CATHOLIC GENERAL Everyone is welcome. Discuss news, ask question,

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Today is fifteenth Sunday in Ordinary Time.

Here are your daily readings
http://www.usccb.org/bible/readings/071617.cfm

Community links, such as recommended media, are now below in pastebin links. Remember to recommend things to add to the lists!
>Catholic Encyclopedia
http://www.newadvent.org/
>Online Breviary
http://divinumofficium.com/cgi-bin/horas/officium.pl
>Directory for Finding a Latin Mass (U.K)
https://lms.org.uk/mass-listings
>Directory for Finding a Latin Mass (U.S/Can)
http://www.ecclesiadei.org/masses.cfm
>Directory for Finding a Latin Mass (Ireland)
http://www.latinmassireland.com/mass-listings/
>Laudate App
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.aycka.apps.MassReadings&hl=en
>Recommended Movies
http://pastebin.com/xAL9w4fk
>Recommended Books
http://pastebin.com/K8DUUPdC
>Recommended Music
http://pastebin.com/dgqjiSgs
>Beauty of Creation
http://pastebin.com/VKGZEvXK
>Tales of Love and Virtue
http://pastebin.com/Qt3RUsXA

I have a question

Why christians are always saying things like 'Christ loves you', 'Christ died for you'?

>CATHOLIC

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hahahahahahahahahha
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA

>>133817789

Hi Wolf

why did you advertise in my /sg/

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Are any of you acting to preserve your local parishes in this age of upheaval?

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>>133817939
Hey, happy to help.
Now I don't think I can be comprehensive as I'm not sure why each person does it but most commonly "Christ loves you" is a call to have hope as all things are done by God's will. "Christ died for you" is important as Jesus Christ is the incarnation of God. The incarnation of God died for the sake of us. That is just a roundabout way of getting you to have hope again.

Hope that helped.

>>133818148
>>133818186
?
Yes?

>>133817789
Have a bump, been reading into a lot of things lately and as someone coming from a mainly baptist/non denominational church background I think I am settling into Orthodox Christianity

>>133817789
Hey wolf

Dues vult

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>From the pastebin Beauty of Creation

This is an ever-growing list of videos, stories, and images of all creation, life, and the world. Enjoy them as they are, despite the small list we're starting with. Feel free to recommend additions to the list on Catholic or Christian Generals.

>Earth Fly-By, thanks to the International Space Station
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tHqov_UHYA
>Symphony of Science playlist
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSgiXGELjbc&list=PLB851C39AD031B643
>The Earthporn website
http://earthporn.org/

>From the pastebin Tales of Love and Virtue

This is an ever-growing list of videos and stories that touching, sweet, and relevant to Catholic Generals as they are all triumphs of love and/or the human experience. While many would refer to some of these videos as "sad", we cannot forget that these tales are all about love in the face of struggle and the victory despite of it. Feel free to recommend additions to the list on Catholic or Christian Generals.

The church carries with it the greatest of human stories in its 2000-year-old history: The story of the saints, the champions and role models of the Christian faith. This first section will be on them and the second will be other links.

>Saints of the Orthodox Church playlist (shared by the Catholic Chuch)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVX1HOxrDcw&list=PL0AwxAWi5VQ33OaRuyXmi1mlpmSggxp7V
>CCTN's Discovering Our Saints
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wzAedYHtwg&list=PLDDDABC497B5B4E93
>Mini-Saint Encyclopedia ran by Catholic Online
http://www.catholic.org/saints/

>Other

>Thai Insurance Commercial Playlist
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=632CHpeHYZE&list=PLMt780CWP13md-G-vmF2t-Aq2QqcmRn6A
>Wisdom Commons website
http://www.wisdomcommons.org/virtue/153-virtue/lifestories

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Recommended Christian books, by 4chan and 16/2chan. Feel free to recommend additions to the list on Catholic or Christian Generals.

>GENERAL

The Bible (Ignatius Study Bible Recommended)
The catechism of your denomination

>accepted English versions of Bible

NABRE
Douay Rheims
RSV

>THEOLOGY

>novice

Introduction to Christianity by Joseph Ratzinger
The Last Superstition by Edward Feser
The Everlasting Man by G.K. Chesterton
Orthodoxy by G.K. Chesterton
Mere Christianity
CATHOLICISM by Robert Barron
The Orthodox Way by Kallistos Ware
Outlines of Moral Theology by Francis J. Connell

>intermediate

Scholastic Metaphysics by Edward Feser
God: His Existence and His Nature by Reginald Garrigou-Lagrange
Natural Theology by Bernard Boedder
The Spirit of Medieval Philosophy by Etienne Gilson
Against Heresies
City of God
Christianity for Modern Pagans
The Mystical Theology of the Eastern Church

>advanced

Apologia Pro Vita Sua
Summa Contra Gentiles
Summa Theologiae
On the Incarnation
The Didache
Divine Names by Pseudo-Dionysius the Areopagite

>SPIRITUAL LIFE

>novice

The Introduction to the Devout Life by St. Francis de Sales
Story of a Soul by St. Therese
The Seven Storey Mountain by Thomas Merton
Orthodoxy and the Religion of the Future by Fr Seraphim Rose
Nihilism - Fr Seraphim Rose

part 1

>>133817789
dude universalism lmao

Really though. Unless you're Catholics who think the current church has been subverted by a heresy or something then get the fuck of my board

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>>133818690
part 2/2

>intermediate

The Interior Castle
Spiritual Exercises by St. Ignatius
Dialogues by St. Catherine of Sienna
True Devotion to Mary
True Devotion to the Holy Spirit

>advanced

The Cloud of Unknowing
The Dark Night of the Soul by St. John of the Cross
The Desert Fathers
The Philokalia
The Ladder of Divine Ascent
New Seeds of Contemplation by Thomas Merton
The Imitation of Christ by Thomas Kempis

>MEMETICS

Things Hidden Since the Foundation of the World by Rene Girard
I See Satan Fall Like Lightning by Rene Girard

>HISTORICAL/BIOGRAPHICAL

Rome Sweet Home
The Long Loneliness by Dorothy Day
After Virtue
Christendom I: Founding of Christendom
Theology and Social Theory by John Millbank
Ethics and the Limits of Philosophy by Bernard Williams
Life of St.Anthony by Saint Athanasius
Life of St Francis of Assisi by Saint Bonaventure
Silouan the Athonite by Archimandrite Sophrony
The Autobiography of St. Ignatius Loyol
The Formation of Christendom by Christopher Dawson
The Dividing of Christendom by Christoper Dawson

>FICTION

Don Quixote
Diary of a Country Priest
The Divine Comedy
Paradise Lost
Silence by Shusaku Endo
A Canticle for Leibowitz
Faust
Les Miserables
The Canterbury Tales
The Man Who Was Thursday
The Brothers Karamazov
A Man for All Seasons
The Pillars of the Earth
The Lord of the Rings
The Chronicles of Narnia
Lord of the World
Parzifal
Joseph of Arimathea: A Romance of the Grail
The Arthurian Cycle
Quo Vadis

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>>133818690
What are your thoughts on some of the books in pic related? I have a KJV and Orthodox Study Bible but I was looking to get The Living God Part 1 and 2. Thanks for the thread again.

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>>133818204
>>133818565
Hi

>>133818501
Congratulations, man. What caused the transition for you? An Orthodox painting for you.

Catholicisn unfortunately has been on a steady decline since the 1400s. Unheard of "traditions" like declaring Mary as co-redeemer of Christ (which is heretical in itaelf. Christ is the ONLY intercessor and redeemer) and giving the pope the status of infallibility are just one of the many examples of the church having been corrupted. Mind you, this doesn't account its secular and ruling power, which is much worse if you look at history.

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Christian music list. The first list is modern music, the second is hymnals and more traditional music. Feel free to recommend additions on Catholic and Christian Generals.

>Marvin Gaye's "God is Love"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nA7C815I104
>Woven Hand's "My Russia"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbUXbMn2zfc
>Woven Hand's "Consecration"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcwCK8pFZ0M
>Om's Pilgrimage Album
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IK6wJUNirbs
>Sufjan Steven's "No Shade in the Shadow of the Cross"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qx1s_3CF07k
>mewithoutyou - Sun and Moon
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Mor7syiTSE
>Young Oceans - ONLY YOU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imEvd1ck4fs
>Bobby McFerrin's Joshua
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DRketdk07o
>Psalter's Lord's Prayer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3rT8YVJERk
>Janelle Monae's Victory
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJ6wkOO_MEA
>Johnny Cash's God's Gonna Cut You Down
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ht7mxF9XZiA
>Nick Drake - Pink Moon
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPbWMvQwroo
>Mary Lou Williams - Anima Christi
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fv14RFfRLA
>Dr. C.J. Johnson's "You Better Run"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bchmhIdZgys
>Judee Sill's Heart Food
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KI7sOZQaSkI
>Dave Bixby's "Free Indeed"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhHBGRr2XDE
>The Revolutionary Army of the Infant Jesus' "Beauty After the Fall"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcbJFvje29A
>Podnieś Mnie Jezu
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbhIHF3SHm0
>Baba Yetu
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJiHDmyhE1A
>Audrey Assad's "Restless"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuhYZrn4flo

>>133818690
>>133818752
you should compile these into a repo for easy access

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>>133818976
Traditional Music

>Veni Veni Emmanuel
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRi1GDoaQu4
>Agni Parthene
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mw8XE3j_c0U
>Je Nai Nan
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vL1lxH7s3Cw
>Come Now Font of Every Blessing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1bSlS6OWTs
>A nice collection of South Pacific Island hymns from the movie The Thin Red Line
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7A1Z5CEXDM4
>Hail Mary in Latin, done in song.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihNVhFA_X3I
>Hallelujah Chorus done suddenly in the public
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wp_RHnQ-jgU
>Heyr himna smiður
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4dT8FJ2GE0
>Jezu Chryste Panie Miły
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dymL1-ckMwg
>Ludu mój ludu
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orZo6JesM_E
>Cидить Mикoлaй y кoнeць cтoлa
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbGwaO0ZVzM
>Fiez-vous en lui
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJCl6ylgwCU
>Mass in D major, Op.123 "Missa solemnis"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFor50sjEaw
>Krzyżu Święty
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlIG5gNa-Oo
>Taize Alleluia
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-jOgH0PP2I
>O Dniu Radosny
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MROPDOKkKd0
>Dies Irae
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dlr90NLDp-0
>Deum Verum
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kK5AohCMX0U
>NON NOBIS DOMINE, SED NOMINI TUO DA GLORIAM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bb9ro4IQqi8

>>133818852
Started reading more into the history of the church and Christianity overall and was drawn to the history, traditions, and worship. The Church has lasted for centuries and it seems many of the issues around today can be attributed to people being lead astray. Still trying to work through the schism because I don't truly understand it yet, but looking to read into it a lot more.

>>133819029

>>133819029
>Not mentioning Miserere Mei Deus from Allegri.

>>133817789
Are you ready to become a Christian?

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>>133819002
I do.
They are literally copy/pastes of the OP pastebins. I repost them because people often don't check the links and I see situations where regulars suddenly are surprised to see all this collected info. The recommended media links in >>133817876

>>133818706
I uphold that the Catholic Church is more than its current leadership. It's current leadership have issues - moreso media-driven that actual issues but there are real issues nonetheless.

And what's this about universalism? What does that have to do with anything I said?

>>133817789
The Pope has been ramping up criticism of Trump and America lately, how am I supposed to accept this?

>>133819302
You don't. Let's face it, the Catholic church is corrupt to the core. There was even a gay orgy conducted by one of the Vatican's top brass. No wonder the reformation happened.

>>133819300
no, the books themselves, so that I can download them

I don't get it. Why do the Catholics worship virgin Mary? She was just an ordinary human.

>>133819385
As far as I can trace my ancestors besides one branch of my family are all Catholic, so I am not going to simply convert away out of political convince, but this is growing infuriating.

At this point, I can only hope we get a new pope before the damage is too deep to the institution.

>>133819590
hah

>>133817789
Im going to church for the second week since a long period of time (10+ years). I'm also reading the bible again and watch a lot of video's on the faith to refamiliarize myself with it. The only trouble I still have is praying. I dont know how and what to say. Got any tips?

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>>133818961
>Unheard of "traditions" like declaring Mary as co-redeemer of Christ

This is a theological opinion that is not doctrine.

>Christ is the ONLY intercessor and redeemer
That stands against the scriptures, as He is our only redeemer but we are all called to be intercessors for one another. By Paul, namely.

>giving the pope the status of infallibility

Such an authority extends from Jesus' authority given to Peter, of whom the pope stands in the office of. And further infallibility is a power that the office can exercise, not a passive trait of the one that is pope.

I have more info on this here:
https://pastebin.com/Gq0Rf4TL

Keep up the good work Wolf
If only Skullcross was still around

>>133817789
Catholicism esteems human tradition & culture over that of the ways of God, its basis is rooted upon human decrees, they are unable to argue from the Bible, instead it has to rely on Vatican-sanctioned histories, they use idols, pray through false intercessors like Saints & Mary, even though Jesus alone is the way to the Father, they instituted pagan festivals & holidays, and even presumptuously assume the power to remit sin. In their Catechism they tampered with God's Law -- removed the 2nd commandment, altered the 4th, and split the 10th to preserve the # (fulfilling Daniel 7). The history of Catholicism has been one of Satanic abuse employing political & martial power to exert their will. The only Biblical argument they use for Popery is "Peter is the rock of the church" yet that isn't a justification for Papal hierarchical arrangement whatsoever -- read the books written by Peter, he never in anyway condones such an architecture. Upon the death, resurrection and ascension of Jesus, the Church was small, far-flung, and fragile, and so Peter was raised up to clarify questions and give context to the example laid by Christ to the early church -- so yes, in this way the "church was built on the rock of Peter" which is to say, his teachings & clarifications -- not the man or any man -- Jesus is the foundation on which we must place our faith completely.
Orthodox have many of the same problems as Catholicism.
Faggot-sects of Jesuit-infiltrated "Protestantism" have lost their balls and are no longer standing up against the seat of the Antichrist power which is Popery and most still false sabbath. Although the early Reformers didn't agree on much, they got the ball rolling and agreed that Papacy was illegitimate.

>Comprehensive history of the Reformation & Catholic blasphemy
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLF170B126002E7CB0

>>133817789
tfw identify and call myself Catholic but don't go to church.

Would god be mad?

>>133819971
reminder: Sunday worship is blasphemous.
>And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws (Daniel 7:25)
The verse in question predicted the eventual breaking of the law as far back in Daniels time, this is something the pharisees didn't even dare to do.
>Catholic Dr. Johann Eck, Luther’s principal adversary, said this in 1533:
There is no mention of the cessation of the Sabbath and the institution of Sunday in the gospels or in Paul's writings, or in all the Bible; therefore, this has taken place by the apostolic Church instituting it without scripture.
The church took the pagan philosophy and made it the buckler of faith against the heathen. She took the pagan Sunday and made it the Christian Sunday. There is in truth something royal, something kingly about the sun, making it a fitting emblem of Jesus, the sun of justice. Hence the church in these countries would seem to have said, "keep the old pagan name, it shall remain consecrated, sanctified." And thus the pagan Sunday, dedicated to Balder, became the Christian Sunday, sacred to Jesus.ii
The Christian Sabbath is therefore to this day the acknowledged offspring of the Catholic Church, as a spouse of the Holy Ghost, without a word of remonstrance from the Protestant world.iii
The Bible says “Remember that thou keep holy the Sabbath day”. The Catholic church says “No! By my divine power, I abolish the Sabbath day, and command you to keep holy the first day of the week,” and lo, the entire civilized world bows down in reverent obedience to the command of the Holy Catholic Church.iv
It pleased the church of God that the religious celebration of the Sabbath day should be transferred to the Lord's day (Sunday).v

The laws and times mentioned in Daniel 7:25 are laws that God Himself has established and time that God Himself has set. The law that stands out throughout the Bible is the Ten Commandment law.

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>>133819502
Oh.
Well.
I have no access to such things. I'm sorry.

>>133819126
Well excellent stuff, Anon. I did something similar, though I was an atheist (Naturalist) by the time I was doing it all. Good job, man.

Anything I can assist you with in regard with the schism? I am Catholic, yes, but I do try to be fair.

>>133819205
>not linking me

Seriously though, link it and I'll add it next time I'm able. Most of the stuff already is community added.

>>133820036

All I know is, it makes me mad.

Too many "cultural" Catholics around these days. Stop living this vain life and come back to the Church for real.

>>133819971
>>133820038

>Where is Popery & the Papal hierarchy sanctioned in the Bible?
refer to my first post regarding Peter being the rock having nothing to do with Popery
>When does God say that His Law can be amended by the edicts of men?
>Where in the Bible does it say you can pray through Saints & Mary?
>Why does God forbid using idols, trinkets, & devices during your prayers?
>Where does God ever imply that as a fallen race any of your flawed works can contribute to your salvation whatsoever?
>Why does God warn us in Daniel and Revelation that this whore Church would change His Law & presume godlike authority?
>Why did Rome change the solemnity of the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday?
Sunday worship is a mark of their perceived authority & supreme jurisdiction. see previous post

>Why does the Catholic Church & its system of Popery sit on the wrong side of all these questions and fit the criteria of the antichrist beast power of Daniel & Revelation?

copy/paste link for complete playlist
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVrgsbw_Nmk&index=14&list=PL6BB648B46654467F
The Papal Echelon is the seat of Antichrist power of Daniel & Revelation.

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>>133819302
You don't necessarily have to. But given his role he would be important to listen to even if you do reject it ultimately.

>>133819521
Catholics do not worship Mary. They respect her greatly.

The question i have for you Catholics is where did you guys get the authority to pray to anyone but God? Throughout the entire Old Testament and the New Testament all the prophets and all the disciples and even Jesus himself only prayed to God but Catholics pray to Mary, they Pray to angels and they pray to saints, seems very unbiblical when did that tradition start? The bible very clearly condemns worshiping anyone but God

>And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellow servant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: WORSHIP GOD

Revelation 19:10

>>133819793
>dont know how and what to say. Got any tips?

Just pray when you need stuff , or if a guy is sick you pray for him to get better , or just talk to god about stuff

>>133820286
Gotta say wolf, as a non-Christian, these threads are pretty comfy and the architecture and art are great.

>>133820335
Google the difference between Adoration and Veneration.

>>133820207

Ah its you again trying to wake up the sheeple ,good job but its pretty useless , the blind stay blind its hard to change your opinion on something when your whole faith is constructed from it

I'll ask a question since it's been on my mind for a while.
I don't see God as a person, but believe it's an experience. It isn't something external but internal. I see the stories and characters in the bible as metaphors or ways of explaining complicated concepts like emotions.
What religion is a belief like mine? If I try and explain it like this to my catholic/christian family they get upset and fearful.

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>>133819590
Very overplayed stuff, that whole Catholic pedophilia scandal.

>>133819793
>>133820038
>>133820207

Well I definitely can't just sit through all that crap but I'll answer your questions:

>Where is Popery & the Papal hierarchy sanctioned in the Bible?

The authority given uniquely to Peter by Jesus in the Bible as opposed to the authority given to the rest of the apostles.

>When does God say that His Law can be amended by the edicts of men?

God does not and such a view is heretical to the Catholic Church.

>Where in the Bible does it say you can pray through Saints & Mary?

"Pray through"? You are mixed up. Catholics ask saints to pray for them. It is called prayer as the communication comes from their union with God.

There is a mention of saints gathering prayers in the Book of Revelation and the reference to our actions still maintaining a "cloud of witnesses", saying that those who perish still watch over us. And Jesus mentions joy in Heaven over a sinner repenting in the Book of Luke. They couldn't be joyous if they were unable to know of whats going on there. And most obviously - St. Paul affirms that we live after death and also affirms intercession to be done on behalf of all people. He, nor anyone, says that once you're in Heaven you're no longer part of that anymore.

part 1/2

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>>133821305
part 2/2

>Why does God forbid using idols, trinkets, & devices during your prayers?

God forbids idols insofar as they are the worship of the non-divine and confuse the relationship between God and creation. God says nothing about the use of devices and trinkets during prayer in scripture.

>Where does God ever imply that...

God doesn't, nor does the Catholic Church state that. You cannot earn salvation. Justification comes about from faith perfected by works. Easier said as "faith and works". This is because the grace of God works in us to both desire and work towards righteousness.

>Why does God warn us in Daniel and Revelation...

Because it would occur.

>Why did Rome change...

This is a misunderstanding. The Sabbath was not moved. The Sabbath is a Jewish tradition. Jesus brought the New Covenant and begot worship on the Lord's Day (Sunday). This is seen in Acts 20:7, 1 Cor. 16:2.

Hell, it's in the Didache too if you wish to see historical record of the apostolic age teaching outside Acts and Paul's letters:

"But every Lord’s day . . . gather yourselves together and break bread, and give thanksgiving after having confessed your transgressions, that your sacrifice may be pure. But let no one that is at variance with his fellow come together with you, until they be reconciled, that your sacrifice may not be profaned" (Didache 14 [A.D. 70]).

>>133820662
A great deception is coming soon, full blown Rev. 13:13 stuff, crisis and mass brainwash hysteria and a coming Sunday Law + persecution of the saints. We should count ourselves quite honored to live within the span of the closing events -- stay true, study, pray.
I feel largely ineffectual confined in the tedium of mass confusion & falsehood permeating and growing all around us. I sense that I'm merely casting pearls before swine, but we need to be blowing the trumpet.

Gather your oil brother, the groom is at the door.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3kDDlG7_M8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNVCcph6cnI

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>>133820036
God doesn't get mad. It is a sin, however.
You could be improving yourself via worship and the sacrament and yet you don't go. Further, you do not give proper respect to the topics the mass is about by missing it. There could be good reason, however. I do not know your circumstance.

Holy Days of Obligation include:

>All Sundays
>day of the Nativity of Our Lord Jesus Christ
>the Epiphany
>the Ascension of Christ
>the feast of the Body and Blood of Christi
>the feast of Mary the Mother of God
>her Immaculate Conception
>her Assumption
>the feast of Saint Joseph
>the feast of the Apostles Saints Peter and Paul
>the feast of All Saints

I could help you more with stuff if you're interested.

Also you make >>133820182 mad and that can't be good.

>>133820581
Thanks. We do paintings too.
Feel free to ask questions or be critical of different things as you see fit. We'll respond as able.

>>133821305
>The authority given uniquely to Peter by Jesus in the Bible as opposed to the authority given to the rest of the apostles.
That's funny, have you ever read the books of Peter? He never in anyway condones such an architecture. Upon the death, resurrection and ascension of Jesus, the Church was small, far-flung, and fragile, and so Peter was raised up to clarify questions and give context to the example laid by Christ to the early church -- so yes, in this way the "church was built on the rock of Peter" which is to say, his teachings & clarifications -- not the man or any man -- Jesus is the foundation on which we must place our faith completely.
>God does not and such a view is heretical to the Catholic Church.
Catholic Catechism removed the 2nd commandment, changed the 4th, then split the 10th to make up for the number change. Time & dates were changed (solemnity of the Sabbath >>133820038) Pagan Christmas was sanctioned etc.
>"Pray through"? You are mixed up. Catholics ask saints to pray for them. It is called prayer as the communication comes from their union with God.
That's a form of praying through. You're asking "saints" (some of whom were Catholic butchers who killed thousands of God's humble Protestant workers) to intercede on your behalf when only Jesus can qualify us and go to the Father on our behalf. They're still in the grave anyways and haven't been resurrected yet.
>>133821366
>Because it would occur.
...and it has, the Vatican whore Church with it's bastardized "pseudo-Protestant" harlot daughters (who have signed ecumenical treaties with Rome, have fulfilled Daniel 7.
>The Sabbath is a Jewish tradition
The Sabbath was instituted by God as a specific day and is eternal & unchanging. It's part of the Law and in Matthew Jesus reiterated the continuity of the Law explicitly. Your devil catechism mutilated it.

>>133822039
Keep in mind, some erroneously claim the Law is done away with, often citing...
Matthew 22:36-40
36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

>two great commandments: Love God & Love your Neighbor
>On these two great commandments hang all the LAW
The first 4 commandments outline how we show our love to God
the last 6 commandments outline how we are to relate to our neighbors
>The 10 commandments are still in effect. (Matthew 5)
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

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>>133820335
>The question i have for you Catholics is where did you guys get the authority to pray to anyone but God?

This is moreso a linguistic issue. When Catholics or Orthodox "pray to saints" actually what they are doing is asking them to pray for them, akin to me asking you to pray for me. That asking is called prayer as we only can communicate to them due to their union with God. It is not understood as worship.

For further reference I responded to such a question in this post >>133821305 at the bottom.

Lord have mercy. I don't know who to send next. Guide my shaking hand. The truth won't wash. My sins are yours to forgive.

You said he's just a friend.
And you said he's just a friend.
Oh, baby you.
You got what I neeeeed.

>>133822039
>ignores Jewish veneration of angels
Yes we know it exists. Documents at Qumran for instance showed us this. Don't forget the high view given to Michael the Archangel. Also a characteristic of Judaism at the time of the NT.

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>>133817789
How many pedos do I need to help hide their crimes to be considered virtuous by the cathocuck, kike owned, church, white looking kike named Jesus Cesar Borgia?

Also why do ratfaced rapists occupy most of the top slots in your faggoty organization?

>>133822182
From your own answer you are telling me that you made up praying to idols and not God based on a verse in revelation that you didnt even link? Doesnt sound right too me also Paul did not pray to anyone but God, he did not pray to Mosses or to Elijah or to the angel Michael for intercession he prayed to GOD ALONE for help just like every other disciple and prophet before him, this is my problem with Catholicism its obviously has pagan elements to it that have no biblical foundation

>And they left all the commandments of the Lord their God, and made them molten images, even two calves, and made a grove, and worshipped all the host of heaven,

2 Kings 17:16

>>133817939

It's as simple as this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUcDqUEZY3w

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>>133822039
>That's funny, have you...

I don't get what you're trying to argue here. You hardly address my comment.
Peter was given these authorities to which the church was started when he got the name 'Peter' and stopped being simply called 'Simon'. He was not raised up AFTER Jesus death unless you reference Pentecost. The authority given to him was done by Jesus - in person - before being arrested and killed on the cross.

Pic related for future reference to Peter as the rock.

>2nd Commandment

That is a can of worms I do not want to sift through at the moment. Here's a link:

https://www.catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/did-the-catholic-church-change-the-ten-commandments

I already spoke to you about the Sabbath and gave scriptural citation. And Christmas' date comes from it being 9 months after the Annunciation.

>That's a form of praying through.

Right, which is why it's called praying and yet not considered the same thing as praying to God.

>when only Jesus can qualify us and go to the Father on our behalf.

Yes...? And what's wrong with asking for intercession? It's literally asked for everyone to do for one another by St. Paul in the Bible. And I gave scriptural references to the awareness of those in Heaven. You're combating the Bible for not being for your Christian beliefs now.

>the Vatican whore Church with...

Same old bullshit. Come when you have an argument.

>The Sabbath was instituted by...

You're going to have to give citation and also contend the argument I already have with my own scriptural citation.

>Keep in mind, some...

I have never heard those verses be used to defend the claim. Honestly, I'm not sure how the claim could be relevant.

Paul's Letter to the Hebrews is good evidence of the New Covenant. The Levitical priesthood is done away with for one based on the New Covenant in Hebrews 7, you get very blatant lines like "in speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete" and the sort. Jesus fulfilled Mosaic Law.

>>133822835
A high view of angels and their invocation is present in Judaic tradition so your question is already void. Even worse, one of the pslams even invokes the angels to praise and worship god. Huh I thought we are not suppose to invoke those beings but only God.

Funny isn't it?

And Revelations is simply appropriating what is known as an angel refusal tradition which itself is known to accept the veneration of angels. In Revelations the use of the refusal tradition was to emphasize Christology and thus tells us nothing about their veneration. The same book also includes the invocation of dead individuals to rejoice as well

>>133817789
Why do you not follow the Bible?
It is the word of the Lord.
https://youtu.be/3_2T47PAIkM

Ephesians 2:8-9
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Galatians
2:16/21
16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

3:6-11
6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

5:4-5
4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

>>133820044
>Seriously though, link it and I'll add it next time I'm able. Most of the stuff already is community added.


Here is the link.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36Y_ztEW1NE

This will be my all time favorite. Idk what it is but it has something divine to it. It is like being home again. I miss our fathers garden.

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>>133823450
forgot pic

>>133817789
cucktholic

Fuck you and your anti-White jewish cult.

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>>133819793
>Im going to church for the...


I just now realized I hadn't got back to you actually. I am so sorry, man.
Well first off congratulations on getting back into it man. It's always good to see someone improving themselves. Before I get into prayer it would be important to clarify what prayer is. I did a write up for others some time ago that could help here:

>There are absolutely tons of forms of Christian prayer, to the point it is best defined as an application of the mind and heart towards union with God, whether this be petition, song, meditation, thanksgiving, contemplation, intercession (prayer on behalf of another), asking someone in Heaven to pray for you, or done with any formality or length. The desire for God in the prayer does not need be explicit either. The point of it is greater communion with God and through that we come to meet the mark to receive what God had planned for us or others. Prayer is largely a "meeting the mark" process and method for individual growth.

>Because of this, it is improper to view prayer as wish-fulfillment or simply therapeutic. It is both efficacious and therapeutic. Your prayers are always answered as you are always given what God has willed for were ready for at that time and as God is sovereign over all things.

I hope that helped. Now for prayers itself there are two ways to go:

1. Find famous prayers that touch you (I recommend http://reflections.yale.edu/article/seize-day-vocation-calling-work/merton-prayer ) and read them yourself. Like with mass, the structure is a ideal model for you to conform yourself to. Don't simply read the prayer but feel and conform yourself with it as well.

2. Speak openly. To speak in prayer properly is a gift and you did well being at a loss to begin with. With what prayer is in mind, speak openly. The rest will come.

>>133823243
>A high view of angels and their invocation is present in Judaic tradition

So what are Catholic's the Jewish pharisees now? Using Judaism as your augment is never a good start

>Even worse, one of the pslams even invokes the angels to praise and worship god.

Post the verse in psalms where a HUMAN prays to an angel i will wait....

> In Revelations the use of the refusal tradition was to emphasize Christology and thus tells us nothing about their veneration. The same book also includes the invocation of dead individuals to rejoice as well

The word Invocation or Veneration is not found in the bible just made up Catholic stuff

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>>133822709
Catholic priests do sexual assault at a smaller rate than school teachers and other denominations. They just get all the attention because there was a cover up from some higher ups and because of the importance of the church.

http://prospect.org/article/next-christian-sex-abuse-scandal

http://www.themediareport.com/2013/10/02/evangelical-sex-abuse-worse-than-catholic-church/

http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/commentandblogs/2010/08/09/now-we-have-real-evidence-%E2%80%93-sexual-abuse-is-not-a-%E2%80%98catholic-problem%E2%80%99/

http://www.catholiceducation.org/en/controversy/common-misconceptions/9-myths-about-priestly-pedophilia.html

http://www.awkwardmomentsbible.com/shocking-pastors-on-the-prowl/

http://www.themediareport.com/fast-facts/

http://shoebat.com/2014/05/06/sexual-abuse-protestant-churches-catholic/

http://www.christiancentury.org/article/2013-10/evangelicals-worse-catholics-sexual-abuse

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/has-media-ignored-sex-abuse-in-school/

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/forgotten-study-abuse-in-school-100-times-worse-than-by-priests

Further, they have done much to respond:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecclesiastical_response_to_Catholic_sexual_abuse_cases

And your anti-semitism comes from Christian circles.

>>133823167
>>133821366
will need more than 1 post to finish complete response
>Acts 20:7
"Now on the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul, ready to depart the next day, spoke to them and continued his message until midnight."

Here, at last, we find a religious meeting on the first day of the week, but it was not a "Sunday meeting," that is, a church service. . Notice, Paul continued his speech until midnight, and verse 8 says, "There were many lamps in the upper room where they were gathered together." It indeed occurred after sunset, before midnight, thus on the first day of the week. This meeting and Paul's preaching—at most, it was what we would call a Bible study today—took place during the hours we now call Saturday night.
However, it is clear from subsequent verses that Paul and his companions treated this first day of the week, beginning at sundown, as a normal workday. Paul's companions sailed around a peninsula from Troas to Assos (verse 13)—a distance of fifty or sixty miles—while Paul, afoot, walked overland more than 19 miles (verses 11, 14). His companions were engaged in the labor of rowing and sailing a boat while Paul was preaching that Saturday night. Then, at the break of day Sunday morning, he set out to walk from Troas to Assos—a good hard day's work! He would not do this except on a common workday!
This scripture says nothing about anything being done weekly or customarily. It simply relates the events of this one particular first day of the week. The first-century church kept the Lord's Supper once each year on the Passover (I Corinthians 11:24).
That "the disciples came together to break bread" means merely that they gathered to eat a meal. This expression was commonly used to designate a meal in past times (see Luke 24:30; Acts 2:46; 27:35 for further examples of "breaking bread). Scripture interprets it only as eating a meal, not as a Communion service.

Catholicism esteems human tradition & culture over that of the ways of God, its basis is rooted upon human decrees, they are unable to argue from the Bible, instead it has to rely on Vatican-sanctioned histories, they use idols, pray through false intercessors like Saints & Mary, even though Jesus alone is the way to the Father, they instituted pagan festivals & holidays, and even presumptuously assume the power to remit sin. In their Catechism they tampered with God's Law -- removed the 2nd commandment, altered the 4th, and split the 10th to preserve the # (fulfilling Daniel 7). The history of Catholicism has been one of Satanic abuse employing political & martial power to exert their will. The only Biblical argument they use for Popery is "Peter is the rock of the church" yet that isn't a justification for Papal hierarchical arrangement whatsoever -- read the books written by Peter, he never in anyway condones such an architecture. Upon the death, resurrection and ascension of Jesus, the Church was small, far-flung, and fragile, and so Peter was raised up to clarify questions and give context to the example laid by Christ to the early church -- so yes, in this way the "church was built on the rock of Peter" which is to say, his teachings & clarifications -- not the man or any man -- Jesus is the foundation on which we must place our faith completely.
Orthodox have many of the same problems as Catholicism.
Faggot-sects of Jesuit-infiltrated "Protestantism" have lost their balls and are no longer standing up against the seat of the Antichrist power which is Popery and most still false sabbath. Although the early Reformers didn't agree on much, they got the ball rolling and agreed that Papacy was illegitimate.

>Comprehensive history of the Reformation & Catholic blasphemy
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLF170B126002E7CB0

Catholics and the Vatican created Islam
http://www.redicecreations.com/specialreports/2006/04apr/catholicislam.html

>>133823903
(1/2 for the Cor. 16:2) post
>1 Cor. 16:2
"On the first day of the week let each one of you lay something aside, storing up as he may prosper that there be no collections when I come." Often we see this text printed on the little offering envelopes in the pews of churches, and many preach that this text sets Sunday as the time for taking up the church collection for doing God's work and paying the minister and church expenses.

Verse 1 tells us what kind of collection is being made: "Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given orders to the churches of Galatia, so you must do also." First, it is a collection—not for the preacher, evangelism, or church expenses—but "for the saints." The members of the church in Jerusalem were suffering from drought and famine. They needed, not money, but food.
Notice that Paul had given similar instruction to other churches. He tells the Romans:
But now I am going to Jerusalem to minister to the saints. For it pleased those from Macedonia and Achaia [where Corinth is located] to make a certain contribution for the poor among the saints who are at Jerusalem. Therefore, when I have performed this and have sealed to them this fruit, I shall go by way of you to Spain. (Romans 15:25-28)

>>133824119

It was not money, but fruit that was being prepared for shipment to the poor saints at Jerusalem! The Greek word can also refer to grain, wine, and other produce that can be stored a long time without spoiling.
In I Corinthians 16:2, does Paul say they should give money at a church service? Not at all! He says, "Let each one of you lay something aside, storing up. . . ." Note this! He is telling them to put something aside for a special use, to store it—at home! Why? Because Paul did not want there be any collecting done when he arrived. He wanted this gift for the Jerusalem church to be ready for shipment.

"And when I come, whomever you approve by your letters I will send to bear your gift to Jerusalem. But if it is fitting that I go also, they [more than one] will go with me" (verses 3-4). Apparently it was going to require several men to carry this collection, gathered and stored up, to Jerusalem. If it were a tithe or offering for the minister or to spread the gospel, Paul could have carried the money alone.

Thus, once again, the first day of the week is a workday, a day for gathering fruit and food out of the orchards, fields, and gardens, and for storing it up. This labor was to be done on the first day as soon as the Sabbath was past!

Upon honest examination, not one of the texts speaking about "the first day of the week" sets it apart as a rest day. Not one makes it holy, calls it the Sabbath or by any other sacred title. In every case, the first day of the week was a common workday. In none of them was there a religious meeting and preaching service being held on the hours we now call Sunday. In none of them can we find a single shred of Bible authority for Sunday observance!

>>133824047
already here, brother

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>>133823450
>>133823450
The Catholic Church follows the Bible and compiled the biblical canon.

>check out this two hour video
No.

The Catholic position is that the grace of God works in us to both desire and work towards righteousness. What begins as faith is followed always and necessarily by works as works perfect faith. The capacity for justification itself is merited for us by the Passion of Christ. As such justification comes from "faith and works" not one or another. Your Ephesians verses and Galatian verses don't contradict this.

>>133823492
Thanks! This is beautiful.

>too autistic for marriage
>too isolated for single life
>too apathetic for the priesthood
>too non-commital for religious life

Halp

>>133823757
>using Jewish tradition is bad
It isn't especially when it is the entire background for the emergence of Christianity. So this is a redundant point to make.

Psalm 148

1Praise ye theLord.

Praise ye theLordfrom the heavens:
praise him in the heights.
2Praise ye him, all his angels:
praise ye him, all his hosts.
3Praise ye him, sun and moon:
praise him, all ye stars of light.
4Praise him, ye heavens of heavens,
and ye waters thatbeabove the heavens.

Living beings are entreated to praise God but by your logic we are not suppose to invoke them. Looks like the Pslamist is going to hell

>The word Invocation or Veneration is not found in the bible just made up Catholic stuff

It isn't. Because those two things or at the very least acts that look like them are already present in both OT and NT.

>>133823167
>I don't get what you're trying to argue here. You hardly address my comment.
I think I did, but you've placed your faith in a human institution over that of God's direct word, so I don't think quoting the Bible anymore will sway your in any way.
Apostolic succession has not basis in Biblical reality, Peter was tasked with clarifying the basic truths derived by Jesus into a coherent form for the early Church which was already showing signs of discord early on.

>that is a can of worms.
..you don't say.

>Same old bullshit. Come when you have an argument.
Oh yeah, you're right about that, we've had you identified for quite some time now.
http://www.whiteestate.org/books/gc/gc5.html

Sin is the transgression of the Law, without the Law there would be no Sin, without the reality of Sin & the Law, there would be no need for a Savior. By butchering the Law (in your devil Catechism) you're lessening the centrality of Christ's sacrifice.

Remember although we have been tainted by the effects of sin, it can be overcome through faith in Christ through faith who overcame it -- we will never be tempted beyond which we can bear. It was promised. When you feel your nature failings, lift your mind toward Christ and pray for deliverance from evil.
1 Corinthians 10:13
13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

Good works are the fruits of having faith in Christ and conforming your character to His -- as a fallen race nothing we can offer to God is able to atone for sin-debt, only accepting the perfect & complete work of Christ's sacrifice. Good works are a byproduct of having a Christ-like character, not an end in itself.

Roman Catholic Jesuits persecuted Protestants after the Reformation & Renaissance. In order to escape persecution from the Catholic Church, secret societies were formed such as the Masons and it was these good Masons who founded the United States of America. The U.S.A. was founded on the principles of the Renaissance and Reformation, it reflected a "New Order of The Ages" where we the people were sovereign and no one was sovereign over us.

In the U.S. there was no sovereign king, queen or pope. The government was meant to be the servant of the people, this was the "Novus Ordo Seclorum" or "New Order of the Ages" which is the opposite of the Old World Order. By the mid 1800's the Jesuits' had infiltrated and taken over their arch enemies, the Masons. The Jesuits set about with the purpose of disrupting and causing confusion in the Masons. In America Jesuit Albert Pike promptly announced that the god of the Masons was 'Lucifer' turning he Masons 180 degrees in the opposite direction from which they came. Morals & Dogma - Pike emphasizes the god of the Freemason's is Lucifer: The Jesuits also turned the Novus Ordo Seclorum ("New Order of the Ages") started in the USA, in the opposite direction calling the Old World Order the "New World Order".
http://www.libertyforlife.com/nwo/albert_pike.htm

https://larryhurtado.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/oxford-dss-handbook-angels-christology-monotheism1.pdf

I implore all sides to use reason and proper sources

I probably am gonna sleep now, been up most of the day.
continue your studies (precept upon precept, the Bible is internally consistent so the things you read gain context in light of the complete picture OT & NT are akin to complimentary strands of DNA), pray, ask for truth and be self-critical regarding the things you've learned and the things you think you know. You cannot rely on human doings and human traditions, only the word, which is the truth of God and the faith of Christ.

g'night fellows.

God bless everyone, viva Catolica

>>133824578
Stop reading because by doing that you are relying on yourself and on men. The only way for your view to make sense is that we have no free will for that is the only way for you not to be able to rely on any man

>>133822182
Why would you ask for someone to pray for you?
do some saints have more union to God than others?

>>133824250
That verse doesn't prove you can pray to angles or saints not even close, that verse is calling on the angels and the heavenly hosts to praise God, it doesn't say humans can praise them, what a leap of logic the immediate next verse says

>Let them praise the name of the Lord: for he commanded, and they were created.

God is a jealous God he only wants you to worship him just like he only wants his angels to worship him like in the verse you just posted

>For thou shalt worship no other god: for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God

Exodus 34:14

The ancient Israelite's worshiped Gods heavenly hosts instead of him like posted earlier and he judged them because of it

>And they left all the commandments of the LORD their God, and made them molten images, even two calves, and made a grove, and WORSHIPPED ALL THE HOSTS OF HEAVEN,

>Therefore the Lord was very angry with Israel, and removed them out of his sight: there was none left but the tribe of Judah only.

whats the opinion on reggae?

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>catholics differentiate between fish meat and meat of other animals when fasting

>>133824811
The point is that the verse invokes angels. But by your logic, invoking dead individuals or even angels are wrong but we see the Pslamist doing the same thing. It doesn't matter if the Pslamist is asking them to praise God. The point is, angels had been invoked.

So again show me why invoking angels are wrong because if such is indeed wrong, there is zero basis for any veneration of saints

>>133825266
I forgot to add. Notice I said nothing about praising them in that post I made. Because the point was demonstrating their invocation

I heard Christianity says people don't exist as men and women in heaven. Explain this to me.

>>133825230
1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; 3Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats,


Interesting

>>133825490
Everyone is a mutilated tranny in heaven

>>133825266
He is not invoking the angels at all the definition of invoke is "to petition for help or support" he is calling on the angels to worship God not for help or support big difference, When you pray to Angels or invoke thme you ask them for help or support like the defintion says, Post one just one bible verse of someone praying to an angel or a saint for help or support just one

>>133825266

Revelation 19
>10And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

We have nothing to do with angels thats why angels names are rarely mentioned , they are messengers

>>133825336
No it wasn't because David wasnt praising them he was telling them to praise God

>Let them praise the name of the Lord: for he commanded, and they were created.

What version of the Bible is best for a catholic?

How do I get stronger faith and convictions of my faith?

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>>133823903
>will need more than 1 post to finish complete response

I'd recommend writing it all out and then copy/pasting it part by part. I've had to do this lots.

But it seems you're big on copypasting already as the sum of the text you write in

>>133823903
>>133824119
>>133824135

comes from this link:

http://www.cgg.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Library.sr/CT/BQA/k/135/Sunday-Worship-New-Testament.htm

And if you want to argue with citing a link, I'll do the same to you:

https://www.catholic.com/magazine/print-edition/changing-the-sabbath

https://www.catholic.com/tract/sabbath-or-sunday

>>133824221
Well you will have to work on yourself. What guilt you have is to motivate you to act. We can't get it started for you, nor can anyone but yourself.

>>133824318
>I think I did, but you've placed your faith...

God's direct word is the authority from which the human institution comes about though, so... what? All my arguments with you so far stemmed from the Bible, sans the Didache reference. Apostolic succession is L I T E R A L L Y unanimously defended and was never criticized until second generation Protestants rejected it in the 16th century. Conferring the office of bishop via the laying on of hands is referenced, getting replacement archbishops is referenced. These practices were ONLY understood in regards to a transmission of grace until the 16th-17th century.

>more links for arguments
>link is Wycliffe of all things instead of being relevant to the Harlot claim
nope, not at this time of night


>Sin is the transgression of the Law...

This is largely true butthe butchering comment comes out of no where. You need to learn to argue your point with those that disagree with you. You beg the question so much that I can't see what your argument even is.

>Good works are the fruits of having faith

This is incorrect as the grace of God works in us to both desire and work towards righteousness. Not simply desire and the work comes from the desire.

>>133825839
>For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

And even jesus prayed to the father for help from angels

>53Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?

>>133825744
Nope. To invoke also means to call upon which is what the Pslamist done. When I say I "invoke" something it means I am calling it at the very least and this was precisely what the Pslamist done. Simply narrowing definitions is not going to help here as this act of calling upon the saints is a fundamental in their veneration. So why did the Pslamist call upon angels to begin with? By your logic it is wrong and so far all you done is simply narrow down the definition of "Invoke" which does not help at all

>>133825839
In context the author draws from the angel refusal tradition and he himself had bowed to an angel before that and no rebuke was given. Secondly this could also imply that John is equal to the angel and thus says nothing about ordinary believers venerating saints

>>133825852
Again he is invoking angels. Your logic is invoking angels or saints are wrong. But the Pslamist does just that

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>ywn never go to Versailles chapel to listen to Monteverdi's vespras

>>133826162
None of these concerns the invocation of angels which the Pslamist does

>>133825975


Bible:
Douwey-Rheims, Nevarre

Search the internet for these videos:

- Bishop Fulton Sheen
- Mother Angelica
= WCBOhio (What Catholics Believe, Ohio)

Stay away from modern Jesuits and post-Vatican II bullshit.

>>133817789
Do you unironically believe that protestanism is a heresy and nobody outside of the catholic church will be saved?

>>133826289
>Psalm 148

says that angels praise god , there is nothing about invocation of angels they are the messengers of god .

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I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.
And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Only-begotten, begotten of the Father before all ages. Light of Light; True God of True God; begotten, not made; of one essence with the Father, by Whom all things were made;
Who for us men and for our salvation came down from heaven, and was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary, and became man.
And He was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate, and suffered, and was buried.
And the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures;
And ascended into heaven, and sits at the right hand of the Father;
And He shall come again with glory to judge the living and the dead; Whose Kingdom shall have no end.
And in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the Giver of Life, Who proceeds from the Father; Who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified; Who spoke by the prophets.
In one Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church.
I acknowledge one Baptism for the remission of sins.
I look for the resurrection of the dead;
And the life of the world to come. Amen.

>>133826497
The pslams entreat them to praise God. He could easily said "the angels praise thee" to make the point you are making but he said "praise him all his angels"

>>133826497


If jesus did not even directly invoke angels why do you think you can ?

>11Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him.

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>>133824783
>Why would you ask for someone to pray for you?

I suppose this would require knowledge of what prayer is. I do a quick write up in the green text of >>133823620

The Christian worldview upholds that our actions or inactions - regardless of situation - affect the rest of creation. As such as should see all of us - all of creation - as one union guided by God. This is where the image of us all being part of the "Body of Christ" comes about. Because of this, praying for others is seen as a way to greater bring about God's will for us in a larger scale. This is hoped to be understood as resulting is material/physical benefit - and I won't fuck with you, it's often seen by non-Catholics and some lay Catholics as wish-fulfillment - but it does not need be necessarily.

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REMINDER THAT TRADITION IS THE FUTURE:

In the last week alone:

FSSP have ordained the same number of men as were ordained in the whole of England & Wales in 2016

https://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2017/07/fssp-sets-personal-record-for-most.html

Institute of Christ the King held ordination after ordination in Florence (really recommend you check the pics)

http://www.icrsp.org/Pages/photo-quotidienne-ordinations-2017.html

SSPX ordained 9 priests & 6 deacons in the US

https://www.instagram.com/explore/locations/1006569147/?hl=en

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>>133825230
To be honest I find it silly too. It's really just keeping to old cultural traditions.

>>133826636
Again this is a red herring because we already have in the works that are supposed to be divinely inspired things like this,

Genesis 19:1Thetwo angelscame to Sodom in the evening; and Lot was sitting in the gate of Sodom.When Lot saw them, he rose to meet them, and bowed himself with his face to the earth,

>>133824783

Do you not ask your family and friends to pray for you when you are going through hard times?

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going to mass in 2h. how about you pol

>>133826211
Dude you mare making stuff up the four definitions of invoke by Webster dictionary is

1 : to petition for help or support
2 : to appeal to or cite as authority
3: to call forth by incantation : conjure
4:to make an earnest request for : solicit
5:to put into effect or operation : implement


Nope invoke means to call on for help or support which in that verse did neither, there was no request made he called on the sun the moon the angles the heavenly host and all of creation to worship God that is not invoking a specific angel or saint like you catholic do at all

Is this a Vatican 2 Apostate General or a Catholic General btw?

>>133826659
I didnt mean praying for others, i meant praying through others -- wouldn't it be better to have a more direct relationship with God?

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>>133825490
>I heard Christianity says people don't exist as men and women in heaven. Explain this to me.

Those people are stupid. Probably view Heaven as a disembodied state with God rather than a resurrection of the dead.

>>133825975
Reading list here: >>133818690
First two are specifically Catholic books. NABRE is the easiest to read of the two.

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>>133817789

Funny, why do the Jesuits have both a symbol of paganism, the Sol and the Templar Knights cross in the middle of their insignia. Even more can you explain the Templar banking system and the evolution of their usury as a blight on the lives of men?

The Pope is the antichrist!

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>>133826666
YOU'RE WELCOME FOR GETTING QUADS AND DECIDING THE FATE OF THE CHURCH

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>>133826750
Nobody cares

>>133826711
old testament different rules lot also had sex with his daughters maybe god could tell him that was not right also?

>>133826854
>Vatican 2 Apostate

Numerology is Jewish Satanism.

But you are right, Tradition is an important element of the Church.

>>133826750

Ive been up all night, so no.

I am a lazy fat piece of shit.

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Some more news:

Welcome home to any Puerto Rican ex-Orthobros

>The Orthodox Church of Puerto Rico enters into communion with the Catholic Church.

https://holysynergy.wordpress.com/2017/07/11/breaking-news-the-orthodox-church-of-puerto-rico-enters-into-communion-with-the-catholic-church/

Congrats to any Catholads near Baltimore. You're getting an FSSP apostolate at St. Alphonsus' Church. Starts 1st August.

https://dclatinmass.com/2017/07/09/fr-kiefer-fssp-to-become-pastor-of-baltimore-st-alphonsus/

>>133819300
My comment about universalism wasn't in reference to anything you said in particular, but a problem I have with Catholicism. The whole no borders mentality with proselytizing reminds me of Trotky's international communism. It doesn't help that I believe the spread of Catholicism and it's establishment as a global religion is what brought, or hastened, its downfall concluding with Vatican II and now with the commie Pope. Thinks like liberation theology would've never happened had people kept to themselves. Full disclosure, I'm neither Catholic nor Christian, though a former Catholic and an atheist/agnostic who is sympathetic and supportive of Christianity in general

Could you expand on these issues you believe exist? I don't know where you'd start cutting out the cancer because it's spread so far through the institution. Large swathes of the constituents of the Church could be salvaged, but the Vatican and priesthood has deep issues. The removal of the clergy from their respected position around the beginning of the 19th century has made the priesthood into shadow of its former self. The quality of priests and others has gone down significantly. Meanwhile you have liberalization coming from the top down to fit with the current political climate, and if that weren't bad enough the Church refuses to rein in any parishes that are straying from official theology even further.

It's not even something that happened a long time ago and is starting to improve. 15 years ago I remember masses where the priest would talk about the immorality of abortion and make not so subtle allusions to politics. Now we have years of forgiveness for people who are murdering babies according to the Church. If it were just "please don't stone them to death, God will do the judging" it'd be different. It's active acceptance instead. There are no standards, everything is forgivable. Why even bother being Christian if your behavior and beliefs don't change anything?

>>133826872
God cares.

>>133826626

no psalms is about that everything should praise god

>Praise the Lord From the Heavens!

1Praise ye the LORD. Praise ye the LORD from the heavens: praise him in the heights.

2Praise ye him, all his angels: praise ye him, all his hosts.

3Praise ye him, sun and moon: praise him, all ye stars of light.

4Praise him, ye heavens of heavens, and ye waters that be above the heavens.

5Let them praise the name of the LORD: for he commanded, and they were created.

6He hath also stablished them for ever and ever: he hath made a decree which shall not pass.

7Praise the LORD from the earth, ye dragons, and all deeps:

8Fire, and hail; snow, and vapour; stormy wind fulfilling his word:

9Mountains, and all hills; fruitful trees, and all cedars:

10Beasts, and all cattle; creeping things, and flying fowl:

11Kings of the earth, and all people; princes, and all judges of the earth:

12Both young men, and maidens; old men, and children:

13Let them praise the name of the LORD: for his name alone is excellent; his glory is above the earth and heaven.

14He also exalteth the horn of his people, the praise of all his saints; even of the children of Israel, a people near unto him. Praise ye the LORD.

>>133826757
It isn't. Sorry if linguistics is too hard for you. In fact the very root word of the word "invoke" literally means "to call upon" And this is in fact what most would think off when the word comes to mind.

>There was no request made
There is to praise God. The Pslamist is entreating them to praise God and this in a sense is pretty much a request

>>133826952
>not an argument
Time to reject it

>>133827104
Again now you are just repeating that which I had already addressed

What profit hath a man from all his labour which he taketh under the sun?

>>133827132
Here is one example of "invoke" the moment you Google it,

>call on (a deity or spirit) in prayer, as a witness, or for inspiration.
Again notice, "call upon". The angels were called upon to worship god

>>133827160

How is that not a argument ? are you a jew or a christian?

>>133827330
Luke 24:4-5While they were perplexed about this, behold, two men stood by them in dazzling apparel; [5] and as they were frightened andbowed their faces to the ground, the men said to them, “Why do you seek the living among the dead?”

Same thing happening right there. They bowed to angels

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>>133826431
I unironically believe Protestantism is heresy and believe the path to salvation only with the Catholic Church. However, the church is the sum of its parts and Protestants carry elements of the faith with them. And what they lack of often without better knowledge (putting them not exactly explicitly doing mortal sins in many cases) and so I could hope for their salvation but I could not guarantee it as they are being led astray.


You?

>>133826803
Through our union with the Body of Christ we are in greater union with God as well. No man is an island. A more direct relationship with God involves union with the Body of Christ. There's no one or the other.

You do not necessarily have to pray for others or ask others to pray for you - but you don't necessarily HAVE to pray to God either. All of them come about from expressing your Christian lifestyle and views.

>>133826666
>not in Europe and can't enjoy

>>133826750
I haven't slept yet because of this thread.
I'll be attending late. You enjoy yourself, though, Anon.

>>133826821
>Funny, why do the Jesuits have...

The IHS is a christogram.
The three nails are obvious.
The 'sun' imagery is reference to a monstrance.
The cross pattee reference is incomplete and doesn't have an origin in the Templars at all. Further, it is taking roman nail images to form a cross shape, hence why it differs from the normal cross patte shape at the bottom.

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>>133826984
>The Orthodox Church of Puerto Rico enters into communion with the Catholic Church.

W H A T
THATS FANTASTIC

>>133827000
>The whole no borders mentality with proselytizing reminds me of Trotky's international communism
It's the Jesuits that are going around in Africa and it's because post-Vatican2 popes have been focused on secular popularity.

>>133827468
>5And as they were afraid, and bowed down their faces to the earth, they said unto them, Why seek ye the living among the dead?


>how is this in any way bowing down out of worship ?

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>>133827276
Play better games.

>>133827807
>in worship
The point isn't that worship of saints or angels is acceptable. The point is their veneration or showing reverence towards them is which is what happened right there in Luke. You would be foolish to think they were also not awed at what they saw

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I'm heading to bed.
Goodnight, /pol/. Have a good time at mass.

>>133827800
Oh yes, I've spent enough time around Jesuits to be aware. They represent all that is wrong with the Church, although they do tend to be good people. They're like liberals without the laziness and self-righteousness. They have good intentions and a genuine desire to help but have no clue what is the right path. The difference is liberals don't have the will to rehabilitate gang members and travel to third world shitholes. All the theology in regards to them is fucked up beyond belief though

>>133827292
Even in your own definition you prove yourself wrong,

>call on (a deity or spirit) IN PRAYER, as a witness, or for inspiration.

What is the definition of prayer?

>a solemn REQUEST for help or expression of thanks addressed to God or an object of
worship

So i ask again what request did David make that verse you posted? There was no request made and therefore no invocation

>>133827958
'Night Wolfshiem. I'm listening to Wolfshiem right now in your memory.

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>>133827807
> 25And as Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him, and fell down at his feet, and worshipped him. 26But Peter took him up, saying, Stand up; I myself also am a man.

Peter tells us dont worship and bow to a man

John tells us this counts also for angels

>>133828037
>call upon
That is basically what invoke is at its basic. And every time it is used especially in all the examples showed to us in Merriam Webster, it is always to "call upon".

But let's go further we could say that what the Pslamist is saying is in fact prayer and what is to be inspired? To praise and worship God

>>133828090
The word uses for "worship" there is one used for Jesus elsewhere in the NT. I wondered why Peter didn't rebuke those who laid out the sick so that his shadow can pass right through them?

>>133827936
>The point isn't that worship of saints or angels is acceptable.

No it is not the last book of the bible teaches us that , just like we dont worship man >>133828090

>>133828265
Saints are not worshipped so irrelevant

>>133828395
Just because you call it different does not make it something else


worship
ˈwəːʃJp/
noun
noun: worship; noun: His Worship; noun: Your Worship; plural noun: Worships

1.
the feeling or expression of reverence and adoration for a deity.
"worship of the Mother Goddess"
synonyms: reverence, revering, worshipping, veneration, venerating, adoration, adoring, -olatry, devotion, praise, thanksgiving, praising, praying to, glorification, glorifying, glory, exaltation, exalting, extolment, extolling, homage, respect, honour, honouring, esteem; dulia, latria;
rarelaudation, magnification

>>133828173
>That is basically what invoke is at its basic. And every time it is used especially in all the examples showed to us in Merriam Webster, it is always to "call upon".

Thats just not true though......

>But let's go further we could say that what the Pslamist is saying is in fact prayer and what is to be inspired? To praise and worship God

Yes we should praise and worship God alone not angels or heavenly hosts like the ancient isralies did just God and that means only praying to God like every other disciple and prophet has done and like Jesus told us to do

>After this manner therefore pray you: Our Father which are in heaven, Hallowed be your name. Your kingdom come, Your will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For your is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.

>>133817789
just came home from church and bought a rosary, now searching some sites on how to properly pray the rosary the traditional way

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>>133817789
The traditional morality, the hierarchy, the aesthetics, everything about Catholicism (at least the old school, not the current Pope's gay liberal no-borders refugee cock sucking kind) are incredibly appealing to me. Even more so everything else that would go along with it: the afterlife, a true higher power, the community, the new meaning to my life etc. would be so much better than what I have right now. I just... I just can't convince myself that god exists, I simply can't see any really convincing evidence or argument out there.

Am I just doomed to be a Catholic in an atheists consciousness?
Any converts who were previously atheist/agnostic?

I really hate being an atheist but I haven't been persuaded otherwise and I don't see that happening any time soon.

>>133828666
This is how St. Francis De Sales said it http://sspx.ca/en/how-pray-rosary-st-francis-de-sales

>>133829243
I didn't really believe until I guess mid 20s and coming a little bit too close to death. I guess that's not uncommon.

But much earlier than that I was already pretty well convinced that there is much more to reality than we understand.

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>>133817789
>religion
now, i understand that you can like something solely for the idea but if you actually believe that god and all the shenanigans that happened before some sort of god was born youre actually autistic.
just my le two euro cents. ecks dee

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>>133817789
A V E M A R I A
V
E

M
A
R
I
A

>>133829243
>traditional morality, the hierarchy, the aesthetics,


Don't forget the literature and philosophy. I was baptized Catholic, and did not discover the rich heritage of Catholicism until I was in my 30's.

So why didn't I know about any of it, if I was raised Catholic? The Catholic Church has done this to themselves. I am returning to the One, True, Catholic Apostolic church, not the post-Vatican II gay Jesuit faggot SJW bullshit Satanic crap we have now.

>>133829402
That's fair, but I haven't had any kind of life-threatening experience to catalyse a belief in the divine.

>>133829638
Oh man I completely agree, the heritage and the writings of Catholicism are incredible. I started reading some really old stuff a few years ago and it was mind-blowing, even just the prose itself was beautiful. And yes, the current Pope is something entirely hellish, seems like the kind of guy who would genuinely consider or go through with what the Vatican did in Camp of the Saints.

>>133821305
Scandal may be overplayed in Burgerland but definitely not in other places

Irishfag here, it was insanely widespread and the church didn't lift a finger to stop it until they were exposed

how many anons realised we are living in chapter 20 of revelations?

>>133829972

tell us more

>>133828090
Peter was a humble man. Plus dulia is not latria.
Also:
>using good goy pictures in theological discussion
>on /pol/

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I hate this naziism. I am ostracized from it because their genocidal tendencies I strongly disagree with. Their purity fetish disturbs me deeply. I'm 1/8 non and I can never reconcile it. Their radicalism is so prone to violent tendencies and despotism. Even if I were pure I would still feel this way, it's not right and it's a dark path with death at the end. And emptiness.
I will never knowingly set my descendants down a path for second rate citizenship or persecution.
I am denouncing ethno nationalism.
I am ending my use of marijuana.
I am cutting off my ties to heathen women.
God knows it's hard for me, and I have a faint disbelief in myself even as I write this. I want to believe the path to a better future is not through hyper ethno nationalism, and that I am strong enough to live without intoxicating myself, and that I can refrain from indulging in the pleasures of the flesh. I've done a lot of work already on eliminating these elements from my life already, but I am not quite there.
I need community and support from you people. If there is a discord or something I can join, I know there are many but I'm not in them...
I can't do this by myself and I can't turn to the church community because I have work complications keeping me from going to bible study, and I cannot confess properly until then, and I am afraid to express my problems outside of the confidence of confession.
Help me /pol/tholics. I need you. I feel like I've come so far alone already and it's just too hard to go the rest of the way, I'm too scared I will fall again like so many other times.
I want to believe the universalism and morality of Christian faith is true and right. Relevant Tocqueville quote:
>I am unaware of his plans but I shall never stop believing in them because I cannot fathom them and I prefer to mistrust my own intellectual capacities than his justice.

Cute christchan makes me feel better about my pain.

>>133829638

Get off your high horse. There is nothing wrong with Vatican II. It was just a natural step to take to adapt to the times. Just like the Church has always done. Because Christ's Church is a living Church.

I don't know if I can call myself a "traditionalist". I confess every week, abstain on fridays, go to latin mass every so often. But only as a personal act of devotion. I don't look down on people as not being "true Catholics" just because they don't do what I do. That is not showing spiritual humility.

I still have the utmost faith in Christ's living Church and would never leave it cling to something dead.

>>133829972

I am pretty sure that the false prophet is still active and the beast system
Revelation 17
>17For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled. 18

Revelation 19
>17And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; 18That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

>19And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

>20And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. 21And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

>>133830205
>It was just a natural step to take to adapt to the times.

Read the Council of Trent. The Church does not change for the times. Truth does not change.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTYkvsQd18M

>>133830321
hint:do you even know what mark of the beast means according to the bible?

>>133830472

Truth is Dogma.
Dogma cannot change.

And no Dogma was changed at V2

But the Church has a rich history of constantly evolving theology and tradition.
More was changed at the Council of Trent than at V2

>>133830786

<no Dogma was changed at V2

Father Hesse, who was a Canononical Secreatry at the Vatican, would disagree with you.

Religion is for the basic mind.

>>133830621

>16And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: 17And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. 18Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.


This is about changing the sabbath to sunday , the days the shops were closed are now on sunday thus you cannot buy and sell if you keep the sabbath on saturday

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>tfw the old-school Catholic in you seriously starts contemplating the idea that your cigarette smoking and drug habits are forms of demonic possession

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Bump
have good time at mass you Catholic bros

>>133831082

I know what you mean. And I wonder if that worldview would actually make a man stronger in life than the current psycho-babble bullshit we live under now.

>>133831029
more hint: better read the story of solomon again especially the part where he got 'how many talents of gold' from the 'gentiles' plus it will hint you about 'Jezebel' in revelations

>>133830980
Atheist here, spirituality is fundamental to humans, though how it takes form varies widely. Organized religion is the obvious evolution of vague spirituality. Logically, I think it's disingenuous to claim knowledge either way and you should just try to be a good person, but I'm hardly going to criticize people for not taking my position of not taking a position. Mind explaining why you disagree?

>>133831082

No. Thinking all psychological and physical disturbances are caused by demons is a folly.

Any excorcist will tell you that there is a very clear distinction between mental illness and demonic posession.

>2017
>Worshipping the demiurge

>>133831241

I dont see anything but the 666 talents is there some kind of code in the numbers?

>six hundred threescore and six talents of gold, 15Beside that he had of the merchantmen, and of the traffick of the spice merchants, and of all the kings of Arabia, and of the governors of the country. 16And king Solomon made two hundred targets of beaten gold: six hundred shekels of gold went to one target. 17And he made three hundred shields of beaten gold; three pound of gold went to one shield: and the king put them in the house of the forest of Lebanon. 18Moreover the king made a great throne of ivory, and overlaid it with the best gold. 19The throne had six steps, and the top of the throne was round behind: and there were stays on either side on the place of the seat, and two lions stood beside the stays. 20And twelve lions stood there on the one side and on the other upon the six steps: there was not the like made in any kingdom. 21And all king Solomon's drinking vessels were of gold, and all the vessels of the house of the forest of Lebanon were of pure gold; none were of silver: it was nothing accounted of in the days of Solomon. 22For the king had at sea a navy of Tharshish with the navy of Hiram: once in three years came the navy of Tharshish, bringing gold, and silver, ivory, and apes, and peacocks.

>>133823816
Why doesnt the pope get the vatican police to throw out the sodomites?

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>>133817789
I just came back from Holy Mass, the priest reminded us to review our faith and make sure that we do not stay on superficial level in our relationship with Christ.

Since I went to confession and started receiving the Holy Eucharist again, I feel much better in my life. Have a blessed sunday, catholic anons. May the Lord's grace shield you from the omnipresent degeneracy .

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>>133831564
This is true but all sin is a gateway to possession and demonic attack.

>>133831748
its in 1st king 10:14 just depending on the version.
also sun, moon and stars refers to pastors,evangalist and congregation members which is like the story of Joseph (old testament) when he had the vision of sun, moon and stars.

>>133831823
That's a good question.

The lack of firm action on the part of the vatican to purge the evil within is probably my biggest complaint (maybe outside of importing the caliphate, who are also pedos and rapists). Perhaps with the threat of going after the pedos in the US government we might see the state correctly assert its authority to deal with this kind of criminality.

Maybe the Vatican City won't do anything on its own soil, but it does not have jurisdiction over the rest of the world's soil.

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>>133831983

>>133829243
Dude I was where you were some months ago. Just pray and go to Church, even if you areI n't feeling it. If you keep at it God will come to you in good time. 'Fake it 'til you make it' is how it was described to me on this very board. It's still difficult at times, not gonna lie, but it's worth it.

>>133830125
Bump this cryfaggotry.
I'm going to go to mass today. It will be hard cause I am working 12 hours ending at 6am and another 12 at 6pm tonight, and mass is at 10. I guess I'll nap before I go cause it's gonna be rough. I haven't gone in so long.
What is an appropriate cash offering to bring?

>>133832245
>Fake it 'til you make it

>tfw it might have been me who told you that
lol

>>133832370
it was in another one of wolfshiem's threads in like early february or so. if it was you, then i offer sincere thanks because your advice works

>>133829243
>>133832245
This actually works. I was an atheist and I found God through suspended disbelief.
Only I found the Pagan god first... but I went to church and many other religious practices to test my theory as well. And I will say this...
The Christian God is the most intense. The hardest for me to deny.

>>133831457
Good to hear from atheist who is not a fag Define good person

>>133832513
fug that sounds even more like me. Well I guess I can't be pure evil if at some point I might have typed something into the internet that was helpful for somebody else.

>>133821305
>Very overplayed stuff, that whole Catholic pedophilia scandal.

its not the overplayed that is the issue, it is that you harbor it, the fact that you go hush hush and don't write a letter to your bishop or whatever to condemn it and ask the pedophiles expelled , shows you are a church fanatic and not a Christian

>>133832245
>>133832549
See this really doesn't sound appealing to me. 'Fake it 'til you make it' sounds like an awful way to start to believe in something - even if it did work you'd know that your entire faith is based off of a non-existent foundation. If it worked for you guys then that's great but there's no way I can make myself do something for which I have no belief in until I somehow start to. The only way I can see myself coming to faith is through some kind of cataclysmic personal experience, not a gradual build up.
I'm not somebody who could go through the motions until they're so ingrained by rote that I myself couldn't tell the difference between what I'm doing genuinely and what I'm simply imitating. That's not belief to me.
Appreciate the input though.

>>133823816
and what YOU do about sexabuse, why you compare others , youre a hypocrite you just present it as normal instead of eradicating it , shame on you, corrupt papacy

>you are not the church of Christ but just a methodist church with its own arbitrary regulations and you are pretty evil if you just try to protect your own even if kiddie fiddlers

>>133833110
I think the idea is not to delude yourself until you can't tell the difference or not. When I was a child the one thing I liked about church that wasn't boring was listening to the music and there was one song with the lyrics

>If today you hear his voice, harden not your heart

So it's like the earlier posts wondering what it means to let Jesus in to your heart or whatever. Maybe it just means leaving yourself open to the possibility in case some personal experience does occur at some point.

>>133833110
You are not tricking yourself. You need to suspend disbelief to clear your mind enough to let the Holy Spirit reach you.
When you feel it running through your body, vibrating and pulsating through you from one end to the other, like a wild and untamed fire, you will know that what you experienced was not your mind playing tricks on you.

>>133833481
thats what it means faith is not just to abide to a far belief , it i experiential and you lear it little by little , you don't start with faking it it's not a social club , that's totally wrong ... you start by thirsting to know what it is

>>133821305
>Very overplayed stuff, that whole Catholic pedophilia scandal
Doubt the thousands of boys who were raped by clergy think that. But as an ex-Catholic I understand where it comes from. Protection and adoration of the church above all else. Bending the facts of the situation, along with a dose of "God has a plan..." to minimize the damage. If Catholics put God first instead of their Church I wonder if the situation would have been different.

>>133826666
>Leaving the church instead of working against the infiltrated evil.
I have a feeling this has contributed to the Gay Mafia being so powerful within the vatican.

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>>133818186
How do you think a random jew in the middle east would look in 1 BCE.?

>>133834987
Who said anything about leaving? The first two orgs are in full communion with the Church. And SSPX have ability to ordain priests, officiate weddings & hear confessions.

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>>133835652
>*whistling*

>>133817789
>tripfag
>virtuous life
How about living a life knowing you have been saved by the actions of the man that the church is based upon? Protip: It ain't the pope!

Accept Jesus's blood as payment for your sins and be saved. God loves us to where he became flesh and came down here to personally die to pay for YOUR sins. Accept the payment. Believe it. He did it because we cannot.

>>133836556

Apostolic Succession. Learn more about these two words put together please.

>>133818690
>subverted
Ignatius Loyola? The guy who promised to kill protestants and cut open their wombs and throw their babies against the walls?
>accepted bible versions
I see that KJV isn't listed. Is it because you control freaks are upset that it showed the common man that the whole point of the book is foreshadowing the arrival of Christ? Fuck the pope. Our FATHER does not need a vicar on this earth. He is here with us in spirit and you had better get your story straight and come to Christ before he actually gets here physically.

>>133819971
PREACH BROTHER

>>133817789
how is corruption within the church justified ? if the pope is god's chosen then how come there are bad popes

>>133836796
Read your bible and ignore this made up bullshit, please. Christian religion isn't about getting together to eat Christ and control.your community. Its about giving the true gospel, from the bible, to win souls to God in this battle against Satan, who invariably runs your "church". If you can sit here and try to defend your "church" then you have not done your research.

>>133819971

nah. Protestantism can't even decided on simple things on which to follow. This is why it has split into 1000s of different factions all working against itself. Does that sound like Gods Will to you? Acquiring the Holy Spirit is done through actions, not belief alone.

Confession isn't even done in Prostestant belief. There is no way for you to feel the full weight of the sin, and begin to heal from it, and most importantly stop doing it! Instead you've changed out Spiritual Advisors with secular physiatrists who tell you everything you do it ok.

>>133837180
Its not. Catholicism today is left over 18th century consolidation of power with church and state. The king ran shit, the bishops wanted to party with the king, so they corrupted the religion that came from the Bible in a way that commoners had to show up every SUNday, tell a priest all their secrets, pay for salvation literally with gold/property, and let the most desirable young girls and children be used sexually by both the king and the priests. Corruption is inherent in the Catholic "universal" church. Protestantism, precisely Baptist, is the best system. Decentralized nodes of Bible believing Christians who will not hesitate to defend the words of God in the KJV bible or themselves when the Antichrist, working through the Catholic church, attempts to cleanse the world of true Christians.

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>>133818186
Fake news, pic related is what actual Palestinian men like Christ and the Apostles looked like(note that Judas is described as a redhead)

>>133837531
You are a fucking moron.
Where does THE BIBLE place works above belief in the context of the holy spirit? Inb4 "faith without works is dead".
I feel the weight of my sins by going DIRECTLY to the intercessor, JESUS CHRIST, and immediately feel the relief of the comforter THE HOLY SPIRIT, and the love of Christ by knowing that he died on the cross specifically for MY sins. How is going to see another mere mortal, equally lost soul as I, and telling him my sins gonna help? He can't do a thing about my falling short in the eyes of the Lord.

>>133837613

yeah. Baptists sure have done wonders for those blacks in the US south! kek.

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>>133837613
I argue my case for each country have its own Orthodox Church in its own language that places its faith on the early church fathers and holy saints like they have already in Orthodoxy.

It won't be quick and it better start soon before the degeneracy continues to escalate up to a sodom and gomorrah levels in the west triggering a nuclear war.

The talmudist jews know their black magic and that's the real reason they encourage their filth-golem jews to shit allover the west with faggotry and transexualism.

>>133838016
I am black and my city is called "the cradle of the confederacy". The Baptist church led me to Christ and I am no longer hellbound as a result. So yes, it has done wonders. You know I am right.

>>133838154
This would be fine. The universal church must be decentralized, but I fear it is too late.

>>133837999

You forgot to adress the fact that Protestanism can't even agree what to follow and is split into 1000s factions all working against itself. I know you "forgot" to address it since you have no way to defend this, and you know it isn't Gods Will. You have no idea what confession is yet here you are railing against it. You clearly are not humble enough to take advice some another, really sad and it is your undoing.

Confession is a direct line to Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit.

If you keep sinning the exact same way over and over, yet always asking for forgiveness. You aren't actually sorry.

>>133838401

This explains the hyper-emotional responses, illogical arguments, and name calling. It all makes sense now.

>>133838895
Hahahaha. Hyper emotional because I am defending my faith. Name calling because its the internet, heretic faggot.

Because of Jesus’ sacrifice, we can now approach God’s throne with boldness (Hebrews 4:16). The temple veil tearing in two at Jesus’ death was symbolic of the dividing wall between God and humanity being destroyed. We can approach God directly, ourselves, without the use of a human mediator. Why? Because Jesus Christ is our great High Priest (Hebrews 4:14-15; 10:21)

Also, was that racism I detected? Cause Jesus spoke against that too. Apostate.

I hope it triggers you that my white wife and our children are lying in bed right now, not worshipping the SUN on SUNday, as I reach them about the real way to be saved and be close to God.

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Reminder that without God you will never have a cohesive non-authoritarian society. At the root of modern society, there is no justification for 'moral' acts. The only justification offered by atheists is that 'morality' is a remnant from an earlier stage of evolution. But this does not compel anyone to act 'morally'. Anyone being immoral is merely being a rebel ahead of his time. Inevitable, there will be some who say 'morals don't exist'. Which is the only logical argument from an atheist point, & that can be covered too, but it should be clear societies can't function without a shared morality, & atheism renders this impossible

>>133840233
>Reminder that without God you will never have a cohesive non-authoritarian society.

Like China had for longer than the West?

>>133840337
Do you mean pre-Communist China in which the Emperor was literally said to have the 'Mandate of Heaven', or Communist, therefore authoritarian, China?

>>133839262

Based black guy, i still hate jews niggers and muslims

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>Pagans have Varg
>Ancaps have Molymeme
>Atheists have Sargon

What meme e-celeb do us Catholics and Christians have to look up to?

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>>133839262
>not worshipping the SUN on SUNday
you might want to read what tripfag wolfsheim wrote in this thread before you go shitposting around like a raging faggot
and its not worshipping the sun, sunday isnt called like that in other languages, for example in most slavic countries its nedelja or similar and that is from "ne delati" which translates to not working (or literally "not doing" or even "dont do/work")

>>133842826
>What meme e-celeb do us Catholics and Christians have to look up to?
we dont have meme celebs
but we have jesus

>>133828636
It is. In fact every example Merriam-Webster gives is pretty clear on the "calling upon" aspect of Invoke

The Pslamist invokes the angelic beings and there are instances where angels are bowed to in the OT. In the NT we get instances of people bowing down to the Apostles which would happen at the laying of hands

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>>133820286
>not rejecting any criticism of Trump out of hand, regardless of what quarter it comes from
top pleb

Can someone give me some bible verses to help me believe in the Lord? I know christianity is good for the west, but I am having trouble believing fully that God is real. I lack the faith, but I want to believe bad.

>>133818690
Eastern Orthodox Bible for NT
Douay Challons for OT, and NETS Septuagint for the books not in Douay bible

>>133818690
You read book of Enoch? Ethiopian church considers it canon as did a lot of church fathers

>>133818817
OSB is just an edited KJV. Get the Eastern Orthodox Bible for a new translation

>>133847086
"Lord I believe, help my unbelief." Mark 9:24

I suppose that's a good meditation. But if you are, say, interested in history, simply read about the historicity of the resurrection. I'd recommend the lecture by NT Wright or Gary Habermas. Put simply, the actual resurrection of Jesus is the single best explanation for the rise of Christianity.

>>133820680
Sounds like pantheism cultural relativism and hippie free love

>>133824783
Saints are literally in direct union with god. They are the humans closest to him so it makes sense that they can offer the best prayers to god on your behalf

>>133826803
The only way to have a direct relationship with god is through the Eucharist where you become one body with Christ. This is temporary union as sin obscures and severs it until you confess and take the Eucharist again

>>133829243
Watch inspiringphilosophy YouTube channel:

The cosmological argument
The teleological argument
The ontological argument

This is evidence and proof of god's existence. Equipped with this theism is an easy choice

>>133830472
Truth doesn't change but Humans change as they discover truth

>>133848478
Thanks. Yeah I love history; i will check it out.

>>133842826
Jordan Peterson

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How can I become closer to God when I fall for the way of sin every day?

why the fuck is this thread still up

>>133851403

What sin ? porn ? fapping? if it would be easy to beat the devil would never put his focus on it

>>133817789
I was brought up in a non religious environment by my parents, and I thank them for that. Lately I've started to feel like my life has no meaning, and that made me start to become interested in religion. I do believe that there is something greater than all of us, but my idea doesn't really match with Catholicism. My question here is, what do I do now? More and more young people here hate religion, but I don't feel like them. Also, it would be weird for someone like me to suddenly become Catholic (I'm 18 btw).

I would love it if you gave me some advice, thanks.

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Are SSPX masses ok to go to? I almost asked my priest after bible study yesterday but I did not want to look like a filthy schismatic IRL in front of all my bible study bros

>>133851403
Dont be discouraged, because there's more than enough forgiveness for you.

Pray to Him. Ask him for help.

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Stop touching children

>>133852704
fapping, slumbering, dishonesty

>>133853046
>My question here is, what do I do now?
It's like anything else in life. You have to do your own research. Look in to it, look in to alternatives. I will give you some good advice from somebody who live his life along dark roads:

>When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro
-Hunter S. Thomson (RIP)

>>133854342
well its a renegade catholic , try an orthodox one too to see how the vibe gets ya

why are christcucks the loudest to condemn degeneracy yet the also the loudest to scream degenerate swear words and racial insults?
e.g. "faggot kike gas yourself, muh jesus saves!"

Chritos voskrese !

Have a friendly bump you lovely little heretics

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>>133859188
shut up already turkish arab khazar semitic subhuman kike

>>133859209
Indeed He is risen !
Christ is king.

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I've done some really, really bad things and I was wondering if I'm still able to be redeemed in the eyes of Christ.

>>133859714
not exactly redeeming yourself, kiddo

>>133859864
Whether it's to a priest or not, you should probably confess your sins to somebody because otherwise they will eat at you and you won't redeem yourself regardless of how Christ views you.

Fellow catholic here.

Help me, brethren.

I want proofs that the papal supremacy and infallibility are not innovations of the roman church. I am leaning towards orthodoxy, but I still believe in the catholic church (not the second vatican council though).

The orthodox have pretty legit points, like the donation of Constantine, the alteration of the creed of the apostles and early church letters that deny papal supremacy and infallibility.

>>133859864
the thing is God doesnt accept even the tiniest little sin, nobody is worth saving
only accepting Jesus as Christ you can be saved

>>133817789
I'm Catholic, but am very dismayed about Pope Francis. The Pope actively comments about politics in our country, about our President who actively wants to involve God back into our society. And the Pope chooses to attack us and our President chiding us? wtf?! As leader of the Church, isn't he based enough to realize that our President is helping people back to Church?

>>133862771
wait we are worth but not desserve it, i think lol

>>133863278

No single deed that we could do can bring us salvation except the mercy of God. And how do you receive mercy ? Through Christ and his body.

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>>133863533
You better start praying, Hans.

>>133864378

In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, Amen.
Illumine our hearts, O Master Who lovest mankind, with the pure light of Thy divine
knowledge. Open the eyes of our mind to the understanding of Thy gospel teachings.
Implant also in us the fear of Thy blessed commandments, that trampling down all carnal
desires, we may enter upon a spiritual manner of living, both thinking and doing such
things as are well-pleasing unto Thee. For Thou art the illumination of our souls and
bodies, O Christ our God, and unto Thee we ascribe glory, together with Thy Father,
Who is from everlasting, and Thine all-holy, good, and life-creating Spirit, now and
ever and unto ages of ages. Amen.

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>>133865154

>>133857175
I am still a catholic and i dont want to go to an orthodox church. I do go to their food festival though

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>>133819300
When do we start a revolution at the Vatican and purge the pedos and free mason Satanists?

>>133866340
what's stopping you?

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>>133865373
why not, they're not your enemy, you won't be a Catholic for long if you want to be a real Christian

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>>133827000
>t's active acceptance instead. There are no standards, everything is forgivable. Why even bother being Christian if your behavior and beliefs don't change anything?
They are doing what jesus commanded! Act however you want and have faith in Jesus - he WILL forgive and let you in to Heaven!

>>133868820
tell this to them >>133867527

>>133866340
never goy, turn the other cheeck 8)