how can other religions even compete? but seriously though,

I am actually buddhist, but stop making these gay af threads. white boiii, leave it alone follow your kike on a stick.

File: 1500010244047.png (540KB, 602x435px) Image search: [Google]

540KB, 602x435px

>>137219824

It's a religion of death. It's all about getting rid of everything and then accepting that you have nothing. Depriving yourself of every 'want'.

It's fine in a eastern shithole filled with poverty. Because it keeps the poor away from going batshit crazy attacking people, but it is not a philosophy for a civilized nation.

I've never met a person who embraced buddhism specifically that wasn't a massive retard with an over inflated ego. If someone really understands it I don't mind it but I think people turn to it because they want spirituality in their lives but are against Christianity.

File: 1486344910889.jpg (61KB, 850x400px) Image search: [Google]

61KB, 850x400px

REEEEE
STOP MAKING THESE THREADS! YOU'RE MAKING MY RELIGION LOOK AUTISTIC!

>>137220124
thaijew is correct. Fuck off with normie shill faggotry and provide something real in brand new threads sage

>>137220124
I was just in thailand
not to mention, I'm not white

File: dogen being time c.jpg (2MB, 3200x3200px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 3200x3200px

>>137219824
>

anicca anatta dukkha
sila samadhi prajna

will always be true

>>137219824
Seems like a fine religion, but completely incompatible with the Western way of life. As are most religions except a few sects of Christianity. Even Catholicism has trouble remaining relevant anywhere besides Italy and Mexico.
Good for the Chinks though they can have all that inner peace bullshit. doesn't work as well for white people anyway

File: 1480520179911.jpg (1B, 486x500px)

1B, 486x500px

>>137219824
They're decent people but their prophet's miracles are even harder to believe than Jesus. He could walk at birth? He could walk on water? He could talk at birth? Those are both unbelievable and lame even if true.

>>137219824
I prefer religions where I can drive a car through a crowd full of people.

File: a53d4d1625ba1446bfcc7e1f90cdb262f9badb47c2f0c64313c442d69deedfe7.jpg (17KB, 255x213px) Image search: [Google]

17KB, 255x213px

>>137220373
that doesn't keep you from being a faggot kike. you can be a faggot kike anywhere I don't give a fuck where you just visited

>>137219824
It's useless, pointless, weak and Buddhists are the biggest hypocrites. Proof is how Southeast Asia is all kinds of fucked up.

>>137220152
Was this supposed to deter me from Buddhism? Because now I'm only further aroused and interested.

On a serious note though Buddhism is really chill. It doesn't make me a Buddhist by any stretch but I follow a lot of their "just be kind or don't fuck with people" philosophy. Plus meditation has healed my autism.

Pretty fucking blue pilled in some ways and red pilled in others:


Red pilled in acknowledging that life is suffering and you are in control of your destiny.

Blue pilled in thinking that the best way to ease suffering isn't in self-enhancement but to devoid oneself of pleasures and to convince others the same in order to cleanse the world of suffering like done sort of karma socialism.

T. Son of a devout Buddhist who spouts this shit all day.

>>137220571
>some of buddists LITERALLY won the death
>pointless

))))

>>137220783
This would be ok because catholics and buddhists absolutely co-exist. We would do extremely well together. The problem is radical jews. They can't be peaceful, lawful good people because they're cursed. They're listening to satan and trying to enslave earth, per the talmud, in order to ascend instead. You can't have peace without the absence of these radical jews. And they will do anything to obtain ascendance

>>137221034
What's the purpose of worshiping and following satan when you also know that god exists? Never quite understood that because god is all powerful. I probably have a really poor look on it though and don't fully get it

>>137219824
Zen is the final red pill

Pure land and Theravada based schools are semi red pilled

'Western Buddhism' is absolute blue pill

>>137221322
mathew 12:14, among many others...
The Pharisees Jews conspired with the Romans to kill Jesus...
For this reason, those with Jewish blood are forever cursed. The multi-dimension theory is real. God and Angels talk to people, but not so much anymore. Look up Slender Man. Satan communicates from a different dimension, but he's real. He's giving a false promise of hope to the cursed, though. The jews truly are cursed and are being tricked. Many good people will ascend, no jews, but the amount of pain and poverty regular, good people will have to go through until the rapture amount to a catastrophic failure on our part, simply because we're unwilling to discuss the Jewish question.
That's why peaceful religions make me both proud and upset. It's also why devout christians and buddhists would do just fine together.
Did that answer your question?

>>137219824
Buddhism is fine in the East. In the West it's the religion for the absolute beta male. Literally every single convert to Buddhism is either a massive beta and/or someone with OCD.

>>137222222

5 minutes after Bhudda died, it was used as a moneymaker, same as Christianity.

>>137222225
Yeah thanks anon that's interesting stuff. I'll have to read more about it.

>>137219824
Almost no one in the west understands buddhism.
Protip: Buddhists have more dogma than Christianity.

>>137219824
dude zen lmao

>>137220152
Even peaceful Buddhists realise that Islam needs to be wiped out before it destroys civilisation.

>>137219824
>thoughts on Buddhism?

Fascinating but so fucking hard to approach given the myriad of texts and practices.

It also doesnt help that schools which seem like they should be the most legit are so far up the asses of Thai, Burmese and SriLankan culture they become almost unworthwhile

>>137220152
this was an earthquake

>>137224856
to relate
https://zuhaybshah.blogspot.com.eg/2012/07/fake-pictures-of-muslims-being-killed.html

>>137219824
I just meditate once a day and read some texts for insight. Some of it is utter bullshit, but there are some really helpful stuff that lets you deal with hardships of life or death much better than any other religion.

The primordial indo-european religion, referred to today as paganism, much resembled what buddhism is today in rural areas.
There is therefore in the minds of the European a strong connection towards buddhism because the European has been robbed from his own heritage through judeo-christendom.
It is why so many whites feel a need to protect Tibet for instance, or why the swastika is a common symbol in both cultures.

>>137220755#
> Plus meditation has healed my autism.
Lies. OP is on /pol/ so OP is automatically autistic

File: 5373562526.jpg (250KB, 1181x844px) Image search: [Google]

250KB, 1181x844px

Buddhists complain that their religion is being turned into some soulless, commercialised self-help philosophy.

But let's face it. That's exactly what it is.

The problem with Buddhism is that, although it claims to promote detachment from the troubles of the world, it is still very much a religion of the world. Their shirking of the divine is what makes it soulless. The central focus on meditation and self awareness is a selfish immersion in the natural, rather than a selfless surrender to the supernatural. They teach that salvation comes from within, and that leads to a selfish and ineffectual worldview.

The only reason why the west is so fascinated with it is due to the false belief that the emphasis on mysticism and meditation is unique to the eastern religions. This is absolutely false. The long tradition of Christian mysticism, especially Roman Catholic mysticism, has everything that Buddhism has. But the adddition of a philosophy that emphasises the divine is why Christianity and its mystic tradition will never be reduced down to a feel good, secular self help religion.

People in the west turn to Buddhism because they are looking for an escape from what they percieve to be the shallowness of mainstream Christianity. Maybe if we did a better job of showing what Christianity was really about, these lost, angst-ridden westerners would be more likely to pick up the writings of Teresa of Avila, Gregory of Nyssa, Anthony the Great or Meister Eckhart, rather than trying to find solace in the overpriced sutras sold at those hippy shops.

File: 1490218194896.jpg (358KB, 875x600px) Image search: [Google]

358KB, 875x600px

>>137226350
Yet christian countries are the heartland of not only toxic individualism and attachment but also soulless communism and state atheism.

The Catholic Church even commericalised salvation briefly.

>The only reason why the west is so fascinated with it is due to the false belief that the emphasis on mysticism and meditation is unique to the eastern religions

Its more to do with exoticism, you get the exact same thing happening in East Asia with Christianity.

>The long tradition of Christian mysticism, especially Roman Catholic mysticism, has everything that Buddhism has.

What is the Catholic equivalent of the Nyingtik?

>Maybe if we did a better job of showing what Christianity was really about

The dream of every believer - if only they understood the true faith THEN they would all understand and join us.

>be more likely to pick up the writings of Teresa of Avila, Gregory of Nyssa, Anthony the Great or Meister Eckhart, rather than trying to find solace in the overpriced sutras sold at those hippy shops.

Or perhaps it might lead them to read The Way of a Pilgrim, The Philokalia or the works of John Climacus

>>137219824

I like it. Eastern buddhism (not soto Zen, though) is great.

Western buddhism is a joke.

>>137219824
>how can other religions even compete?
By being integral part o civilization that conquered whole world.

>>137219824
literally the worst "religion"

>>137219824
religion is for idiots. get a decent education.

File: Rafal_Ganowicz.png (313KB, 664x648px) Image search: [Google]

313KB, 664x648px

>>137220152
that's tibet

File: 1460841767123-3.jpg (257KB, 714x900px) Image search: [Google]

257KB, 714x900px

>>137220783

The Buddha indulged in worldly pleasures at one point in his life and stated that doing so does not necessarily mean that you cannot achieve nirvana.

Your father is too attached. Not a true Buddha.

>>137219824
Pol needs authority and be told what to do. Expect to be shit on.

File: hqdefault.jpg (21KB, 480x360px) Image search: [Google]

21KB, 480x360px

>>137226350
>soulless, commercialised self-help philosophy.

Christianity is the king of commercial self-help philosophy

>>137226350
I am a buddhist meditator of 20 years and recent born again Christian. Your post is fantastic. Rings very true with insights often too stinging for buddhists to hear. My former coummunity is nearly 100% far lefitsts and it's no wonder they indulge in a political ideology such as that which denies facts. It's was through being kicked out after making a nazi joke a couple years ago that I began to tumble down the pol hole, but was already a major skeptic of leftist stuff. Going to church starting end of last year and getting into Christianity has been a... wait for it... Godsend.

>>137229042
A papist criticizing other religions
Literally the worst kid fucking religion you have

>>137224264
>le buddhists are peaceful meme

>>137220361
why the fuck can't we meme this into mainstream??

All we need to do is educate the masses about how Islam simply can not PEACEFULLY integrate anywhere, ever,
Not once has it been successful in history, And like all the liberal school teachers say

>pic related

>>137229581
>recent born again Christian
Cute. Let's wait a few years when the honeymoon period is over, then we'll talk

>>137229579
You missed his entire point: that Christianity does not do enough to show it's mystical side. It was a critique. You agree with him.

>>137219824
>dude stop enjoying things life is literally suffering

fuck buddhism
taoism is the true patrician religion

>>137219824
The mythology behind it is retarded. The moral teachings aren't based on logic.

Meditation is self-brainwashing and even more pseudo-science than psychology.

>>137228933
PolishPriesttMakesChildrenLickHisKnees.jpg

Don't make me post it.

>>137229763
No, out with it now. Speak your mind.

File: its them.png (61KB, 420x294px) Image search: [Google]

61KB, 420x294px

>>137229757
>>137220361

i fail at life.

>>137229775
that's not confucianism

My Vietnamese wife was just saying earlier today that she thinks it's the reason Asians haven't accomplished as much as a whole as white people. Buddhism promotes laziness instead of hard work.

>>137229879
You found Jesus and you're filled with the Holy Spirit and you feel like you got the answers now... wait a few years when the honeymoon period is over, when life starts beating you again, when you suffer like a dog, crying tears of blood, and trying to find excuses why Yahweh would do this to one of his most faithful... or maybe nothing cruel will transpire, you will just get bored of going to the same church with people of below average intelligence listen to some dolt explain to you scriptures you understand better than him... over and over again, repeating the same rituals robotically, communion, or what have you... you'll either get bored of it and realize you memed/trolled yourself, or the idea that (((Yahweh))) controlling the Universe doesn't really make much sense, especially in light of what science is discovering.

>>137219824
>life is suffering
>we must eliminate suffering by eliminating desire
yeahnah. thats like saying "im thirsty. i need water. ill just sit here and ruminate endlessly until the desire to drink water goes away instead of going and getting a drink of water". buddhism is ass-backwards. discomfort is a signal to seek the things that you desire, not to ignore them.

>>137229999
Nice quads, but you're still wrong.
>Asians haven't accomplished as much as a whole as white people
China was ahead of us for pretty much the whole history up to the renaissance. So during the times when China was most Buddhist, and we were most Christian.

>>137229581
Which vehicle and lineage did you practice?

(and no, no matter what answer you give Im not going to give you the "THATS NOT REAL BUDDHISM")

>>137230138
Maybe you missed the whole part about how meditation prevents that kind of staleness, or maybe I forgot to state it. I'm not abandoning my practice of meditation. Roboticism is a problem in any spiritual endeavor. I do appreciate your comments though.

>>137220783
it teaches the complete opposite of man being in control of his destiny. it teaches that suffering is inescapable, and the only way to abate it is to stop having any kind of desire and to submit to your torment.

>>137230340
Vajrayana. I'll leave the lineage out for now.

File: IMG_6779.jpg (19KB, 480x360px) Image search: [Google]

19KB, 480x360px

>>137220124
Wow, which sutra is that from

>>137230308
Its less desire and more clinging. Compare for instance placeing a 50cent coin in your palm face up to clenching it in your fist as tightly as you can.

>>137230454
>>137230454
Not really. That's like the jewed down version of mid 70s import buddhism.

>>137230356
Thank you. If you continue practicing Buddhist meditation while being a Christian you will go against Christianity. Some think they can decouple Buddhist meditation from Buddhism but I don't think it's doable. Because Buddhist meditation only makes sense in the whole context of Buddhist theory.

>>137230138
If you can't find a way to have a living relatioship with Christ, yeah, all that stuff can happen. Can still happen, but you have to find a way to make it alive for you. That's where meditation comes in.

>>137230538
>sutra
They call them "suttas" over there. They use the effeminate, virgin loser Pali instead of the chad, masculine mustard race Sanskrit. Hinayanist cucks.

>>137230494
>Vajrayana

Its a strange irony that the most esoteric vehicle is also the most accessible one to westerners.

Still it attracts hippies and house wives like nothing else unfortunately, I can see why had that trouble with the group.

>>137230790
What is a living relationship with Christ? How does it look like, in practice? (Sorry I was raised Catholic and I'm not familiar with that concept)

>>137219824
In it's purest form, if it ends in 'ism', it's always doing more harm than good to mankind in the long term

>>137230920
There has to be some kind of daily practice that allows you to move beyond yourself and open to the world, to Christs love. In it's core, Vajrayana and (real, but very rare) Christianity are the same: it's a way to personally encounter the sacred. Christianity uses the person of Christ as a vehicle for that encounter, and you can still do that within the "view" of Vajrayana, the view of sacred world, or "pure perception". There is a practice in Vajrayana called "Calling to the guru from afar", and another called "Guru Yoga", essentially you visualize the guru (could be Christ), as a deity (this works because the whole world is actually sacred) and then you unite with that through opening yourself. Ultimately you are operating from the view that there is no ultimate separation between you and sacredness, but you use the relative appearance of duality, and relationship to get there.

>>137230494
Oh you dirty tease you

>>137231409
Christianity, as taught and practiced by Christ, is 100% a Vajrayana practice.

>>137231409
>>137231571
You realize 99,99999% Christians would call you a heretic, right?
What you say contradicts with all established dogma.

>>137219824

Truly, they are blessed for only they can rise to occasion to stop the eternal Mohammedan.

>>137229774
Christian mysticism is very restrained by the canon and can't seem to detach itself from the raw religious aspect which make up the majority of christian doctrine. This is why christian mysticism never really took off in the west and was at times called a heresy. The bible commands it's follower to proselytize the faith rather than to introspect about the nature of the soul and God. It can't help but become a commercialized snake oil wonder drug.

>>137230920
The lineage I practice uses coming into one's own body as a way to move out of the incessant thinking and conceptualizing of the world which gets in the way of a direct relationship with Christ, or, for that matter, the sacred world (God) itself. It's a tradition that views full embodiment in one's own body and life as the gateway to God/reality/salvation, etc.

>>137231856
But mixed with a legitimate Vajrayana tradition, Christiam mysticism seems to have some pretty interesting potential. And, for me, it is opening up aspects of my own life that relate to my own fate/karma/destiny/ancestors, etc.

>>137219824
P. Good 8/10

>>137231409
>daily practice
Yes
>In it's core, Vajrayana and (real, but very rare) Christianity are the same:
No.
Read the gospel once and awhile.
>>137230920
all I am going to say is you need to be in a church. church isn't a building, but wherever christians gather together to wuship god and study His word. Chuch is a community (but not just a community, a lot of larpers out there). you can't learn anything here, but you can learn a lot in bible study

>>137232001
>my own fate/karma/destiny/ancestors, etc.
You use "Christ" to mean a concept, like some New Agers say, "Christ-consciousness" etc.

You can't believe in karma and be a Christian at the same time... or in destiny... destiny/fate = pagan concepts. Christianity believes in a divine plan that was intended willfully by the Creator.

>>137231722
I'm not into Christianity for the dogma. I'm in it for the community, but mostly to explore my relationship with Christ, especially as a healer, as I was unable to move beyond certain blockages with just the Buddhism I was practicing. I realize there isn't any one else doing what I'm doing. Not that I'm special, but I just don't see a precedent for it. I first became interested in Christ though from my Buddhist teacher, who gave a talk about Jesus on Christmas during a month long retreat I was on (have done 13 of those).

But yes, I have to be a little secret about my own ways I practice Christianity. Aren't we all ultimately on our own, though?

>>137232099
>but wherever christians gather together to wuship god and study His wor
Does that include Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, ... ?

>>137232279
I don't mean Christ as a concept, and like you that annoys me, as it kind of lets you off the hook of being real with Christ.

Karma as it seems you are referring to, is, according to certain teachings in Vajrayana, able to be purified very quickly, similar to how Christians talk about being cleansed by Christs love. Vajrayana is called the "fast path" for this reason.

>>137231856
The Carmelites are the ones who have kept alive Christian mysticism the most, imo. They hold the lineage of St. John of the Cross.

File: IMG_0507.jpg (52KB, 390x574px) Image search: [Google]

52KB, 390x574px

>>137231571
The closet you are going to get to something close to that idea is Christian perfection
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_perfection
But to relate that to Vajrayana is just wrong. And it smacks of hippy free love crap that pretends all religions are the same. They aren't. btw the wika article I linked doesn't really explain it well.
Vajrayana Is about achieving elightinment, in a specific way, and that is comeptely forgien to the Holy spirt and heaven and judgement and the final scarface and forgiveness and much else.
Buddisim is a empty promise, if you go down that path you will realize 30 years later that there is no enlightenment and no rebirth, and you are left hollow, many such cases.

>>137232587
Yes, what you say makes sense to me - it's not the purification part that is problematic, but the very concept of "karma".

A Christian isn't trying to be cleansed of karma but he tries to be made righteous by God...

What I'm saying is that the religions go to salvation from totally different starting points

A Buddhist wants to be freed from karma that leads to continual rebirth that leads to suffering

But a Christian wants to get rid of the original sin that is like a fundamental flaw that all humans have .. he wants to be made righteous by God, JUSTIFIED etc.

You see the whole setting/context is completely different.

You don't worry about original sin, justification, sanctification, the stuff Christians care about.

You're really a Vajrayana Buddhist and not a Christian. It's just that you use "Christ" as the focus for your Guru Yoga / visualization practices.

I know of someone who used Adolf Hitler for that.

>>137232925
What do I do, anon?

>>137230317
But Buddhism was a foreign religion in China and they mixed Buddhist beliefs with Confucianism and Taoism and other local beliefs, and there were many different Buddhist sects too. When was China ever quintessentially Buddhist? Buddhism was persecuted in China in the 800s and its influence in China waned after that and never recovered as far as I know.

>>137230685

That is true. You can't practice Buddhist meditation while being a Christian.

But Christianity has its own equivelents to Buddhist meditation.
The Catechism of the Catholic Church describes two mystic practices. "Christian meditation" which is an active meditation on God or the scripture, and "Christian contemplation", which is a passive clearing of the mind to let God wash over you. Both these practices can be considered similar to Buddhist meditation, in that they have the same goal of calming the mind, finding peace, and sharpening the senses. Except the Christian forms of meditation are less selfish and achieve more.

>>137231856

>This is why christian mysticism never really took off in the west

Really?
You know the Catholic church has hundreds and hundreds of monestaries all over the world. What do you think goes on behind those walls?

The monks and nuns in cloistered monasteries spend their lives meditating of the scripture and trying to achieve union with God. Monastic life is mysticism. And maybe there is a bit of a divide between the religious vocation and lay people. But there is nothing stopping anyone from taking on mystic Christian practices in their lives.

Mysticism itself was never considered a heresy. Only teachers who tried to claim mysticism was an alternative way to salvation (the Quietists), or even the ONLY way to salvation (the Gnostics), disreguarding the Church and the sacrements, were ever considered heretics.

>>137232279
>karma
I believe in Karma, so I go around treating people bad all day and assume they deserve it.
you are right Karma and chirst don't mix.
just to lay a little more Christian theology on that other poster:
No one deserves anything, everyone is a sinner in some way and everyone needs Divine forgiveness. Karma quickly becomes a blame system, where you must have ^deserved^ to be born into your caste, so I am not obligated to help you.

>>137233004
>You're really a Vajrayana Buddhist and not a Christian. It's just that you use "Christ" as the focus for your Guru Yoga / visualization practices.

You might be right. I'm just feeling this out as I go. But your'e also missing some things about the nuances of Vajrayana. I also think we're getting into semantics. Do you not believe in the simiarity of all humans ultimate spiritual longing?

Btw... this is not hippy shit all religions are the same. I personally think there is a special connection between the buddhism I practiced (it's not really like anything you're describing) and Christianity. They're both about freedom, and fulfilling your divine purpose as a child of God. Buddhists (in my lineage) just use a slightly different concept/word for God. It's pretty damn close though.

>>137233128
>But there is nothing stopping anyone from taking on mystic Christian practices in their lives.

Dont you see there being a big difference between not opposing it and actually encouraging and assisting in it?


Are Popes, Bishops and priests required to have been monks? If not how many of them come from the monastic tradition.

Do sermons actually encourage and even organise events for mysticism beyond prayer and the rosary?

>>137233669
>Do you not believe in the simiarity of all humans ultimate spiritual longing?
Not him, but no. I bealive in the living God. Who gave us The Word from the beginning. Were you not told from the beginning? From Noah from issisic from Abraham. I bealive in Jesus, His only son, who fulfilled the promise and died for our sins

It's kind of creepy to think the entire human race is only 250 generations old.

>>137233128
>What do you think goes on behind those walls?

Worship and prayer? You know the bible doesn't emphasize introspection more than proselytization right?

Christian monks aren't even a thing these days, monasticism isn't christianity in it's purest form.

>Except the Christian forms of meditation are less selfish and achieve more.

This is exactly opposite of the truth. Buddhist mediation by definition is the realization of non-self, so it cannot be any more selfish than other meditation techniques, nor can it 'achieve more'.

Christian meditation is no different than TM (transcendental meditation) or any kind of hindu based meditation where you emphasize scriptural ideas rather than your own agency.

>Mysticism itself was never considered a heresy

Meister Eckhart was the first theologian to face accusations of heresy, you wanna guess why that is?

File: discuss.jpg (784KB, 1569x4001px) Image search: [Google]

784KB, 1569x4001px

>>137219824
>but seriously, no Charlotville, what are /pol/'s thoughts on .......... Buddhism ???!?
TSK TSK, NO D&C KIKES, NEW BREAD
>>137228426 → →
>>137228426 → →
>>137228426 → →
>>137228426 → →

>>137233443
>No one deserves anything
But in Christianity they say we actually all deserve to perish. We all deserve eternal torment in hell. Not all of us will go to Hell, many will be saved... but not because they deserve it, only because of God's grace.

>>137234479
What is your daily practice, anon?

>>137234025

As a roman Catholic who is very much involved in the community, I've been exposed to spiritual communion, lectio divina, the rosary, adoration, and many other mystic practices.

These aren't known to the wider world, or even many of the cultural Cattholics around today, regrettably. But everyone within my community knows about them.

I can also assure you that monks are still very much "a thing" even today. And who are you to say that monasticism isn't Christianity? This religion was basically built by the desert fathers.

Meister Eckhart was never tried for heresy, and he was only accused for his pantheistic ideas, not his mysticism. To call mysticism a heresy would be calling the Church Fathers heretics. And the idea that the Catholic Church would do that is laughable.

>>137234927
Vajrayana also has a concept similar to Grace. They say basic enlightenment, the dharmakaya, happened for no reason, it just exists. It is called the unborn mind. The idea of doing good karmic things to escape birth and death, honestly, is like kindergarten dharma for the masses. It's Asia's form of Cultural Marxism/PC/placating the masses type stuff. Vajrayana is extremely radical compared to that. You basically tune in to the unborn mind, and the only way is through devotion by the way. Very similar to Christian practice. I'm telling you there's a lot in common. It's just that the popular concept of buddhism is basically a political ruse to placate society.

>>137235331
>They say basic enlightenment, the dharmakaya, happened for no reason, it just exists
Where is that stated, I'm curious?

>The idea of doing good karmic things to escape birth and death, honestly, is like kindergarten dharma for the masses.
That makes sense. Japanese Pure Land also says something similar... that in the end, trying to do "good karma" only leads to more egotism ("I'm a good person") and so more self-attachment... and then they conclude that salvation must come in form of grace (from Amitabha Buddha).

Was practicing Pure Land for a long time but I'm interested in starting with Vajrayana. Which of the 4 lineages are you with?

>>137235551

I'm with a descended lineage of Kagyu/Nyingma. That's what you want to look for as opposed to Geluk (too mental/scriptural). You want a practice oriented lineage, preferrably a body based one. Google Reggie Ray.

>>137235818
I know Reggie Ray, I actually went through some of his audio Mahamudra teachings, although not all!

So Kagyu/Nyingma is more oriented to practice, while Gelug/Sakya more to scriptural study?

>>137235551
>>137235331
Do you two use a teacher? Self guided meditation is icky

>>137235551
Also, read Rainbow Painting by Tulku Urgyen.

>>137224856
>>137224962
Damn, I was about to convert to Buddhism.

>>137235257
>These aren't known to the wider world, or even many of the cultural Cattholics around today, regrettably

Why?

>I can also assure you that monks are still very much "a thing" even today.

Well can you answer this part of my previous question "Are Popes, Bishops and priests required to have been monks? If not how many of them come from the monastic tradition"

What do you mean by "a thing" do you mean simply that they still exist or that they play a defining role in the church and faith?


>And who are you to say that monasticism isn't Christianity

If monks are only a tiny component of the Church whose lifestyles and practices do not play the defining role then its a pretty open and shut case.

Its kind of like how you can say that Australia is not a police state even though we have police officers and jails.

>This religion was basically built by the desert fathers.

Now thats hyperbole or mere ignorance in your own Church. Are you mistaking them for the Apostolic Fathers?
>Meister Eckhart was never tried for heresy, and he was only accused for his pantheistic ideas, not his mysticism. To call mysticism a heresy would be calling the Church Fathers heretics

Where did this come from I never made any talk about heresy.

>>137235936
I have studied with a teacher for 17 years, but am currently undergoing a difficult period of potential misunderstanding/being pushed out on my own/etc. Working with a teacher is considered necessary in buddhism, in order to avoid the trap of building a fortress for your ego, which you can do in meditation. It seems my teacher thought the next step in my development was to force me out on my own and not come around for a while. It would not call it easy. But do seek out a teacher, one that you feel a connection with.

>buddhism

fake religion that the 'followers' don't follow at all. low-tier buddhists go around and beg people for money, give to upper-tier buddhists, then proceed to live as neets.

all the 'buddhists' who go to the temples just do it for a once in a while thing to look at something different.

the general population knows absolutely nothing about any of the teachings.

>t. asian-american

>>137232453
>Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, ..
The mormons have thier own bible, and the jehovah witness bible was translated by people that cousn't read the original language, and they added in a bunch of "jehovahs" that's aren't in the text. I mostly respect church's desended directly from the parearches, and yes that includes Luther, who was a trained and learned preacher and the incudles things like the English chuch, that broke off from Catholics, and things like Methodism, which broke off from the English church during the war.

>>137235936
Yes, had many teachers when practicing in Pure Land way. Keep in mind PL Buddhism doesn't focus on mediitation practices

>>137236241
>17 years.
Neat

>>137235916
>So Kagyu/Nyingma is more oriented to practice, while Gelug/Sakya more to scriptural study?
Yes.

Wow, you know Reggie. He's my teacher. Crazy. Pol is a weird ass place.

>>137236697
You know him personally?
I only know his audio recordings. He's a great teacher.

>>137236790
Yes we were/are very close. I have not seen him in a couple years, but have worked very closely with him.

>>137236857
>>137236790
What is Buddha?

>>137236196
I was meant to quote you and >>137234612


Anyway, the reason why these practices aren't widely know is because people aren't willing to learn. If you just go to Church on Sunday and leave it at that, you are just being at best, a lukewarm Catholic, at worst, a cultural Catholic.

All Catholics should be taking part in the devotions I've mentioned which include mystical practices.

I have never been to the seminary, but I have a pretty good idea of what it is like. They learn theology and philosophy and study the writings of the great Church mystics. The seminary is basically monastic living. Priests have to be spiritually minded. They just don't get people off the street to be Priests. There have been may Popes from Benedictine and other monastic orders.

The Church considers concecrated life a more pure form of living than secular life. It does play a great role in the Church.

It may be hyberbole to say the religion was built by the Desert Fathers, but they had an enormous impact on Christian spirituality.
And look at the other Church Fathers. They all had mystic inclinations.

>>137237173
Historical person and great teacher.

Your own teacher, if a legitimate lineage holder.

Your own inner awakened nature.

All of reality itself when seen purely.

>>137237173
Mind is Buddha.

>>137219824
Is Tebet, dalai lama the most currupt form of Buddhism?

>>137238114
No.

>>137235257
>These aren't known to the wider world, or even many of the cultural Cattholics around today, regrettably

Yes and you know why? It's because Christianity isn't a contemplative religion, it relies on faith and revelation. A full reading of the new testament will not give you a monastic order of christianity, it's an interpolation of the doctrine.

>I can also assure you that monks are still very much "a thing" even today

but you just said mystic ideas are not very well known

>This religion was basically built by the desert fathers.

The religion was built by the twelve apostles, not the desert fathers

>To call mysticism a heresy would be calling the Church Fathers heretics

Only some of them came from a monk background and the views they espoused is different from what people like Eckhart taught.

>Meister Eckhart was never tried for heresy, and he was only accused for his pantheistic ideas, not his mysticism

his pantheism was his mysticism. The fact that christianity can accuse people of heresy is just further evidence that it's not a contemplative religion. You'll have to split hairs to fit a mystical narrative into the doctrine.

>>137238114
Nah... but.... Tibet is extremely politically corrupt, and this extends to a lot of the dharma lineages.

Dalai Lama's a good dude, but he's a head of state that has to deal with a generations old problem of nepotism and corruption. And it only gets more entrenched in a refugee community because they feel they have to preserve their culture even harder.

>>137220471
100% right
you can't have hordes of buddhists in the west. also westernized buddhism is shit and doesnt function

>>137238371
The chuch was built by the holy spirt acting through said people. That is all. It would never have worked without that
>It's because Christianity isn't a contemplative religion, it relies on faith and revelation. A full reading of the new testament will not give you a monastic order of christiani
God's love is without it's conditions but not without it's conuquetins. Every Jesus had to spend time in the desert to deal with the revelations.
if you truly let God in, you won't just be a Sunday Christian

>>137220471
Which is why it's so interesting that I have been kind of forced over to Christianity to deal with/understand/execute my life faithfully as a Western male, despite my years of buddhist training. Christianity and the western mind seem to be very intertwined. Dealing with with conscience the way Christianity does is not present in Buddhism.

>>137238371

>monasticism isn't in the Bible so it's not Christian

I don't know what your background is, but not all christianity is "sola scriptura". Catholicism is more than just what is in the Bible.

The monastic tradition is alive and well. I know of several monasteries around my area and all over Australia

Christianity has a huge contemplative component. Why are you denying this?

>>137239011
The western world isn't very Christian either, except culturally, that's why books like the the benedict option are popular now, we live in a fallen world and some believe the best response is to just fuck off from it

>>137237388
>Anyway, the reason why these practices aren't widely know is because people aren't willing to learn

Does that include the clergy?

>The seminary is basically monastic living

You are starting to draw a long bow here just being spiritually minded =/= mysticism or monasticism and saying that seminary is monastic living is about as valid as saying RCIA is seminary living.

>The Church considers concecrated life a more pure form of living than secular life. It does play a great role in the Church.

Yet having lived or living as a monk is not a requirement for spiritual office?

>It may be hyberbole to say the religion was built by the Desert Fathers, but they had an enormous impact on Christian spirituality.

Not in Catholicism where their Hesychasm was at best treated luke warm and worst heresy.

The primacy in Christianity has always been with Bishops just look at your Ecumenical Councils which literally defined the faith.

>And look at the other Church Fathers. They all had mystic inclinations.

You keep on drawing these wider bows and watered down definitions, is it really worth torturing your mind this way to keep up the illusion that Buddism does not have a greater tradition of meditation and mysticism?

Why is Buddhism having this trait so repugnant to you? Its not like it has any bearing on its truth.

Could be that your pronouncments in >>137226350 were also hyperbole?

>>137239251
My grandmother was a deeply spiritual christian, but kept it very hidden. I think I kind of inherited it from her. The western world may not fit the christian ideal, but the western mind was born out of the judeo christian legacy, and so I think many of the moral/existential problems can be addressed by Christianity. Like a key unlocking a door, both were made by the same craftsman.

>>137239053
>Christianity has a huge contemplative component. Why are you denying this?

I'm not denying that it doesn't have a contemplative component. I'm denying that it's huge (which it isn't) and that it's central to Christian doctrine. You are just conflating mysticism with catholicism in order to bolster that claim.

Look at it this way, can a christian be denied the pearly gates if he hasn't lived as a contemplative/monk?

>>137239471
>You are starting to draw a long bow here just being spiritually minded =/= mysticism or monasticism and saying that seminary is monastic living is about as valid as saying RCIA is seminary living.
Not him but priests in training have to give away all their belongings, move into shared spaces, take orders and follow strict daily rules, , very much like monks. So he is 't wrong but yeah priests are not exzactly monks and most monks aren't priests. Btw being and becoming a priest is hardly then being a monk in catholic

>>137239053
>The monastic tradition is alive and well. I know of several monasteries around my area and all over Australia

Then why are their numbers decreasing?

http://www.catholicaustralia.com.au/church-in-australia/facts-figures

In just two years there were 700 less nuns and 60 less monks (or down 5.5%)

>>137219824
Buddhism isn't really a religion it is more of a philosophy.

>>137240197
>Btw being and becoming a priest is *harder* then being a monk in catholic

>>137240197
My issue was in conflating the two. Source on

"have to give away all their belongings" or do you mean it in the same way soldiers "give up their belongings"

>>137240287
Only a new age westerner would say that .
Buddhism is a religion, deal with it,

>>137219824
Buddism is Hinduism for Plebs

File: DGtDtu8XoAAWS7i.jpg large.jpg (77KB, 663x770px) Image search: [Google]

77KB, 663x770px

>>137230804
>>137230538
Really triggers my sultanas there ya gook

What if it turns out that Guatama Siddartha was in fact an white aryan and a bunch of non whites now today continue practicing his ways?

>>137240679
>Hwhite
>Born in India
Really activates my almonds

>>137239471
>>137239684


Catholics believe that monastic life draws you closer to God, and gives you a more ordered life. But the works of both consecrated Catholics and lay Catholics justifies them before God in the end.

Buddhists believe that monastic life is a way to hasten your salvation, and that lay Buddhists are putting their salvatiion to the way side by not participating in monastic life.

Very different. But also very similar. I don't see how one tradition, in practical terms, is greater than the other.

My criticisms of Buddhism go deeper than the actions of the Buddhists. Their belief system is flawed. It prizes individual effort in a dead, mechanical universe. Contrast that with Christianity which prizes surrender to the divine. Only by thinking deeply about it can you appreciate that.

>>137240769
>“ânanda, among the towns and cities that are centres of congregation and commerce of people of the Aryan race, his new town will become the greatest city, called Pàñaliputta, a place where goods are unpacked, sold and distributed, but it will be in danger from flood, fire and internal dissension”

>>137240287
Ahh... that's just because it's mostly the "philosophy" that you see consumed in the marketplace. Says nothing about the religiosity of the full tradition. If it has to do with a person seeking ultimate meaning and purpose, I'd say that's a religion. You can be plenty religious within a legit buddhist lineage.

>>137240221

That can be correlated with the decline of Catholicism in general.
It doesn't prove that Catholicism isn't contemplative.
The fact that there are monks and nuns at all is proof that it is.

File: IMG_9237.jpg (31KB, 470x313px) Image search: [Google]

31KB, 470x313px

>>137240679
I dunno faggot

Get back on the zabuton and work it out homo

File: 00000002-2-1.jpg (51KB, 444x639px) Image search: [Google]

51KB, 444x639px

>>137240769
>Be street shitter
>Praise blue men gods and their technology
>still shit in the street
You pajeets could not have any way built those ancient temples you're totally incapable, theirs a reason why your caste system has whiter indians at the top ruling class. Holy fuck you're brown

>>137240917
You should look at the tradition of the 84 mahasiddhas in India. In the Vajrayana, it's actually the highest path to live in the world, because avoiding it is a rejection of it's sacredness. Also called the "householder yogi" lineage.

>>137241081
>zabuton
>had to google that shit
the fuck you know that faggot shit ya poof suck a dick

>>137241328
>it's actually the highest path to live in the world, because avoiding it is a rejection of it's sacredness

Interesting.
Christians also praise married life as a noble vocation.

Also, they strongly condemn any theology that claims the world is evil and needs to be outright avoided. That was very much put to bed when the early Church came to blows with the Gnostic Christians.

File: IMG_6853.jpg (114KB, 960x642px) Image search: [Google]

114KB, 960x642px

>>137241656
>he uses jewgle

>>137219824
Doesn't explain creation

No historical evidence to support Buddha's claims

Essentially allows followers to commit evil so long as they do some mundane karmic stuff to make up for it, as if this somehow undoes said evil

>>137241739
Check out "Secret of the Vajra World" by Reggie Ray if you want the deets on that.
>Also, they strongly condemn any theology that claims the world is evil and needs to be outright avoided. That was very much put to bed when the early Church came to blows with the Gnostic Christians.

Didn't know that actually.

>>137240917
>. I don't see how one tradition, in practical terms, is greater than the other.

I never said one was greater only that you mischaracterised both faiths in >>137226350 when you said that that

"Roman Catholic mysticism, has everything that Buddhism has"

and that it two had the emphasis (not just the existence of ) on meditation and mysiticism = to that of Buddhism.

After this whole exchange (where you went from it having just as much to simply it being present at all) do you still hold this view or was your earlier post a mistake or hyperbole?

>>137241078
>It doesn't prove that Catholicism isn't contemplative.

The conversation was never about whether or not there is a contemplative aspect of Catholicism only its realitive importance and prominence compared to Buddhism.

>The fact that there are monks and nuns at all is proof that it is.

That comment was more about outlining your misleading language. This case alive and well meaning simply existing. Would you think it would be honest of me to say that Christianity in Iraq is alive and well?

File: IMG_6847.jpg (105KB, 720x786px) Image search: [Google]

105KB, 720x786px

>>137241739
If you don't meditate there's no point in you studying Buddhism or talking about it

I hereby declare your belief system 100% correct, go in peace

>>137219824
jews and affiliates hate it, so it's good

File: IMG_4573.png (683KB, 1136x640px) Image search: [Google]

683KB, 1136x640px

>>137242287
Pretty much this

It makes demand for goods go down, so humans become less shekel-obsessed – very dangerous to the hegemony

>>137230905
>Still it attracts hippies and house wives like nothing else unfortunately, I can see why had that trouble with the group.
You see me, anon.

>>137241290
>blue men
Wew
>>137241017
>religion started 2500 years after the said migration
>'' 'Aryan' ''

Anyway, the point that I'm trying to get across is that there is no real point in being anything other than a Christian, practically speaking.

Oh, you like the mysticism and meditation of Buddhism?
We have plenty of Church mystics and meditative practices to choose from. Take your pick.

You like the discipline and devotion of Islam?
The Church encourages that with frequent devotion down to the liturgy of the hours.

You like the pomp and ceremony of Hinduism?
Catholicism has all that and then some. Ever been to high mass?

Do you like the history and community of Judaism?
The Church has a richer history and a stronger community. I'd bet on it.

And the best thing about Christianity? It is well and truly catholic in all senses of the word. People are going to give side glances to a white Buddhist, or an asian Jew, or an african hindu. Even Islam falls into the trap of being drawn down ethnic lines. But no one bats an eye when they see a Christian of any race. It is just natural. Because this religion is catholic.

It just isn't practical to be anything else. Come home. Become Christian.

>>137242287
Exactly this.
Jews, non-white, leftists
They're all shitting their pants.

>>137242706
>a religion with objective reality and morality

>>137242252
You zen?

>>137242706
>But no one bats an eye when they see a Christian of any race.
That's why it's shit.

File: IMG_6261.png (443KB, 820x538px) Image search: [Google]

443KB, 820x538px

>>137242839
Nah dawg vipassana, but zen seems good and all. Anything without a mantra (tho "I am" is an interesting mantra option)

>>137243268
>(((goenka)))

>>137240917
>Buddhists believe that monastic life is a way to hasten your salvation, and that lay Buddhists are putting their salvatiion to the way side by not participating in monastic life.

Okay you clearly haven't read any buddhist literature on this matter. Introspection and insight, among other things, is a requirement for nirvana. Lay buddhists don't plan on being monks in this life but they plan to in the next life according to their beliefs (stream enterer). Buddhists don't take up the robe to 'hasten salvation' because it won't come to anyone as long as they dwell in samsara (wondering through birth). This is what I mean when I say that Buddhism is a more contemplative tradition than Christianity, it makes mysticism central to it's teaching whereas you can enter Heaven in christianity without being a monk.

>Their belief system is flawed. It prizes individual effort in a dead, mechanical universe.

This is so wrong but even then, whether or not Christian mysticism is more meaningful (imo it's just TM + bible verses), the methods of mysticism and meditation it has spawned is so vast that you just can't seperate it from buddhism. It's by far the most contemplative religion on earth.

>>137243268
Ok just as long as you aren't vegetarian. That I cannot abide.

Btw I'm pleasantly surprised at the depth of understanding on meditation and religion here on this racist ass board.

File: IMG_6180.jpg (348KB, 2000x1333px) Image search: [Google]

348KB, 2000x1333px

>>137243377
With Jews you win

>>137243450
*it = buddhism

File: IMG_6522.gif (55KB, 678x422px) Image search: [Google]

55KB, 678x422px

>>137243541

I still dont get it
Christianity is just as strange as Buddhism. It believes and blames sht on angels and demons and spirits. Christianity claims that all others who are not Christian immediately go to hell yet Buddhism doesnt do so and is in fact older than Christianity by thousands of years. There is some mysticism with Christianity where I cant think outside the existance of God and itself or else Id be commiting sin or being tempted by the devil. The whole gimmick with it is that there is a "day of judgement" where everyone will die or be sent to hell or heaven and live forever which doesnt make sense. In fact, if anything what about people who never hear the gospel, do they go to hell? If not, then what is the point of believing if they dont? I hate to be this kind of person, but I cant stop thinking how much all religions are some sort of gimmick to achieve followers and money and claiming that their belief is true, when in fact all of them have some sort of whack ass way of explaining things until they are reformed by modern science or technology (i.e. Christians used to punish scientists for claiming the earth is not the center, etc )

File: 1465290957898.png (1MB, 1292x928px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1292x928px

>>137242706
>yes goy become a catholic

no thanks

>>137243789

>he thinks that in 2000 years of christianity nobody has thought to ask his babby-tier questions
>or, you know, write literally thousands of pages of exegesis about them
>implying summerfag anon even knows what exegesis means

http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-life-and-religion/193989/the-roots-of-mindfulness

The more Jews meditating the better, oy!

>>137243789
Who is the person that gave you the idea that your current understanding of Buddhism and Christianity was complete?

Someone seems to have done a marvelous job of instilling a wonderful sense of intellectual hubris in you.

I've never read someone that expressed such certainty about such an elementary understanding of such deep and complex topics.

File: Check_This_Out.jpg (147KB, 1000x782px) Image search: [Google]

147KB, 1000x782px

>>137243541
>racist
You need to leave

>>137244281
That is literally the most I've ever laughed at anything an Indian has said.

File: FB_IMG_1451545925232.jpg (36KB, 960x720px) Image search: [Google]

36KB, 960x720px

>>137243789
(Cont) I really need help explaining what is the superior religion. I hate the thought of being atheist or agnostic. I am Christian but I have many questions that are outside the intent of the Bible. Pls help me anons. I dont see the logic in believing anymore because of all the similarities in which religions grab people (go to hell, go to heaven, get rich) and how explanations are limited but so far Buddhism seems based because of getting enlightened. However the caste system sounds like horsesht. I am just confused. The more I find the plotholes with religions the more I become agnostic/atheist scum. I dont want to be that.

File: 1487446946730.jpg (33KB, 480x360px) Image search: [Google]

33KB, 480x360px

>>137244531
Fag

File: 4chandoesreligion11.jpg (3MB, 4709x3586px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 4709x3586px

This post is >>137242706 is why 4chan and Christianity was a mistake. Such an utter lack of empathy and even a cursory knowledge of comparative religion. I can see why your points kept on changing and why your criticism was for all your vaunted deep thinking was so entry level.

For crying out loud you didnt even think about people following religious because they believe it to be the truth.

If you want to understand and reach others actually engage and research their faith - Im not even a Buddhist - but Im engaging with their thought to better understand it and reach its members.

People like you make being a christian all the much harder as I often get filled with doubt to know that such bad reasoning leads people to this Church.


Here is a figure you might actually want to read about

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ippolito_Desideri

File: IMG_5208.jpg (27KB, 500x375px) Image search: [Google]

27KB, 500x375px

>>137244662
Well, you can just do the meditation part of Buddhism and then follow whatever religious path seems best to you. It's perfectly compatible. I wouldn't call myself a Buddhist, even – I'm a [null]-ist.

Daily reminder that Buddhists are all going to hell

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4FGh6cMHB8

>>137244031
I know some people have asked about these questions, but they are all answered differently depending on the sect of Christianity which pisses me off. Afaik the similarity will all Christian sects are they just reference the verse that God just exists because he does, and that everything God wills is unquestionable even if we would think it to be wrong in a way.

I mean, since you sound like you know what you're talking about Id love to hear you explain why you continue and how to address these questions.

>>137244662
I underestimated you anon. You're a good kid.

You don't have to have anything figured out. Just explore different paths. If you are sincere you will have success in your heart.

>>137245138
Yeah, so I'm not one lol

>>137244727

Sikh. Makes perfect fucking sense.

>>137245280

Ah thanks. I really want to figure it out though. I hate going to church every Sunday feeling empty and having a lot of questions telling me why I am here or if my religion is true.

>>137245138
>buddhists are going to hell
>but race mixing christians are going to heaven

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oz3ccSJtJXA

dropped

>>137244886

No, you just don't understand.
I am specifically addressing white westerners who convert to wierd religions because they want something Christianity supposedly doesn't offer.

I'm not addressing people who were born into faiths like Buddhism. I'd be using much different language if I was.

That is why I am only talking in practical terms. Not arguing theology or which religion is right.

Of course I believe that Christian revelation is a true view of the nature of life and the cosmos, and that the one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church founded by the word made flesh is the sole keeper of God's message to humanity.
But arguing why I think that worldview is right is far beyond the scope of this thread

>>137245584
Find some time alone to really make an effort to have a quiet mind and then pray to Jesus with all your heart and then just relax the rest of the day knowing you've done your best, and just be open to life the rest of your time.

Questioning and feeling lost and feeling anxious about your spiritual situation are pretty normal.

>>137246075
By "having a quiet mind" I just mean set all your cares and preoccupations aside for a little bit and just be with Jesus.

File: FB_IMG_1451409049289.jpg (20KB, 500x402px) Image search: [Google]

20KB, 500x402px

>>137246235
Yeah the reason why Im not atheist or agnostic yet is because Christianity has helped me not become materialistic and become morally degenerate in a way. Of course atheists and agnostics can claim that they can be as well. However I guess I see the value in being Christian despite the plotholes is that it makes me detached from the ways of the world. When I doubt I start committing sin because I dont think hell exists anymore. I fluctuate between not committing sin and doing it because I dont believe in hell and want to enjoy my entire existence before I die. Its really confusing stuff

>>137247070
All that is great but the next step to go deeper than just being a good person (a good thing obviously) is to ask Jesus to begin to help you really open your heart and to love other people. Ask him for what's next for you.

Don't get caught up in the philosophical debates about doctrine, etc. The more pressing need for you is finding what is real about your connection with Jesus.

Also, don't be so hard on yourself. Just relax and enjoy your life, but keep in touch with Jesus in a sincere way every day at least once if you can. Just renew the connection and then relax and live your life.

>>137245818
But it seems to me that Christianity doesn't offer a secular approach to meditation. The most prevailing approach in buddhism is mindfulness of breath which doesnt require you to believe in any spooks like rebirth and karma, just focusing on the breath. Whereas christian meditation requires that you believe in or at the very least focus on jesus, God, the divine, etc. I guess what im saying is that some people dont want use subjects of meditation they feel to be unsubstantiated. I personally think that they are just tools to get people interested in the theology rather than the spiritual benefits of christian meditation.