Cenk argues that U.S. is #37 in world health-care Ben says that

Yeah I noticed that too.
Rest Ben was winning.

>>135621493
Watched the whole thing.

Cenk held his own, I expected Shapiro would BTFO him easily but it turned out pretty equal and boring in the end.

Now watching Ana Kasparian vs Ann Coulter.

>>135621493
Omg I remember taht. he did a strawman or whatever. Yeah the muslim guy totally won I guess.

#37 in healthcare is disingenuous. America scores poorly due to lack of accessibility, but in treatment options and outcomes we are first class.

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>taking manlets seriously

I seriously hope you guys don't do this

>>135621493
>gives counter points
guis its obviosssly not tru he no win

There wasn't a single time in the whole debate where Shapiro "BTFO" him like he did that transgender chick, it's all clickbait.

>>135621804
>lack of accessibility
But that was exactly Cenk's point

>>135621493
What does it mean when your healthcare is bad but most of the people with cancer survive?

>>135621893
Poor people don't deserve good things. If they did they wouldn't be poor.

>>135621806

wew lad.

We give Benji so much shit for being a manlet that I never stop to think if this Turkroach was one too...

>>135621893

I didn't actually watch the debate; I don't care about Semitic manlets.

>>135621893
No, Cenks "point" was that the US is #37 in healthcare without clarifying what he meant so that retards like you would think "Durr nuboor thurdy sefen? That bad!". Number 37 by what metric? "In healthcare" is not a metric and as was typical of most of his "arguments" Cenk stayed away from specifics.

>>135621493
>lowest HIV rate
>highest cancer survival

seriously what the fuck else do you want? UH BAD HEALTHCARE cause the doctors can't treat every dipshit that comes in with the sniffles? shove it up your ass retard

>>135621848
but he did, both by twisting the prostitute argument and by calling him out on Sanders ass licking

>>135622324
>so that retards like you
Cute since both Shapiro and me as the rest of the audience picked up what he means.
Nice way to insult yourself just to appear superior.

Rankings in healthcare mean measuring how much the medical care provides to further the health of the population. Ben is right that US health care has the highest standart. The reason that it ranks so low is that the high standart care is withheld from such a large group of the population.

>>135621493
I was legit thinking the same thing during the debate. But ben won.. jews always win in the end

>>135621493
Of course a jew like Shapiro would lie through his teeth.

>>135621493
Where can i watch the debate?

>>135621493
kill yourself shill rat

>>135621493
Cenk didn't say "Higher taxes don't necessarily mean a weaker economy", he was arguing that higher taxes don't slow growth by stating that the US had record growth at a time when taxes were their highest. He completely ignored other factors (that Ben pointed out and he continued to ignore, like every point Ben made and the roach had no response to) and went with "These two things happenrd at the same time therefore one had no negative impact on the other." Retardation at its finest and retards like you eat it up because you're too stupid to understand logic.

>>135622688
>Shapiro and me as the rest of the audience picked up what he means.
Really? You know what they all thought even though not a single one gave you any such idication?

Like every point he tried to make, Cenk kept repeating a vague line without any specificsbecause it sounds good so that
>retards like you
would mindlessly cheer. It's typical of the left and Cenk specifically in this debate.
>Durr you say you believe in small government but you want to tell a woman what to do with her uterus!!!
I bet you were cheering with the audience on that one, too.

>>135622688

And this is disingenuous because pretty much any American can get health insurance if they wish. Low income people and retirees can get Medicaid/Medicare from the government. Others can either get insurance from their employer (the majority), or through Obamacare. People can also pay out of pocket, which is often quite cheap if they negotiate with a provider. Failing that, you can always go to an emergency room and not pay, which is what illegals do all over the damn place.

There really isn't any excuse not to get health care in the US if you need it. We do have a fair number of uninsured people, though the metric is usually inflated with people who didn't have health care for a couple weeks while they were changing jobs. The rest is mostly young people who don't have huge health risks, and decide not to spend the money - which is their right as far as I'm concerned.

>>135621493
#1 in health care quality
#6 000 000 in the UN ranking for diversity quota fullfillment and cultural enrichment

AMERICA BLOWN THE FUCK OUT BY LE BASED GENOCIDE DENYING TURK

>>135623126
Nice switching the subject.
Now I don't know what all the audience members think but Ben picked it up and you're the one complaining about it so here we are.

>I bet you were cheering with the audience on that one, too
Kekekek. You must be quite the man if you can't admit that Shapiro brought an unrelated number into it without your entire worldview breaking apart.

>>135623213
Yeah but they can get worse health care than the european counterparts for a higher amount of money. That's why US ranks 37th.

>The rest is mostly young people who don't have huge health risks, and decide not to spend the money - which is their right as far as I'm concerned
I agree.

>>135621493

>U.S. is number 37

>Literally every wealth person travels there for health care

>Nearly all medical breakthroughs come from the U.S.

Explain please.

>>135623676
They rank highest in quality and not highest in accessibility

>>135622688
And all your second paragraph does is highlight just what a dishonest tactic Cenk is using. Even you, who proclaim to know just what he meant, can't even get all the details right and then go on to agree that Shapiro point out a way that US healthcare is ranked first. When Cenk says "US healthcare is number 37 in the world" he is obfuscating a lot of details, as proven by the fact that Shapiro could make the unqualified statement "The US is number 1 in healthcare" and be just as correct by your standard and own admission.
The fact that you don't see how Cenks use of vague language is targeted to morons is how I know you are one of the people it targets.

>>135621893

He didn't refute Ben's point and neither does being number 37 due to access.

Ben's point, stated at the outset, is that you get to pick two of the three;

>Affordability
>Universiality
>Quality

The U.S. has shit Universiality AND affordability (Ben's argument is that is because they don't have a truly free market - but I don't personally believe that), but they indisputably have the highest quality.

The U.S. health care system is similar to much the rest of their society, which is very different from other developed nations - They have a very dog eat dog set up. If you're wealthy, you're getting the best of the best. If you're poor, you're kind of fucked.

>>135621804
>US citizens can notnhave treatment without ruining their lifes forever.

?

>>135623776

Precisely.

I mean, I'm going to sound like a complete cunt here - But I'm sort of glad the U.S. has the system they do, even if it fucks a lot of poor people. The costs help pay for R&D which eventually flow down to my nation with affordable health care.

>>135623824

It's not really dishonest. They're talking across each other. Cenk is talking, ultimately, about access and Ben is talking, ultimately, about quality. Ben wants to say you simply can't have quality with any kind of easy access, and Cenk is saying you can have top quality + access for all.

>>135623824
>When Cenk says "US healthcare is number 37 in the world" he is obfuscating a lot of details, as proven by the fact that Shapiro could make the unqualified statement "The US is number 1 in healthcare" and be just as correct by your standard and own admission.
One was in general and one was to a specific field i.e. cancer surcical

>The fact that you don't see how Cenks use of vague language is targeted to morons is how I know you are one of the people it targets
No the measure how a countries healthcare improves the overall health of the population is a common measure. That you never heard of it before is not my fault.

>targeted to morons is how I know you are one of the people it targets
Well what that makes that you who didn't understand it

>>135623831

Not really.

Like a lot of things in America the U.S. places A LOT of personal responsibility on their citizens.

If you go to University and get a 150,000 dollar loan to study Speech and Drama, they don't have government media jobs for you to fail into.

You're expected to use your common sense and choose a profitable subject. When you finish school you're expected to buy health insurance when you're young and healthy. And so on.

It's part of what makes their society tough, but also successful.

>>135623829
Yeah I agree.

>lack of accessibility
>But that was exactly Cenk's point
>The U.S. has shit Universiality AND affordability
So you agree with me?

>>135621493
Its not a strawmam, it's simply pointing out the flaws in the thinking.

If the economy was booming in the 50s and it was simply because of high taxes, then by increasing it to the extreme, you would therefore see the economy booming. Right? By pointing this out, he force Cenk to admit that the high tax rate was not the only factor in why the economy was booming.

The healthcare comment was disingenuous from Cenk, and his comment on "number 1 in cancer survival", was to point out a hole in Cenks argument. If USA is number 37, how can they be number 1 in cancer survival?

It wasn't about instigating a "gotcha" comment, it was about getting Cenk to admit that his argument is flawed.

>>135623602
>switch the subject
What? I said Cenk used vague undetailed arguments. You tried to counter that by claiming to know what Ben and the whole audience thought.

>unrelated number
It's not unrelated. It perfectly demonstrates how the entirely unqualified "Number 37" argument is by providing a (qualified) number 1. But if all people hear is "37th in the world" without any context or detail they're inclined to just think "Hurr 37 bad" like you did. If they're given any detail they might actually think or even disagree, so Cenk opted to just repeat "37,37,37!!!"

>>135624276

Agree with you on what?

He didn't actually refute Ben's point - You can't have "quality" plus universialtiy and affordability.

You can have "good enough" and "affordable enough" or whatever mixture you want.

Like I said - They're both talking across each other.

>Cenk: We have bad accessibility!

>Ben: We have good quality!

I mean, they're two different things.

>>135623829
You don't even have to be poor to get overwhelmed by medical costs in the US.

>>135624303

The problem is that neither one wants to openly state what they know to be true (well Ben does to a degree), basically that;

>Quality will drop, but accessibility will increase

>Quality will remain, but some poor cunts are gonna die

They both have completely valid points and completely valid criticisms.

>>135621493
Shapiro was making the cancer survival comment as part of a larger argument about rationing. He's not saying America has/had the best healthcare overall.

>>135624099
>But I'm sort of glad the U.S. has the system they do, even if it fucks a lot of poor people. The costs help pay for R&D which eventually flow down to my nation with affordable health care.
Yeah it sounds like we're on the same page.
I'm not against a free market system. And the argument would then be that a free market system will overtime grant more accessibility simply to get more customers. Ben could also have pointed out that life saving measures are taken without regard to ensurance to let Cenks "to save lives" argument run into the ground. He just got a bit caught up here because he used the cancer argument so often on his podcast

The argument started with OP and me pointing out Ben moved goalposts with bringing the cancerrate and then some partisan all or nothing newfriend from youknowwhere got buttflustered and started ranting about how I cheer for theyoungturks because of that

>>135621493
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsMEeujDv5Q
The audience for that debate

>>135621493
all I'm saying is name one country with better medical care. It's like ranking the Warriors in the NBA #16 just because not everyone can afford to attend the games..

>>135624331
>What? I said Cenk used vague undetailed arguments. You tried to counter that by claiming to know what Ben and the whole audience thought
No I said the healthcare ranking is a common measure which is why Ben didn't object to it's use.

>It's not unrelated. It perfectly demonstrates how the entirely unqualified "Number 37" argument is by providing a (qualified) number 1.
If you misunderstood Ben's argument that again is on you not anybody else.

>>135624212
Which is why you can tell the iq of this nation is slipping because these dumb faggots can't think for themselves, and want to blame their problem on the race that settled this great nation

>>135624386

Poor OR unprepared. Like I said - They have a large onus on personal responsibility. I have U.S. family, and the same way your parents might help you save up for your first car, they were helping set up their kids up to purchase affordable health insurance.

If you plan ahead and are sensible, you won't be overwhelmed (barring bad luck).

That's just the way their country is, and it's got it's advantages and it has it's huge downsides too.

They have this in all aspects of their culture, from firearms ownership to speech laws. You're free to make valid and worthy criticisms of ideologies that may threaten your well being - You're also free to go and picket and a dead soldiers funeral.

Likewise you can whip out your handgun and shoot dead a wild negro attacker - but it's a lot easier for an autist cunt to nick his mums rifle and shoot up a school.

>>135624487

I don't think he was necessarily moving goalposts, so much as saying that, yeah, certain aspects are terrible, but the trade off is that other aspects are exceptional.

I'm not even in favor personally of what Ben advocates in my own country, though I completely see the reason why it's "good".

>>135624596

I mean, whites are just as responsible for this as anyone else - you can come and visit Europe or Ausfailia, and you'll find legions of white bois who are obsessed with the government teat.

>>135624155
>One was in general and one was to a specific
Exactly. One was vague and had no specifics. Cenk didn't bother to mention in any way where 37 comes from or how it's measured because that would invlove getting into specifics that are a lot harder to argue than "37 bad!"

>That you never heard of it before is not my fault.
No but the facts that you assumed I haven't and are completely missing the point that he's being intentionally vague are your fault.

>>135621493
Yes, higher taxes do mean a weaker economy and you can figure this out a priori, as Ben was demonstrating. Economics is not empirical, guiz.

>>135623831
>ruining thier lives forever
That's not really how it works, you seek to be getting your info from Michael Moore. America has plenty of ways to get out of debt. Not to mention most poor people just waltz into the hospital for free drugs and give fake names anyways.

>>135621493
Taking an argument to the extreme is often a good way of discrediting it. Strawmen aren't always bad. Most of the time they are just logical.
>If I make more money I can afford more things
Always true
>Higher taxes makes the economy boom
It's an argument so stupid it deserves a strawman to discredit it. Why the fuck would this be the case? Because it happened before? Well, that was because the county was 90% white. It's like when people talk about socialism in scandinavia and how it worked there so it should work anywhere. Scandinavian people are the best people in the world. You can impliment any system here and it would work as long as we are only Scandinavians. Too bad most of us don't know this and are hell bent on commiting mass suicide by having our women work instead of having babies.

Ben really let his Israeli flag fly on the money on politics section.

Why shouldn't the Jew be able to fund their preferred candidates and create independent ads in favor of positions that advantage them to an infinite degree? What could go wrong???

>>135621493
Go back to /mu/ you colossal cocksucking tripfag.

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>>135621493
So what are you arguing you anti American kike? That access to healthcare is weak? That cancer survival isn't there? What? Oh wait it another 1 post by this kike threads.

>>135624565
>Cute since both Shapiro and me as the rest of the audience picked up what he means.
Your words, shit-for-brains.
>If you misunderstood Ben's argument that again is on you not anybody else.
Ironic considering you completely ignored the actual point. No argument?

Who the fuck cares about a subhuman roach and some manlet kike?

>>135625029
You're bitching over the fact that two political scientists discussed a widely agreed upon measure of global healthcare rankings literally provided by the fucking UN, and hasn't changed substantially in 17 years.

Ben didn't contest it because he knew exactly where it came from. Anyone who had done even a slight amount of cursory research on the topic would recognize it. It is not the speaker's fucking fault that you are not educated enough to understand him.

You're asking people with graduate degrees to tone it down to a level a dumb frogposter can understand. Kill yourself.

>>135624099
God damned leech. Your stupid socialistic health care countries wouldn't have quality universal care without the US pitching in. Europe and Anglican countries need to desocialize their countries' medicine so they can finance R&D as well, and not leave that burden solely on the US.

>>135621998
I am poor and I deserve your boipussy.

>>135623829
(((Ben))) is wrong. He is a stupid, evil, parasitical Jew.

Australia's health system is the best in the world. Accessibility and better quality than the US. Literally no down sides.

>>135625822
There's never been anyone more clearly controlled opposition than Ben Shapiro.

>>135625857
He mentioned libertarian values, yet Cenk pointed out his neocon tendencies when asked about supporting Iraq war.

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>>135621493


Ben reminds me of the typical rich kid who sat in the front row in classes, always commenting on shit, with his pseudo-witty right wing straw men that he got from his rich daddy.
Personally I don't know why this guy is considered a serious intellectual, his cocky high pitched voice, like his briefs were crushing his balls, is thoroughly annoying, and his smug grin even makes hem the perfect punching bag.

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Cenk destroyed Shapiro, it was obvious it was always going to happen to me. Shapiro is a nerdy beta and Cenk is large, booming former jock.

>>135621493
>Implying Chunk actually made any arguments.
(((Shapiro))) obliterated Chunk at every turn.

>>135625857
Yep. A truly evil, subversive kike.

>>135621804
>we are first class

Deliberately confusing choice of words to make it sound like you are actually first, "first class" is meaningless.

>>135621493
>There are other examples of disgusting strawman arguments by Ben during this debate, like when Cenk said "Higher taxes don't essentially mean weaker economy" and Ben responded with "So why wouldn't raise the taxes to 100%?"

I think you missed the fact that Ben simply asked the question and multiple times asked Cenk to answer it and Cenk completely dodged it and went on some retarded small government vs big government rant

>>135621493
>cenk
>arguments
lmao. Turk thought he was on his show half the time.

>shills went from "Cenk wins!" to "Well, they both held their own"
The whole debate is now on youtube, retards. Cenk was spilling sphagetti all over the place while trying to avoid Shapiro's points.
>that silence when Cenk was trying to get USA chants going again.

>>135622324
uhmm, actually sweetie, there's this beautiful thing now called GOOGLE, maybe you should just LOOK IT UP

>>135621493
Niggers and spics are disproportionately responsible for that #37

>>135624383
>He didn't actually refute Ben's point - You can't have "quality" plus universialtiy and affordability.

You really have drunk the Jew kool-aid, haven't you mate?

Get the fuck out of my country. I'm serious. Go fuck right off to Somalia or the US or some other shit hole. We have no use for capitalist Jew loving cucks like you herre.

>>135621806
>>135622028
turks are fucking small dude, you never knew that?

>>135621493
>There are other examples of disgusting strawman arguments by Ben during this debate, like when Cenk said "Higher taxes don't essentially mean weaker economy" and Ben responded with "So why wouldn't raise the taxes to 100%?"

How is that a straw-man argument?

He is asking a question of principle. Cenk claimed that raising taxes improves the economy, Ben asked what the limit could be.

Then Cenk backpeddled on his 92% remark and lost his words. The crowd noticed the 1-2 second silence and boo-ed.

>>135623477
>LE BASED GENOCIDE DENYING TURK
Explain this. Did the Turk cause an oy vey I'm unaware of?

>>135625490
we did that years ago and now we've been the number one of Europe for years

for some reason no one has caught on yet though, it's retarded that this debate still exists

>>135626373
do you know where the term "Young Turks" comes from?

>>135626179
Would you respond to a pointless strawman like that? The question is just ridiculous on its face.

You didn't even get 100% tax rates in the USSR. Ben was flailing at that point.

>>135626478
read >>135626363

cenk was a fucking mess and if you think otherwise you're clearly biased and it doesn't matter what i post here it won't change your mind anyway

>>135621768
Have fun watching Ana use the literally can't even argument

>>135621493
>Cenk argues that U.S. is #37 in world health-care

Arbitrary ranking based on the amount of socialized health care.

>Ben says that "But U.S. is #1 in Cancer Survival"

Actual statistic based on the result of health care.

>>135626476
Not an argument.

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>>135622512
How about stabilized pricing for procedures and medicine, instead of running it like a racket? There's no reason for costs to be arbitrarily set at absurd extortionist levels in the US compared to the rest of the western world. Anyone who doesn't understand that lobbying is the reason politicians are paralyzed on using a common sense approach to normalizing healthcare costs through short term price fixing is an unwitting shill for moneyed interests, after having been bombarded with right-wing messaging about mmuh job creators and mmuhh gubmint killing industry durr regulations bad

Why even bother arguing this point in this kewlservative tweenager echo chamber

chunky yogurt is almost as pathetic as his mindless acolytes

>>135626424
Yeah but you still have regulated competition. Not good in the long term.

>>135626730
we can do better and our capitalistic parties are trying to improve it, and yet we're still number one of the entire fucking continent

i mean, that's pretty telling

>>135626519
If you have to fish for a specific figure as a "gotcha," you're not exactly winning.

Obviously raising taxes doesn't improve the economy, but careful application of funds raised by taxation might. If you have more to spend, you may get more done. Maybe.

Obviously if the government then turns around and puts the money into defense you might not get as much out of it as only one sector gets the boost as opposed to the overall boon you may receive from infrastructure spending.

It was an incomplete statement from Cenk at best, but a childish attempt to discredit the opponent with an absurd question from Ben.

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Chunky Yogurt could defend the proposition that 2+2=5 for 5 hours straight 'OF COOOOURRSE 2+2=5' 'right so you try to add 2 and 2 and you get 4, bad day for you' 'well you see republicans try to get you with this trickle down notion that's why they think 2+2=5'
'shut up audience stop booing me why isn't this as easy to get my way here as it is on my show'

>>135626478
Of course you didn't even get 100% rate in the USSR because high tax rates destroy the economy.

You're arguing against Cenk at this point and you don't even realise it.

It was the "why not 100%" question that made Cenk lose it.

>>135626652
I read the normal text in Ben's voice lul

>>135626805
True point. Hope you put the rest of Europe and the Clinton/Sanders kids to shame.

>>135626904
i hope so too, but we need to get rid of non western immigrants, these fuckers are eating away at our welfare budget

Both numbers are relevant. Cenk prioritizes total coverage while Ben points to the quality of the care that those that can afford it receive.

>>135626975
Yeah, makes me sad that civilized society and culture is becoming brown-washed with a religion of hate, and that all your classical art is being vandalized by shitskins.

>>135626868
I'm not on Cenk's side here, but all Ben accomplishes with that question is to demonstrate the virtue of a progressive income tax scheme.

>caring about a jew and a roach

why even come to pol if you're just gonna be a bluepilled normfag?

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>>135627173
>get out of my safespace
>don't disagree with me and the closest thing I have to friends

>>135625954
Accurate

>>135621493
>>taking manlets seriously
>
>I seriously hope you guys don't do this
I don't, but the creature in your pic isn't a manlet, it's a niglet.

>>135625490

You're going to pay for it ANYWAY, so why should we bother?

>>135625822

Our quality is vastly beneath the U.S.

>>135621493
>Cenk argues that U.S. is #37 in world health-care
b-but our 2000 billionaires get the best healthcare in the world so that's irrelevant!

t.americuck

>>135627411
>Our quality is vastly beneath the U.S.

Incorrect. I know for a fact that Australian care is vastly superior to the US in the vast majority of cases. I know that Australians with diseases like rheumatoid arthritis and multiple sclerosis are treated with much more aggressive and effective therapy than in the US, for example.

>>135627411
Because then there's actually a free market contribution from the globe keeping costs down in all places, including the US, and this leads to more natural accessibility.

>>135627167
The accomplishment here is showcasing that leftists don't understand economics.

It's the same argument as telling leftists to raise the minimum wage to 1000$/h.

If they admit it raises unemployment/inflation, you then can argue about real economics and prices determined by the market.

If they lose their words and shy away from answering (like Cenk did) you win the debate.

Also, that attempt at the end to rile up the crowd by chanting USA and having noone answering was just embarassing.

>>135627418
The survival rates extend to middle class who are insured too. It's legitimate to question the wisdom of reducing quality of care just to insure the poor.

What's a good link to watch the debate?

I tried shapiro cenk debate on Youtube, but the results were shitty quality with watermarks everywhere.

>>135627316
Disagree with what? That they're a jew and a roach that neither hold opinions that /pol/ does and thus /pol/ has no stake in it.
Nobody cares, take it up with Reddit.

>>135627672
>NOBODY CARES ABOUT THIS GUYS!
>Ignores the >dozen threads that have been made about this topic since the debate
You're right anon, we should be discussing how great things would be if Hitler won for the billionth time.

>>135627637
Why reduce the quality? Richfags will still be able to use their money to buy superior treatment (as is the case in other countries with universal healthcare).

>>135627948
Rich fags won't be able to spend a billion dollars to extend their life by an extra 30 minutes because they'll be taxed to pay for the healthcare of poor people. That's why quality will decrease.

>>135627948
Yet after Obama care, premiums went up and coverage went down universally for anyone willing to pay top price for their coverage. Only paying out of pocket would give them the highest quality, except they also would be taxed for opting out of insurance.

>>135626373
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_Genocide

>>135627672
that must be why the debate thread yester went through like 20 threads and 1000 posts a minute

more like no one gives a shit about the whining of you retarded stormfags

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Shlomo Urkel was the winner, goyim!

Any other position is a defacto denial of the Armenian holocaust!

>>135623829
Rich vs poor dichotomy
Just like literally everything else in any metric of society
The reality is healthcare hasn't been affordable for 50 years
Just like education is not affordable anymore
Providing it too everyone through forced taxation will not do anything to fix the affordability problems

>>135627672
dis

>>135621893
ACA as made healthcare less accessible to people who pay for it.

With my premium and deductable it's roughly 1/3rd of my salary I have to pay out before my (((insurance))) pays one penny..

So I just pay my premium mandated I pay and don't go to the doctor.

>>135626669
Apparently you don't know either.

>not many people cant get it, but those who do receive excellent care

Sounds wonderful.

I fucked up as an adolescent therefore as an adult I can't get a good job.

PROVIDE ME HEALTH INSURANCE, GOVERNMENT, SO I DONT DIE!!! MY LIFE IS IN YOUR HANDS!!!

>>135632880

>your right to live should depend on how much money you've made

>>135634000
>the amount of help you receive from society is equal to the amount of value you've offered it

omgosh so unfair

>>135634000
>right to live
>"Stop right there citizen"
>"How much money do you have?"
>"That's not enough. Bullet to the brain for you"

>>135621769
WE'RE AGAINST MUSLIMS YOU DUMBASS! WE TALK ABOUT THAT ALL THE TIME!!1(One)

>>135621493
>doesn't know what a strawman is

>>135627672

>neither holds the opinion that /pol/ does

Gas yourself you sheep faggot. Use your fucking brain and don't blindly follow everything some shitposter on this board tells you.

>>135623829
people vote with their feet anyways,
ever notice how people come to the US to get good medical service? it's because we have the best

>>135627625
>The accomplishment here is showcasing that leftists don't understand economics.

I'd wager you couldnt pass macro 101 if you had 2 years to try.

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>>135625998
Wait - did they fist-fight or have an oral debate? I'm confused now...

>>135621493
>Cenk argues that U.S. is #37 in world health-care
>Ben says that "But U.S. is #1 in Cancer Survival"
>This is a disgusting strawman argument by Ben Shapiro and anyone who defends it is a retard who does not even care about the actual arguments that are being made.

It's not a strawman when Cancer is basically tied with Heart Disease for #1 killer. Around 40% of people will have cancer sometime in their life.

>>135621688
Ben is a real Jew, unlike the (((globalists))) and (((media))). Remember Revelations: "those who call themselves Jews".

Remember there's a major divide in the "Jews": Those who remain faithful and observant to the Torah, and those who have "reformed" into atheists, and likely worship the old gods like Moloch.

>>135637563
The real Jews still worship the same God as Christians: the God of Abraham, Isaac, & Jacob.

The only discrepancy is who the Messiah is.

>>135637642
Also Ben's childhood Rabbi, Daniel Lapin, supported Trump since the primaries.

Know that Rabbis are like blackbelts. Having a blackbelt, or calling yourself a rabbi means nothing. It all depends on who your teacher was and whether that teacher gave you that title.

>>135621493
>trusting healthcare rankings

You realize they reward socialized healthcare right? US is responsible 99% of medical R&D that the rest of the world gets to benefit from. We all know who's on top.

>>135621493
It was unfortunate that Cenk didn't just reverse his statement.

>If you think lower taxes are good for the country why not put the corporate tax down to 0%?

>>135621493
All I saw in this debate was Kuck Ogre screaming liberal talking points that had vaguely to do with any articulate point Shapiro was expounding on. It was clear Kuck Ogre couldn't even follow the points Shapiro was making past the first 2 sentences, which his only line of defense was screaming out liberal gimmedat applauses from "war is bad" "rich people have lots of money and are bad" "roads are good" "rich people are mean" "college is a right"

ps

USA!!
USA!!
USA!!
USA!!!!!

It was embarrassing, Shapiro roundly got way more applause, the only applause Kuck Ogre was getting was from negroid chimpettes in the audience, and on top of that Kuck Ogre kept insulting the audience like constantly showing his insanely bloated ego and self perception.

PS the reason why healthcare is fucked in the US

1. Hospitals get to act like a monopoly and are just as greedy and profit driven if not more so than companies like Exxon or whatever boogey man corporation you want to pick.
This is something republicans can't seem to admit, that health care is not a free market like buying groceries because you usually have one or two health care providers in your region.
The excuses hospitals make of 1. malpractice and 2. picking up the costs of people that don't pay are just excuses, and its been shown that these two things combined contribute less than 1% of operating costs for hospitals. Healthcare charges the insane amounts because it can, this is mixed in with the sickening self congratulatory perceptions healthcare people have about the role they play because they are "helping people" ...very bad combination, you can see the effects of this in things like the military and education.
2. Government regulations in healthcare have made the hospitals incredibly inefficient (something that healthcare admin bureaucracy loves because it provides them with a paycheck) which bumps up costs. My mom was a nurse for a long time, she said 20 years ago she had 1 manager, 1 secretary and the part of her dept had 16 beds. Now she has 8 managers, 4 secretaries, a whole mess of useless support people, and then unit functions much poorer and they only have 10 beds now. She has to go through 4 people and a giant mess of computer bullshit to administer a single tylenol.

>>135639107
He was basically doing Stephen Crowder's impression of himself and you could tell he was absolutely buttflustered when Shapiro called him out on giving money to Boinie and then excoriating conservatives for donating to campaigns.

>>135623831
Hospitals already legally can't refuse to treat an emergency. There are no debtors prisons and bankruptcy only stays on record for 7 years. People need to stop acting like we just leave people to die.

>>135621493
I would support medicare for all
With the private sector still allowed to be run
But not in america, too many fat people and inmigrants with access to welfare and medicare

cenk conflates the health of people with the healthcare industry. a total strawman and dishonesty.

>>135640087
Yeah but for other shit that isn't the case
Like if you have cancer and no way to pay for it, you can go the the ER when you are about to die and they'll stick you in a bed until you croak a couple days later but for actual treatment we basically just leave people to die
Theres not really much of a solution, you can't just treat people out of thin air

shitty situation all around

liberals think money grows on trees but its also shitty to leave people to die like a dog in the gutter


this is why we should be fascist

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>>135637642
>there are no good jews.
They only subvert and destroy.

>>135640087
This

>>135640545

not everyone can be treated. it's not possible. not everyone deserves to be treated. not everyone should be treated.

you want to fix healthcare? mandatory physical training from kindergarten to 12th grade, as 50% of the school curriculum. meaning in an 8 hour day, 4 hours of hard conditioning from the age of 5 to 18, on which you are graded.

by the time every citizen turned 18, they'd be at the peak of human physical potential. THEN we could afford to just make healthcare free, because there would only be a fraction of the illness that there is now.

but you know what, people don't want that. so you know what else? not everyone gets medical treatment.

tough. shit.

>>135640661
Is that true though? Maybe. Maybe not. It's hard to tell.

>>135622717
GOOGLE IT

>>135623829

Programs and regulations artificially jacked up the price on health care by effectively mandating demand for it.

A Nationalized health care system is a regulatory fix for a regulatory problem. Learn to distinguish the shadow from that which casts it.

>>135622717
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2Bn6zux1zQ

>>135621493
S onto your grave because you died of aids

>>135624474
except for the that that Ben literally made that exact argument.

>you have 3 properties of healthcare, affordability, quality, and availability, but you can only have 2 of the 3
>Cenk: HURRRR WRONG JUST GIVE EVERYONE MEDICARE YOU CAN HAVE ALL 3 DERP

>>135624481
also about experimental treatment, which you can get in the US but not socialized medicine countries.

>>135621806
Lmao, what a roachlet.
If Ben is 5'8, then Chunk should be 5'4!
Holy kek.

>>135625954
>faggot
>acting like his opinions matter

that's why you're poor and have AIDS
Kill yourself and spare us of your shittalking, you envious pathetic subhuman

>>135640892
I agree something like the Hitler Youth would greatly reduce costs

Seeing how much is wasted on fat alcoholic grease eating fucks

If everyone was required to run 30 minutes a day and was only permitted an certain caloric limit per day state health care run in a fascist system would be the best course

>>135642005
Most of it is used on old people

>>135641362
The US has none at the moment. You can have availability and affordability with a NHS like system and then if you have the money just buy private healthcare...

is this thread some attempt for cenk and his gay cousin/nephew to redeem the amount of cum they chugged this weekend?

>>135622512
Its true, free health care sucks. If I see the need I can goto the dr t I get my feelings checked. Yet if something is actually severely wrong I probably will die waiting for treatment.

>>135642125
>The US has none at the moment.

yeah, that's why were trying to get rid of Obamacare...

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>>135642005

imagine what it'd do for mental health, too. probably four out of five guys that can't get laid COULD get laid if they were shredded, and four out of five mentall ill people are guys that went crazy from being lonely and rejected by females.

our birth rate would increase because everyone would be sexy.

imagine how it'd change our perception in the eyes of the world: 'literally every adult american has over a decade of boxing and grappling and muay thai training, and is shredded as fuck.' the other nations would bow to us.

We wouldn't just save money on medical care and mental health, we'd save it on the military too, since basically every adult would be fit and ready to be called up to service. thus, we could maintain a smaller core of professional soldiers who maintain the military as the small problem solving force it is now, and maintain it's ability to transform into a full fledged conventional war machine.

being physical strong makes you more intelligent and energetic as well. so we could have vast amounts of tanks and fighters and technology in storage, and it wouldn't take long at all to utilize every single one of them in the event of mobilization.

>>135623829
We don't have a free market in healthcare. When the government essentially controls the entire market and 25% of the government GDP goes into healthcare, we don't have a free market. The freest market healthcare in the world is Singapore (which is why nobody puts it into their studies promoting socialized healthcare; Singapore is the most efficient system by a massive margin and showing that would discredit socialized healthcare).

Ben admitted defeat and got buttfucked by Cenk the moment he started defending (((Donations))) as a form of "Free Speech".
>Corporations donating billions to politicians and outright bribing them for larger profits is the exact same thing as investment on a company that happens to talk about politics
Cenk cleaned the floor with that geek.

>>135621493
>This is a disgusting strawman
I don't think you know what a strawman is. That is a perfectly suitable rebuttal. By what standards is cenk rating healthcare systems?

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>>135640933
The blood tells all.

37th?
If the stats remove murders and vehicular homicides, the US rises to the top 5

>>135624303
It was a strawman. Chunk's argument wasn't that a high tax rate necessarily results growth in the economy, or that you can't have a good economy without high taxes.

It was that a high tax rate doesn't necessarily stunt growth like people like Ben claim. People like Ben see a marginal tax rate over 40% and get triggered and say "REEEEEE NOOOO NOT MY PRECIOUS (((JOB CREATORS))) LEAVE THEM ALOOOOOOONE!!!"

>>135621493
Shareblue Faggot just you wait, the rope is coming.

>>135644517
If Cenk said "Why don't we just have tax rates go to 0%", every kike cocksucker on this board would be mocking him for it.

Turn off the TV.

>>135642584
>it is all obongo's fault
US healthcare has always been fucked you mong.

>>135621493
>thinking someone won in a debate between two fucking retards.

KYS

>>135621493

Cenk is a filthy turkroach.

Shapiro is a filthy kike.

That's all anybody need know.

CENK IS A ROAD SCHOLAR

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>>135621493
Remember Cannabis CURES Cancer. Why does America want to keep the best natural medicine away from Americans? Because they take legal bribes from Big Pharma.

>>135623829
>If you're wealthy, you're getting the best of the best. If you're poor, you're kind of fucked.

But that's not true. You can to to the emergency room and just not pay. Also, health care providers often negotiate with patients that do not have insurance. People are either too lazy or don't speak English so they do not try to negotiate, and end up just going to the ER and then not paying.

I will concede that we have terrible preventative health care.

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>>135644955

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>>135640892
>trying this hard to be edgy with social darwinism
Dumbass, 90% of ALL lifetime medical costs occur in the last year of life. For most people in the U.S. that luckily coincides with and age that allows access to Medicare. If it so happens your last year of life is before then, it's going to be a shitty year.

>>135635457

>what you do for society is measured in how much you've earned in life


>>135635536

Instead of "right to live", would you prefer "right to survive illness"?

>>135648951
>cherry picking the image
In each of those graphs are taken from tables of many more countries which are not plotted.

In "Comparing Health System Performance in OECD Countries" the US gets BTFO if you actually read the papers cited properly instead of just looking at cherry picked graphs.

You won't even bother reading a full paper because you don't want your world view challenged but I suggest you do so.
Up to date comparison of US, Germany and Canada.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3633404/

>>135640892
>implying you'd support a government run program for healthy children

>>135621493
>Unironically thinking that is not an accurate appraisal of the situation.
The quality of care means nothing to you.

>>135650826

/thread

>>135650826
>Every statistic I don't like is cherry picking. Read a paper I like and supports my worldview because that paper is absolutely accurate and yours is wrong.

I did read it and it sounded like a socialist was dismissing our system due to its expense and the uninsured people.

They have the best healthcare for rich people

/Thread

>>135621493
>There are other examples of disgusting strawman arguments by Ben during this debate, like when Cenk said "Higher taxes don't essentially mean weaker economy" and Ben responded with "So why wouldn't raise the taxes to 100%?"

Did you not understand the point of the hyperbole? Ben often makes use of questions like this with hyperbole and the intention is to get the opponent to admit quantities.

>>135654736
>Every statistic I don't like is cherry picking. Read a paper I like and supports my worldview because that paper is absolutely accurate and yours is wrong.
Read the papers that are cited in the very image you posted then. I don't give a fuck, if anything "Comparing Health System Performance in OECD Countries" is more damning than the paper I gave and it's cited in your image.

>>135621493
>"So why wouldn't raise the taxes to 100%?"
The argument Ben was making is that Cenk was conflating high taxes with a higher growth rate and more prosperity. Clearly Ben knew that Cenk didn't want a 100% tax rate, but he was asking: if America was so prosperous during the 50s and 60s because of a "91%" tax rate, then why not have a 91% tax rate today, or even 100%? Cenk didn't have an answer, he simply said that he didn't want that high of a tax rate despite just saying that America's former success was because of high taxes.

Shapiro was too implicit about how inconsequential the political value of money is compared to speech.

>>135621493
Ok, you picked out one little point in the debate. Good. Now how about the fact that chink thinks that people can ONLY be bribed with money?

Shapiro is right.

America has low life expectancy due to unhealthy lifestyle of the majority of Americans. 40 million black people don't help either, as they have naturally short lifespans.

White Americans outlive white Europeans.

America has the best healthcare in the world when it comes to surgeries, cancer and treatments