What does /pol/ think of tradesmen and trades school? Is it

>>131100870
it's ok, depends on you

t. tradesman

>>131101034
What do you do specifically?

Also how much do you make?

>>131100870

That's a fucking nice wall.

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worth it just to not be surrounded by millennial faggots and HR roasties all day

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wa_nsyyFDeY

Dude. Not getting a liberal arts degree is better than getting a liberal arts degree. If you're gonna end up making food at McDonald's you might as well start 3 years earlier and without 50k+ debt.

That being said trade schools are way superior to useless collage degrees. If you want to go to colage get a degree in something that will allow you to get a job in that field (STEM and such).

>>131101453
Shit I left sage from an earier reply.

>>131101589
No worries

>>131101134
That's the shittiest wall I've ever seen. It has a giant fucking hole in it.

>>131100870
Depends on you.

Most people who do degrees have a hard time getting a job out of college, but settle into something marginally related. For instance engineering students becoming industrial designers or working making concrete blocks, accounting students becoming managers and office admins, computer science students becoming graphic designers and maintenance technicians.

The same thing applies in the trades I assume. For instance being an electrician is a good starting point for working with CCTV, at least around here.

Basically education is in general good, so long as it's practical, and you don't drop out.

>>131100870

Plumbing, hvac and electrician are god tier for easy money.

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All the young people I know who are doing alright either have a job which didn't require a degree or started with the military. Everyone else is choking on debt and working shit jobs.

College is nice if you actually need to learn something for the career you want to pursue, but it's pretty worthless otherwise to get a degree. Take a few classes to learn the stuff you need to learn, then get the hell out of there.

>tfw do elevator repairs

set to make $60 an hour with lots of OT available once I complete my apprenticeship.

>>131101932
>hvac
>god-tier money
Please anon.

I'm a welder. I got my certification in about 9 months. I'm currently making 22$ an hour as an ironworker. Honestly it's dangerous work and rough on your body. But I have coworkers making 35$ an hour. Plus overtime as well. But I like welding a lot. I have welders at home as well. The trades are good to get into, but don't be an auto mechanic, they make shitty pay. Diesel mechanic pays good though.

>>131101810
it's called an embrasure.

If you enjoy it, most trades are good bets. You have to find the right one for you though. I tried out electrician work for a while, and it was interesting but I hated the construction lifestyle (lots of travel). I'm now a machinist and I'm learning about the machines, programming, quality control, etc.

>>131102042
OR you can have free college, not have to work shit jobs to pay debt.

>>131101920
Basically have a job in mind, and don't expect to be able to jump around jobs

I was on an electricians crew a decade ago. 18 hour days in the Texas heat surrounded by non-whites.

>>131101932
Plumbing actually sounds fun. How long does it take to get into? Can I work for myself and under the table?

>>131100870
Can someone redpill me even how to start? I mean there isn't a college for this stuff right?

>>131101920
>CS degree
>trouble finding a job
The only way you're going to be a "graphic designer" or "maintenance technician" is if you're an absolute fucking idiot.

>>131100870
>trade: contributes and develops to society
>liberal arts: fucking nothing
Only a leaf would ask this

>>131100870
If you're not doing STEM, accounting or medicine, stay the fuck out of college and get into a trade.
For good advice on this subject check out this channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/AaronClarey

>>131103118
Go to a trade school.

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>>131100870
A liberal arts degree is useless for employment though, either get a trade or go for a real degree

>>131102389
I make lower six figures working HVAC.

>>131101589
You know Sage goes in the options field and not name, right?

>>131100870
UK / US sparkys

I'm a UK Sparky looking to move to the states. I'm sick of this shit hole. Anything I need to know? Do I need to retrain?

>>131100870
>go into welding
>enjoy scuba diving
>spend a couple hrs getting certified for scuba
>work in tropical cruise-ship ports doing bomb-detections for Norwegian cruise lines
>start out at 127kUS

________________________

>suck at school
>go to community college
>learn golf course management by learning excel spreadsheets and chem 097
>find out there's a YUGE deficit and they need positions filled
>live in Japan
>live in hawaii
>live in florida
Make six figures

BOOM

Both 2 yr trade degrees. Both need positions filled. Both easy as fuck. Both have real-life advantages.

Put me in your will when you die happy with wiggle-hipped expats grinding your dick.

>>131102647
fuck off Mr. fancy word man

>>131103273
sage goes in all fields m8.

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Tradie college is a great education, when choosing electives make sure to go for the essentials

>wife beating
>pitbull husbandry
>drink driving

>>131100870
I work for a self employed plumber in Mass - he makes $250k/yr.
Spends most of it on pills tho..!

>>131100870
>a liberal arts degree
is not a real thing. There are liberal arts schools that give degrees just like any other college, but they are usually smaller in size than the average college.

>>131103320
In Chicago you will have to test. Electricians make about 50/hr working for a contractor in the city. Chicago regulations are very strict, since the fire.

>>131101932
HVAC anon here, money is good and you'll never be out of work.....but it ain't easy.

>>131100870
For plebs that dropped out of school

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>>131103574
>when your life can be summed up in a meme
>feelsbadman

Trades can be a great alternative to traditional schooling and careers.

Some pros:
>Don't need to spend thousands upon thousands of dollars to get a degree
>Almost guaranteed to have work if youre smart and get into a trade your area needs
>Good profit margins if your not a dog fucker

Cons:
>Long hours
>Mostly hard manual labour
>Old guys always bullshitting and pretending they know how to do something but in reality they are drunk or stoned and are more likely to fuck shit up
>Shitty OHS workers constantly making life hard
>can be seasonal based

Things to avoid at all costs:
>Unions
>unpaid apprenticeships

t.general contractor

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>>131103574
I'll always be glad their are uninformed yuppie faggots like you who think all trade jobs are low earning. It keeps the competition away.

>>131102389
Nigger I've made 3k in my time off.

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ex-neet trade school success story reporting

>>131100870
Trades are a great alternative to the countless worthless degrees you could get. If you're not going STEM or business I'd say go for a trade, just make sure you look into the path to get certified at higher levels, because that's where the money comes in.

>>131100870
>Be me
>low voltage electrician
>easy job 90% of the time
>make $35 an hour
>regularly get prevailing wage @ $65
>end up making about 90-100k a year.
>only requires a two year apprenticeship

I'd say it is pretty sweet. No PC culture. I can swear and call people faggots when they are being faggots. All men in the trade. Mostly conservative if you avoid unions.

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>>131103949
current project

>>131103258
I just started my apprenticeship, dads company and we have great connections to the local union so I was born into great privilege.
>21
>living in cuckifrornia
>making more that 40k per year that is only going to keep going up
>vacation fund and 401k
All the liberal fags going to college and living below poverty. Meanwhile Me and my wife have our own place living the American dream.

>>131101134
God I imagine the autism needed in order to cut those rocks to make em stack so tightyly

>>131103984
Also they give me a van and pay my gas and buy all my tools. If you don't have a degree and you aren't in a trade you are probably not making as much as you could be.

>>131100870
>tradesmen and trades school?
A great option for people who are too poor, stupid, or fucked up to get an actual career in society.

>>131103949
We would be BFFL easily.

>>131103863

It's a joke nigger, I used to work in the lift trade before I got my comfy creative media work.

Memes aside, learning a solid trade to a high standard is a one of the best life choices you can make. Lift engineering was my Plan B.

>>131100870
Honest work, good pay, steady income. Often you make more than an office job that requires a 4 year degree. Perfectly respectable in my book.

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>>131104178
>A great option for people who are too poor, stupid, or fucked up to get an actual career in society
This is what idiots believe

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>>131103949
how about a quick rundown on what you do

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>>131104178
As if it isn't an actual career. Who the fuck do you think builds all those places you work at? I make six figures most years. Don't have student debts. They pay my family's medical care in full. Free life insurance for two years salary. Three weeks of paid vacation. I am always off work before 1pm. I wonder how well you are doing in the job market, being that you are retarded and all.

>>131100870
If you want to work really hard. Also fuck trades school. I'm a drywaller and every once in a while i'll see someone on a boarding crew or a taping crew get hired and fired in the same day.. It's unrealistic to work under building codes to the extent that schools would teach you

>>131104178
t. neet

>>131100870
Trades are one of the best things you can ever do in life. Even if after a year you decide you hate it, you gain a lot of handy skills to have.

>>131103453
>britbong complaining about Americans using fancy words

Truly a strange timeline we are in.

Unless your name is achmed, in which case, why aren't you driving a truck right now?

>>131100870
tradesmen, whilst noble, are on the verge of being wiped out by robots. at least liberal arts have a few years before the same happens to them.

>>131101810

jej

>>131103320
Best part is, chicago has shittons of kurwas

>>131100870
That is an excellent idea anon. I met a Ferrari mechanic that makes $350/hour plus shop time.

>>131100870
Trade school was good here in Alberta until the recession now the graduates have arts degree tier job prospects

At least with a university degree you can move to another city, with a trade school diploma people think you're some community college DeVry retard

>>131101810
what do you think a door is

Mechanical engineer here. Basically trade and engineers with STEM degrees are the only ways you will make any money from a school program these days. Paid off my debt from college in 11 months. Life is comfy af

>>131104535
Why are you a drywaller? That is the shortest trade there is. I thought only beaners did drywall. Be an electrician. Or a welder. Or a sprinkler tech. They all make about six figures once the year is all said and done.

>>131100870
>Is it a good alternative to a Liberal Arts degree?
No. Since when is getting a job and being productive an alternative to being a useless shitstain faggot who's locked into slave-debt for the rest of your life?

>>131104517

That's great and all, I mean, my brother is a tradesman with his own outfit and has a family etc... I don't want to work 60 hours a week busting my ass off though, so I'm a web dev.

I realize if society collapses I'm fucked, but for now I'm comfy and make a killing doing barely anything. I did concrete and tile/wood flooring in the past so I respect tradesman a lot. They are typically cool dudes with a good sense of humor and a red pilled political outlook. I feel kinda bad since my dad and brother were tradesman.. I'm basically an artfag who opted out of it though.

Godspeed and good luck to all you tradies. We need more of you.

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>>131100870
Look op. I started sub contractoon at 18yo. At 26 i started a small concrete construction company and started contracting commercial flat roofing job's.

I just bought my 2nd house. 400k. Put 250k down on fenton lake in michigan.

All it takes hard work ethic and decent math skills. I did get my construction eng certificates at kalamazoo valley community college. i would at least learn blue print reading, and an up to date code book.

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>>131104492
i do diagnostic work on things other shops gave up on, and work on various odd and exotic motors

i bet nobody here can name this engine
>>131104263
i wouldn't doubt it

>>131104920
T. Someone that has never made six figures in a year as a tradesman.

>>131104780

You're fucking retarded if you think "robots" are about to be remodeling houses and fixing your toilet. For fuck sake you must be 14 years old to be this dense.

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>>131102445
40 year old welder here
Ever notice there aren't any old welders?
Ever notice the oldest welders don't bend at the knee?
Welding is deeply poisonous in more than just the fumes.
A word to the wise, be a real dick about health & safety every day. Also, move around a bit & try to get a bit of fabrication/plating in.
Practically all platers can weld, so the dedicated weld lads are the first out of the door at the first sign of a squeeze in the order book

In 2009 My pay went from £40k to about £15k, courtesy of Poland doing it for free. Things are improving with brexit though.
Volatile industry m8

>>131104873
I just kinda fell into it. Started off working really hard and made a fortune, then I realized the only real perk of being a contractor is that you're not a wage slave, so I started working really hard and fast and got used to working like 3 hours a day for my living. The pay took a bit of a hike down in the past couple years where I live because of poos moving in and being really cheap, but it's still pretty decent, and the potential is there for you to make 6 figures if you're good and you wanna put in 8 hours a day 5 days a week, but that aint my cup of tea

>>131101034
what trade? what's the best trade? how much is trade school?

>>131105063
I am a fire alarm tech. No robot is drilling concrete and running pipe and building circuits and programming panels and getting on ladders and lifts. The amount of robots needed for different things would be ridiculous. I always hear this and know for certain whoever said it has never been to a job site.

>>131100870
Learn to do something people need and you will be safe and stable for life. Learn to complain that people should give you free shit and you will be unhappy and poor for life.

>>131101932
tell me about electricians

>>131105139

I feel like for every person that did great on a career path, another person has gotten fucked over by circumstance.

>>131104873
Also probably worth mentioning, but you pick up ceiling repair jobs once in a while, where they want you to retexture their kitchen ceiling or w/e. You spend an hour there for 2 days and they pay you like $1000. Ceiling repairs are a glorious ripoff

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>>131104007
Fucking gorgeous, excluding the apex seals of course.

>>131100870
A fucking plumber is getting $250 PER HOUR in Minnesota. Let that sink in.

>>131105869
>sink in
>sink

Lel

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I spent 2 years in trade school then 2 years looking for work with no luck now I'm going to university for a CS degree fuck this trades meme

I have like 5 years experience as a labourer, including on industrial sites like oil refineries, have a bunch of safety tickets, I thought that might count for something but nope you basically need connections to get in or hope the economy is really strong at the moment, right now I know journeymen out of work so what hope do I have?

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>>131105869

>>131100870
The main benefit is being able to go and work for yourself. It makes it worth while.

>>131105964
Where you livin? With all that schooling, experience, and tickets it kinda sounds like you've shaped yourself to go work out in fort st john. All that stuff doesn't mean shit in the normal cities lol

>>131106012
LMAO!!! That was a good one!!

>>131100870
I'm a stagehand, and make 140-150k/year with no debt. I also work 75 hours a week and have a banged up body. The trades have their good points and bad points.

>>131105063
>>131105364
see you in 5 years boys

you're in a for a rude awakening

>>131100870
Absolutely. Skilled tradesmen are a necessity and in short supply. College has been memed into overimportance by (((them))) because it costs more.

>>131105364

Not only have they never been to a job site they've never worked a day in their lives. Maybe in 250 years we will have fully articulated androids doing some hole digging, maybe.

>>131100870

It comes down to the type of people you like working around.

I don't like bullshit PC stuff, and I don't watch sports - so working in the social sciences or trades, and possibly even medicine is not for me. So no SJW roasties who want to talk about the latest social outrage or emergig virtues or tradies with rocks in their head that want to talk about sports. Don't get me wrong, I can get along with both of these types of people, but from experience I can't work with them. I've always felt weird about workplaces get togethers and pep talks - this is why.

That leaves STE from stem. I'm a nerd, not a reddit comicon attending "nerd XD", and I like being around nerds and other socially awkward people. I went into computer science and never looked back (the first couple of years of engineering is usually filled with jocks anyway). All we talk about is videogames, memes, filthy jokes and the latest computer shit.

Some people say go where the money is, others say go where your people are.

For instance, If you love music become a musician or work at a rock venue or a music instrument store.

I've had 17 different jobs in my life and it's taken me awhile to figure this out.

my 0.02

>>131101191

Holy fuck this.

>>131105028
4cyl engine and carbon fibre body, probably not many cars like that
Probably some form of off road rally or road rally car

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trades men are look down on for their entire lives unless they are good enough to actually own their business

>>131106157
Can't sell that point enough to people, and the words "work for youself" don't do it justice... Feel like fucking off after working for an hour? Do it. Feel like maybe showing up to work one day and maybe not? Do it. Vacation? Book it for tomorrow. You can balance your life exactly how you want, no schedules

>>131106237
Edmonton, been applying all over western canada and had an interview in Prince George once but didn't get the job

How is the economy there? I hear things are starting to pick up a bit around grande prairie and fox creek, unfortunately it seems like companies only hire journeymen or sometimes 3/rd/4th year apprentices, and anything else is done via connections

>>131105028
looks like some sort of diesel. can't think of any cars with a diesel and carbon fiber panels.

>>131100870
Trades schools also cucked and NERFd for the sake of marxism. (swedn)
its full of women teachers who are just terrible. education must be made possible through online methods wich are capitalist and dont force debt.

youtube based liberal arts where you are merited by your success on getting followers and listeners. and the teachers are there as leadership and can see what the student needs to learn.

> # Renissance II: Haters gon' hate

>>131101932
Yes, even here across the pond. Great money here because every SJW idiot wants a gender studies degree.

>>131105964
>CS degree fuck this trades meme
- climb into automation
- immerse yourself in one of the many disciplines within the sector - downstream is all brain, upstream all back
- you cam make 6-figures during peaks, but you have to live a lifestyle like you are now, to lessen the impact of low periods - it's a roller coaster
- invest in land. start building a 2nd life there
- get what you can, get out of it, and live close to the land both literally and figuratively

>>131100870
It's nothing but a meme. What do you think all those jobless people with gender studies degree are going to do once the college bubble pops?

>>131106012
let that sink in dammit! you anti-porcelain degenerate

>>131106662
>climb into automation

This is my plan, I went to trade school for instrumentation and controls so hopefully it will give me a leg up

>>131106586
Hard to say lol i've never been, but I've worked with guys that pretty much live out there and they say if you bother to get your certs you can run crews out there and make a killing. Anyways I'm living on vancouver island and residential is booming like crazy over here, not too sure about commercial

too many running joins

>>131101191
this pretty much, every single person i work with is a white male and i hear the word nigger at least ten times a day

>>131103089
> Plumbing actually sounds fun.
Might sound... but the work itself is not fun AT ALL.

t. ex plumber

>>131106778

So you think they are going to learn trades?

Pffft

>>131106330
>see you in 5 years boys
you're in a for a rude awakening

When I was a kid they said we'd be driving around in flying cars by now. A bunch of neet faggots have cooked up this technological pipe dream to justify their aspirations for communism 2.0 (aka: universal basic income).

It's not gonna happen. Clean your room, and get a fucking job.

>>131100870
>Is it a good alternative to a Liberal Arts degree?
Yes? Why is a liberal arts degree even an option in your mind unless you are an American who just plans to go to OCS right out of the army?

Is it an alternative to an actual degree? No, however it is still an okay option. Income is less than you will get than with pretty much any practical degree but still better than what you get just being a high school graduate.

>>131100870
>get to say nigger at work
>dont start your life in massive debt
>have actual skills that are useful
>not tied down to a specific region or city
>actually contribute something to society

>>131100870
it's a meme

get enlightened and do liberal arts

>>131106366

>Some people say go where the money is, others say do what you love, I say go where your people are.

FTFM

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>>131100870
http://mikerowe.com/2017/05/otwappalledbythesweatpledge/

>>131102445
nigger my girlfriend makes 25 an hour after tips as as the cashier at a fast casual place
you're getting jew'd

I went to jobcorps and learned how to be an electrician.
I have yet to get a job in that field

>>131102180
Where do you live and how's the work? How hard is it to get into? I'm a low level mechanic and not sure if I want to go all out for this career

>>131106818
>I went to trade school for instrumentation and controls so hopefully it will give me a leg up
- Know a CAD program better than most
- know how to program PLC;s and configure DCS
- be so wise/informed/cutting edge, that you are the person who new engineers come to when the are new hires - you get the idea. b dam good at what you do...maybe even the best
- constantly be on the lookout for ideas that you can patent
- develop a business plan or two

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>>131105513
Yeah, I scored a full house of dumbfuckery.
Have kid with succubus then get cucked
Replace with materialist gf / violent drunk
Buy house at top of market
Replace with different materialist gf / angry drunk
Work in sector easily replaced with greedy slavs with shallow pockets
Borrow from the jew in good faith.
Repossesion.exe
Turn to Taoism to alleviate nervous conditions.

Wake up several years later full NatSoc with nothing to lose.
Or is that nothing to gain? Time will tell lads.

>>131100870
Wtf is even "liberal arts"? What field are they going to hire you with such a degree?

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>>131100870
Faggot going to college next year, heavily considering dropping out and doing trade instead
>what's the best trade?
>what's work like for a tradesman? (Avg. hours a day )
>whatsannual pay like?
I need answers lads

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>be american
>unemployment 4.0%
>all you need to do to get a trades job is apply and have a drivers licence
>even first year apprentices are making $25/hr and companies will fight over them
>$60/hr journeyman rate
>massive labour shortage

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>>131108239
>SAD!

>>131107922
Well for the most part it's just gonna be like a job, getting paid a wage and working full time. If you wanna make money off a trade you'll have to start your own business. So with that in mind a deciding factor for which trade would be if you wanna run a crew or work by yourself.

You make as much money as you want though. If you do good work and you work 8ish hour days then i'd say you realistically have the potential to make a solid 100-300k a year in almost any trade

>>131107922
>best trade
Depends on you m8. Dry wallers dont have to crawl around under houses like plumbers do, but crawling under houses isnt as bad as you think.
New building construction is mostly straight forward working off plans, but you are at the mercy of the weather when you are building a wooden frame. Figure out what you want to get out of a trade besides money.
I like my job because i work with small business, meet new people every day, and get to drive all around my city.

>>131108405
I remember talking it over with my parents before, they said if I wanted to start my own business like that I'd need a degree of sorts to do so, is that true in any way?

>>131108494
What's your job, plumbing?

Trades are fantastic and absolutely necessary positions in any society. Whoever started the horrendous meme that trades/blue collar jobs are bad or undesirable deserves to drawn and quartered.

>>131105028
i name this engine pete

>>131101191
3 fucking seconds anon.

>>131108694
Nah im just a telephone tech, so not really a trade. But i work with proper tradies and do some of their jobs.

>electricians
Cancerous people who dont know how to cable for telephony

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>>131106448
>>131108745
>>131106595


>2017 alfa romeo 4c

I'm currently working as an HVAC helper in a quasi-apprenticeship on my summers off from university and it can be pretty tough work. If you don't mind manual labor and don't particularily like the idea of being confined to a cubicle for your work then I'd say go for it. You can make damn good money working a trade: my boss makes six figures and hes not the brightest dude around. I myself definitely have learned a bunch in just knowing how to work with my hands. Where I used to look down on people who did this kind of stuff as being too stupid for other things I now have an enduring respect: it can be fucking hard to figure out how you're going to install equipment within the confines of some rando's house, and you have to be able to think critically on the spot.

I'm most likely not going to continue working it but it 100% can be lucrative if you are driven. Just know there are gonna be some days that you want to kill yourself. Either because of fucktard customers or having to come in and painstakingly fix all of some other jackass's mistakes.

>>131108239
>>all you need to do to get a trades job is apply and have a drivers licence
>>massive labour shortage

Take one sick day, fired.
Try to unlock two week vacations per year by staying at the company 10 years, after 9.8 years they fire you to avoid that cost.
Illegal mexican offers do your job for less, get fired.
Pooinloo offers to do your job for less, gets H1B visa, you're fired.
You're fed up with this and want a better deal, so you unionize. Get fired and blacklisted by all future employers.

Live on the streets. Get robbed by a dindu. Shoot him with your god given freedom. Too poor to afford a real lawyer, get public defender, thrown in jail for life.

The trick is being a multimillionaire when you get there. Then it's all smooth sailing.

>>131108982
>Cancerous people who dont know how to cable for telephony
I've nothing but respect after watching that report on Aussie news about the true blue sparky who sponsors Daily Stormer, then again, my great grandfather was an electrician and he was supposedly a lazy cunt who'd go to his Mom's house to sleep instead of work and then beat his kids
>that said
What do you do in your job, what are the requirements for it?

>>131107922
All are worth it, find your niche and it'll pay. Trades are a bachelors wet dream desu if you're not pursuing STEM or non-meme business degree. Work-life balance varies extremely by location and you've got the benefit of being able to live wherever you want and make good money. World is your oyster as a single tradesman. Trades get memed down a lot because they all require some kind of hard work, which is what my generation seems to be terrified of. I'm deciding between being a CPA or going into locksmithing desu, seems fucking cool

>>131109212
>Illegal mexican offers do your job for less, get fired.
>Pooinloo offers to do your job for less, gets H1B visa, you're fired.
You're fed up with this and want a better deal, so you unionize. Get fired and blacklisted by all future employers.

>Live on the streets. Get robbed by a dindu. Shoot him with your god given freedom. Too poor to afford a real lawyer, get public defender, thrown in jail for life.

>The trick is being a multimillionaire when you get there. Then it's all smooth sailing.
Demonstrably false

>>131100870
Electrician in Ontario here, it's pretty good, I have zero College Dept since the province pays for it all, get $38 an hour non Union and work is relatively easy depending on the job.

I'd highly recommend trade school. You're literally retarded to go to Art school for anything.

>>131100870
Given that automation of white collar jobs is actually starting to become a thing, this is where the future of human employment is headed.

>>131109508

You forgot to enter an argument buddy.

Keep typing, you'll figure it out.

>>131109789
What's wrong with trade unions? Just curious
>>131109820
1. Trade Jobs are heavily dominated by whites in the US, Mexican/illegals do farm work, landscape, and some construction/contracting
2. Poo in Lois are brought in for "coding" but roulghly 80% of them don't even know how to code so are really just brought into to do landscaping and janitorial work and are contained in Silicon Valley in this case
3.i have no clue where you got this image of poverty in America
4. You have to be a millionaire? Quite literally every person I know is not a millionaire and is fine

>>131100870
It's ok yeah, ain't nothing wrong with it, and if we ever hope to be living by ourselves, we need whites who can do those things, they will be heavily relied on in any society we hope to accomplish. If nothing else you should be finding and vetting people for a commune with mutually beneficial skills and trades. As a very long term goal.
Really we don't stand a chance at justifying for homogeneity if we can't prove to the world we can sustain ourselves independently.

>>131109320
No real requirements, just have to be computer minded because there is a bunch of minor programming
Its mostly installing phone systems and doing related maintenance, but that includes working on phone lines and data cabling

My problem with electricians is that they often confuse "we need a computer and phone point at every desk" to mean "lets cheap out and run one daisy chained cable for all the phones" or "lets cheap out and just terminated the phone cable on an rj11 outlet instead of an rj45 outlet"

>>131110643
>lets cheap out
That just sounds really stupid on THEIR part, if I were in their position I would want to create as much work, and subsequently as much pay, as possible

>>131105357
Welding is decent, my brothers in it, honestly whatever trade calls you more.
But electrician and welding and shit for buildings is good choice economically.
If I don't see a path forward within a year to switch to IT successfully, I'm getting a student loan for electrician.

>>131105422
What do you want to know? I haven't done the course or anything yet but I worked around engineers and electricians a lot

>>131111459
Not him, but what can you tell me about electricians? What's their average work day like, and how much do they make?

>>131100870
I will tell you there is a HUGE shortage of young hard working men in my field= Electrician

>>131108629
Nope. Just a business license from the city

>>131100870
>What does /pol/ think of tradesmen and trades school?
Skilled tradesman (steamfitter). Best job ever. I see interesting places and get paid more than my peers by a longshot. My apprenticeship paid me to learn a skill.

As a sales professional I've had the pleasure to work with, and evaluate, nearly all the trades. I know their margins, advantages and difficulties, etc. intimately.

>Ultimate trade
Sales. So long as products exist, you will always have a means to make shit tons of money. All you have to do is not be an autist.

>God Tier
Mold remediation/water damage/fire damage restoration. NEVER out of work. Always paid by insurance companies - no bounced checks. great money

>High Tier
HVAC. No off season. A change out can net you 1-2 grand. Service calls and repair are good money too.

Mid-Tier
Home Automation/AV installation. Fantastic money on high end clients. Main problem is there aren't enough rich people installing 70 thousand dollar systems all the time.

Roofing. A reroof can be done rather quickly, and net you thousands of dollars. Main problem is feast or famine depending on weather.

>Low Tier
Carpentry. Projects take too long to do enough of them in succession to reach a high income. Skilled help is in very short supply.

Painting. Fuck that shit. You'd better speak Spanish fluently.

Landscaping. Too seasonal.

Concrete/Masonry. Too seasonal.

>Awful Tier
Plumbing. There is plenty of potential to make a lot of money... but you will always be miserable. I have never met a plumber with a pleasant disposition, ever. Only become a plumber if you hate yourself.

>>131100870
As a tradesman it is much easier to find well paying work.

>>131111688
If I were a few years younger I'd take up being a sparkie. Industrial and marine installations look like fun

>>131111784
Sales is like the ultimate soulless endeavor. You're a literal shill who goes around trying to manipulate people out of their shekels. Literal jew tier. Only do this if you have no soul.

>>131103858
You also tend to have a wage ceiling if you don't work for yourself.

t. Industrial Electrician

Giving blowjobs at the bus station until you get your self respect back is preferable to today's liberal arts degree.

>>131106317
I think trades work long hours because of the shortage of workers there but if everybody went into that field, I doubt you'd work the same hours.

>>131103574
Pay no attention to this bullshit stereotyping...you can still be respectful AND respected in a honest trade.

>>131111582
23$ per hour is average I think at least, and if you're really good and dedicated you can make big money at the right companies in the city or a pipeline/energy project. You can work independent if you want anytime. But you gotta be ready to be called in on a moments notice to do something trivial that is emergency tier for turdnuggets.
It's like the others say you spend a lot of time putting cables through walls and shit and probably working alongside engineers sometimes and other crews if you're on a dedicated site.
They don't get worked too hard you get standard shift types on steady sites and probably wild sporadic long weeks with some clients.
Idk maybe 65000$+ as an electrician? Going up with experience and navigation of the job market.

>>131110504
Seconded on this. My old man was a welder and his friend he grew up with runs his own HVAC business and makes hefty without exerting himself. If you're too afraid to work for yourself or start a business, then yes, expect to be st the mercy of the one who did. But the industries aren't near as close as other anon's scenarios are, those are more applicable to low end labor and tech jobs

>>131111582
Its chill work most of the time, almost every electrician I've met is always relaxed as fuck.

>>131111998
Yeah the hours can long but you make good bank. I'm at work currently on a Saturday servicing a sheet scanner that's been playing up. Now I'm just staring at the diagnostic screen making sure my repairs are solid before I go home. All on $90 an hour double time.

I almost deify tradesman and aspire to be one as a NEET. They are an integral part of any nation's citizenry and their skills will always be in demand. If you believe the whole robots took err jerbs rhetoric, then you'll be hard pressed to find a robot that can execute the fine and gross motor movements able to install piping in a home or fix wiring in a business within the next fifty years.

It's also the nexus of specialized knowledge and hands on activity that I'd love to do.

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>>131100870
If you suck at math and you don't have the gift of gab, skip college and learn a trade. That's your most realistic shot at owning a home.

>>131101034
*tradesperson

>>131101034
i does got a job working for a temp company but quit a week after finding better work at a mom and pop deal for hvac. some of the people i worked with looked half dead and twice as old as me but were still doing the same work

>>131112623
it does, *

>>131112315
Honestly the best bunch of guys to work with. Electricians are always 100% bros to work with, Fitters can be a bit of a mixed bag.

>>131104517
What do you do?

>>131112822
Electrician is high reward if you're smart, the "skill cap is high" so most of them are a little autistic anyways.

>>131106982

This.
Same as the idiots saying programming will be automated too.

No it won't, not in the next 100 years at least.
I work every day writing boring business logic, and the biggest hurdle in my job is getting the idiots at the other end of a web service call to return you correct data and not a bunch of nonsense.
No robot can fix that.

I interview A&P mechanics for $100k+ jobs. If you're on theball, I'll hire you. Two year degree.

>>131113231
how long did you study and how much do you make? ever been a NEET?

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How did people ITT find an apprenticeship so easily?

Trades build White nations. They work in symbiosis with high iq White specializations; but relies on the other

>>131115665
edit: "...but *one* relies on the other"

>>131103626

When I graduated with a history major from a state land grant university my BA was awarded by the college of liberal arts. The liberal arts were actually a useful field before the entire thing got subverted by communists and 30% off the adult population didn't have a degree. A good liberal arts education teaches you a variety of analytical frameworks with which to evaluate society. That said i don't use my degree and I'd like to eventually learn how to do something useful.

>>131100870
>me
>working as a security guard for a building in downtown Los Angeles since 2005 at age 20 for $32k a year
>same place now
>$66k a year
>never went to college
>never paid rent (living with Aunt & Cousin in house they inherited)
>low cost of living and expenses
(You) seek a security job (don't if you're a habitual Cannabis smoker).

>>131105422
Electricians are generally the biggest assholes on any construction site. Im speaking from personal experience btw

t. Ironworker apprentice

>>131100870
What do you think about finance? Is it a meme?

>>131120573
Nah, drywall/painters

They're all retarded and don't give a fuck about trade damage.

HVAC guys don't care about trade damage either but at least they aren't mouth breathers.

Then again, I'm a cable/low volt guy so iget along worth electricians really well.

>>131100870
Anything is a good alternative to a liberal arts degree.

>>131103364
isnt underwater welding pretty dangerous though?

>>131102732
>FREE

>looking into becoming a welder
>nation has a shortage in welders
>wages are surprisingly low
>have to purchase your own equipment
>USA equivelant pays up to 4 times more
what the fuck

>>131101932
Depending on where one lives pools and hot tubs are a good business to get into, if you know how to do it plumbing will make you a decent sum.
If your not good or can't stand school might as well jump into the experience of blue collar. As opposed to spending money to "learn" it.

T. 5 years experience

>>131112411
what if im decent at math but dont enjoy doing it much?

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>>131102732
heh saved a smuggie just for this

le there goes 80% of your income face xddd

>>131102042
Agreed man.
I went to college for 1 year and bailed.
5 years later working the family business has been the best decision I've made.
The amount of people you meet doing good reputable work has paved the way more than a degree has.

>went to lineschool
>put picture from lineschool on tinder, matches exploded
>have shit references, only worked seasonal jobs in my shitty resort town
>after a month, sign up for a tree trimmer aprenticship
>get jumped ahead a step of the apprenticeship for going to lineschool
>work 4 10s
>just finished my first week, made $940
>little do they know, im jumping ship to be a lineman asap
trades rule bro

>>131124278
what is a lineschool?

Edfag here. Don't aim for "trades" or "degrees". Aim for fucking JOBS, and figure out what you need to do that job.

>>131124411
school for working on powerlines. one of the highest paying trades

>>131104285
>lift engineering
>lift with your legs not you back
how is that a trade?

>>131100870
Depends. Do you want to have money, or do you want to start your adult life in massive debt and virtually unemployable?

>>131103192
Honestly I got a degree in accounting, and it is pretty underrated imo. A lot of pay, and there are opportunities to make 100k+ if you dedicate yourself

>>131106564
you're a larping faggot. kys.
>owning your own business means you can fuck off and not work

>>131107922
>whatsannual pay like?
Look up bls.gov, it gives objective median incomes for numerous careers.

>>131107171
fuck this gay kike bullshit.
>all people are created equally
fucking gassed.

>>131112156
Electricians average around $50 an hour, friend.

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>>131104757
Bongs are kebab now.

Im a TIG welder and love it.

>>131106330
Retard. A robot will never replace a dude with a few tools for anything but the most menial assembly work. For no other reason than cost. That's how everything everywhere works.

>>131102732
The irony of posting this comment with that flag is not lost on me.

>>131124278

Linework is a promising and masculine trade to go into. The esprit de corps is only matched by military, police, and fireman. I kinda miss it, I was just starting to climb when I got tired of being passed up for apprenticeship for someones less experienced brother/cousin/buddy. Had another gig in the ropes before I lost my CDL due to a DWI.

Its only been 2 years since I left the trade and I hated a lot of things about it while I did it. (creosote is the big one) But looking back I get nostalgic and I know it made me a stronger person.

I noticed while I did it I was one of the youngest people there at 25-27. Rarely did I find someone younger than me entering the trade so chanced are the demand will skyrocket in a few years.

>>131100870
I would go to tradeschool in a heartbeat over an extremely pointless liberal arts degree. I know this post is bait, but its astonishing how so many people get those degrees. I got a degree in biology and its a shit degree if you arent going to higher studies but still better than a liberal arts degree.

>>131124638

You cant fail to mention its one of the most difficult and dangerous professions out there.

>>131124936
Not larping. I do this, and us contractors are notorious for it. They expect you to come and you just don't some time, nothing they're gonna do about it but wait for you to come

>>131124649

An "elevator" is called a "lift" in most parts of the old empire.

>>131125111
>>131112156

Yes average $50 an hour plus the $150 flat fee to show up at your house. Ive got a ton of electrical work to be done here and I really dont want to have to pay out the ass for it.

>>131125392
That builds character.

>>131112411
Isnt good math skills needed for trades?

haah stoopid leaf man

>>131125472
My father in law is a good man and he only ever charged $40 an hour and only for time worked. He's also in terrible financial shape because he is such a good man.

>>131125592
Depends on the trade... Electricians will need better math skills than a carpenter. A lot of the math is pretty intuitive.

>>131105869
My unc is a plumber here and he makes 11k a month busting his ass off. Plus he got like 6 kids and they are all gonna be red pilled Russians thanks to yours truly. Mn is a great place to live and is going to be a major battle ground in the coming civil war. Absolute hoards of Somalis here in the slums of Minneapolis

get trained/educated to do the job you WANT to do. people who choose a career strictly on salary are retards.

>>131125633
yeah thats the problem with being too nice and too honest. To be a good business man you gotta make a good profit, and sometimes that entails charging someone a higher price. Its their decision to buy it in the end though so that helps the conscience. I was a carpet salesman for 5 years and i always felt shitty selling someone some 10 year old shit carpet for $3 a sqft.

>>131101191
can confirm. hate programming because of this faggotry.

>>131100870
Yes. Learning a skill is the fundamental to being successful. If you have a skill you can do reasonably well no matter where you are a job will exist for you. Learn the craft, make some money, and then do college if you'd like to further your education in pursuit of business ownership. I swear if colleges didn't accept people until two years after high school it would be an entirely different experience. Retard liberal arts major here, don't make my mistake. Learn a skill, also you may want to consider welding as it's always in demand and pays well.

>>131125392
do you want to be a boy the rest of your life? or do you want to be a man?

>>131125633
Although if you are getting more business as an electrician undercutting your competition that can work too, but you have to work harder obviously. In the real world profit is not a dirty word if you want to be rich. Its not right to completely fuck someone over, but you have to make a living too. When my worst customers would complain about the price of a product I was selling I would sometimes say "well I have to make a living too" and it they would be like "oh oh oh of course" and usually buy.
My dad is a cutthroat businessman, and if people were giving him shit about the price he would say "did you see a sign outside that says charity?" Sometimes they would get pissed off at that one.

>>131125517
>>131126087

clearly you didn't read my previous post

>>131101191
>he doesn't fuck the roasties
This MILF cheats on her husband with me every day lol.

>>131125313
that's exactly it. even the school made me feel like a man. its nearly cured me of social anxiety, my forearms are huge, i actually have self worth, its great

I think at this point it's also worth mentioning that if you work in a trade you feel like a man amongst boys when you're around office or service workers

>>131109820
there is no argument, all your points are wrong. Back to the cuckshed.

>>131100870
You can get a degree or get a job anon. Have 2 faggot cousins: one went to Mac and the other to trade school. The "idiot" that did the trade school is saving cash and owning all his shit while the other had to move back home.

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>DAD WON'T LET ME JOIN A FUCKING TRADE SCHOOL BECAUSE IT'S "FOR RETARDS"

>>131104873
>Be an electrician. Or a welder. Or a sprinkler tech. They all make about six figures once the year is all said and done.

Sprinkler fitter? Hard, heavy work.

Welder? CAN be good money in it, but has to be high quality welding IE X-ray pressure piping/pressure vessels. Downside--a lot of ugly position welding and welds in tight places, fumes etc.

Electrical--My experience--electricians are a bunch of crybabies. If you aren't-- become one.

Pipefitter/steamfitter-- reasonably good trade

Boilermaker-- Yuch! A lot of "mask" work in tanks/ vessels etc. Good pay. These guys seem to be bull-headed as hell though--in my experience--scrappers, argumentative, a lot of attitude.

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>>131100870
I make $31 an hour an HVAC tech. I didn't pay shit for trade school (GI Bill) and I'm happy with it.

>>131127237
Statistically average trade worker IQ is 85. He's not wrong but with a business orientated mind and patience it can pay off.

How meme tier is "flipping houses"? Can it be done on a $50,000 family loan and only book knowledge?

I'm in school to teach but a recent Jordan Peterson binge on every commute is leading me to think the reason I've been so miserable is that I've been in female dominated professions for too long. I've been longing to use my hands and be involved in creating something I can be proud of. Men are hands-on creatures from toddlers and my experience in early childcare is making this obvious on a new level. How can I find fulfillment in a trade?

My dad has a bunch of tools, Ive been thinking of learning carpentry, anyone have some info?

>>131105357
become a pipeline welder they make over 100k a year

>>131112580
*rollseyes

>>131122965
yeah. most die before 30. my cousin is in his late 20's and already has nerve damage and can't do it anymore, don't talk to him much anymore though so not sure what happened

>>131100870
well I'm 32 and making ~$150,000 a year as a machinist, took trade school in a kind of unrelated field and additional continuing education in also kind of unrelated fields. Hard to say how much it has helped in my career
Also, would say is it a good alternative to a a liberal arts degree? that's the wrong question. It is absolutely better than a liberal arts degree. a liberal arts degree is completely fucking useless. is it better than a BS/Bachelor of Science degree like Mech engineering or even N aaociates a degree in Manufacturing Engineering Technology? absolutely not.
Liberal arts degrees are completely fucking useless for the most part. BS is and even AS are vastly superior in terms of the job and earnings potential for the majority of graduates. Everybody is not the same do whatever is best for you, but how many liberal arts majors do you know that make more than me.

>>131120573
we aren't assholes at all, we are just much more intelligent than the other trades, and we know it but more importantly, all the other trades know it. especially apprentice iron mongers.

>>131128378
What the fuck? Clean out your van.

ok that had a bit of mangled english, I'm half a liter deep in that vodka in the last 4 hours, but if you can't figure out what I was saying, you're retarded and should probably just shoot for dem gibs.
still stands, liberal arts degrees are a useless waste of money. go trade school or skip it and jump straight into a trade. if you're determined to go to college/university, go the science route.

>>131100870
no that's a meme. get a STEM degree. the best option is a cs math degree. AI is the future

>>131111784
Spoken like a true pussie.. Plumbing is one of the highest paid trades because people like you are afraid of it.

Unless you do service calls you never deal with poop so... if you dont like poop don't do service calls. That being said If you want to make 200 bucks an hour do service calls.

For fucks sakes people nurses deal with more shit than plumbers.

Not worth it. I only make $36 an hour and full union bennies for fixing diesel trucks. Also the work is tiring dirty and mind numbing and dangerous. Also have to work overtime

>>131103364
>>go into welding
>>enjoy scuba diving
>>spend a couple hrs getting certified for scuba
>>work in tropical cruise-ship ports doing bomb-detections for Norwegian cruise lines
>>start out at 127kUS
Fuck obviously the person posting this has no idea of the reality of that trade
I have advanced scuba certs as well as welding certs and considering underwater welding school several of times
No you will not get employed doing it without specific education unless you just have the hookup
Norwegian? They pay the lowest of any cruise line, and they do not employee underwater welders whatsoever
Underwater welders will eventually make good money, but starting out after school you're doing to eat shit making $15-20 an hour for a couple of years as a tender, by the time you've worked 10-15 years or reached the age of 35, you are unemployable as a commercial diver of any sort, and your only option other than owning your own busines and employing other divers is working as a divemaster or teaching it

>>131100870
>Is it a good alternative to a Liberal Arts degree?
No shit idiot, most things are. Why is it always one extreme or the other with you autists?

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>>131100870
>2017
>Not creating an online business for maximum freedom
>Still wanting to be a plumber or some shit like its 1972

>>131101932
>plumbing
>easy money

Soft handed euro detected

>>131131942
It's about having a purpose, clean your room and sort yourself out.

The best part about being a tradesman is you can take your skill with you regardless of location. You'll earn higher wages and do something productive for society unlike a liberal arts graduate.

>>131131942

>thinks his toilet will magically unfuck itself when he ruptures the pipes with his fat cunt ass

>>131100870
Get a trade my boy. You cannot go wrong with a trade. You can be fully qualified in as little as 2 years, you get paid fairly well and some of the cleaner trades are pretty easy work.

Also a huge bonus for me is the fact that after you build up some contacts in the industry, you get yourself a van and some tools and you go self employed, and you be your own boss, work your own hours. I would recommend a trade over pretty much any profession to be honest, unless you have a good idea to work for yourself doing something else there is no easier way into self employment and making good money.

>>131101134
>>131104056
IMPRACTICAL
WEAK

>>131132164
Actually that did happen once. My toilet got clogged and i just left it and later i went to pee and it was just sorted itself. Saved some money not getting a 65 IQ plunger boy out to my place

Not fat tho

Can be good money if you know how to be a greedy prick. All these assclowns get paid hourly like retarded fucks because they work for companies. Go into flooring and hire a buncha Mexican sub contractors and make true god tier money. You don't need any of the certifications of HVAC or Plumbing you just gotta know what the fuck you are doing. I have 5 spics that work for me and I've already made 45k off them this summer alone doing commercial apartment complexes in Chicago. Pay them 10-15 bucks an hour under the table and get all the money. God I love this country.

>>131131500
All he said is that plumbers are cranky.

Your response proves it

>>131109196
Don't you have to go to some gay school for HVAC? I wouldn't mind it because I'm such good shape, and you can get into sales when it gets too tedious and big money in that. If you're actually smart compared to the average blue collar guy you can shine easier than you can in the corporate world.

>>131129799
Many trades fall under the umbrella of carpentry so you'll have to be more specific. What do you want to know?

>want to get into a trade
>terrible at math but good at manual labor

Which trade should I get into?

>>131125099
>finds the one liberal phrase in the document.
>chucks a sad about it.

I'm guessing your mummy was the one who complained.

>>131132824
>I have 5 spics that work for me and I've already made 45k off them this summer alone doing commercial apartment complexes in Chicago. Pay them 10-15 bucks an hour under the table and get all the money. God I love this country.
If you really loved this country you would be paying taxes on your employees and hiring employees that pay taxes. between your cheating the system, cheating your fellow americans, and paying the low corporate taxes america offers, you are fucking over your fellow americans.
i understand, if you hired whites, you would deal with the same problems or possibly even more. you would have to pay more or end up with shit workers, especially somewhere like shitcago. your workers would likely make less money, even if you spent another 50% on employing them, between your share and their share.
money is not the root of all evil, love of money is the root of all evil.
you sound a whole lot like a kike

Thinking of getting my A&P, is it a good idea?

>>131104780
Robots are going to eliminate accountants, low level lawyers, and a huge variety of office jobs before they eliminate tradesmen

>>131126644
you dont need a job with roasties to fuck roasties

>>131133383
>Thinking of getting my A&P, is it a good idea?
they do ok.
better yet, go to school for some kind of industrial maintenance, or manufacturing engineering. those guys have the real cake jobs, make more with a 2 year degree. if you can learn and get licensed to do electrical and learn to work with and program PLC's and VFD's (really simple) you will make a killing.
It's already a high paying, easy work field, and will only get better as more fucktards are replaced with robots. Eventually more people will try to go into that field, but the sooner you get into it, the better.
The ones that make the most are dual purpose maintenance type guys that do things like maintenance machinist

Another really good thing to go into it NDT, Non Destructive Testing and Certified Weld Inspectors. People who do things like x-ray and ultrasonic testing. can work for a corp or as a contractor and make a killing, little education, not that expensive, making the big bucks within a couple of years on the job

>>131132824

Traitorous scumbag.

>>131133383
>maintenance
oh yeah or look into Process Operation or Instrumentation & Electrical, those are both high paying fields with low education requirements, similar to maintenance but a little more specialized

Reminder that no matter how much money out make, if you work in a trade you will always be Blue Collar. You can make make 300k as an electrician or whatever and still be disrespected by the elites.

Being a higher class is determined by your job NOT how much you makeq. If you want to be upper middle class, go to college, get your fuckin masters and get a comfy office job with benefits where you don't have to work too hard because your skills earn long term money instead of just support our infrastructure.

Also im pro union. Fuck you anti union guys

File: straight outta cuck shed.png (81KB, 193x257px) Image search: [Google]

81KB, 193x257px

>>131101191
lost my sides when i saw him

>>131104031
>I work for my daddy

I bet you're a libertarian.

>>131134113
>Get masters degree
>Get tired of working around women all day and go become electrician.
>Make more money now than I did with masters degree and get to trade sarcastic barbs with other men all day instead of listening to women bitch
>Get looked down on by people with worse education who make half as much as me because lol blue collar

Join a union unless your family owns a company. Every year you waste in non-union employment is a pension credit you are missing out on

>>131131076
ahahahahaha you mean you pussiboi fucks who are all obese as shit and can barely do a goddamn thing considered "manual labor" besides carry around an 8ft ladder and run some goddamn MC cable? Kek, but I agree yall are pretty smart but every electrician ive ever had to deal with is always some snobbish fucking prick who doesn't understand the fact that no one gives a fuck about what his opinion is.

Iron monger? lmfao you mean the guys that actually build the fucking buildings you run all your electrical equipment in? LOL come back when you're above 350ft daily working your fucking ass off.

>>131105028
A gallo 24

Just want to chime in and say: don't be a CNA.

>>131103320

Depends on the location. You won't have to retrain much though. Electricity is electricity. Just remember we say "grounded" not "earthed".

>>131135452

iron monkeys are so insecure

>>131103949
>ex-neet trade school success story reporting
hey how's that 1jz working out solus-bro
talked to you in jap-kike-mushroom-slutto bread
im elec-hvac-benzo-usbvag-broguy if you remember
1jz and an FD you're my kind of people. very glad I dont work on cars for a living anymore but I'm absolutely obsessed still, japs are pretty much the master race when it comes to sports cars. want to buy a GTR this year so bad

>>131104007
http://www.hfmscan.com/en/mercedes_diagnose_kkl_soft.html
this is the website I was trying to share with you before that thread archived out, the tool I was using to get into my obd1 bosch ktronic ecu without purchasing MBZ Starscan
oh the rx7 days, i had a few, never an FD (yet), did have 91 GTUs with lq9/t56 though, on 19x10" +10 TE37, fucker was bad