Every time I see someone explaining why they dislike communism,

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>>135932591
Show them practical examples from various places and contexts.

If people understand something then it's easy for them to explain it so just ask them.

Basically the idea is that the people providing capital is not actually producing any value, but still gets most of the reward. So the idea is that the capitalist don't bring anything to the table except capital and that society would function much smoother without unproductive members like the capitalists exploiting the work of the proletariat who actually produce value.

The communist manifesto have a few arguments that show this and then conclude that the best society is a society where everyone produce value if they can and where everyone enjoys the fruits of their labor fully and not just partially by giving most of it to the bourgeoisie.

Its quite short actually, its also crap
They do it cause they are cheap

>>135932591
Because to articulate an anti-thesis you need to be familiar with the thesis in first place. This is literally philosophy 101, post-hegel edition.

>>135933193
Communists biggest enemy is actually the middle class, the little burgeoise, i-run-my-own-lil-business type

Its a movement of people who doesn't understand the value of administrative labour

>>135934010
Yo can actually see this in action by just looking at California. They're treating the Middle Class with MASSIVE contempt and are also using them to spread their communist thinking toward other states. It's fucking terrifying how many people don't see this at all!

>>135933888
You can be familiar with the concept of communism without reading the manifesto famalam.

It's pretty short so you should read it, also it's pretty shit. Das Kapital, now that's an impenetrable pile of ideology

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>>135932591
Its around 60 pages you illiterate cocksucker. How fucking pathetic are you you can't read 60 pages. Have fun at mcdonalds you illiterate human waste.

Also the manifesto gives a limited insight into communism, Capital is much more in depth in looking at the economics side.

>>135932591
Read it. It's a 2 days read although pretty shitty

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>>135932591
It's because they can't argue the system for themselves. It's the same reason they say shit like "it's inevitable" without any backing, they know that they can't argue for their system so they instead rely on this smug idea that they've already won the argument and the other person just needs to read more.

>>135934380
Economics side of communism:
Line up for bread.

>communist manifesto
>300 pages
it's seriously like what, 10 pages?

>>135932854
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQc5f2JYP-A

>>135933888
>literally philosophy
>shitty dialectical materialism
pick one

>>135934305
You`re right, but for the sake of others it can`t hurt anyone to argue in more informed and articulate manner particularly if you are trying to convince anyone.

>>135932591
"If you know your enemy, and you know yourself, you need not fear the result of a thousand battles."

I've read the Manifesto and Das Kapital. Labor theory of value is a shit.

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>>135934860
>it costs money to visit karl marx

>>135934818
Oh cool, another privileged American living in a capitalist country using goods provided by capitalism to make a video about communism neither him or his family ever experienced.

>>135932591
There's no secret truth in their garbage literature, but there's reason for their smugness, under certain conditions, their narrative is incredibly persuasive.

But again, some conditions need to be met in order for it to turn you into a commie:

1. You have to be somewhat demoralized and definitely nihilistic.
2. You have to be doubtful of your current life conditions.
3. You have to be doubtful of your future life conditions.
4. You need to feel resentment and jealousy towards others.
5. You need to be oversocialized.

If one of these conditions is met, you could hypothetically read the Manifesto and try to read Kapital without falling asleep, and actually turn commie.

I don't have any of these, btw, but I immediately understood what sort of people are drawn to this, simply by reading their literature.

>>135934991
Thesis and anti-thesis as theoretical concepts predate dialectical materialism and are Hegelian concepts.

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>>135935142

>>135935164
Most internet commies that I know of are autistic loners who just seem to resent their standing society, I don`t think that it has much grounds on envy or jealousy but more of alienation.

>>135935323
Nobody is forcing you to work.

If you were in a communist society you would be.

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>>135935181

>>135935491
>Nobody is forcing you to work.
Work is needed for survival though

>>135932591
half of Marx his work is basically him trying to solve the labour theory of value and him struggling with the transformation problem

he thought he could fix both or atleast move around them but the end he failed to do so

aside from that he had some important insides of capitalism which leads him to formulate some valid critiques

some of his work is also a sort of critical summary of political economy before him and during his time (he especially likes Ricardo's work)

basically I would say that you don't need his books to discuss communism as a system of economic organisation, it is also safe to say that most people who tell you to read Marx don't understand half of what he wrote (except maybe some of his strong one-liners)

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>>135935323
It IS hypocritical however to be a communist and not be self-employed or working for a coop or commune.

>>135934279
Spoken like a true, bitter flyover.

"I live in Kansas but let me tell you about how California is the worst."

-Small business owner in California.

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>>135935323
:^)
Communism has been tried and collapsed (by himself) everywhere around the world, I actually don't care either about death tolls, it just illustrates that an egalitarian system necessarily need to force the people to obey to be applied, therefore it concentrates an authoritarian power in the hands of a small elite which rapidly becomes gentrified while the average man starves. But communism is mostly a teenager thing living in a capitalist country by now, even if it's pretty much non-existent as commies are now promoting full degeneracy.

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>>135935142
Sale chien, c'est à cause des abrutis comme toi qu'on vit dans un pays de cucks

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>>135932591
>listen bud you need to read this book written by some random guy to prove that I am a retard that can't think for myself
>every communist ever

>>135935707
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5axVunzQSA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rh-4gsDjAKg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzzQCTOlhNk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbZXFjIzzzc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcebhfOhPMo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsE8nFX5xD8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5e86ijqsfwc

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>>135932591
Commies are pussies lol

>>135935643
It depends since just partaking in activism does not nervelessly help the cause but might even work against it. It would be much more better if communists in general just partook in lives of underground parties and such, rather than attempting to reform current state of affairs with on the ground building of dual power via communes and co-ops.

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>>135935707

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The communist believes in a false sense of evolution in which humanity would abandon religion and greed which is theoretically impossible due to the tragedy of the commons in which human nature is impossible to abandon. Furthermore a classless society is literally impossible due to once again human nature. All humans are greedy in one way or another. Communists are delusional youth or fucking retards.

>>135935929
Oh, cool. People should have fled to the East when the Berlin wall fell. They misunderstood the benefits of communism! Mass starving were necessary so a few people can live nicely.

>>135935882
>anglicisme
>cache son drapeau
bel appât, prends un (toi)

>>135932591
communism is like the string theory
looks and sounds nice in the books, but it's totally inapplicable in reality

>>135932591
The days of Communist are numbered.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h47q1dOGEoU

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>>135936072
>muh human nature

>>135935889
It is more like studying the concept of evolution to understand the bio-diversity and its functionality on this planet. You need to have firm bases to build your conceptual understanding form.

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>>135935998
>It would be much more better if communists in general just partook in lives of underground parties and such
I don't see how this would help at all, you'd be contributing to the economic power of capitalism while doing nothing but waiting for change to happen on its own.

>>135935635
um no sweetie it isnt, if you wanted to be a dumb nigger you could apply for welfare and just exist.

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>>135936145
>Mass starving were necessary so a few people can live nicely.
That's what capitalism is all about
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCkd6EA_B0U

>>135936193
It doesn't sound nice in the books, it's pure craziness and utopia. Also very anachronical by now indeed.

>>135936072
While evolutionary pshycology drives us to greed and religion, it is also true that very same nature dries us to cooperation and looking out for our organic communities that are part of ourselves and our lives. We are neither pure collectives nor individualists by nature.

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>>135936354
But that's parasitism, and we're against that

>>135935635
Where do you live? Most western countries have pretty robust welfare states, not enough for luxaries but certainly enough to live.

Where are all the literally starving to death Americans?

>>135936360
>third world is third world
>Africa is capitalist

Your baits are lowering in quality
Also why people didn't flee to the East when the Wall fell? Genuine question

>>135932591
AAAAAAAAAAAARGH!
Don't even get me started on those cock-suckers!

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>>135935323
>have the option to go to glorious socialist paradise Cuba, Venezuela or China
>don't
>have the option to live like a true commie: bare necessities only, and voluntarily share the rest with someone else
>nope
>have the option to not buy items from companies that exploit their workers, instead buying from coops (obviously at a higher price and with lower quality)
>nope, Iphone, Starbucks and Walmart nigga
>have the option to find other likeminded commies like you, pool up your cash, start a company and run it however you see fit (shorter hours, $15/h wage whatever)
>HAHAHA NO (or it crashes badly)
>do none of the tenets of TRUE COMMUNISM by yourself
>would vote for big gov to take other people's stuff away though :^)
>OH BUT THAT'S NOT TRUE COMMUNISM BECAUSE GOMMIENISM IS A STATELESS SOCIETY...
>rinse and repeat
Get a fucking job you hippie

>>135936240
These parties would eventually partake in the act of revolt, but I think that ideally it should only happen after the first general revolution takes place, Like during the Russian revolution or the Chinese revolution/warlord period.

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>>135935635
So work self employed or in a commune or coop then.

>>135935635
You mean I have to actually PROVE my worth to get something?
>entitled shit will be an entitled shit

>>135934010
>>135934279

The "middle class" as is used in common everyday American language (ie. meaning someone who isn't poor) is NOT what middle class means in marxism.

In marxism the working class is everyone who gets a wage (which in some cases might even be a rich CEO if the CEO does not own any part of the company)

Then we have the middle class who own their own means of production. (or the small bourgeoisie) this might be a lawyer who has his own lawyer firm and so on. The middle class might even be poorer than the average working class, but he owns the means of production and he produces himself. It has nothing to do with white collar jobs (which are working class by and large unless it's an architect with his own firm or something)

Then you have the capitalists, the bourgeoisie who do not produce, but exploit workers and pocket the fruits of their labor.

Sometimes these days there is a mix. There might be someone who has waged labor but who secretly outsource his own work to some cheap Indians and pocket the difference. They are both working class AND bourgeoisie at the same time. I don't think Marx or Engels even imagined that category.

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Have you read Das Kapital?

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>>135936615
>These parties would eventually partake in the act of revolt
But you're not doing anything to speed along this revolt, in fact you're delaying it by working in the same private businesses that everyone else is and thus giving them more profits.

>>135936145
Content petit ?

Tu seras le premier envoyé au goulag, que tu réalises ce que c'est quand le système t'imposer de travailler pour le compte d'un autre

Communists killed farmers. They killed the people who produced their food because they were jelly. And then they starved, because the proletariat didn't know how to fucking farm. Learning that was enough for me to know that commies are retarded. None of them stopped to ask themselves if maybe killing the person who supplied their whole city with produce and stealing their shit was a bad idea.

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>>135936603
>have the option to go to glorious socialist paradise Cuba, Venezuela or China
Cuba is under a blockade
Venezuela is not suffering from capitalism
http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/upfront/2017/06/don-blame-socialism-venezuela-woes-170617080851514.html
China stopped communist after Mao died

I also it's better to stay here

>>135936914
Alternatively
https://archive.is/tlOqc

>>135936907

What are you even refering at you dumb burger

>>135934334
>It's pretty short so you should read it, also it's pretty shit. Das Kapital, now that's an impenetrable pile of ideology

This post is true... Das Kapital have some huge flaws (for example Marx and Engels consider the middlemen as useless, but as we see from the Soviet union the middlemen created a black marked for goods that people needed, but that the state did not know people needed. Without the black market then the Soviet union would have collapsed in the 60s), but apart from that it is a very surprisingly enlightening analysis of capitalism. Even people who love capitalism will have trouble poking holes in it. Marx and Engel's solution to the flaws of capitalism is shit, but their analysis is quite good.

>>135936763
Attempts at reform can only parlong the capitalism and since there is no ethical consumption under capitalism this makes no difference. Attempts to force the revolution have historically failed miserably as history has shown(German revolution,Colombian and Philippine revolutions)

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>>135934380
Why? Anti-fascists are such scum that they think their women's studies degrees get them a £40,000 a year wage?
Fuck off back to Scrubway and make me a meatball marinara

>>135936837
Le retour du stalinisme est encore plus improbable que celui du fascisme j'en ai bien peur

Les nègres nous enculeront tous

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Turn it around on them.
>How can you claim to hate fascism when you haven't read Mein Kampf?
>How can you claim to hate capitalism when you haven't read The Wealth of Nations?

i'm one massive stride ahead of lefties: i've read capital vol. 1

>>135936364
>Also very anachronical by now indeed
it doesn't stop university professors from vomiting deconstructionism and shilling for an nonexistent equality.

but yes, Argentina and France are the only countries in the world that accept Freudism/psychoanalysis as a real thing. It has a lot to do with the widespread of marxism in the societies, and the censorship they impose once they get in power

>>135937156
>but yes, Argentina and France are the only countries in the world that accept Freudism/psychoanalysis as a real thing.
I thought we were alone, good to know
Feels bad to live in a time where cultural marxism has won.

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>>135936218
That's not what I meant.Reading is fine but don't try and use it to get out of an argument, which is what they do most of the time.

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>>135936977
The fact that you don't need to know about labor theory to know that commies are fucked because their braindead actions speak for themselves.

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>>135936603
>Get a fucking job you hippie

>>135937286
>inb4 no such thing as cultural marxism

>>135932854
This doesn't work.

They are completely Ok with killing people to get there way. They don't admit it out right but they are generally genocidal maniacs from my experience. Especially on the west coast.

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Let commies think what they want. I'm a small business owner and a decade from now I'm still gonna be a business owner while they'll be serving me my morning coffee for all that time. Why should you or I be worried about the delusional ramblings of manchildren who wouldn't last a week without their parents' bank accounts?

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>>135937048
It seems kind of lazy and hypocritical to me, you want revolution so that the working class is not exploited for their labor, yet when we point that you can form coops and communes to prevent exploitation, you say you don't want to do that so that the revolution will come sooner, even though the reason you want revolution is so that the exploitation will stop and the only reason the exploitation is happening is because you refuse to provide alternatives that would stop the exploitation in the hope of revolution so that you can stop the exploitation.

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>>135937132
This.
I have personally found the wealth of nations quite enlightening whenever Smith writes in defense of the protections for the poor and aiding them.

>>135935323
add pls variant with peasant and proletariat

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>>135936015
>No capitalist country in latin america
What

>>135937438
Good point. But more than deaths it shows the failure of all these regimes (only a few survived without liberalization)

>>135937414
kek

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>>135937412
But he's statistically probably right.

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>>135936015
Botswana, Chile, and Hong Kong are doing pretty good.

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>>135937574

>>135932591
>"Consider the words, not the actions"
Just ignore them. I haven't read the damn thing because I don't think It'll be worth it. I doubt Marx/Engels were good writers, and I'm certain any political theory written in the 19th century by fucking journalist nobodies has very little use today, If any

>>135936837
>mon mouvement de petites pédales de plus de 60 ans qui n'ont jamais touché une arme de leurs vies et qui représente moins de 0,1% de la population va t'envoyer au goulag

Je suis sûr qu'il doit se chier dessus.

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>>135935323

>>135933193
You are explaining one of the themes of Das Kapital. The communist manifesto is more like a modern political party-program. It speaks that the resources should be divided amongst the people according to the rule of "do what you can" (as in work as hard as you can), "get what you need". (so basically no rich people, onjly people getting their needs met).

Das Kapital is a book that has value. It gives a good understanding of the capitalist system, from the view of the worker. It does not say that everyone should be paid equal etc., it's specifically written in it that some people are smarter than others and will earn more from less work because of it.

The communist manifesto on the other hand is garbage.

>>135937700
I do have a job though

Also most people in the west who call themselves socialists are Berntards which are phonies

>>135937857
Attends, il faisait peut-être référence aux jeunes antifascistes encagoulés à moitié anorexiques qui fuient même à 10 contre 1 quand ils n'ont pas de cocktails molotov à jeter contre une police constamment docile car sommée de ne pas attaquer (et qui chouinent quand, une fois tous les cinq ans, l'un d'entre eux meurt accidentellement après avoir lancé des explosifs) - eux-mêmes accompagnés de leurs camarades transgenres pansexuels fluides libertaires vegans.

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>>135937802
>steep decline in average earnings
Well we already know that pic is full of shit

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>>135938066
What's your job and where do you work?

>>135937529
As someone who ascribes to accecolarist school of tought in this matter, I do genially believe that the best way forward is not to just wait around but actively attempt to worsen the current state of affairs by removing social safety net form society(all formats of welfare and current labor laws) and accelerating the revolutionary conditions.

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>>135937953
>from the view of the worker.
>Karl Marx

kek

>>135936914
https://www.quora.com/Is-it-true-that-Chinese-army-soldiers-swear-allegiance-to-the-Chinese-Communist-Party-and-not-to-the-nation

>>135937048
>there is no ethical consumption under capitalism

>The agreement of two mutually consenting parties triggers me because the wealth is not transferred to unskilled non contributors who are rightfully poor

Utilitarianism was a mistake

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>>135937802
>Muh evil pinochet and muh deaths
>Defends Fidel Castro
What

Also
>Allende is president from 1970 to 1973
>People have to do long lines to get bread
And
>In 1972 there was this horrible economic depression where there was no food at all
>People starve
>Pinochet comes in power
>Applies capitalism
>Now we have one of the best economies in south america

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EltrtkmD_Xs

Translation:
>"To me everyone is right-wing, the left-wing people do not exist. Do you know any leftist who fled to the East when the Berlin Wall collapsed?"

A French humorist talking to a communist MP, living her speechless. A classic

>>135938520
It actually does not, long as that agreement does not in any other context influence the society in some negative manner weakening the organic communities that they are part of.

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3 things every person on earth should be able to easily associate with communism and socialism are death, corruption, and non white countries voting for gibsmedats, and then starving to repay their laziness.

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>>135934380

>>135938765
Your problem is then with globalism and not with capitalism.

>>135938891
By their demand,utility and labor input(in material and labor).

>>135938276
At a bike repair shop, why?

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>>135939104
How does one translate labor input into wealth? How does one translate utility into wealth? These things are already handled naturally under capitalism, how would communism do it better?

>>135939067
They are essentially the same thing, particularly nowdays since capital has never been this international and all influencing form bodypolitic to everything else in society.

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>>135939183
Do you own the repair shop?

>>135932591

The funny thing is that gommunist manifesto is pretty much a street pamphlet. If they weren't trying so hard to be hip intellectuals they would ask if you've read Capital.

>>135937881
Can the messages in your post be found around the internet? I would like to know if there's more of them.

>>135932591
It was thrown together by Engels and Marx on request in a short amount of time and was never supposed to be as influential as it was.

>>135939281
No

>>135936489
>commies against being parasites
ironic considering most modern day commies dont contribute to society in any way

>>135939237
They are only the same thing if you apply the most narrow definition of capitalism. Was mercantilism not capitalism? It certainly was not socialism.

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>>135936360
Many African countries are ex-socialist shithooes. Somalia os a good example of this.

I'm sure your dumbfuck leftypol videos are more credible than actual scholars and historians though.

>>135937953
>You are explaining one of the themes of Das Kapital. The communist manifesto is more like a modern political party-program.


Sure, but it explains the reasoning in the communist manifesto. That is what I meant when I pointed out that the view is that capitalists have no "production value".

>Das Kapital is a book that has value. It gives a good understanding of the capitalist system, from the view of the worker. It does not say that everyone should be paid equal etc., it's specifically written in it that some people are smarter than others and will earn more from less work because of it.

Yes, Das Kapital is more of an analysis of Capitalism and does not provide much of any solutions (although he does list a few possible solutions to several problems. Like in Volume 3 where 'universal basic income' is one solution to automation and so on, but the point of the book is as an analysis and not a political program.) I just pointed out themes from das kapital to explain why the capitalist class is not considered to have a place in a communist utopia. When they say "do what you can" it excludes anything the capitalist provides.

Of course in reality the communist manifesto fails because if you see the Soviet unions the state takes the place of the capitalist and the state exploits the workers, they had no solution that went around it. They still had all the flaws of capitalism, but lost good things about capitalism like an effective marked distribution and so on. It had all the flaws AND shit distribution of products, food and services. It's a shit solution.

There are CAPITALIST solutions to how work is organized that results in a solution much closer to the communist ideal. For example worker cooperatives, like https://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kantega which functions great in a capitalist system, but would function horribly in a communist system despite actually being closer to the capitalist ideals.

>>135932854
when will venezuela be added to this list?

>>135939214
Labor input can be calculated into some contemporary fixed sum such as labor vouchers.
Utility on other hand will be divided on multitude of factors, such function to how many,necessity and production costs.

>>135939428
Most modern day "commies" know nothing about what Marx and Lenin actually supported

>>135939484
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8Zx5tjCVqg

>>135939481
No, mercantile capitalism was largely feudal by its nature thanks to guild systems providing assurances to the merchants, not to mention the social classes and how production was controlled along the labor forces by guild basis.

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i would make a joke about needing to be intelligent to truly discover the hidden effects of communism, but, really, then we're back at the same question.

>>135936489
Communists also killed faggots

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>>135939410
So you are willingly working for the bourgeois and bringing them profits then?

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I've actually read some of the materials this one references and can verify that it's at least approximately true.

>>135939104
But how would communists know the demand? In a capitalist system there is the price. Communists did not know the demand which is why black markets turned up because the Soviet union produced TONS of vodka, way more than everyone could drink if they tried. But did not produce enough warm clothes and warm clothes was equally distributed because the demand was unknown.

>and labor input(in material and labor).

You also have economies of scale, soviet made vodka cheaper because they produced so much of it. But it was unnecessary to produce so much, but how can the government know? The only reliable measurement was in the black market which was not available to the kremlin (because if they were found then they were arrested)

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>>135939553
We have to wait and see how many people end up dying before the socialist government is replaced.

>>135939560
How do you calculate utility in a world where one man's trash is another man's treasure?

>>135935641
His criticism of capitalism is basically just a criticism of early industrialization.

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>>135939715
>benin
>prosperous

Good fucking joke.

>hdi of 0.485
>$802 gdp per capita

MEANWHILE the most capitalist country in Africa (Botswana) which has the freest market in the region.

>hdi of 0.698
>$7140 gdp per capita

Your whole ideology is such a fucking failure. No wonder it constant collapses.

>>135932591

Just fucking read it. 300 pages is not that long. It doesn't have anything more enlightening than you already know, but you'll be able to make an informed argument and shut down the idiots even better.

Reading your opponent's literature is often more important than reading your own.

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>>135939816
Maybe someday, my reason for supporting Marxism isn't really to benefit myself, but for the people of the third world

>>135939214
And how would communism handle it better? by the factor that there would be no waste of resoures as they currently are in market based usage of goods and services that are not nessearly based on actual needs. No capital accumilation would mean that all the excess output would not flow into the few hands that would own the means of production but the collective good of society in format of common funds.


(I will have to take a brake form this thread, I really need to eat something and nearest kebab place is like 8 minutes walk form here, I shall be back)

>>135937802
I'll call Pinochet a criminal as long as communists call Stalin, Castro, Che, Mao, etc criminals.

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Daily reminder that if the Jews were virtuous, this state of affairs WOULD NOT ALARM PEOPLE.
Antisemitism may express itself as hatred of Jews as a people, but it is in fact rooted in hatred of Jews as individually bad actors.

>>135940153
Even Marx thought communism could only be achieved in a rich industrial economy.

>>135940288
But they weren't

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHGRuKqvU7o

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-OnFpWSv_g

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imjHoobpA8U

>>135936489
thats a quote from st peter you fucking theives

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>>135940162
Who decides what's a "need" and what's a "want". Do you decide to give every person the bare minimum of shelter and sustenance and then move on to providing luxury from there?

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It is not because people do not care that they oppose communism. It is because they do care. They care very much. The only way to advocate communism is to have a complete failure of empathy.

>>135932591
Funny thing is, they'll call you a fascist without having read the Fascist manifesto.

>>135934279
California is not communist by any definition of the word in any world or in any way. It's in fact a major centre of capitalism.

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>>135940153
But capitalism almost always benefits these people of the 3rd world, look at Chile, Botswana, or Hong Kong, all nations with far more economic freedom than their surrounding neighbors, and all far more wealthy and developed as a result. I mean, heck, if you're so passionate about helping these 3rd world people why not go over there and start a commune or a coop, depriving the evil capitalists of their workers?

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>>135940705
That's why communists favor nihilistic art, too. At least before they've brought about their totalitarian shitholes. Then suddenly the most important thing is to deny, deny, deny, and they start favoring artwork made of brute lies.

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>>135940728
They'll also call you a capitalist without having ever read Adam Smith.

>>135940127
http://www.telesurtv.net/english/news/Chinas-GDP-Would-Grow-Faster-Under-Mao-Era-Policies-Study-20170714-0034.html

>>135940153
You realize since 1994 after the ANC took over and ended the apartheid over 74k white people (with a large chunk of that being farmers) have been genocided

>>135940841
There are many third world countries suffering from capitalism like Ethiopia, India, and Colombia

>>135932591
ITT: Fashy fuckups proudly yell into the void that they're not only dumb, but also lazy.
Congrats. Enjoy licking the boot that kicks you.

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Un horizonte de esperanza
Nace un septiembre inolvidado
nos hizo dueños de un legado
que prometimos defender

Como una voz que igual al viento
va creciendo el SI de las conciencias
hay un país, país ganador (¡Si!)
en democracia y libertad

El pueblo y usted (Pinochet)
Harán posible la esperanza (¡Si!)
Hoy que la patria entera avanza por usted
Con nuestra fe (Pinochet)
El dio la patria y su bandera (¡Si!)
Hoy la victoria tiene nombre
¡Presidente Pinochet! (¡Si!)

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>>135940476

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>>135934380

Get the helicopters ready

>>135940985
both apartheid and post apartheid South Africa suck

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>>135932591
Does someone has books or serious information about the Juche from North-Korea ?

>>135935635
Really? Then why are you not working? Why are so many people sitting on their ass getting money from the government, especially blacks?

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>>135941268

>>135941423
Dear Reader

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>>135940924
Shit tell the economists and leaders in China that a study by American Marxist (((economists))) said that your economy would grow fasted under Mao's policies!

Tell me why the economy stagnated to shit under Mao again until the capitalist reforms.

>>135934380
You're a communist faggot. Anything you say is already invalid by default. Also, Trump won. Cry about it, pussy.

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>>135941102
>Ethiopia, India, and Colombia
All nations that suffer from an abundance of government overregulation. But like I said, you can always form a coop or commune over there, freeing them from the evils of the exploitive corporations.

>>135940153
Thirdworldfag here, no thank you, take your communism somewhere else

>>135936360
With out Capitalism you will still have unclean water, hunger, curable diseases that wont be cured and malaria. As always you have to pull shit from your fat asshole.

>>135941488
Meanwhile in modern day China

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yF8jUDzz5bE

All communists will burn in hell if there is one.

>>135941301
Would you rather drink piss or eat shit?
Before the apartheid people were able to actually eat because the fucking monkeys were contained so they couldn't murder the people who produced the food.

>>135941457

?

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>>135936360
I stubbed my toe this morning. Capitalism could have prevented this.

>>135940153
why do you care about 3rd worlders

>>135941455
How are stalin deniers are batshit than holocaust deniers

>>135941696
>Before the apartheid ended

I meant

>>135941455
The count has raised because the USSR got bigger during those times and thus the total population too. Again you're pulling shit from your ass, he did kill millions.

>>135940903
Hayek is the best

>>135941601
Can Chile even be considered 3rd world at this point? I mean, you have a certain based dictator to thank for that, but you guys seem to be doing pretty well, all things considered.

>>135941697
It's a book. Biographical account of Kim Jong Un and North Korea.

>>135941117
>leaf

ill bite the hand that takes, thanks

>>135941102
>ethiopia

Was ruled by communists for multiple decades. It's again an ex-socialist shithole.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derg

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Democratic_Republic_of_Ethiopia

>india

India was very socialist until 1990. If anything liberalization improved the conditions in the country greatly since then, see gdp per capita here. >>135941488


>colombia

Doing far better than its socialist neighbor. Why do you not bring up Chile which had the best living standards in all of LA?

On

>>135941631
You still don't disprove what anon has posted. You're jumping towards other shit, as always.

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>>135941601
>>135941865

>>135941725
A destabilized third world is what leads to mass immigration to the first world

>>135941875
I am sorry buddy, but do you have a sauce for it ? Canno't find it

>>135941455
actually sweetiepie, no, post USSR Russia had at least 40 million people less than the communist government reported

>>135932591
Leftism is a cover for psychopathy.

By saying this, they get you to shut up and come across as smug as knowledgeable.

They have achieved what they wanted.

>>135941488

> capitalist reforms.

Market reforms, not capitalist. Top 5 companies in China are all state owned and are responsible for over $1 trillion USD in economic activity every year.

Country is definitively socialist, even if it's not particularly Marxist-socialist anymore.

>>135941102
>there are many third world countries suffering from capitalism
>lists socialist shitholes
Good job earning those shekels. Have a (you) to show your masters.

>>135941631
Meanwhile capitalism in China made its citozens much richer, got hundreds of millions of Chinese out of poverty. Absolute poverty rates were slashed from 41% under Mao to fucking 5%.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_economic_reform#Economic_performance_since_reform

>>135941972
A third world is always unstable, instead of fixing their shit they have to shit up other countries with their shit. Mass immigration happens because of lazy fucks that funny leech of country that do well.

Liberals aren't mentally stable. They need to be sterilized and/or put down.

>>135941972
no, open borders leads to mass immigration. thats why trump is closing our borders

>>135942171
fucking leech*

>>135935323
fuck off commie. feudalism is legit

>>135932854
None of these were communist

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>>135942148
Meanwhile in NK

>>135936442
Communism is extremely collectivist and capitalism is extremely individualist.

>>135942086
https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2014-10-14/private-companies-are-driving-china-s-growth

Private corporations and property exist heavily in China now. It's the definition of state capitalism like Russia. There's nothing socialist about it anymore.

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>>135942349

>>135942385
Fascism is nature

>>135942313
>muh not real communism
Venezuela isnt a thing either is it?

>>135942429
Why not show the ghetto's of North Korea? People are starving in those.

>>135936015
Maybe, just maybe, the colectivist mindset of native and mixed breed it's what makes them FEEL they can get everything from nothing.

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>>135941921
There's a crystal clear correlation between economic freedom and economic prosperity. Of course when you tell the commies this they say "well the capitalists WANT those nations to be socialistic so that they can have cheap labor".

>>135942044
Literally the second result. https://www.amazon.com/Dear-Reader-Unauthorized-Autobiography-Jong/dp/1495283259 via DuckDuckGo for Android

>>135942399
>Private corporations and property exist heavily in China now

None of what you just said goes against anything I've said, other than an argument over whether or not it is capitalist.

Having markets to allocate labour, resources and capital doesn't make it capitalist. The state still owns massive swathes of the economy and like I said, top 5 companies are state owned and have economic activity of a medium sized country in their own right. So it's a Socialist mixed-economy.

>>135942429
This is fucking bait. Communists are legitimately THIS retarded.

>>135940005
Materialistic needs but this means that things such as art,music etc. cannot be caculated therefor their production should be outside of the closed system that labor vouchers would create(same goes for other luxuries, production of these would have to be outside of controlled production and on the need basis of the communes and would require creation of secondary currency)
>>135940582
Yes, and people would be able to consume and produce these luxuries on secondary market with its own currency and systems.

>>135942429
Since when the fuck is there democracy in NK it is a literal dynasty

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>>135942429
>>135942727

>buddy

Long live to our Great Leader !

>>135934818
He lists the Genocide of native Americans as 100 million. If your going to post a video post one that is not so easily pointed out as BS

I wonder why North Korea has to send out their people to those evil capitalistic countries when claiming that North Korea can live completely on its own.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awQDLoOnkdI

>>135942704
In a socialist economy private corporations and property do not exist in any significant or meaningful sense. There was already an analysis done on this, China is considered to be state capitalist by the vast majority of economists.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_capitalism#People.27s_Republic_of_China

>Analysis of the "Chinese model" by the economists Julan Du and Chenggang Xu finds that the contemporary economic system of the People's Republic of China represents a state capitalist system as opposed to a market socialist system. The reason for this categorization is the existence offinancial marketsin the Chinese economic system, which are absent in the market socialist literature and in the classic models of market socialism; and that state profits are retained by enterprises rather than being equitably distributed among the population in abasic income/social dividendor similar scheme, which are major features in the market socialist literature. They conclude that China is neither a form of market socialism nor a stable form of capitalism.[69]

China has the second-most billionaires in the world, you see upper-class citizens drive sports cars in Beijing. It's hardly socialist any more, most of the GDP growth comes from the private sector. This is a fact.

The ultimate point is that China did not improve until it adopted capitalist reforms and legalized private businesses and property again.

>>135932591
I've read it (it is freely available in audiobook form online, about 3 hours) - Marx's generalizations about History are abhorrent, and his work suffers greatly for it - the Communist Manifesto is clear in its purpose - to serve as recruitment propaganda, meant to be read aloud to the illiterate and intoxicated.

Find a Communist (or, well, anyone) who has read Smith's Wealth of Nations in its entirety...better arguments (from a structural standpoint at the minimum), but encyclopedia-long.

>>135941962
>>135941865
For the USA, we're still south america and south america means third world

>>135942716
>labor vouchers
Which is just another from of currency.

I g2g, good night guys

>>135943256
>the most influential philosopher since Kant is shit, says a anonymous NEET online

>>135943221
And the biggest companies in Russia are state owned as well. It's still a (state) capitalist one.

At best you could say they are mixed-economies, but every country is mixed economy to some degree. Even ultra-capitalist countries like Switzerland.

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>>135943454
You're actually ahead of us in economic freedom (you even privatized your water you glorious bastards) and with socialist sentiments increasing in the USA I wouldn't be surprised if you overtake us in a decade or two.

>>135934818
If that is the nonsense the commies watch on youtube, no wonder they are retarded.

>>135943483
Indeed, but the difference is in that it cant be accumulated nor exploited by others and can be only used by the person who it was issued to.

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>>135943882
>it cant be accumulated
So you put an expiration date on the money so that they can't save up?

I WILL FUCKING KILL ALL COMMIES

>>135943577
>Marx is the most influential philosopher since Kant, according to a anonymous NEET online

>>135935323
>I don't quite like being worked into an early grave for no return except extreme bare necessities
>YEAH BUT YOU MIGHT GET FOOD TOMORROW CHECK MATE LIBERAL

>>135937529
Estonia is great. Of all the baltic states, which one has been most capitalist? Estonia. Of all the baltic states, which one has been wealthiest? Estonia. Best quality of life comes from best sanity in politics.

>>135942516
I completely agree

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I have the suspicion that commies get paid to shill on websites like these. Much like the JIDF.

>>135943882

>Indeed, but the difference is in that it cant be accumulated nor exploited by others and can be only used by the person who it was issued to.
>Indeed, but the difference is in that it cant be accumulated nor exploited
>and can be only used by the person who it was issued to.

>what is making counterfeit currency
>what is faking dates and names on said currency
>what is using said fake currency
>what is having people using fake currency to buy stuff for you
Yeah, that's utopia isn't gonna last long buddy.

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>>135943964
Yes, this is partly done for the reason that persons usage of them can be followed and consumption can be measured for future usage for example in planning for production quotas.

Are you polfriends aware that a large number of socialist and communist regimes (many of them democratically elected) have failed because the USA has actively destroyed them?

The "workers should own the means of production" thing is the biggest bullshit I've ever heard in my life.
Imagine you want to build a house. You ask around and talk to some of your friends and it turns out several guys have some spare time and happen to be skilled at masonry. You agree that you'll pay the boys 20 of some imaginary currency each. You then take the concrete mixer and some old tools your father used 20 years ago and give it to them so they can get to work.
Month later the workers demand that you give them their pay, concrete mixer, tools they used and the house they bulit. After all, you did nothing and you don't even know how to use the tools so you should not get any of that.

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>>135944302
Show your flag.

>>135944215
There would be democratic checks and balances for issuing of the labor vouches and those who would violate the laws would be punished like in any other system. We do not tolerate counterfeiting of currency in current society same goes for the glorious communism.

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>>135944286
But they can still buy goods, which can be saved up, and later sold for profit.

>>135944102
I checked it out, and it has indeed been one of the most consistent Baltic nations in retaining economic freedom. I don't like their atheism, but the prosperity capitalism has brought them cannot be denied.

>>135943221

>In a socialist economy private corporations and property do not exist in any significant or meaningful sense.

This is a preconception leftover from the cold war period. That the only form of Socialism is Marxist socialism and the only form of Market economics is capitalism. This is demonstrably false. National Socialist Germany had regulated free markets and private property to allocate most of the countries economic activity (with a few notable exceptions like the armaments industry and the great works programs to boost depression-Germany's economic growth artificially). When the National Socialists came to power, they went and privatized the previously nationalized Deutsche Reichsbahn (railway system). And yet the name of the party in question is the National SOCIALIST German Workers Party. The social welfare and economic focus of the National Socialist party program was definitively anti-capitalist in nature. Considering this and the fact that they call themselves socialists clearly makes them socialists, even if they are vehemently opposed to Marxist-socialism/s.

The idea that Socialism cannot be separated from Marxism is an intellectual failure leftover from the cold war period.

The high level of state intervention in the economy, ownership of key strategic areas of the economy by the state means they are not be specifically "capitalist" in nature, as many of these state-run businesses are woefully inefficient and many do not generate profits, but are there to provide a service or goods that act contrary to profit-motive. Capitalism (private ownership of economic activity for the main or sole purpose of generating profits from transactions) is irreconcilable with this approach.

"Intellectuals" in this sphere have to adhere to basic logical conclusions that they appear not to be doing.

>>135944286
>Yes, this is partly done for the reason that persons usage of them can be followed and consumption can be measured for future usage for example in planning for production quotas.

Which already happens with the current currencies. Following sales and money is really easy, you're gonna set in place the exact same thing you have now but this time you will accept it because your GLORIOUS LEADER said is was good.

>>135944013
>the man who first described capitalism, who theorized a new socio-economic system that influenced thousands of new regimes is not influential

Care to tell me which philosopher is more influential?

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>>135942429
meanwhile in reality

>>135936360
You know, these problems can't be attributed to capitalism since these countries are not capitalist andthem being nigger-tier niggers unable to create functioning communities is not the problem of capitalism.

Not to mention that socialist countries don't help these people either, so did socialism kill them afterall?

>>135935142
It's a fuckin Brit. The rotting teeth leech into their brain.

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>>135944525
This shit again.

>Considering this and the fact that they call themselves socialists clearly makes them socialists, even if they are vehemently opposed to Marxist-socialism/s.
A man calling himself a woman does not make him a woman simply because he says he is a woman.

>>135932591
Ask if they've read Mein Kampf. If not, how do they know they hate Nazis? Do they watch Fox news? No? How do they know they dislike it so.

Or just call them stupid and move on with life, it really isn't worth the effort.

>>135944504
Sure, but it would effect their next vouchers if they did not utilize the goods in proper manner.
>>135944569
Not really, since capital has a tendency to be more inefficient(see for example rate of profit) and wasteful. It can also stagnate, unlike the labor vouchers.

>>135944817
>capital has a tendency to be more inefficient
Gee golly that sounds like an empirical claim falsified by huge amounts of data already present in the thread. What's the point of making empirical claims if your mind is too closed to test them?

>>135944660
>not real capitalism
>capitalism dindu nuffin, its the black man!!!

>Not to mention that socialist countries don't help these people either
Cuba is one of the best places to live in the caribeans

>>135944587
Nietzsche, Kierkegaard, Schopenhauer, most of the big names from the 19/20th century.
When it comes to economics I dare say that Adam Smith completely btfod Marx even before Marx was born.

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>>135944817
>but it would effect their next vouchers if they did not utilize the goods in proper manner
But the vouchers are based on the labor that the person puts in, are they not? How is it justified to lower their voucher pay because you do not like what they are buying with them? Wouldn't you be exploiting them by paying them a lower voucher pay than what their labor is worth?

>>135944778

...Are you intentionally not reading what I posted or are you shitposting? Everything I have said is consistent with his quote.

>>135941865
Thanks to our female commie president, we're going back to 3rd world.

>>135945046
>Nietzsche, Kierkegaard, Schopenhauer
>more influential then Marx

lol no. Not even close.

> I dare say that Adam Smith completely btfod Marx even before Marx was born.
xD

>>135945177
vieja conchetumare

>>135944817
>Sure, but it would effect their next vouchers if they did not utilize the goods in proper manner.
That's why people hide and trade you idiot. That's means you'll have to keep on checking people if they use their goods as intended, much like in prison.

>since capital has a tendency to be more inefficient
Wrong. Plenty of anons proved you wrong.

>It can also stagnate, unlike the labor vouchers.
Any form of currency, vouchers including can stagnate. If your GLORIOUS LEADERS stop giving them out or printing them all together you will have stagnation.

>>135944969
>Cuba is one of the best places to live in the caribeans
That isn't saying much.

>>135945128
I'm tired anon, I'll reread it.

>>135944817
Sure that perfectly steered economy would be more efficient than free market. The issue with perfectly steered economy is the same as with all perfect things - it doesn't exist.

>>135944940
You can see this by simply looking the production cycle under capitalist markets, planned obsolescence etc.
>>135945048
We would not be oppressing them, since their excess would contribute to the common funds and indirectly improve their welfare.

>>135945285
You never heard of Kierkegaard or Schopenhauer. Stop pretending.

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>>135945177
Don't worry, la (((Alegría))) ya viene

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>>135945412
>since their excess would contribute to the common funds and indirectly improve their welfare
But their welfare would be improved far less than if they had been given the money they earned directly since the wealth they generated would be spread among billions of people, and thus they would not be receiving the full value of their labor, and you would be exploiting them.

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If you cannot support your platform without deferring your audience to something else then you're not worth listening to.
People on my own side included.

If you simply use ideas from someone's writings to help expound upon your ideals then it's a different story.

>>135945285
Oh hey it's National View.
High time for the communists to abandon the thread, this shill is a huge IAMSILLY argument.

>>135945582
You voted Pinera? :^)

>>135945354
In some aspects yes, in other not so much. For example development of hardware would slow down as the consumption cycles would be longer.
Regardless I do hold a firm belief that these things can be improved upon and changed if need be.

>>135945412
>planned obsolescence etc.
Which too can and will happen with your voucher system.

>We would not be oppressing them,
>vouchers will be valid for a limited time
>vouchers are bound to a name
>vouchers can only be spend on shit that the GLORIOUS LEADERS tell it can be spend on
>people will get their shit kicked in if they'd stock up in secret and trade in secret
>people can do shit with their goods they worked for
>not opressing

>>135945461
I've never heard of the first, i will admit.

And that is one of the main reasons i first claimed Marx is one of the most influential.

>>135945653
Excess that would be taken form them could be directly aimed towards their personal welfare but just at later date.

>>135944488
>Check'd and Heil'd.

>>135945808
How would planned obsolescence exist if the profit motive was taken out of the equation?

Do you even think about what you are writing?

>>135944488
Damn, what a post. That pic related was fantastic!

>>135945177
>>135945299
Y ambos sacamos dígitos...

>>135945808
>cant do shit

>>135945876
Alright, but just because you haven't heard of someone doesn't mean he is or isn't influential. Most people in my country will have no idea who Marx is but almost everyone knows Plato or Nietzsche. I think this applies world wide too.

>>135945808
They are free to produce things on their free time and trade between each other long as this wealth is not deprived form the commons and funds that are set to build whole of collective society. They are free to build their own systems long as it does not interfere with basic provision of society

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>>135945932
But unless you're going to only spend the excess on them and no one else then they aren't getting the full value of their labor. And if you are going to spend the excess only on them, why not just hand them their labor vouchers and let them spend them, why go full nanny state on them and hold out their rightfully earned wealth?

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>>135945761
Yes

>>135945932
That is the most Jewish sentence I've ever read

we need a pinochet

>>135944525
>natsoc germany

Natsoc Germany wasn't socialist. It was as you descrived it a mixed economy, Hitler privatized many sectors while nationalizing others.

https://www.jstor.org/stable/27771569

China is state capitalism. State capitalism is an economic system where certain key sectors are under government control while the rest is privatized. It isn't market socialist because market socialism is about worker co-operatives operating in a market (see Yugoslavia). China is pretty much the prima definition of a state capitalist economy.

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>>135946189
>we can't trust people to spend their own wealth so we're gonna spend it for them
I fucking hate communists so much

>>135946154
es prueba de la resurreción de pinochet

>>135944969
Again, how do you blame capitalism for that? How is Africa remotely capitalistic? How do you blame capitalism for dindus living in non capitalistic countries being unable to create flourishing, no, even stable communities?

You can't blame an economic system which doesn't exist in nigger countries for the failure of nigger countries.

>>135945461
Why was Kierkegaard an autistic cuck?
>has a crush on woman who he sees on coffee house
>writes tons of letters to her(never sends them) creates fanfic on romance that will never happen
>in the end is cucked as he learns that the woman has already married

>>135946163
>They are free to produce things on their free time and trade between each other long as this wealth is not deprived form the commons and funds that are set to build whole of collective society.
Which will defeat the whole purpose of everything you're advocating for.

>They are free to build their own systems long as it does not interfere with basic provision of society
Yes and your GLORIOUS LEADERS will have a firm hold on certain provisions that others wont be allowed to stock on or ever could produce on their own. Meaning your GLORIOUS LEADERS will have a firm control on you. Making you dig an even deeper hole. And nice of you to completely ignore all the other errors me and other anons have pointed out.

>>135939657
True. So what's actually wrong with real commies who think everyone should be hardworking for the greater glory of their nation? Communism means every one is working together for each other, it's very honourable and nationalistic

Commies aren't like Bernie Sanders who want welfare and stupid shit like, or like the antifa scum who want open boarders and endorse Lgbtqp degeneracy

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>>135946429
Actually if you learn how to doublespeak well enough you get to be a party member instead of a gulag farmer so bin that honesty m8

>>135946167
You sometimes need a stick to put them under social control. Without punishment no society could function.

>>135946155
>Alright, but just because you haven't heard of someone doesn't mean he is or isn't influential.
Well, i know that this isn't very correct, but popularity is also a measure of the influence of someone.

>Most people in my country will have no idea who Marx is but almost everyone knows Plato or Nietzsche. I think this applies world wide too.
What country are you on? I would say the contrary is correct. If you asked arond on the street no one would know who Nietzsche is, but if you asked who Marx was the results would be more satisfactory.

I'm not arguing that Marx was more influential then the old Greeks.

>>135944525
>That the only form of Socialism is Marxist socialism
And how it is by definition.

>>135935635
feel free to go and live alone in the forest

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>>135946699
So exploitation is okay when you do it? The state is okay when you control it?

>>135946173
redpill me on him

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>>135946699
Fascist

>>135946573
>Which will defeat the whole purpose of everything you're advocating for.

No, since people would be provided the basic necessities creating larger base of social security.

There would be no glorious leaders other than the commune itself, as its leadership would be democratically put in place.

>>135935323
fuck off commie

>>135934380
>dismissing your McComrades in their class struggle against the burgergeois

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>>135945767
Materials are tools not goals. Your utopia relies upon the unending gathering of material wealth and thus fails by all accounts to uphold a strong and prosperous people and instead creates a pyramid scheme of sorts much like capitalistic finance system or a more modern feudal domain.

>>135946410
>Natsoc wasn't socialist
I can smell the /leftypol/ residue on you.
Cancer causing material that.
NSDAP Germany was by no means non-socialist. Socialism and Marxian Socialism are two separate things and you have been lied to from early on by political preachers about the subject.
A limited market and limited personal property do not expunge socialism, as socialism is neither merely economic nor is it a simple matter involving "the state doing things".
Socialism is not transitory, it simply must be or it isn't the upholstery of social wealth and industry which Germany had attained and even the Soviet Union had not. Socialism requires an odd horizontal separation of functions, whereas the Soviets had a vertical one. Etc etc.

Anyway even by the diseased fake definition you have for capitalism the bourgeois did not own anything nor truly existed in NSDAP Germany. So wouldn't even by your definition Germany have been something else?

>>135946509
>Again, how do you blame capitalism for that?
>economic phenomena happens under capitalism
>capitalism dindu nuffin

This is just one way to look at it without thinking.

>How is Africa remotely capitalistic?

>private property
check
>profit motive
check
>wage labour
check
>prices decided by markets
check

What else do you need?

>>135946516
Hitler did this also, kek

>>135946823
It is not exploitation if your excess value is not taken away form you on permanent basis.
It is a quasi-state, yes but it would be controlled by the people(after extensive social engineering).

>>135946823
>>135946909

So i see you are against the justice system and prisons.

>>135946716

The word and idea of "socialism" predates the writings and relevent activity of Marx and Engels by several decades. Marxist-socialism (Marxism) is just their particular interpretation of the idea of socialism. And since they didn't create the term, they don't have the monopoly on defining it.

>>135946410

>Natsoc Germany wasn't socialist.

Yes, it was. It wasn't Socialism of a Marxist variation, but if you read the previous paragraph: that is also irrelevant.

>It was as you descrived it a mixed economy, Hitler privatized many sectors while nationalizing others.

This is not inconsistent with other forms of Socialist thought.

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>>135947052
>>135947139
Nat just GTFO you fail troll. I'd like to debate the communists not have you trolling the shit out of them and their opposition please.

>>135936666
Nice try Satan.
>do not produce
This meme again. They have administrative labor. Someone has to run the business.
So who's it gonna be?
>bureaucrat
Doesn't work. The Soviet Union and every other communist state tried it.
>democratically elected
The most charismatic person gets elected, not the best one for the job. They don't have to bear the risk if the business fails and have no experience in running this particular business.
If it's direct democracy it becomes even more of a shitshow.
>regulate the bourgeoisie
A bigger business is harder to manage than a smaller business. If the wage of the manager is limited, the growth of the business is too, because there's no incentive to grow leading to bad/risky investments.

>>135936015
>japan
>south korea
>saudi arabia
>singapore
>hong kong
>taiwan
>israel
>chile
>panama
>south africa
>rhodesia

>>135946714
Well I barely expect anything from Portugal to begin with.

>>135946699
>its ok when we do it the post
Alright buddy, every time.

>>135946921
>No, since people would be provided the basic necessities creating larger base of social security.
Which wont happen, not every basic necessity is easy to produce at all.

>>135946516
>longing for a married woman but not knowing she was married is being a cuck now
Really? Max Stirner was a cuckold in every sense of the word and even thought it was perfectly fine.

>>135947052
Which is a lie spun by kikes, good job.

>>135947097
>(after extensive social engineering)
>its ok if i do it
Which is oppression in and of itself

>>135947023
>you can smell the leftypol on me

You're retarded. I shit on socialism. The biggest companies in Nazi Germany were privately owned. The private sector played a huge part in armaments. Nazi Germany wasn't socialist retard. Nationalizing certain key sectors does not make you socialist. Almost every country has at least one nationalized company under government control. Nazi Germany had lower taxes on the rich than the fucking US for fucks sake. Hitler didn't confiscate the property and capital of the rich as long as they were German citizens who weren't Jews.

>>135947139
Yes, of course - I'm no fascist

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>>135947139
I'm against hypocrisy

>>135947097
>It is not exploitation if your excess value is not taken away form you on permanent basis
Oh, I'm sure if your capitalist boss suddenly held out pay on you but promised to give you the rest "in the future, for your own welfare" you would totally not consider that exploitation at all. For fuck's sake, you want an authoritarian state to take away all excess from the people in the hope that they won't spend their money irresponsibly because you can't trust them to act like adults. Fucking ridiculous, at least we see your true colors. You somehow manage to be more totalitarian than the fascists.