Explain to me how taxation isn't theft. >inb4: every

Muh roads.

>>133666293
Because you're paying for services such as the police, firefighters, sewage, roads, schools etc.

>HURR DURR I DON'T WANT TO PAY FOR SCHOOLS I DON'T HAVE KIDS
That may be true, but you can pay less to schools or don't own property and you won't pay for it. You pay a premium to education to get a good school for your kids. Hence why good schools are funded in richer neighborhoods. YOu wouldn't want your cute daughter to be mingling with a bunch of thugs and become a coal burner, so you have her go to a predominately white neighborhood by living and paying for the education and location.

>>133667046
unfair straw man argument.

>>133666293
Taxes when actually spent right is to better our daily lives.

Taxes are the price we pay for living in a civilized society.

The alternative is Somalia and shitting in the streets.

>>133667285
unfair straw man argument.

>>133667046
What if I want to pay for schools, but private ones rather than public? Why do you am I forced to pay for a school chosen by someone else rather than choose any school for my child?

>>133666293
It actually is theft but it's a necessary sacrifice to make if you want to preserve the best working form of human civilization that we know of

Veil of ignorance my nigga

>>133666293
Property is theft.

Taxation requires enforcement. Enforcement requires funding. Funding requires taxation.

Taxation is teft.

Therefore property is theft.

>muh statists

Without a "state" you are essentially responsible for enforcing your own claims to property rights. In that case, theft wouldn't exist since property would be defined by whoever had the biggest gun

Nobody is forcing you to pay taxes. You're free to leave.

>>133667046
Also if your example contradicts itself. In the current system you don't choose your school, you get whatever school is in your location. If the closest school is with a bunch of thugs then your daughter will be a coal burner even if you would prefer to drive her to the school across town. Why not give parents a choice rather than force them to get what they get?

>>133667522
unfair straw man argument.

>>133667563
Unfair strawman argument

>>133666293
tanishaquanisha's 40 children are a good use of your taxes, racist! government, that can just forcefully take your money provides better service than people who would have to compete for your money!

>>133667616
unfair straw man argument.

>>133667497
>Property is theft
fucking idiot

Okay I now declare that i can rule over your body. Why shouldn't I? Property is theft so your body doesn't belong to anyone right? If it doesn't belong to anyone I can do to it whatever I want without bearing responsibility

>>133667497
Without a state you ARE NOT responsible for enforcing your own claims to property rights. However, you ARE responsible to find someone willing to offer those services for you. There's already private security companies so I'm not sure how this one went over your head.

>>133667617
This guy gets it. Get rid of the federal government and then blacks can't feed their kids and they die off. Current system whites pay for black people's kids but can't pay for their own. It's bullshit yet you statists praise the cultural marxists in charge of your governments that are literally killing of your people.

>>133667657
You are vastly misinterpreting my point.
>>133667697
Yes you are. Without enforcement a claim to property means nothing. You might as well just piss on a tree and call it yours

>>133666293
Stay off the public roads then faggot

>>133666293
Roads, public illumination, firemen, police all are things you use (or would if it was the case) and need money.

>>133667697
Also how would you enforce those contracts? With more hired security? Well how do you enforce those contracts

>>133666293

It's not. It's armed robbery, which is a slightly different category.

>>133667560
Because you cant just move to a better town and want to live around a bunch of niggers, thus giving your daughter a shitty life. Such a great parent you are.

>>133667931
I don't think I'm misinterpreting anything

You say nothing belongs to noone. Your body is naturally your property. You deny that property exists. Therefore you declare your body to be no matter of property. It thereby has the same status as a grain of sand on the beach, anyone who picks it up can rightfully do with it whatever he wants. How about I put you in a chopper and show you where marxism can lead

>>133668100
You realize 100% of schools are taught by marxists. There is no such thing as a good public school.

>>133667985
>>133668012
>>133668085
unfair straw man argument.

>>133667458

Best working form of human civilization was the United States prior to the Federal Reserve Act. No income taxes, minimal government, and we turned a bunch of small colonies into the most powerful industrial economic force on the planet in a little more than a hundred years.

>>133668049
If the first hired security didn't enforce all contracts you would fire them and hire different security you idiot. If your internet provider doesn't provide you with internet do you keep paying them and then also pay a new internet subscriber? No. If they don't do their job you stop paying them.

>>133666293
It is
Thing is, for a nation to survive, the people must be stolen from
Though income and trade tax are still bullshit

>>133667931
You didn't read the post. I said you have people enforce it, just not the state. Instead of having your enforcers chosen for you, you choose them. I don't see why that is difficult.

>>133668270
It actually was but my point is we shouldn't tinker with what we have too much or else we might lose it

By creating government (funded by taxes) you have an authority that can fight against monopoles, trusts, oligopoles and other examples of unfair market "competition" in order to preserve the free market itself.

This is going to sound retarded but I honestly don't understand why everyone in these threads says "you need to pay for police". In seems like, in places where people feel the police are not doing their job (heavy migrant areas in germany, for instance), people can and will form neighborhood watches that basically function better and more morally than the police force. Extreme policing is really only needed in heavily multicultural societies where cultural tensions and social decay cause crime.

>>133668336
Ok so the security just takes their pay and say go fuck you. Or since they have guns and you dont they just take your stuff. It's just going to boil down to who has the biggest weaponry. What are you going to so about it? You can't have a system of laws reliant on the honor code.

If your internet provider doesn't honor the contract you can take them to court.
>>133668426
>create a state, say it isnt a state

>>133668490

True enough, but with all these worthless fiat currencies, governments going into extreme debt mode, and forcing mass diversity, we'll lose all of it in the end anyway.

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>private property intrinsically exists
Sweetie

>>133668596
>fighting against monopolies by forming a monopoly called government
Retard

>>133668179
That's idiotic. Half my school teachers are republicans. The problem is that Liberal teachers are more vocal and able to get away with their lectures than Republican teachers.

>>133669111

Your body can be considered private property, no? So why can't items we use with our body also be considered our property?

>>133669018

Then said mercenary force never gets hired again, and the people who did that become unable to buy food, land, houses, or even rent anything. Ultimately, the mercenary force disbands because it can't pay anyone, and head guy is found with his brains blown out.

>>133668118
I'm not arguing marxism. I'm saying property requires enforcement otherwise it is meaningless. Ok so my body my property. Well I don't care about the cops since there isn't such a thing as law enforcement. It just boils down to your gun v my gun.

I'm not a commie i just think the muh taxation is theft argument is stupid. Property rights are enforced bc its efficienct. More government control is not efficient but property requires a government to enforce it.

>>133669234
Only if a state recognizes your body as private property it is. Slaves have existed in virtually any developed civilization.

>>133669217
Again, if you could choose your school this wouldn't happen. But hey go ahead and defend the status quo.

>>133669032
Do you really think everything will just disappear when the monetary system collapses? Things will happen, yes, and they will not be convenient but nation states won't just click on westerncivilization.exe and place it in the recycle bin

What worries me much more is the civilizational collapse that is occuring right now, with all these delusional neomarxists arguing for the flooding of our countries with third world migrants, not thinking about the catastrophic consequences

>>133669253
Sounds about how ancap plays out.

Ir a group comes together and makes their own state and just takes over everything since they are better organized

>>133669380

>State exists
>People don't.

Sweetie.

>>133669348
Property exists without enforcement though, it's alyways immoral to take something from another person that doesn't belong to you, especially if they can't resist

>>133669381
It's not the problem with school choice, it's the problem with the classes offered in public schools. But that's an entirely different topic.

>>133669018
Again there isn't just one security company. So if security company A takes your money you go to security company B and tell them about it. Since security company B wants all of the customers they start a PR campaign using your story as an advertisement. They get your money back and now are heroes so everyone who wants protected signs up with security company B. It's all about competition.

Also the definition of a state is a monopolistic enforcer. AnCaps want enforcers, we just don't want a monopoly. If you can't understand that about AnCaps then don't even bring it up. Sure AnCap philosophy has weaknesses but you don't understand it so this argument is worthless.

Again what AnCaps don't like about the state is that it is a monopoly that doesn't allow others to compete with it. Take that aspect of it away and I don't care what system you are left with. I just shouldn't be forced to pay for the retards who run this country and not have a chance to try something different.

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>>133669586
How do you define what belongs to someone and what doesn't? Property rights are built on the right of conquest. Without enforcement you are just yelling your opinions into the air.

>>133669862
How does the security company enforce it's own contracts with it's guards?

>>133669494

If people don't accept a takeover, it's not going to happen. You're assuming that an AnCap society won't be armed, and just be a bunch of sheep waiting to be conquered, which is a poor assumption. They would also have more than one company supplying security services.

>>133666293

It is. More accurately it's tribute so an armed band who make sure undesirables don't take your stuff/mate/etc doesn't turn on you.

>>133670100
If you have a small armed village with informal heirachies, it will lose to an organized army

>>133669958
I declare that something is mine and if nobody else has declared that before me then it is mine. We need the concept of property to avoid conflicts, Hoppe wrote a good essay on it

https://mises.org/library/idea-private-law-society

I don't agree with everything he says but he's got a good take on why property is real and should be real

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>>133667237
>>133667408
>>133667563
>>133667616
>>133667649
>>133668195
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE UNFAIR UNFAIR UNFAIR!!!!11

>>133670284

Perhaps you should take a look at Russian and American adventures in Afghanistan, or perhaps projections of a second American revolution.

Then, perhaps explain in an AnCap Nation the size of the US, how such a military would come to exist, and how it could sustain itself indefinitely while conquering the country.

>>133670072
You're being willfully ignorant at this point and sound retarded as hell. It's like you don't even recognize that private security/mercenary outfits exist today, on planet earth, and function rather efficiently in areas of the globe that don't have much of a central government to do the policing. The shit already exists, is already a thing that works, and you're sitting here asking "But uhh how does it happen?" What the actual fuck mate.

>>133666293
As a finn(yes, im stydying in hungary) I think taxation is a necessary evil. Societies couldnt function without taxing, and crimerates would be much higher. I do agree that some of the things they use taxes on are bullshit, e.g. immigration, ridiculously high benefits etc... But I do believe in free education, healthcare, and I want the roads to be nice. In the nordic countries I think we should try "citizen income", because now we have a lot of people refusing to work, because their income would actually drop by doing so. This would also lessen the bureacracy, since thousands of people would be useless.
Not everyone can be born into an upper class family, I was and that surely has made things somewhat easier. But still, nordic taxation is theft. They could streamline the process

>>133666293
You use any form of government service? Like having legal rights instead of being the bitch of any person that wants to take all your shit?

Oh, yeah, you have either a phone or a computer, since you are shit posting. Therefore, you obviously do.

Better pay up bitch. Or they will take you and throw you in prison where someone can take that ass anytime the guards are not watching.

It's not theft. Closer to extortion, really.

>>133666293
taxation is theft for the same reason god lets evil exist, and why we haven't reached world peace