Why are you against free migration, /pol/? According to economists,

>>137659303
>open borders would double the world's real GDP.
>that matters
kys

>>137659436

Why wouldn't doubling the world's capacity to produce goods and services matter?

Race =Family
Family over money

>>137659303
money matters more than i.q race and religion

Schlomo your Jewishness is showing


S A G E

>>137659303
>Yes. Let's ignore the intricate borders our ansestors spend decades and even centuries establishing. Because everyone in the past is dumb and /iamverysmart/

>>137659802

Race = Millions of strangers who shared an ancestor thousands of years ago.

>>137659303
I'm not against free migration. I'm against government handouts and both applauding and subsidizing negative cultures and third world belief systems that don't belong in the modern world.

You can call me a nazi if you want.

>>137659741
because the western world already produces enough goods to keep herself quite content you nigger loving jew

>>137660240

I'm against welfare payments too. Why would you assume that I'm not?

>>137659991
>religion
I'd take money over bullshit anyday.

>>137660334

Economic scarcity still exists in the western world. Relatively poverty and even absolutely poverty are still issues in the West.

>>137660499
>absolutely poverty
did the industrial revolution fix that when it came about?
no it didn't
so how would moving people around fix that?
besides
>Relatively poverty
>that is a thing

>>137659303
And it would all end up in the hands of (((you know who))).

>>137659303
You see, with the modern level of automation, if we use biological weapons in Africa to wipe out the niggers and muslims and gas the kikes, the world GDP per capita will grow by 800%, because we will have less mouths to feed and all the shit for ourselves.

Full globalization and open borders are the inevitable outcome of technological progress. It's going to come sooner or later, and you can try to delay it but there's really nothing you can do to stop it.

>>137660377
Because you wouldn't ask about the former without first achieving the latter. Free migration without the dismantlement of welfare systems is nonsense.

Am I against free migration? Under current circumstances, of course. And since I think that so are you... this thread is pointless.

>>137659303
>double GDP
>quintuple the population
something tells me you're not saying something.

>>137659303
what you suggest would cause my quality of life to plummet

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>>137659303

>GDP is more important than harmony, happiness, security, etc.

market fetishists disgusts me

yeah, I'll pay $2 more for my grapes, hold the gang rape and degeneracy, thank you

>>137660733

The industrial revolution did help solve the problem of absolutely poverty.

As for "moving people around", a person's level of productivity isn't inherent. Your productivity depends on the machines your working with, your coworkers, the environment you're working in. A Somali person in his native country may only produce as much as 1000 dollars worth of goods and services in a year but if he moves to New York he can drive a tax and earn 30,000 dollars per year.

>>137659303
Because I though socialists were against the rich getting richer

>>137659303
Liberals are all about economics until you mention the economic problems with their policies, then I'm a greedy bastard for being obsessed with money.
Really gets the noggin joggin

>>137661008
>globalization
>with open boarders

>>137661210
Ah yes make one of the most overpopulated cities even more populated. Very good oh and now everyone gets first world delights I'm sure this is great for the enviroment.

>>137659303
literal fucking retard. If you have open borders, all the poor people go to the richest places so they can get better benefits (welfare).
Or have you not been paying attention for the last fucking 40years?
(((economists))) have discarded their integrity to push a political agenda.
OR HAVE YOU NOT BEEN WATCHING FOR THE LAST 40 YEARS?
Fucking neck yourself, anyone thats not been asleep knows you're talking out of your ass. All it means is noone sends money to the poor countries anymore because they havent fucking got any spare, being as their wages are pushed thru the floor by excessive competition and they have to pay to support a leeching, incompetent 3rd world population in their countries. Oh yeah. Did i mention the leechers want to kill all the white locals because they own more things than them? Because they work and buy them? Instead of expecting them for free?
Sage fucking shill thread

>>137659303
I 'increase gdp' selling my asshole too but i choose not to.

Its my fucking choice that i have a right to make in my country where i pay taxes and migrants have zero say in it

>>137661339

I'm not a liberal. I'm a libertarian.

>>137661191
This, more than likely you won't even see a discount they'll charge you regular price and make a killing because of their use of cheap labor furthering the cycle of the rich getting richer and poor getting poorer. Migration hurts all countries involved in the long run.

>>137661210
His work in Ethiopia does more for the net gain than his taxi driving.

There's fascets of human society besides services providing.

>>137661210
>The industrial revolution did help solve the problem of absolutely poverty.
did it? Funny because I am working twice as much with a lot less land because of the industrial revolution

>As for "moving people around", a person's level of productivity isn't inherent. Your productivity depends on the machines your working with, your coworkers, the environment you're working in. A Somali person in his native country may only produce as much as 1000 dollars worth of goods and services in a year but if he moves to New York he can drive a tax and earn 30,000 dollars per year.
huh.. Doesn't bringing more people in to a place increase the amount of people needed to service those people? Doesn't sound like that solves the problem. Sounds like it makes it worse.

>>137659303
If the HDI and per capita incomes of all nations were equal, open borders would be a good idea.
Currently, it's only implementable for first world nations.

>>137659303
Doubles global GDP average by taking from the rich countries and giving it to Muslim and African nations
>kys

>>137662022

Open migration is beneficial because of the huge differences between countries. If all countries had equal per capita income, there would be very little incentive to immigrate.

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>>137659303
Denmark - population 5.7 million, GDP $300 Billion
Bangladesh - population 163 million, GDP $250 Billion

Listen goy, if you just imported the entire population of Bangladesh into Denmark, you would almost double Denmark's GDP! Sure there might be a slight decline in the quality of life, but think of the economy!

>>137662376
so how does that help the poor countries get richer genius?
How does that end inequality? It doesnt. It perpetuates it.
And all so you can pretend you're a good person.

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>>137659303
I have no problems with European and Anglo immigration to the States. However I am against importing worthless nonwhites by using outdated methods instead of adopting automation. 15% of our population is foreign born most of them being nonwhites.

>>137661008
>What is Automation

>>137659741
Because doubling the amount of wealth created does not make everybody twice as rich. It makes the very wealthiest much wealthier. At best, the rest of us become marginally richer, and at worst, it makes the majority poorer and contributes to job loss and de-industrialization

>>137659303
>double the world's GDP
I'll be OK with this once I am making most of my money from investments and I live in a forest far away from civilization.

>>137662639

I never said inequality is bad. As I said, you're all assuming I'm a leftie. I'm a libertarian. As for poor countries, the workers who remain in those countries would see increases in their wages and families of emigrating workers would receive remittances. But generally, the biggest winners would be the workers who immigrate and earn much higher wages abroad.

My anus isn't ready for rapeugees yet.

>>137662376
Why do you think that some countries are poor? Do you think there is something magical about eastern Asia, north America, western Europe, etc? What causes poverty? I'm interested.

>>137663184
at the detriment of the native workers who would see a decrease in wages due to a surplus of workers, an increase in real estate prices and a decrease in living standards

>>137663651

Immigrant workers don't have the same set of skills as native-born workers so they're not substitutes in production. Immigrant labor complements native-born labor, so wages could in fact increase for the average native-born worker.

>>137663902
>Immigrant workers don't have the same set of skills as native-born workers so they're not substitutes in production.
kek nice statement you have there! Like some proof of that

> Immigrant labor complements native-born labor, so wages could in fact increase for the average native-born worker.
idk anon. if there is an increase in the supply of a product the value of the product naturally decreases

Who this?!

>>137664198

You need to take a course in labor economics, anon. If immigrant labors and not similar to native born labor, it's misleading to conceptualize all laborers as one type of input for production. If two workers are sufficiently different, they're not really substitutes in production and it's more useful to think of them as different types of inputs (that's why labor economists sometimes distinguish routine labor from non-routine labor, high-skilled and non-skilled, etc).

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>>137659303
"The world"
How about these "enriched" lands? The value drops, it's just good for the less country's.
We are working on automation so in the few instances it's useful (filling jobs nobody really wants) we would be taking in people, keeping them busy for a few years
then telling them to stay home and collect a check.
Worse still, is that automation isn't just for the jobs nobody wants, were going to have allot of people who need money, food etc soon.

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>>137661540

Go be a globalist libertarian somewhere else.

>>137663184
you're in denial. The more benefits the first world pays to immigrants, the less disposable income they have to give to charity, which aids the third world.
Not only are you stripping the third world of its most enterprising people, you are starving it of the only funds which keep it from descending into famine and anarchy. MILLIONS die, because you want to virtue signal.
Just wind it in. If you were a libertarian you would believe people wouldnt have to pay 3/4 of their earnings to keep other people alive who refuse to support themselves. You would belive it was their choice to give to charity, instead of a governemnt stepping in and garnishing their wages.
More than anything, your premise is retarded - if everyone moves to the first world, and no one pays for the third world, what fucking jobs are you expecting the third worlders to get?
Manufacturing? In africa? Theyr gonna meet the standards for sure arent they!
Just face it. Immigration has absolutely no benefit to anyone in the host country. Even for skilled imports its still some foreigner taking a job and the training for that job from a local person. Why? That guy then needs benefits that i have to pay for, and all so the company can charge more profit than they deserve by cutting their labour costs unfairly. Plus i have to pay the government for the benefits the company gets for diversity quota-ing.
Tell me one benefit of immigration for the host country. Not the companies or the individual. The country

>>137664938

I'm not a globalist. I don't support international organizations like the UN, WTO, etc. I merely think that governments should allow people around the world to associate and trade with each other voluntarily.

>>137665027

Here's a concise economics lesson from Bryan Caplan, friend.

https://youtu.be/uXMnAPGY1uE

>>137664679
>If immigrant labors and not similar to native born labor, it's misleading to conceptualize all laborers as one type of input for production.
why? We all start out as low skilled laborers. By bringing in more unskilled laborers you increase the amount of people who could specialize, including immigrants who come. who then lower standards of living

>>137659303
Yeah it would make the richest richer and destroy the middle class.

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>>137659303
(((GDP)))

It's the biggest Jewscam measurement to scam "birth rates" as a cause for cultural "replacement" (insane communist concept). Ebbs and flows are 100% natural and important. leftist-Jews treat the world like culture doesn't exist. They want to eradicate it. Sick, pollute mental disease, where the world is their toy to fuck with like no one matters.

GDP translates to shor-term "gains" while sacrificing any hope of prosperity and peace. Exactly what the elites want. Elites can afford to live anywhere, anytime. They want to exploit the world and don't care about local prosperity and cultural cohesion. They don't care about peace. Elites live in ivory towers. Leftists live in mental ivory towers.

>>137664679
what fucking job can an immigrant do that a local cant? Name one job that an illiterate african can do that a western white man cant. What fucking bullshit. Fucking labor economics. You youth are so fucking gullible, you have completely lost the ability to think for yourselves. Total indoctrination. A teacher actually told you that foreign workers have a different niche that perfetly complements the whole.....what a fucking load of bollocks. I guarantee you i know more about labour economics than your teacher. I guarantee i would know more if i had never fucking heard of money.
Yeah i mean because there is so much shit that say, muslims from the middle eastern deserts or chinese from the grotty tower blocks have to bring to our imperfect society. you know like knowing what it's like to not have any personal agency or take responsbility for your actions FOR YOUR ENTIRE FUCKING LIFE.
Yeah, if only we knew how to do that! Teach me achmed, my puny white brain doesnt know how to live for free off welfare my entire life...pleeease. pleeeease lend me your wisdom

>>137665673

If you're not entering the work force with more skills than the average immigrant worker, you're doing something wrong.

>>137665335
HAHAHAHAHAHA
>I cant make the argument so here is a video who can

>>137666199
not an argument

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>>137662376
Nonwhite immigration has also made us unlivable, tons of people want the 1965 immigration act removed in favor of more Europeans and Anglos to come here. Most EU countries are getting loads of niggers and arabs. A lot of them do want to come here and are beneficially better then what we currently get. I rather have tons of Slavs and Brits coming here then Spics and Asians.

>>137666394

Why should society give up large economic surpluses just because some high school dropout retards might suffer because of immigrants?

>>137666532
why should a people give up their heritage and culture for a beast that only feasts on them?

>>137659741

the point at which you believed that this would happen is where you went wrong - better luck next time.

>>137665335
comedy.
>no you dont understand, you just need to listen to more nonsensical propaganda by "economics experts" who are demonstrably the most incompetent "economists" who have ever lived or practised the field.
Or do you actually think that rampant inflation, constant market crashes, complete lack of integrity or accountability, plummeting wages, spirralling wealth gap, and the richest people in the world having more money than actually could ever really exit in the world is a fucking IMPROVEMENT on the economic thinkers of the rest of history?
Your modern gods are heretics and traitors. They have no fucking clue what they are doing, and only care about enriching themselves. Like im gonna take a lecture from a fucking eunuch

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>>137666771
Because communists and leftist-Jews hate people. They hate culture. They hate global diversity. Anyone they can't exploit like a human pawn stripped of their individuality is a threat to their horrific cold calculated bottom line masked my propaganda appealing to sheep.

>>137659303

>this bullshit thread again

why are you bumping it /pol/?

stop

(((Economists)))

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so i was watching the underground fight on https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TWCEV5U09c
and i noticed from between 6.40 to 6.46 you can clearly see an antifa faggot club an old man with his back turned in the head, putting him to the floor. The cunt then skips off into the crowd. Do what you do pol. Find this fucker and bring him to sweet, sweet justice.
>inb4 notmypersonalarmy

Remember when /pol/ had a sizable libertarian population? Now its just economically-ignorant high school dropout alt-right losers.

>>137667704
yeah those stupid rural and suburbanite retards

>>137667704
Those are the same Libertarians, they've just grown up and so will you.

then start with the fake state of Is-ra-hell. Open borders and open immigration for that excrement hole.What (((Barbara Lerner Specter))) said about Sweden will be imposed on Is-ra-hell. #KalergiPlanforIsrael #MorgenthauPlanforIsrael #freeMordechaiVannunu #noNUKESforIsrael

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>>137659303
That better be a real girl or my boner is going to be very confused

>>137667704
>economically illiterate
well i think we've proved you dont have ANY evidence to back up your infantile naivety, and you dont even understand the basics of supply and demand, so maybe you should consider that your condescension is utterly ironic.

>>137668304

No, I understand the basics of supply and demand very well. I'm a first year economics PhD student. You don't understand the idea of heterogeneous labor inputs.

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>>137659303
>According to economists
I wish everyone would warn people that an idea is really bad from the start just like this.

>>137661191
>i'll pay more..
>hurr ill just pay more for everything cause im swimming in money
ya if u can even afford it you fucking idiot moron.

>>137659303
ASIA FOR THE ASIANS, AFRICA FOR THE AFRICANS, WHITE COUNTRIES FOR EVERYBODY!

Everybody says there is this RACE problem. Everybody says this RACE problem will be solved when the third world pours into EVERY white country and ONLY into white countries.

The Netherlands and Belgium are just as crowded as Japan or Taiwan, but nobody says Japan or Taiwan will solve this RACE problem by bringing in millions of third worlders and quote assimilating unquote with them.

Everybody says the final solution to this RACE problem is for EVERY white country and ONLY white countries to “assimilate,” i.e., intermarry, with all those non-whites.

What if I said there was this RACE problem and this RACE problem would be solved only if hundreds of millions of non-blacks were brought into EVERY black country and ONLY into black countries?

How long would it take anyone to realize I’m not talking about a RACE problem. I am talking about the final solution to the BLACK problem?

And how long would it take any sane black man to notice this and what kind of psycho black man wouldn’t object to this?

But if I tell that obvious truth about the ongoing program of genocide against my race, the white race, Liberals and respectable conservatives agree that I am a naziwhowantstokillsixmillionjews.

They say they are anti-racist. What they are is anti-white.

Anti-racist is a code word for anti-white.

>>137659303
And blend the world into one nigger-Asian-spic blend of Muslims and Christcucka with a a small minority of Jews running the world

>>137659303
>According to economists, open borders would double the amount of money the 0.1% already has while stagnating wealth of everyone else
FTFY you fucking shitposting cunt

>>137668634
maybe next time you can let that show instead of letting your teachers down

>>137668634
seriously give it up. I dont understand the idea of a diverse workforce? Are you retarded?
So spell out these amazing benefits that you were indoctrinated into... and fyi if you think a phd intimidates me then you're a fucking muppet. Everyone i know has one. They are equivalent to o levels in the sixties nowadays, in prestige and content.

Dumb, economically ignorant alt-right shitposters BTFO

>This paper asks the following question: what was the effect of surging immigration on average and individual wages of U.S.-born workers during the period 1990-2004? We emphasize the need for a general equilibrium approach to analyze this problem. The impact of immigrants on wages of U.S.-born workers can be evaluated only by accounting carefully for labor market and capital market interactions in production. Using such a general equilibrium approach we estimate that immigrants are imperfect substitutes for U.S.- born workers within the same education-experience-gender group (because they choose different occupations and have different skills). Moreover, accounting for a reasonable speed of adjustment of physical capital we show that most of the wage effects of immigration accrue to native workers within a decade. These two facts imply a positive and significant effect of the 1990-2004 immigration on the average wage of U.S.-born workers overall, both in the short run and in the long run. This positive effect results from averaging a positive effect on wages of U.S.-born workers with at least a high school degree and a small negative effect on wages of U.S.-born workers with no high school degree.

http://www.nber.org/papers/w12497

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>>137668634
Let's look at the situation from a different frame. If you are a businessman who wishes to locate his business in a first world white country because of the high social trust, orderly institutions and low crime rate, but you are not intelligent or industrious enough to run this business profitably without importing a low IQ third world workforce, then perhaps you are just not cut out for competing in the first world business environment. I would recommend that such people either take up waged labor in the service of a more effective businessman, or relocate to the third world, where their business talents will be more competitive.

>>137669538
>http://www.nber.org/papers/w12497
>54 page paper
>im gonna read it for a retarded 4chan arguement
didnt the internet explode around that time?

>>137669538
>an infinite source of unskilled, outsourced foreign labour results in general equilibrium of supply and demand.
You need to sack your teacher anon. This is just too funny.

>>137669538
Also once again, your premise and your retarded article are fundamentally flawed - you are working from the premise that all immigrants are workers.
Not even 10% of them are, the rest are benefit tourists, certainly in britain anyway.
And you're not taking into account the economic cost of paying benefits for those workers that are replaced. The entire study is flawed and unscientific, and i dont even need to read it, just that one paragraph. Its totally fabricated to give a required result, like the vast majority of modern "intellectualism", and why noone takes you seriously anymore.

>>137670308

>I understand labor economics better than a LSE professor

Are you serious?

>>137659303
Sho2 me that porecelain pink pucci

>>137659741
MUH CONSUMERISM

>>137659303
I'm against open borders in my country for the same reason I'm against open borders in my house. If your Pro open border is in your country you should be Pro open borders in your house as well. Let everyone in. Let them eat your food sit on your couch use your bathroom and change the atmosphere of your house. Also be sure to tell everyone that your house is open.

>>137659303
>someone shitting claims out of their ass without any evidence to back it up claiming to be an expert
I thought I ordered the clowns only for yesterday night

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>>137659303

Wow, it all makes sens... oh?

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBRxt5ufnGg

Open em up.

>>137669538
comedy. even better. Your article brazenly claims that wages have got comparatively HIGHER for workers between 1990 and 2004.
Fucking kek. Seriously. Yeah people are paid better in relation to the cost of living now than in 1990.
And that should be all the proof you need that you're a retard. The fundamental claim of that article is demonstrably untrue, and anyone thats been working during that time instead of sitting in a classroom trading blowjobs for indoctrination could have told you that

It probably would double the world GDP. Cheap labour is good for business.

Who gets all that extra cash? All the corporations are doing great now, stocks are ballooning -- but salaries are stagnant.

What you'll get with a borderless world is basically the third world everywhere instead of just the third world.

>>137671129
yes. because your professor knows nothing except how to bamboozle halfwits with nonsensical made up language and obviously flawed theories.
I thought i was pretty clear, if you had a REAL economics teacher, i wouldnt be able to make that claim. But unfortunately they dont exist anymore. Just jewish propaganda to prop up the fractional reserve lending banking classes

>>137671502
no anon. you dont understand. Different people from different countries want different houses, so that makes everything okay. They dont all want the same house you see, they like different styles. Glad we got that all sorted out. Problem solved, open the borders

stop bumping this thread you retards. sage

>>137659303
If you believed in all this open borders BS, you'd illegally cross over into Canada and demand gibs. I'm still waiting for the mass liberal exodus promised after Bush in '04, and none of you faggots delivered. I'll give Gerard Depardeu (so?) credit though; man migrated to Russia because he was sick of French taxes.

>>137659303
Economists don't know fucking shit. Most of these clowns are unironically keynesians in 2017

>>137659303

why are boys so cute

>>137671676
>tfw you'll never nut inside of abbey martin while you choke her

Economics does not justify White genocide

>>137659303
Only if we get rid of these welfare programs that give priority status to illegals.

I have no problem with other people coming into the country, but I expect them to produce for themselves like everyone else. Welfare programs only serve to make taxpayers poor and to make recipients dependent/unskilled.

>>137674358
Because they have male brains and know what men want the most in a female.

Truth to be told, I would marry a biological female with a male brain in a heartbeat.

>>137672968
that analogy doesn't hold up actually. The country is the house. Them wanting different houses in the country is basically them wanting different rooms in the house. But you're missing the metaphor, because it's not a metaphor. Open the borders of your house in reality. Until you do that you are not for open borders.

>>137659303

YOU CAN HAVE EITHER OPEN BORDERS OR YOU CAN HAVE SOCIAL SUPPORT

PICK ONE YOU FUCKING LEFY CUNT

>>137659303

This is a LIE!!!!

"Immigration is no panacea to economic growth."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/10844765/Mass-immigration-not-the-secret-to-economic-growth-says-OECD.html

>>137659303
Money isn't real.
What are you gonna do with your millions when there are no products because of overpopulation?
Where are you gonna get those millions from when you can't get a job because schlomo hires only ahmeds to do the jobs not done by machines and pajeets to control the machines?

Making goldbergstein's fortune grow isn't the goal, making PEOPLE's lives better and happier is the goal.

>>137661191
>I'll pay $2 more for my grapes
Try $10. Your lifestyle, as it is, is supported by migrant workers. They make up agriculture, construction, and a lot of transportation.

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>>137659303
that might be the dumbest shit i have ever heard in my life.

>>137676756

1) If whole industries depend on what is effectively subsidization via paying illegal laborers peanuts and cannot survive without such subsidies then the market for it ought to rightly shrivel into

2) $10 is a retarded figure, unless you have a legitimate citations. iirc labor costs in the poultry industry only amount to like 6% of gross cost of production, I imagine the margins are relatively similar in the agro industry

3) I would still rather have some inflation from overall higher wages and less immigration and pay $10 for grapes in lieu of what we have now: Mexicans, crime, and the browning of a nation

immigration > emigration
>tfw

>>137659303

By closing all borders, businesses have to pay more for labor driving wages up. How tragic

With fewer people entering the country, there is less of a demand for housing, meaning that as the population declines the cost of a house goes down, making it easier for people tobuy the aforementioned houses

With automation in the wings, we are already seeing jobs lost to robots. In 10 or 20 years when there are half the manual labor jobs and a lessened degree of white collar jobs, you only get more unemployed people.

When the best and brightest leave buttfuck nowhere africa to come to the US, we get a moderate boost but buttfuck nowhere looses the best bet they have to start the farm that will feed the entire village.

>>137660499
Most of the west's poverty is derived from either problems endemic to the individual or immigration devaluing labor

>>137663184
And the losers are people who lose their job or quality of life because some indian will do their job for 1/2 the cost because he is willing to live with six roomates in a 2 bedroom apartment, a huge step up from india yes, but a step down from USA

>>137663902
For manual labor jobs, AKA entry level, skill level isn't an issue, which makes it more difficult for youth to work there whey into the upper echelons of society

>>137666199
The poorest people can't afford the entirety of the training they need to enter with more skill then an immigrant, relegating them to manual labor.

>>137666532
Those retards turn to criminality or leach off the state, as do many immigrants, decreasing total quality of life

>>137667704
Former libertarian here who realized that volk is more important then raw economic power.

>>137671129
That is what we call an "appeal to authority" 'round here

>>137659303
> Yeah, utopia is right here if we remove borders...
How about you fuck off with your lies, faggot?

>>137679172
> making it easier for people tobuy the aforementioned houses
This in turn leads to more children, btw.

>>137675548
It is when the population is worth an average of $-50 000 and the immigrants are worth $3.50

>>137679886
I know. I would love to see more of those most beautiful white babies.

>>137659303
we aren't against immigration. we are against things that are incompatible with western liberal democracy. when are you retards going to get it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bx2hEc7Dlcg

>>137659303
This is true if you don't take into account democracy. If all states were authoritarian free market zones with zero political participation, then labor could move independent of borders without degrading and collapsing regional governments, and maximizing economic efficiency. Unfortunately, mass immigration and democracy are not separable except in a few places like the Gulf States. The God of Nature has decided that you can't have open borders and political stability. It's a tragedy of the human condition, but what can you do? I guess you can lie to yourself and allow open borders anyway, and then hope you die before the inevitable collapse while retaining a smug sense of moral superiority for being a humanist citizen of the world--the people who have to live in the aftermath of your hubris be damned.

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>>137659303
can we all band together to kill all the niggers? 6 more days until the final day *clock tower chimes*

>>137680765
This.
The inevitable outcome from open borders is less democracy. Less freedoms. Less civilization.
Guess why open borders are pushed?

>>137659741
I don't need any more shit.

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>Open the borders
>pic related comes in by the billion
>tfw your country becomes a violent somalia-tier hellhole

>>137681917
It's straight up communism or socialism, the rich will be culled and you'll be venezuela, that's literally the step by step process.

>>137659303
>{{{{{economists}}}}}}

>>137683883
In order to get communism (or some other theocracy) in power you need the stage of anarchy in the territory you want to control.
You can not get proper anarchy in nationalist ethnostate - tribalist background retains some basic laws and order regardless of the government or it's absence.

>>137683883
Communism btw is flat out slavery.

>>137659303
>double the world's real GDP
(((you)))

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>>137676756
False. Higher wages barely raises the cost of goods when the money is going to local labor: Americans i.e. not bullshit illegals flooding the country with cheap labor. You are a pawn of elites who have you fooled otherwise so that elites can rape America and subvert it with white and cultural genocide that founded it.

>>137660154
Yup. Still my family.

>>137686128
This.

>>137684668
>>137684785
Ironically, the EU and increasingly the US elites want to emulate the kind of control that China has over its territory and population, however the lack the Chinese social conception of 中国化 which, despite a myriad of internal divisions, creates a sort of civil nationalist/civilization ethos that unites all of the people under a conception of a common Chinese civilizational those. It's been a feature of Chinese culture for millennia and it's why even invading conquering tribes identities were subsumed by the indigenous culture and became sinicized.

Russia is similarly civil nationalist with a unifying, and dominant civilizational conception that they use as a carrot and a stick to keep ethno-nationalism under control, but also give the people an attractive vision from which to derive a difference sense of identity.

EU and US are trying to have authoritarian republics based around oppositional identity politics, united under an ill-defined abstract concept of universal human brotherhood, and tolerance for all differences. It's a completely ad hoc ideology that isn't going to survive serious differences within the population. The only option will be greater and greater ideological controls, but with no elevating consolations for those craving identity, and also a likely stagnating economy as the IQ continues to decrease due to dysgenic immigration patterns.

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>>137660154
More family than billions of strangers who shared an ancestor tens of thousands of years ago.

>>137686424

Well, yeah, there is A LOT of hard scientific evidence for this. Basically, the originary whiteness mutation (melanin deficiency) caused the diseased to flee equatorial regions. Nearly all life on earth (except mutated white-skins) has evolved to thrive on photosynthetic nutrients, so when the whites migrated to Northern climes, naturally they grew weak, deficient in Vitamin D, among other fundamental micro-nutrients of the human race. Imagine! Humans, living on earth, literally BURNED by the sun! Frail and depressed, this actually degenerate, dying "race" was cared for by charitable darker-skinned members of the original tribes who compassionately accompanied the degenerate white-skins on their sojourn. The strong could have simply euthanized them, but through compassion and the development of morality, they transcended that biological tendency to euthanize the sick members of the tribe, at the expense of their own best interests. The sick whites were cared for, basically on life-support, which in many ways they still are to this day due to imperialism.
The West is still on life support, unable to sustain their civilizations without extracting resources and labor from the Global South. It is time the darker-skinned races finally cut the cord and let the whites die.

>>137686193
There are limits to human ability to absorb ideology.

>>137686870
Absolutely. Russia and China, and **maybe** India appear to be at the limits of how far people can extend their spheres or moral concern beyond their natural ethnic in-group preferences. Genetic proximity has some determining influences as to what extent a civic ethos is possible among ethnically diverse people--the overwhelming whiteness of the US historically is certainly to credit for its initial successes with civic nationalism.

The natural limits are not being respect by the US and the EU however. They basically want a unitary civic nationalism for the whole planet, and are attempting to achieve pan-human multiracial civic nationalism within their borders. The results are going to be a spectacular failure, and turn North America and Western Europe into either a nightmarish Neosoviet 1984 mind control state that forces an unnatural and unworkable level of civic nationalism onto a too-diverse population just to keep everyone from ripping each others throats out, and/or it will fall apart and combine the 'Jackson Pollock painting' borders of pre-unified Germany, and the ethnic divisions of the Balkans.

>>137688191
I'd add EU and US to the list of those being at the limits.
And human ability to absorb ideology differs - those who still believe in magic have a greater potential to absorb more.

>>137689195
*those who still believe in magic have a greater potential to absorb more for example.

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"According to economists"

I hear the same argument from every cuck. Go fuck a pig.

>>137689195
I meant that Russian and China have workable levels of diversity, and their forms of "civic nationalism" are sustainable. I don't think the current level of diversity in the US is sustainable, and the EU is rapidly approaching a point of no return.

For sake of argument, is one WAS interested in creating a viable global human civilization, it would have to happen gradually over several hundreds or thousands of years. The FIRST step would be to establish organic, relatively racially homogeneous but ethnically diverse empires like Russia and China, and India. Then you'd allow them room to breathe, to allow the internal populations to become more and more homogeneous ethnically (like with the Han in China). Then MAYBE after a thousand years, you could work to slowly integrate the 5 or 6 ethnic empires on the planet. Progressive ideologues want all of this to happen in the span of a generation or two, which as far as I can tell can only possibly lead to war and balkanization, the exact opposite of what they say they want.

>economists
>being right
They didn't even predict the housing bubble or bank bust at all. Or did and wanted it to happen.

>>137659303
>Why are you against free migration, /pol/? According to economists, open borders would double the world's real GDP.

The last thing we want to do is double the world's GDP.

Do you know what that means in terms of fucking up the planet?

>>137659436
it does. gdp / population = gdp per capita = direct effect on quality of life for individuals

I graduated cum laude in economics, and this thread successfully gave ms stage 3 brain cancer

>>137659303
>Why are you against free migration, /pol/? According to economists, open borders would double the world's real GDP.
This is the same shity 'argument' that we were told by our politicians 10-15 ago. Look Greece now.

BTW my humble suggestion on how to protect your worker class: Deport illegal immigrants before it's too late

>>137659303

Free migration is great.

But it rewuires the abolition of whe wellfare state.

And the parasitic left depends on buying votes via wellfare state goodies ( streamung ppls hardearned money and then buying itself votes with that ).

So that will never happen, unfortunately.

>>137689775
Russia, China, India have no individual freedoms to achieve this currently. You forgot that they actually already are kind of 1984-style dystopian regimes.

>>137659303
Because free migration with underdeveloped nations would destroy the labor market effectively turning us all into feudal serfs.

I support free migration with developed countries though

>>137659303
because chicks like that one will be raped, and bred out of existence.

>>137691584
>I support free migration with developed countries though
Outcome - feudal serfdom - is no different with migration between developed countries too in the long run.

>>137691148
I admitted that they were authoritarian. I think they require less ideologically manipulation though because the populations can more easily buy into the historical narrative of their empires. In effect, the countries seem more natural to the people. Chinese, whatever their political views, almost universally believe in the concept of "China" as a legitimate historical phenomenon, and "Chinese people" as a real thing.

I actually think authoritarian anti-democracy is actually the future for humanity, but it will come in degrees. The best systems will have free economies like Singapore, and increasingly China, which relatively easy to swallow civic ideologies that don't require mental destruction that weakens the populations and makes the country unable to defend itself. I'm not making a moral argument, I'm simply describing what I see. I think Russian and Chinese civic nationalism seek to strengthen the citizens, while Wester civic nationalism tries to weaken the citizens because it's too afraid (rightly so) of internal divisions. The West can't help it though since its operating from a Liberal theoretical starting point. China and Russia don't have to make their systems fit into a box that talks about human equality and progressive Christian metaphysics.

>>137692394
>I actually think authoritarian anti-democracy is actually the future
Are you by any chance slave to Allah? Or just faggot with slaver mentality?

>>137693424
I'm a pessimist. There doesn't seem to be a way for democracies to maintain a limit on the voting franchise, or limit the import of new voters, so the whole thing seems destined to spiral into mod rule, matriarchy, and eventual collapse. The liberal theory about the nature of sovereignty isn't looking very strong. Other theories of sovereignty, even blunt and simplistic ones likes Hobbes are looking more accurate. I don't think we can will things into being with rhetoric. I think we're stuck with the reality that we have, and I'm not certain democracy is actual a functional long term system.

>>137693424
And for the record, I despise Islam. I don't think universalism of any kind are desirable. Liberalism happens to be universalist too, which makes sense since it was reasoned out of universalist Christian metaphysical foundations in the first place.

>>137693974
Did you really believe at some point in your life that there will be perpetual progress in the welfare state? And now you turned into pessimist because you are DISAPPOINTED?
The problem with modern world is SOCIALISM - it fucks up societies.

>>137694226
OK, with your flag you never know. Just asked to be sure, kek.

>>137659303

So people would get fucked twice as hard, figuratively (and literally)?

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>>137686629
>It is time the darker-skinned races finally cut the cord and let the whites die
What a nightmare. Please no.

>>137694308
I think welfare collapse is perfectly survivable for homogeneous nations. However, I think expansion of the welfare state to unsustainable levels mostly happens as diversity increases and politics become tribally resource-competitive. I think liberal theory logically demands a universal voting franchise even if it doesn't begin with one, which leads to matriarchy, which leads to mass immigration. Welfare collapse is therefore most likely to happen in heterogeneous democratic states, meaning liberal democracy has a terminal end date anywhere that it is adopted.

>>137659303
You don't have a country without borders. There is a reason that every time someplace starts as free migration, it ends as a country with a government and borders.

>>137659303
its been a while since that shill thread was posted. you got hired again ?

>>137694984
And welfare collapse in a diverse state = civil war, genocide and/or balkanization. So yes, I have serious misgivings about democracy.

>>137676756
id gladly double my life cost if that meant shitskins like you leaving

>>137694984
Socialism fucks up societies in evolutionary level.

>>137659303
The crash in social trust would outweigh any theoretical gains.

It would also result in the wealthiest leaving for least socialist countries and the poor flocking to the most socialist countries which, though devastatingly destructive, would also be hilarious.

>>137659303
Because the economy is a Ponzi scheme that relies on infinite growth to perpetuate itself. The foundation of the con is that they need a steady stream of people constantly coming into the country so they can redistribute these new "investments" to the older "investors" (cheap labour for their companies, new tax payers to keep the con afloat, etc).

The second the scam collapses (like every Ponzi scheme), they will immediately turn on the migrants that made them wealthy.

>>137695600
/thread

>>137695317
Absolutely, but there IS a distinction between Authoritarianism and Socialism. China is a unitary Party Republic with a State controlled market economy. It is lest socialist than most western European states at this point regardless of the official ideology of the Party, which by the way is quite different than orthodox Marxism or the Soviet Union at this point. I think the experience of the Cold War has impoverished our vocabulary and simplified a much more complicated political landscape into "freedom vs. socialism" at there is simply more to it than that now. We frankly don't have a word for some things now. The Chinese say "socialism with Chinese characteristics". Western academics mock them by saying they're just State Capitalists in denial. Neither label is totally accurate or honest. Meanwhile, we're calling Social Justice Theory "Liberalism" and soft ethno-nationalist ideas that the Founders of the US believed in "Naziism".

>>137660154
Sure thing go tell the jews that or better yet some of the Zionist go ahead I'll wait.

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http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/aug/3/illegal-immigrants-cost-taxpayers-750-billion-over/?utm_campaign=shareaholic&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=socialnetwork
>New study estimates Illegal immigrants cost taxpayers nearly $750 billion over lifetime

"muh economy depends on ever-increasing population" is a terrible argument. That's the definition of a pyramid scheme. You can't have forever-increasing populations. Higher GDP growth by artificially inflating your population has no net positive effect on per capita GDP.

If immigration was this beneficial economically, then the US national debt wouldn't have gone up so massively since the 60s to make up for it.

http://www.newobserveronline.com/2017/05/only-7-of-refugee-invaders-working-in.html
>Only 7% Of “Refugees” Working In Germany

http://fortune.com/2016/09/14/germany-hiring-refugee/
>Germany’s Major Firms Have Hired Fewer Than 100 of Its 1 Million Refugees\

>3 million Turks came to Germany as “guest workers”, but 80% of them now live on welfare.
http://www.frontpagemag.com/point/183720/80-turkish-muslim-settlers-germany-live-welfare-daniel-greenfield

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/820480/Germany-migrant-crisis-refugees-long-term-unemployment-benefits-Angela-Merkel
>Germany admits 75% of refugees face long-term unemployment and life on benefits

https://www.wsj.com/articles/germanys-welfare-bill-rises-169-as-refugee-numbers-grow-1473077920
>Germany Sees Welfare Benefit Costs More Than Double

http://www.politico.eu/article/refugees-wont-plug-german-labor-gap-asylum-employment-skills-gap/
>Refugees won’t plug German labor gap

>Minister of Labor: "Only one tenth of refugees is viable for the job market"
http://www.faz.net/aktuell/wirtschaft/wirtschaftspolitik/arbeitslosenzahl-steigt-durch-fluechtlinge-laut-andrea-nahles-13795574.html

>>137661456
THIS

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>>137667653
Already done (pic)

>>137659303
>According to economists, open borders would double the world's real GDP.

Allowing in 50 million shitskins increases GDP, but the QUALITY OF LIFE only gets better for the top .1% who get all that extra GDP (mostly in increased prices from extra demand). For the other 99.9% the QUALITY OF LIFE GETS WORSE. Do this enough and you get places like Brazil where the top .1% live in fortified zones safe from the endless sea of ghettos.

Typical globalist Jew bullshit.

>>137695904
Any new ideas from China recently?
I give you one - now, when west is fucked with socialism, fighting with ghosts and trying to contain the shitskin-nigger invasion (pushed by who?) China tries to become imperialist.

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>>137660154

Race= Shared values, shared history, common bond and we can achieve more when we stick with our own kind.

>>137696583
China will become imperialist without a doubt, but it will be different than European colonialism. I predict they will only be interested in contiguous territorial acquisitions, and most other oversees imperialism will be financial, and a few naval bases in key strategic locations.

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>ctrl+f 'girl'
>one result
>ctrl+f 'sauce'
>no results

>>137659303
Double GDP?

Which parts would contribute to that doubling?

GDP is made up of:

Consumers, Investments, Government spending, imports, Exports.

By importing low paid foogees your crushing consumer spending, reducing investments, government spending goes up on welfare that's never going to amount to anything. Imports go down, exports go up, basically equal parts.

Net loss.

>>137696837
Bullshit... so why have an empire? Why slavery? U can't do it alone u racist Chavy cunt.

>>137659303
Depends on the migration.

>>137697367

Dude, did you fail Econ 101? Transfer payments don't increase GDP. If you consider the world as one economy ("world GDP"), there is no exports or imports. The doubling in GDP would comprise mostly of consumption and investments. I have no idea why you say "foogees" would crush "consumer spending" and reduce investments.

>>137659303
It would also double the rapes and murders and would speed up the societal decline of the west.

GDP is irrelevant.

>>137696837

If you take any international economics course, you learn the exact opposite.

>>137698452
Might be Net Transfers are included in most textbooks version of the formula as part of X. Theories goes that these are accumulated interest based off of foreign projects or domestic projects operated by foreigners.