How can Americans be nationalists when they are descended from

>>131160739
America was never great.

But here's the thing.

We can make it great.

>what is patriotism

BASED
IMMIGRANT
GRANDPARENTS

>>131160739
>How can you be nationalist when you're ancestors forsake their home countries.
This country is a free country dumbass, if my ancestors stayed in Germany Mohammad would be fucking my sister by now. My ancestors built this county from the ground up and I say that's reason enough to love my country.

>>131160857
Not without a fundamental change in America's national character. America was flawed from the start because America was founded by people who couldn't make it in their own countries. The Pilgrims were not proud Englishmen. They were people who thought minor religious differences were more important than being English.

>>131160739
Because the country my ancestors come from is now a massively over censored densely populated fuckhole full of radical Islamic terrorists while the country I live in is quite comfy and relatively speaking I pay very little in taxes for living in a western nation. Also my country is just 90 percent cucked instead of 100 percent cucked.

>>131160739
Because my ancestors chose to do that. I didn't choose to do that.

the fact that I can legally defend myself if someone is trying to murder me is a pretty nice right to have and something that i wouldn't have if my ancestors hadn't fled.

>>131161181
>relatively speaking I pay very little in taxes for living in a western nation.
That's exactly the attitude I'm talking about. Americans care more about money than they do about being part of a community. Therefore, it is impossible for Americans to be nationalists. A true nationalist would stick with his country through thick and thin.
>>131160968
Patriotism is love of the fatherland. You obviously don't love your fatherland if you're willing to sail away from it for a little bit of money.
>>131161078
>This country is a free country
That's another problem with the American mentality. Americans obsess over freedom, which is little more than an abstraction. A nation is defined by a real people of flesh and blood, not some phantom idea like freedom.
>>131161320
Not just your ancestors. Nearly all Americans' ancestors. That is what's wrong with America. Our national identity was formed by people who hated their own.
>>131161326
Do you think America has a monopoly on that?

durr how can anyone be nationalist when we're all from africa (We're not) durr

>>131161763
I obsess over freedom because unlike in Germany I can say whatever the hell i want about the holocaust, the government, and muslims with no legal reprocussions. That freedom makes all the difference.

>>131161967
I'm not talking about Africans. African Americans are the one major ethnic group who didn't come here voluntarily. That explains why they are much more nationalist than white Americans.

>>131162124
Freedom is certainly important. I don't want to live under an emperor. But freedom is not the ONLY thing that is important. Americans have a freedom fetish. We are so obsessed with freedom that we forget everything else that matters.

Also, freedom in America is largely an illusion. The First Amendment makes it illegal, on paper, for the government to suppress dissent, but the government has done that anyway many times in American history. Sometimes the courts have upheld freedom of speech. Other times, they haven't.

>>131162475
That's why the second amendment exists. If the government goes overboard the people can stop them. This country has one of the oldest governments remaining in the world, most other countries have gone through serious changes in the past 200 years but this one has changed very little of at all. Doesn't that point to an overall success?

>>131162125
we are all africans, friend. nationalism is dumb!!!!!

there is literally no difference between bill gates and a congolese cannibal!!

>>131162768
>If the government goes overboard the people can stop them
We tried to do exactly that in the Civil War. The tyrannical Lincoln government crushed us brutally and cruelly. Ever since then, prospects of physically resisting the federal despotism have been nonexistent in America.

>>131160739
Because Americans are idiots.

>>131162768
>this one has changed very little of at all.
Not true at all. The union of the Founding Fathers was voluntary. Dishonest Abe destroyed that voluntary union and replaced it with an a union held together by the blood of thousands of innocent Southerners.

>>131163134
You did it wrong. You pushed for independence which alienated a large amount of Americans who then believed they were fighting to keep the country together rather than for Lincoln and his agenda. If you had pushed for reform you'd have had a shit ton more support.

Whoever unironically believes Americans cannot be patriotic or nationalistic because they left the previous country they came from to start a new life is blind.
If you cannot see the fact that Americans are incredibly proud of the heritage they have then you do not look.
It was no "minor differences in religion", we literally invented the idea of separation of church and state.
I don't know why I respond to there bait threads I just love my country so much no matter how much I disagree with most any form of government.
Fuck you people who think anything bad of americans.
It's pure jealousy.
It's like your ancestors were weak faggots who would rather live under the yoke of oppression than take a risk looking for new land. It's like your forefathers thought " hah those stupid pilgrims they don't stand a chance! They will wash ashore in weeks, ship battered and disease ridden!"
Now you just get raped by refugees

>>131163276
So this isn't about Nationalism in America being impossible, but about some butt hurt southerners who are upset that their push to independence was crushed more than a hundred years ago? Whether the union was voluntary or not, once you integrate into a country it takes blood to get out of one. The Scots learned this the hard way after their first union with England. The South lost due to nationalism in the north which produced soldiers willing to fight and die to hold the union together. Pushing for independence alienated states such as Kentucky which ended the rebellion before it began.

>>131163375
That's not what a free government is. A free government, if the word is to have any meaning at all, is one which rests on consent rather than domination and force. Lincoln's war of mass murder against the South proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that the US government rests on force and domination.
>>131163968
The conversation is about why America's founding values are misguided. The Civil War is part of that. Americans believe that their country has a virtual monopoly on freedom. The Civil War is one of many things that prove that isn't true.
>>131163968
>Whether the union was voluntary or not, once you integrate into a country it takes blood to get out of one
If the states had known that in 1787, they never would have ratified the Constitution.
>>131163968
>lost due to nationalism in the north which produced soldiers willing to fight and die to hold the union together.
More like conscripts and hordes of Irish and Russian mercenaries.

>>131163765
>Whoever unironically believes Americans cannot be patriotic or nationalistic because they left the previous country they came from to start a new life is blind.
The can be jingoistic in their foreign policy, but their loyalty is to the state, not to their nation.
>>131163765
>If you cannot see the fact that Americans are incredibly proud of the heritage they have then you do not look.
What heritage?
>>131163765
>It was no "minor differences in religion", we literally invented the idea of separation of church and state.
False. The Puritans were just as intolerant as the people they fled.
>>131163765
>Now you just get raped by refugees
That's only true of western Europe, which is most heavily under American influence. Say what you will of the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact, but eastern Europe is still almost entirely European. The only major non-European minority there is Gypsies.

>>131164306
The government is free, almost any involvement in civilian life requires consent, this is in stark comparison to European countries. A war that occurred more than a hundred years ago that was sparked when a large portion of the country pushed for independence rather than reform is not a good example of a countrie's values. The better example is how the Union reabsorbed the south with little to no consequences and allowed them to thumb their nose and directly disobey the north's reprisals. The fact that you can still wave the Flag of Dixie is an excellent example of this. I'd love to hear about the "many other examples". Both aides had large quantities of Mercaneries from a wide cast of countries, where the North had Germans and Irish the South had Poles and English.

>>131165994
>The government is free, almost any involvement in civilian life requires consent, this is in stark comparison to European countries.
Excuse me? What government are you talking about, because it damn sure isn't this one. The government commands, and if you do not obey, they throw you in prison. That's the opposite of freedom.
>>131165994
>A war that occurred more than a hundred years ago that was sparked when a large portion of the country pushed for independence rather than reform is not a good example of a countrie's values
They had a right to independence under the Constitution, which was originally a voluntary compact of states.
>>131165994
>The better example is how the Union reabsorbed the south with little to no consequences and allowed them to thumb their nose and directly disobey the north's reprisals.
That's not true at all. The North disenfranchised nearly all white southerners and set up a military junta that stole millions of dollars from them at a time when their economy was totally destroyed. The south was not allowed to industrialize until WW2. All of these things the government did by force.
>>131165994
>The fact that you can still wave the Flag of Dixie is an excellent example of this
I'm not really interested in that. The Confederate government was founded on force just like the US government. The difference is that the US government is still around, and Americans hypocritically boast about "freedom."
>>131165994
>I'd love to hear about the "many other examples".
In every war the USA has fought, they have used repression of civil liberties in the name of the war effort.

>>131160739
Nobody, or not many people relative to the total population ever came here for "freedom", they came here for jobs.
Also
> How can anybody be a nationalist when the idea only even started in the 1800s?

>>131166663
Which is also not a good reason to abandon your community.
>>131166663
>How can anybody be a nationalist when the idea only even started in the 1800s?
Political ideas of nationalism have changed over time, but the important thing to remember is that a nation is a people, not a form of government. The Basques, for example, are a nation, because they have existed for hundreds of years under many different governments. Americans are not a nation. America is a mixture of people whose ancestors chose to alienate themselves from their nations.

>>131166602
You know, the government that you can sue for acting against your rights? The one that requires a warrant from a civilian court to dig around your personal space? The one that can only search your car under reasonable suspicion or consent? Where in the constitution does it allow states to declare independence? You mean the board that basically rebuilt the south. Southerners were given full rights upon their rentry to the union. So you're an anarchist, probably fucking Antifa. Which country can compete with the US freedom wise? I can only think of two, Australia and New Zealand. Every other country lags by roughly 40 years. So rationing is a repression of civil liberties? And I'm sure building a country from a third world shit hole into the world's third greatest economy is too.

>>131160857
You really can't. To make America great you're going to have shake off your Americanness and that would mean you're not really America anymore.
Sure, you'll be occupying the same space as America, and you'll have the same language and possibly flag, but you would never call yourself American or identify with the America now.

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>>131160739
Because my ancestors chose to adopt a NEW nationality in a WHITE country.
Therefore, I am an AMERICAN nationalist, which originally meant a WHITE nationalist until our politicians betrayed us.

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>>131170536
>pic related

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>>131160739
>colonists pursuit of more money
you mean pursuit of happiness, you materialistic slobbo. There was no nation, until our ancestors made a viable foundation here in this land. And what's the difference if there is 200 nations, or 1 giant nation? I'll tell you, 200 nations is a checkmate towards a totalitarian government that ignores the will of the people.