Why haven't you taken the Ancap pill anon? Is freedom too

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>>130899100
Newfag here, what is ancap?

>>130899352
Society without government where services are provided by businesses. Your free to do anything as long as it doesnt threaten or harm another human

>>130899352
Best be ye lurk for 3 months before posting ye first there, matey. Arrrrgh

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>tfw you didn't pay the staircase toll

>>130899569
Who will enforce rule??

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Freedom is an alpha ideology & it appeals to people with strong character & a sense of self worth.

Plot Muslims, the patriarchy & recognizing that taxation is indeed theft and you have your answer.

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>>130899790
the person being infringed

>>130899569
Who enforces the laws against threatening or harming another human being?

I never understood, is this like radical libertarianism with the smallest amount of government oversight to stop practices that harm individuals or is it full anarchy with no government at all?

>>130900233
Ancap is no state, replacing the way it provides services for alternatives. Make sense? Minarchy is minimal government.

>>130900068
Then there is no rule

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Anarcho-capitalism has no means of addressing externalities.

Poli-sci student fail bullshit that isn't any more workable in practice than communism.

Nation states are fucking awesome, bruh.

>>130899790
>>130900165
The better question to be askin is who will protect ye land lubbers booty when me and mine come to shore. Arrrrgh

>>130900398
Take the fash pill my friend. It's a lot better than this retarded libertarian bullshit that completely fails

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-Yszp3SmxE

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>>130899100

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>>130900682

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>>130900764

>>130900635
Shut your mouth you dirty skallywag! Ancap is the best thing for ye western states. No coast guard or navy to protect ye plunder from the likes of me!

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>>130900795

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>>130900818

>>130899769
story?

>>130900521
Nation-states would still exist in an anarcho-capitalist society, and is arguably the only way such a society would exist.

>>130900398
>>130900635
Rule is determined by the landowner(s). Who ever doesn't follow such rule is physically removed, so to speak. Don't listen to "le open-border ancaps", Anarcho-Capitalism couldn't exist without all individuals consenting to it, so it's within our best interest to kill or remove all communist or other ideologies that could oppose a threat to our libertarian social order.

Read "Democracy: The God That Failed" by Hans Hermann Hoppe.

>>130900327
So things like private security contractors instead of police forces? If so, doesn't that screw over everyone that can't hire a person 24/7 to watch there house and other shit they "own".

I suppose you could set a business model where you can call a rental police officer to your house if you're in danger or if your shit gets got. What about products regulation? What would you do if you used a product and died from its use, supposing it was used as directed and as intended of course. How would others seek restitution for that death or would you just hope the market would correct itself on its own because, hopefully, no one would buy that product anymore?

I love that there's a resurgance of a Liberty movement around the world. The good thing is there are so many practical examples of side-stepping government that it's easier for people to see the market, themselves & their community as a potential solution.

There's so much literature out now as well, more than 200 years of economic & philosophical thought to draw on. Things are lookin good.

Just need to get past this religeous war with Islam and take advantage of the wide political divisions between conseravatives and liberals. A 3rd way using Liberty is the only realistic solution to bring back some peace & cooperation, the current way of alt-right vs SJWs is just going to lead to constant and accelerating conflict.

Yuri Bezmenov was right, freedom is the cure to idealogical subversion, the rest are basically useful idiots.

>>130900795
it's gold

>>130900795
the topmost of keks

>>130901293
>Nation-states would still exist in an anarcho-capitalist society, and is arguably the only way such a society would exist.

If you have nations, that means you have laws. So how is it really any different than what we already have?

You're a nationalist/lite-fascist. Like most sane people. All the best countries are like this. US, China, Russia.

>>130901539
I really don't see society & the market with a Libertarian culture (which is needed for a transition) directly immitating the state. Honestly the state is really shit at keeping society peaceful & cooperative long term and its pretty shit at resolving disputes. Court system and local government are shit and private alternatives have already been developed to help mitigate their incompetence.

Think first of things like credit ratings, rental blacklists & economic/social incentives and you clear up a majority of social disputes. The true stuff around force would have to be taken care of as well but even then its hard to imagine a market coming up with just a McDonalds police force & McArmy. I'd honestly be pretty excited to see what 7 billion people could potentially come up with as far as competing alternatives and innovation vs the current stagnant mess.

Have you read Molymeme's "The Stateless Society an examination of alternatives" it's a good starting point....and honestly if we just privatized & decentralized everything the state did I think it would be more efficient without even taking into account the various alternative ways to solve problems and innovations that could be possible.

I think markets would seek equilibrium in these areas but people have to go back to solving problems either directly and with much better third parties than the state. For example I like the idea of a contract rating agency, both free and paid that can be involved with employment and rental contracts as mutually agreed arbiters etc. Again though the current court system doesn't really protect us anymore, not from corporations (thanks government) and it can barely be used for neighbourhoods disputes. It's costly, it removes peoples ability to communicate problems and compromise with eachother and it gives us a really shit third party to defer all of our problems to. We can do better.

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>>130901636
Yuri has foresight

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-XVqpkGquc

>>130900233
Its more like every individual is their own governing body with with exception of independent capital and an NAP guiding social interaction in the court of public opinion.

>>130901539
Another great thing to look at is the history of social welfare. Have a look at the way Mutual Aid societies worked with lodge doctor practice & think just how easy it would be to cover the few truly poor people in healthcare no covered by insurance, mutual aid, savings, family etc.

http://www.freenation.org/a/f12l3.html

Then I think, how would we as a society and the market apply the same innovation and mass access to resources that we've done for iphones, the internet and how we used to handle healthcare etc, how would that be applied to police & law:

https://www.lewrockwell.com/2005/10/stefan-molyneux/the-stateless-society-an-examination-of-alternatives/

From there the possibilities just open right up. Would love to hear your thoughts, it's been a long time since I first read these articles and had my own interpretation.

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Reminder ancaps are antifas, and didnt exist here just prior to the election. They are antifa shills. They are anti-state, which makes them anti-fascist.

sage

>>130902026
>If you have nations, that means you have laws.
Communities in Anarcho-Capitalist society would be formed by people who voluntarily live together in close proximity. The community, or collection of communities would be considered a "nation". Laws are determined by what this nations inhabitants considers moral or preferable. So if a nation does not want a product such as a drug, then this product and everyone in this nation who owns this product be removed or handled with. This can apply to specific people, such as one's with an ideological preference, or with any physical attribute like race. The way such rules are enforced are up to this nation's inhabitants.

I may have butchered that explanation, so I recommend you read that book I was talking about in my last post.

>>130899769
Why does he keep running up the stairs and towards the dude shooting him

>>130902898
>anyone i dont like is a shill
ancaps hate commies more than anyone else faggot

>>130902898
>he uses a poll with a sample size of a fraction of a fraction of /pol/'s users as "proof"
Kek.

>>130902898
Post the proper one where Fasc duked it out with Libertarians & it was like a straight up 50/50, 40/40 + other result. Be realistic mate.

>>130899100
Because your propaganda branch is shit.

Meaning you fucks STILL can't decide what is essentiall AnCap reading material. Is it Atlas Shrugged of Gulag Archipelago, The Plight of Young Werther or Child Harold?

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>>130902910
>Communities in Anarcho-Capitalist society would be formed by people who voluntarily live together in close proximity. The community, or collection of communities would be considered a "nation". Laws are determined by what this nations inhabitants considers moral or preferable.

So you still have the externality problem, then. And you also have a bunch of wars between your shitty little tribes.

Those aren't nation-states. They'll always be fighting with each other over resources and externalities. It's degeneracy.

Pic related to the solution to all these problems.

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>>130903010

>anarchists hate commies!
>anarchists are your friend!

Youre Trudeau.

>post national state

So Canada.

>>130899790
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0IEQmuaJeew

Tl;dw: insurance/security companies

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countries are independently-operating entities within an anarchic universe, therefore ancap already is the de-facto state of the universe and inescapable.

what's to argue about? why make a stupid flag about it? you don't have to argue for ancap just like you don't have to argue for gravity. you may feel like the world "should" be something else like communism, or you may feel like the world "should" be an-cap, but that doesn't change the fact that the world is already ancap, just like arguing about whether should or shouldn't be gravity doesn't change whether there is gravity.

tldr; you're all fucking idiots

>>130899790
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTYkdEU_B4o

>>130903254
Competition it's the name of the game with or withouth goverment.

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>>130903128

Anarchists are not libertarians. Bikelockfaggot was an anarchist.

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>>130900795

not so fast statist!

>>130903329
Sooooo the state gets a new name? and a corporation nonetheless. Surely no corruption in this fantasy land

>>130903254
Trade proved to be more mutually beneficial than war & far less costly. The only thing keeping war going is that it's the lifeblood & necessity of the state. People cooperate peacefully within a nation all the time without police presence and that with really shit statist systems in place to keep the peace. That only really leaves if a state wants to invade and forcibly occupy the entire populace of an area which long term is impossible if there's not defined monopoly power structure to take over otherwise it becomes and endless bog that even the US wouldn't be able to win. Not even taking into account Libertarian propaganda would be an even better detterant or war-ender than Switzerlands plz trade motto.

>>130902235
I'm not completely convinced. A lot of your argument, at least to me, seems to be based around the whole "perfection is the greatest enemy of good" idea. Yeah the system we have sucks and has flaws but perfection in a system meant to maintain order is always going to have those that disagree with the way the system works.

To its credit, the free market does do a better job fixing issues than the government, because it needs to turn a profit, but none of that works without competition. Why, as a wealthy businessman, would I ever let any competitor raise up in the first place. If I'm the sole provider for widgets I have no need to improve my product, and if another person tries to start selling widgets I can just have him killed have all his shit robbed so and can't compete.

I'm honestly trying to look at this viewpoint as fairly as possible but whenever someone brings up a potential problem the whole "the markets will figure out the solution" doesn't really sell me on it. It just seems like the "can't somebody else do it" of ideologies.

>>130903254
>Those aren't nation-states. They'll always be fighting with each other over resources and externalities. It's degeneracy.
>implying this doesn't already happen between governments

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>>130899769
>no a drop of blood
fake as fuck

>>130899100

I think a state military is necessary, but apart from that, I'm AnCap to the core.

> t. Minarchist

>>130903399
WOW. And I thought leftist memes were bad

>>130900818
>>130900853
I mean I consent to taxes to keep the courts running, fund national defense, and basic infrastructure things, but I never agreed to pay for single moms and old people who didnt plan well enough for their retirement.

>>130903192
The Machinery of Freedom

or better yet, just watch Robocop. it's the argument for why going halfway with state/capitalist solutions will fail, and why government authority must be abolished completely

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>>130903394
>>130903128

Also the one I posted was from 2015, before the election. Before that, it was much more National Socialist. The one you speak of is from this year, pure cancer. Post Reddit invasions (2014&15) and post election. Worthless. It was also a straight 50/50 vote with no other choice.

Pic related in this post is from 2012, and the meme larpers of the time took part, which is why it had commies. Its their goal to make themselves seem more powerful than they are. I always avoided these senate threads like the plague, that was seen as /b/ tier crap. This is the best representation Ive seen of what old/pol/ was like, though.

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>>130903368

to drive the point home: it doesn't matter how many trudeaus or obombyas or stalins your faggot country votes in. it doesn't matter whether ron paul, donald trump, hitler or qaddafi is running the show.

it's still all ancap whether you like it or not, because the imaginary things you call governments still exist within anarchy no matter how many layers of imaginary communist or capitalist systems you think there are.

it's all based on anarchy. these nuanced systems have evolved in the societal minds within that anarchy.

>>130903453
A lot of key differences.
> The state is a justified monopoly of violence
> A business does not try to justify it in the same way
> A business does not claim to be a geographical monopoly and owner above private property
> A business is subject to competition
> A business is subject to incentives
> Consumers of a business have recourse
> A business will never convince people to allow them to provide a service without proving proper checks and balances because we all have the same fear

Same thing with community alternatives, personal, familial & private alternatives not including businesses. There are a lot of key differences and if it just ends up turning into a state then wow we've come back to the same spot but with some imagined chaotic scenario inbetween.

>>130903720

Guy said it was 2012, but apparently hes wrong because it says 14 in it. Goes right along with what I said about it being /b/ tier, even the senate threads were just a cancer way for people to try and force non-national socialist ideologies on the board, and skew peoples view of what it was really like.

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>>130903811
>> The state is a justified monopoly of violence

The state literally exists within anarchy.

>>130902898
Yeah they did, they just called themselves libertarian. Before /pol/ is what it is today, it was a predominantly libertarian board. Are you really that retarded?

>>130903897
>it was a predominantly libertarian board
kinda like libertarianism was a common stepping stone for a lot of authoritarians and fascists. You don't actually think libertarianism is a matured ideology. LOL it's a middle point for evolving minds

>>130900165
The NAP. Ancap literally has more magical thinking than communism does.

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>>130903897

Except Libertarian (Ron Paul) was #3, and accounted for. Youre the retard. Anarchists are not libertarian. The only thing you share in common is the yellow and black, thats about as deep as it goes. The rest is just "anarchy! Punch a Nazi!!!"

>>130902898
Commies are to Ancaps what ice is to fire. Commies are literally our complete opposite and mortal enemies. We worship Hoppe and Pinochet; dudes that advocate killing or otherwise physically removing degenerate communists.

>>130899100
Who look after the mentally ill and disabled?

>>130900817
ay i like this guy

>>130903525
>Why, as a wealthy businessman, would I ever let any competitor raise up in the first place
You would try to outcompete the competitor in terms of quality and prices of goods. I fail to see the problem with this. The potential competitor is still a threat, if you try profiteering and raise prices that competitor will gladly step up to undercut your business by offering lower prices or higher quality goods, and would be pulling in your customers.

Even if you were the sole provider of a good you still face competition. If I'm the only provider of soda in the entire planet, I still have to compete with water, milk, tea, juice, coffee, etc.

>I can just have him killed have all his shit robbed so and can't compete.
You'd then be attacked by his rights enforcement agency. Warring typically costs a lot of money and resources, a business that is directed by profit has no incentive to start unprofitable conflicts.

>>130903387
Competition can be healthy, or it can be unhealthy to the society at large. Government's job is to ensure that it remains healthy and not deleterious. It's a valuable role.

>>130903518
>Trade proved to be more mutually beneficial than war & far less costly.

Bahahah what? Look at any suitable parallel, like the Italian States period, for so many counter examples of this claim. See above: competition can be healthy or unhealthy. You need government to referee, and to hold a monopoly on the really extremely dangerous forms of force that technological society especially can bring to bear. The last thing we need is some tiny inbred gaggle of corporate collectivists building nukes to lob at their neighbors.

>>130903526
Governments become large enough to reach steady states. Warring factional tribes never do.

>>130903531
>not like my video games, must be fake

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>>130902898

>IP addresses "voted" in a completely meaningless and maximally unscientific pixel battle that may or may not have ever happened

>no one gives a shit

nice flag faggot.

all of your team jersey flag labels are gayer than AIDs.

hyper autism is this LARPing flag waving shit. no one cares about your internet flags.

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>>130904088

>we worship authoritarian states

No. Youre confused, thats all. You dont know what you are. Youre not an anarchist, and ANcaps are anarchists. They hate any state, they desire anarchy. No laws.

Libertarians desire a state to ensure their way of life and protect them. They want liberty, not anarchy. The ones around here want an ethnically pure society, too, and are willing to use force to achieve it. Thats not you.

Got a question for ancaps: What is your stance on usury?

>>130899100
When you're ideology has to use a non-argument to have anyone consider it as anything other then a joke. Individualism is for fags. If you wanna sit there playing with your butthole go ahead, real people are going to create a nation together and strive for something greater that lasts beyond their lives.

>>130902943
looks like he was a hitman sent to kill the older guy.

>>130903525
> "perfection is the greatest enemy of good" idea.
I'm not actually sure I understand what you're trying to say here.

> Why, as a wealthy businessman, would I ever let any competitor raise up in the first place
Always a strange objection to me. I mean the government is the biggest and almost sole entity for creating & maintaining 99% of monopolies. The reason why the government is so good at creating & maintaing monopolies is because there's little recourse, it's easily controlled by special interest, it is the only one that has the justified power to someone as big as violently enforce a monopoly on a continent.

It's not hard for me to imagine systems that discourage needless costly violence. Violence costs a lot of money unless you're using homeless kids like gangs do and keeping everything for yourself. Even then look at Molymemes idea of DROs with contract rating agencies. Would you kill someone if it meant no one would do business with you at all? Would you then just accept being part of the low rating black market or would you kill everyone until people decided to....buy fidget spinners from only you? Like lol how ridiculous of a scenario do we have to imagine?

> I'm honestly trying to look at this viewpoint as fairly as possible
> "can't somebody else do it" of ideologies.

Fair enough, that's cool. The reason why its brought up so much is because Libertarians are the opposite of central planners, the idea that society can be planned by a small group of individuals is beyond ridiculous, I mean see Hayek's The Use of Knowledge in Society to have that whole worldview open up like cathedral doors. Libertarians don't claim to know what solution suits 7 billion or 200 million or 24million people, it's amazing what people have come up with when they were free to do so, shit no one at the time could imagine, but we do use past & present examples for ideas on what is possible & then theorize what could be possible on top of that.

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>>130904290

Its a National Socialist board. Nice Reddit spacing and general overall shitposting.. You will never be a /pol/ack, this clearly bothers you. Before you showed up, years before you showed up, we had flags, and if you posted this drivel youd receive no less than 8 responses telling you how to hang yourself in detail. Thats /pol/. /pol/ wants you dead. /pol/ cares about white genocide, and cultural marxism, and knows full well about kikes and their agenda. You need to go, back to your marxist shithole where you can cry about muh racism and how you wish you could #KillAllWhites

>>130904300
We only worship them for their practice of physical removal which hoppe theorized and Pinochet pioneered

>>130899769
wtf does that first bullet ricochet off the ledge and a fragment hit near the camera? why those sparks?

>free markets actually don't lead to prosperity
>it's actually good genes
wew lad, kind of demolishes the entire premise of libertarianism doesn't it?

>>130900521

>Poli-sci student fail bullshit that isn't any more workable in practice than communism.

You are literally living in anarchy.

>t. actual political scientist

>>130904212
>Government's job is to ensure that it remains healthy and not deleterious.
You're making a distinction between healthy and unhealthy competition but you're not actually explaining what determines whether it is "healthy" or not. Are you arguing that the government has fulfilled its supposed role? The government giving special privileges to businesses, bailing businesses out, granting subsidies, and regulating businesses is maintaining healthy competition?

Are you actually arguing that consuming resources to fight and killing your own workforce somehow raises society's standard of living? Do you also think that WW2 ended the great depression?

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>>130904594

*yawn*

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>>130899100
So how are you going to deal with declining white birth rates and the rise in savage birth rates?

>>130899100
Who manages communal property?

>>130904300
>You dont know what you are.
You clearly have no clue what you are talking about.

>They hate any state, they desire anarchy.
Reddit ancaps do. Most ancaps with sense like states that removed the enemys of a libertarian social order, such as pinochet.

>Libertarians desire a state to ensure their way of life and protect them.
The state is still comprised of people, they aren't omnipresent gods who are the only protectors in the universe. The state does not care for liberty, they only care for the state itself. Look at the transformation of America from it's conception to now for proof. Liberty can only be defended by the people who want it.

>They want liberty, not anarchy.
They clearly don't if they want a state.

>The ones around here want an ethnically pure society, too, and are willing to use force to achieve it.
Huh. And you think the state is going to help you do that? Ethno-states are perfectly possible in Ancapism.

>>130899100

> When you really want to live in a cyberpunk dystopia, but without the cool gadgets and cyborg implants

>>130899100
How is the ownership of resources defined?

>>130904166
With soda that analogy works because it's a beverage and there are multiple types but I'm referring to a wholly original product in its entirety. Let's say I am the sole provider and producer of cars, sure I have to compete with trains, plains, and bikes, but those serve largely different markets, and the independents afforded to those that have a car is priceless. I'm already swimming in money Scrooge mcduck style so who cares if I have to spend some cash to kill my competition, and who is to say I wouldn't just buy out his "rights enforcement agency's" contract so they don't bother me? Once I do it enough times people will relies that it won't work and stop trying.

>>130904896
Form communities with like minded individuals and block out non-desirables from entering such communities.

>>130905559
oh, kind of like a state?

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>>130899100
why arent you in Somalia punk ?

>>130904300 Czech'd

We're anarchists in the sense that we don't want involuntary external governments. Not in the sense that we reject all order, civilization, and hierarchy. We're not postmodernists or moral relativists. We want a voluntary and stateless society, not chaos.

Ancap is a name we use because libertarianism became classical liberalism and anarchy became chaos.

The reason states produce tyranny for consumers and free market corporations don't, is because participation in businesses is optional. If an ISP becomes a tyrant in a free society, there is no state to enforce their monopoly. There's nothing forcing you to stay their customer.

The thing preventing corporations from tyrannizing workers is also voluntarism. Workers form labor unions (I.e. group negotiation companies) to negotiate mutually beneficial employment agreements with companies. The lack of a state prevents union tyranny over businesses.

BTW I'm actually something along the lines of a national capitalist. Basically if nazi germany were free market purists and funded the government with (theoretically voluntary) tariffs. Something like chile under Pinochet crossed with early America. No central banks and no fractional reserve lending combined with a free market in currencies would prevent (((userers))) from taking over the country and economy.

>>130905238
government inc. of course

>>130905598
State implies rule without consent.

It's funny you make this comparison, because the governments of the West are the most responsible for white genocide.

>>130905559
You realize that is in direct conflict with a core principle of AnCap, right? The right to self-ownership seeks to allow the individual to express their will freely - this includes moving about wherever they like.

>>130903525
>can't somebody else do it?

the more I think about libertarian/ancap ideas, the less I think of it as a hippieish "live and let live" ideology

we want humans to take decisive control of their surroundings. the core of economics is that resources are scarce, and we must choose how we use them.

market economics and private property are a continuous, systematic process of testing and changing who is in control of everything in our world.

it's more of a copout to say that a government should be in charge of some aspect of our lives

>why would I let any competitor raise up

government is the tool that established businesses use to shut out competitors.

in a market economy with no government to manipulate, an established business has some advantages over an upstart, but is much more susceptible to being overtaken

>>130905238
The owner of such property sharing for free. Or a group of people that shares ownership of that property.

>>130905860
>State implies rule without consent.
You just sound like a commie desu.

>>130904733
>You're making a distinction between healthy and unhealthy competition but you're not actually explaining what determines whether it is "healthy" or not.

Do I need to? Don't you acknowledge that there can be unhealthy forms of competition?

Examples of healthy competition in business are making a better product than your competitors offer, or finding clever ways to lower your production costs.

Examples of unhealthy competition would be, for instance, assassinating your competitors employees, sabotaging their production facilities, deceiving consumers, things like that.

What's the difference between the two? Well, the first category improves society as a whole. The second category harms it, making life worse rather than better. It's of course more complex than that, but that's the basic idea.

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>>130902910
You are literally defining government there, buddy.

>>130904385
Free market in currencies, NO CENTRAL BANKS OF ANY KIND EVER, and no fractional reserve lending. I've thought about this problem for a long time... Charging interest on loans seems to me to be necessary so that lenders will loan money to high risk people/businesses. Otherwise once you hit zero you're fucked.

>>130899100
Because anarchy doesn't work without a higj IQ population. All the inbreds will be criminals.

>>130900165
Private companies. The entire point is to replace the govt (which has a monopoly on defense, police, etc.) with multiple competing businesses in order to drive down costs, increase quality of the service/product, and ensure that if a business has shitty practices or products, it will fail and be replaced by its competition.

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>>130902910

>>130899100
>being Ancap
>Not taking the next logical step and going full on pirate
>thinking the NAP will save ye upon these scurvy seas.

>>130905991
What differentiates between private, communal and unowned property? You're full of horse shit, but I want to hear you answer it.

>>130905922
That's stupid. Someone can't trespass onto someone's property. That means both parties do not consent, which breaks the NAP. A group of people who voluntarily live together doesn't break the NAP, and have every right to defend themselves from people they do not want.

>an commie trying to argue what is ancap and what is not
You mere existence is a danger to an anarcho-capitalist society, and you should be shot dead.

>>130904698
Free markets allow good genes to flourish and fulfill their potential for greatness. Tyranny and state control stifles and prevents the genetically superior from achieving all they could. Degenerates adapt or fail out of existence.

A state taxes the genetically superior to fund the continuance of the weak and less able to provide for themselves. Welfare and social safety nets in a nutshell.

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>>130899100
Ancaps are absolutely insufferable. So smug while they say the dumbest shit imaginable

>>130905860
So leave the fucking state. Is anyone forcing you to stay?
Arguments you people use are fucking retarded. Go conduct a poll, ask people whether they are okay with their state, in almost every state in the fucking world majority will support the state. What then?
Who the fuck are you, a tiny minority, to push shit no one wants, that affects EVERYONE?
>m-muh property
Property is a social construct. Society evolved over time and thus we have states as one expression of a civilized society. You don't recognize evolution of society except in that one detail, property and respect for property. Guess what, in past people and all the land were ''property'' of a despot. Concept of property evolved just like society.
But whatever, you people are fucking lunatics. Your idol is a semi-literate military dictator owned by CIA, but you claim you're for freedom. Freedom of what? Freedom at the expense of everyone else?
Grow the fuck up and stop shilling for your adolescent fantasies, it's not going to happen. Your ideology is the most contradictory piece of shit I ever saw, even fucking communists make more sense than you people.

>>130906253
>and you should be shot dead
--because commies seeking to redistribute private property through the use of force is a breach of the NAP. Just so everyone's clear on that.

>>130900521
socialism has no means of addressing scarcity.

literally a bullshit fantasy made up by people who've never taken a science class.

>>130899100
when your ideology is based entirely in imagination, every argument is a strawman because nobody knows your own delusions quite like yourself

>>130906329
>Free markets allow good genes to flourish and fulfill their potential for greatness.
And yet millions of cheap shitskin labourers are brought in by large corporations.

>>130905981
This. Ancap isn't live and let live, it's live and let die.

>>130906253
You're saying if you own a house, I can't walk in. That is correct. But I can walk around your house all fucking day.

>According to Rothbard, property can only come about through labor, therefore original appropriation of land is not legitimate by merely claiming it or building a fence around it; it is only by using land

read your shit, kid

Oh and just to be clear, I respect your right to have an opinion. But it goes from opinion to being a subversive when you support violent actions and dictatorship in order to accomplish your fantasies.
Though that's just hypothetical, in reality you're all fucking basement dwellers totally out of touch with real life, that's why you support autistic fantasies which hinge on a unrealistic and simplistic social model.

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>>130906356
Kek of all keks. True that based Denmark

>>130906370
Where will they go? Name some land that isn't under rule of some form of government or another. There's no such thing. In addition, simply because you can make a random desolate land into a paradise doesn't mean you shouldn't strive to improve the humanity's efforts for living and thriving in a community, together, without fear of the threat of superimposed and often immoral (welfare, socialist) laws

>>130903531

Looks like some in front of the doorway before he falls down stairs.

>>130906064
stateless society would be the best for the poorest and dumbest.

the biggest thing is that there is no military sending poor people to fight aggressive wars.

a legal market for drugs means that streets are not filled with violent niggers. the absence of any black market means that there is no career path for criminals. there is no temptation for poor young blacks to quit school and become a drug dealer

no minimum wage means anybody can find a job. those blacks that would be drug dealers are instead working. the jobs are very shitty at first, but the people are productive and gaining skills and good habits. things will get better in their lives

the acceleration of technology and wealth creation will bring the cost of living down. you will be able to live a decent life with less and easier work.

>>130899100
Its a meme ideology,when you grow up you will understand why.

>>130906733
This is all idealistic at best, and hideously naive at worst.

>>130906524
And how the fuck is that my problem?
>isn't under rule
Exactly, most of land in the world is a PROPERTY of a certain nation. That group of people we call a nation share that property under various models.
This method of organization of human groups evolved over thousands of years in almost every place on the globe.
Your model? It's the imagination of some autistic Jews and fringe ''academics''.
>improve
But you offer no improvement. It's just an autistic celebration of extreme and illogical individualism.
It's basically neo-feudalism, and I got several of your freaks to admit that after long and utterly pointless discussion.
You offer nothing, you're cringy, you have no support, you have no consistency, your ideas about such a society are either unrealistic or you just pretend you support something while your goals are totally different, ie. neo-feudalism as I said. Shut the fuck up and stop acting so smug about your adolescent cult, and go to Somalia or some other piece of unclaimed land and build your great society there.
No one will buy shit you're selling because it makes no sense.

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>>130899100
So you belive in a world without laws, cops and healthcare. Good luck living for more than a year

>>130906733
Only way your society could function is when post-scarcity or near post-scarcity is reached. In this sense you're exactly the same as communists.

>>130906733
Jesus fuck...have you ever read a book!?Have you ever talked to another human being!?Do you even get out of your basement!?
If you did not i suggest you start now and if you are not under 20 years old i have bad news for you....you are either retarded or an american.

>>130906951
And this is the truth, majority of people who back shit like this are people who wouldn't endure few months in such a world. It's utterly insane. Fantasies of a few spoiled first-worlders who grew up without any real adversity.

>>130899569
Thats called corporate fascism you know.

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>>130906922
Allahu Akbar

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>>130899100
>when you have one of the only political ideologies where common sense violates the NAP

>>130904300
>No laws.

Only statist tools think anarchy requires no laws.

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>muh guh gubs
>gub lub me
>being a quantifiable resource is Dark Enlightenment™
>if you're not cool with extensive socialization and power consolidation you're like mad dumb and shit

>>130906733
>no military sending poor people to war
There hasn't been a draft in america in 30 years, and I would assume the same from most western countries. It's a career CHOICE that they make.
>Drug market
No argument here except that the smarter entrepreneurs will crush the competition and land the less capable back in square one.
>no minimum wage
no comment

I believe low IQ people, in the end, stand a much better chance thieving and preying on richer folk than they will have in a free market society, evidenced by the entire welfare system. How do you keep these individuals out if an ancap society?

>>130905487
>but I'm referring to a wholly original product in its entirety
>Let's say I am the sole provider and producer of cars
There are many different types of cars made it completely different ways. Tell me, why would you be the only producer of cars? Does your argument only work under a ridiculous hypothetical? Henry Ford did not even have a market share of 50% with the Model T at its peak. No one is the sole producer of a single good for any measurable amount of time unless given privileges by the government in the form of patents.

>I'm already swimming in money Scrooge mcduck style so who cares if I have to spend some cash to kill my competition, and who is to say I wouldn't just buy out his "rights enforcement agency's" contract so they don't bother me? Once I do it enough times people will relies that it won't work and stop trying.
You're only looking at this in one dimension. Why would that agency want to sully its reputation working with you? Who would patronize an agency that commits fraud? Why would your rights enforcement agency agree to fight another agency over nothing? They're in business too, putting your workers lives at risk to fight, supplying resources to fight, and dealing with any legal arbitration is incredibly expensive. And all of this is under the assumption that you're the only producer of cars, which is laughably invalid.

I'm not a fucking retarded utopian child. Jesus Christ I hate you retards.

>>130906733
>quit school

also there is no government school. look at africa, where entrepreneurs had to open private schools in shipping containers because the government schools were corrupt and the teachers don't show up. the shipping container schools cost $1 a week, which is actually kind of a lot for african parents, but they can pay it. special interests in those countries are trying to shut the private schools down.

america's poor are millionaires compared to africans. those that can benefit from school will get their educations

but more importantly, there are kids who probably don't belong in school past various ages. if they aren't intellectuals, they should just go get jobs and help their families and become prepared to live on their own.

if a child isn't motivated to learn for the sake of learning, he should be motivated by money, and should just start producing as soon as possible. it will probably be better for their mental health than being stuck in a school they hate.

>>130899352
Rampant niggerdom where normal people have a way to meaningfully oppose it for a short period of time before we're all overrun.

>>130906370
>lol you don't like this, just leave
3rd grader logic.

>in almost every state in the fucking world majority will support the state
Wew lad that's one retarded assumption.

>Property is a social construct.
Just like race, amiright? Off yourself, redditor.


>>130906491
>But I can walk around your house all fucking day.
No, I would still shoot you.

Property is defined by your ability to defend it. A group of like-minded people is the best way to defend an area, so working with people instead of against is the best way to conduct things.

>>130907120
People like Von Mises literally backed fascism, and he's the ideological predecessor of these tools.
Imagine suffering from a cognitive dissonance so great you are reconciling totalitarian dictatorship and ''freedom''.

>>130907120
That's means business work for and only for the state. Read a book before coming back.

>>130907370
>3rd grader logic
Except you have no retort to that.
>Wew lad that's one retarded assumption.
Show evidence to back your statement, or at least make it probable.
>Just like race, amiright? Off yourself, redditor.
Ahh, buzzwords. Keep going, you're completely making your ideology look asinine.
And yes, property as you see it is a SOCIAL CONSTRUCT. Respect for property is a social construct. Are you literally retarded?
Race is something rooted in biology, and even then it's partly a social construct, if you knew history you would know this you retarded fuck.

>>130907318
Yeah agency and responsibility are really childish and shameful.

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>>130906065

Why is this a *safer* option than govt regulated police. Can't bad practices artificially dominate competition?

>>130906922
>group of people
Government is not a thing. Government is not a person. Government cannot own things, individuals own things. It's been developed by every country on the globe by hierarch superstructures that use citizens as a means to an end. Half your taxes are shipped to isreal and you have no say in it. It is a broken system, and you can not escape from taxes you don't want to pay. I'm not an anarchist, but I'm not stupid either.
>illogical individualism
>neo-feudalism
A free market is neither of those things. A simple analysis of america's market history will show that less regulation closes the gap between rich and poor without using exhaustive and immoral tax laws to do it. Regulation is a good way to widen and bloat that gap.
>ad hominem
Ok

>>130906018
>Examples of healthy competition in business are making a better product than your competitors offer, or finding clever ways to lower your production costs.
Oh but if you lower your prices too low and outcompete other people, you'll be taken to court by the US government for violating anti-trust laws (see US vs. Alcoa). Oh, and if you make a better product than company X, company X will lobby the government for subsidies through your taxes (Green energy companies).

>Examples of unhealthy competition would be, for instance, assassinating your competitors employees, sabotaging their production facilities, deceiving consumers, things like that.
Oh, but the government gives power to unions and lets them assault "scabs."

>>130907760

Yes. Ancapism would result in corporatocracy, like a cyberpunk dystopia without any of the cool gadgets or cyborg implants.

>>130907370
>Property is defined by your ability to defend it.

That's not AnCap. You just proved you have no idea what you believe in. You're not using the area directly outside your house, and so long as I don't change it's integrity you have no right to "defend" it - it's not yours.

If you can prove that you are using that space, such as farmland, or for grazing of animals - and so long you can prove I am altering it's integrity, then it may be considered defensible.

Otherwise, you're full of shit. Most Anarchists would laugh at your definition of private property.

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>>130905487
I forgot to mention, who is going to stop someone paying the government out to fuck over another business? Even having a government would not solve this problem. Do we need a government to govern the governments?

>>130907812
>government cannot own things
corporations can, just consider the government as a publically owned corporation

is your only argument resorting to stupid technicalities
>I would be totally fine with private landowners doing all this stuff, but the government is somehow different so it's wrong when it's coming from them

at least with government you get to have a say

>>130907828
>Oh but if you lower your prices too low and outcompete other people, you'll be taken to court by the US government for violating anti-trust laws (see US vs. Alcoa).

You're arguing a specific case against a general one. I'm not saying that specifically everything every government does to maintain healthy competition is good and justifiable. Rather I'm merely arguing that, in principle, the function of ensuring healthy competition is necessary and beneficial. You aren't countering that argument.

>Oh, and if you make a better product than company X, company X will lobby the government for subsidies through your taxes (Green energy companies).

Regulatory capture is a legitimate problem of any regulatory regime. But likewise, air pollution is a legitimate problem of gasoline engines. It's still better to have cars than horses, though.

>Oh, but the government gives power to unions and lets them assault "scabs."

Assault is a crime. Again, you're arguing a specific case against the general case. Governments do occasionally do stupid things, that doesn't invalidate the need for governments.

It works the other way on unions, too. Ever hear of Matewan? Only time in American history when the (then Army) Air Force has been called up to drop bombs on American citizens. Because those citizens were basically slaves of the coal camp operators, paid in skrip, loading 16 tons and what did they get, all that jazz.

>>130899100
Being 'flawless and foolproof' except when people throw analogies, examples, and impracticalities that somewhat strawman the ideology is the same tactic used to discredit most communist positions.

Yeah, ancap is better than the squo. Still has implementation problems but is a very principled ideology, suffers from hypothetical implementation shortcomings just like any ivory tower economic theory.

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>>130908119
>...you get to have a say

>>130908119
>Corporations own things
Under certain laws. I'm of the opinion that those laws should be removed and the CEOs and other figureheads of their respective institutions should be held responsible for their actions.
>at least with government you get to have your say
I don't remember signing up to give up half my paycheck in taxes for social security, or supporting israel, or building roads across the country. Again, I'm not an anarchist, but I do value my time and my work.

>>130908242

Still waiting to learn how it won't turn into a corporatocratic dystopia like something out of cyberpunk without the cool stuff.

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>>130903811
Damn, this is actually pretty sensible.

Oddly enough, people don't try to argue against good points. They just meme about having to pay for ridiculous things that wouldn't become monetized if the state disappeared.

Statists btfo.

>>130899100
Ancap is a good starting point. You know you want minimal taxes.

Eventually, you'll realize that federalism is however necessary to some degree, and you'll join the rest of the intelligent adults in the more pragmatic, practical fight to end Social Security, welfare, and other forms of gibsmedat. We'll welcome you when that time comes.

>>130908533
yeah, but honestly what ideology isn't plagued with negative implementation or hypothetical dystopias. There isn't really a provably correct choice that wouldn't take millions of years of civilizations to prove.

>>130908637
They'll stop wasting money on police toys and section eight when the sun burns out and the sky falls down.

>>130908781
I'll take that at minimal taxation. Seems to have worked pretty well for the men before the cold war.

>>130908167
I asked a question in the first response that you haven't answered. Has the government fulfilled its role/function in ensuring healthy competition?

You're not arguing that "the function of ensuring healthy competition is necessary and beneficial." You're arguing that only the government can do that, which is simply not the case. Private law enforcement exists, private arbitration exists. The government is simply an organization of people, the idea that it has some inherent superpower that no other organization can achieve is nonsense. Why can't private entities serve similar functions? How is private law enforcement somehow illegitimate? It has nothing to do for fee-for-service, you're already paying for public law enforcement, the only difference is that you're being forced to.

I'll have to recommend you watch >>130903382


>It works the other way on unions, too. Ever hear of Matewan? Only time in American history when the (then Army) Air Force has been called up to drop bombs on American citizens. Because those citizens were basically slaves of the coal camp operators, paid in skrip, loading 16 tons and what did they get, all that jazz.
It's ironic for you to appeal to slavery, when you don't actually care whether people are enslaved or not so long as the government is the slave master.

>>130907591
>Except you have no retort to that.
States exist nearly everywhere. If a group of people try to form an anarcho-capitalist community, then the state around it will attack. States don't exist for the people, they exist for themselves, regardless of how "free" they make themselves look.

>Show evidence to back your statement, or at least make it probable.
You made the original claim, you show the proof.

>And yes, property as you see it is a SOCIAL CONSTRUCT. Respect for property is a social construct. Are you literally retarded?
Property is the use and defending of an object, whether it be land or a house. Nearly all animals have a sense of territory and personal space, so no, it's not a social construct.

>>130907874
>If you can prove that you are using that space, such as farmland, or for grazing of animals - and so long you can prove I am altering it's integrity, then it may be considered defensible.
There is no omnipresent being that determines what is defensibly or not. If I can build a fence around an area without no one objecting to it, then it's clearly mine. Obviously I can't claim an area 500 miles away if I have no means of defending it, so if no one else is occupying that place, you are are free to use it to your advantage.

Defense is our only claim to a property. There is no magical marker to objects that says who owns what.

>Otherwise, you're full of shit. Most Anarchists would laugh at your definition of private property.
>he says this, being a communist.

>>130907690
You're delusional. You're living in a fantasy world.


There's no real value in arguing against you because your ideology is a joke. You need everyone to agree to and comply to your laughable terms in order for your society to function at all.

Everyone is honest and virtuous just like in an idealistic communist society. Ideologues like you are exactly the cancer causing all of the problems we see today.

>>130908441
>under certain laws
laws which ancap is based around. If you're against people owning things, ancap may not be the ideology for you
>but a corporation isn't a real thing so it can't own things
it's a dumb technicality, and could be avoided by granting ownership to a figurehead , say, the CEO, under terms of a contract with the corporation where he has to act as it dictates

>i don't remember signing up
you didn't renounce your citizenship and leave, either, yet that's always been an option for those who feel the government goes against their wishes

>but the rest of the world has those terms too
so the current landowners should have to give up their rights because YOU can't find an alternative?
sounds like entitlement to me desu
it's not their problem, it's yours, you go do something about

>>130899100
Ancap is like communism, but in the otherwise of the spectrum. It's like communism because both are at odds with human nature.

>>130908119
>consider the government as a publicly owned corporation

this is actually a good idea. consider what we allow the government to do, then consider what corporations do.

has walmart ever sent its security guards outside walmart's property to kick somebody's door in and throw them in a cage for doing drugs? have they ever, while on duty, even went past the parking lot?

>>130909006
On the other side*

Ancap isn't my kinda jam because I fucking hate tollbooths, I'd rather not see another 10 pop up around the city here. No thank you.

>>130909010
if they owned the land that the somebody's house was built on it, simply granting them the use of it while respecting their terms, they would be entirely within their rights

it's their property, they never HAD to make it available

that person should be glad they were given the right to use it at all

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>>130899100
>"""anarcho"""capitalism
>has blatant hierarchies
Reminder that ancaps are literally retarded on a fundamental basis.

>>130908935
>you didn't renounce your citizenship and leave
Why do I have to leave? Why are we assuming the government is the rightful owner of the land? You can only attain land legitimately through homesteading or voluntary exchange, which the government has done neither. If I stole your car I'm in possession of your car, but I'm not its owner.

>yet that's always been an option for those who feel the government goes against their wishes
Depends on the country or government.

>>130907318
Most ancaps aren't utopians. We just think that trading inescapable tragedy for unnecessary evil is stupid. Creating to try mitigating unavoidable tragedy (like the disparity in human achievement) always goes bad — at the very least it goes bad by downplaying reality or pretening it doesn't exist, allowing it to get needlessly worse.

>>130907874
There are four ways to legitimately acquire private property.
>A priori ownership (i.e. your body and mind, because only you can directly control them, only you can be responsible for them... and as Descartes pointed out, your thought and existence are inviolably your own.)
>Things which you alone create with your own property (so if you made a sculpture from your own earwax, or if you came up with a poem, or if you made a chair using materials you own).
>Original appropriation (if you're the first person on X corner of the moon and the first person to claim ownership of it, it is yours... The age of original appropriation is basically over until we begin colonizing planets.)
>Voluntary exchange (you and a worker agree to exchange his creative output for money or something else you both deem a worthy trade, barter, you buy stuff by exchanging value for another form of value, or you accept a gift.)

All of these mitigate ownership disputes since they deal with property nobody but you has ever a claim on (a priori ownership, original sole creation, original appropriation) and therefore nobody would dispute your ownership of those things; and property acquired via consenting parties voluntarily exchanging goods (voluntary exchange) which, being acquired through voluntary exchange, nobody would dispute your ownership of those things either.

>>130909174
see
>>130905675

>>130908923
>You need everyone to agree to and comply to your laughable terms in order for your society to function at all.
>somehow wanting people to respect your property and yourself is a laughable term
State cocksuckers, everyone.

>It's like communism because both are at odds with human nature.
People treating people the way you want to be treated isn't against human nature, it IS human nature. Communism is against human nature because it expects people to be equal, and that they would work without incentive.

>>130908781
>>130908849
Reducing military/police spending is a less popular idea among conservatives but if we could get someone in the Oval Office who's even a little bit accountable we could start at least phasing out entitlement programs.

I mean, the debt is outrageous enough as it is.

Ancap attracts very selfish young white men that think they are better than everyone else and have above average IQs, but no self reflection or life experience. It's an ideology of naivety. Once you grow up, you feel silly about it.

>>130909102
then buy your yearly subscription so you can go through the fast lane they'll have set up for subscribers. the toll booths are for the out of towners who are don't have a subscription to the road system you use and just need a day pass

>>130909218
resorting to dumb technicalities again, do you really think the situation would be a-ok if the land was "legitimately owned"
>i don't want to respect the landowner's terms but i should be allowed to stay anyway because waaaaaah

>>130908890
>I asked a question in the first response that you haven't answered. Has the government fulfilled its role/function in ensuring healthy competition?

That's like asking, "has the government fulfilled its role in preventing murder?"

The only reasonable answer is "yes, albeit not perfectly." The government doesn't 100% succeed at preventing murders, and indeed sometimes even creates situations where on a small scale more murders happen than otherwise would. But overall, far few murders occur than would if there were no government effort to prevent them.

>You're not arguing that "the function of ensuring healthy competition is necessary and beneficial." You're arguing that only the government can do that, which is simply not the case. Private law enforcement exists, private arbitration exists.

Private law enforcement is not law enforcement, it's just tribal warlordism. It comes down to might, not right. If I have more money than you, I will dominate you totally. However bad law has gotten in that regard, the small guy still can't be completely walked on by the big guy in a courtroom, the small guy still has rights that will be respected no matter how mighty his adversary.

> The government is simply an organization of people, the idea that it has some inherent superpower that no other organization can achieve is nonsense.

The unique configuration and properties of government are its advantage over these other systems. Its a unitary monopoly on force, most capable of acting out of interest for the preservation of the whole, not a subset thereof. Again, you can cite specific cases where that falls flat, but in general, it holds true.

>It's ironic for you to appeal to slavery, when you don't actually care whether people are enslaved or not so long as the government is the slave master.

The idea that you can ever be totally free from the influence and demands of others in our world, full of billions of people, is laughably naive and childish.

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>>130899100
>yawn*

>>130908935
>ancap may not be the ideology for you
I'm a regular right wing conservative in america.
>technicality
I guess. I don't rebuttal for that.
>that's always been an option
I said it in another post: where are those people going to go? America specifically has best markets and opportunity thanks to the remnants of the free market that are still clinging to it. There is no better alternative. Why is it so wrong to seek a better system, or at least an improvement?
In other words, I want communists removed and free market returned. That is essentially in line with ancap, and I'll be a friend of any AnCap until the unnecessary taxation is removed.

>>130906065
Than you've just created a bunch of smaller governments that'll naturally merge into a single large one over time, ya dip.

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>>130900795
God damn, already cracking up after first paragraph.

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>>130909174
>he thinks anarchy is being without hierarchy
Anarchy is being without government. Non-government hierarchies are a-okay for anarchists.

Not only that, but there are non-hierarchical government models which supposedly a good anarchist wouldn't be against based on what I presume to be your retarded definition.

>>130909127
if there's a quantifiable benefit to the landowners for including those terms for renters, and they passed that benefit along to renters, then I think I'd live there. I don't use drugs. people who do can go pay higher rent elsewhere.

>>130907294
Fine, lets talk about diamonds. Diamonds are incredibly abundant and yet they are priced ridiculously high. Why is that? Because it's a heavily controlled market. No, not controlled by the government but play the diamond mine owners. These ten or twenty guys all work together to price fix and maintain "market sacristy". Whenever someone tries to get into the diamond business the guys already in business flood the market with cheap diamond so the guy that just bought the 700 million dollar diamond mine in Africa has to sell it to them for 100million to stop from going fully broke. So if your only problem with the "ridiculous hypothetical" I gave before only because no one would own a manopoly on cars they lets talk about price fixing rings. What is there to stop 5 or so companies from taking over the market and the price gouging everyone and being generally anti-consumer. What's to stop them from hiring an assassin, who would never say how hired him, because he wouldn't want to be black listed by that privately run credit bureau that will never be bought out or prone to corruption.

I'm not saying you need government to solve these problems, obviously because they exist and government doesn't do shit about it, but when there are no legal ramifications people will do what is best for them. It's sort of the problem with chaos fags on /tg/, order is just the end state of chaos. Order is put in place by the strong and subjugates, or protects hopefully, the weak. Chaos was strong enough to fight of order so it can get fucked, that's capitalism at its core, survival of the fittest.

The main problem I'm seeing with ancap is that it isn't feasible long term because someone is always going to think there way is better and start enforcing laws.

>>130909478
Don't bother giving that bait a (You), he'll grow up eventually.

>>130903525
Would you say that buying a private hospital is more expensive than getting health insurance? Yes, right?

Same applies in this case, a company that is dedicated to providing widgets would be better off spending their money in improving their product instead of burning resources on unnecessary war tools. But even if they were dumb enough to do it, they would still have to face other big ass companies. Do you think McDonalds will be okay with american airlines killing competition? What guarantees AA won't enter the burger business tomorrow? That's how CEOs think, that's what they're paid for, to foresee incoming threats. This creates a balance of power, where no one individual is stronger than even 5% of the rest of the population. Universal insurances will, always, be more powerful than exclusive client ones, just like Inditex is more powerful than the exclusive suit maker of an important CEO.

Also, you're imagining easy to squash low profile targets who out of their basement are starting to create a promising widget, but reality doesn't work like that, reality usually has countless investors, people with plenty of resources who have interests in your success, or directly people who have more money than you from other field, investing into widgets, and taking over your market because you're spending waaaaay too many resources into security.

Capitalism works by allocating resources adequately, the company that allocates them better, wins, you really need to contemplate way more possibilities before asserting war is good allocation of resources.

Also, in a free market economy products may come from anywhere in the world, you wouldn't need to have a violent domination over your city, you would need to have a violent domination over the world.

If after all these considerations you still think this is manageable, then you probably should think about how many states would be able to stop this company. They would dominate the entire planet.

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>>130909478
>Anarchy is being without government. Non-government hierarchies are a-okay for anarchists.
American """education""" everyone

>>130909688
they may achieve some equilibrium with each other, but there's nothing to stop them from crushing small competitors.

these investors aren't gonna invest in something when the know well it comes with the risk of bringing on mcdonald's full military might

>>130909335
>Private law enforcement is not law enforcement, it's just tribal warlordism. It comes down to might, not right. If I have more money than you, I will dominate you totally. However bad law has gotten in that regard, the small guy still can't be completely walked on by the big guy in a courtroom, the small guy still has rights that will be respected no matter how mighty his adversary.
You are experiencing some cognitive dissonance right now anon, how does anything you described not apply to the government? The government has more might than you so you have to obey, it has a monopoly on the legitimate use of force. The state of Oregon will literally take you from your home and throw you in a cage for collecting rainwater. How is this not might makes right? The small guy is repeatedly walked on by the government. You do know the government has the power to kidnap you, and send you to a foreign country to kill people correct? You know how angry people are about cops nowadays right? That they feel they're not getting proper protection from the government. If that were a private business, the consumers would have paid for services of another agency, you're forced to pay for police whose methods you may not even agree with. You made that entire paragraph and didn't even make an argument, just threw an insult.

>>130909174
>Anarchy
>Without archon
>Archon were magistrates (politicians) in ancient greece, not the potter with his apprentice, not the fisherman who had a helper, not the leader of the Peripatetic school, politicians.
>B-but anarchy means no hierarchies!

You had to make up your own definition that goes against the etymology of the word to try to claim your movement is anarchic. Lmao.

>>130909837
>left anarchism is the first definition therefore it's the only definition
Why aren't you a mutualist then, faggot?

I've been here since /new/ and consistently for years and years the libertarian and ancap threads have been high tier with regards to discussion and debate. Perhaps some of my favorite type of /pol/ content. I feel like we were better in the past because we were more inclined towards ancap and libertarian views. I can recall a time when the presence of fascist and national socialists were seen for what they were just merely ironic shitposters and raiders coming from stormfront.

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>>130899100
it is the same as communism. It'll fail cuz of the same reason - people(especially so called "elites") are greedy, sociopathic cunts.

I like the idea of freedom but we have to realize wealthy individuals will try to take it away one way or another.

>There should be little diplomatic government without, or hard to introduce legislative power
>People should be free
>strict anti-monopoly law with extremely high penalties
>maximum income
>national army and healthcare (today prices of health care are so high cuz physicians are greedy cunts)
>police as part of army
>Usury should be forbidden
>only national bank should be legal, and provide loans with really small interest.
>taxes as low as possible to pay for army and healthcare.
>?
>profit

>>130909891
Why did you ignore the part where I explained how small competitors will have an universal law insurance which will always be more powerful than an exclusive-client one?

>>130909972
>doesn't know the history of anarchism

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>>130909837
>he doesn't recognize any voluntary contracts that involve hierarchy
Good luck doing business when you can't be employed, because having an employer is hierarchical. Also good luck being for freedom when you invalidate voluntary contracts and kill people for making voluntary contracts you don't like.

Truly what a free society you envision.

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>>130909174
>postmodernism
>ever
>thinking all hierarchy including naturally occurring hierarchies should or could be destroyed
>thinking that all hierarchy could be destroyed without external force
>not realizing that enforcing anarchy is a self-evident contradiction
>not realizing that enforced chaos is self contradictory
>not realizing that civilization, creation, culture, and society are all hierarchical and ordered
>not realizing that enforcing anarchy and destroying order and hierarchy necessarily means destroying civilization, creation, culture and society
>not realizing that your beliefs make you an agent of destructive chaos
>not realizing that this makes you antithetical to creation and order

I urge you to reconsider... Because you've either not really thought through what your belief system entails, or you're actually consciously evil and must be purged. There are less destructive ways to be free, Anon.

>>130908107
No, government will not fix everything. I'm all for privatization and cutting government regulations but that's why we need to tweak the system and make it better. From my point of view ancap fixed government the same way cutting off your arm helps you lose weight.

>>130910147
>If we say blue is pink enough, it will be true

>>130910023
I wouldn't have a problem with NatSoc on /pol/ if they weren't a hivemind.

>>130910077
>people(especially so called "elites") are greedy, sociopathic cunts.
>he trusts one person or a small group of people to run an entire nation
That doesn't sound like an argument for statism, anon.

>>130910147
see
>>130910003

>>130909898
>You are experiencing some cognitive dissonance right now anon, how does anything you described not apply to the government? The government has more might than you so you have to obey, it has a monopoly on the legitimate use of force.

Sure, but the government works for the people as a whole, for the society as a whole. And that means protecting us and doing what we want. Their success is tied to our being satisfied with what they are doing, in a way that businesses aren't. A business can find ways to profit even if everyone hates them, just look at oil companies. A government finds that much more difficult, it is directly answerable to the masses, because the masses are how it maintains both legitimacy and its monopoly on force and power.

>How is this not might makes right?

Because the law makes right, and the people of Oregon have seen fit to enact and maintain that law. I think it's stupid, and I'd wager they do too, but not so harmful that its causing any great distress, so nothing is done about it. If it became a problem, if the law was abused and perceived as unjust, it would change.

>You know how angry people are about cops nowadays right? That they feel they're not getting proper protection from the government. If that were a private business, the consumers would have paid for services of another agency

That's naive. Private police forces work for those who pay them, unbeholden to public law. They aren't your employees, then, they're the employees of whatever bigwhigs have finagled their way into the check writing position.

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>>130910209
Hey, let the man be an unknowing anarcho-primitivist. It's funnier that way.

>>130910294
states are at least held accountable (in principle, if not perfectly in practice)

>>130910294
small government WITHOUT legislative power, which means they'll be only diplomats

>>130899100
Ancap without Hoppean physical removal, at this late stage, is just whistling on the way to the grave

>>130908923
How's Christchurch looking these days broski?

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>>130910209
>just human nature bro xDDD
You people would be laughable if you didn't impede the progression of humanity.

>>130910077
market economics factors in the flaws of man.

statism only works if there are people who are not motivated by self-interest. people like that don't exist, and certainly not in enough numbers to steer a government toward helping its people

and even if there was the motivation to use government well, a government is not sophisticated enough to operate efficiently.

a society has so many factors and is so dynamic that only a market economy has diffuse enough control to respond to changing conditions. it also is a system to continually reallocate who is in control of what.

>>130910393
No they aren't. Nation-nation violence is held accountable often, but most if not all nations abuse their citizens and nobody gives a flying fuck, because it is practically the nation's job to abuse their citizens. Meanwhile, a business's job is to provide goods and services and is kept in check by competition and government.

Now you'll say this is an argument for government, but what you'd be saying is an unaccountable institution is better to have than to not have since it makes an already accountable institution even more accountable, which, since we're using the metric of accountability, makes no fucking sense.

>>130910670
>everything's spooky 'cept daddy Karl

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>>130910378
If he continues spreading his mind-cancer of an ideology, enough of these guys could inflict unimaginable destruction on the world. Even in their current numbers, this belief system birthed all degeneracy.

From it came critical theory, marxism, egalitarianism, socialism/communism, and the Frankfurt school. Just the marxism and communism alone are responsible for AT LEAST 100+ MILLION dead and the near total annihilation of mankind in nuclear hellfire.

They are NOT a trivial foe.

>>130910670
Then you are lost.

>>130910393
>states are at least held accountable
By who, exactly?
>ancom defending statism
Really makes you think.

>>130910460
>small government WITHOUT legislative power
What the fuck is the purpose of having a state in the first place if it doesn't make any rules?

>>130910670
>You people would be laughable if you didn't impede the progression of humanity.
>says the communist

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LIBTARDISM

>>130909218
you seem like the annoying kind of asshole that tries to abuse every civil liberty you (think) you have

the government is the rightful owner because they say so and the people in the states with large tracts of government-owned land say so and due to the fact you are choosing to remain here and use public property that was paid for by the people and that the government built

the weird thing about ancaps is they say shit like
>You can only attain land legitimately through homesteading or voluntary exchange
even if they weren't voluntarily exchanged then who does it belong to exactly? Saying you do not recognize it's legitimacy doesn't mean that they do not control the land, either way the only way to take the land from america would not be through voluntary exchange. Unless you really think that Donald Trump or some anarchist president will just sign over all public land over to the people. Which I don't even get why is so important considering the fact our population is growing at such a short rate we have more houses than people to fill them, we have a good 18 million homes and only 3 million homeless people to fill them. Oops! That would be stealing to redistribute that property. They have to go to the rocky mountains to forge a hunter-gatherer lifestyle and frakk in yellowstone park because they were bought by Pepsi-Verizon(TM) and are forbidden to leave.

>>130899569
What if someone wants to be threatened or harmed? Someone could sell themself as a torture toy.

>>130910670
If you just let go of the equality pill you'd be a fucking bonafied Stirnite, and last time I checked, cutting down the tall people so that they are "equal" with the short people isn't progress, it's the exact opposite of progress.

Since you like free stuff so much, why not take our offer of a free helicopter ride? It's actually on us since nothing is free, but hey, that's just common sense, and we wouldn't want you to think too hard while you're plummeting- i mean flying through the air at 200km/h.

>>130910741
you're in favour no restrictions, with businesses being allowed to seize any power they can, over states which at least have constitutions, laws and democracy to limit their actions

>>130910840
their constitutions, laws, and ultimately the populace, of course
I don't like it but at least it's not as stupid as ancap

>>130910393
We'd have more sanctions and embargos than Kim Kong or the Cubans if that were the case.

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>>130909585
If you're taking a shot at DeBeers, the admittedly longest lasting cartel/monopoly in recent history, they were supported heavily by the government of South Africa.

On the topic of predatory pricing, it is a complete meme. What makes lowering prices "predatory"? Price cutting is a good thing and is how competition works, leading to consumers being able to afford more goods. You often cut prices when you can produce more efficiently so you have an advantage in the market. Not to mention if you drastically cut prices to beat out competition, you'll lose more money per sale assuming you're the bigger company. It's not an effective strategy.

Cartels are notoriously fragile, with DeBeers being an exception (although it was had outside help from a government). They break apart if one member believes its an unprofitable organization. They still are vulnerable to competition, new businesses can still undercut them if they try to profiteer. If some large company or a cartel is making a killing off of providing some good or service, it will attract other people to those industries. Its how capitalism allocates its resources, more people will go work at new tech companies because they are in demand and pay a lot. It ensures that some steady stream of competitors will always come to compete.

>Assassin
pic related

>>130910110
Who enforces that?

>>130909270
Your property is my property. Who decides who has the better claim?

I kill you and you don't have a claim.

>>130911065
>you're in favour no restrictions, with businesses being allowed to seize any power they can
And since everyone is either on their own or paying a business to protect them, the amount of power any one business can seize is small in comparison to the rapidly growing market flourishing while not under the reign of a robber-baron state.

And wow, mistreatment of citizens are inshrined in a code! Wow, hopefully they'll keep following that so I'm only mildly to super fucked in the ass by the state constantly based on which one I reside in! I certainly wouldn't want to be uber-fucked when the state decides to use its monopoly of force to grab more power (like let's say a business, oh wait, where did we hear this argument? Oh wait there's no competing "business" (state) to stand in the way for the citizens).

>>130910821
Sorry, they're so laughable I forget a lot of people fall for it.

>>130911265
Who enforces what?

>>130910240
in this metaphor, a body's organs/bones/etc. are the parts of society that are peaceful and productive. the fat is everything coercive, aggressive, and wasteful.

if you're 600 lbs, like america is today in this metaphor, then losing 20 lbs is definitely good. any move in the right direction is good proportionally to how large that move is.

we say we should be in perfect health. you say we should make any improvements we can. fair enough.

we should try to lose as much weight as we can in the short term. but gargantuan cuts are probably going to be necessary to avoid catastrophe in the medium-long term. and regardless of how realistic it is, we should hope and work to reach maximum health

>>130910941
>DAE take muh stand
>b-by sitting on my hands and making forum p-posts
go bum a moroccan

>>130911065
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Activities_Division

>>130910941
Traditionalism evolved. It's not arbitrary. It evolved because traditionalism was the mode of being most likely to create prosperity and survival in a world where everything you had needed to be earned, and there was no government/state safety net.

Single motherhood, as an example, only exists because the state is a viable alternative source for resources for a mother to raise an infant. She can get divorced — or simply never marry — and marry the state instead of a man to get the support she needs to raise an infant.

No state, no single motherhood. If you've done any research on single motherhood, you already know how much needless suffering and evil is caused by it, so you already know how much good would be done without it.

Government has removed the selection pressure for traditionalism. Remove government, the selection pressure returns, and traditionalism returns with it.

Can anyone give a me just a single reason as to why I shouldn't immediately dismiss ancap nonsense, on the sole basis of it effectively being a "fantasy" ideology.

If your ideology is based on defying human nature itself, then it's utter garbage.

Ancapistan = My ideal and non-tested version of communism

>>130911065
>their constitutions, laws
Oh, so the state accounts for itself for the terrible things they do? Do they give themselves a slap on the wrist? Don't be stupid. The government already tries to do shit against the constitution like spy on us or take away our means of defense. As long as they are in power, they can do whatever they want to do.

>and ultimately the populace
Most people didn't support National Socialist Germany, yet it still existed. Most people didn't support the USSR, but it still existed.

>>130911304
>Who decides who has the better claim?
Who ever can defend it.

>I kill you and you don't have a claim.
Yes, you are correct. That's why people tend to stick together and protect each other, so that it is harder to get kill individually. Literal apes have this concept down, yet you don't have a single clue.

>>130911304
An insurance contractor I hired to keep track of my belongings. They'll have detailed records, and will recover my property and fulfill my will of how I want that property allocated, while bringing the assailant to justice by doing whatever that economic block sees fit as a punishment for murder (the market standard, if you will), or a variation of that, based on company policy I had agreed to.

If they don't follow through with that, word will get out this insurance company doesn't do their job and will lose sales and be driven out of business by competition that does do their job.

>>130899100
>Why haven't you taken the Ancap pill anon?
There's no freedom in ancap. Just one more form of tyranny.

>>130911602
What tyranny is that?

>>130911523
What aspect of human nature does it defy?

I know wrapping your head around a new concept is hard, but do try to leave your statist preconceptions at the door if you're going to consider non-statist ideas from a critical viewpoint. Think through scenarios and don't just come up with shit you think will invalidate it, but also think up solutions to said scenario that will solve such conundrums.

Being too lazy to do that, give a bit more of a detailed shitpost here for ancaps to defend against.

>>130911602
What ideology do you suppose that isn't tyranny, then?

>>130899100
The one ancap I knew was a homeless tranny.

>>130911523
the most minarchist and market-oriented societies raced past the rest of the world

the most socialist societies killed tens of millions of people.

it seems to be proportional to how market/socialist they are.

we are extrapolating based on the data.

>>130911588
My insurance contractor has detailed records too and also more guns. Also, what authority does your "insurance contractor" have over me you fucking fascist?

>>130903811
> The state is a justified monopoly of violence
A company taking over police duty in a region would also be justified monopoly. There are two options. First, there is only one company being police or there are several. If one company is the police then the majority of citizens in that region must have decided on the laws and on what company to employ for that. Thus this company has a monopoly on violence. If there are several companies providing police services the citizens still had to agree on laws they all have to keep, thus which company does the violence is of no import, since the collective deciding the laws holds the monopoly and passed it down to the police companys. Oh, you think you can be the one guy in your street not paying in to the city wide police service?

> A business does not claim to be a geographical monopoly and owner above private property
Nearly every single business strives for monopoly or to grow its market share.

> A business is subject to competition
Not all businesses. Regional monopolys still exist. The only sector without monopolys is the service sector. Anything that needs resources can produce monopolys.

> A business is subject to incentives
A businesses primary incentive is profit. Profit does not equal well being off people. A state in theory has the primary incentive of well being.

> Consumers of a business have recourse
Tiny resources, negligible resources. The free market has its limits and is nothing more than a nice theoretical model. I'll explain. A company of sufficient size is not limited by mortal concerns, like child care, language barriers, commuting distance or old age. Therefore human consumers are at a disadvantage in the free market against such companys. The simple act of owning property means you're not as free anymore as before to take job offers from the competition. So if your company gives you shit pay, you may not be able to move, since you've built your life in that town.

>>130911523
>If your ideology is based on defying human nature itself, then it's utter garbage.
The two main things in ancapism is:
1. People be treated the way they would want to be treated
2. Free-markets are the best way to handle the economy

How in any way against human nature?

>>130910710
i agree.

But the reason why they fail is cuz they are allowed to fail. Or in other words they spend someone else money on someone else needs, and it isn't efficient. The other thing is the wealthy pay politicians to make a laws that will help them be even more wealthy, killing medium and small businesses, that isn't free market isn't it?

That's why we need anti-monopoly laws, and maximum income to make sure small and medium businesses will be the base of economy. the other thing is we do not really need big government and a lot of welfare.

today there is no billionaire that got money without usury and/or government help, and that's why it should be illegal.

>>130910840
>"What the fuck is the purpose of having a state in the first place if it doesn't make any rules?"

diplomatic and beurocratic. We need someone who will talk with other countries. And we doesn't really need new tax and new rule every month, legislative power should be in the hands of people and/or eventually in state/region hands with nation wide constitutian that can't be touched.

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>>130910821
>muh 100 gorillion
Even if the vast majority of deaths that occurred under the USSR and Maoist China weren't attributable to naturally occurring famine that would have happened anyway, capitalism can directly account for 10x that death toll.

R O A D S

>>130910353
>Sure, but the government works for the people as a whole, for the society as a whole.
Mindless platitude that is extremely debatable. Every sin or vice you can accuse a private institution of doing, the government has matched that and worse.

>It's right because the law says its right
Law is defined by the morals of the citizens, the law does not define morals.

>the people of Oregon have seen fit to enact and maintain that law.
Please, public policy does not necessarily reflect public opinion. If you went and asked everyone in Oregon if they believed that people should be sent to jail for collecting rainwater in reservoirs do you actually believe they'd say yes with any sort of unanimity? This argument especially does not work considering how uninvolved people are in their own democracy. How many people wanted the government to bail out banks? It's not enough to say that "I want the government to be good," because the system itself is flawed. If you centralize power/legitimate use of force into a singular entity (government) every scum on the planet will try to use that power to serve their own interests.

>That's naive. Private police forces work for those who pay them
That's exactly my point. This may come as a surprise to you but the middle class consumes almost all public goods/services. A private law enforcement agency would be beholden to the people they serve, because if the consumers do not like their services, they can freely leave and choose another. Consumers hold businesses accountable for their actions, where the same cannot be said about bureaucrats and politicians. For example, Chick-fil-a was boycotted heavily when an executive made comments against same sex marriage and their stocks crumbled. You only need force to make people buy things they don't want.

>>130911967
I'm assuming you aren't counting niggers as humans in this? If you are then you've clearly never met one.

t. Metro Atlanta resident

>>130911915
> fit as a punishment for murder

What murder? Who killed who? I don't know what you're talking about.

>>130899100
I don't believe in the nap. I drink your milkshake.

>>130900635
Sieg heil !
Once you taste NatSoc, there is no going back.
Honor, duty, health, friendship and a purpose.

>>130911734

When you have to write a book debunking a question like "What if someone wants to hire mercenaries to take your shit or erect a state?"

Then your ideology is bunk. People are collectivist by their vary nature and defying is like making an ideal version of communism: IMPOSSIBLE.

>>130912255
meant for >>130911588

>>130912289
>I don't believe in the nap

oy vey my police are going to arrest you as long as you don't pay them more. Then they'll arrest me.

>>130911915
>My insurance contractor has detailed records too and also more guns. Also, what authority does your "insurance contractor" have over me you fucking fascist?
They don't have authority, they have guns, also your insurance contractor isn't an insurance contractor if they center around shady claims of people who go around murdering people. The press and detectives still exist, and if people in my community keep being murdered, if not the first case, then the second or so on eventually someone is going to want to find out before they're next and look into the matter, find out you're insane and going around murdering everyone and find out your "insurance contractor" is lying out of its ass and really just your personal racket, this information will spread and you're going to have a sweet price on your head as everyone will be scared of someone threatening their entire society violating the NAP like it's going out of style.

Concerning the authority the insurance contractor, they have guns, and investigators showing you are the culprit of the murder, and contract to go through with murdering your ass for violating the NAP on my ass.

Anyway, this is all hypothetical and dependent on how voluntary contracts evolve to replace the state's necessary functions in order to provide the most profitable, stable market.

>>130911967

Because not even a week would go by before people have used your moronic ancap "rules" against you.

You can't even fucking answer the question of road maintenance, you useless twats.

>>130912011
>We need someone who will talk with other countries.
You don't need a state to manage communication with other groups of people.

>legislative power should be in the hands of people and/or eventually in state/region hands with nation wide constitutian that can't be touched.
So just dememecracy? Also totally unrelated but is English your first language?

>>130912097
>naturally occurring famine
T O P K E K
O
P

K
E
K

>>130912099
>he thinks the state is the only people to build roads

>>130912210
They can defend themselves, and can understand the concept of the NAP, at least I hope so. Self-segregation is perfectly compatible with ancapism. Form communities with like-minded whites. If a nigger tries to rob you, feel free to shoot his ass down.

>>130912289
Then you will get beat the fuck up then. No one cares what you believe in, you don't touch people's shit or threaten their lives without consequence.

>>130912382
>he needs police to defend himself
Top cuck.

How does ancap answer the accumulation of power? What's to stop the richest individual from buying an army to enslave everyone else?

>>130912507
>insurance contractor isn't an insurance contractor if they center around shady claims of people who go around murdering people

Of course they aren't. Justice prevails like in my superman comics. I'm not a 13 year old child with autism.

Who needs oversight when we have the virtuous human spirit?

>>130899100
most slaves (and yes i do mean most, i.e. way over > 50%) believe they were free.

same reason.

>>130912673
Blowin' my brains out with them facts you mental midget.

>>130912357
>When you have to write a book debunking a question like "What if someone wants to hire mercenaries to take your shit or erect a state?"
When you have to write a book to debunk the question, "How can you bestow someone to have the legal authority to do things you can't do?"

Then your ideology is bunk. As if having mercenaries take your shit is worse than having the state take your shit. In fact it's worse than the state does it, because they'll have bootlickers like you saying it's a-ok. At least the mercenaries don't act on the pretext that they are not only justified, but virtuous for taking my shit. The state does, and that is ten times scarier when I can just hire my own fucking mercenaries against mercenaries, but can't hire a state against the state I currently reside in and is taking my shit.

>People are collectivist by their vary nature and defying is like making an ideal version of communism
Hmmm, weird, so why doesn't communism work?
>Because people are individualist, dumbass!
Huh, wow, that really makes me think.

Maybe when you come here with a coherent belief on what human nature is, we can talk.

>>130912514
>Because not even a week would go by before people have used your moronic ancap "rules" against you
If I'm on someone's property, I must follow their rules, otherwise some sort of punishment is in order. How retarded do you have to be to not get this through your head?

>You can't even fucking answer the question of road maintenance, you useless twats.
>calls us useless
>believes the state is the only one to maintain roads
You and the people who use the roads maintain them, or you pay someone else to maintain them. Taxes already do this, as the government "maintains" the roads, but the problem arises when you still have to pay taxes regardless of quality of work, and for services you never use, such as roads all the way across the country.

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>>130912097
https://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/COM.ART.HTM
Over 100,000,000 dead on the low side.
https://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/NOTE1.HTM
https://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/DBG.CHAP1.HTM
Of 170+ million non-combatants killed by all governments in the 20th century, communists/socialists/marxists account for nearly two thirds.

You can hardly lay the blame at ancap's feet for a government killing someone. That'd be like blaming fire for all the drowned.

>capitalism can directly account for 10x that death toll.
>naturally occurring famine that would have happened anyway
I trust you'll provide a source for your claims as I have provided sources for mine.

>>130912849

Burger, you don't know my ideology.

You can't fucking debate worth shit, you strawman cunt.

ANCAP like communism is a good dipstick regarding zero point retardation in an individual.

>>130899569
Why can't you hurt someone else? There is no government to enforce laws? And don't say private police, because who gave them authority to hurt me? No one? Then why can't I hurt someone else in the first place?

>>130912357
Libertarianism has literally nothing to do with individualism and does not demand people atomize themselves. There's a difference between methodological individualism and practical individualism.

>>130912552
English isn't my first language, just look at flag.

We actually need diplomats to speak to other country president/king or whatever they send.

if it comes to democracy i do not really like it as well but individuals can't have too much power.

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>>130912639
I'm not talking about virtuous human spirit, I'm talking about information. Businesses have a business description. Fake business descriptions can be found out by people, like say anyone who observes you miraculously coming into possession of stuff you could have sworn was your neighbor Jerry's or your neighbor Nathaniel's, etc.

If there's one thing you don't understand about human nature, is that people are wary of fucking threats when they don't have a big daddy there promising to protect them, and it's a lot harder to get away with a crime when you aren't killing a fucking NEET with no ties, but someone well known in his community, who has business connections, insurance and defense contractors, and your imaginary scenario of murdering people left and right doesn't even fly in a fucking anarcho-primitivist society of close-knit hunter-gatherer groups, much less a robust anarcho-capitalist society of intricate business associations all trying to look after themselves and guarantee their safety through high technology funded by free enterprise.

The only one with autism here is you, edgelord. A market that easily has its workers killed off by some random shmozo with a defunct fake company isn't going to be the market that emerges because markets thrive on competition and shit like that is weeded out.

>>130912340
Tell that to Germany.
I've no respect for a man who loses a gamble with his people at the stake and still demands praise.

>>130913015
>Burger, you don't know my ideology.
Well, I don't have to know it to know you're retarded.
>You can't fucking debate worth shit, you strawman cunt.
Says the guy constructing strawmen left and right.

Is this your first day? Oh you're gonna have it rough, brainlet.

>>130912900

A lot of people will gain a whole lot of new property, some of it yours.

But if it ceases to be your property, then it no longer matter. And people would do that, because it's in our nature.

Ancapistan hinges on the entire world being destroyed for it to get any consideration. Niggers.

>>130913194
Meanwhile slander and defamation will be everywhere (much worse than today even). No one will know what's true or false in that fog. If anything, the richest will decide the truth.

The richest will also build armies and form governments.

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>>130913037
>capitalism
>extreme poverty

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>>130899100
How are anarchy and stable functional currency compatible concepts?

>>130913295

Fix the roads. There, your ideology is in ruins.

Hitler himself once stated that his ideals and ideology was not rooted in fantasy or wishful thinking, but human nature itself. And he was right.

Your super autistic off-shoot of libetarianism is quite possibly the most stupid shit I've ever subjected myself to.

And yes, NOW you know my ideology, you dumb cunt.

>>130913371
To add on to this: you'd have to brainwash everyone into your cultlike joke of an ideology for it to have a chance of surviving more than a week.

You only think about what would be good for you and not what is pragmatic or what works. You're an idiot.

>>130912099
You'll witness an interstate overpass collapse in your lifetime.

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>>130902898
>implying
The Austin May Day was shut down mainly by AnCaps who surrounded the antifags. We have always been here, as have most fringe right-wing ideologies.
Fuck off with your retardation.

>>130912900
> the problem arises when you still have to pay taxes regardless of quality of work, and for services you never use, such as roads all the way across the country.
How do you not benefit from a cross country road network? Do you have any idea how much commerce, innovation and general good comes from freedom of movement? Basis for freedom of movement is the means to move, like cars, transportation and roads.I swear, you Ancaps are all autists who can only process the immediate.

What services do you even want to opt out of in an Ancap state?

>>130913168
>We actually need diplomats to speak to other country president/king or whatever they send.
You don't need a state for someone to speak for your community.

>>130913298
>A lot of people will gain a whole lot of new property, some of it yours.
Property is defined by usage and your ability to protect it. In a event where the state falls, people will stick together, as a form of mutual insurance.

>But if it ceases to be your property, then it no longer matter. And people would do that, because it's in our nature.
The way you structured this sentence makes you look like a retard. Rewrite it.

>Ancapistan hinges on the entire world being destroyed for it to get any consideration.
Proof?

>>130903319
Trudeau is neither an anarchist nor a capitalist.

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>>130912357
>when you have to write a refutation to a common criticism, your ideology is bunk
??????

>>130913816
Tell me what defense your ""society"" has against outside forces who are not retarded and are organised.

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>>130899100
Capitalism with no pretense of sanity or responsibility? Are you retarded?

>>130903636
It's not a meme if it's true.

>>130913917
Hello, retard.

Foreign invasions that don't care about your fee fees. How do you deter them?

>>130902898
>408 total votes
Giant sample size, my dude.

>>130913816

Hence the use the word "book", you NEET.

If you can't properly answer a question like "What do you do against hostile outside" but have to dance around it like a moron, then your ideology is trash.

Hell, anything that's libetarianism or an off-shoot off it is by default nonsense.

>>130904054
We don't punch Nazis, you fucking retard. Cantwell literally marches by your side.

>>130906065
so replace a monopoly on defense, police, etc.
with several monopolies on defense, police, etc.

>>130913729

So if anyone manages to kill you, then it's completely fair game.

I've heard this before from ancaps, but I didn't realize this was actually one of your core tenents. I can now safely conclude without a hint of certainty, that your ideology is communist tier garbage, yet somehow far more impossible to implement.

>>130904385
DON'T GIVE YOUR MONEY TO JEWS.
Most banks are our enemies and I don't mind taking action against them.

>>130914194

Uncertainty*

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I like having a Government, friend; Totalitarian Libertarian for life.

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>>130913909
If you can't tell by my flag, I'm not an ancap, although I sympathize with them heavily and still believe that government is inefficient. I have to agree with David Friedman in that there is no clear way as to how an anarcho-capitalist society would defend itself from aggressive foreign powers.

>>130904594
>ancap
>marxist
>for white genocide
At this point you might as well be a D&C shill.

>>130913450
>Fix the roads. There, your ideology is in ruins.
How do roads get fixed in a state? The state taxes you (takes your money), and uses it to build and hardly maintain roads.

Literally nothing is stopping you and businesses from using that same money to pay for roads only you and those businesses use, and probably actually having a shit ton of savings because you aren't going through a money wasting bureaucracy hiring overpriced contractors because of nepotism or some past agreement.
>Hitler himself once stated that his ideals and ideology was not rooted in fantasy or wishful thinking, but human nature itself. And he was right.
Well, I guess he did show how invading other countries, getting your shitstomped, and being smeared as the worst person in history is a bad idea. About the only thing to learn from that is you don't want to mindlessly follow a state looking to fight on 3 different fronts at the same time and make an alliance with a nation on the other side of the world.
>Your super autistic off-shoot of libetarianism is quite possibly the most stupid shit I've ever subjected myself to.
Ever read any history books? Oh, try reading Mein Kampf, I'm sure you'll have to retract that statement. I guarantee. Human nature? Hitler was an idealist with a chip on his shoulder the size of poland and should have tried being a painter again. At least he had skill at that.
>And yes, NOW you know my ideology, you dumb cunt.
And I'm loving every laugh.

You actually fell for the Nazi meme, fucking lel.

>>130906013
Commies are best buddies with the state.

Final fucking question before I relegate every single ancap into the trashcan:

Me and some other collectivist want to band together, conquer other people's shit and eventually get a state rolling.

What do you? If your answer is just trying to band up with other ancaps to keep the status quo rolling, then don't bother.

>>130905640
Because there's niggers and communism.