Is it a coincidence that all arguments against anarcho-capitalism

>>134797334
Jewish Question.

>>134797334
> What if the child consents tho..

I don't want to live in a world with no morals and where everything can be bought

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>>134798304
Why not buy some morality then famalam

>>134798304
are you implying that morals are decided by the government? so illegal equals immoral, and vice -versa? that's awfully morally relativistic of you.

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I've read some of those mises articles and the main argument presented against national socialism was muh growth muh cost muh variety of products.

The thing is that we don't care about maximizing profits and importing cheap, sometimes dangerous products which lower the standard of living in the importing country. We're willing to work harder, to do with a bit less than what we have now and work hard to make our country the best it can be without compromising the well-being of our people.

>>134797334
uninformed opinions are not arbitrary. They follow patterns. You can't expect the uneducated to accidentally get things right, but you can expect them to be passionately wrong.

>>134798304
then kys cuz you just described right now

>>134798774
you do realize nobody is forcing anyone to buy those cheap and sometimes dangerous products, right? in a free society you can choose to buy expensive, trusted, home-grown nationalist goods too. if that's what the people want, and they're willing to pay to achieve it, then they'll do it.

but they're not, are they? Guess you're not that correct about what people truly desire, then, are you?

>>134797334
>Ancap is the default setting for value exchange among modern humans.
>Value trading is the primary social mechanism which delineates modern human from goyim.
>Ancap is secret doctrine of Trans-dimensional Bogs passed down as a reward for choosing the correct timeline.
>Ancap is descriptive of nature not prescriptive of economic presupposition.
>Ancap is least (((spooked))) analytical framework for value exchange.
>All other systems depend on ANCAP defaults.
Why do commies even try?

There must be government to impose regulations to prevent companies from doing stupid shit that they will profit from immediately but cripple themselves/economy/society later.

It's really simple... a world where people can sell their own children because they are their property is shitty.

>>134799904
ok but, you realize you just described how things play out right now right?

>>134799904
interesting hypothesis. what you're saying is that the government knows how to runs business better than actual business do? and that they know what they're talking about when it comes to the macro-economy better than everyone else, and thus should have control over it? very interesting.

in that case, why not just let the government run all business directly, ala communism? by your theory that should function much better than the current state, where idiot capitalists keep making bad decisions and making everyone poorer, right?

>>134800196
you cant sell your children because you dont own your children. Your children own themselves.

Also, child trafficking is an enormous international industry which makes its homes in the most oppressive states with the biggest governments. In order to make a criticism of ancapitalism, you have to describe an undesirable outcome that isn't already happening.

>>134798304
wtf are you on about, morals are universal
>gulag failure wall-in own people flag

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>>134799904
Proofs.
Has real ANCAP even been tried? no. Because incompetents like you always feel like they'll be left out.

>>134800196
It was legal to buy children in sweden not that long ago, poor families sold their children to more well off families and they didn't have to live a life of poverty as a consequence.

Even if they had to work in the new family, its not like they wouldn't had in their old one.

>>134801010
>Has real ANCAP even been tried?
yes, during colonization by pioneers
shame the central planning and kikes took over

>>134797334
Anarcho-capitalism could work, but without government we could easily get invaded and all that can go away

>>134801010
nah
dont talk like a commie
ancap is being tried all the time with great results on small scale interactions. Every time people engage in person to person commerce without the state holding their hands, while also managing to not spontaneously murdering each other, is another example of ancap working great..

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>>134801164
You're precisely right. We should remove that garbage, no?

>>134801280
I'd subscribe to military protection tbqfh. That way there's a contract and it's not a question who's serving whom...

>>134801280
gee whiz you're right. I guess we better allow the creation of a social super class with dominion over our lives. Because you know, we don't want some government to enslave us.

>>134801280
that applies to governments too. all governments have armies, and they get invaded and lose anyway. an ancap state should be able to defend itself using private armies and defense contractors. due to the efficiency of the free market, they would actually have stronger defensive capabilities than an authoritarian state of the same size.

it's very silly to assume that ancapistan wouldn't have any means of national defense.

>>134800628
How exactly do children own themselves?

What means does an infant have to sustain itself?

It can't even feed itself, let alone acquire capital.

Children are forced into an indentured slave contract merely by existing and are therefore the property of the parent. I suppose your non-aggression principle could lay out an agreed-upon path for emancipation through repaying that debt.

Are you going to suggest that we force individuals to subsidize the existence of someone else until they reach an age of maturity and just allow them to be independent from that point?

>>134801621
None of this is the domain of ancapistani government. Go feelspost in a commie thread.

>>134801322
>Every time people engage in person to person commerce without the state holding their hands, while also managing to not spontaneously murdering each other, is another example of ancap working great.
but anon, don't you realize that governments is literally the only thing stopping people from murdering each other on the streets?!?!? I mean if the government didn't stop me, I would kill everyone!

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>>134801621
it isn't about sustenance but ownership over one's own body
I believe that putting a child in indentured servitude would be a violation because the act itself implies ownership over the child's body by other party
>>134801378
I like pic related better, way faster

>>134797334
Main concern today is demography and ancaps have no answers for that. Yeah, we get it, free market is great, fuck the poor whatever. Not interesting because we're already rich.

>>134800490
>what you're saying is that the government knows how to runs business better than actual business do?
Did I say that?
The government knows what a business SHOULDN'T do because even if it is profitable for the company it would be harmful for the economy on the whole.

>>134801010
You may also like: Financial crisis of 2007–2008.

>>134801964
>Main concern today is demography
because of wealth redistribution, single-payer healthcare and payg pension ponzi schemes, literally no other reason behind such 'concern'
libertarian right future is inevitable and it'll come to be through disruptive technologies and subsequent pacification of violators who will invariably be comprised of negatively-selected specimens that thrive on contemporary vampirism

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>But without the state, who will protect the trannies????????????????????

>>134802169
the next one: electric boogaloo will kill the €U, perhaps U$ too; can't wait for it desu

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>>134802169
No...no no no. that was the manufactured crisis that allowed obongo to fork over shitloads of goybucks to the folks that just got him elected. That's the opposite of what would be allowed in ancapistan.
We would have piked the kikes...no doubt in my mind.
You don't even pay attention to American politics, get the fuck out of this thread.

>>134801992
now you focus your argument on the hypothesis that what the company does to profit itself is also bad for the economy as a whole, and the government knows which actions leads to this consequence and which do not.

Again, interesting hypothesis, but what is it based on? Once again you can extrapolate it to a full endorsement of central planing and controlled economies. You're essentially arguing that free market capitalism is innately broken, as actions that lead to increased individual wealth will lead to society as a whole becoming poorer. From my observations of history and reality, this is the complete opposite of how it actually works. The only occasions when profit-motives leads to decreased societal wealth is when the government becomes involved in it with its dirty hands.

>>134797334
Economically is on point but there will always be individuals to will want to creat a taxation monopoly and there's no way ancapism can prevent that.

>>134798774
This, essentially. Our main issue with libertarian systems is their inability to see things besides dollar signs, growth, markets, and rights. There are some things you cannot put a price on.

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>>134801792
>ancapistani government

>>134802169
>le financial crisis was caused by free market capitalism XD
no.

>>134801954
I suppose a child could own a body until it fails from malnutrition.

>>134802424
That is tinfoil hat tier.
Lots of banks and funds went tits up. And those that haven't lost billions. But somehow the owners/major shareholders of them "profited on goybucks".
The reason of the crisis was failure of CES/government to fulfill it's regulatory functions.

>>134802864
Companies are forced to operate economically on a human lifetime scale. It's pointless for those profiting from a company to care about the state of the company beyond their lifespan.

A state must care about long-term sustainability, even if that means short-term economic pains. A way this happens is through regulation that limits to negative impact of companies.

>>134803018
This is the only way statists can understand...and it underlines how stupid their arguments are...

>>134803124
it would be in the parents' best interest to invest in it, after all without a welfare state families have no choice but to stick together throughout their lives
it's still like that for us more fortunate ones

>>134803022
It was caused by greedy people left unchecked.

>>134803303
No. It actually isn't, do your homework, toothpaste-senpai.

>>134803478
I don't believe there's an intrinsically known "best interest" that's wholly acceptable in a functional society. It could be in my best interest to alleviate an economic burden from a child I created in error by abandoning it.

>>134802295
No, that's wishful thinking. Wealth redistribution etc are already expansive means for pacification, even libertarians talk about universal basic income. Also, what are negatively-selected specimen? What libertarians would love is to brain drain the third world, get every non-retarded African and Indian with a degree and let them come in droves to maximize productivity. They would be positively selected (except maybe their kids and grandkids).

>>134802864
Yet again you twisted what I've said.
>>134803412
Thank you.
1. Become a CEO.
2. Do whatever you can for the profits to rapidly go up.
3. Collect a huge bonus check for it, resign.
4. If shit gets fucked as consequence of your action it isn't your problem anymore.

>>134803412
what are you basing this on? your ass?

governments operate on the scale of election cycles, usually around 4 years. This is the reason why countries like Greece go bankrupt, because as long as you get elected who gives a shit? corporations in comparison operate on the basis of however long the shareholders stay in, which actually tends to be pretty long. research shows corporations are highly efficient at long-term investment, much more so than other forms of invested capital.

you have a whole lot of conjecture, but you're not actually basing it on reality. the fact you think governments care about the far-off future is laughable.

>>134803431
your memes are garbage and based on idiotic assumptions

please try harder or something because it feels like you're just ironically trolling

>>134797334
>entry level econ textbook

That's exactly the problem. Lolbertarians never move beyond Micro 101. Markets fail all the time.

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>>134801621
no im going to ask people to not be obtuse. Children own themselves the same way adults own themselves, and it has nothing to do with being independent. Rearing your children with enough food to live, and not burdening them with debt for it, is something people do because they want to and because they love their children.

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>>134799222
Now don't be silly. People will buy what they have to in order to live. Some people make do with less money. I don't know how you could possibly decide what people really want based on how they act in an imperfect world. That isn't a capitalism vs Nat soc issue, that's a question of theory and trying to project it onto people.

At any rate, people working in shit conditions for shit wages will make cheaper products, generally. Especially today, many products can be made cheaply provided cheap sources of labor.

Again, I'm not interested in putting the market before the people. Nobody's being forced by anything but the profit motive, and we've seen what that's accomplished both good and bad.

Tldr I don't care about maximum freedom in the market. I care about the people being able to take care of themselves while combating corruption.

>>134803975
I'm not aware of any market failure that wasn't caused by government meddling. maybe you're the one who needs to study more economics?

>>134797334
identity politics are a fucking trap; an caps will perpetually consume their own ideology as a snake infinitely eating its own tail

serious question-what stops memeball scenarios from happening?

>>134803902
Current western governments perhaps.

I don't see how an ancap system wouldn't be worse in every way regarding the things you are criticizing.

"They don't do such a good job anyway" is not an argument if the counter-argument is "we just wouldn't try at all"

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>>134798774
Take the hoppe pill

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>>134797334

>AnCap
>only adopted by 16 year olds
>"brilliant ideology"

>>134799883
Capitalism is only a few hundred years old and requires a state to ensure private property for it to function.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palace_economy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primitive_communism
Get fukt

>>134804278
Such as?

>>134797334
>he thinks the real world operates like an Econ text book
This right here is the crux of why ancaps and lolbertarians are retarded.

>>134801964
Family hops the border
>With a state
The family is subsidised by the taxpayer through healthcare and wealth redistribution. Maybe the family even gets to vote for more of it in the future.

>Without a state
The family either financially fails and moves back to their home country, or they create something valuable and they stay. Naturally weeds out the bad eggs (crazy how nature do that senpai)

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if you wanted a le epic memeball thread you could've just asked

>>134797334
AnCaps shouldn't have to undergo some Starship Troopers-esque service to become citizens. Except instead of military service, they should be forced to work in an unregulated sweat shop for half of the federal minimum wage for 8 years, without the help from daddy that they all deny getting. If they come out of it unchanged, they get to be an AnCap. If at any time they quit, they will be executed if they ever espouse AnCap rhetoric again.

>>134804549
>should have to

>>134804449
Current capitalism != the non central bank, non govt regulated, no artificial monopoly, free markets that ancaps envision

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>>134804457
for example

>>134803486
holy shit read a book.

>>134804303
>I don't see how an ancap system wouldn't be worse in every way regarding the things you are criticizing.
because ancapitan is not based on a monopoly. there is only one government, so if it goes bankrupt due to bad practices, you're fucked. Ancaps have many different corporations, and only those who are the most efficient will survive. That is why the private sector is many times more efficient than governed programs. That is why corporations who have been around for a long time are far better at money-management than states, which have sample size of 1.

you put up a lot of conjecture as to why, in your head, governments should be more efficient than markets. but that doesn't correspond with observable reality.

>>134801992
>The government knows what a business SHOULDN'T do
no. no they don't. This is an absurd claim you're making, and there is no basis for it. Furthermore, I will assert, that even if a government agency, or the state as a whole, did have this knowledge, it is not always going to be in their interests to prevent the business from doing that.


A real world example is the EPA. An agency specifically created to stop big businesses from destroying the environment, and the number one thing they do, their daily function, is to provide permits to businesses to allow them to pollute.
The EPA is an institution, backed by the power of the state, which gives people legal protection to destroy the environment if they pay a fee.
The Environmental Protection Agency, provides state power to protect polluters in exchange for money.

And yet without them, we're lead to believe, big business would go crazy and pollute.

>>134797334
>anarcho capitalism=Somalia
>succesfull
kys

>>134804488
and yet even with those digits you couldnt actually articulate why you think that way.

>>134798774
>We're willing to work harder
I'm sorry what's with this "we" stuff? I'll work as hard as I damn well please because that's my right
Unless you're going to force me to work? In which case pardon me while I exercise another of my rights, the right to shoot ye who violate the NAP

>>134804724
>EPA gets bribed by big business to destroy the environment
>if we stopped making corporations lose money to destroy the environment, they wouldn't do it anymore

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>>134804819
>kys
howdy there reddit how's it going, when is your 13th birthday?

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>>134805034

>>134804244
>identity politics
Ancap has nothing to do with that. Start a nig gay dwarf covenant if you want. Long as you can survive with no gibs, no affirmative action, free association only (right to discriminate, no diversity crap), you're good.

>>134804549
>ancaps should be enslaved by the government. That'll teach them to love big government.

>>134803859
>wishful thinking
it's solely dependent on reproductive strategy; both r- and k-selection has its place but the latter is clearly dominant in evolved societies, the former among what is generally referred to as subhumans in these parts
>Wealth redistribution
taxation is theft, no way around it; charity and voluntary contributions e.g. towards a local community project are a-OK
>universal basic income
coming out of whose pocket? ancap land is allodial
>what are negatively-selected specimen?
negative selection is providing resources to dead ends such as welfare moochers, government employees, lumpenproleteriat, niggers, addicts and so on
>brain drain the third world
why would you opt for out-group members in your community, you could get ostracised for trying to do so

>>134804086
People loving their children is a very modern concept. You're ignoring a massive amount of historical context from the vast majority of human history.

People kept their children alive before modern society mostly as a feudalist labor force, and it would devolve back to that... that is unless economic activity offers you a cheaper means of production, which technology does offer. You can imagine feeding your kid that sweeps the floors until you can afford that roomba.

Let's not even go into the risk a human has to take to have a child. It would make no economic sense to have your own. You'd either hire someone to impregnate or buy an infant. you can throw any notion of gender equality out the window as well, as males would always have an advantage as they don't have to assume pregnancy risks... which is a nice way to foster half of the population into becoming dissidents.

You're imagining a fantasy society that ignores the economic realities of capitalism, let alone anarcho-capitalism.

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>>134804685
good idea
ancaps aren't really worth arguing with
they are convinced that their hypothetical inorganic thought experiment will work
better to just mock and sage

>>134797334

>wouldn't be solved by picking up an entry level econ textbook

How does the old saying go? Something like "25% of an economist's job is to predict what will happen, and 75% is too explain what he predicted would happen didn't actually happen"?

>>134805115
>AnCaps have rich fathers and have never voluntarily worked for less than minimum wage
>think they're qualified to tell others they deserve to lose their jobs to Mexicans if they won't work for $3/hr

There must always be rulers in life. However, there are nearly as many qualified rulers as there are people, for people are fit rulers in their own lives. At the same time as that is true, there are very few qualified rulers when you begin to require that a person rule over more than one life. For one human life is already a very complicated and intimate thing. How then can we believe that there exist people who can ruler over millions?

>>134805043
if they didnt have legal protection we could sue them, or worse, for it.

>>134805156
subsistence agriculture done manually is a thing of the past, there's no need for extra hands like it was a mere century ago

>>134805333
>our kangaroo courts with no legitimate claim to use of force will be more effective in administering justice than the evil, scary entity with a monopoly on force

>>134797334
>anarcho

Need I say more?

>>134805156
This. Imagine an ancap society, it will very much begin to become soulless, sort of like china. Everything is a transaction, nothing has value except wealth. People will be bought and sold. You can beat your ass sleazy corruption will permeate the society at a fundamental level. I can imagine gangs capturing children and forcing them to sign contracts. If anyone tries to investigate they are bribed. Wholesale slavery will be a thing.

A society run by sociopathic plutocrats and mobsters, truly a shiny future awaits.

>>134805156
and you're imagining that when I support small to no government and free enterprise I some how mean I'm going to go back in time and convert illiterate bare-handed-ass-wipers from the middle ages.

Loving your kids is a modern concept? Well guess what! We live in the modern era! So problem solved.

>>134797334
>ancap
>calling anyone "economically illiterate retards"

10/10

>>134799222
People shouldn't be allowed to sell out their homeland and race. We don't want "muh free society" we want a future for our race and a boot on the necks of subhumans

>>134805303
that's a lot of nonsense you chose to type out.
>>134805480
it's called private arbitration. It happens all the time right now, and is much more effective than state courts.

>>134804709
oh good lord.

If a state governing a capitalist society goes bankrupt it just becomes Anarcho-capitalist, by definition. You're literally saying the worst case is anarcho-capitalism.

You can also just shortcut your brain a bit and realize that a capitalist state is just a complicated corporation that owns all the land and provides services and structures of governance just so all it's tenants don't leave or become a nuisance.

>>134805594
>a nation built on self governance and free enterprise will end up like china.

Dude. Just stop and actually think about your argument for a moment.
You have this example of a shitty place to live, and you have a theory of running a society. And this theory is the antithesis of how the real world example is run. Yet you are going to claim that, having more freedom and a smaller government will result in the observable consequences of having less freedom and a bigger government. Based on the completely outrageous belief that, if there is no state authority ready to kill people to force them to be good, parents wont love their children.

>>134797334
It's very much about IQ. The IQ/Ideology correlation goes something like this;

IQ 125+ AnCap
IQ 115-125 Capitalist
IQ 105-115 AnCom, Libertarian, NatSoc
IQ 85-105 Socialist, Communist
IQ 0-85 Can't undertand ideology. Primitives.

>>134805888
sorry but what you want is economically unsustainable.

>>134804322

And yet every time a liberal or libertarian party comes into a ruling coalition in the west they cuck for mass immigration because MUH GDP and for all kinds of leftist bullshit because MUH INDIVIDUAL rights.

>>134805889
No it's not. How many times have you gone to someone hiring illegal immigrants and told them you'll work for less? None. How many AnCaps have ever done that? None.
>private arbitration
>only recognized as legitimate because the state recognizes them as alternatives to state courts

>>134804513
I don't think nature in its purest form works with civilized economic paradigms, it's more barbaric and stagnant.
>The family either financially fails and moves back to their home country
that's naive on your part, people go where the money is, doesn't matter how charitable the government is

>>134805123
The problem I have with charity.only is that it incentivized beggarism. Nothing worse than an industry full of professional beggars.
>why would you opt for out-group members in your community, you could get ostracised for trying to do so
Not necessarily, people do it right now to virtue signal and cost reduction, and they did in the past. It's all about how you sell it to the people. Those who complain have nothing to say anyway, because nobody cares about them anyway like today.

>>134805692
Modern society is based on having strong protective enclave states and social services that allow for philosophical concepts such as love. If you're worrying about profits 100% of the time, which would you bother with love at all? That's an economic disadvantage.

For example another modern concept is marriage in the name of love. In an ancap society this would devolve back to contractual "marriages" for economic gains. You would "marry" off your kids for dowry's. This is the reality in more anarchistic societies right now.

>>134806330
>we need 85 IQ brown people to sustain our decadent, degenerate lifestyles
And when they become the majority you'll see them regress to the mean and the US will look like Brazil. At least your dad's portfolio grew 12% though!

>>134806368
yeah you're right. I've never tried to bargain for a lower wage. Instead I invested in my personal capital, and now I demand higher wages than the minimum for my skilled work.

And those low wage low skill immigrant workers can only afford to live off those wages because of government subsidies on their income. Take those away and Pedro will slap your face clean off if you offered him minimum wage to pick fruit. If he even thought it was worth his time to move in the first place.

And go ahead and try to higher some dudes outside of home depot for minimum wage. See how many hop in your truck.

>>134806796
>In an ancap society this would devolve back to contractual "marriages" for economic gains

You realize you speak for yourself right? Present evidence of this claim of yours or gtfo.

>>134807006
>if you got rid of SNAP and WIC immigrants would be making $15/hr to pick tomatoes and build decks
How fucking retarded are you people?

>>134807020
>nobody has ever been retarded enough to practice anarcho capitalism
>give evidence of what happens in AnCap societies

>>134807020
Presupposing "marriage" is a contract between 2 or more humans that creates a partnership based on sharing resources, marriage in the name of love would be utterly fiscally irresponsible. You would want to marry someone who has the greatest amount of capital, as you are searching for a net increase in capital. You could enter such a partnership for purposes of luxury, perhaps you want someone you find very sexually attractive and are willing to split resources with them, but even then it makes less sense to share such a broad contract instead of paying them just for sex.

In essence in a ancap state "marriage" is synonymous with mergers between companies. You'll have to provide an example of 2 companies merging because of love to provide any sort of counter-argument.

>>134806796
Are you describing yourself here? Is that how YOU would be? You'd just lose the ability to love because...because why? you're worried about money? Gee how unusual and uncommon in our modern statist society, to be worried about money.

I'm not persuaded by your assertion that people will devolve into mindless monsters because they have to pay bills, and otherwise you're just describing life right now, and your conclusion is mostly not true. With the exceptions being people reliant on more than average welfare programs. If we actually care about real life examples it would show that it's welfare, not the burden of independence, that promotes child abuse and its peripherals.

>>134806998
The kind of state needed to support a society would be economically unsustainable exactly like the Third Reich was, was what I meant by my comment. It had nothing to do with race or immigration.

>>134799222
How would you determine whether a product was safe or not in an ancap system. People tell lies. The companies that made asbestos knew how bad it was in the 30's but it wasn't banned for another 50 years or so. In a society based purely on money how would this be accomplished, if there were no state authority. Especially if a large amount of money was being made.

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>>134798537
Capped for eternity.

Trademark released.

>>134807335
I wouldnt know because you didnt accurately summarize my point with your greentext.

Maybe the problem is you keep inferring some kind of meaning under my literal words, and that's what you're actually arguing against right now.

wtf is capitalism?

>Let's convince all 320 million Americans follow the NAP and then we'll know peace..

Listen kid.. The only way we can have libertarianism, is if we cleanse the commies, cucks, and degenerates first.

>>134797334
What's the difference between the state and a supremely powerful warlord who owns a country worth of land in an ancap society? You're living on Uncle Sam's land, so you live by his rules and pay his rent.

>>134806257
if i gain one more iq point i'll become a retard

>>134797334
I'd rather not have competing roads, total lack of environmental protection, and nonexistent morals among other things. Half of the stuff the government does which betters society is stuff people would not pay a company for because they are selfish.

An ancap society would be too easy for not only foreign takeover, but also internal takeover as monopolies could easily form in secret and their would be no government to shut them down.

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>>134808373
Counter-Economics are only a degree less unethical than passivity.

I'm refusing to fund the warlord. It's his move now.

>>134807709
The society one lives in forces you to partake in it along the path of least resistance.

Your other option in an ancap society are NAP violations of self-exile (I live in the deep woods where no one notices you're stealing from whomever owns that land), or NAP violations against entities in a time frame where you gather enough capital through force before everyone else bands together to stop you.

Generally, there is nothing that stops total monopolization of society by an entity that owns >50% of the military power and then enacting decrees from that pulpit of power. So really you're devolving into a world where every possible entity is racing for enough power to overcome everyone else fighting together. That also could happen very quickly with a couple strategic mergers.

>>134807614
>In essence in a ancap state

AnCap state? Right, you have no clue what you're talking about. No need to dwelve further, feel free to come back when you know what you're talking about.

>>134806796
Ya know not everyone turns into a heartless exploitative pig when given the chance to do so
Some people would treat their children like the people they are and let them make their own choices
Even under anarcho-capitalism there would still be christians putting money in their little collection plate and people who give the homeless pizzas.

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>>134808885
>he doesn't know the reality he described gives me boners

>>134808856
Then he sends his goons to collect. He calls them cops.

>>134806437
people rn are forced to live under a relatively fixed set of rules spanning pretty much the entirety of the developed world; inability to change the status quo is the rising pressure about to blow the lid off sooner or later, especially so with redpills about inconvenient truths on pretty much every narrative entering normie consciousness

contrast this to an ancap world which would be balkanized to the max; you'd have local communities - Hoppean covenants - that would cooperate among and compete against each other, each one of them with different organization tailored to their members' (land owners) preferences, local circumstances and so on; you could actually have totally ancap, totally natsoc and totally commie neighbours living in peace because people within those would be sharing their communities with likeminded individuals of compatible world views and value systems - all without any violence necessary, at least that is what I have in mind when I think ancap

>>134808910
>Ya know not everyone turns into a heartless exploitative pig when given the chance to do so

Of course people CAN be socialist.

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>>134809061
I didn't fund any goons. I specifically requested a free market to which extract reality straight from the tap...

Instead he does unethical thing after unethical thing, all day long, right in front of all of our faces.

Ethical Revolution is REALS

>>134809457
That's the point. Eventually somebody is going to own continents and you have no choice but to live in someone's personal kingdom with no say on the house rules whatsoever. You've gone full circle back to feudalism.

There is no age of consent if the kid has no parents,because it becomes your property,and you can fuck your own property when you want

>>134797334
I always ask ancaps who say the world would be better if only it were ancap...

How aren't we in an ancap world right now?

>>134809819
Two major reasons;

1.) Most people are too stupid to understand it. IQ wise, harsh reality.
2.) Stupid people currently rule most nations. Can't understand AnCap. Can't allow AnCap.

>>134809097
That's interesting and something I could get behind, but decentralization and community spirit in form of smaller, sovereign states like Switzerland or even smaller isn't what the libertarians or ancaps typically advocate.

>>134797334
>Is it a coincidence that all arguments against anarcho-capitalism are made by economically illiterate retards?
>I haven't seen a single objection that wouldn't be solved by picking up an entry level econ textbook. Could it be that statists have too low of an IQ to comprehend such a brilliant ideology?


exaaaaaaaaactly the question i ask me every time i see those idiotic "ancap ball" memes.
everything said thee is so blatantly false statements .... mindboggling

>>134808885
Well I gotta believe that not all cultures are so obsessed with power for the sake of power that they'd throw away a demonstrably good life just to ruin it for every one else. I also believe that that mentality is primitive and indicative of primitive societies. When you have technology that can illuminate the dark and give you infinite clean water from out of your walls. People just aren't as motivated to join roaming warbands.

>>134810428
Anarchists typically dont advocate any kind of state.

>>134809684
based on what?

>>134810596
> People just aren't as motivated to join roaming warbands.

But voting them into power is just fine.

>>134810252
Lemme help you with this question.

Add 'Inc." at the end of the name of every nation.

>>134809819
because we live in a world which was built by despots, and their heirs are still around and are afraid to relinquish that power, else they be punished for many unspeakable crimes.

Most of the actual smart motivated people already gave up political power for personal wealth. It used to be you needed the labor of thousands of slaves so you could live in a big house and not have to do hard work. Now, that life is easily attainable to most people living in America. With the added bonus of not having to poop in a bowl you keep under your bed.

>>134810596
Of course. That's why many cultures are trying to build societies that aren't ancap.

>>134810644
Being against a state is like being against hierarchy. Enforcing anti-statism will devolve into a farce.

>>134810964
Add Inc. to every persons name.

>>134810847
everyone likes bacon but most people wouldnt eat it if they had to cut it out of the pigs themselves.

>>134811121
No most certainly not. Thats why we buy them from people who would. Quite simple concept.

>>134809287
Yea but the difference is in an anarcho-capitalist society you are only ever being nice with your own private property, since it's yours, you can do what you want with it, even give it away
The difference is that "generosity" is compulsive in communism and all it's softer variants (socialism and potentially democracy)
See it's ethical and voluntary if you want to give away things that belong to you in the name of charity, go ahead, by all means
But Socialism is specifically when you mandate such a thing with the threat of violence by a state. This is much less ethical as it doesn't respect private property rights, and by extension, human life.

>>134811063
because most societies and cultures are not ones that can handle that much freedom. They unironically need to be subjugated in order to have enough cohesion to even be considered a society.

But ask yourself where these cultures came from? What environment built these cultures? Just like how Islam teaches boys they have no self control around women, and sure enough thats how they grow up, a society which has spent the better part of human history hopping from one tyrant to the next, will surely have a culture of repressed barbarism and a love for bondage.

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Anarcho capitalism is less anarchist and then it is less jewish.

>>134804685
1. Nukes cost a shit-ton of money to produce, mainly due to the size of centrifuge and amount of raw Uranium needed.
2. If by air you mean the airspace above your property, you own that. The air itself, though, is impossible to be owned and is treated as a natural resource.
3. Weed farm, while degenerate, is literally just a plant that you grow.
4. Bitcoin is a meme, any medium of exchange could be used, although gold would most likely be the currency of choice.
5. reparations imply a court acted in your favor. This is exactly how judicial systems work today, only less frivolous.
6. Cocaine is just a degenerate substance, but there's no reason to ban it other than cucks that need a mommy and daddy to tell them what to do.
7. Children cannot consent to working, and therefore could not work. A parent or guardian could consent to allow a child to work for short periods of time and for them, but the child would receive the full reimbursement for the work.
8. Children wouldn't be used in coal mines, and endangering the lives of a person that cannot consent is slavery; the person that tried to hire children would be arrested by their neighbors for kidnapping/slavery and probably hanged.
9. Without government subsidies, nobody would mine coal and nobody would open new coal mines.

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>>134811121
I've done that numerous times since my childhood, it's a happy time when we make all kinds of exquisite animal products

>>134811065
>Enforcing anti-statism will devolve into a farce.

AnCap is not about enforcing anything. That's the whole point. Enforcement is what we have now, but we'd rather live or our lives in societies that are not ruled through cohersion. Just let us be. Laissez faire.

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who else /guildbasedeconomy/ master race?

>>134810252
you mean, there are too many collectivist tribes in the world. soooo... gas the kikes to start ?

>>134811834
That sounds nice, but there is always need and demand to enforce. The true gold standard is violence and the threat of violence. And many would want and will try to monopolize it.

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>>134797334
Minarchism and a small yet still a government is needed to allow the free market to flourish. Without a government monopolies would form.

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>>134808297
You know your stuff

>>134797334
>all arguments against anarcho-capitalism
There are no arguments against anarcho-capitalism because we already live in one. and always lived. Only mistake anarcho-capitalist made is estimation of the subject size. they believed that minimal subject would be a person but it is state. States live in anarcho-capitalism.

How is "anarcho-capitalism" anarchism exactly if it doesn't abolish hierarchy between humans ?
Anarchy is basically horizontal relationship between people instead of vertical.

>>134797334
Anyone who disagrees with me is an idiot
/thread

The reality is that no real life economic theory has ever had anything in common with Anarcho-Capitalism, and, the other way around, no economic theory that ever supported Andrcho-capitalism had ever a lasting real life impact.

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>>134812545
Monopolies would form, so let's form a monopoly to make sure there are no monopolies.

>>134812826
This is totally true.
States ARE living in an anarcho-capitalist society. They are the true owner of the land they govern, and you are just a leaser, if have any land property.

>>134808885
So basically you described process of states birth.

>>134811671
you're right. I'm sorry. I cherish your labor and the products there of.

>>134812909
>no real life economic theory

Sorry to tell you but you have no idea what you're talking about. I suggest you read up a little bit on what it is you argue against before making comments on it.

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>>134811873
the home industry is going to come back in a BIG way with automation.

>>134812909
but practical economic reality supports ancap 100% of the time.

>>134813375
>but practical economic reality supports ancap 100% of the time.

This is true.

>>134803486
You russhits can't do anything right, can you? The US doesn't have a free market you fucking twat, and its governments that always allow greed to thrive by corporate welfare, the bureaucracy, and other favors. Fuck off

>>134813375
All of the major economic theories that ever existed have given a role the the government. "Muh free market" never was an argument exclusive to ancaps.

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>>134797968
This is from Hans Hermann Hoppe's invitation only conference.
He invited Richard Lynn and Jared Taylor a few years ago.
Lynn mentions the Rothschilds in the first 3 minutes. Libertarian types are well aware of the (((bankers))).
https://vimeo.com/85580587
https://vimeo.com/85568469
https://vimeo.com/86857165

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>>134810596
>so obsessed with power for the sake of power
If you don't like sword you would be conquered by those who like.

>>134813549
ok?

>>134813503
Well they had some 85 years or so of hardcore communism so you can't expect them to understand much. It's like handing a baby Rothbards book "Man, Economy, and State", what is it going to do? Probably just hit itself on the head with it.

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>>134797334

>>134811873
specialisation is the essence of a productive economy, if people only have to learn to produce one good, they can learn to do it far more efficiently at at a better quality.

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>>134813152
I'd offer you some if you were here, anon

>>134813843
And since you are the owner of that and, you get to push whatever rule you want, but it's not called law .
How can ancaps even recover ?

>>134813843
I don't get all these ancap ball memes, they are all ridiculous scenarios. The situations you are using to parody ancap have statist equivalents that are just as horrible, yet those scenarios don't happen under statism and we don't use them as bs strawmen against the status-quo.

>>134813843
and then you get sued

>>134813595
>If you don't like sword you would be conquered by those who like.

I like sword. But only use sword in defence. Because im NAP. Invading russian taste my defensive swordplay. Invading russian die by sword. I put great sword on display. Russian invade no more.

>>134814271
>they are ridiculous scenarios

It is not ridiculous since the owner of a land is the master of it, logically, everyone would want his property to be always bigger and bigger, be it by buying or war.

>>134813590
Could someone upload these to jewtube and post them in /lrg/?
I can never get people to notice these vids because there's no [Embed] link, but they're really essential for demonstrating the how redpilled real ancaps are.

>>134814659
but dont mention just how prohibitively expensive actually owning an operable tomohawk missile is, or else the meme's arent funny.

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>>134814659
>Describes current state
>Uses it as a counter to ancap.

Your system won't work because it will become my system, therefore my system.

Swiss nigger

>>134815062
well, if 600 billions of your tax money didn't go the army every year, and went instead to something that would benefit you more, like free higher education, surely less people would bitch about "muh taxes"

>>134804661
>le current capitalism
There aren't different versions of capitalism. It also requires central banks. Even after Andrew Jackson destroyed the national bank there was the Independent Treasury, then the federal reserve. There's no getting around it. And if there's no state then how to you know what is who's property when there are no laws? You faggots are why UKIP will never be the majority party just like the Libertarians will never succeed in the US.

>>134815410
Your system becomes feudalism,
My system (swiss) is direct democracy
I prefer mine.

>>134815460
Caeser gave out free food to the poor so he could get away with being the cause of their poverty.

>>134815565
your country gets away with its opulent socialism because it's the financier to the world's wealthiest criminals.

>>134815850
We're talking about free higher education aka an open door to poor people to get out of it. You're teaching the man to fish, not giving him food, amerinigger

>>134797334
Who builds and owns a bridge?

What stops monopolies choking out competition and becoming inefficient.

Ancaps literally don't understand barriers to entry and natural monopolies.

>>134816342

Ok but even charity has to have strings attached, otherwise it's just like feeding wild animals for the sake of being compassionate rather than considering whether or not you're actually helping them in the long run.

The state is incapable of running a charitable program because of a lack of proper incentives (it's not their money) and a lack of proper information (nationalization of charity means central planning, and central planning suffers from the irreconcilable economic calculation problem).

>>134816342
welfare is poison no matter what flavor it is.
And free education isnt free. You have to take it from people who produce to give it to people who don't. Right now your country finds itself awash with the investment rights to billions of dollars of foreign tax dodgers and dictators. Which is fine! You're not morally culpable for what your clients do, but the fact still remains that your free college is being payed for by others who did the dirty work of taking it from people.

>>134804244
>ideology
libertarianism is a political *philosophy*, not an ideology

>>134817112
barriers to entry like licensing fees and industry specific regulations?

And by monopoly do you mean a single company which is so good at what it does nearly everyone prefers them to the competition? Because I'm not worried about that.

>>134817112
>Who builds and owns a bridge?
People who would benefit from and make more money if a bridge existed.

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>>134798774

You're making a trade-off where it doesn't exist. You can have free trade and a strong national culture. Your dogmatic insistence on Jucche will only keep nations in poverty.

>>134814271
Except that land ownership tends to concentrate in the hands of a few wealthy landowners. It's not a free market since supply is fixed.

>>134815460
>>134815565
What is this shit? Go back to fb with these social media tier opinions

>>134817112
>What stops monopolies choking out competition and becoming inefficient.

Free competition? You do know that during the industrial age, when competition was relatively free, these monopolies did form and fail right? The ones in favour of cartels and monopolies then decided that they needed government to intervene, in order to maintain their monopolies. Thus was crony capitalism born.

>>134817112
Free markets disallow inefficient monopolies, at least over long term periods. The fact is., most major monopolies are government creations.

On the contrary, people who have ONLY picked up and entry level economics textbook think "hurrr durrr supply and demand magic invisable hand."

There are plenty of good arguments against ancapism most have to do with the perfectly competitive market conditions are all bullshit and non existent.

But I'm sure taking econ 101 as an elective during your polisci (lmao) degree makes you an expert.

>>134817112
But that's literally not a monopoly. A monopoly is when your market share isn't threatened, which is actually never (unless the state grants you a monopoly). Bridge shareholders are in competition with capitalists who could potentially build a second bridge in the future. Also ferries. Also airplanes.

In practice, locals will buy stock in local infrastructure so they can recoup their tolls through dividends.

The only actual "barriers to entry" are manufactured by the state.

You're retarded.

>>134818389
There is little stopping an equivalent scenario like that from happening now, it would be easier to accomplish by buying government influence.

>>134818610
>what is economies of scale
>what is predatory pricing
>what is advertisement
>what is product proliferation

>>134818511

This.

Most forms of central planning are fundamentally justified on a belief in natural monopolies. They don't exist, historically you can trace the roots of all so-called natural monopolies to some form of state intervention in society. That is to say, all so-called monopolies are in actuality fractal offspring of the monopoly on authority we grant to the state.

https://mises.org/library/myth-natural-monopoly

>>134818888
This is the most retarded thing I've ever read.

Do you think capital accumulation and economies of scale don't exist?

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>>134818888

What this effectively reveals, is that Ancaps are right to say the state is nothing other than a cult. So when people say "how can society work without the state", it actually is as ridiculous as asking "how are we going to pick cotton without slavery?"

What people call "government" is not actually a form of governance, it is a front for a mafia cult, much like the Yakuza runs some legitimate business to present themselves as moral actors.

>>134818511
i wish there was a bullet, which when fired into a statist's head, would impart to them this simple fact.

before killing them.

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>>134805034
Myself and people like me are willing to do so. If you aren't then that's how you and your values are. I would, however, like to convince you to see things my way if I can.

>>134818121
Opening oneself to markets with lower living standards necessarily pressures native companies to cut back in one way or another in order to compete. If I regulate how companies react to outside pressure for the sake of my natives, I'll be making the market unfree by pressuring the decisions of the companies. I honestly don't see a way around this. The impact had on, say, the US due to deals like Nafta and of course trade with China speak for themselves, and I don't think that they've done more good than harm.

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>>134817112

Free market =/= perfect competition. You can have monopolies on a free market, as long as they manage to satisfy consumers enough to prevent potential competitors from entering the market.

Example: an ISP is the first to provide internet services in a small village in the middle of nowhere. Most likely, this ISP will charge high prices, higher compared to other big cities where the market size allows more competitors. However, a price too high will make the villagers to either stop using internet altogether or start using other internet services that don't require connecting to a grid (competition).

>>134819340

> Do you think capital accumulation and economies of scale don't exist?

There is a ying to every yang, there are equivalent advantages that small businesses have, diseconomies of scale. Small businesses are more agile and are able to take on more risk.

>>134819340
5 minute redpill for you, thank me later.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6Opvlmy8i8

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>>134818800
>predatory pricing
There is no such thing as predatory pricing. People like Stiglitz and Krugman are pulling the wool over your eyes.
You can only undercut a competitor while taking losses for so long. During this period, they're "giving back" their profits to society. The longer you take a loss, the less happy your shareholders will be. Additionally, speculators will swoop in, buy your goods cheap and sell them at a profit when you run out of money.
Your best bet for holding on to your "monopoly" is to lower your prices long term enough to where everyone's happy. This is why I say there's no such thing as monopoly.

>>134817501
The people who produce, mostly have also gained from free education, and they are willing to give so other people can benefit from it too.

The only people here who bitch about taxes are the one who were born rich. People who succeeded by starting from the bottom don't bitch about it because they know they couldn't be here without it.

>>134797334
>ancap

>speaking about economically illiterate retards.

All anarchy is delusional.

>>134800913

>Morals are universal.

They aren't.

>>134819861
You're ignoring economies of scale. If i have the biggest factory i can still make a profit while undercutting the little guy then go right back to charging monopoly price.

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>>134797334
but muh roads

>>134803877
1. Become a politician.
2. Do whatever you can for your votes and popularity to rapidly go up.
3. Make shady deals behind closed doors, get cushy job lined up in corporate sector from crony friends, then resign.
4. If shit gets fucked as consequence of your action it isn't your problem anymore.

At least in capitalism, you can vote away this BS every day with your dollar rather than every 2-4 years.

>>134819551

Those ppl in the picture, Azov?

>>134819922

Ok, so how did we ever get to the point where anyone was educated at all? Oh right, it all started with private institutions, and then as soon as there was enough wealth going around society where almost everyone could afford higher education, only then was there public support for publicly funded college education.

It's the same thing with workers rights and things like OSHA, only when most people could afford to be choosy about the conditions they worked in, did public support for workers "rights" come about.

The state doesn't fix any problem, it just puts its name on progress while slowly gunking the entire process of human progress up in the first place.

>>134813503
> NO TRUE FREE MARKET

Faggot actually has experience of living in a "freemarket" country run by seven (((bankers))), he has more practical experience with (((free market))) than you mouthbreathing larpers will ever have.

To think Al Gore is literally making millions off an idea that would lead to worldwide destruction followed up by total human slavery.

>>134819922
then why do you need the threat of state violence to get the money? Let them donate to a free education charity of their own free will.

>>134820023
>>134820106
you sure do like just saying words, dont you?

>>134819745
>Small businesses are more agile and are able to take on more risk.
No, the opposite is the case. Big businesses are much less risk averse and have a track record of innovation and dominating/defending their niche, while most small businesses are mainly concerned about survival.

>>134820473
>Ok, so how did we ever get to the point where anyone was educated at all? Oh right, it all started with private institutions, and then as soon as there was enough wealth going around society where almost everyone could afford higher education


>almost everyone
lel

Most people get into debt to get educated in the US. Here, it's much more simple. Producing people pay taxes so you can go to university. Then you become a producing people too. You pay taxes. Then the children of the people that paid for your education can get to university for free. How is that worst than getting in debt while young ?

>>134820552
free market is voluntary exchange of goods and services without the use of force.

by definition you can't have a free market in a statist society, because the definition of a state is a group of people who can legally commit violence in a certain geographic region.

it's helpful to define your terms, before you spend arguing for or against them in circles for 5 hours on a mongolian sushi making forum

>>134820144
So you're saying
1. the little guy has a certain price lower than which he cannot go
2. the big guy comes in with his economy of scale and captures more profit from the same goods, but he can't raise his price above the little guy's price
3. suddenly consumers are worse off...?

>>134820144
so you have a huge output, and you beat out the competition because the little guys cant stay in business at those prices. And your plan is to abandon this successful strategy just as your business takes off?

>>134820771
There is no need for a free fuckin education charity, if education is already free...
You don't need to threaten anyone to pay taxes here, because people are okay, they know that it is good for the economy to educate people.

>>134820922
>Most people get into debt to get educated in the US

Yeah and? Don't know if you know this, but education is run by the state in the US.

>>134798594
no, what he wants is for the laws to be decided by what's moral. in your lovely ancap paradise, a man can fuck his kids and his dog.

People who think there will be no government and a completely free market are as delusional as communists wanting a class-free society.

>>134821275
well calling someone delusional is not an argument.

Anyone who can imagine a slave-free society is delusional!!! HAHA I WIN!!! I guess the slavery stays guys.

>>134820825
because big businesses lobby the government for assurances on their bets. If corporations couldnt rely on state power to squash competition they would be out competed at every turn. Worse case scenario is nothing changes seeing as the corporations own the government you rely on to regulate them.

>>134821158

>Litterally no problem with getting in thousands of dollars of debt at 20 in the US, but still having to pay taxes so the government can bomb other countries

See what I did there ? You pay taxes but don't get good things in return like us. You just get "muh security" cuz you gotta pay the 600 billion dollar paycheck of your millitary , for whatever threat fuck knows, since you already have the biggest army.

>>134821055
You're trying to maximize profit not output. Keep lowering your prices every time a small competitor comes in and eventually they'll fuck off.

In a business where huge capital investment is required just to start (airlines, computer manufacturers, industrial equipment) no one is going to pour dicktons worth of money just to earn 0 profit when the incumbent lowers his price.

>>134797334
people naturally form groups and seek leaders. that is our nature you nigger. anarchy goes against our very nature. in your lovely ancap society, people will band together, form their own towns and communities, elect or otherwise decide leaders of their towns, make trade deals and defense alliances with other towns to defend against bandits, and eventually form new city states which through war and diplomacy will become countries once again.

how the fuck do you think countries formed in the first place, you stupid fucking nigger?

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>>134819551
>she's holding the flag upside down
dumb bitch

>>134821126
>good for the economy to educate people
Yeah we really need to have every single person educated enough to become a brain surgeon or a rocket scientist.

You are wrong. There is no education externality.

>>134821445
Where did you learn economics? What's your favorite econ textbook?

>>134821126
So are the faculty and administrators slaves then? Are the facilities personal slaves? how has the state made everything free if not by paying for it with its money?

And seeing as how the Swiss are such great people. Why not repeal whatever law would punish a hypothetical tax delinquent? There'd be no harm right? because everyone is paying taxes voluntarily. The actual law is just a formality.

market failures justify government intervention in the economy, that nonintervention leads to monopolies and stifled innovation, or that unregulated markets are economically unstable. They argue that markets do not always produce the best or most efficient outcome, that redistribution of wealth can improve economic health, and that humans involved in markets do not always act rationally.

libertarians currently have no method of dealing with problems like environmental degradation and natural resource depletion because of their rejection of regulation and collective control.

if political power were radically shifted to local authorities, parochial local interests would predominate at the expense of the whole, and that this would exacerbate current problems with collective action

If libertarianism was a good idea, wouldn't at least one country have tried it? Wouldn't there be at least one country, out of nearly two hundred, with minimal government, free trade, open borders, decriminalized drugs, no welfare state and no public education system?

>>134821376
Your ideology is a pipedream that won't happen ever, realistically. That was the point. Just like the endgame for communism.

>>134821421
>Litterally no problem with getting in thousands of dollars of debt at 20

Of course I do, which is why I want to remove government from education and student loan programs.

>>134801521
and what happens when those armies or defence contractors decide it'd be more profitable to turn on you?

what happens when the local police force decides to enslave the town?

>>134821126

>Implying people can't be gaslighted into thinking their own enslavement is actually an obligation to their enslavers.

Bootlicker.

>>134804086
and who's going to enforce the child's rights? to go onto someone's property and try and take their kid would be a violation of the NAP

>>134821523
this kills the ancap. hence no response

>>134821421
>you pay taxes but don't get good things in return
>you pay taxes but don't get good things in return
>you pay taxes but don't get good things in return
yeah. that's basically the crux of my argument

you dont get your stuff from taxes you get your stuff from your low regulation banking industry which has attracted many billions of dollars of other people's money into your country. The cruel joke behind all of your arguments is that Switzerland's success is mainly due to deregulation and not joining foreign wars.
And yet here you are trying to argue against the advocates for those things.

>>134821421
>You pay taxes but don't get good things in return like us

Highly doubtful, since you spend >50 million CHF per km of road. But hey if you have any statistics to prove your assertions, go for it. It would be the first efficient (in terms of money) government system in the history of the world.

>>134820106
yes they are. your brain is programmed from birth to see certain things as right and wrong.

Nah, ancap is pretty shitty. The government won't go away, they'll just privatize and take ownership of everything they already had in the first in the first place.

>>134821642
How can they be slaves if they litterally have chosen to be here, knowing their salary ? I don't get your point, desu.

How is it bad that government pays for education ? free education is bad for the economy ?

>>134821742
still not an argument. I don't know where you learned how to reason, but just asserting random stuff is not really doing anything to contribute to the conversation.

>Getting rid of slavery is a pipe dream.

Capitalism without a state has never been a thing.

As feudalism gave way the state along with capitalism replaced it.

>>134821645
>If libertarianism was a good idea, wouldn't at least one country have tried it? Wouldn't there be at least one country, out of nearly two hundred, with minimal government, free trade, open borders, decriminalized drugs, no welfare state and no public education system?

Your country tried it, and became the most succesfull country on the planet, in the shortest amount of time in recorded history. Not such a bad idea to go back to more of it?

>>134821807

So the University is gonna just gonna give you free education if no government ? Do you know how much it costs for the university to educate a single person ?

>>134822259
try address any of these posts

>>134821523
>>134821810
>>134821189
>>134821937

>>134822379
america was never libertarian. it was a lot smaller state than now but nowhere near libertarian even right at the start.

>>134822326
Sure it was, many such examples throughout history. One of which is a little place called Pennsylvania, perhaps you heard of it.

However, even if your false assertion were true.... so what? That doesn't tell us anything when it comes to morality or correctness of the arguments.

>A society without slaves has never been tried before, so I guess the slavery stays.

>>134821645
>environmental degradation and natural resource depletion because of their rejection of regulation and collective control.
Privatize the oceans. Privatize the forests. Privatize the endangered species. If we had private roads, we could sue the road companies for environmental damages, which would be much easier than suing every human on the planet.
>>134821645
>If libertarianism was a good idea, wouldn't at least one country have tried it?
The HRE and the pre-civil war US were both radically libertarian by your standards. Both were conquered by jewish bankers.

>>134822379
That's not anarcho capitalism. We were quite expansionist and isolationist after we carved out our borders.

And no it did not work out. The Wild West was more like anarcho capitalism and it was utter hell for people.

If anything it proves ancap makes people suffer just as much as communism.

>>134821523

> people naturally seek a higher power to save them from their own personal failings.

Well then those people can fuck off or die.

Explain to me how this is an argument against a free society?

>>134797334
>entry level econ

>>134822064
So you're basically accepting that taxes are not the problem. It's basically what the government does with it that is. Our country thrived because it didn't need to wage wars and tried to make friends with everyone, aka less spending. And we still have mandatory military service.

>>134822576
You'd have to privatize air as well.

The fact that you don't see how much of a logistic and legal nightmare any of that would be just shows how infantile your position is.

>>134822499
Closest there ever was, and it worked out pretty nicely. Imagine what America v2.0 could do.

>>134822171
no it's not, you think stoning a woman violently to death is bad muslims don't

You think cooking a dog alive is bad the Chinese don't

Ancient Greeks threw babies off cliffs and Norse vikings pillaged and raped to go to their heaven

>>134821445
but you cant enact this strategy without having the highest output. What you described is already a thing that happens all the time. Literally every item sold in wal-mart is the price it is because high volume producers use their massive productivity to undersell their competitors. You cant sell a jar of pickles for 45 cents unless you make a million a day. and the reason why the prices at walmart dont jump between fuck-you-cheap to fuck-you-expensive every other week is because the moment you raise your prices you increase the return on investment on your competitors. If pickles sell for 500 bucks a jar then it's plenty worth it to spend millions on a new canning facility.
So what are you going to do? Lower your prices again so they go out of business? For how long? How long are you going to raise your prices afterward? How long does it take for someone else to muscle into your business?
BTW the profit margins for huge capital restricting products is actually very small. You don't go into the 747 business to become a billionaire despot. you sell 49 cent hamburgers to do that.

>>134822649
it's not those people you dumb fuck. it's everyone. we are social creatures. we travel in packs. we always have even since before we were humans.

anarchy will never work because states will always form. how THE FUCK do you think states formed in the first place, you stupid fucking subnigger?

>>134808297

Don't forget the non whites

Guess which demographic will struggle under a NAP society? You guessed it, every single non white.

>>134821523
free association is a pillar of ancap. People can form into whatever group they want they just cant conscript me into that group and force me to live by its rules.

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>>134822612

>The Wild West was more like anarcho capitalism and it was utter hell for people.

Everything was utter hell for most people up until very very recently. People progressed faster in the U.S. than anywhere else in the world.

So that's not a logical argument, because the fact is that on average the so-called "wild" west had more opportunity than everywhere else relatively speaking.

>>134822140
We're in the middle of mountains, does that explain how does that cost so much ?

>>134822864

There is a difference between being a social creature, and irrational CULT behaviour.

>>134822932
but when those people willingly form a nice little city-state together, and willingly form an army, and then go ahead and rob and enslave all the shitty independent "FREE" ancap retards. what then? how will your NAP magically prevent them from forcing you to live by their rules?

HOW THE FUCK DO YOU THINK COUNTRIES FORMED IRL IN THE FIRST PLACE?

>>134823030
>very recently

oh. you mean when we developed world governments that have almost total power over the entire world?

Sorry that's not ancap. That's a statist argument.

Look to Africa if you want to see a modern day libertarian state.

>>134823137
what's cult-like about banding together and forming a tribe? that's natural behaviour for humans and most apes. and when that tribe decides they'll rape and pillage all you retards living out by yourself, the NAP won't save you.

>>134823043
It's may be not the best cost-efficient way to do it, but at least it is DONE.

and having a national postal service, aka only one company can deliver letters, is not the best cost-efficient thing, but we are sure that every part of the country is desserved, that's all we need.

>>134822392
why does it have to be free?!?! Why are you so fucking stingy that you dont think a quality education is worth the investment? Would you sneer in disdain if your government only covered 90% of the tuition? would that be too much?
Oh but the poor poor street urchins who plague switzerland with literally 0.000 francs wont be able to pay the tuition! THE INHUMANITY!!!


You're not a saint for being generous with other people's money.

>>134797334
ever notice how most ancaps live with their mothers?

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>>134822392
>Do you know how much it costs for the university to educate a single person

Of course not, nobody does (and anyone who claims otherwise is lying). Because the government is subsidizing loans and tuitions and there is no possible way of knowing how much a university really costs. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_calculation_problem

>So the University is gonna just gonna give you free education if no government

Never claimed that, so I see no point in arguing this. Afaik there isn't a free university anywhere in the world (outside of online courses), and there wasn't one in the history of mankind.

However, schooling were pretty cheap before government involvement. People in the 19th and 20th century in the US had higher literacy rates than today.

>>134823170

> how do you think countries formed in the first place

You confuse the distinction between nation and state, just because states formed doesn't mean it was because it was the rational thing to do.

The reason states formed rather than free nations, is because human beings are still psychologically scarred from the brutal process of evolution. The human race is collectively suffering from a kind of stockholm syndrome, there is effectively no difference between a worship of a king or queen and worship in the power of the state. Both are an attempt to skirt the harsh reality of existence itself, and the personal responsibility that comes with the gift of life.

>>134823316
yeah exactly. with nothing nationalised, then if a friend you want to send a letter to is in a place that mightn't be profitable to deliver to, you can't send him letters.

but more importantly, it'd mean shit like internet and telephone lines would never have reached most of the countryside as extending miles and miles of lines just to serve a handful of people isn't cost-effective or profitable. which means all the retard ancaps wouldn't be able to browse 4chan and bother us in their wonderful paradise. i wonder how much they'd like it then

>>134823476
Tribalists.

They have not made the evolution to collectivism, the natural progression of Tribalism.

Their method of thinking is quite literally infantile.

>>134822612
the problems of the old west were caused by a lack of telecommunication, infrastructure, and abundance of basic necessities. We have the technology to live civilly without a 3-1 population ratio of slaves or the constant threat of state violence.

>>134823199

> it was a mere coincidence that the largest nation with the weakest government fostered the most prosperous people.

t. fundamentalist statist bootlicker

>>134823517
what the fuck is a free nation by your definition? sounds like a self-contradiction.

>The reason states formed rather than free nations, is because human beings are still psychologically scarred from the brutal process of evolution.
oh and thanks for admitting that your retarded dream utopia goes against all human nature.

>>134823676
>constant threat of state violence.

As opposed to your neighbor wanting your daughter and your land and thus killing you and taking them.

>>134822728
there's not enough world for every nation on earth to exploit an entire planet's worth of finances to pay for its gibs. Taxation is theft. It's immoral on its own. It's worse when it funds more immoral acts.

>>134797334
>entry level econ textbook
This is where ancaps begin and end

>>134823362
It has to be free because it's litterally the best thing you can give to poor people, to get out of poverty. And when they will get out of poverty, they will not be bitching like you about the taxes they pay, because the same taxes helped them.
In fact, here the education is not even 100% free, you still have to pay 700-ish CHF per semester from your pocket, but it is considered next to nothing here. Without government help, you would pay like 15 000CHF per semester, aka 30 000 per year. Free education is one of the best investment in society that government can do with your taxes. And the quality is VERY GOOD.

>>134822779
air is already privatized. When you own porperty you own a portion of the space above it.
If someone builds a fart factory next door and their ass gas gets into your air you can, or could before the EPA, over it.

>>134823476
>>134823476
>>134823476

We used to because ancap was literally a career death sentence but now most of us are crypto millionaires. Have fun with your toilet paper money faggot.

>>134823719

You posted the graph yourself

Look. Just look at your graph. The death rates DRASTICALLY decline the more globalism takes hold.

Your graph proves my point.

Your insistence on using logical fallacy to win your arguments just shows how much of a child you are.

>>134823362
Quality education costs nothing, I barely visited my lectures and get most shit from the internet and libraries. Wrote good marks in my exams, too. The education industry is a scam.

>>134815410
>Muh government is holding muh people down
>Calls other people nigger

>>134823170
>>134801475

>>134810964

They won't acknowledge it.

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>>134797334
Is it a coincidence that the only argument ancaps ever make is "everyone against me is economically illiterate"? Tell us more about Bastiat's broken window fallacy, btw.

>>134823774
>your retarded dream utopia goes against all human nature

Are you seriously telling me that liberty is against human nature? Wow, i can't even begin to imagine what kind of indoctrination you have gone through.

>>134811306
>to you in the name of charity, go ahead, by all means

Cucks that do it, should unironically be killed.

>>134823821
Taxation is good when it funds the common good. And I can't say that 100% of the taxes we're paying here are good spended in every penny, but we're damn sure that it's worth it, because we aren't individualists like in the US.

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>>134801010
Saga age Iceland nigga

>>134823908
you're wrong.
The best thing you can give poor people is free enterprise. And I love how you know the mind of every person in switzerland. I'm not surprised you're all linked together like the borg.

so if it's so great why does the swiss government have to threaten people to do it?

>>134824266
Yes it is.

It is a natural human trait to collectivize.

We see this throughout history.

Never has human kind devolved from statehood to anarchy. It has always been from anarchy to statehood.

Your ideology is infantile and illogical.

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>>134824266
>Are you seriously telling me that liberty is against human nature?
lol yes, are you historically illiterate on top of economically illiterate?

>>134824184
corporate welfare and the marriage of big government and big business is a central criticism of the state held by ancaps.

>>134823309

Because we're not fucking subhuman spearchuckers ok? Tribal behaviour is super basic and it doesn't scale up, it just turns into irrational crabs-in-a-bucket nonsense. Modern civilization can only function on voluntary relationships operating on a system contractual negotiation, and GASLIGHTING CHILDREN into believing the state is a moral institution is not exactly how I would define a voluntary relationship.

Ancapism = Chaos theory (hidden order)... e.g. flock of birds, school of fish.
Statism = Cult behaviour, doctrine of fear, god complex (central planning).

>>134824266
Liberty is to ancaps what sharin or equality is to communists. You'rejust hijiacking important values to get propaganda for your ideology.