Is the retail apocalypse a clear sign that the middle class is

Yes. Consumers are maxed out on their credit cards so they can't buy more shit.

>>134542165
No. There's a clear link between online shopping and the death of malls.

>>134542165
Not that the middle class is dying; just a side effect of the internet and online shopping. Who the fuck goes to malls when you can search through things infinitely faster from the comfort of your own home? Society is changing fast, malls have always been shit anyway.

>>134542165
>Online shopping is a smaller factor
No it isn't

I order everything from amazon now. Why would I go to where all the niggers hangout?

>>134542165
malls died because of...

walmart

teen girls don't hang out at places anymore other than each other's houses, they hang out via phone and online.

women and ten girls not wanting to hang at the mall but rather to shop walked around to various stores to "browse". you can "browse" for anything on amazon now.

teen boys and men don't want to wander around inside a mall to find the shop they want. most want somewhere that they can drive right up to.

>>134542517
Online shopping accounts for about $400 billion in sales annually while regular retailers account for over $20 trillion in sales annually.

>>134542165
malls kinda suck dick anyway

>>134542165
The death of malls has been happening for a decade now. Dead malls litter the country and the only way to save a mall is to adapt. I've seen a few malls add a movie theater, car dealership, attached stores like Walmart, bumper cars, bowling ally, and/or other activity games.

Odds are small retails stores will most likely go under and malls need to adapt to bring people in or die. Simple as that.

Online shopping is half of the problem in the states. The other half is large scale black mob violence.

The Mall of American banned ferals without parents with them.

>>134542701
>teen boys and men don't want to wander around inside a mall to find the shop they want. most want somewhere that they can drive right up to.
eh- we used to wander around the mall to find girls. i guess you can do that online now too

>>134542304
This. It's actually easier to find what you want online and delivery is either free or dirt cheap + you can return stuff you don't like free of charge. Some businesses, like fast fashion stores have adapted so they offer free delivery to their local stores etc - most other merchants will die

>>134542165

We have malls dying, yet we're building high schools and junior highs all the time. Just renovate the failing malls into high schools. You get a cheap well-located high school and you don't have the blight in the community.

Same is happening to my local mall. Why? Because large groups of non-whites amass there daily, not to buy anything, but to escape their cramped, moldy and pest filled apartments.

>>134542701

Teenage niggers kill malls. That's it.

>>134542165
Online shopping is a huge factor, are you fucking retarded?

>>134544839
That's actually pretty damn good idea.

>>134544904
Pests can't escape pests.

Malls in my city in the UK went upmarket. not extreme high end, but actual fashion labels and so on.

I think the part of my city getting apoclypsed is the main city centre Street. It is mostly going down market.

>>134544934
We don't have black or arabs (>>134544904), yet malls would close if they didn't have movie theatres, bowling alleys, cafes, free concert/sale nights, etc

>>134545137

Thanks I'm a worthless subgenius who has brilliant ideas that have no outlet other than a Fijian underwater basket-weaving forum

The Internet does more harm than good. It should be regulated and only available for businessmen and places of education. Prove me wrong.
>Protip: you can't

>>134542165
The blood of the dead mall is on bezos's hands

>>134545321
The burden of proof is on you. You're the one trying to restrict the freedom of others so you better have some damn good reason for doing so.

>>134545296

Yeah and you also don't have money

>>134545413
>muh freedumbs

>>134542165
You have smaller companies 50 years ago. The economy gets globalized, big companies get bigger and expand to the point where no one else can compete. It is inevitable. The bigger a company gets the less they are taxed, the less restrictions are placed on them. Look at the size of Google and Apple. Free market capitalism is awesome. The days of Microsoft having anti trust lawsuits against them is long gone. Look at Mark Zuckerberg's empire. He pretty much owns the thoughts of multiple generations. Same with YouTube. The vast majority of content presented to people in the form of news, or entertainment, is owned by a select few people with an agenda. All these YouTube wars between various people, it is still a war in the context of a private organization. Supply and demand is an immutable law of a large group of people. Yes it will be used to influence people, yes it will have an agenda. Turn off your fucking smartphone, and talk to other people in real life. That's the only way we combat this shit.

>>134545441

To be honest I'd rather be him.
Being poor and having your own countrymen is better than being "rich" and infested with niggers, muslims and kikes.

>>134545757
Fuck off Franz. If you want my internet you're only getting if off my cold dead hands.

>>134543303
Nice contribution Nazi faggot.

>>134545296
Here all the malls went upmarket (higher quality stores, even some luxury stores) yet the usual people that hang out there are
>niggers
>rock bottom lower class junkies and alcoholics
>albanian teen gangs fucking around beating up each other

And they wonder why people buy online.

>>134542165
>Online shopping is a smaller factor
what does this even mean?

>>134542992
Most of that is groceries.

>>134542165
>Tfw you will never go to the mall and visit a C.D. shop again.

>>134542165
Malls died for the same reason their predecessors (the open air markets) died: Niggers. White people ran so far from the nogs they wound up inside their house buying online. It's less about convenience than about avoiding cultural enrichment.

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>>134545849
>he will die for internet access
And people wonder why the west is a joke

Idk you must all live in niggerville. My local mall is all upscale shops and it's packed all the time.

>>134545441
>you also don't have money
Which isn't true desu. Anyway, these days people only go to malls to pick up clothes (which they often order online) or to the cinema/bowling/cart racing/shit like that

In Croatia you can even order groceries online and have them delivered to your address

>>134545910
Malls will be perfect concentration camps once WW3 starts lel

>>134545321

nice try globalist

the internet is the last bastion of freedom

>>134546411
Yeah it's like everything with a number of shops and a lot of traffic that is accessible by public transport magically attracts those people.
>malls
>larger train stations, especially central station
all of the get swarmed by trash. Zurich mainstation meeting point is pretty much lil somalia, a ever growing group of them sitting there from 6 till 23:00 loitering next to the public pay phones all day every day.

>>134546178
>he will let the government take away his rights without fighting back
This is the real reason the west is fucked. Too many betas running around thinking they're hot shit.

>>134545979
Doubt it. Most people only spend 10-20% of their income on food.

>>134547597
Total groceries sale, 5+ trillion.

Another big chunk is large appliance.

>>134547494
>internet is a right
How about you realize internet is the main income of degenerate bullshit. It has it good sides, no doubt, but the bad outweighs the good.
I'm not against freedom either, but not I'm not into the unrestricted "um y u care about someone else business even if it infests the whole neighborhood" type of freedom many faggots on this site seem to defend.
But sometimes, truth is way better than freedom, and truth has to go tyrannical from time to time.

>>134547800
So 5 trillion out of 20 trillion is now most. Ok then. In any case the online market is tiny compared to ordinary stores.

>>134547380
>Zurich mainstation meeting point is pretty much lil somalia
In Zagreb we have some gypos around the train station, but the cops are always somewhere around so these fuckers can't beg or sell their shit. In summer, it's mostly young Euros waiting for a train, lounging around the train station/nearby parks, etc

I guess we were "lucky" to miss out on the whole immigration thing ("lucky" because we give no gibs/have no money, and we didn't want them here so we just pushed them up North)

Niggers go to malls.

>>134547862
>lets let the government decide what is the truth
Are you mentally deficient or something? What is wrong with your head that you think this is a good idea?
>How about you realize internet is the main income of degenerate bullshit.
That's just like your opinion man. Sexual liberation and all around slutting predates the internet and so does faggotry.

>>134547975
Total us retail sales is around 5 trillion anon. 20 trillion is world wide.

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>>134542165
Yes, middle class is dead

Malls are dying, but what about the shopping centers anchors by big box retailers that are usually nearby? Those places seem like they're better at withstanding any sort of downturns or major changes.

>>134544839
This is exactly what Austin Community College did with the dead Highland Mall, they renovated it into a new campus and leased the remaining space to a web hosting company.

>>134548265
Where the fuck did I say that the gov should decide the truth? You're the mentally deficient one here it seems.
I know internet predates sexual liberation, but the internet only intensified its effects massively and allowed for more spread of it, add to it the already massively individualistic and narcissistic culture and you will get a recipe for disaster.

>>134548743
So what is your suggestion then? The original guy at least had a clear stance of "regulate it". You seem to want "truth" instead of "freedom" but your way of achieving this is what exactly?

>>134548009
I liked the huge park right infront of the station in Zagreb. Was there last summer and arrived from Budapest by train, arrived at the exact same time a concert started there. Was amazing. Loved your city!

Not Thai btw, half Spanish half Dutch on holidays here.

>>134549111
I am for regulation too, but also anonymization and removal of unanonymous social media.
As I stated before, the internet has its good sides, and I only want to intensify them through regulation and removal of disgusting filth that spawns on it.

With truth I meant e.g.:
>Man needs control
>Masses are easily swayed and manipulated

Sounds bad, right?
But that doesn't mean you can't control them to your advantage either, so it is best to direct them to less degenerate and narcissistic (browsing[aka porn/facebook...]) behaviour, both in the internet and real life.

Malls have become a place for latino and black people to idle, while middle class whtie moms and their suburban middle class kids now avoid them.

Mall managers know this but their hands are tied behind their back. What our ancestors knew 100 years ago is still true today regarding segregation.

This is the real reason malls are dying. Astroworld, a six flags amusement park in Houston closed 10 years ago after this problem made them unprofitable.

>>134550163
So if I want to interact with people online using my real name I should not be able to? Ok then.
And what the fuck is that shit with "controlling" the population. Sounds a heck of a lot like government using the internet to manipulate people into doing what they want.
Also I don't really get this obsession with general degeneracy. Let people be degenerate. It will only hurt them and their offspring giving you and your offspring a better chance. Social darwinism 101.

Lots of people are saying niggers killed the malls. That's true but niggers have been around longer than the modern mall. What happened is PC culture made it difficult to impossible to remove a nigger infestation from your mall. If some niggers caused trouble in a mall in Reagan's America, they were run off and possibly even roughed up a bit on the way out. If they complained, no one gave a shit. Jessie Jackson and Al Sharpton were acting on the national stage and couldn't be bothered with mall level shit back then.

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>>134550088
>I liked the huge park right infront of the station in Zagreb
Yeah, it's super comfy

>Not Thai btw
I wouldn't care if you were Thai desu, Croatia is full of Asian tourists

>>134551085
Loved that park yes. My hostel was nearby from there so I went there pretty much everyday with people I met there. Still in contact with the people who worked there as well.

>>134550608
Slippery slope is real, my friend. Everywhere.

Your desire to interact with your friends/etc online might seem innocent as first, just as it did with the founding of Facebook, but now look where we are now with social media and the bullshit it spawned. Just not worth it just for that little innocent desire.

And why the fuck is everything always government for you (((libertardians)))? It is knowledge that many civilizations shared and prospered with it (the controlling of population and its desires, for one), while still allowing a kind of freedom for really necessary things such as self-defense and other just rights. Religion, family, etc can control and smack your ass too for degenerate shit (like they should) you know?

Degeneracy is a virus and spreads to people with unchecked desires or just scum in general. It will always exist, yes, but you can marginalize and shame it or direct the degenerate desires ('casual sex no, marital sex yes' for example)
For a society and civilization to run you need healthy people whose desires are kept in check through various institutions of civilization.
Natural selection only works in nature, not in artificial man-made organizations.

Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other. - John Adams

I'll probably go to order fulfillment or localish delivery that Walmart is testing out now for associates to deliver items to customers after the shift ends.

>>134542638
>where all the niggers hangout
Somebody explain this to me because I've never understood it. Niggers always bitch about needing gibs and not having any money and yet I always see them hanging out at malls buying expensive shoes and clothes.

>>134542165
i only go to the malls when i want to fight teenagers

>>134542165
Online is a huge factor. Now I can buy things for MSRP or cheaper instead of dealing with mark-ups. It's so nice.

Also malls don't have enough appeal to pull you in most of the time. And they have those annoying booths in the middle where people ask you to buy stuff you would never want. And it can be crowded so you have to constantly dodge and weave your way around the crowds. I'd rather just order what I want online and use my time for something else.

>>134542165
No money to afford 200$ pair of jeans, standard jean price is 150$ new.

>tfw you goto value village/talize/good will in rich neighbourhoods and get top tier brands like armani for 10$

If you need some decent clothes goto a donation center in rich areas. They got good shit all the time.

>>134551836
Well they're not a monolith. Also, you must live in a rich-ish area.

>>134551688
Of course it's always government. There is no other way of insuring something doesn't happen. Good luck petitioning Facebook to remove real names without government. If you want to "direct" people into doing something you personally think is a good idea for them you need government. If you just let people interact freely you won't be able to direct anyone.
Natural selection works perfectly fine as long as people who have no money can't vote themselves other people's money. Shit worked perfectly fine till every western country embraced the "universal suffrage" meme.

>>134551567
When I travel, it's usually Airbnb - it's actually cheaper most of the time and I like my own peace. If you have time, visit Zagreb in December. The Christmas market is great

Only if you're a moron. Like everything else in human history, things are adapting to changing times. Apparently a lot of people thought things would sustain forever. Change is the only constant.

>>134552359
Will definitely check it out! I like hostels and the atmosphere around them, especially the people. I also loved the bar called "history" in Zagreb. Cheap drinks and a nightclub in the basement as well.

>>134542165
No, malls don't have anything worth buying so people get it somewhere else.

>>134552175
>defending niggers while hiding behind a confederate flag

Neck yourself, Reddit.

>>134552489
>I also loved the bar called "history" in Zagreb. Cheap drinks and a nightclub in the basement as well
That street is just cafes, bars, and restaurants. It's pretty popular with the locals as well. Tourism is a reason why people here aren't racist - we've only had good experiences with foreigners, none of that gibsmedat migrant shit

>>134548174

Niggers are the new market for things whites did 20 years ago. They go to the movie theaters and malls.

Every mall is the exact same collection of national chain stores. There is no feel for any kind of regional or local vibe.
The entrepreneur or mom & pop type stores cant compete with all the regulations, taxes, mandatory sick days, OSHA, local inspections etc....
The only option is to get some kind of franchise and let the army of lawyers at corporate do the rest.
When was the last time you saw a shoe repair, butcher shop, army-navy store or luncheonette?

>>134551836

Because they blow their gibs on shit at the mall. Then rob old people who still frequent the mall.

>>134553022
America is overrun with corporate chains. The market consolidation is exponential, but the things you talked about still exist, senpai

>>134542701
I got mallwarts at Walmart, then I sharted. So I grabbed some snack sized curly fries, and headed home in my rascal

>>134552355
I know shit like this won't happen without the help of a government, I just criticized the constant "muh gov is responsible for the most shit happening in my life", I hate my current gov too, so I can understand your position, but you can only marginalize its involvement in matters, not completely like Anarchists would like to believe.

People were able to direct people back then without internet, and as I stated, I want to anonymize it, not forbid organization of any kind (if you want to use your real name, just make sure your chat/site is atleast secure or you don't go too personal).
4chan is anonymous, yet people meet eachother irl through it.

I agree with the last point.

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>>134553516
completely remove it*...

>>134542165
We don't need new things every day! Every eeek,or every year.
> Fuck! look Martha the new model has differences, differences that I need because I see other monkeys wants it too.

>>134553022
>When was the last time you saw a shoe repair, butcher shop, army-navy store or luncheonette?

Yesterday. But because I live in California and not dead main street Mid-West or the South town.

Allowing WalMart to butt fuck your local economies and set up shopping monopolies is one of the dumbest things you can possibly do. Most parts of California for the past 10-15 years have actively been fighting to keep the WalJew out of communities.

>>134542165
The mall has shitty overpriced goods. The aurora mall in aurora colorado is overrun by niggers. So badly in fact they had to put a curfew on anyone under 18 unless accompanied by an adult along withthe police having a small station on site(fairly common now).
Malls suck.

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Does anyone here own stock?
I bought netflix at $150 a share and it keeps going up. Like I can't sell because it keeps making money.

>>134553787

30 shares of Amazon. Most have fallen into Long Term withholdings though.

>>134553604
lol so religion is supposed to save the citizens when authority becomes corrupt?

bahahahahahaha, nice try kiddo

>>134546178
GTFO my internetz.

>>134553983
Yes and it has before, many times.

>>134542165
Malls were always a terrible idea. Europe is better, where you can just walk around town and buy whatever you want. Something about malls just feels sterile, you're basically trapped there so you have to spend the day doing nothing but shopping.

>>134553516
Well then don't pretend it isn't government. This discussion went like so:
>you said you want X
>I said keep the government away from muh freedoms
>you said you don't want government to be involved
>I asked you what's your plan than
>you proceeded to describe a plan that involves government
>I pointed out that your plan involves government
>you said that you know your plan involves government
Again I don't know what justification you have for taking away people's freedom of being able to interact online using their real identity and personal information. The only reason you've stated is that is "accelerates degeneracy" but we can't really know that - it's just layman's observations. Even if it does accelerate degeneracy that is no grounds for outlawing something. If we ban everything that potentially accelerates degeneracy you would pretty quickly have to force women to wear burqas.

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>>134553935
Earnings next week for you!

>>134548419
jesus christ

>>134554172
i think malls came about because american cities are more spread out than european ones. you can't walk around to get everything you want in america.

>>134553710
How about "Disco Pants and Haircuts" ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIdGxR-aU6o

>>134542165
getting everything including groceries delivered has nothing to do with the middle class dying

Feels good man not having niggers in our shopping malls. Seems like every mall over here is getting polished up and booming. By niggers i don't mean people of colour im talking about the the degenerate lifeforms that didnt get beaten my there parents.

>>134542165
Mega corporations that sell a small selection of everything under one roof are to blame. This makes it harder for more specialised shops that sell a large variety of a single product to compete because people are cheap and lazy. The only way I can think of to combat it would be some modern version of the medieval guilds, where one guild cannot sell another guild's products. But of course that could very easily lead to price-fixing and other monopoly disadvantages, but you will get that anyway if Walmart and Amazon continue to dominate.

>>134542165
>Is the retail apocalypse a clear sign that the middle class is dying?

Nah middle class have Amazon and Alexa these days

>>134542165
I heard Japan's malls are still thriving. I talked to some one from Japan they said their malls have small convenience stores and butcher shops and makes their malls like an actual marketplace. Instead of letting retail apocalypse just happen, make use of it. Make mall spaces cheap make them so cheap anyone can make a mom and pop store inside of a mall.

>>134542165
yes

>>134554461
True, malls are just partly a symptom of that. A lot of cities in the Northeast aren't built like that though at least.

>>134548419
nixon fucked us so hard even the jews wanted him out.

>>134554690
Well that's true. Boston for example is the oldest city and still has a European street layout.

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>>134542165
Online shopping is no small factor.
When I worked for Amazon at ewr4 our shift was expected to pick 500,000 products. There are 2 picking departments and day and night shifts. Daily wearhouse output reaches 2 million products daily.

That's for 1 wearhouse.

There's a ton of youtube videos on dead malls. Really, I think it's a factor of A LOT of things
>older generations who care about a nickle are dying off. Cheap items are not what people want because the modern way of life does not care about depression era thrift.
>The "small town" main street shopping area always sucked, people just never had other options. The internet gave them options.
>The mall was not about buying, it was about shopping. It was made as a "daytrip" kind of situation.

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>>134554190
Even government has responsibilities, even the 1776 version of USA had responsibilities.

Just layman observation? Look into today's West and its "culture". Sexual degeneracy is just one part of many infesting and crumbling it from inside.
Are you actually dense or what? If you look into 4chan, people meet eachother irl through it, so it is still possible to organize anon. chatrooms with friends and colleagues and it is way more secure from retarded shitters.
It is ground for outlawing something, or do you want to risk an increasing crumbling society.

If you want freedom just for the sake of freedom is a retarded idea. Freedom needs to be regulated and restricted to some extend.
And yes, this is government matter, and a small government still has responsibilities, or else religion will step in and correct behaviour, like it should.

>>134548419
1965- 1 full time earner
2017- 1 full time earner 1 part time earner minimum
See we make the same!

>>134542165
also, centralization. urban centers get more packed every year. small towns and villages tend to get deserted.

>>134555377
As a 90s kid we went to that mall to hang out a little. Didn't really buy much. Shit was expensive.

>>134555400
it's a retarded idea*

>>134542381
I go yo malls? Or any actual store? It's 1000 times better to be able to see shit, test, try on in person than have to look online, order, pay shipping, wait, and maybe have to return. What a pain in my fucking chinkdick

Only poor and stupid people go to malls

>>134555377
many of the dying malls were built around department stores such as JC Penney or Sears. Department stores in general are an outdated concept, they die and the malls die with them.

>>134547347
Are you joking? The internet is what globalism came from. Internet had literally destroyed our society

>>134555939
In my area, only rich people go to the mall becsuse it's a fancy mall with expensive stores

Protip: you're a ag

>>134556281
globalism existed before the internet was in widespread use. Easy transportation and conventional communication made it possible.

Malls are dead because online shopping made malls largely obsolete, among other factors. Malls that survive either have a massive retail presence incl. clothing stores that can't be overestimated, a great location with enough wealthy people that are close to keep the mall active enough. There are a few factors, but let's go down the list:

>the internet
Internet is the biggest force behind mall dying. You can order from Amazon at 2AM, you can do it as a single focus, while watching TV, you can do it on your phone while in bed. Online forces all online merchants to be on essentially equal footing (reputation aside, and logistics as part) so sales are encouraged since you can touch a lot of merchants you never could within driving distance. Why leave the house when they'll bring it to you for free, unless it's perishable (like a grocery), can't be shipped (like a pharmacy), or you have to have it? Outside the third point, the other two locations can operate much more cheaply outside of a mall.

>the economy in general
Malls were still subsisting up to 2008 when discretionary income dried up. Online logistics and deals/sales improved while malls were stuck with their fixed costs. Tons of malls lost most their good stores as online stores got lower prices, more free shipping and returns, etc... and then once the good stores are gone that bring people to malls, the shittier stores can't pay rent because fewer people are coming. Then once a mall is half dead, nobody wants to shop there.

>big box retailing
Walmart and Target killed the general categories at better pricing for one-stop shopping, specialty stores like Best Buy killed any point of buying electronics from a department store (other "category shopping" killed categories in malls, due to the high fixed costs in operating within them.)

>>134542165
>Online shopping is a smaller factor
bullshit

>>134556719 here
So where does that leave malls? In a really uncomfortable spot generally. The majority of malls cannot operate fully enough to keep the upkeep of the central areas worthwhile, and stores compete against each other at high rents. If a mall is majority empty (or even large portions), it's depressing as fuck to be at (ever shop at a Kmart)?

The one thing that malls have going for them is fashion and impulse. Both appeal to rich people on high margin goods, so if you can settle in a wealthy enough area, you're fine. Mall downtown in a big city? Or just enough of a destination like King of Prussia? The "decline of malls" is OK. People stay near King of Prussia to shop as part of their trip to the US, to buy goods that would be far more expensive overseas. It's kind of disgusting consumerism, but they found their niche.

The average American, however? Malls are largely dead. If I have to pick something up in person (groceries like milk and veggies, prescriptions) I do so outside of a mall, with less hassle, time, and the cost of maintaining a mall location. If I want to buy clothes? I'll go make a day trip of it once a year to an outlet specializing in discount clothes, or I'll wait for sales online with free return shipping where I try shit on, if it fits I keep it, and if not I slap a prepaid return label on and get all my money back. I get PUMA sneakers for $24.99 free ship and free returns when they're on sale. At a mall, even during the "good" years before 2008, you'd be lucky to clear $50 on ugly pieces of shit.

Malls are a victim of changes in consumerism. Online gave people more options and more competition (which lowered prices) along with more convenience, and then any stores worth visiting either consolidated into an outlet or moved to non-mall locations with far lower rent to adjust to changes in consumer habits.