Give me an argument against communism that isn't MUH STALIN

Yeah the IDEA of communism sounds great. The execution turns out to be a completely different story.

>>130826645
Because I am a human male, an individual, not some kind of a hive-minded weak ant.

I get my OWN ideas, I choose my OWN beliefs, and you CAN'T CHANGE THAT.

And because of it, I can just say I don't WANT your communism.

And if I DON'T WANT IT, how will you FORCE me to do it?

>>130826645
fuck off and die tankie

>>130826752
The "execution"? Funny you say that because it's never been properly executed. State capitalism? Sure. Socialism? Sure. Juche? Sure. Maoism? Sure. Communism? Never. These are different, separate ideologies that perverted the original Communist Manifesto's message for their own nefarious ends.

>>130826645
Please. Your ideology has fucked my country beyond repair. Keep this shit to yourself

>>130826956
Sometimes this shit writes itself. The general idea of communism (as told in the communist manifesto) is maliable. Doesnt matter which asshole communism comes out of, its still shit.
t. Every country that attempted it

>>130826956
There was intent to implement communism, the constant failure is a reflection of the failure of the ideology.
If you want a more purist argument then the idea that labour has an inherent value and that managerial positions (le evil burgerslzee) don't is retarded.
It is also based on a model of the economy that died in modern western countries a while ago: factory employment is now rare so much of communism in that sense is fundamentally irrelevant and outdated.

>>130826956
Yea it's never real communism is it

>>130826645
Stalin and gulags are all the reasons you need.


Now fuck off

>>130826645
It cannot resolve the calculation problem and thus will never be able to function. All its flaws stem from this one issue.

>>130826645 (OP) Buch of countries already tried communism and most of them are shitholes now.

Read Book V of Republic. All you need to know.

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>>130826645
>give arguement that doesn't include the contest global failures of applied communist policies

>>130828631
Which ones? This should be good.

Also
>failed
>Nazi flag
Hahahahaha eat shit faggot
>>130827709
>>130827675

Not an argument

>>130827562
Communism is needed in the post-automated world to ensure people don't fucking die. Factory jobs and the like are being replaced with robots soon meaning even more people will be out of work and suffering while the wealth continues to concentrate into the hands of a few, requiring redistribution of wealth to prevent chaos. Universal basic income or full blown socialism will come to the USA in our lifetimes.

>>130826645

Communism is unsustainable and offers to solve none of the problems that people have with capitalism.

If you really think the bourgeoisie won't exist in a communist society, you're fucking retarded.

Without referencing human nature?

I guess communicm is good system if you consider ants or termites?

>>130829451
>eat shit faggot

I thought the left is tolerant!

>>130829451
>Communism
>Needed to ensure people don't fucking die.
You don't know much about history do you?

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>>130826645
I don't like sharing with freeloaders.
I like hierarchies and the fact that I might have a chance to climb them (it's human nature).
I don't trust my fellow man to be as rational, intelligent or to make good sense of things to let things manage themselves, I don't trust "the workers" (low IQ) to manage everything on their own well. I like the idea of bosses and subordinates.
I don't want equality for everyone.
I don't believe in equal rights for women and men.
I don't consider shitskins to be my equal because they apparently belong to the worker class just like me.

How about you sell communism to me?
Convince me that Communism is good for me.

>>130826645
Bc it only works in a vacuum and completely disregards human nature

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>>130826645
>MUH STALIN MUH GULAGS MUH HUMAN NATURE. None of that is a valid argument...
Funny or sad ?

>>130826956

>The "execution"? Funny you say that because >it's never been properly executed.
>State capitalism? Sure. Socialism? Sure. >Juche? Sure. Maoism? Sure.
>Communism? Never. These are different, >separate ideologies that perverted the original >Communist Manifesto's message for their own nefarious ends.


No,your just retarded, and cant see that your own argument is saying that communism isnt possible.

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>>130826956

>>130826645
It can't compete against capitalism and it necessarily has to.

>>130826645
Would you put the drones in charge of a hive?

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>>130826956
Fucking this

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>>130826645
I'll take the bait
>no prices
It's impossible to allocate resources to productive ends without the signals like prices that show what your doing is profitable and thus valuable
>central planning
when wealth is reallocated to people equally and not based on productivity or value as dictated by price, it's impossible to run a market economy, so by necessity the economy is managed by central planners within the government. These planners are not chosen based on self driven skill or merit but rather for political purposes. And without the profit motive of doing things that are valuable to the economy to ensure ones own success, the planner has no reason to do what is productive and instead what is politically profitable ie. heavy military spending and gulags.
>market failure
When a business plan fails in a capitalist economy, the losses are taken by the business involved, this is an incentive for loss aversion and promotes survival of the fittest. When a plan fails in a centrally planned economy, you might not even know the plan is unsustainable until it drags the entire country down because all costs are public.

>>130826860
Answer this.
I don't feel the need to be dependent on the government.

>>130826645
>Find a flaw in the IDEA of Communism

People are not interchangeable, and not everyone's idea of happiness is the same. Communism assumes a UNIFORM system of values and preferences where none exists. It forces everyone to the same lowest-common-denominator standard.

It barely works even with small homogeneous populations because it drives nearly half the population up a wall.

>>130826860
exactly this
gommunism removes all self determination and is by definition for cucks

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>>130826645
Communism is counter to human nature. Giving absolute power to the government to control the means of production and everything else leads to power in a small group of hands which leads to corruption and plutocracies.

>>130826645
>MUH HUMAN NATURE
It has everything to do with nature, from the nature of totalitarianism, the process by which real communism is achieved, and economics. If you think communism and the process by which we achieve it is possible just because, human nature being unimportant, then you're a fucking idiot. Stop trying to dodge legitimate arguments that apply to the real world because it contradicts what writers said in favor of this utopian ideal

>>130830844
Good post

>>130826645
>Give me an argument against communism
Doesn't work.

>>130833078
>It has everything to do with nature
human nature*

>>130826645

>Give me an argument against Communism

>Don't use legit arguments against Communism.

>>130826645

No those actually all are valid arguments you fucking retard.

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>>130826645
Communism is anti-freedom and therefore cancer. It's totalitarian, same as fascism.
I reject any third party coercing me into doing something that is not of my own volition.
Kill yourself commie scum.

>>130826956
>leave house to acquire food
>guy breaks in and occupies it
>private property doesn't exist, so he's your new roommate now

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>>130826645
>Give me an argument against communism that isn't MUH STALIN MUH GULAGS MUH HUMAN NATURE.
I find it funny how Stormfags try to use this argument when they themselves think Hitler's genocide of Jews and Eastern Europeans was justified

>>130826645

NOBODY WILL WORK THEIR ASS OFF FOR THE SAME FUCKING REWARD AS THE SLOB WHO DOES NOT WORK AT ALL

>create vast all powerful all controlling state
>administers everything from military to how many grams in your tooth paste
>the people are complete automatons
>eventually when the state has become efficient as only true centrally planned economies can become the state will dissolve

lmfao. This is the best part of the communism idea i think. These commies think once everything has been established to run smoothly this great all powerful state that theyve created will simply wither away and disappear. Thats right, the comrades and the party members will simply give up their hotels and limos and just slowly return to working the fields with the common man. All that power accumulated will just be relinquished without a second thought.

If you thought commies were stupid about human nature regarding the people who they wish to control you should see what they think of their own nature. They well and truly believe they would walk away from Stalin type power and just leave it be as would anyone else. That such an accumulation of power would never be abused. I wonder what its like to think so low of others that you must control how much toilet paper the fuckwits use but think so highly of yourself that you will with ease give up the power of life and death to go grow potatoes.

>>130834144
Why do people hate being killed by their enemies yet love killing their own enemies? This is very confusing.

>>130826645
>Give me an argument against communism

It is led by the communists. How can workers revolution by headed by people who doesn't know shit about work.

>to each according to his ability, to each according to his needs

That is great since my skill is zero in communist regime and my need is eight room mansion, two cars, pasture the size of soccer field. What now communist?

>Value of labor is decide democratically amongst workers

Another great news, since me and my work party had a vote, and we voted that a labor value of a communist is zero. Sucks to be you, eh?

If under glorious communism I'll go to a guy and offer him my labor and he accepts, who is going to stop me in your classless society?
Who is going to force me to work in your classless society? Perhaps some class of enforcers?

>>130826645

What, like finding a flaw in the idea of unicorns? They don't exist, retard.

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>>130826645
There's never been a successful communist society.

>>130826645

>we pretend to work, they pretend to pay.

An attitude I heard from a former russian. Wise words.

>>130827438
>My "country"

Hohol pls

>>130835163
B-b-but what about Catalonia? S-so w-what that there were forced conscription in that classless society, y-you bigot!

>>130834758
>to each according to his ability, to each according to his needs

What happens to communism when someones need becomes a bigger liability than someones ability is an asset is what i want to know.

>>130835247
>comrade, is it true the americans have more cars than us
>yes it is comrade, but know that we here have more parking space than the americans

>>130826645
Communism can't run an economy with central planning: billions of types, prices, quotas and actors in transactions cannot simply be decided by a single figure or authority. It's phisically impossible and even if it was it would be totally inefficient due to the lack of interest.
Now wisen up or shut up, just by what you are typying you're already a waste of time and space.

>>130835247
Dude, you have no fucking idea just how true that statement is, seriously.
The reason why there were always shortages of everything was that the enlightened communist leader with proper academic education has come up with a plan and a target quota, and we just did sweet fuck all and the dude who was supposed to catalogue those thing just wrote that we fulfilled the plan above the quota. Why the fuck should he give a shit. there was notning in it for him. And so it went in the same way all the way up, where there was some communist party cocksucker, who didn't have any clues about the workings of the business, so he just swallowed all that a guy who didn't give a shit told him.

>>130829451
"Communism is needed in the post-automated world to ensure people don't fucking die."

Oh, would they be applying the lessons learned from the Holomodor?

>>130826645
Venezuela

>>130835750
>What happens to communism when someones need becomes a bigger liability than someones ability is an asset is what i want to know.

The answer is a barrel of a gun held by a party hack in this classless system.

Do't expect answer from him. Communism has a foundation on a malleable intent (seize, not create, the means of production) and then it expects the people to by flawless paragons of virtue who will never take more than they need. Don't ask me how is that supposed to work.

>>130836697
>barrel of a gun

It always comes back to this. For once id just like a commie to admit it. Just come out and say yeah my plan is going to involve mass murder and enslavement to make it work. The way they dance around the topic is what shits me. You know it. I know it. They know it. Only one person is willing to pretend like it wont come to that though.

Ill respect the commie who advocates for gulags before i respect the commie that says it can work without force. Ones ideas will be rejected immediately, the other leads to the mass death and starvation we saw last century.

>>130826645
COMMUNISM DOESN'T WORK UNLESS YOU HAVE A POST-SCARCITY ECONOMY AND UNLIMITED LAND AND ALL PROPERTY LOOKS LITERALLY THE SAME AND ALL FOOD TASTES THE SAME AND EVERYTHING IS THE FUCKING SAME

YOU FUCKING IDIOT

Communism is for inferior men. And Communism is an inferior ideology. It already didn't survive the natural selection of human history. So you fail commie scum you fail and now EXTINCT.

Also. NO INTERNET in communism. Since no innovation can ever come from "Seizing" nothing.

>>130837567
>go on /pol/ or /int/
>venezuelan posters

they might be starving to death and dying from simple infections but no internet isnt something i can level against them

>>130826645
communism is a complete failure and you're a fucking idiot.

>>130826645
I like private property, money, and bosses. So ya.

it's because of people like you

>claim communism works
>if it fails it wasn't real communism

fuck off literally.

>>130826645
Communism can't work because it defies basic human nature

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I'm not a fuckin statist

>>130826645
Nigger detected. Sage

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ANCAP and communism are equally retarded.

>>130826956
>the original Communist Manifesto's message for their own nefarious ends.
I've read the Communist Manifesto and can tell you haven't because Communism is already here.

The book can be summarized quickly with three main ideals as laid out by Marx and Engels:

1. Establish a minimum wage.
2. Do away with personal property. The state divvies it out.
3. Centralize capital. The state divvies it out.

Whether or not this is what people are reading on some left-leaning websites out there or from their radical buddy, I don't know. But this is what's in the book.

1. So for number one, there's really not much discussion to have. We can argue about raising it or not, but this is already a done deal. There is a federal minimum wage in place.

2. So, somewhere in the neighborhood of fifty percent of Americans have ownership in their home, but by closer examination, less than one-third of people who have ownership in their home (remember that homeowners are only about half of people living in homes) actually own their home free and clear. (linked) So, the vast majority are owned by the bank. And even that isn't the whole truth, because who gets the house if the property taxes aren't paid? Of course, the state.

3. The United States IRS collected $2.9 trillion in 2013. This probably makes the United States government the largest organization in the history of Earth x1000. It doesn't get much more centralized than that.

So if you're following along with me, you probably already know what I'm getting at. We have essentially satisfied all three of the requirements of Karl Marx's utopia. So why are kids marching in the streets? Have they not read the book? We're essentially already there.
http://www.doctorhousingbubble.com/americans-that-own-home-with-no-mortgage-free-and-clear/
The USSR was Communism as well, it collapsed cause of Reagan's strategy of increased military spending in the hopes the USSR would spend more in response, so much that it collapsed.

>>130826645
If I take a log I find in the woods and carve it into the most beautiful wooden statue you've ever seen by utilising my time and talent, I have created something of unique value and no just law of God's or men can say that my creation now belongs to the community. If it is taken from me and I can no longer gift it to whomever I choose or barter it for a piece of fucking cheese, I'll just not bother creating anything of value after that.

>>130826645

Muh economic determinism

>>130826645
The biggest problem with communism is that, whichever niche variation you might support or fight for, in the end stalinism will prevail because of strength in numbers etc. So yeah, the gulag argument is pretty valid, since any gommie xD revolution would inadvertently lead to gulags.

>>130838883
Page 84:
>"The average price of wage labour is the minimum wage, i.e. that quantum of the means of subsistence which is absolutely requisite to keep the laborer in bare existence as a laborer... "
>"All we want to do is do away with the miserable character of this appropriation."
Page 92:
"...this cannot be effected except by means of despotic inroads on the rights of property, and on the conditions of bourgeois prodiuction."
Page 93:
>"Centralisation of credit in the hands of the state."
>"Centralisation of the means of communication and transportation in the hands of the state."

>>130826645
>none of this is a valid argument because I say so
Fuck off fgt, kys

>>130836168
During the cold war russia wanted to develop the most efficient diesel engine the problem was their quota was measured in tonnage so to get around it workers just welded lead bars to a half assed diesel engine to avoid the gulag

This thread has taught me much of the state of this fucking board.
It's all emotional. I use to be a capitalist... well.. I might now take a sample of the "REAL red Pill"

>>130826645
>Give me an argument that isn't the actual repeated failed states which caused catastrophic socio-political-economic scenarios resulting in hundreds of millions of workers dying in just the span of five to ten years multiple times

Also, what are you sliding, faggot? sage

>>130840511
Do these arguments not fit your vision of communism?

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>>130826645
Humans just aren't equal. Thus, an ideology based around equality is doomed to fail.

There have always been wolves and sheep. There always need to be wolves and sheep. When there is only wolves and no sheep, wolves will start eating eachother and all starve eventually. When there is only sheep and no wolves, sheep will grow weak and gluttonous. When they breed so much the environment won't be able to sustain them, they will all perish.

Communism cannot be applied

>>130826645
Didn't think we had to say much after its failed and imploded on itself everywhere its implemented. Even softer versions of communism (socalism) end up bank rupting its own country and creating disgusting totalitarian regimes. Overall it just doesn't work. It sounds cool on paper. Like yea everyone lives a good life awesome man I dont think anyone here doesn't want someone to live a normal stab life. But it just doesn't work out that way.

>>130840943
Doesn't fit my vision of "intellectual right wingers"

Don't worry, I've been feeling this way for a little while now.

>>130841026
t. Fat American

>>130841250
Yeah nah

>>130840511
You didn't give any starting point. Cuba and China aren't so bad and they're communist in name. However pushing to implement international communism as foreseen by Marx doesn't work, proclaiming that as your objective is a declaration of war on the rest of the world.

>>130826752
Garbage. The idea of communism is flawed. Inherently only benefits less than a 1%

>>130826645
>Find a flaw in the IDEA of Communism
Fine. You be the first person to give me all your shit. I need it more.

We'll work out the details later, comrade.

>>130826645
it doesn't work

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>>130826645
>Give me an argument against gommunism that doesn't prove gommunism is bad

Getting reeeaaal retarded in here.

>>130841131
what exactly did you expect? A proper rebuttal against communism? Open a history book and its already done. No one here was ever going to come out with some new reason as to why it just doesnt work. Its been done plus OP cried about not including XYZ reasons despite them being the main reasons it fails

>>130841404
I'm not OP, but we currently live in a GLOBAL state of International Credit. The world is currently 70 trillion dollars in debt, money no longer exists.

Keynes was the starting point, he implemented slow-Socialism.

Do I believe Communism can be implemented through a forced revolution? Not painlessly.

But I believe that the closer we get to having mixed parties favoring social services, and focusing on larger issues such as diseases, universal expansion, technological advances, we will see more and more of an organized system. Which will eventually lead to some form of Global Socialism.

>>130841826
Ad Hominem.

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>>130826645
Don't need to, you are subhuman and unworthy of discussion.

>>130841545
I never understood this "sounds good in theory" meme. That all people are equal and removal of incentive to work and central planning for everything is insanity. This meme needs to die

>>130830290
This.
"Paris gommune"
"Revolutionary kekalonia"
"Free hohol territory"
All utterly BTFO by capitalists

>>130826645
The idea of equality utterly disgusts me. I want to be something more than someone else. I want hierarchy and capitalism, where you can effectively climb the ladder of succes. Also, I want to choose the party that will rule my shithole in the next 4 years. It my be shit, but I know I had my choice.

>>130826645
That it ignores basic human nature, and as such will fail when applied to actual human beings is a perfectly valid argument.

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>>130841835
You're exactly what Yuri Bezmenov refereed to as
"A Useful idiot"

"YOU" brother komrad will not rise to power or enjoy any amazing fruits and goodies from this "world communist order" hahahah

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4kHiUAjTvQ&t=69s

>Don't believe the Ex-High ranking KGB member?

oh well

>>130841835
Youre right and its terrible. We've had the forced implementation of communism and it was rejected, now theyre trying the backdoor and slowly going through the institutions and its working amazingly. People are more and more for government dependence than ever before. Government debt is out of control and will never be paid off. Communism is coming once more but this time it has slowly withered down the person into walking into the gulag himself rather than at gun point.

Communism lost the battle but it is winning the war

>>130841835
I think Marx had a somewhat intuition about the inevitable results of industrialization but all the attempts to push for those results are misguided.

International cooperation is important and everyone wants it in theory but it only really works when national sovereignty is respected. The EU for example is too global and abstract, it does not represent my interests unlike my elected national government.

>>130827496
do you mean malleable?

>>130842531
>a somewhat intuition
Somewhat correct i mean, he wasn't entirely wrong which is why he appeals to people.

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>

>>130826645
It has a very painful introduction to any country that results in many people getting killed, fleeing, or imprisoned, with the wealth leaving the country, and many of the revolutionaries getting killed/ exiled by the new powers that be in the country, creating a new government that is actually worse than the one that proceeded it.

>>130842531
Why does it work when National Sovereignty is respected?

What rights does a nation have? What stops other nations from eating another? History has proven time and a time, that National Encroachment is unstoppable. Especially in Europe.

What has stopped the Europeans from ripping eachother a part other than the European Unions Currency, and Parliamentary Pacts?

We have peace because war is a National Era philosphy.

Wars that exist a proxy and benefit the nations infrastructure somehow, but no nation (besides Russia) is willing to oppose the stance.

The idea that Iraq was purely over oil is also falsified, it's about alliegence. They could not be trusted with the American 51st State (Israel) being destablized because every nation around them is stuck to such things as National Ideology and Ethnic Pride. That the land there is bound by blood and religion.

I disagree with the Israeli and Zionist state all together, it has to be diversified or destroyed. The age of ethnostates died with the second World War.

>>130843215
You smell like a canadian

>>130826645
The flaw in IDEA of communism is that humans aren't perfect and the system doesn't take that into account, you stupid fucking cunt, now go die without food or toilet paper.

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>>130826645
here, this tears down your gay manifesto

>>130829451
Stalin called he wants his useless, outdated ideology back

>>130843215
A real nation is united in their common goals and ideals based on their local history. A confederation like the EU imposes ideals and goals on it's members to serve it's own abstract goals and statistics. The burger and leafland are confederations not real nations.

We have wars today because the modern post ww2 western economies run on war, even most of the aluminum smelted here in Iceland eventually find it's way into bombs and jet fighters etc. As soon as the Soviets collapsed another boogie man was found to sustain the global US dominated economy. Before that the Soviets relied just as much on fear and war to hold together their economy.

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>>130826645

Communism is based on marxism / socialism, but people does not always want a communist system, even though communism is a fixed system. Thus is becomes oppressive.

Authoritarianism is not democracy, and therefore you have no say in any political matters, even though you think you do.
It's all about the politicians in charge.
So if you worship politicians like gods then communism may be for you.

>>130844664
And what determines a nations united goals?

Confederations are just constitent of salute smaller nations. Are you stating that Alberta and British Columbia are exactly the same because Canada itself is not representative of a whole nation?

They are abstractly different in culture and way of life.

Same goes for the United States.

Each state is individual in it's heritage, but they are united under one federalized government with the same goals as the rest of the Western World.

Same as the MAJORITY of people in the European Union.

Each European nation has it's culture, but they have proven through history, that their sovereignty is a threat to other European nations.

>>130826645
So you want people to ignore science and outcomes and argue on the terms of your autistic ideology? To accept its newspeak without question.

Marxism is just as wrong a Freudianism or Objectivism. All these ideologies are Jewish. No other argument is required. All Jewish ideologies belong in the bonfire of pseudoscience.

>>130846371
>they have proven through history, that their sovereignty is a threat to other European nations.
Not for the last 70 years, 50 of which the EU was small and they had full sovereignty. Europe should be economically interlinked partly to avoid war like it was for 50 years but national sovereignty is the most important thing you have as an individual besides your own freedom. I don't expect burgers or leafs to understand that though.

>>130826645
>when central planning already lost to free markets 30 years ago but muh not real cummunism

>>130826645
The idea is good in theory, but in reality it's destined to fail because of human nature

>>130826645
>Find a flaw in the IDEA of Communism
More power in fewer hands.

>>130826752
>the idea of having my things taken and given to somebody else sounds great

I beg to differ.

The best form of communism is national socialism so far.

Really makes you think.

>>130847520
If ~human nature~ takes care of it on it's own, then why the CIA and USA made sure to sabotage every socialist nation?

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Saying that communism has never been tried properly in the 50s was like standing in front of the Wright Brothers after their triumphant return from Kitty Hawk and screaming that the wings strapped to your arms is a much better way of flapping if only people would flap hard enough.

Saying it today is like screaming the same incoherent shit about wings strapped to your arms in front of an international airport.

>>130826645
> make an argument against communism without actually using all the currently existing negative examples of its implementation or why it isn't compatible with human nature

Wow ok OP you got me there wtf I love communism now. Please starve me to death.

>>130826645
Until they invent a form of communism that doesn't involve central planning, it will always fail. The Chinese are in the right ballpark, but they are only coasting along. The wheels will fall off of their little red wagon soon enough too. Maybe soon will be the day the world is rid of socialists out side of a classroom.

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ayn rand
yaron brook on youtube
individual rights and property are violated by commnuism and socialism and fascism and nazi

>>130826645
>Find a flaw in the IDEA of Communism
It doesn't promote progress as much as capitalism does. This often a "rational" argument when commieboos have to come up with anything other than buzzwords and "m-muh means of production". And it's wrong lmao

>>130826645
You don't have a right to my labor.

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>>130826645

>>130826645
>we are progressing towards it
stopped reading right there

>>130826645
it ignores the basic laws of nature and survival of the fittest

>>130838883
>>130836697
>>130834401
>>130830844

Game, set and match.

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>>130826645

Dont need to because you aren't interested in one. Were not going to have arguments with these people. Were going to stop them from genocide.

sage

Back to your marxist circle jerk shithole, antifa.

>wanting an centralized society and enslavement
Nothing is wrong with it if you're a masochistic retard.

>from each according to his ability, to each accordong to his need
Literally slavery.

>>130826645
Because the boys at the top will always be corrupt and the central bank will always be run by jews.
It's also always enforced by violence and lack of incentive and corporate growth ruins the economy as the property of businesses and the rich is seixed and they flee taking their wealth with them.
that in turn ruins the buying power of the country at which point importing food/oil/gas etc becomes unsustainable and the people starve to death.
Good enough reason?

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>>130830533

You forgot to change your flag, Moshe.

communism will be valid when all communists will be killed.
The idea of communism means that there is someone smarter that thinks for the people. And that is elitism

>>130826645
Communism Doesn't Work.
Communism Has Never Worked.
Communism Will Never Work.
Communism Doesn't Work.

>But.. But..

Shhhh! Communism. Doesn't. Work.

Those are the Facts.

>>130849976

Not someone, but machines can purge corruption for us.

>>130848586
easy
there are tons
communism violates individual rights
never has been justified

People get corrupted, its the only reason communism failed and thank god it did.

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>>130826645
I don t really know anything about communism and I came from time to time on /pol/ just to read the news but I will try to answear this one. Everyone having acces to the same shit (if the state gives you acces to it) would determinate the humans to have no desires to do more or to make progres to better their life. The single thing that I belive in is meritocratism.
Also sorry 4 my english.

>>130826956
>Funny you say that because it's never been properly executed.
and it never will because it is a retarded logically-flawed pseudo-idea

>>130826645
uniform, drab, boring, communism has hideous aesthetics, which tells you about its spirit

>>130826645
the nose knows.

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Unless Jesus/God comes out of the sky,

>and gives us all Fruit Trees that are free food and medicine, wipes away every tear, destroys sin and kills evil;

IT WILL NEVER WORK.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kqj9R19rmc
TOTALITARIAN POWER STRUCTURES CORRUPT ABSOLUTELY

www.riggedit.com

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>>130826645
" To begin with, what are the “economic” consequences? First—and this is the immediate general effect of all types of socialism—there is a relative drop in the rate of investment, the rate of capital formation. Since “socialisation” favours the nonuser, the nonproducer, and the noncontractor of means of production and, mutatis mutandis, raises the costs for users, producers, and contractors, there will be fewer people acting in the latter roles. There will be less original appropriation of natural resources whose scarcity is realised, there will be less production of new and less upkeep of old factors of production, and there will be less contracting. For all of these activities involve costs and the costs of performing them have been raised, and there are alternative courses of action, such as leisure-consumption activities, which at the same time have become relatively less costly, and thus more open and available to actors. Along the same line, because everyone’s investment outlets have dried up as it is no longer permissible to convert private savings into private investment, or because the outlets have been limited to the extent to which the economy is socialised, there will therefore be less saving and more consuming, less work and more leisure. After all, you cannot become a capitalist any longer, or your possibility of becoming one has been restricted, and so there is at least one reason less to save! Needless to say, the result of this will be a reduced output of exchangeable goods and a lowering of the living standard in terms of such goods. And since these lowered living standards are forced upon people and are not the natural choice of consumers who deliberately change their relative evaluation of leisure and exchangeable goods as the result of work, i.e., since it is experienced as an unwanted impoverishment, a tendency will evolve to compensate for such losses by going underground, by moonlighting and creating black markets.

>>130826645
keks, bro russia is not even communist any more cause it never works you fucking idiot
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMGZtkMS3sQ

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Conversely; in hateville...theblackpill:

60 MILLION DEAD in Soviet Union
100 MILLION DEAD in China

Go fuck yourself to death, tell me how it goes.

Probably still a better idea than asking the world to break out in assholes and shit itself to death.

>>130826645
Stalin was pretty based desu

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>>130826645
>Give me an argument against communism
Eastern Europe.

>>130826645
Mao

>>130852933
Cont
" Secondly, a policy of the socialisation of means of production will result in a wasteful use of such means, i.e., in use which at best satisfies second-rate needs and at worst, satisfies no needs at all but exclusively increases costs. The reason for this is the existence and unavoidability of change! Once it is admitted that there can be change in consumer demand, change in technological knowledge, and change in the natural environment in which the process of production has to take place—and all of this indeed takes place constantly and unceasingly—then it must also be admitted that there is a constant and never-ending need to reorganize and reshuffle the whole structure of social production. There is always a need to withdraw old investments from some lines of production and, together with new ones, pour them into other lines, thus making certain productive establishments, certain branches, or even
certain sectors of the economy shrink and others expand. Now assume—and this is precisely what is done under a socialisation scheme—that it is either completely illegal or extremely difficult to sell the collectively owned means of production into private hands. This process of reorganising the structure of production will then— even if it does not stop altogether—at least be seriously hampered! The reason is basically a simple one, but still of the utmost importance. Because the means of production either cannot be sold, or selling them is made very difficult for the selling caretaker or the private buyer or both, no market prices for the means of production exist, or the formation of such prices is hindered and made more costly. "
-Cont

>Argue against me but don't use valid points
Fuck me, you are scum. Communism is flawed on the notion that all humans are equal which they are not through genetic varioation and variability in life. Communisms aim is to keep poor laborers as poor laborers (see dekulakization), while indoctrinating children to hold ultimate loyalty to the party. Time and time again communism has shown to utterly fail in the ability to distribute the means of production to all people under its rule, while being unable to allocate its resources for the betterment of society and its people. No ideology has committed more unnecessary deaths and immesurable human suffering.

>>130826645
The ideology works, you just can't apply it to humans because we aren't ants.

There needs to be some room for investment and risk taking, not all people with $$$ are bad people. Also the whole workers revolution has been hijacked by obnoxious college students and non whites who are either poor because of biological and or enviormental factors and aren't even working or lower middle class usually and even vote for the (((bourgeoisie)))more.

>>130853041
/thread

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>>130853511
" But then the caretaker-producer of the socialized means of production can no longer correctly establish the actual monetary costs involved in using the resources or in making any changes in the production structure. Nor can he compare these costs with his expected monetary income from sales. In not being permitted to take any offers from other private individuals who might see an alternative way of using some given means of production, or in being restricted from taking such offers, the caretaker simply does not know what he is missing, what the foregone opportunities are, and is not able to correctly assess the monetary costs of withholding the resources. He cannot discover whether his way of using them or changing their use is worth the result in terms of monetary returns, or whether the costs involved are actually higher than the returns and so cause an absolute drop in the value of the output of consumer goods. Nor can he establish whether his way of producing for consumer demand is indeed the most efficient way (as compared with conceivable alternative ways) of satisfying the most urgent consumer needs, or if less urgent needs are being satisfied at the expense of neglecting more urgent ones, thus causing at least a relative drop in the value of the goods produced. Without being able to resort unrestrictedly to the means of economic calculation, there is simply no way of knowing. "
Hans-Hermann Hoppe 'A Theory of Socialism and Capitalism'

>>130852642
Your not wrong.

Other obvious shittery including..
Building walls to stop people escaping, because if there is one thing about Paradise is that you have to make people enjoy it.

And the flip side, Communist nations have ever in the history of forever! Has had to deal with an immigrant problem, because obvious paradise for all people is something you want to avoid at all cost!

KEK! Comrade logic!

>>130853687
This too bruh marx's theory of primitive communism wasn't complete accurate.

Communism was created by Jews. That says enough.

>>130834082
This, the ideology works, not just in us Humans because we are capable of individual, free, different thought.

We aren't fucking ants, mindlessly doing what to fucking do all in the orders of a supreme leader.

This is why the military requires a lot of training to get you into decently disciplined form, because we are more than capable of independent individuality and complex thinking.

Nobody likes constantly taking orders and being told what to do and how to live all the time.

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>>130826645

>>130829451
Maybe there's just too many people you idiot! Communism doesn't work because it always turns into a dictatorship. ALWAYS. Capitalism at least gives you a small chance at making it. With Gogi those of the only people that live well are the heads of the collective distribution, The people that are supposed to monitor collectivization and redistribute it equally... it just doesn't fucking happen humans don't work that way, human nature is a valid argument it's an existential one

>>130826645
Because the labor theory of value is fucking flawed and ignores the importance of supply/demand. Neck yourself tankie trash

>>130855073
And also if you give the option to just sit around and do nothing, most people will do that what's the point of busting your ass if you reap the same benefit doing nothing. Which is why communism has to resort mass arrest and forced labour if you think it's just Stalin you are an idiot, which is why you believe and communism

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fw-a_jI-mA8

>>130826645
because ancap makes more sense you economic illiterate

>>130829451
>sage
OP abandoned thread 4 hours ago.
/thread
but as long as i'm here, centrally planned economies prevent price discovery which leads to artificial scarcity, famine and inevitably, collapse.

>>130828253
>>130853743

>160 replies already
>no leftist/commie has responded to these two

kek

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>>130826645
You want to take money from the rich? What happens when all the rich people leave(which they will because they arent stupid) before you get into power and have little to no money to give to the workers without taxing the fuck out of them which will only make the majority of people mad and drive down living conditions and morale. Under communism there is no motivation to innovate because the second you become create something of wealth it will be taken away and given to the guy who got drafted into the army in an effort to keep the unemployment down. Communism and socialism only work until you run out of other peoples money.

>>130826645
It ends up with a less organized workforce, the stratification labor and it's management is essential. Once the proletariat have a living wage there is no logical argument why they need more, besides
>REEEEEEEEEEE rich people have nice thigns
Only once the working class is abolished through automation and all the poor people starve and die will we be able to implement an equitable communist system. The inherent class struggle in all historical communism fucks it up too.

>>130829451

This neo-luddite crap has to end. Communists would want us back to digging holes with our hands, a worker with a shovel might replace ten shovel-less workers.

>>130838883

So global capitalism and communism really ARE the same Jewish trick. God damn Grandpa was right again.

>>130826645
t,retarded amirican boy (17 ) that knows shit about anything.
3/10 ,made me reply

there is no such thing as ancap

just capitalism

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>>130856535

>>130856249
What do you mean, "neo-Luddite"? Communists are materialists like you.

>>130826645
It doesn't work.
> muh rule of working class
Bullshit, in socialist countries all power is grasped by bureaucrats, eventually forming "nomenclature" of elite families.
This is how "rule of working class" looks like under "developed socialism": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novocherkassk_massacre
Workers are actually treated worse than under capitalism.
> "free" healthcare and education
Nothing ever is free. There are only two models: direct payment, when you yourself decide what kind of service you want, adjusting cost-quality as needed, and indirect payment, when money is extracted for you w/out your consent, and someone else decides what kind of service you will receive.
Moreover, since there's huge layer of indirection is involved, and nobody can refuse overpriced government-pushed bullshit, most of money goes to bureaucrats instead doctors/teachers, so you pay more and receive worse services.
> workers owning capital and the means of production
This is apex of shittiness of gominism/socialism.
When there is no motivation to work well, 95% of people will half-ass their work. In USSR, most of domestic-made electronics didn't even work when you bought it, you had to re-solder most of components yourself because drunkards at factory didn't do their job and nobody ever cared to check.
Not to mention that this is literally impossible. Average worker cannot even comprehend complexity of inter-organisational links, supply chains and other shit. Either such organisation falls to ruins or group of leaders emerge, who grasp all control of it and do all decision-making among their small group, while working class cattle just does as they say.

>>130826645
you're no better than the unironic Nazis in this board.

the fact people IRL dont care when a protest group waves the hammer and sickle but care about people waving a swastika shows how fucked up the discourse is in favor of communists.

>>130856630
OOHHH, say can you SEEEE
all this Mise-he-ry..
the fuck are you trying to tell me ?

>>130857302
open the pik ya dumb shnizel snorting fag

>>130841404
>China isn't so bad.

They have mobile execution chambers in fucking transit vans.

>>130857425
Go see your next Doctor in case of medical healthcare, pay 15 grand, you dumb cunt.

>>130826645
I don't really understand. What about communism is even appealing to you? >You own nothing
>You have no rights
>The government tells you where you work how long and how hard, and if its any less you get the gulag
I get the look out gor your community bit but can that not be done by charity?

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Conversely; in hateville...theblackpill:

60 MILLION DEAD in Soviet Union
100 MILLION DEAD in China

Go fuck yourself to death, tell me how it goes.

Probably still a better idea than asking the world to break out in assholes and shit itself to death.

www.riggedit.com

>>130826645
Do you truly believe that an entire country without the government would work? A government is necessary in order to have a functioning society, without it there would be no law or order. The communist way of life is a pile of shit.

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OP is literally retarded.

>>130826645
>nigger hasn't even read animal farm
Your ideology got BTFO by a fucking fairy tale book

Bread lines.

>>130856340
i've been saying this for years. third positionism is the only way

>>130829451
How autistic are you to think that 99% of people will just accept losing their jobs to robots? In no society will that ever be acceptable because of the uncertainty and social/economic effects such a radical change will cause unprecedented amount of backlash no government can afford to ignore. Machines will most likely augment human productivity not replace it completely, because believe it or not most people don't want to be useless pieces of shit just waiting for handouts. If it even gets to the point where the 1% don't need the other 99%, what's to make you think they won't just outright commit mass genocide in order to rid themselves of us leechers, after all, such concentrated power would certainly warrant the use of Recreational McNukes on the poor.

>>130859353
>A government is necessary
WELLL, but No, cousin. No.

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>>130860302
/thread

>>130857577
Sounds like they are efficiently achieving their goals. In a bloated government you would expect to wait a long time for your execution, not get it delivered to your door in a timely and convenient matter like that.

It is impossible to unironically be a communist and also be over the age of 16 and/or be a functioning independent adult.

The socialist parts of our economy are also the worst performing parts.

Socialism and communism are failures.