>communism doesn't work Then how do you explain primitive

>>131041183
it's easy to share when all you have is sticks and meat you hunt together.

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>comparing societies where land produced all value to ones where capital produce the majority of value

>>131041183
It's easy to share, when chief will crack your head open if you don't share.
It's easy to work together, when declining will end with starvation.

>>131041479
Then we simply abolish capitalism.

>>131041534
Primitive communism tribes didn't have chiefs.

>>131041572
and Soviet Union was ran by the workers.

>>131041183
>primitive humans tho
so communism would literally send us back to the stone ages

I agree with your assessment.

>>131041572
Of course not, it was the whole tribe that tore the offending individual apart and ate his liver in perfect harmony and unison, everyone got the same sized piece.

Tell me why all primitive tribes still living the stone age had a chief when they were found by outside civilization?

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>>131041183
Food and such was shared, but the indivuals had personal possesions that they each valued and was buried with, you see this in old burials and their rituals involved.

If these tools were not personal possessions they would of been buried without them and further used for the tribe. Being buried with them shows that they understood the personal value to each individual within the tribe.

>>131041183
The hunters wouldn't have shared the food if they didn't get laid in return

>>131041648
The USSR was not true communism it was state capitalism

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>>131041183

>>131042259
There could be personal possessions when the rest of the tribe didn't require them. If the rest of the tribe required them, the persons would naturally share.

For example, a personal thing could be a rock, a pretty piece of wood or something of sentimental value to the person, that the rest of the tribe didn't require at all for survival.

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We definitely need to send all wannabe-communists on a remote island and make a reality show out of that.

>>131042392
Oh boy, here we go

>>131042891
You can't blame the faults of a system to communism when it wasn't communism.

>>131042392
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=th4Czv1j3F8

It's funny how pro-capitalists talk all the time about "human nature" when capitalism is an incredibly recent development and much more innatural than other economic systems

>>131043008
>I didn't rape her. It wasn't true penis, it only has 2 inches

>>131041183

>everyone shared food

Then why are there signs of tribal warfare in ancient skeletal remains?

>>131041183
Early hunter gatherer societies were almost always formed of related familial units and property probably still existed even then. You know, My Spear, My Knife, My Buffalo skin robe.

corrected your post faggot>>131041183

>tribalism doesn't work

Then how do you explain primitive tribalism?
At the first steps of humans, it's a historical fact that everyone shared food and no surplus of goods was maintained because it was instantly consumed. These hunter gatherers were nomads and had no such thing as a commune where they built shelters or farms.

>>131041183

Thinking communism can be expanded exponentially is the true error of the ideology. Yes sharing equally can work in small isolated groups where it is easy to build trust and personal relationships (families or small farming communities) thinking it can work across 22 million square kilometers of muslims, christians, inuits, asians, europeans, turks and other assorted groupings just because you tell them to. that is the problem here. Communism has not worked because people need to see direct impact of their solidarity and how it affects them personally. People can share, but only for the good of themselves, you have to show them that, not tell them while they wait in line for bread

>>131041183

You do realize most tribes were small and functioned just like a family does right?

In contact with other tribes they would trade.

Eg: 20 clay pots for 10 squirrel pelts.

Which is just proto-capitalism in a nutshell

>>131043008
Dude you should really kys, you should taste all the true communisms ever tried on this earth you braindead retard.

>>131041183
communism does work at the scale of less than about 50 people, and is the basis of family economics.
Thats why natsoc > communism

>>131043538
>did the workers hold all means of production
no
>was everyone free and equal?
no

It wasn't communism

>>131042732
>If the rest of the tribe required them, the persons would naturally share.
Do you know that?

Do you have any evidence individuals just altruistically shared goods in that way?
Or did Og offer a temporary loan of, let's say, Og's finely sharpened spear in exchange for a set proportion of the subsequent hunt? 'cause that sounds like capitalism.
Or did Og offer up his spear out of fear the Grug would simply smash his skull open with a big rock if he didn't? 'cause that sounds like tyranny.

>>131041183
they also raped, killed and ate each other... so hey maybe you are right maybe they had stalin style communism, still dont get why you want that to return but hey to each their own i wont attack you for your masochism. lol

>>131042732
Tools and weapons were found with engravings and markings on them personal to the individual within the tribe. would these tools not be better used by others that are alive in the tribe for the survival and prosperity of it? if not then they dont sound too communistic to me.

If a tribe leader took control of others tools out of threat of violence then again that isnt very communistic. Food may be shared but just because a resource is shared doesn't mean that the tribe follows communism, early man would of been more interested in survival which would mean the best way of survival would be for the group to remain strong.

>>131043642
By your own standards nothing has ever been communist or will ever be in a large scale society, your a Utopian LARP'ing as a lefty.

>>131041183
Communes work.
Communism doesn't.
How fucking hard is that to understand?

Communism will be possible when we have enough robots to offload most the work to them, and the work of the robots would be cheaper than the work of humans. And not just possible, but it will be the only alternative to eradication of all humans bar a handful of powerful families. Far space exploration might've changed it but I think we'll have the cheap robots much sooner.

>>131041183
It was tribalism and the natural order not communism

>>131045141
What do you think billions of low skilled unemployed are going to do then, once robots take their livelihood?

>>131041183
communism breaks down when the people doing the work can't shame you for being a lazy fuck. AKA when you hit population levels of like 20-100k at which point people just become faceless and you don't immediately recognize them. You need a sense of community to make it work else people are just climbing over one another to accumulate as much resources as they can because they figure "other people are probably accumulating more and you're probably only a small fraction".

>>131045306
Enjoy the life at last with universal income.

>>131045306
put their brains into the matrix and do simulated drugs/sex/activities

>>131045461
>fascist

It doesn't surprise me to see that a fascist is out of touch with reality.

>>131041183
it seems you cannot distinguish the difference between 15 and 15,000,000 people.
flag checks out, i guess.

>>131041183
>it's a historical fact that everyone shared food

No it wasnt. You mean to start with the idiotic assumption that primitive people did not compete within and between tribes for scarce resources? kys you dumb faggot and read more books. I bet I have read 30 more than you on the very topic all primary sources and I also studied game theory - it is simply not how evolution or biology works and that is why marxism is a joke

>>131043642
These things are impossible to achieve.
In a primitive society, the chieftain held the means of productions and no, nobody was "free and equal" (lol). So once again, not true communism™.

>>131041572
Sort yourself out

>>131041183
>Then how do you explain primitive communism?
families can share stuff, entire nations cannot.

>>131045688
communism has failed and yea the biggest reason why is it is dependent upon violent revolution, that results in the centralization of power. Don't go eh china cause its shit being propped up by shit trade deals.

Every time violent revolution has occurred it results in to totalitarianism with one exemption. The American revolution was successful because it had a congress before hand, it established its democracy and its governing principles.

Maybe and I stress the maybe communism might work under a constitutional republic so long as the process is peaceful ie through the amendment process. But what is the likelihood you commies actually use peaceful means.

>>131041183
have you ever read about san and chumash people come back to /pol/ once you have

>>131041572
>primitive society with chieftain = not free
>primitive society without chieftain = not equal

>>131041183

That was anarchy you dung. Why are communists retarded?

Reminder that communism is a meme and all communists are NEETs LARPing as revolutionaries.

>>131041183
>Then how do you explain primitive communism?

Marxist fantasy. It never existed.

Sage

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>>131046904

Ceausescu did nothing wrong though. He was a commie Hitler.

>>131041183
There was no production, capital, or workers. Sharing isn't communism.

>>131041183
And how many of these primitive communist societies survived into the modern age?

>>131047056
Ceausescu was a civic nationalist commie cuck.

You wouldnt last a week under his rule. He planned on imposing caloric rations on everyone towards the end of his life

>>131041183
Feminism destroyes everything, even communism.

Feminism was advocating the destruction of society before Marx came along, and he is just another male SJW.

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>>131047198

I actually lived under his rule. It was better then this capitalistic shit.

Those shortages happened only for a few years while ALL of the external debt was paid.

>>131041183
>it's a historical fact
>prehistory

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>>131041183
What you call "primitive communism" is just an extended family, which is what early tribes were.

When I visit my aunt and uncle, they share their food with me. That doesn't make us communists.

>>131047119
>no production
A deer was turned into food

>capital
Someone hunted the deer with a weapon, cut it down with a knife, used a fire to cook it and some primitive fork/knife to eat it

>workers
I guess deer just ran to the tribe transformed into steak and went into peoples' mouths on their own then?

Yes...i remember back when i was a caveman and the NKVD came to confiscate my berries

>>131045688
>when you need to force the workers to work in a worker's paradise

>>131047128
They didn't survive because of human greed which didn't only exist in capitalism but was created by it (since greed didn't exist in primitive societies).

With abolition of capitalism, greed is abolished and a free society which shares everything will be reality AGAIN (it's not utopia, it already existed)

>>131041183
How can primative communism be communism if the workers did not own the means of production?

>>131041183
>Then how do you explain primitive communism

Communism is a reaction to the industrial revolution. The communist manifesto claimed the workers should. Own the means of production.

Don't universalize it and make it into something it is not.

>>131041183
>Then how do you explain primitive communism?
How do you explain the fact that such method of societal organization was abandoned in prehistorical times?

>>131047815
see

>>131047737

>>131047492
this

>>131047874
>>131047737
>since greed didn't exist in primitive societies
[CITATION NEEDED]

>>131041183
>historical fact
>>131041183
Come again?
t.anthropologyfag

>>131041183
Without surplus there's no need of government.

>>131041572
theres always a chief in a society, council at worst

>>131042768
It would be fun seeing us (((them))) overtake us.

>>131047492
Exactly, family and communism are entities that work the same way, that's why communism is such a good system, because it's close to human nature and how humans work in a family (ie not in a greedy market like in capitalism)

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>>131041183

Look, kike, youre not interested in truth, and were not interested in your manipulative head games. Communism is white genocide, and youre all going to be dead soon.

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>>131042392
Oh god you really are a gommie and not a shill

>>131042732
some would bury the servants with the chief, not slaves, servants, the living servants would be killed to serve the chief in the afterlife

>>131048136
So you're unironically saying that society at large should function like one giant family, even though it's not?

>>131047737
>>131047874

Thanks for highlighting a major flaw in communism that even Marx and Stalin acknowledge.

Human being act based on self-interest (greed as you call it) and the only way for communism to work is for a new man, the Proletariat Man to emerge that works not for self interest/greed but out of selflessness and duty to fellow comrades.

But guess what, that man doesn't exist and until human beings evolve to no longer care about themselves communism will always fail.

The point of free market capitalism is to have a set of rules/principles in place that would have people work for their own self-interest while at the same time not violating other people's freedom/property.

>>131041183
What proofs do you have that primitive communism was a thing?

>>131041183
No surplus was maintained because they didnt fucking have refrigerators you fucking retard

>>131041183
scale OP. scale means everything.

as an analogy, water is a lethal poison to humans when you drink too much of it. in the right quantity, you die from it 100% of the time.

on the other hand, cyanide, one of the deadliest poisons on earth, in a small enough quantity, is found in many healthy foods, especially nuts and seeds and causes no problems for people when they ingest it.

the scale of the "communism" you suggest so small, happening on a disorganized, tribal level, and the human population so low and so spread out so as to make that practical, that the associated problems with your ideology did not have the chance to manifest. the "poison" was not found in significant enough quantities in the blood to destroy the whole of the organism :(

>>131048313
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marx%27s_theory_of_history

Read first stage

>>131048136
>what is scale
So you're suggesting we all live in a hippie commune knapping flint?

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>>131041183
That's the problem with communal communism - it doesn't work on urban/national level. Too many people makes planned economy an overly bureocratic and inefficient mess

>>131048136
if it's "it's so close to human nature" OP then why the fuck when you want to enact a communist regime / system of government do you have to kill millions upon millions of fucking non compliers and dissenters to make it happen? and why are the rest mostly held in line through fear and military might? oh wait "that's not real communism tho", right? because "real communism has never been tried", right?

maybe that's because "real communism" is so impractical and so ANTITHETICAL to human nature that it will NEVER be able to happen, and if it ever did, it would have to happen organically by definition, otherwise you're just another genocidal stalin, which it will NOT.

maybe this belief is 10/10 on the retardation scale and you should reconsider it.

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>>131042392
>>131043008
>>131043642

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>>131041183
You're describing tribalism, not communism. The closest modern analogue is nationalism. Communism is a 19th century ideology invented by jews in order to achieve equality for themselves and destroy white nationalism by taking control of the economy and murder white elites.

>>131041534
>It's easy to share, when chief will crack your head open if you don't share.
>It's easy to work together, when declining will end with starvation.
Can't....resist...
ACHTUALLY!!!
There are evidences of individuals so heavily wounded that they could bring literally no advantage to a tribe (crushed jaws, skulls so damaged that the individual probably became retarded, missing limbs, crushed spines with subsequent paralysis etc) where they saw that the cicatrization process in their bones is so advanced that it proves they were still fed by the other members of their tribe for years, some of them were even found in tribes that had sign of malnourishment

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>>131045763
this right here is the only answer. Those small communities of the past shared because they were essentialy just big families, I have no problems sharing things with people I have known for all my life, these people were similar

>>131048860
Because people are brainwashed in capitalism and become shadows of their egos

>>131041183
And then civilization started and another system had to be invented. So fucking dumb. You want to live in a communist society that does not break down? Sure, form tribes of 100 people and go live in the wild. You fucking idiot, you give the answer yourself but are too dumb to understand it. Your intuitive idea about how a civilization should function is just a leftover instinct from when we lived in hunter-gather tribes.
Humans also love sugar right? Because before civilization sugar was rare and needed to be consumed when one got the chance. Not in this day and age, today, peoples love for sugar is just a leftover instinct from before humans because civilized.

>>131047737
>(it's not utopia, it already existed)
It's utopia to think that what works with groups of 100 people will work in a group with one million people or more.

>>131043094
>Not even a nibble
Try harder, fag.

>>131047368
Good thing i also lived under his rule. You're full of lies.

Eat shit and die commie shill

>>131041183
non-productive members of society were literally left to starve
we're not desperate enough to survive to let that happen

>>131042392
MEME!

>>131041183
Because getting something to work on the small scale is infinitely easier than getting it to work on the large scale.

Primitive communism worked because you knew all members by name. In larger groups this dynamic breaks down since you can't just trust others to do what they should.

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>>131041183
>Lets use pre agriculture humans as the basis for how society should be run

Are you under the impression that women were equals in primitive tribes or something? You really think the women were given as much meat as the hunters?

>>131041183

> dead by 40
> "healthcare" involved bashing holes in your skull to let evil spirits out
> "working"

This is why letting communists redefine words was a mistake.

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>>131041183
we evolved dipshit

>>131049586
marameo