I've never heard a good argument against libertarian municipalism.

this is /pol/
no one here reads books and has any idea what the hell you're even talking about dude

shes a woman and looks kinda like a commie so fuck her

>>134625278
Where do you want to live ? Switzerland or Rojava ?

>>134627225
her name is emma goldman, so good on you for using context clues and assuming she's a leftist.

She has nothing to do with Bookchin's communalism, though.

You don't need to read to know about Rojava, but, shit, you're right, I should've set the bar lower.

>>134627364
it's almost like the human development realized by citizens of a given country/region is correlated with the socioeconomic and geopolitical circumstances of that country/region.

>>134627371
right, right -- totally
alright, okay

Bookchin Communalism, yeah.
Okay, that don't sound good
naw
fuck that

Emma Goldman, that also doesn't sound good
damn

>>134627493
everything is bad

>>134627565
which system do you think will maximize my access to free shit and require as little effort on my part as possible?

>>134627648
in a vacuum? communalism

w/r/t institutional dysfunction as we know it? totally dependent on your socioeconomic/ethnic/regional background

>>134627772
will implementing communalism require piggie-backing off of the social-justice mindfuck train or can it be reasonably accomplished by way of the current societal systems we have in place?

>>134627909
implementing any large-scale, sweeping reform is reliant upon dual power--working internally and externally to undermine established arrangements of power.

Such can be accomplished only through what Gramsci referred to as ingrained ideological hegemony, which is to say that it's critical to take advantage of ingroup antagonism, like that forwarded by SJW communities, even if their agendas aren't consistent with given political aims.

In other words, SJW communities and their demographic components are useful in bringing about change in the same way that rousing other in-group communities contributes to political upheaval.

>>134628317
Consider me a blank slate.
Give me the 3-5 books in your repertoire that you consider foundational to the basic gestalt of your shit.
Not joking anon, I'll read them -- I have a several months of NEETing left.

>>134625278
Never heard a good argument for it. And I excitedly wait to see how long it takes you to realize Rojava isn't true communism.

>>134628571
It'd be my pleasure.

murray bookchin - the ecology of freedom
philip mirowski - never let a serious crisis go to waste
david harvey - enigma of capital
stephen kinzer - overthrow

bonus: eric hobsbawm's 4-part series on historic development

easy bonus: mark fisher - capitalist realism (less than 100 pages)

>>134628818
what's our definition of "true communism"?

>>134625278
>>134627225
She's a Jew AND a Commie.

>>134629131
does that turn you on?

>>134628571
Also, to play off of your phrasing, if you've ever heard of steven pinker's book the blank slate, then consider rejecting its pseudoscientific analysis in favor of douglas p. fry's beyond war and brian r. ferguson's wealth of work w/ emphasis on his old paper "the blood of the leviathan"

>>134629130
If it calls itself socialist or communist and it works then it's real, if it doesn't work it's fake. Unfortunately nobodie's seemingly been able to unravel the mysteries of true communism yet.

>>134629658
geopolitical hegemony directs political prospects

>>134629790
So you already got your excuse lined up for when Rojava explodes, good.

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>>134625278
>libertarian municipalism
What the hell even is that? And why should I want it? And how is it better than Distributism?

>>134629924
>excuse

if you reject historical materialism, then what heuristics do you employ to make sense of history?

>>134629957
efficacy; consistency; etc

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>>134630153
Please elaborate, I still have no idea what your ideology is, nor why I should trust it when the only example of it is apparently Rojava.

>>134630296
No one's telling you to trust this, that, or the other.

When I bring up Rojava, I'm referring to the plight of more than 8 million people who've organized in such a way that can be seen as preferable relative to, say, neoliberalism--without delving into the externalities of existing in a regional context of which hegemonic empire encroaches upon

>>134630114
I read book and think with brain.

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>>134630561
I'm asking you to educate me, all I know about Rojava is that it's a democratic semi-socialistic pseudo-state, I don't know the details of how it works or how libertarian municipalism is supposed to work.

>>134630594
in such a way that accounts for historic development, say, beyond social contract theory?

>>134630651
g o o g l e

b o o k c h i in

I'm not saying this to insult you

>>134630850
Says a lot when you can't actually summarize any of your views, my man.

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>>134630850
But like, is there a TLDR version you can give me? You did start the thread after all, and I really don't feel like diving into depth on some special snowflake ideology that no one's heard of.

>>134630907
is that your takeaway?

as if offering references indicates I can't answer direct questions?

Ask shit, friendo.

>>134630951
I get that you don't like me right off the bat, but you get how referring to millions as special snowflakes is dumb, right?

TL;dr: free association and mutual aid

>>134627439
So, whites and freedom of association.

>>134631382
such are relevant to any analysis of ethnicity and socioeconomic background in relation to power politics...

>>134631595
I agree, the formation of any relevant modern society involves either white conquest/reformation or white maintenance. There's a reason why all migrants flock to white nations.

crush the urbanite

>>134631742
you get how it's dumb to give unwarranted credence to a contemporary ethnic group w/r/t the historical dynamics of society, right?

>>134630803
Darwinism

Now fuck off

>>134631925
>Buh muh white superiority

Yeah its not like sumerians and the chines where civilised thousands of years before the rise of rome/greece

>>134631925
Precisely the opposite is true. Freedom of association, freedom of religion, freedom of consciousness, free markets, free elections/democracies, separation of church/state, etc. all find their origins/inspirations in Europe. It is as warranted as can be. "White Europeans" aren't one ethnic group. They are Greeks, Spaniards, Italians, British, French, and German people.

>>134631925
>historical dynamics of society

Gas yourself

>>134632045
you're not very good at contextualizing epochs of human history, are you?

Democracy fucking sucks. It's mob rule. I hate my neighborhood. Democratic "assemblies" would be hell.

>>134632132
Le ebin buzzwords

Marxist historiography was a mistake.

>>134632045
Define civilization. I would prefer to live under Roman law than in a Sumerian state. The two are different time periods, anyways. Chinese were no inconsequential, nor were the Persians who inherited/conquered the land after the Sumerians. But you cannot compare them to the civilizational explosion of Europe.
There is a reason why Spanish, Portuguese, and English are widely spoke.

>>134632050
yes, we can trace disparate origins of cultural hegemony

you get a gold star, though you don't really deserve it as your response relies on sycophancy for european essentialism in place of white essentialism, which is comparatively dumb

>>134632206
>reactionary online communities were a mistake

Nah, I'm appreciative because those who possess relevant faculties will move beyond groupthink

>>134632271
>disparate origins
European, primarily.
>for european essentialism in place of white essentialism
>for european essentialism in place of european essentialism
ftfy

>>134632271
>disparate origins of cultural hegemony
>Implying it is disparate when it is all found in Europe, especially when there is a clear genealogy of ideas stemming from the Greeks all the way to whitey CurrentYearTM

>>134632448
>>134632493

adorable obsession, tell me more about your political ideals and how they relate to the conflation of civil development w/ the genealogy of intellectual traditions that you only loosely identify with because of ethnic pseudo-comradery

>>134625278
Requires way too many meetings, which becomes monotonous for even the most masochistic local tyrant larpers.
Inefficient, basically you end up with a thousand Stalins in each district or municipality.
Democracy doesn't teach any of the basics of political philosophy, so all of the participants are generally unqualified. Degeneracy is the only possible outcome.

>>134632689
>tell me more about your political ideals
Done no such thing, but keep attacking my motivation in order to invalidate the points.
>how they relate to the conflation of civil development w/ the genealogy of intellectual traditions
I never went so far as to claim white might, but if you insist...
>ethnic pseudo-comradery
http://jasss.soc.surrey.ac.uk/16/3/7.html

>>134632722
holy shit, your realization of politics is totalitarian demagogues larping

...makes sense

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>2017
>An economy with no markets
>Direct democracy
>Social ecology
We must bomb those kurds out of their nonsense and bring to them representative democracy and markets, just like God intended!

>>134632866
ty for confirmation

>>134632925
you, I like you

bombs are the only way, Posadism 2020

>>134632942
>these "arguments"
Anon, I...

>>134632354
Cringe dude. I suppose you failed to realize that Marxist historiography all stems from these two bearded guys, one of whom was a fucking NEET bum, and the other one who was a trustfund babby, who decided that all left wing thinkers that came before them were just a bunch of ideologues, and claimed that their fucking stupid system was SCIENCE, and thus was not IDEOLOGY (German Ideology my nigga).

SInce then you have had these worthless drones (like you) trying to prove that Karl Marx was right, while it is more likely that Groucho Marx had a better model of historical development than Marx ever had.

Since RealCommunism has proven to be a pathetic failure every time it has been tried, you faggots decided to focus on KULTUR instead, taking notes from Pozzed faggots like Foucault (Foucault spent many evenings in the San Francisco gay scene, frequenting sado-masochistic bathhouses, engaging in unprotected sex), and postmodern retards who deny reality like Baudrillard (f.e. La Guerre du Golfe n'a pas eu lieu).

Now all you marxist cunts can do is whinge on the internet about CapitalismTM and how it is about to end anytime soon. All the while the most diehard communists the world has ever known (East Asian chinks, in particular Vietnamese, Chinese and Cambodians) are really developing their societies after a stint of Maoism (which your retarded Marxcunt professors probably fervently believed in in the 1970s), which left millions dead, and stunted economic development and cultural development for decades. To you cultural development is when a faggot get pozzed in his bum and then he writes some fanfiction about how fags like him are always suppressed because MADNESS, not just because Foucault tripped on too much acid and was pozzed.

Tl;dr: go get fucked in the ass, kid, get aids and die

>>134633057
does it actually bother you that you aren't worth converting?

>>134629957
Because instead of 3 acres you have the right to 3 meetings a day.

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>>134633203
What good do these meetings do me? I prefer systems where you don't rely on the intelligence and goodwill of others for you own success.

>>134632050
And all are a disaster.

>>134632070
Someone discusses history and you automatically think it is marxism. Are you retarded?

>>134633111
I appreciate your resolve.

as for your actual points, I'm being generous in referring to them as such because I'm working with incoherence. You reject PoMo thought (more power to you), so what?

Glad to have given you this opportunity to "whinge" about your interpretation of this or that sect of leftist politics. I'm gonna go out on a limb and assume that you took a course or two and didn't appreciate the prof's interpretation of your insights. Given that they're steeped in racism, I say good riddance.

Then again, you can string together grammatically coherent sentences, which is more than enough to fit in here, eh?

let's leave it at your death toll masturbation.

>>134632900
wot

>>134633468
exactly.

somebody tell peter turchin that he's a marxist, it'll set him straight.

>>134633468
Of course not. But it is clear if you actually cared to read what American Burger posted throughout the thread, that he is a Marxist.

>Rojava
>"if you reject historical materialism, then what heuristics do you employ to make sense of history?"
>"geopolitical hegemony directs political prospects"

This is all straight from the Gramsci Record

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonio_Gramsci

>>134633111
Rather than relying on buzzwords (which is oh so wrong when Leftists do it) can you explain what is wrong with the Marxist philosophy of history?

>>134633556
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5chlIdxAig

>>134633721
>>134633711

>>134633667
dude, I invoked gramsci early on

you're the sherlock holmes of pillowtalk the night after the role-playing event

>>134632925
>An economy with no markets

"The weapons markets were born out of necessity in the 1990s. The KRG has an ambiguous status as non-state entity with no rights to purchase arms in international markets. Therefore, these markets were set up partly to arm the peshmerga by bringing in arms illegally from the neighboring countries. "The KRG has failed to regulate this sector properly,” said Ismail, whose parliamentary security committee has not convened since late 2015 due to political disputes between the parties."

http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2017/05/gun-violence-iraq-kurdistan.html

Sounds more like ANCAP paradise to me. Are all Marxists as dim-witted as you?

>>134633867
>invoked Gramsci
Sounds about right. You people are cargo-cultists

>>134634132

https://www.amazon.com/Studies-Mutualist-Political-Economy-Carson/dp/1419658697

brings us back to the direction of markets by way of geopolitical hegemony, no?

>>134633667
You realise that he is just not dismissing it ouright, and that Gramsci (along with the Frankfurt School) is actually a major influence on the New Right, right?

Which by extension means that the Alt-Right is just as marxist.

Reality is a little more complex. Often intellectuals will take influence from philosophical opponents, or at least consider their arguments to learn from them.

Darwinism is similarly materialistic, and capitalism relies on the idea that all relations are economic-based; as well, historical progress is determined by economic contracts (which ideologically disappear the classes). So in reality it is not that different from Marxism.

One can use a materialist argument in one case while not being a historical materialist. Insisting that it does makes you a materialist reductionist.

>>134634195

>too dumb to follow thread

tell me more about your views

>>134633721
Wow, a retarded circular argument which could be used just as well against capitalists...
And a non sequitur.

>>134633146
Still not a valid response.

>>134634540
you must be molineux' even dumber protege

>>134634463
>>134633721
>>134634517


>tfw to intelligent 2 build a working economy

>>134634413
I made a thread about Angela Nagle's Kill All Normies but no one was interested.

Thanks for adding a bit of context.

>>134634768
mmhmm, keep it up buddy, you'll get there

>>134634801
>>134634971

here I am, getting under the skin of dipshits, what more could one ask for?

>>134634413
>historical progress
>Teleology
Into the trash it goes

You're the kind of guy who uses that bastardized quote by Obama in conversations

Obama:
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TnqwQi9EFks

Trump:
>Sad!

>>134635050

>historical progress

read: nonlinear change

adjust accordingly

>>134635045
>getting under the skin of dipshits
Now fetch me my latte, you philosophy major turned Starcucks wageslave

>>134635244
lol, you drink latttes at starbucks in your self-aggrandizing fantasies

>>134635321
It is part of my philosophy of humiliation

>>134635420
revel in it 'til you're reduced to self-reflection

>>134628317
Frankly you shouldn't be on /pol/ with anything worthwhile, /pol/ is supposed to be shit and making it not-shit legitimizes the nazis

But you're wrong, on an obvious everyday basis "ingroup antagonism" as you call it is a powerful tool for the ruling class to keep those below them divided and unable to effect change.

>>134629957
>And how is it better than Distributism?
Because it's high-quality Jew bullshit, not some trash-tier papist garbage, tortured, predetermined ramblings masquerading as thought which is literally all that child-molesting cult ever came up with ever

>>134635771
granted.

Nah, though, that ingroup antagonism can function as an opiate of the masses in no way undermines its utility.

>>134635990
Actually I think it does.

>>134636056

Let me clarify; that it can doesn't negate its utility.

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>>134635771
>>134635990
>>134636056
>>134636170

>>134627225
Reddit pls go

>>134636434
stragglers like you moaning means this shit has run its course, right?

>>134636735
You need to book another appointment with your psychoanalyst

>>134637107
I just meet strangers for anonymous sex and then radicalize them in bed afterwards

re: pillowtalk

you down?