Why do so many people on /Pol/ argue about communism without

>>132532708
Why should I care about a dead idea?

>>132532920
It's dead? You sure about that?

And history is pointless? Yeh, ignore history like a good goy. That's where all the facts and truth is and you don't need any of that.

Look at North Korea and Venezuela. Both are shitholes and living in poverty so your commie agenda does not work at all. Best thing to do is kys OP if you thing commie shit works.

>>132533251
>Best thing to do is kys OP if you thing commie shit works.


Did you read ANY of my post before typing that out?

>>132532708
>without knowing anything about it

Literally

>It's not real communism

>>132533398
Did you read any of my post before typing that out?

Might have been a mistake to try this in American hours...

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Jews gave Communism to the world.

Read The Communist Manifesto, The fundamentals of Marxist Leninism (some shit like that), Historical and dialectal materialism and Das Kapital when I was younger. Didn't know too much about economics back then but it's principles seemed a bit wrong to me.

>>132533584

I read that you're retarded and need to kys

Move to Venezuela if you want communism so badly.

The rest of us would rather not starve to death

>>132533643
Nobody ever tried to hide that fact. It was a kike invention, but it wasn't a world conspiracy where they were in charge. They financed the revolutionaries, they gave them ideas, they sent them off and then propped them up as best they could.

The nation's did most of it themselves.

>>132532708
Communism doesn't work because it doesn't actually do what it is supposed to. The political elite which is often composed of kikes harvest the money of the workers for their own luxuries instead of putting it into use. Commies are most of the time only commies because they're edgelords, and dont know history.

>>132533795
If you're interested I'd point you out to read history on 2-3 countries, like us and Romania and maybe Russia. It's very redpilling.

>>132533860
So if you read it why do you think I'm shilling for communism when I clearly stated, at least three times, I'm not?

Are you a little slow?

>>132532708
I read Marx, his books a fool of philosophical crap that isn't related to real word in any way. But he did make 3 specific economic predictions which never came true, so why would I trust bearded retard?

But then the plot thickens. After Marx came marxist-leninst retards trying to implement their version of communism and failed in 40+ countries.

But then neo-marxists came and in their works outright said that Marx was wrong and bla-blah-blah, but they never mentioned anything economically sound so they are just a philosophical school.

And then slovenian cinema critic came and said everyone before him were frauds and he is the only real marxist who doesn't know shit about economics.

Wow, such a great theory.

>>132533992
Communist elite starts out as kikes, but usually in time it's local regular people who do the exact same thing. Amazing system to just exploit.

>>132533124
Yea it's mostly dead except for a few irrelevant countries.
>inb4 china

Yes it's dead same with monarchism and tribalism, it's a relic of the past and just because durr "if we do not understand it we are doomed to repeat it" does not actually mean we will repeat it; In most cultures and mostly mine, communism is interpreted as an objectively wrong ideology.

>>132534129
>So if you read it why do you think I'm shilling for communism when I clearly stated, at least three times, I'm not?

What is the point of this thread then

Everyone that isn't a basement dwelling SJW edgelord already communism is shit and doesn't work in any form, so the only other reason for making this thread is that it's a thinly veiled attempt to "educate" people on it.

If

>>132533860
Venezuela is a socialist nation that tried to stay within the global capital structure, they're not Communist by definition.

>>132534417
Ignoring history is the most bluepilled a human being can be. All the facts and truths are in history. Not paying attention to it is asking to not know what's going on.

>>132532708
how do you see communism, or even promoting communism, working in the current political climate?

The people on the left are in general either too stupid or too radicalised nowadays to cooperate with other people/ideas.

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>>132532708

What is there to say, really?

Communism, like National Socialism is a failed ideology that belongs in the history books.

>>132534698
Communism doesn't work and has never worked in any climate or time.

Utopia is by definition unachievable.

>>132534596
What argument are you really making here?

The history behind it is just basic demonstrations on why it's a pipe dream at best. Now post your passages from the manifesto and how real communism has never been tried like the last ten thousand threads like this have gone.

nb

>>132534417
>implying antifa doesn't exist
>implying labour party doesn't exist
>implying yuri bezmenov was wrong and there isn't a worldwide communist agenda

>>132534340
For most of USSR's history the political elite was very jewish, and the people were poor as a result. Some commie countries weren't necessarily jewish operated, but these were mostly third world and thus they were going to suck either way.

>>132534526

Socialism leads to communism

They are basically synonyms, with the only difference being time

>>132534925
As the other American here, you failed to notice the three or more times I specifically mentioned I am not shilling for communism.

Worse, you think history is pointless.

That's sad.

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>>132532708
>Why do so many people on /Pol/ argue about capitalism without knowing anything about it? Both for and against?
>It's not hard to educate yourself. Just read around, know that a lot of people have an agenda shilling for it and shitting against it and try to get an objective view of the facts. I decided to make a thread to help with that.
>Oh and keep in mind many people who lived under it are heavily biased. It's cool in the west to shit on capitalism and it's sometimes "patriotic" to defend it. These people will take it very emotionally and talk about either how great it is or how it's hell on earth with very little attention to facts.
>I'm objective and educated on the subject, so I can answer questions if you want.

>>132532708
>>132532920
True Communism has never been tried though.

>>132535135
Most eastern European countries never had Jews in power. The result and situation was the same.

>>132535147
No, you're failing to realize people are seeing through the ruse. You want a meta discussion without providing anything of substance other than a personal anecdote of your general perception of /pol/.

You don't need to know what Lenin ate for dinner to know the the consequences of his actions.

>>132535282
Third American flag, third poster who doesn't read anything before posting.

Interesting.

>>132535141
>Socialism leads to communism
Just because Stalin says it doesn't make it true
>They are basically synonyms, with the only difference being time
They're fundamentally different in structure

>>132535655
Yes, you saw right through me, I'm a kike manipulator trying to fool you into thinking history matters.

Well done goyim, I have been found out.

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>>132532708
>I'm objective and educated on the subject
prove it faggot

>>132534847
Exactly, so why educate people about communism as a viable political view? It's a failed concept, it should be taught alongside things like feudalism.

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>>132532708
real communism has never been tried

>>132535097
Just because a group can shout loud does not mean the can do shit.

>labour
>acshully REAL communist

>conspiracy theories

>>132535945
Communism never worked and will never work.

>>132535978

Communism is back and we have our shit grasp of history to thank for it.

>>132532708
Discussing the "theory" is retarded because it is a pipe dream.
The examples of large scale attempts at "communism" speak for themselves.
So at this point in history discussing it is literally a giant fucking waste of time.

>>132535996
Let me guess, you're American too? You folks not being able to read seems to be a pattern.

>>132534596
Just because I don't act upon it does not mean I don't know. I'm not being willfully ignorant I'm being intentionally lazy

>>132533795
>and Das Kapital
And someone is a giant liar.

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>>132535097
>implying antifa is communist
>implying labour is communist
>implying yuri bezmenov isn't just a conspiracy tool to avoid actual discourse

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>>132532708

>>132536289
It's a great lesson on exploiting and controlling the masses, but why do we need that?

>>132536393
That's pathetic. What are you doing in /Pol/ if you're too lazy to care about your own fate and that of your country?

>>132536966
Communism is about 0.1% of our respective histories.

>>132536409
right nobody could survive reading through, i'd wager that noone ever did

>>132536225
No, what we have are bunch of retarded teenagers who don't know that what they are actually doing is forcing authoritarianism from the world governments, while ageing politicians try to make a good "impact" on the world by trying to rebuild it with their own blocks.

All that it will lead to will probably just be a bigger rulebook and fewer possibilities in life.

>White nations that have been ruled by Communism: Hungary, Belarus, Moldova, Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania, Ostdeutschland, etc.
Attractive Women, Patriotic People, Anti-faggotry, Will exist in 40 years

>White nations that have been ruled by Islamism: Serbia, Croatia, Hungary, Romania, Portugal, etc.
Attractive Women, Patriotic People, Anti-faggotry, Will exist in 40 years

>White nations that have been ruled by Capitalism: USA, Britain, Netherlands, Sweden, France, Westdeutschland, etc.
Unattractive Women, Apathetic People, Pro-faggotry, Will not exist in 40 years

>What your average "white nationalist" thinks the biggest problems are:
Communism, Islamism

>>132536594
I enjoy talking about politics when you can on /pol/ but all of it is mostly senseless to me since there is no point to argue politics with a Bulgarian who lives in a different socioeconomic climate than I.

It's not socially acceptable imo to be all "le politikal warrior" that shits gay

>>132537226
And you think that's NOT how it started before?

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Because its imherently wrong for the government to take your money. Taxes are evil and in America we fought for our independence from taxes, they take away incentives from hard work and allow government spending to run amok. Increasing taxes is like giving a crackhead a blank check. In short a high tax rate encourages governments to be bad with money.

I hope i addressed your points adequately, but imo your seriously asking for a free helicopter ride

>>132537174
I am pretty sure Marx couldn't get through it.

>>132536594
It's mostly out of my hands ((legally)) to decide the fate, all I can do is sit back and watch/commentate

>>132537400
Politics without history is just economics.

>Different socioeconomic climate

Lel no you forced yours on us

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>>132537424
>Because its imherently wrong for the government to take your money
Change "government" to "boss" and you have capitalism
>we fought for our independence from taxes
Revolutionary war was far more about having a say in taxes, than some libertarian argument against taxes themselves.
>allow government spending to run amok
I can agree with this, our military spending is fucking outrageous. I think a lot of budget issues could be solved if the gov was just more transparent, and actually made an effort to inform the american public.

This post doesn't really address what Communism is though, it's not as if it's the same capitalist structure + more taxes.

Alright it was a mistake to try this during American hours.

I'll try later when people who can read and think are on.

>>132537268
Yes my american comrade, we are all muslim here

>>132538196
>discretionary budget
Post the full one.

>>132537404
I do know that, but I don't think communism itself is what we have to fear, it's what the people will let the politicians do to get there.

For the moment you should be worried about a corrupt state that will stop listening to it's citizen, then slowly but surely your rights will be taken away. Communism is down the road, right now you should be worried about vocal and violent radicals, be it anarchists/socialists/jihadis. Because the general konsensus nowadays is that being radical is nothing special, hell it's being promoted by media and companies everywhere.

>>132538250
>hurr durr, people don't value a stupid fucking philosophy
>I will whine about their lack of intellect and take my ball home

>>132537557
Not really your political parties and infrastructure is different

Why do you also keep saying I'm ignoring history?

>>132532708
>Beware of the bias of those who've lived under it.
What would they know? kek; they didn't take my college courses.

>>132532708
>We need to tear down this awful government!
>We will make sure the wealth is distributed!
>We are better people than the tyrants!
>Trust us!
>a few months pass
>people are starving in the streets
>new communist government announcements echo throughout the streets, "HAPPINESS IS IN THE MIND. HAPPINESS IS COMMUNISM."
>citizen who complains that he is starving and cannot work anymore is shot in the back of the head

The only way that communism or socialism would ever work is if the people in charge were unfettered by base urges and were actual holy, kind, deities of some sort. Humanity will always fuck it up. Always.

>>132538196
>discretionary spending
Don't forget the mandatory spending.

https://www.cbo.gov/publication/51110

Communism is in an endless war against its own nation. you constantly have to level the playing field and destroy your citizens.

similar to how Fascism is constantly at war with everybody else to prove how great it is.

>>132532708
Economic calculation problem

>>132532708
kill yourself faggot

some retarded Turkic Bulg monkey isn't the only one who can read and process information

>>132538523
Communism is just exploitation of the people, it's another name for something that's done today. Sure, you shouldnt fear communism, bit you should fear it's methods, causes and ways.

>>132538675
Idk a burger said he doesn't care about history. Can't keep track of all of you on phone.

>>132538512
>>132538815
Discretionary alone is enough to make my skin crawl

I might be a dirty socialist, but at least we can all agree that the US budget is garbage

>communism

It's like niggers, it sounds good but it doesn't work

>>132537268

Fuck off Muhammad

>>132539113
Most of your countrymen here seem unable to.

Also I lived through communism, so I thought that made me a more credible source than just reading and processing information, but suit yourself.

>>132539379

So did I and it was shit, so what?

>>132539182
Don't be a misleading kike and post a full budget that shows Social Security and Medicare dwarfing the DoD budget.

>>132539531
And 90% of our people take it emotionally and don't judge shit objectively. I've heard so many people blame the kikes or whatever, when most of the time it was us doing it to ourselves.

An objective read on communism is crucial before it becomes too late.

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How do anti-Socialists feel about Allende?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salvador_Allende#Presidency

>>132539648
Social Security and Medicare are also inefficient. I'm more of a single payer fan.

>>132536225
Nigga shut the fuck up about we don't know history. Most who believe in communism are manipulated,echo chambered,delusional,and revisionist.

A lot learn history but they don't understand it, I get what you are trying to say as in arguing about it but there is no point in putting on /pol/ because the majority don't listen or contribute little.

>>132539800

How the fuck does reading about communism equate to actual examples of communism? It sounds great on paper, but it's shit, it kills people and destroys nations

>>132534457
this

>>132532920
FPBP

>>132540202
And you think reading about Das Kapital or whatever gives a good idea of what Tito did? Or what Jivkov did?

That's why the point is to read about the real history and see what happened.

And the final result is not "it's shit and kills people" or "it was the greatest thing ever", it's about the methods used to manipulate people, to abuse them and to deny them freedom and what to watch out for. It's a fucking lesson, not an experiment.

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>>132539369
No, you fuck off, fatass.
Obviously, communism and islamism have no rapport with the white world. Yet, capitalism is doing what the Soviets and Ottomans never dreamed of.

>>132532708
>in the east... how great it was or how it was hell on earth with very little attention to facts.

Some facts not mentioned:

* Lenin said in 1917 that the October Revolution wouldn't mean that much. It would mean a lot in Russia, and perhaps a little bit elsewhere, but that Russia was a small country and it wouldn't mean much.

What happened is Russia became a target for every imperialist power on earth. Even the USA invaded Russia in 1918. Then in 1941 Russia was invaded by the axis of Germany, Romania, Finland, Italy, Hungary and Slovakia.

>>132539182
perspective is important. I think we get a lot of value from military supremacy, but i don't think we get a lot of value subsidizing illegal immigrants and people unwilling to work for a living.

>>132533124
>It's dead? You sure about that?
At its height, communism controlled 1/3 of the world's population. Today, it's practiced by about three third world shitholes with the populations of a US state. Face it, your stupid theory has been thoroughly debunked and will never be entertained again. You're living in a capitalist world and you will be for the rest of time.

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>>132532708
AMERICA MOTHERFUCKER

>>132536409
>>132537174
This. Last guy who tried bored himself to death.

>>132540450

Are you retarded? I lived in communism, I know what Tito did and how it worked.

>And the final result is not "it's shit and kills people" or "it was the greatest thing ever",

There are only ever two results, either it works or it doesn't. You're acting smart like a god damn retard

>>132540663
I think our military supremacy has caused a great deal of unnecessary conflict in the world. The "unwilling to work" narrative is also getting old, friend. Let's not just blame easy boogeymen for our complex problems

>>132540974
The End of History is ending, though. With the rise of State-Capitalist systems, left-wing populism, and the ever increasing threat of environmental collapse, late-capitalism looks like it's in retreat, imo.

It's also hard to call capitalism successful, given the enormous pockets of poverty it produces.

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>>132537268
>DDR and other eastern bloc countries will exist in 40 years
What did he mean by this?

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>>132532708
There is noting wort learning about communism, except that it doesn't works, and you should avoid contact with those possessed by it.

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>>132541498
>It's also hard to call capitalism successful, given the enormous pockets of poverty it produces
Lmao

You could have walked away from this conversation with at least a facade of credibility but you chose otherwise.

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>>132535282
Why try Communism blindly, when a field guide has already been published?

>>132541275
>There are only ever two results, either it works or it doesn't.

Enjoy neo-communism, hope you have fun.

We have plenty of people like you, love how they keep voting anti-communism because that's the only truth they know and they keep voting in commies who exploit it.

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>>132532708
When you march in here and declare to be an expert on something, you just look like a faggot. That's why everyone hates /leftypol/. I can say "I'm an expert on the Populist party and agrarian demise of the 1890's, ask me anything", but I sound like a complete asshat who just wants to be jerked off about some random topic no one else cares about. What I SHOULD do is go to a place that I already know will be willing to discuss the topic with me. I suggest you do the same if you really care that much about a failed movement.

>>132542118
For the 50th time in this thread, I'm not a communist, nor do I support the ideology.

I mean holy shit, do you burgers ever even try to learn to read?

>>132542261
Did I ever accuse you of being a communist in my post?

>>132542261

Then wtf is this thread about? You came to talk about communism, we told you it doesnt work and you keep saying we're wrong.

>>132541864

I can smell the reddit ffs

>>132542397
>That's why everyone hates /leftypol/

It's presumed. Either way, the point was a thread to discuss communism, instead of the regular bait of "it works" or the other bait of "it doesn't".

>>132542414
Are you baiting me? Really? Be honest, it's late and I may not be able to tell.

I've quite literally told YOU, in plain words, that I know and will argue that it does NOT work.

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>>132541750
>44 million living in poverty in the richest nation in the world
>21% of all children live under the poverty
>not a sign of massive systemic failure
Delusional.

>>132542414
No he's not he's arguing why do we talk about it when we are not educated about it and if we aren't educated then it will happen again???? Amirite?!!

>>132542761
Also you are kinda implying it's bad for it to happen again so...
>objective

>>132542713
This is the part where you're supposed to blame it on ze black pipol

>>132542711
Lol ok, if you think that me taking a shot at /leftypol/ means I'm implying your a communist, go right ahead and think that. This is why your not getting any quality discussion dumbass. You need to be willing to respond to people who don't follow your pre-planned discussion format.

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>>132542713
>"poverty"
>make about 30-40 grand per year and recieve tax exemption plus federal aid
>Can still afford some basic housing maybe a car and food while the rest of the world starves and lives in literal shacks.
Please. Just stop. you're embarrassing yourself

>>132543172
>This is why your not getting any quality discussion dumbass

Yes, I'm quite sure that's it

>You need to be willing to respond to people who don't follow your pre-planned discussion format.

Oh, sorry, I'll go ahead and respond to all the "fuck you commie" posts that is practically the whole thread right now.

I gave up after I realized my mistake of posting this in burger time. There's no point trying to talk seriously any more.

>>132543314
Fuck you commie

>>132543453
Fuck you too Tyrone McCheeseburger

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>>132542713
>>132543070
the second we went slightly communist, in a supposed attempt to right all this surplus "theft"
we lost our ability to reduce poverty, imagine that

>>132535097
*tips tinfoil*
>>132535135
Jews actually faced harassment and street violence in the Soviet Union.
>>132535141
Let me guess, you got this from an out-of-context Lenin quote?

>>132543314
there is no proof of surplus "theft"

>>132543314
Bulgar not gonna lie if you do go to leftypol you'll get a better discussion

>>132537424
>in America we fought for our independence from taxes
wew lad

>>132543994
>Jews actually faced harassment and street violence in the Soviet Union.
>source: jewey mcjewsteins unabridged history of the soviet foreskin rollercoasters, we totally werent in on the leadership, volume 1

>>132543994
Communism is undeniably had Jews supporting and developing it.

Just because some faced persecution does not mean they did not create it.

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>>132543276
>"the poor people aren't actually poor"
>make about 30-40 grand per year and recieve tax exemption plus federal aid
>Doesn't understand what poverty is
https://aspe.hhs.gov/2015-poverty-guidelines
30-40 is the poverty line for a family of 6-7. The average american household is about 2.53, a wage of 15-20k per year.
You're an idiot who ignores facts and figures to defend muh ideology

>>132544180
what happens when you say "I quit" to a man in a suit that says you owe tax?

>>132539941
There's a lot of revisionist historians paid by the CIA saying shit like he sponsored torture and paramilitaries or was a KGB stooge. It's bullshit.
He made mistakes but he wasn't as bad as the CIA would claim.

>>132544287
>/aspe.hhs.gov
PFFFFFTTTTTTTTTT

>>132544226
He's partially right, during Lenin and others there was no such thing, during many other leaders jews were harassed.

That means regular, everyday jews were disliked, while the chosen few were leaders, rulers and literally kings, of course.

>>132544378
>There's a lot of revisionist historians paid by the CIA
the CIA is funding communists now dummy. have you been living under a rock since nicaragua

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>>132544409
>ancap
Aren't you the guys who pull the "n-not real capitalism!" like commies do?

>>132544447
and thats why attempts at communism are not to be done again

>>132544603
Social democracy in western europe and communism have very few differences.

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>>132544587
bitcoin is real capitalism
btw nice edit, here is the original

>>132544723
That's not even half true. I thought you read your Marx?
SocDem is hardly anything more than capitalism with a human face, a welfare state at best.

>>132544723
and the no go zones in malmo reinforce the shit out of my statement
attempts at communism are not to be done again

>>132545008
That doesn't even make any sense, given Communism abolishes private property
I'm also not even a ancom

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Maybe commies are the true redpilled, because if we destroy our own country the darkies won't want to come here anymore

>>132545017
Functionally, some countries like France and Belgium have very few differences with communist states.

Philosophically maybe, but that doesn't really matter as much.

>>132545195
>That doesn't even make any sense
now you know how others feel when you post those memes?

>>132532708
why don't we discuss capitalism instead? communism failed and will never come back in the same way as before, but capitalism isn't a paradise either.

>>132532920
Communism isn't dead you fool.

>>132545427
Capitalism has its own set of very different problems but at least we aren't starving to death

>Critiquing capitalism: fine, necessary even
>Capitalism is bad and therefore WE NEED COMMUNISM: just stop

>>132545284
>Functionally, some countries like France and Belgium have very few differences with communist states.
Dude, what the fuck are you even talking about?
>private property
>private industry
>class structure
>idle bourgeois
Doesn't sound anything like Communism

>>132545291
The basic point of that meme was to point out that there are no provisions in AnCap to prevent someone from monopolizing resources, allowing, essentially, a state to emerge.

>>132545691
To expand: answering the problems with capitalism with "Communism" is like answering the problem of poverty with "raise the minimum wage" x 10000

It's a totes cool theory and you sure look virtuous by suggesting it, but really you're just making everything worse for literally everyone except the ruling class, of course, which is the most ironic irony that ever existed.

>>132532708
>People who experienced the horrors of communism first hand are bias

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>>132533124

Oh this thread again and the same poor faggot complaining about his miserable existence.

>>132532708
>It's not hard to educate yourself.
I agree; it's easy to see that communism is the worst political system/philosophy ever thought of.

>>132545783
>Doesn't sound anything like Communism

Sure, until you realize the 50%+ taxes, massive government, state protected industries and state interference in the market make it functionally basically the same.

Eh whatever

>>132546256
>taxes + big gov + regulations + national industries = gomminusm
Dude, again, you're just wrong by defintion. You can keep calling these things Communism all you want, but it doesn't make it so.

You can also totally argue that the Communist Countries weren't communist, that's also pretty valid. But don't go around pretending that a capitalist structure with higher wages and nationally enforced regulations for social justice is in any way a communist system. It's Social Democracy. You're doing your "intellectual discussion" a huge disservice if you assume that all leftist philosophies are the same.

>>132546730
>your "intellectual discussion"

It's dead, bury it, move on. I'm just around to wait for the croat who was baiting me hard. Guess he went to sleep.

It's interesting that if you suggest discussing communism or capitalism american posters automatically get defensive and assume that you're communist.

Most of the time they don't even read the post, just look at most posts in this thread. What's the problem with them? is it the food?

>>132547395
Hollywood is the preferred tool of the kike to brainwash. Americans have had a black and white view of the world imposed upon them for decades.

They can't fathom anything being gray.