my friend is a socialist, i'm trying to explain why minimum

>>137827239
Nothing in life is free, and with Jews in congress taxing the rich means literally nothing

>>137827239
Minimum wage at least to my understanding is fine as a general concept. However, the issue is that it's an arbitrary concept. Raising it means raising expenses to hire people for employers, raising price of goods and services, raising cost of living overall, which reduces what your wages actually get you. For example, I live in Washington State, King county to be specific. Here we've got $15 minimum wage in some cities no joke. Sounds crazy compared to $5 minimum wage in some parts of the south. Except, in the south their rent is that much cheaper, and cost of living is so much lower, that you actually have to work more hours here to afford rent.

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a minimum wage is not a living wage.
the entire bottom bracket of full time employment cannot afford to live in a home, have children, drive a functional legal vehicle, or pay the ridiculous amount of insurance the state now demands.

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>>137827239
There will always be people who are willing to work for lower wages if they don't have jobs, which are often illegals and thus wont pay tax, and this leaves people who are citizens/legal unemployed thus can't pay tax, and government decides the best approach to this problem is more illegals protection and gibs for all. Government will spend more money and get less in tax, making the deficit every year until we solve this problem by removing the minimum wage, which would reduce the cost of things too so people would buy more and generate tax so we can pay the debt. At this point, why commit a crime when to save a few bucks when citizens can do the job? You'd hire legally.

>>137827239
No. We need to get rid of welfare for a higher minimum wage. A minimum wage is regulated to work within labor laws. It is necessary for a base pay to be established so you can work up. If a company can decide wage then you would all be slaves lol.

Ask your friend what the minimum wage should be.
Double it.
Ask him why he hates poor people so much.

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>>137827437
>Nothing in life is free
Good goy. If the workers demand enough to live on, where will the CEO get his next yacht?

>>137827239
Youre preventing people whose labor is worth less than the minimum wage from even PARTICIPATING in the free market. I cant think of anything more anti-worker than that.

Minimum wage employees are the bottom of society. These people's opinions do not matter. They are either illegal aliens, teens, or losers that make consistently bad life choices. So who the fuck cares what they think or say, they aren't even smart enough to not be poor losers.

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>>137828831
Nigger, I mean someone has to pay for what you get.
You can set minimum wage to any number, but the economic impact of most of those numbers would be awful.

>>137828257
Yes, but in many places you can work 2 minimum wage jobs and still not afford an apartment, food, health insurance and bus pass.

>>137828468
>get rid of welfare
MUH NEETBUX REEEEEEEE
>If a company can decide wage then you would all be slaves lol.
Yeah. If workers don't have some bargaining power, wages go down to subsistance level. And thus they won't ever be able to build up capital and there won't be spontaneous competition.
It's what they're trying to do with globalization and immigration. Eliminate the bargaining power of workers.

>>137828831
Do you think that the guy running a small business is buying yachts and mansions?

>>137827239
You should garrote your lefty "friend" with an extension cord and make it look like a suicide.

lmao if you don't even know the 'why' of your argument, then maybe you shouldn't be making it.

>>137829227
He's also not the one lobbying hard to fuck the workers more.

>>137827239
I like it because it keeps the negro down

>>137827239
It makes it harder for smaller businesses to afford more employees which causes them to lower there employee count which causes a lack of service which causes a lack of profits which causes this to go back to the beginning which

>>137829398
>You should garrote your lefty "friend" with an extension cord and make it look like a suicide.

to bad we don't live close enough to each other anymore. Plus he's got shit vacation days that he wouldn't spend to take me out.

>>137828353
This guy's diagram is the correct answer. His rambling response is just kind of filler. Basically, the minimum wage establishes a price floor. This imposes a limit on the number of jobs that will be offered, and this causes unemployment.

It's important to understand why the minimum wage is defensible, though. Basically, when we establish a minimum wage, we're saying that we would rather have people not work at all rather than work for such a small amount. It's like banning child labor: we decided that it's better for children to not be allowed to work, so that way they can go to school and learn to be more productive once they eventually enter the labor force. So a minimum wage just high enough that people have to get more training and work more lucrative jobs is maybe justifiable. But you'll never see that from a liberal-activist-type.

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-Because people who are unemployed still make more money than those working a full time minimum wage job.- so

>>137829960
Op says, "but it will never get that way" in regard to
>we're saying that we would rather have people not work at all rather than work for such a small amount

>>137829960
i see what you mean, but if an employer is only willing to pay a small amount then only people willing to take that sum would be willing to work for them. and the plus side of that is that inexperienced workers would be able to gain job experience. highschoolers etc.

>>137827239

Adam Smith -

Where wages are not regulated by law, all that we can pretend to determine is, what are the most usual; and experience seems to shew that law can never regulate them properly, though it has often pretended to do so.

The point of minimum wage is to be the minimum that will provide for ONESELF is it not?

>>137827239
bring up homeless people who aren't allowed to work because their skills are worth 9 dollars an hour instead of 9.50 an hour.

>>137827239
Explain that in his socialist dreamland (Scandinavia) there is no such thing as a minimum wage by law.

It would not be illegal for me to pay someone $1. But since they'd make more on unemployment benefits, nobody would do it.

>>137827239
Because employers are not obligated to stay in the United States, nor are they obligated to hire employees. Having a high minimum wage forces employers to increase prices (defeating the purpose of giving more money to your employees), cut workers (a bad job is better than no job), or force their existing workers to work harder (I don't know how many people are willing to work 10-11 hours a day). And with the rise of automation, raising the minimum wage just gives the employers another reason to purchase robots.

Minimum wage jobs are meant for people under 30, not adults who have graduated college/university, and can work a job that requires actual skill.

>>137827708
Yeah I live in thurston county and I'm pretty sure our government is actually retarded

>>137830508
faggot

>>137831236
Yes, and in many parts of the country it is not.

>>137827239
Let's imagine you can create a job position, for simple job a teenager can do. You can pay $6/hr, cause the job is so simple, and the product of the job is not worth more than that.
Now imagine there's 500.000 small business in that situation.

If you have a $7/hr minimum wage, you destroy that jobs, because at that price the jobs do not exist.

Do you follow? Minimum wage is just price control, and it can be as destructive.

https://www.spartareport.com/2016/03/us-minimum-wage-laws-ruined-american-samoas-economy/

>>137827239


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNa6tNUt8dQ

>>137827239
>i'm trying to explain why minimum wage hurts the american worker.
Weak argument. Ask him instead if he is so concerned with the plight of the common worker then why does he support the unlimited importation of third worlders into the nation willing to work for unsustainable wages. Merely secure the borders, and you will find that wages will rise naturally without an underclass of cheap illegal immigrant labor pressing prices down.

>>137827239
Here are some points
>It makes getting a starting job harder to get/keep due to employment expenses, effectively making their wages $0 instead of $15
>Makes it harder to run a small business
>All the profits from minimum wage workers spending more are far smaller than the costs to double their pay
>Most poor people were forced to leave cities with high minimum wages do to the cost of living being higher and being unable to get jobs