Can any burger give tldr on why Obongocare was such a failure

>>131850187
Socialized medicine in a low trust multiethnic society can't work, plus everything in it was designed to take from healthy working people punish them with a new tax.

>>131850411
How? If someone is a fat nog for example, and needed medicine all the time. Did they get lower fee on the "subscription"?

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Gazillions of regulations which drove the price of policies up.
Caused businesses to shift to part-time jobs so they wouldn't have to pay for employee's insurance.
Part-timers and self-employed are now FORCED by law to buy individual plans, which keep getting more and more unaffordable before the insurance company yanks those plans altogether
So now you have to pay a king's ransom in premiums for a plan with a deductible higher than your yearly salary or pay the government for the privilege of not having insurance.

>>131850411
This! I remember my dad (who works a blue collared job) paying only $200 monthly for a family of 5 and only a $20 co-pay on visits.

He now tells me that he pays roughly $700 monthly so my mother and he can see a doctor for regular visits.

F Obamacare! It's Bullshit and only the lazy fucking sick and dying support it.

I'm in the military so my insurance is "FREE" (probably scooped up into my parent's costs)

>>131850187
>Can stay on your parents insurance till twenty-six

>>131850187
It forced insurance companies to cover people with preexisting conditions Before that they could tell you to fuck off if you had cancer leaving you with millions of dollars in debt if you want to survive. If there's one thing poor white Americans love is to vote against their interests

>>131851188
Fat niggers got their shit for free, not a single dime out of pocket.

>>131850187
Because socialism/communism does not work. /thread

>>131851538
Pay for your own AIDS drugs, faggot, and stop expecting poor white people to subsidize your disease-spreading habits.

>>131850187
"Universal Healthcare" means allowing all Americans access to healthcare. The way this premise was reached was by created insurance monopolies at the state level, forcing all members of a given state to purchase insurance from at least one provider in the state. When all but one provider in a state closed their branch in that state, the remaining branch could charge anything for basic services and there were no alternatives.

If all healthcare is "guaranteed" to be paid by insurance, healthcare costs can go up, since the insurance cos will pay. But in reality, insurance cos can pass along the higher costs to consumers, and he consumers no longer had competition within their state to force costs downward.

So while yes, terminally Ill we're always to be treated, great, meanwhile the maintenance costs of the healthy increased 5-10x while wages remained stagnant. This is why Trump was elected.

>>131852135
Best answer so far. Now, how is Trump's proposal any better, if at all? I'm honestly asking for a non-trump apologist answer.

Also chose flag at random

1) Increase costs of healthcare
2) Reduce supply of healthcare
3) Forcibly redistribute remaining healthcare among 300 million people

Viola, not only have you doomed your country's healthcare system, you've guaranteed your party's losses in all coming elections.

Not that the Republicans are doing anything to fix it.

Fuck everyone in Washington short of Teddy and Rand.

>>131851538
Voting to take away free health care from niggers and spics who rely on it the most by far is not against our self-interests

>>131852864
His proposal (not really his, Republican party's in general at this point) only treats some of the symptoms, it's not really going to fix much.

They're scared for reelection purposes to remove the preexisting conditions mandate, which along with extreme over-regulation of insurance policies are the true problems.

Now we're in a situation in which somebody can delay getting insurance until they're already sick, which means that they don't pay into the system until their case is expensive. That means that people paying insurance are pretty much footing the bill for people who already have problems, whereas in a free market system people would have insurance as just that, insurance, so even when they're not sick they're paying in, which helps pay for the costs when somebody does get sick in the insurance group.

cont in next post.

>>131852864
>>131853243

To compensate for this, Obama introduced the individual mandate to try and force participation. However, people just can't afford it now, so instead you can take a tax charge and not participate in the insurance. Ignoring the philosophical implications of having to pay a fee to not participate in a service, that fee is relatively low to annual healthcare costs. It doesn't compensate in the gap between how much money insurance takes in monthly and how much it has to pay out for actual medical care.

That leads to soaring premiums and deductibles (monthly payments and the amount you have to pay before the insurance will start to foot the bill, respectively.)

To sum all of this up, Obongo ignored all of the most basic principles of Economics regarding the distribution of resources, then when trying to compensate for that made the situation even worse.

But now that the govt has given out gibs, it's political suicide to take them away, so nobody wants to fix it for fear of losing their job.

>>131853243
>>131853655
Sorry if this is convoluted, I'm really tired and this issue gets me really angry because it's hurt my family pretty bad, but I hope that clears it up.

>>131850187
>Lets put all the 299.9lbs NEETs on the FREE healthcare
>Tax the shit out of the healthy people to cover for those useless sacks of lard
>Watch the market implode as healthy people leave exchanges and premiums/deductibles for everyone skyrocket

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>>131850187
Burden was put on white and Asian single men in their early 20-30s to pay for it

Poorly designed website was coded by a Canadian friend of the Obamas and did not even work correctly.

Forced through behind closed doors

Earmarked to death

Congress doesn't have to use it themselves as they know its shit

Broken promises on "you can keep your doctors"

FDA was able to crack down on importing of cheap Canadian generics.

Cost for an average family went up, not down

And this
>>131850411

>>131851255
that's cheap. I expected someone to wine about 1400$, that's about what I pay for 4.

Thanks Burgers

This is for some thundering RL shitlording against hysteric catladies and their ilk, I assure you.

>>131850187
Our health care system was already addled and Obamacare simply made worse the existing problems. The idea that it was a step toward single-payer is a pathetic and transparent lie told to leftists by their thought leaders. It's a money grab, an awarding of a third world style government concession.

>>131850411
>Socialized medicine in a low trust multiethnic society can't work, plus everything in it was designed to take from healthy working people punish them with a new tax.

This is literally the only solution which will work in a society like ours:

https://mises.org/library/four-step-healthcare-solution

>>131855017
This. I was a liberal at the time it was passed and the most common complaint was that it was a rushed piece of legislature. A step in a good direction perhaps, but ObamaCare is trash. He had 8 damn years to make the bill and it's just garbage.

>>131850187
Universal healthcare doesn't work when everyone is a fat sack of shit who needs hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of healthcare every year to stave off their inevitable demise at the hands of diabetes, heart disease, and strokes.

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>>131850187
>forcing people to buy healthcare from you
>fining people that dont buy it from you
>premiums skyrocket
yeah....

>>131850187
>>131852135

This kind of addresses it, but there's three other key issues at play with Obama fucking with the Healthcare Industry

1: Massive expansion of Medicaid not just to additional citizens under the ACA, but also to illegals, permanent residents, and refugees.

2: The ACA increased healthcare coverage by less than half of what the CBO predicted it would (10.5m vs 23m iirc). Most of these individuals had chosen not to have healthcare insurance, rather than being unable to afford it.

3. Obama's healthcare reform drastically increased overhead costs, impacting small businesses the most. Eg your local primary care doctors are being forced out of business and replaced with larger systems or telemedicine. I live in one of the largest cities in the nation and literally every goddamn doctors office has been sold to the massive university healthcare system or formed 'partnerships' with said system. Its the equivalent of Starbucks moving in and putting your local coffee shop out of business, except with the addition of it being pushed by the state.

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>>131850187
Politically:
It put stress on the middle class, punished the upper classes, and attempted to reward the welfare class.
Fiscally: fucked anyone who didn't want to fund the welfare pool, caused rates to soar, made small employers lose their insurance, or make employees too expensive

>>131857973
I forgot to mention:

>you must offer coverage to any employee who works x hours per work

I'm sure that means there won't be a massive shift to x-1 workers. Lets check

>Harvard finds 93% of jobs created under Obama were part time or temporary

Simultaneously

>people earning less
>healthcare costs skyrocketing
>deductibles skyrocketing

Maybe we can get some top economists to figure out what's going on here?

>>131850187
Sure
Google.com

>companies cannot discriminate based od pre-existing conditions
>the penalty for not having insurance is less than cost of insurance
Meaning you can wait till you get sick to buy insurance. Since providers can't turn you down or jack your price the cost increases for everyone.

>>131850187
I actually had an obamacare experience today:
>be healthy
>turned 26 this month and got kicked off my parents insurance
>went to college a few years late, doing a summer internship, and will likely have a nice paying full time benefited job by September
>Gap couple months where I'm off insurance
>mom wants to get me a small gap plan for catastrophic coverage in case I get in a car accident or something, for her piece of mind
>ok fine whatever, we'll get some cheap ass subsidized obamacare since I barely make anything right now.
>contact healthcare.gov
>everyone's retarded, no one can answer any questions about my situation
>they transfer me to Covered California
>everyone's retarded, no one can answer any questions about my situation
>they transfer me to my county department of health services or something
>no one can can help me, lady give me the number of a private insurance salesman who does short term coverage
>Call private salesman, immediately get all the answers to everything I need to know, he gives me 12 different quote options over the phone, and tells me I can pay for one and sign up on the spot, and they're not that expensive

>>131850187
Anecdotal... My coworkers daughter was working at the local In-n-Out burger joint. Their typical schedule was 32 hours per week. After ACA they were all cut back to 25 hours because ACA requires employers to pay for insurance on workers working 30+ hours per week. This has been very common under ACA.

>>131855017
>Burden was put on white and Asian single men in their early 20-30s to pay for it
then blame the rich for dodging taxes
>Poorly designed website was coded by a Canadian friend of the Obamas and did not even work correctly.
pathetic nitpicking
>Forced through behind closed doors
like how trump's current healthcare plan is being written?
>Earmarked to death
and?
>Congress doesn't have to use it themselves as they know its shit
congress is filled with republicans who actively worked against the act being put to practice properly
>Broken promises on "you can keep your doctors"
then just dont break the promise
>FDA was able to crack down on importing of cheap Canadian generics.
so fix that
>Cost for an average family went up, not down
corporatist healthcare bill designed to monopolize healthcare for a few corporations will be more expensive, thats why you have a nationalized healthcare

>>131858915
The same thing happened with my job. All full time jobs were cut to exactly 29 hours or less to avoid having to pay for employee's health insurance. In order to make up the slack, they hired a bunch more part timers to fill in shifts.

The ACA did nothing but force people to get two jobs because everyone was avoiding the whole mandatory insurance crap.

>>131859054
commies are the most pathetic posters.
>then blame the rich for dodging taxes
not related, not fiscally responsible, and young white and asian men would still be paying out the ass
> pathetic nitpicking
they spent millions of taxpayer money building and advertising a website that did not work properly, that's not "nitpicking", its very legitimate criticism.
If the government can't build a fucking website, how do you expect them to provide you with food you retard.
>congress is filled with republicans who actively worked against the act being put to practice properly
What does this even mean. No shit they fought against a shitty over reaching bill.
>then just dont break the promise
are you seriously retarded?
>
corporatist healthcare bill designed to monopolize healthcare for a few corporations will be more expensive, thats why you have a nationalized healthcare
Weren't you just defending the bill? And if congress nationalized it, it would be the same inflated prices.

>>131851255
Rates increased at a slower rate under Obamacare than before it. Rates were increasing well before Obamacare.

>>131859054
>then blame the rich for dodging taxes
We are, its called criticizing liberal fiscal policy.
>pathetic nitpicking
Being frustrated that we spent BILLIONS (2.1b re: bloomberg) on a fucking website that is still not fully functional is "pathetic nitpicking".
>like how trump's current healthcare plan is being written?
Is this why the entire text of the current healthcare plan is available online?
>and?
Props on whining about the rich not paying enough while not giving a shit about waste from pork spending in the same post.
>congress is filled with republicans who actively worked against the act being put to practice properly
Yes, because the ACA was objectively shit.
>then just dont break the promise
Tbh you just kind of get used to after how many Obama broke
>so fix that
Don't worry, Republicans will
>corporatist healthcare bill designed to monopolize healthcare for a few corporations will be more expensive, thats why you have a nationalized healthcare
Oh that explains why Tenet, Anthem et al have been pulling out of state-level ACA arrangements

>>131851969
>Get leukemia as a teenager.
>Never get healthcare
>Constantly in debt
>Can never buy a house or get a car loan
>Somehow your own fault

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>>131850187
> Pic is answer to your qustion

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>>131850187
Pic is only and We you need

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>>131850411
Good answer but stop hiding flag...
We all get ripped on for our flag ...but be proud of it nomater how cucked your country is...

>>131859991
Do we nationally mandate Big Law firms to take on criminal defense cases where it is undisputed the person on trial is guilty?

Do we force auto insurers to take on high risk clients?

If not, why should we force a healthcare insurer to take on a client that is only going to cost them money?

>>131850187
Forced people to buy insurance, whether they wanted to or not. It's basically like a tax that a few people want to pay, but most dont, and is also subsidized

>>131850187
because its increased costs 50%, while increasing taxes providing worse insurance, and next year will actualy be totally unavailable in some states, to totally forget about competition between multiple companies. It also mandates that those people without insurance available to them pay a fine to the tune of the better half of a thousand dollars.

It was always designed to fail to reign in single payer.

>>131850187
>Can any burger give tldr on why Obongocare was such a failure and what can Trump do rebuild/reform that shit?

It was a failure because it was intended to be a failure.

Trump can't do anything about it: it was a legislative bomb, and right now our congress is trying to figure out which wire to cut to disarm the thing, but the reality is the damage has been done and our healthcare system is going to implode.

>>131859054 this guy>>131859915 blew you and your ilk the fuck out, but can you tell us how a neoliberal bill written by the insurance lobby was good "for the people", even though it made the majority of the citizenry worse-off in the midst of a recession?

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>>131851969
lolno. Never going to happen, lil lil cuck-boiiiii. The GOP are cuckies! They specifically left that provision in their recent bill to let it pass. You will be paying for degenerates FOREVER
>>131855017
>Forced through behind closed doors
This one isn't true. It took 10 months, with dozens of multiple bi-partisan hearings and over 100 amendments.

>>131858763
>private businesses are more efficient than the government
Gee who would have thought

>>131861181
Once you've given out gibs to niggers and spics they're going to REEE when you try to take it away.

>>131862845
Its more that liberals will reeee for them, as we are seeing now.

>>131862034
>GOP reduces medicaid which benefits poor whites
>keeps in shit to pay for fags because the Democrats like that

The real question here is why do Democrats care more about homogays than they do about niggers on medicaid?

>>131850187
mm so basically obamacare gives huge benefits that give insurance companies unlimited liabilities

>preventative care for F R E E
>no annual or lifetime maximum of coverage (this is the big one)
>guarenteed issue

What this means is that if youve got one bad hombre with cancer, he could literally be as a nuke to your book of insurance, forcing rates up bigly.

Now, joe gesund here is going to be looking at these plans and saying ish dont think so so hes gonna drop out of the insurance market altogether.

Now you are into the period of death spiral. Consecutive double digit rate increases means that only people getting 100% subsidy (it ghosts between 1x and 4x the legal definition of povery).

So, death spiral means only the most infirm are still on board, annnnnd yup now insurance companies are losing tons of money so the only way to clear their books (of toxic patience) is to jump ship.

tldr its a massive clusterfuck and if you want i could explain how to fix it.

>>131850187
As someone being forced to buy it because I turned 26 I would say it fails because as a student with an income of zero I'm still forced to buy this shit anyway, despite telling them I have no money. It's basically a government mandated fuck you to anyone who isn't a nigger on welfare.

Additionally the plans available are complete garbage except for a single plan which costs 5000 dollars a year. If I had to stay in the hospital most plans demand at least 400 dollars a day from me, only a single plan (again, the most expensive) pays completely for any time I spend in the hospital.

So I'm being forced to buy shit which is expensive and still not all that great, because the healthcare system is utterly fucking broken due to illegals and niggers constantly running up the costs while the AMA tries to prevent new doctors from being trained in order to keep costs high and their paychecks high- which actually probably leads to people dying due to overworked doctors fucking up.

Also let's not forget about those deductibles you have to pay BEFORE your insurance ever pays for anything. Basically if I got into a car crash and was in the hospital for two weeks I'd have to pay like 3500 or something as a deductible and then 400 dollars each day in the hospital which means I'd get billed 9,100 dollars- basically the same kind of ludicrous shit that was happening before when people didn't all get forced to buy insurance. So like I said I'm forced to buy expensive shit which is essentially useless despite not having a dollar to my name because I'm not a nigger and don't qualify for medicaid.

It's a shitshow more or less.

>>131863337
>As someone being forced to buy it because I turned 26 I would say it fails because as a student with an income of zero I'm still forced to buy this shit anyway, despite telling them I have no money.

your university should have its own healthcare plans that they offer students. your uni website should have info on it.

>
Additionally the plans available are complete garbage except for a single plan which costs 5000 dollars a year. If I had to stay in the hospital most plans demand at least 400 dollars a day from me, only a single plan (again, the most expensive) pays completely for any time I spend in the hospital.

You can no longer be fined for not having insurance.

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>>131850187
>Can any burger give tldr on why Obongocare was such a failure
not a burger, but clearly it was because it made people healthier and happier -- the very anathema to a civil stasis going hot