.

>>137876652
>Open a book sometime and educate yourself in the writings of pseudointellectuals who are wrong about everything

Nah, I prefer to read from those who can make accurate predictions about the real world.

>>137876796
Maybe read laws and see how world really works.

>>137876796
so you are getting all your education from bloggers and youtube commentators?

explains a lot...

>>137870398
The only difference between nazism and socialism is your opinion on race

>>137876796
You're not making a prediction about anything with this axiom. You're describing a political philosophy in very simple terms.

>>137876503
I don't know that much about the specific racial policies of Nazi Germany, but the general idea was that one group was deemed to be more capable and inherently suited to occupying the highest echelon of society than another.

That is an inherently right-wing ideal, you can argue all you want about what happens in practice when left-wing ideals are faced with reality, but there is no left-wing idealogy that explicitly endorses hiearchy and rigid social structures to the same extent that any offshoot of fascism does.

>>137873052
The political spectrum is a concept from a left point of view.
This is barely considered.

>>137877109
>there is no left-wing idealogy that explicitly endorses hiearchy
I am legitimately angry at you right now for being this stupid. It's seriously bothering me. If you're trolling, 10/10 for sure.

>>137876577
It predates Marxism bud, maybe you should read up on the origins of the term "left-wing" and "right-wing" before you continue shitposting.

>>137877660
look it up in a book
it's just how its defined

>>137877109
Being Aryan isn't enough to be part of German Lebensraum. You also had to be Germanic, not a priest and work based on rules of Nazi Germany. Every normal country enforces rules. Maybe you just too deep inside your system that you don't realize it that government provides internet, government provides language you speak, government provides electric sockets you use, government writes all rules. If government didn't make murder a crime then it wouldn't be a crime. When you work you work based on government rules, else you are a illegal. Paying taxes is government rule, else your country dies and you can be truly free like in Somalia where they have no rules, not even on their western boats, cattle, people and everything on the ground next to each other and rapes on toilets, where toilets might not have such clean rules as in your country. Many times capitalistic idiots don't realize that government can hire private companies to do work in name of government and build government ownership. You are centralize Federalist union. Problem of USA is that Democrats and Republicans don't support small business any longer like in past and the fact you mix big business with government, totally not why United States was made.

>>137877660
Where in the communist manifesto or any other leftist political treatise is it EVER stated that inequality is either

>Justified
or
>Unavoidable

Protip: it fucking doesn't. We are discussing the guiding IDEAS behind political idealogies, not how well they work in practice.

I'm sorry that you're autistic and know nothing about politics aside from what you gleaned from shitposting on here these past few months but you really should open a tab that isn't trap porn or 4chan from time to time.

>>137877660
That is strictly true.
The issue here isn't that he is misusing the term. The issue is that the term is misused colloquially, and people don't understand it.

A lot of political groups which Americans consider to be left wing are still pretty right when accurately placed on the spectrum. A lot of mainstream left ideas are still moderately right.

>>137878012
What the fuck are you even on about? I haven't explicitly stated my political ideals even once in this thread.

>>137870398
I don't understand this. Aren't liberals the ones for more central power to the government? Why is anarchism on their side?

>>137871398
He's right though. Nazism is a foreign ideology that has no place in America.

Nazism is a left wing ideology.

>>137878111
Communist manifesto and Hitler speeches aren't laws. Countries work based on laws, not speeches or books about ideology. I can threaten whole day here how i am going to kill somebody and genocide Jews, but speeches and internet message text aren't facts. Laws are facts.

>>137878415
A lot of leftist idealogies call for the complete abolition of the state you fucking slav.

>>137878111
>We are discussing the guiding IDEAS behind political idealogies, not how well they work in practice.
It isn't about practicality. Even ideally communism requires a hierarchy. There is no way even in principle to avoid it.

>>137870398
Explain how capitalism or freedom is a hybrid of communism and facism?

>>137875932
>flag
why am I not surprised?

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>>137870398
Fixed it

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>>137878413
IMAGINE MAH SHOK

>>137878734
The issue underpinning Communism is that its impossible.
You can't have a society truly free from government, free from class, free from capital even, unless you have someone enforce and administer Communism. This ideological inconsistency is what allows Commies to always claim "not real Communism."

Marxian socialism, if it were entirely voluntary, would be close to one of the most left things conceivable. Communist states in practice however are just a smaller aristocracy exploiting the newly created labor class which is everyone.

>>137878573
A majority of American leftists and Nazis aren't leftists or Nazis. Stop being fake news. Waving a Communist flag doesn't makes you a Communist, you can create 1000 Communist videos and you still aren't a Communist. You Mickey Mouse Christianity where everybody can join no matter how unchristian, no matter how Satanic, isn't how Socialism works. State controlls in Socialism who can join, it ain't Disneyland of freedom from any country. Socialism doesn't has migration and sorts people based on culture. In USA you are allowed to pretend to be somebody else, in Socialism we call this a lie and you would be punished.

>>137879072
This is what Molymeme fans believe.

>>137870398

A lot of people on /pol/ think that the socialist in National socialist party makes Nazis left wing when their views, actions and policy was that of a nationalist.

Nationalism is the worst thing humanity can cling onto even Hitler knew this as was using it as a mean to an end where the world was united under one flag.

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>eugenics
>ultranationalism
>private property
>moderate gun laws

>left wing
Lel.

>b-but nazis were buddies with commies for a while!
Remind me, who sided with commies and sold half of Europe to them after the war?

>>137876663
Fascism was about building a new social order after the left had destroyed the old one.

left:
>humans are born equal
>our purpose is cooperation
>wealth inequality is unjust
>hierarchy is oppression
>tradition has no value

right:
>humans are born different
>our purpose is competition
>wealth inequality is not unjust
>hierarchy is natural
>tradition is valuable

>>137870674
Their social policies tend to lean right?? Why's that always been so incomprehensible to Americans?

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>>137870398
All Police State Authoritarian Governments has sprung from the Left. Nazism included. Check history and you can't deny it.

The exception is Islamic Sharia states like Saudi Arabia, where the Totalitarianism springs from Right Wing extremism.

>>137876625
No country was communist. Communism implies a stateless community.

>>137870398
rofl what retard made that image

how is Fascism and National Sociaism more "far right" than conservatism

those big government loons are essentially leftists

Nazism is the left

Its socialism and government control

Anarchy and libertarianism are right

>>137880763
It's literally written in first sentences of Chinese and North Korean constitution that they are Communistic and have a goal of creating Socialism. Communism doesn't exists, but Socialism does.

>>137870398
Olavo de Carvalho is a jew lover.
Probably a crypto-jew too. I mean, the man call himself a catholic and still believe that it's the duty of all catholics to die for Israel

>>137870398
Where's traditional conservative libertarian w/ small gov?

>>137881037
You mean socialist, with the goal of creating a communist utopia?

>implying political science isn't dead

>>137870398
>fascism
>far-right
What the fuck is this shit ?

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>>137880396
>eugenics

>>137881236
Communism isn't utopia. Capitalism of Star Wars on planets where they have all automatized and everybody dancing together in harmony is utopia.
Utopia is where you think some billionaires will produce robots that will help humanity, an utterly wishful thinking. Socialism is where cultures work based on their culture and state keeps cultures separated from each other to produce optimal breeding conditions for one culture. Socialism doesn't needs alien DNA, Socialism doesn't seeks perfection, Socialism reached perfection, it does not need higher power, it is perfection of own culture. Utopia and capitalists think everything foreigner is better, Communist know they are the best.

>>137881315
Probably stemming from commie propaganda calling fascists reactionaries and thus right-wing, even though fascism is revolutionary as well, just opposing communism.

Socialism is left wing.Nazi's are not conservatives

>>137881361
That changes nothing, what is your point?

>>137881854

Nazis are not Socialist you fucking cretin.

>>137880654
It was the 30s and 40s, of course it was more traditionalist. Abortion and Euthanasia immediately kick it out of being right-wing socially.