>healthcare isn't a basic human right because you don't

>>136878786
>conservatives

Not about conservatives. Liberals are against it too. Ask the Jew why he thinks it's a better idea to spend money on wars for Israel rather than the health of the folk.

Not an argument

>>136878786
Every obese person in America will pay 200,000 MORE dollars than an average person in healthcare. Are you ready to foot the bill?

>The Constitution guarantees that every American has a right to a lawyer or attorney. I

Because you are being forced to attend court.

No one forced you to smoke a pack of Marlboros every day for thirty years.

>>136878786
Living is not a human right, justice is

The state imposes justice on you, so the state provides representation.

The state doesn't impose disease.

>>136879022
We need to implement better health programs as well. We are pretty unhealthy as a nation. Sugar, salt, and fats are addictive. The ought to be regulated like any other addictive substance that is detrimental to your health.

>>136878786
>healthcare isn't a basic human right because you don't have a right to the labour of another person
Yet the government has the right to tax your labor somehow.

>>136878786
Hospitals already by law cannot turn people away. That's your 'right to a lawyer' right there.
Have you had a public attorney before? Have you used a public hospital for late stage cancer?
Plus, the right to a lawyer doesn't imply free. You will pay court fees for your shit lawyer and go to prison if you lose.
Will your health courts just sentence people to their fates after giving them their free doctors that still cost them?
would you prefer we all have the shit hospital emergency room level health care? Give up the right to choose your doctor and have it assigned like your lawyer.
No discussion of right to doctors and hospitals is found in the Constitution.
And do you think Healthcare is the same as health insurance?
We should take on socialized medicine. It would basically cease outright and and entirely the development of medical technology.

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>>136878786
REAL NEWS BREAKING
http://archive.is/bh8JU

>>136879022
So fine the fat people. This is not an argument against it.

>>136878786
>UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE WOULD FORCE DOCTORS TO DO THEIR JOB
>THEY'RE ENSLAVED EVEN THOUGH THEY COULD QUIT THEIR JOB AND THEY GET PAID A SHIT TON
jesus christ that is the worst argument against universal healthcare

>>136878786
Go to any hospital.
There is all the healthcare you can stomach waiting for you.
You equate healthcare with health insurance like a lot of other retards.

>>136879714
Off my /pol/, Rodger Stone.

>>136879575
I hope you are aware that the entire world is laughing at your country being the first military power and 2nd economical power in the world and still not having healthcare in 2017!

Isn't this pic from like 2014? Like media was sperging about Rand's statement

>>136879588
>the us government is already bloated and can basically do nothing efficiently or proficiently
>give it more power and more responsibility
Genius plan!
We can all be shocked when they botch that too.

>>136879728
So you are pro forcing hospitals to foot the bill when an uninsured person goes to the emergency room?

If not, you are in favor of socialized healthcare.

>that picture
Holy strawman batman

>>136879910
I hope you are aware that
>The world is laughing at you!
is not an argument.

>>136879910
When and why did your country adopt its healthcare system?

>>136878786
The lawyers are government employees though. Its not like you just get whichever lawyer yoi want. Also they get so overworked that they can't do their job effectively.

>>136879977
Are you against military spending as well? Hypocrites all of you.

>>136878786
Rand Paul really is a dick.

>>136880226
At this point I am against the government gaining any additional power until it does a good job wielding what it currently has.

>>136879910
The world is going to laugh at us no matter what we do, so who fucking cares? Heavy lies the crown.

The right to a lawyer is basically the cost of law enforcement shared equally if you didn't have a right to a lawyer then those accused of crimes would carry an unfair share of the burden of law enforcement

>>136880037
No, I am for the uninsured person footing the bill for their own healthcare.

If the us federal government didn't suck more than your mother after 9 coronas I would be willing to discuss it getting further involved in the issue.

>>136879720
yeah, it is an argument against it, because the same INSANE leftists shilling for UHC are also the same ones shilling for FAT ACCEPTANCE. this is how retarded cuckservatives get tricked and lose so badly to the left. "w-w-well we'll pass single payer and then to make it affordable and more fair we'll later pass a tax for the people who are the most unhealthy" and the leftists have their victory and shut down all your attempts to make the system less burdensome on the whites that will have to pay for it by calling it (((discrimination))) and calling you a bigot for even suggesting it.

>>136880400
ding ding ding

>USA decides to not do anything with Nork
"USA are pussies! Whaaa save us!!! Why didn't USA help SouK?!"

>USA fights NorK
"Fucking imperialist scum! USA is so bad!! booo!!!"

All you fucks bitching about the USA being bad or evil or wrong should take a deep hard look in the fucking mirror and then go clean your rooms. Canada is included in this.

>>136880617
>$500,000 bill for livesaving surgery from accident
>Guy works for $20/hour, has $10,000 saved up.
>Hospital takes all his money, still out $490,000 that this guy will never be able to repay.

And how does this work exactly?

>>136880829
Honorary American?

>>136878786
Nice strawman fag. When the government charges you with a crime they are then imposing a duty onto you, therefore they are obligated to supply you a defense if needed.

>>136880707
There are no arguments in what you just posted, just nonsense.

What are you arguing for? What policies?

>>136880845
Why didn't he use some of that savings and purchase his own health insurance?

>>136879726
"Healthcare is a right" is the single most retarded statement anyone can make. Sorry for intellectualising this, I know leftypol hates it, but I have to.

What's the definition of a right? Ask yourself that. It would be something along the lines of: being able to unequivocally receive whatever it is at anytime from anyone without hindrance e.g. free speech. If healthcare fits that definition, then I'm able to walk up to a homeless man on the street and demand that he treats my cancer and if he doesn't then I can take him to court.

So stop throwing this "healthcare is right" bullshit around and start saying what you really mean. You mean to say that everyone should have the option to access free healthcare from a medical professional, but not necessarily any medical professional, at any time.

Now I'll ask how you plan to finance that. I'm not paying shit towards your free healthcare. Why should I?

I hope the real Americans invoke their second amendment right soon and end the tyranny they've been subjected to. Unfortunately in this authoritarian shithole called Europe, we didn't have any such founding fathers to provide us with a way out so we're stuck with it.

>>136879910
>Doesn't have healthcare
Can confirm, not a hospital or doctor anywhere in the country.

>>136880845

>Guy purchases health insurance, regularly pays into it.
>The cost of his health insurance is determined by factors of risk in his life. If he becomes unhealthy, smokes, etc, he may have differently priced health insurance.
>Multiple insurers compete in the market, thereby reducing the cost.
>When he gets in an accident, the accident is paid for by the pool of covered people that he has been paying into for years and years.
>Everyone is covered in the pool, insurance companies make money, everyone receives their healthcare for a small payment every month rather than paying thousands and thousands of dollars in the event something happens.

This is the way it happened for the last 40 years or so before Obama, and there wasn't really a problem with it.

>>136879910
The rest of the world can laugh down the barrel of a rifle for all the good it does them
Don't you have someone to surrender to you socialist cuck?

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>>136878786
So firemen, policemen, and road builders are enslaved? Libertarian are honestly the most retarded people in existence.

Fat people are now oppressed... How long before this spread to other campuses? Will they add a W to LGBT? Will they add a doughnut to the fag flag? Will you forced to hire fat people?

>>136880845

Why do you care? It is that person's issue to sort out. They can ask their community for help, get some well-structured payment plans in place.

If I do not have auto insurance why should you replace my car? Is it fair for me to tell you that you owe me because I had an accident and now my car is busted and I can't go to work?

Just stop and take the fucking feelings out of your arguments for once.

Maybe what needs to be considered is WHY the service costs so god damn much in the first place, and not that it should be paid for by the public, you fucking pleb. Could it be that cronyism and regulations cause cost to skyrocket? Golly gee... I never stopped to look past my emotions and possibly consider that there is more than one solution to any problem....

>>136881141
He was a stupid alt right faggot anarchist who emancipated himself at 16 and thinks he is invincible.

No parents, no relatives. He's an orphan.
And no church obviously since he's a faggot russian cock sucker.

>>136881308
forgot link.
https://www.campusreform.org/?ID=9570

>>136880899
I want to become one sometime, but I am currently working on a degree. Been working for a US company for 10 years, only gone on a few bike trips down, but want to taste the freedom every god damn morning.

>>136879910
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlOSdRMSG_k

>>136878786
The purpose of the lawyer is to defend you against the state, not against the maladies of the universe. And logistically speaking, defense attorneys are much easier to provide since people rarely if ever need them, one lawyer can cover the labor necessary for many people, and the government doesn't have to be involved in managing the vast majority of legal services to guarantee legal coverage for all people.

Also the quality provided by public defenders is pretty bad and rationing is a major problem in high crime areas which demand the most services.

>>136881161
>ou mean to say that everyone should have the option to access free healthcare from a medical professional, but not necessarily any medical professional, at any time.
Yes, that is what Medicare for All is. Go fucking read it faggot. The financing is all there.

Why do you oppose it? It's cheaper than the stupid fucking obamacare plans that you all hate.

Repeal and replace my ass you fuckheads. If you were serious about it, you would have had a plan.

>>136881307
You're retarded for misinterpreting the argument. The argument isn't that the doctors choosing to work for the system are slaves, it's that if healthcare is a right, it means I could ask you on the street to treat my cancer and take you to court if you refuse. Then there's the small issue of why the fuck am I paying for your free healthcare? Get off your ass and earn some money if you want the privilege of healthcare.

>>136881307

No, because you don't have a "right" to roads or firemen or police. Once you start demanding that something is your "right" that's when you have to then coerce someone else to give it to you.

If I say you have a "right to food" then you can technically just walk in the grocery store and take it off the shelf and not pay for it. After all, it's your right, is it not?

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>>136878786
>muh free shit

>>136879977
God, I can't wait for summer to end.
Most institutions that we enjoy in modern society rely heavily on government and regulation. Sure its not perfect, but without it we would be fucking savages.

>>136879910
Our actual care is better than yours.

>>136878786
I don't think people understand what a right is. I have the right to bear arms, but the government isn't obligated to buy me the best quality rifle that the system can offer.

>>136881078
>Every obese person in America will pay 200,000 MORE dollars than an average person in healthcare. Are you ready to foot the bill?

you claimed this wasnt an argument against UHC, saying HUR JUST FINE THE FAT PEOPLE MORE >>136879720 and i explained why that wouldnt work and why telling healthy, whiter people that they need to be ready to foot the bill for everyone else IS an argument against UHC. was this really that hard to follow?

>>136881593
Why do we oppose it? Jesus. Answer this: why should I be forced to pay for your healthcare?

>>136881665
You do have a right to food, we have a thing called foodstamps

>>136878786
you have the right to healthcare, yes, go out and buy some

>>136880226
The military is plagued by massive waste, but they are a necessary service. Moreover, they are a service with no viable business model, they are an expenditure and an expenditure alone much like police and the courts.

>>136878786

Just fucking start by being able to buy cross-state insurance.

After that go on your political dicksucking carousel.

>>136881734
If you have the money. We have some of the best doctors in the world, but what use is it if the middle class can't afford them.

>>136879910
I hope you know the world has been laughing at your country since WW1

>>136881593
>The financing is all there.

What the fuck are you talking about? It's going to cost 400 BILLION dollars in CA to do this, they don't even know how they are going to pay for it, the state doesn't even have 10% of it.
http://www.latimes.com/politics/essential/la-pol-ca-essential-politics-updates-single-payer-healthcare-plan-advances-1496361965-htmlstory.html

Feefees:
>“Despite the incredible progress California has made, millions still do not have access to health insurance and millions more cannot afford the high deductibles and co-pays, and they often forgo care,” Lara said during a floor debate on the bill.

Facts:
>“We don’t have the money to pay for it,” Sen. Tom Berryhill (R-Modesto) said. “If we cut every single program and expense from the state budget and redirected that money to this bill, SB 562, we wouldn’t even cover half of the $400-billion price tag.”

>>136878786
>Why are Conservatives so fucking stupid? The Constitution guarantees that every American has a right to a lawyer or attorney. It's literally the same thing.
No it isn't. The government doesn't force you into a hospital when you're sick. The government DOES force you into a trial when you're accused of a crime. Because the government is forcing you into something, the Constitution makes it so they have to provide you a lawyer and a fair trial.

>>136881307
Also that pic is stupid as shit. Anything on the left is government tyranny.

>hurr durr muh social contract taxation is voluntary

Climb out of your ass.

Only the purple is free. Corporate tyranny results from government intervention like overregulation and subsidies. Pick up a book on economics and stop listening to Bernie gimmedat Sanders going on about
>muh 1 puh cent

>>136878786
You have a right to get a car, but you must still pay for it.

>>136879910
>"still not having healthcare"
>implying America doesn't have a single doctor
>implying America doesn't have a single hospital
>implying America doesn't have the best trained, best educated doctors in the world
You dipshit.

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>>136878786
You don't. I don't have to perform any labor for you, for any reason. I own my own business, and there are plenty of dickhead customers that I flat out won't work for anymore. Especially liberals.

>>136882104
>muh un
Thanks for the chuckle.

>>136878786
they have the right to STATE lawyers provided by THE GOVERNMENT.

not to private lawyers with their own practices

stupid hideous nigger.

>>136880262
He's not wrong. If he were you'd be able to argue against his logic.

>>136881799
Because I would also be paying for yours

>>136881665
No you don't. Show me in the constitution or any other founding document where you are explicitly guaranteed a right to food.

Just because you have a fucking entitlement doesn't mean it is a RIGHT. The government could end the foodstamp program tomorrow if they had the balls to do it, and NO ONE'S "rights" would be violated.

Go to your local foodstamp office and tell them you make 100k a year and you're here for your foodstamp card, and tell them it's your right, they will laugh you out of the office. You have to meet certain criteria (be poor, have a ton of kids, degenerate) before they'll give you aid. And welfare, food stamps, etc, are NOT RIGHTS.

Fuck you're retarded.

>>136879240
under fucking rated

>>136880262
It's why I vote for him every time. And will continue to do so. Pretty stoked he's one of my senators.

>>136881881
See:
>>136882387

>>136882104
A bunch of diplomats half-way around the world claiming you have a right to health care doesn't mean you do.

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>>136878786

>fills the country with immigrants no one has anything in common with

>demands all the citizens to give up their income to help everyone else

>but we're all part of the 'human race', it is a 'human right'

'humanism' is a fantasy. rights do not follow from the ideas of prof schlomo. but from things that men have done and sacrificed. in duties, a word that has doubtless never left your tongue. you despise the two things that embody duty: patriotism and religion. so you will reap what you sow. nothing.

>>136882254
Not to mention all the top 20 medical schools are American, most drugs in the world are American and almost all of the worthwhile medical research is conducted in America. There's a reason people flock to America in their hundreds of thousands for healthcare each year rather than the other way round. If America falls to the single payer shills, humanity will suffer big time. Stay strong America.

>>136878786
>legal analogy

Ok fine. You go with the shitty physician with a mile high stack of patients to see that day but stop trying to prevent me from using my resources to procure superior care for myself and my family. Because you see, I'm not a worthless commie with a gibs attitude.

>>136880262
He's the dick we need, but apparently not the one we deserve.

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>>136882562
This is perhaps the first time I've ever seen a pro-American style healthcare argument from a Brit.
>Based

>>136882511

Saved, great sentence.

>>136882074
Not just in the upper echelon of incomes. Prior to Obamacare the middle class had great and affordable healthcare. Deductibles, premiums, copays -- everything has skyrocketed to provide subsidized care to the poor and abjectly sick. The middle class has since stuck with minimal usage of health services or foregone insurance entirely in spite of the mandate.

My premium pre-Obamacare was $65/mo. for better care, better copays and vastly better deductibles. It's over $200/mo. now and the cost of utilizing services outside of a free yearly doctor's visit is too high for me to bother with.

>>136879588
>we need to regulate salt, sugar and fats
Fuck off, commie.

>>136882328
saddam and gaddafi managed to do it

>>136882377
Then by that logic why don't we save ourselves the trouble and pay for our own care?

I don't want to pay for your care and I don't want you to pay for mine. I want to pay for mine and I don't give a shit if you want to spend on healthcare or not. It's none of my business so fuck off out of my bank account.

>>136882019
> Moreover, they [the military] are a service with no viable business model
Oh, my dear friend, how little you know of history. Even the Greeks and Romans had men who knew how to make a living out of killing. There is a viable business model in a privatized military. You might not like what it loks like, though.

>>136882387
>>136882387
Everyone has a right for a minimum standard of living. It may not be written in the Constitution, but that's just how it is now bud. If you make 100k a year you don't need assistance to get food, you already have the means to get it. If not, you are given the means to get food by the government.

>>136882765
Oh look another leaf namefagger. If only there were a website that I could offer you some sort of epoints or karma for your post and your clever username, that way you'd be able to know that I care about what you have to say...

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>>136879575
>>136879240
Discussion ended here, why does this thread still exist? OP eternally BTFO

>>136882493
I bet n korea does it

>>136879910
>leftist using shame tactics
how's that been working for you, alinskyite?

>>136878786
Your case is flawed by many degrees. 1. The government cannot force you to buy anything. This is why Obamacare went to SCOTUS so many times. 2. Read the constitution. 3. Th right to have an Attorney present isn't something we are charged for simply for existing. It is to coincide with constitutional protection, against false imprisonment, et cetera.

>>136882109
Didn't you know the government has unlimited capacity to bear debt? Just ask Illinois.

>>136882832
Today there is no viable business model for a military providing the common defense. Pillaging hasn't sustained military action since Sherman.

>>136882460
>Nazi
>Voting for Rand Paul

choose one

>>136878786
I hope you get the same quality of doctor as you would get from a court-appointed attorney... and well you can only get those if you prove you are dirt poor.

>>136879022
But the average American is obese

>>136882104
So then why isn't the JewN enforcing this in shithole countries?

Oh right, its because they're a fucking worthless joke

>>136882797
Because it saves us all money, maybe you'd realize that if you were some crazy retard too afraid of BIG GUBMENT to support things that benefit you

>>136878786
Owning a weapon is a right because we have the right to defend ourselves however we can, since the dawn of time. However, we have to obtain the weapon ourselves, its not provided by the government unless you are law enforcement or military.

Its actually an ongoing debate if a lawyer should be provided. But, something that is debatable doesn't mean it should be immediately removed. The right to a fair trial is most important in this regard, or else we'd be chopping off heads on a daily basis.

Healthcare isn't a right because someone else has to provide it, whether it be drugs, examination or therapy. Then there's the issue of quality, amount of professionals and services available. Then the people who provide it want to be compensated fairly. No one wants to go through 8 years of rigorous, medical school only to perform a free surgery that only they can do in the whole town. If they did, less people would be interested in the profession.

>>136878786
Americans should at least be focused on making public universities cheaper.

>>136878974
He actually voted against increasing US budget by 100 billion. Oh, by the way, US military budget grew by 100 billion.

>>136882912

>It may not be written in the Constitution, but that's just how it is now bud.

Wow I'm glad we have somehow bypassed passing amendments and our entire judicial system and system of government in favor of "that's just how it is now, bud."

>Everyone has a right for a minimum standard of living.
No they don't. Why would anyone be homeless if they had a right to a "minimum standard of living?"

>If not, you are given the means to get food by the government.
Yes, but it is not a right. The government can cut your food stamps off at any point in time, and they are not violating your rights.

Why the fuck do you think you have a right to anything just for existing? Are you that selfish and grandiose that you really think that just because you exist you have a right to other people's labor or services?
I'm so embarrassed to be a fucking millennial.

>>136882912
>It may not be written in the Constitution, but that's just how it is now bud.
As long as we're imagining things into the Constitution, can I imagine the right to actual scientific facts instead of the bullshit made up by libtards like you who can't accept that race exists, gender chromosomes exist, and there is a clear hierarchy in both?
I'd consider a right to truth to be even more fundamental than a right to food. That makes YOU and all other liberals the people trying to deny me my rights.
Are you sure you want to play this game?

>>136883227
no one is asking doctors to work for nothing. ppl want single payer. if you cut out all the middle men helth care would be about 1/3 cheaper than it is now

>>136878786
>labour
>1 post by this ID

Good bait, fellow Leaf

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>>136879575
>The state doesn't impose disease.
>implying that it doesn't

>>136878786
If it's a right, then why didn't they have it in 1790?

>>136878786
>free healthcare is slavery
nowhere ever was it implied that medical professionals would not be paid for doing their job

>>136883292
This has a very simple solution. Let student loan debt be voided by declaring bankruptcy. Lenders will no longer be able to force hapless liberal arts majors into a lifetime of interest payments. As such exploitative loans to high risk women's studies majors and the like will cease. This will defund colleges, who will be forced to cull useless majors, administrative staff, and bloated campuses.

>>136878786
When the state calls you to court (something that would not exist without the state) you have a right to defend yourself.

You don't get called to the health clinic by the state to answer for bad health and put in prison if you fail on examination.

OP... just... Don't be retarded OK? (or the doctors will kill you)

>>136883385
>strawmanning me this hard

I'd be glad if that was implemented actually. However, it's not as if people from either side give a shit about science anyways, there are motherfuckers here that don't even believe that the earth is a spheroid. I like that little quip at them end like you expected to eternally btfo me and that I would be LIBERALLY SHAKING.

>>136883132
This for sure.
If you make even 15-20k a year, you don't qualify for a public defender. You're expected to pay for your own. I'm sure the cutoff varies by state, maybe even by county, for what it means to be "indigent."
But, if you ever get arrested, unless you truly do have the money sitting around to pay for a real attorney, make sure you lie and say you don't make very much, otherwise they will expect you to fork out 5-10k to put one on retainer, and of course you'll have to somehow do that from jail.

Anyone who has ever been through the system knows that public defenders just do plea deals all day. They don't take cases to trial, they don't fight their hardest for their defendants, it's not like the movies. It's literally the bare minimum required to shuffle you through the court system and get you to plead guilty in order to cut a deal. 95%+ of cases are plea bargained out. If one day everyone decided they wanted to take their case to trial, the entire legal system would collapse. We simply don't have the time, space, or resources to actually do that.

So, sure, if that's the kind of doctor you want, then go for it. But I'd rather have the doctor who is going to take his time and pay attention to me instead of just stick a band-aid over a gunshot wound and go collect his $75 check from the government for it.

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>>136880845
Obamacare destroyed catastrophic plans. Bait and switch.

>>136883166
I guess they just assume that if you write something into a document as a "right" that it will somehow materialize.

>>136879240
Bingo . Op is a commie >>136879681
Death panels bad

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>>136883693
This is actually an interesting solution.

The other thing to do would be to stop subsidizing college tuition. As soon as the government started saying "ok we will pay for everyone to go to college" guess what? Colleges raised their prices overnight.

And they keep raising them because you can't discharge them in bankruptcy, and they are insured by the government.
Everything in the attached pic that is skyrocketing in price is subsidized, everything that has gotten cheaper over the years via the free market, is not. hmmmmm

>>136880845
It doesn't cost $500,000, they just charge that because government/insurance companies will always pay whatever the hospital charges.

>>136882797
>2017
>he thinks his shitty bank account can even pay for his own healthcare alone

What are lifetime costs retard?

>>136879910
Pretty sure I just saw a doctor you fag

>>136882104
Standard of living adequate you retard. That means it's not fucking free, it means that health care needs to be a thing (a fucking hospital)

Why they are talking about is health insurance

>>136883066
You know most of the bases in CONUS are guarded by contractors, right? Last I checked it was Wackenhut, but they've changed their name since then.

>>136878786
You have the right to fuck a beautiful woman, that doesn't mean she must do it for free.

>>136878786
There is no right without duty, i believe.
I m more into one is free to care about his health.
My socialism is fucked like its easier for the gibs than the worker to maintain good health.

>>136883437
what is the cost of medical drugs? What is the cost of staying over night at the hosp? What is the cost of the person doing the surgery.

Fucking dimwit

>>136883212
It would save me money you say? So if I'm making 300k and I pay an effective tax rate of 50% in federal tax after the system is implemented when I currently only pay 33%, that's $50,000 a year in healthcare costs and I get a much shittier service.

>Saves us all money
Ah yes, having billions and billions go missing or spent carelessly on baby massage classes as it is here in the UK is certainly saving money. I mean who gives a shit if you waste $10 million on the wrong kind of soap? The money supply is endless after all! It's free!

Doesn't sound like it would save me money at all actually.

>some crazy retard too afraid of BIG GUBMENT
Are they listening to us right now? Sorry Mr. Government I was wrong. Praise be to the holy government! Thank you kind government for letting me live! Please spare me!

You statist teenagers are no better than the evangelical Christians you look down on. Your God is the government.

A free market healthcare system would save everyone more money, continue to provide an environment for research and the advancement of medicine and provide everyone with a better, more efficient service.

I'd rather have the option to take out a big loan and get surgery than die in a 6 month waiting line for a appendectomy.

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>>136878786
>and even more of a basic human right than owning a gun.

I buy my guns for myself, I don't demand other tax payers buy them for me your analogy is flawed.

>>136884357
What the hell are you asking? That was completely nonsensical.

>>136879588
the problem is that we DONT use salt, sugar and fats, and instead use tons of artificial chemicals.

if ONLY we used salt and sugar!

>>136884629
it's not worth it is it?
especially for a pathetic pos like you

>>136879588
Or we could just reward basic self-control in the form of much lower premiums and let the fatties try and pay unsubsidized health care premiums then die at 30.

>>136878786
Why don't have the right for food then? Food is definitely a basic human necessity.

Universal healthcare will be stupid cattlecare for stupid taxpayers! The party will grant to its favorites the better care - and generation after generation, both the better care and the cattlecare will degrade.

SOCIALISM IMPOVERISHES THE WORLD!

the american system is a make work project for the insurance industry

>>136880845
>>136880845
File chapter 7 throw the 10k in exempt assets and continue living your life?

>>136878786
>Why are Conservatives so fucking stupid? The Constitution guarantees that every American has a right to a lawyer or attorney. It's literally the same thing.

You don't understand that law and considering you're an obvious Bernout that doesn't surprise me.
The court cannot deny you an attorney, but it isn't required to supply you with one. That service is supplied at the request of tax payers and is not mandated by constitution or local law.
There's a difference between a law that prevents the courts from denying you a service and a law that mandates that service is supplied at the point of punishment.... You fucking moron.

One of the biggest problems with the American health system is a lack of doctors, so why aren't there tax breaks for becoming a doctor or nurse or operating medical devices?

>>136880845
>Do you even understand the concept of insurance?
Many labor workers I know who work for a hourly wage have unreal benefits from the company they work for. They have access to the best dental and medical care. Why don't people just work for their own shit?

>>136878786
Every American has a right to an attorney in the case they absolutely require one. You can't get a free one just because you want to sue your neighbor or because you are mad at the grocery store.

The same applies to health care - you do realize hospitals don't turn anyone away, no matter their financial and insurance situation, as long as it is an absolute emergency, right? If you are dying they will save you - then it's your problem, yes, but the amount that you're comparing it to is already the system.

the right says you don't have a right to the doctors services but the insurance companies apparently have a right to 1/3 of your health care dollars

>>136880845
>$500,000 bill for livesaving surgery from accident
This happens in the first place as a result of licensing boards artificially restricting the supply of doctors to only those trained in the US, of regional monopolies where new competition is stifled by sheer volume of red tape and other external expenses, and other government interference. In the handful of unregulated health services left like laser eye surgery prices have PLUMMETED over the past few decades.

>Guy works for $20/hour, has $10,000 saved up.
Sounds like he would have been perfectly capable of buying insurance pre-Obamacare and enjoyed a deductible which would maybe hit half his savings.

>>136878786
Because it explicitly lays out what your rights are. I just reread the Constitution, and healthcare is no where to be found

>>136878786
There is a difference between a aged proffesional in one of the most requirement heavy careers and some random mook to bullshit about how your drunken driving killing only 5 people wasnt that bad.

>>136879022
After you factor in dying early and not getting two or three extra decades of social security, housing, medicare, medicaid, etc smokers and fatties cost the system way less

>>136886836
I miss the good ole' day when you could roast a person in dialogue.... then for real.

>>136886278
wasn't that around the time ppl were burning witches?

>>136886278
some ppl were 3 5ths of a person

>>136886278
medical ppl used leech and bled you

>>136887435
leeches*

>>136878786

OOHH WOULD YOU LIKE FRIES WITH THAT QUENTIN

then don't become a healthcare worker you lazy nigger.

I know some doctors, if I beat down their door with a broken leg at 2 am they'd drive me to the hospital to get treatment FROM SOMEONE ON SHIFT

Americans aren't people they're cattle for the war machine

>>136878786
>The Constitution guarantees that every American has a right to a lawyer or attorney.
Which is fucking stupid too, so you're not helping your argument

>>136883686
If it is a right then that means you are entitled to someone's labor whether you pay them or not. If you have to pay them (through taxes in this case) then it's not a right, it's a privilege.

>>136887735
>then don't become a healthcare worker you lazy nigger.
yeah, let's have a shortage of doctors because poorfags can't just die with what little dignity they have and feel entitled to being treated medically for no reason other than existing, i mean existence is really impressive

right to work is another case where the right thinks ppl have a right to other ppl stuff

if trump gets into a war with korea and drafts you, doesn't that give him the ultimate right to risk your life? the rich don't want you to get anything but they may want you to risk your life for this system

>>136878786
you know what... that is a pretty good point

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oh

so.. rand paul is a fucking hypocrite.
who knew?

>>136879910

Went to the doctors today. Paid 40 bucks. That's probably your weeks salary though.

in case anyone doesn't know, right to work would force unions to protect anyone the company hires. even if he doesn't pay dues.
union lawyers and dues payers would have no say if the employee can't be bothered to show up for work.

>>136879022
>le fat people meme
They're way outnumbered by people with aging-related illnesses or common things that you can't blame them for.

>>136890327
that giving ppl a right to someone else's work/money isn't it?

>>136879681
>We should take on socialized medicine. It would basically cease outright and and entirely the development of medical technology.
lol

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>>136878786
>>136883300
>1 post by this id

>>136878786
I have a right to masturbate on your face you mother fucker. If you do not accept my splooge on your forehead, I'll sue you for being a gay homo

>>136882694
>Uhmerica owes it to the world to die earlier and pay more
Get fucked memeflag stormfag.

>>136890542
nice source. a third of america is obese. this will accelerate the aging-related illnesses or common things you are trying to say have nothing to do with the increasingly sedentary lifestyle of the country

>>136879240
/thread

>>healthcare isn't a basic human right because you don't have a right to the labour of another person
The most retarded thing is that they get fucking paid for it. Doctors in the public system get paid. They're not fucking conscripted. The government offers jobs to the market in the public sector and doctors accept them.

>what if all the doctors refused but!!!
Then the government would offer more money and healthcare would get more expensive.

Rand Paul is a fucking retard too caught up in ideology to see how the world actually works.

>>136880829
Amen

if doctors don't wanna work let in foreign doctors.
I bet they change their mind real fast

>>136891736
works in every other field

>>136879667
the government has the right to charge a fee for the basic universal services: justice system (including police), infrastructure, and military (defense). The taxpayer has the right to participate in gov via representatives.

Representation validates taxation.

But taxing you to pay other things that the market or charity can provide is abuse of power.

>>136884265
100% THIS

>>136878786
>Healthcare is just as much of a basic human right as having a lawyer
then why isnt that in the Constitution?

>>136878786
>The Constitution guarantees that every American has a right to a lawyer or attorney. It's literally the same thing.
>Healthcare is just as much of a basic human right as having a lawyer, and even more of a basic human right than owning a gun.
But anon, the Constitution doesn't guarantee a right to health care. Government generally doesn't make people sick as a result of exercising its powers; however, government does make arrests as a result of exercising its powers. A right to a defense (via competent lawyer/attorney) is necessary to prevent abuse by government. A right to a doctor is not. One follows directly from government action, the other does not.

>>136893884
back in the days when the barber also pulled teeth
and cleaning wounds was done with whiskey or dirty water

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>>136882167
>Unregulated Capitalism is a good thing

Wew. You can't be serious.

>>136879240
Lol but your body forces to deteriorate no matter what. FOOD makes it deteriorate, you are going to get sick or do something dumb once in your life that requires medical care. Don't be so fucking dumb, this question is gay.

>I don't want to pay for other people's healthcare

But you guys already pay more than other developed nations for healthcare with your current system.

Not to mention healthcare bills are the number 1 cause of bankruptcy.

https://www.cnbc.com/id/100840148

>>136878786
>1 post by this ID
>>136879240
at least the fucking obvious was up by the 4th post this time. i guess

What is your fair share of someone elses work?

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>>136878786

He's right though, that's why we need to employ foreigners for our NHS, because we would have to force people who are born in this country to work for a wage lower than what it should actually be.

America would be much worse, do you really think the US socialists would pay more than we do considering how disgustingly cheap Amerisharts are? They literally dip chickens in bleach and chlorine before eating them.

>>136892327
Then get rid of the military then. Contract out to PMCs.

Its not though commie.

>>136896881
>Your body kills itself
Your fault for not becoming immortal, faggot.

>>136878786
Huh?

The sixth amendment reads:

"In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right [....] to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence."

Does it say who pays ?

I think it was much later (20th century?) that the courts ruled that society would provide counsel in certain cases. And no it does NOT say who pays. Only people from our century would construe this clause to imply that it was to be 'On The Dole'. Most likely this was to stand in contrast to "courts" which may hoist a defendant on a stand, alone to his own wits, if he had any, and answer to the man in the wig.

Anyway, thanks for the troll thread. Looks like u hit a button with it.

>>136878786

But healthcare isn't in the Constitution, so why do you insist its a right?

>>136878786
No that's not the proper analogy. The proper analogy would be "you have the right to a lawyer. [regardless if the government is charging you with a crime or not]"

Free lawyers for everyone folks!

Civil rights are different than human rights stupid ass lefty

>>136879910
>laughing

No they are not, they have an inferiority complex and are engaging in variety of psychological defense mechanism.

Funny enough, they can be as great as the US (economically great, not territory wise), all they have to do is get off their people's backs and allow me to pursue their dreams in the free market freely.

Think about how hard it is to start a business in France? It takes 10 minutes in the US (you can do it online).

Well to be fair, not being enumerated in the constitution definitely does not preclude something from being a right.

My favorite amendment is 9 and 10 ( they are saying the some one thing):

"The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people."

But its definatley not a substantive right, cause it's not a "natural" right and, as u say, it does not appear in the constitution.

I think their closest cling-on was the "general welfare" clause which is an enumerated, and vague Af, power of congress. But remember this is moot ... it all came down to that they had the goods on Roberts, maybe his adopted child, and so it became a 'Tax' issue.

It's fun to play this Rights game OP n'est pas?

>>136878786
Not exactly, the reason why we have the right to counsel is because nobody would freely pay for a potential felon to have a lawyer.

90% of federal cases and ~75% of state cases end in a conviction, so these people most likely committed the crime they were charged with. The founders recognized that for the very poorest, if they were charged with a crime nobody would pay for their lawyer fees, making it more of a public concern.

But notice how the right to counsel is handled in our courts. In order to be issued a public defender, a judge first has to rule you to be "indigent". This means that the total net worth of your bank account and all your possessions combined has to be less than $2,500. THEN you can be issued a public defender. Even then, if the defendant pleads guilty, pleads no contest, or is convicted at a later date, the judge will add an attorney fee to the defendant as a way to pay back his public debt. So even though it is true that you do have a right to counsel, it's HARDLY a socialized system, and it's only a "right" if you're judged to be indigent.

What's the healthcare alternative, though?

Across human history it has been shown that humans will willingly give away money in order to help the poor and sick. In most religions it's an obligation. The need for the government to run a system of public assistance becomes completely unnecessary because the needs of those with very little will be met in a free society anyways. Up until the 1960s we didn't have any form of socialized medicine whatsoever, yet there were never people dying on the streets. The hospitals were mostly run by the churches and they never turned people away due to their ability to pay because of the charity of other people.

If there were to be any system in place to guarantee that the poor will have access to healthcare, then they should be determined to be indigent just like in our courts and assigned a public doctor.

But don't health care systems in Europe/Canada work pretty well? You can argue all you want about slavery and whatnot like Rand Paul does, but what if it's a practical solution? genuinely curious

>>136878786
> the constitution guarantees the right to an attorney
it does NOT however require an attorney to serve you.
if the state cant find a lawyer to take your case, they cant charge you
so you walk!

if the state cant find a doctor to take care of you, you simply die.
but that is unacceptable so the state will now impose it's will on doctors and hospitals.
thats very different dumbass.

>>136880226
Defending the State is a function of government, coddling you from cradle to grave is not.

>>136881307
firemen and policemen work directly for their local communities
they signed up to work for the state

road builders work for contractors who in turn work for the agency that wants a road
they work for the contractor not the state,
if they decide to work for a different contractor they can.

doctors work for THEMSELVES in private practice and for a medical group in a hospital.
if you "nationallize" the medical groups and hospitals doctors will all enter private practice

if you enslave the private practice physician, he has nowhere to turn.

youre retarded.

>>136878786
>something that doesn't exist in nature
>a human right
wew. good one OP

>>136878786
So you really love how the justice system is working??? Right?

>>136883300
bernie only takes controversial stances on votes that don't matter because he's just another kike playing his part in the machine

>>136902846
Even though unnecessary, this system will still somewhat work because it still allows freedom of those not determined to be indigent to go to whatever doctor they want which keeps the market competitive which keeps prices down. Plus, if this indigent person comes across any money in the future, they will owe a public debt that can be used to pay back what they owe.

What Bernie proposes is a system of SOCIALIZED medicine. That means that there are no private hospitals or doctors, or at least if there are any they're extremely expensive. Taxpayers pay into the same system to fund all public hospitals so that anybody can go in at any time and receive service without having to pay anything. This model is DEEPLY flawed.

When you guarantee service at any price(at this case $0), you place the burden of paying for supply on the taxpayer. If the price of healthcare increases, everybody has to pay more tax in order to support it. You can tax it directly, you can print the money(which is inherently a tax), or you can borrow the money, which becomes a tax eventually.

When you increase taxes, you decrease the amount of goods and services that people are able to buy. When you decrease the amount of goods and services people are able to buy, people buy less goods and services. When people buy less goods and services, the demand for goods and services decreases. When demand decreases, PRICE INCREASES.

Eventually not just the cost of healthcare, but the cost of everything goes up. This leads to more poverty and more suffering for the masses.

But hey, I'm sure they'll find a way to blame capitalism for the mess

>>136904066
ron paul was the master at that

>>136896881
The government forces you to attend court, so the government assures you a lawyer

The government is not responsible for you getting sick, so the government is not responsible for your healthcare

>>136883686
Slaves often got paid too.
Being a slave means not being able to refuse.

they force you to attend school but they're not responsible for you lack of education

>>136904528
hey that's taking other ppl's money and giving it to others

>>136903946

Most rights are things that don't exist in nature. The right to arm yourself? Doesn't exist. If someone disarms you in nature, there is no one to appeal to in order to redress that problem.

>>136904336
>checks flag
every fucking time

>>136904660
fuck off christfag. learn how economics work lmao

>>136880160
The French healthcare system is a gigantic meme/

We have a 200 billion deficit that we call " le trou de la secu ", literally the healthcare hole. This is caused by the fact that poor people abuse the shit out of the free healthcare they get and stock on pills they don't need.

We are basically financing our healthcare by getting massive loans that we know for a fact we will never be able to repay.

Universal healthcare not even once.

>>136881638
>why am I paying for your Healthcare?
It's more cost effective to have singleplayer universal healthcare, and cheaper per person.

Some day you will get sick, and then you don't have to worry about the cost.

But here's my counter: why the fuck am I paying for your firefighters and policing? I'm not setting my house on fire, and I'm not a criminal. If I ride a bicycle and choose not to have a car, why the fuck do my taxes pay for your highway repairs? If I have no kids, why do my taxes pay for public education?

Same situation.

It works better and makes more sense as a public service.

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>>136878786
>Health care a right just like legal representation.

YFW you realize how many get railroaded by the western right for legal representation system.

You really want a system appointed DR ?

You have the right to an attorney because the government is in control of our judicial system (which is one of the few fundamental purposes of government) and provides one as a service to the citizenry. That attorney is paid for by the government and is working voluntarily.

The government does not control healthcare, and it has no right to force private physicians to provide services.

>>136904894
Where does that come from? I'm here telling you the truth. Rights do not really exist in nature.

>>136905661
this ain't the bible belt, sweetie

>>136878786
>Rand "Get a warrant you fat fuck" Paul
>conservative

>>136905634
>The government doesn't control Healthcare.
Depends on the [spoiler]setting[/spoiler] country.

>>136905743
What is so Bible belt about pointing out that your philosophy and ethics understanding is flawed?

>>136905784
>defending chris christie
lmao wow. where did the bad man touch you?

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>>136881307
Green should be unenforceable tyranny

>>136895155
Freedom of speech was invented long before that. Should we throw that out too? How about protections from cruel and unusual punishment? Trial by jury? Hell, voting was invented by people 3,000 or so years ago. Perhaps that's also antiquated.

>>136878786
>The Constitution guarantees that every American has a right to a lawyer or attorney
MORON ALERT.
This only applies to cases where you face jail time.
You're not just given a lawyer for every case.

>>136905946
wow evangelize much? i have my own beliefs sweetie. thank you very much

>>136905987
When did I defend Crispy Cream. I'm just point out that Rand Paul isn't some shitty conservative but a based libertarian.

>>136879022
But obese take strain off the healthcare system.
They don't reach an old age of many chronic conditions.

Resolving legal disputes, that is disputes directly related to the laws of the nation passed by the State, is a necessary function of the State. No non-State institution can perform this function with legitimacy.

Providing health insurance or health care is not a necessary function of a State. Private institutions have been performing this function for centuries.

>>136906359
oh sweetie... this thread is an incoherent hot mess of stupid. you conservatives are so dumb

>>136879588
>let's solve a problem government regulation caused with more regulation

>>136906481
The government isn't your sugar daddy, cum dumpster.

>>136878786
>guarantees that every American has a right to a lawyer or attorney
no. the state must provide you with an attorney if they charge you with a crime. it is entirely up to the state whether or not to charge you with a crime. there is no "right to a lawyer"

>>136906749
what a little edgemaster. isn't it past your bedtime little guy? Or did mom let you have a bottle of mountain dew and now you're up late shitposting?

>>136878786
>The Constitution guarantees that every American has a right to a lawyer or attorney
I'm against that too. But you'll notice that in the case of attorneys, it is the GOVERNMENT who brings you to court. So it's a burden and constraint on GOVERNMENT, who incessantly pillages from the population to provide defense against GOVERNMENT to people who come under legal attack from GOVERNMENT.

>>136904660
wrong. it is impossible for something to be a right unless it is a right by nature. everything else is just empty bullshit politician lies for idiots.

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>>136879910
>2nd economical power

Economies ranked by GDP
1 United States 18,561,930
— European Union 17,110,523
2 China 11,391,619

>>136878786
wrong you fucking moron

>>136906203
Your belief is flawed, and based on false assumptions.

>>136906863
>sweetie posting libertarianism
you have to go back leaf

>>136907212
Your very existence is flawed, and based on false assumptions. and now its time to die

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>>136907029
Cause Lawyers exist in nature?
We have a right to a lawyer, Yet you don't see lawyer creatures or a lawyer material that we need by right.
No human animal is born a lawyer or neccesarily becomes a lawyer.

You are wrong about the nature of rights.

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>>136907328
I can't take you seriously. I could almost swear you're from Alternet. Have I argued with you before?

>>136907687
#triggered

>>136907550
>We have a right to a lawyer
No; no such right exists. At best, people who hold themselves bound by some dictate have expressed a belief that they are obligated to give legal defense to those they try to legally attack. That is not a right, that is - again at BEST - an expression of someone's belief in an obligation under certain circumstances.

>>136907550
>no right to shelter
>no right to internet
>no right to income
>no right to property
>no right to self-expression

Wow look at all the things that don’t exist in nature that we still think ought to be standard human rights!
Not only is that one of the worst logical fallacies but the fact that you apparently think that the height of human civilization was shitting in trees shows you must clearly have little mental faculties at your disposal

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>>136907941
That is the point I was alluding to.

>>136878786
Literal libertarianism is just basically autistic screeching of NEETs who think they are completely independent autonomous individuals that can exist as an island unto themselves. It's the ultimate selfish rejection of duty and responsibility and very very short sighted.

>>136880845

Remove the ability for healthcare providers to collect on debt or report against credit. The free market will eventually sort things out.

Are you a doctor or hospital and don't like the risk of not getting paid? then find another way to make money. I hear Walmart pays regularly...

>laissez-faire

>>136908444
nice quads sweetie

>>136908253
Damnit all, don't put words in my mouth. I never said the lack of these things are "The height of civilization". I just said that rights do not exist in nature.

They are given by political communities.

>>136908253
>that we still think
That you still think wrongly*.

>>136878786
>>136878786
>It's literally the same thing.
how are you so fucking stupid? it's literally not. particularly because your right to an attorney is not a "human right"

>>136878786
YOU STUPID GODAMN LYING SHILL MOTHER FUCKER
ITS A RIGHT TO COUNSEL
A LAYWER IS A BOUGHT OUT PAID AGENT OF THE VATICAN THAT GOES UNDERA BAR IN ENGLAND LONDON, FUCKING ENGLAND

HWO FUCKIGN STUPID ARE YOU

>>136907831
>#triggered

what a debate master.

>>136908597
>being this triggered
oh sweeite. keep your jock on.

>>136908692
oh sweetie. i don't debate john mccain supporters such as yourself

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>>136908597
>>136878786
>A LAWYER
Dont you mean the Court JESTER
Oh wait thats probabaly fake

sayig people have a right to a lawyer is like sayig FUCK YOU so OP is a shill LIAR

its counsel and i dont take your jew fucked up shit bitch i take how it was originally worded
WHY ORINGALLY WORDED CAUSE ALL OF YOU ALL ARE TOO STUPID T POINT THIS OUT TO FUCK FACE

AND LOOK UP WHAT A LAWYER IS
AND THE BAR
ITS IN LONDON, ENGLAND THATS THE BAR

>>136908767
I voted Hillary and wanted Bernie to win. But you know what they say about assuming.

>>136908990
>But you know what they say about assuming.
oh yeah. assume all niggers will try to rob you.

>>136878786
wow this is a stupid fucking argument op. the constitution gives you a right to legal defense in exchange for the government being able to try you in a court with your own tax dollars in the first place.
You don't even understand how the justice system works. The government mostly doesn't give a fuck what you do so long as you don't injure another citizen or their property. And they can't really convict you, satisfy justice unless you already feel guilty about what you did (you confess, or there's evidence that you tried to hide evidence of what you did so other people wouldn't find out) or if you insist that you are innocent then they try to prove to you in court that you are in fact guilty, meaning the prosecution argues why what you did was wrong, then has a whole jury of your peers agree that yeah what you did was wrong, you're guilty. It is all about the standards of your community, if you and your community think what you did is justified then you aren't guilty where you are tried, but its possible that if you did the exact same thing 50 miles north that community would have different standards and would find you guilty and you'd go to jail.
The government gives you legal representation and a chance to defend yourself because otherwise they'd never be able to prove your guilt to you, you'd just be like "I'm being oppressed by an evil government I ain't did nothing wrong!" and there's no point in trying to reform you if you don't believe you are guilty of anything. and if your community thinks you should be punished but you won't admit you did anything wrong then you simply cannot function in that community and would be a huge disruption until the members of the community eventually took matters into their own hands and punished you outside of the legal system.

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>>136880845
>Everyone is required to have health insurance
>Cost is determined by how likely one is to need money for healthcare
>everyone throws their money on this pile of money
>someone gets sick
>they pull from the pile of money
>some people take more than they give to the pile
>some take less than they give to the pile (the youth, usually)
>in this way, the youth subsidize everyone else's healthcare
We're in a communist system right now, we just like to pretend that it isn't.
>

>>136878786
There are no human rights. Its a scam.

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>>136879910
How does our dust taste, frog?

Naw -- lots missing it here.

it's really just saying "yo and u always can bring a friend or lawbro-smart dude cuz we know this shit ain't easy for most people to understand in 1790. Hell we just wrote this shit. Cuz we know like those historic times were peeps were 'intimidated' into saying "yes, I confess" to save their kin or other bros".

U have to realize there was a time we u weren't guaranteed the ability to have a smart bro next to u to say "don't answer, u don't have to answer".

Duh.
It doesn't say the Feds will have u a bro. That shit is for the states and the people (see IX and X).

-- make a new thread with a non-Reddit OP? This troll got enough attention already

>>136879588
the only thing these people need is some god damn willpower. tell yourself no you fat fucking tub of lard. PUT THE BIG MAC DOWN FAT ASS!

>>136878786
You only have a right to a lawyer in criminal cases you fucking retard. If it's a civil case you're on your own. The reason you have a right to a lawyer in criminal cases is because the state is the one laying charges against you and the state is responsible for the burden of your defence. If you have health issues totally independent of the state why would they be required to provide health care? Why don't you think before you come up with terrible middle school arguments?

>>136879681
im not paying for your lazy ass, die in a fire and go fuck yourself you worthless sack of shit. pay for your own health you parasite.

>>136878786
>It's a human right to be forced to sign up for yet another "insurance" monthly charge that doesn't insure jack shit
>Car, House, Life, and various other Layered over insurances now plus Health
You can't pull the wool over my eyes Mortensteinberg

>>136910697
I live in a very liberal part of CA and since 2010 I've been waiting for some fanatic NPR lib to scold me in the grocery line for buying beer, potatoe chips, and ice cream; because I thought they were obsessed with health choices and how the cost of health care is shared and blah blah

Best I've got is maybe a snide glance. I must be doing it wrong. Or are they just totally full of shit when not signalling?