Can /pol/ give one way to ethically justify contributing to the

I feel sorry for animals. I don't mind at all the needless suffering of people that do stupid shit though.

>>131509802
its an economically efficient way to keep niggers from starving. dead niggers dont vote democrat

>>131509802
No, but if I don't continually see the suffering every day I can pretend it doesn't exist and enjoy my tendies.

Remember hippie cuck if you love animals use a condom.

>>131510694

How do you know all this?

>>131509802
Meat is delicious

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>>131511084
well, maybe they do

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>>131509802
is there literally any actual proof of a e.g. chicken born, raised, and slaughtered in captivity to be suffering?
if it doesnt know anything but its cage it shouldnt be abled to know its suffering

>>131509802
They are tasty.

The weak must fear the strong

>>131511303
instincts

>>131509802
No because it's not needless, now go back to your commune you hippie fuck.

>>131509802
Hunger.

>>131509802
Prove to me that animals can indeed suffer.
And no "they look like they do is not an argument".

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What can i say i love a good chicken sandwich from arbys.

Animals are tasty

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>>131511546
well that literally disproves evolution, doesnt it?
shouldnt generations and generations of chickens living in captivity evolve new instincts to adapt to that environment?

>>131509802
I don't give a shit about ethics. Meat is a cheap, tasty, and easily available form of sustenance. I don't give a fuck about a chicken's life.

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>>131509802
buts my watermelons yos?

Veganism is the ultimate redpill but pol is just a bunch of retarded rednecks that spout the same weak and unsubstantiated excuses, exactly like the people that they hate.

>>131510694
>dead niggers don't vote Democrat
Oh my sweet summer burger

>>131511693
Animals can obviously feel pain and suffer. Kick a dog and see what happens to it. There are even zoo animals that basically get depressed if the enclosure is too small.

Not that it matters regarding food though.

>>131511926
There is LITERALLY nothing wrong with eating animals, the human even needs meat to be healthy.

>>131509802
They are just animals, until the 20th century they were though to not even have conscious thought.

>>131509802
If God didn't want us to eat chicken, he wouldn't make them so tasty. End of story.

>>131509802
I want to Fucking eat
>how's that?

>>131510694
This

>>131512024
>Kick a dog and see what happens to it.
Not an argument.
Just because something reacts to outside stimuli doesn't mean that it can feel pain.

What if I programmed a robot which started to cry if it was kicked? Would the computer then feel pain?

>>131512205
The difference being that a dog has all the nerve endings that allow it feel pain. Stop being retarded. If you beat a dog it whimpers because the nerves register pain.

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>>131511495

>>131512337
What exactly is the difference between electrical signals from a sensor and electrical signals from sensors in the skin?

What if I programmed the sensors to send exactly the same signals in exactly the same strength that the sensors in the skin of a dog would send and the computer would interpret that as pain?

>>131511926
>Weak unsubstantiated claim.

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>>131509802
I don't have to, my dear brainlet. There is no argument you could use against the continued "suffering and death" of animals that could not also be used as justification to kill every living thing on Earth.

>Suffering is bad!
All living things suffer. Do you know how few animals live lives without pain and then die peacefully in their sleep? Virtually none. Life is brutish and violent, that is nature. Things breed only so that their offspring can suffer and die in turn. The only constant of life is that it ends, and it rarely ends pleasantly. If you actually believed that the mere fact that animals die is enough reason not to tend great flocks of them then I a fiorti there is no reason why we shouldn't set off a nuke every three miles across the entire planet and terminate this concentration camp we call a planet right now.

>Death is bad unless it is natural!
Unless you are actually a Catholic Priest and mean to tell me that the human animal is actually distinct from the beasts of the field, I do not see what exactly is "unnatural" about our corralling and devouring of chickens. Ants farm aphids. It is perfectly natural.

>We shouldn't eat animals because it isn't necessary!
Shouldn't! There's a word I like hearing, what does that mean exactly? Are you really saying "I don't think we should," or are you actually saying "there's an objective moral standard that I believe all behavior should be held to and it condemns the eating of animal flesh"?

If you'd like to make a rational case for objective morality, sir, be my guest. I will happily judge your offering. If you'd prefer me to do it, I suppose I could but I promise you, church scholars have been doing this since before your ancestors were first shipped as farm equipment to the New World, and I can say from experience that they do not share your views, and likely, unlike you, they did not get their perspective from Vegan Gains but from the immortal science of Aristotelian Rationalism.

>>131509802
>Animal rights are more important than human rights
Learn to prioritise

>>131509802

they so tasty xd xd

>>131509802
Give me a single reason I should give a fuck about the suffering of chickens. They exist solely so that I can eat them. All other factors are irrelevant.

>>131512528
>what if I program...

But you can't can you. Not yet at least. Shit argument. Animals feel pain. Don't believe me? Go /r/ the webm of the girl snipping off a mouse's penis.

However just because they feel pain doesn't mean we shouldn't eat meat or mass produce meat. If we didn't have low standards for animals, there would be literal food riots.

Shit costs money

>>131512528
It's still not a nerve. Nerves are not as simple as "electrical signal from point A to point B." There are pain receptors specifically made to register the feeling of pain, and dogs have them too.

The real debate is whether or not animals cam feel emotional pain. Not whether complex animals like mammals can feel pain. They obviously can because their nervous systems are structures pretty much the same way as ours.

>>131512337
>What is a neural network

>>131512893
Are structured*

>>131509802
What's your solution faggot?
Let them all go?
They've been bread in captivity for thousands of years, that's why they are useless and retarded.

if you were to let them go the population of predators would increase greatly until all the animals released are dead then there would be mass extinctions of those animals.
HOW WOW WHAT A GOOD WAY TO SAVE THE ENVIRONMENT XD VEGAN 4 lyfe <3.

Either that you or genocide all the populations and let the meat go to waste and then force nearly everyone to eat fucking vegetables and then everyone becomes weak manlets conveniently eat low amount of food while our billionaire overloads eat luscious stakes.

M8. The mah animals have feelins bromeme is a fucking psyop to get the populous eating cheaply at the convenience of the people in charge.

If you can't take the meat pill then you might as well submit yourself for Euthanasia now.

>>131512591
Fucking phone, a fortiori. Fortiori.

>>131512914
That models the movement of how the network works, not the actual composition of nerve endings.

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>>131509802
God made them out of meat for a fucking reason.

>>131509802
They are delicious

>>131509802
Look at any wildlife documentary and see how nature can be cruel.

>>131512807
>But you can't can you.
It just would take a lot of time...
>Go /r/ the webm of the girl snipping off a mouse's penis.
Irrelevant

>The real debate is whether or not animals cam feel emotional pain.
Exactly. Classifying pain as some kind of reaction to outside stimuli is meaningless.
The question whether animals feel pain has to be connected to their level of consciousness and the answer to that is "definitely "in some way" less then humans".

>>131512893
I don't think you quite understand how retarded a chicken is.
They eat each other and their own eggs even after they've been fed. Maybe they feel "emotional" pain but it's not on the same level a dog feels pain.

>>131509802
these things don't have a neocortex therefore they can't appreciate pain

therefore there is no suffereing

>get out of the city
>grow our own food
>eat what WE kill
>get back to nature
>profit

If Whites took over the IT industry (every related discipline), we could live anywhere we choose.

>>131511738
Uh no.

Antibiotics work because we kill all bacteria before they are able to develop a resistance to the antibiotics. If you don't take your antibiotics as prescribed, those that survive will develop resistance to it.

If the environmental pressure is too much, i.e. a powerful drug or mass slaughter, then no change will be made. However, we know that chickens born in captivity have some physical differences than normal chickens. They receive less light so they have smaller eyes for example.

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>>131509802
Morality is always subjective therefore irrelevant.

They dont suffer. They are just meat robots which feel nothing.

>>131513349
>Morality is always subjective
You can justify LITERALLY anything with that.

Even genociding all animefags.

>>131513257
>take a lot of time
except you don't have the technology for it you brainlet.

Stop talking about shit you don't understand.

>irrelevant
hurr its irrelevant because I say so

So if I punch you in the face and you start to cry does that mean you don't feel pain? what exactly entitles you to feel pain and not an animal? because you can communicate it?

I can argue crying or saying "ouch" is reacting to stimuli

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>>131513328
you cant add special circumstances where evolution doesnt apply to validate your hypothesis

im not talking about antibiotics either but chickens ""mentality"" in which they supposedly suffer from living in captivity
such traits should be the first ones to go in any logical evolutionary process, no?

>>131509802
No, there never was an actual reason for it to begin with, it's a great thing that alternatives are pursued so fiercely.

>>131509802

No. That's why I stopped eating animals and products from animals

>>131509802
What's bad about pain? I know people and animals find pain unpleasant, but surely you're not suggesting that pleasure is good and pain is bad, fullstop, are you? Utilitarianism is a mental disorder. There are times when pleasure is bad and pain is good, so why are you trying to reduce the pain of chickens when you haven't even shown their pain is bad? You might even make the world worse, in the balance of goodness, by reducing their pain. And even if you're a utilitarian who takes it as basic that pleasure is good and pain is bad and to reduce pain is to improve the balance--it's not even clear that reducing the suffering of chickens will improve the aggregate good. Do you have a crystal ball that allows you to see what the effects of this reduction will be in 20 years? Or 100 years? Perhaps you're misguided, and pursing the welfare of chickens will have a profound net negative impact on total happiness in the distant future, in which case, it would be the wrong thing to do.

>>131512055

>the human even needs meat to be healthy

Source?

The word needless makes it a loaded question.

Do you have a better option where human species can retain our omnivorous advantage, while stopping entirely from consuming meat?

>>131513349
Oh you can absolutely make a rational case for objective morality, but it requires the capacity for logic which the B12-deficient brain of the Vegan lacks. I have often pondered if the veganism of the Hindus had in some way an effect upon their inability to meaningfully project culture and power outside of their subcontinent unless it was first adopted by other, less honest interpretations of religions such as Buddhism.

One can say for instance that via inductive logic one may prove that it is not possible to be sane while still rejecting the moral duty of intellectual honesty--since it is not possible to honestly believe that one should not honestly assess facts. No sane person has ever, fully understanding the information, ever believed that 2+2=6. Therefore, we may say that a lack of intellectual honesty is actually a form of moral insanity. It is, literally, not "right."

Once you enter the realm of logically derived morality you are no longer simply discussing good and evil as flavorings upon a pastry but as facts of existence. If you acknowledge reality you are right, and if you do not you are wrong, and it is as simple as that.

>>131513516
>except you don't have the technology for it you brainlet.
What?
To simulate a dog reacting to getting kicked? That is really not that hard, just very time consuming.

>hurr its irrelevant because I say so
No its irrelevant because the point I wanted to make is that classifying pain as "reacting in a specific way to stimuli" is meaningless.
Feeling pain is inherently related to being conscious, I am conscious (for all you and I know) so I can feel pain.
The question now is "how conscious" is a chicken?

>>131513600
>you can't add speci

why not? Laws of gravitation have many special circumstances. Like relevativistic conditions.

Why would chicken's mentality change? What evolutionary advantage does it give? Also how could it change when the environmental pressure is too great? If a meteor struck us, how on earth would we be able to adapt to it? The environmental pressure on our species would be far too great for anyone to have the chance of adapting

>>131513273
I never said anything about chickens. I'm pro meat and everything. I just think it's retarded to say that complex animals can't feel physical pain when they have nervous systems that more or less work the same way.

>needless
Nigger are you aware that there's been a food crisis for the past decade?

>>131513717
Let me reformulate that. Being vegan requires you to consume supplements, to make up for your lack of meat, to stay healthy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegan_nutrition
If you don't trust wikipedia the sources are at the bottom.

>>131513888
>we can simulate pain through electric signals
quite literally impossible. please stop implying this is possible.

>consciousness is inherently related to feeling pain
>"i can build a machine to feel pain"

so machines are conscious now?
also
>i am conscious
prove it

>>131511926
This troll is all over pol today, the autism must make him feel like he is actually living

One can consume animals products from happy, free range, well treated animals. It's not all or nothing. I swear those hippie, free range eggs from cage free chickens taste better anyway. Hell, one can even make an argument for going vegetarian (need dem eggs tho).

Veganism is retarded insanity however.

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>>131513788
>all those logical fallacies
Thank you, come again.

>>131514163
That's just an average Australian, newfag.

>>131509802
What is the cause of the picture shown? If you have ever worked with farm animals which most likely you haven't because most city folk have never done a hard Day's work, you would know that is from the chickens pecking and fighting each other. Usually the weakest. This is not man made issue. You are the bird dying on the ground as the strong eat your nutrients

>>131509802
pain and suffering is the consequence of man's duty to be soaked in blood, it makes little difference from where it comes. that blood is needed to create strong men, without which the world would cease to function

>>131514131

B12 is the only thing you can't get through plants which requires you to eat one multivitamin pill a day. Every other nutrient can be consumed through plants

>>131513788
But that still requires for "facts" to be proven. It has nothing to do with morality. All you're doing is saying that if you reject facts, which are based on objectively research (like the scientific method) then you should be categorized as insane by not being morally honest. You still need something to be objectively true.

>>131514263
Not an argument

Also
>that le edgy/irrelevant pic
>that flag
Do the world a favor and get the guts to hang yourself

>>131513888
Physical pain is not related to consciousness. It's a response that's triggered by a specific receptor.

You mentioned the dog earlier, and how if it's kicked and whimpers it might just be a reaction to stimuli. How does it know how to respond? How does it know the difference between being petted and being kicked hard? Being kicked hard registers as an unpleseant experience. Being petted does not. Why is that?

>>131514162
>quite literally impossible. please stop implying this is possible.
Not what I said, stop misrepresenting me.
I said it is easy to build something which acts the same way as dog when getting kicked.
That is really not that hard.

>so machines are conscious now?
No. BUT THAT IS EXACTLY THE POINT.
Feeling pain and consciousness are inherently related.

>prove it
I quote my self here: "(for all you and I know)". It is a reasonable assumption that both of us are conscious. Of course it is not more then an assumption.

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>>131513900
>Laws of gravitation have many special circumstances.
no they dont, the full theory can be applied to all cases however in macroscopic and non-extreme cases, parts of it can be neglected or the expression simplified and still produce very precise results

one would think that having environmental pressure would encourage change to alleviate that pressure
industrial farming of chickens has been going on for decades and hundreds of generations have been iterated through, i.e. not comparable to the necessity of instantaneous change by le m'eteor
yet people still claim that chickens arent suited to such an environment
why does the supposed evolution give special circumstances for cases which does not fit the hypothesis?

rake yourself to death my leaf

>>131514350
Thats more or less what I said...

>>131514224
Free range is unsustainable.

>>131514479
>Play of the Game
>Roadhog
>Eliminated Niglet

Someone make this.

>>131514551

Yes, that's right. But I don't see the problem. Why is taking one supplement a day a bad thing?

>>131509802
They taste good and I'm higher on the food chain.

>>131513600
>>131511738
Genetic memory

>>131514596
Sounds like we need some population control of certain groups then. Anyway, it's not like nutrionlets bother forking over the money for the better food option.

>>131514596
By that I meant in regards to food supply and population

>>131513717
>What is B12?

>>131514263
Name one, brainlet, and if you use a Stirner meme I will spank you in front of your mother.

>>131514635
If you need supplements your diet isn't healthy.

Can OP give one reason to ethically justify xer existence?
>pro-tip: xe can't

Factory farming and stuff is fucked up, definitely sad to see the animals suffer.

Do you think nature is better?

Have you ever seen a predator toy with its prey as it eats it throat first?

>>131514493
>It's a response that's triggered by a specific receptor.
But as I just argued that is completely meaningless.
If something just acts like it is feeling pain, it does NOT mean it feels pain.
That was the example of a computer imitating a dog getting kicked.

>unpleseant experience. Being petted does not.
These are things you can only talk about if you assume some level of consciousness.
And exactly here is the problem.
Does the dog understand why it is reacting the way it does?
If yes, it feels pain in a similar way as we do and it is conscious.
If no, then the dog has no concept of pain as we do. If it is just a biological computer with only reacts a certain way to certain stimuli (after all a tree does so too) then it does not "feel" pain.

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>>131514635
>Why is taking one supplement a day a bad thing?
why is consuming B12 in a natural way a bad thing?
>lol goy you should be THANKFUL for the flouride in my.. our water
>you goyim should eat these (((supplements))) they are good for you

>>131514914

Why?

>>131509802
>animals suffer
it's called life. There's a fuckton of needless suffering. If you're going to use loaded bait questions, can they at least not suck so bad? I thought liberals were supposed to be intelligent?

Are you questions why we have factory farms? It's because of poor people. Without factory farms, poor people would starve and riot. They can't afford free range chicken, grass fed beef, a diverse amount of fruits and veggies, etc.

>>131514635
>Why is taking one supplement a day a bad thing?
It isn't, it just demonstrates that a vegan diet is not a natural way of living.

>>131514635
Vitamin B12 was made to treat precocious anemia. It was never intended to be used as a lifetime supplement. It's a pretty recent invention (1950s), and we still don't know the repercussions of using it for a lifetime as part of the diet. For all we know it might reduce life expectancy.

>>131513717
Evolution
There's some protein directly related to higher cognitive function derived from eating meat, I can't recall it offhand

>>131515041
Who said it's natural?

>>131509802
>Can /pol/ give one way to ethically justify contributing to the needless pain suffering and death of animals in 2017?
Can you give me one ethical reason why should anyone give a fuck what happened to some chicken that ended up in your plate?
Have you nothing else better to do?

>>131514374
Not at all. Empiricism, which you call the Scientific Method, is a Rational construct, which is to say it simply applies the same method I have just described to the senses--however, one does not need empiricism to prove things to be factually true.

In fact, I have already provided you with one such example: Maths. Mathematics, and geometry as established by Euclid were not proven empirically firstly because empiricism did not exist at the time but secondly because they were primarily proven in the form of thought experiments.

Do you think that Euclid actually took a line and subdivided it infinitely? Do you think that Pythagoras actually went and measured a bunch of triangles to derive his theorem? Of course not, it was done mentally through logic.

Similarly the laws of Empiricism themselves depend upon rationalism. Truth derived from reason alone, not through the senses. This is the core of Aristotle's method. It is the foundation for everything you see before you.

THUS, the facts involved in regards to intellectual honesty need not be empirically proven, but only logically. I cannot find you a 1 or a 2 anywhere in the universe but you know that combined they make 3.

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>>131509802
I'm hungry

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Ouch.

>>131515425
Meant for
>>131514479

>>131514975
Again, how does it know that it has to run away when it's being kicked? And not when it's petted? They don't register the same way.

For a computer, a response like that would have to be made using variables like speed of the object and or pressure. A dog's nervous system can't do that. And even then that would only work for moving objects hitting you, it wouldn't work for things like sharp objects.

Something tells it that being kicked is dangerous to its own health. It's the unpleasant response of pain that signals to its brain that it has to run away. It understands that being kicked gives it an unpleasant feeling, with the unpleasant feeling being physical pain. So it runs away. If it didn't hurt the dog, it would just stay there.

>>131515600
>Again, how does it know that it has to run away when it's being kicked? And not when it's petted?
How does a sunflower know how to turn towards the light?
The problem here is inherently related to consciousness, the dogs reaction can be a biological computer or his own conscious action (or something in between).

>Something tells it that being kicked is dangerous to its own health.
Exactly the point I was trying to make. If a dog has a concept such as "its own health" it can "feel" based on that.
A sunflower has no concept of "its own health" so it can not act because of that.

The entire point I was trying to make is that talking about pain as something which you can detect just by seeing how something reacts is stupid, unless you also want to assert that a sunflower feels joy when turned to the sun, which is utterly absurd.

>>131509802
it don't matter

>>131510694
Not in Chicago...

>>131509802
But they are delicious

>>131515197
Well never analyzed that way. That's worth thinking about it.

>>131509802
i like their meat, it's delicious.
oh and if i didn't they'd be all extinct.

>2017
>justifying working 6 months for free for a bunch beurocrats in DC

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>>131509802

If you can't respect the animals that give you the meat, you are no better than a liberal.

Highest quality meat is always the most expensive, why? Because Meat from an animal that's lived in a good environment with a good diet is the way nature intended it to be.

Take the Meat Pill and buy ethically sourced meat from proper farmers instead of cheap shit from mexican + polish meatwagons.

small farming is the real solution...
meat animals do react adversely to their mass containment and slaughter...the amount of adrenaline released into their systems while awaiting slaughter is proof of this as fact...they are in fear during the final slaughter....
but on a small farm, where the animal is killed quickly by a human they "know", they aren't filled with fear and their bodies aren't pumped full of adrenaline....
so the real answer is raise your own meat and slaughter it yourself or buy your meat from a small farm (good luck finding one that can pass all the regs that bigAg uses to keep them out of the market)
this doesn't even take into consideration the large amount of antibiotics and vaccinations given to the animals on the factory farm that aren't needed for the animals on the small farm....
small farm food is best and has always been the best...hence, the reason why governments seek to control all methods of food production....control the food, control the people

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A happy cow is a healthy cow
A healthy cow is a TASTY cow

>>131511105
>>131511360
>>131511726
>>131516673
>>131517612
This meme has to go. Most flavour comes from spices and seasoning. Meat in itself if bland and boring.

>>131509802
Ethics concern humans only.

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>>131509802
The only offered justification will be Jewish memes. This is futile. Whites are doomed.

>>131509802
OP==> https://youtu.be/yMVLBUeJeV8

>>131509802
Meat is good bruh. Stop behaving like a woman.

>>131518328
Nah bro I have cooked deer meat directly over a fire with nothing else. Still delicious

>>131518328
>that lack of umami receptors

We need to keep consuming meat to not go the way of the panda.

>>131509802
in nature, animals of different species eat and kill each other. theres your justification.

>>131509802
>I support murdering babies and I'm really concerned about the happiness of chickens