/lrg/ LIBERTARIAN RIGHT GENERAL - KILL EM ALL LET THE MARKET

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Last Thread.
>>130183394

>>130216761
Fuck nazis and fascists too.

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>>130216949
Don't leave out the Homosexual Communists that subvert our movement.

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>>130217166
better ver

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>>130217384
alright, will save.

>>130216807
>good cuck

is that the best you can do? an ad-hominem? I present to you the radical idea of personal responsibility, integrity, and honesty between internal community affairs, and you retreat from it like a coward. How predictably pathetic

>>130216901
>my point: "as possible". Good luck on that.

No luck is needed, that's the point. You control your luck, and you make things happens instead of wishful thinking

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>>130216761
>BEATING
Moy dom moi pravila

>>130217731
>is that the best you can do?
It's exactly what you are. Your community goes to shit, and you say "simply move", like it's no big deal. Not only you are rootless, but you are completely defeatist. Instead, what you should do is act on your community to change it for the better.

>No luck is needed, that's the point. You control your luck, and you make things happens instead of wishful thinking
This is ridiculous. You are saying there is no randomness in the world, whereas it is dominated by randomness and unpredictability. And, no, insurance markets don't solve the problem if that's where your autism is going.

>>130218436
If you live in a society with tradition ( like fucking up degenerates ) and you refuse to partake with the traditions, YOU ARE THE AGITATOR! What the fuck are you even arguing about anymore?!

>>130217984
You have no right to deny someone exit from your private property.

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>>130216761
I heard you guys were being mean to homosexuals and using racial slurs. That is NOT COOL. seriously , libertarianism is an inclusive philosophy about love. Capitalism is about LOVE you guys. No more hatespeech or i'll have to ask you all to leave. I'm serious.

>>130219367
It's called discrimination
Tchitay hoppe vso poymosh

>>130219496
Fuck off cucker, no one likes you.

>>130218747
Each nazi was fond of "his very own good jew".
Nonetheless, you are saying it's perfectly good and normal for a father to kick his son out of his town (and note I'm talking about town, not house) because the other people in the town don't like him.

If you cannot ensure generational stability in your society, it will collapse.

>>130218436
>you should do is act on your community to change it for the better.

that's what I also said by personal responsibility, negotiation, compromises, etc. You fucking communicate with other like-minded individuals like the property owners and you just called me a cuck you contradictory mong

>You are saying there is no randomness in the world,

I never made such a statement, but you can definitely mitigate your odds so they're in your favor. And you call me defeatist? You're literally suggesting you're some helpless baby to lady luck instead of making her your bitch

>>130219496
Yeah, thats "OMG HATESPEECH HOW BAD" narrative fucking sucks. Words are fucking words.
>>130219821
>not seeing obvious satire

>>130220005
Strawman again.
I'm saying it's perfectly normal, because it's voluntary. YOU AGREED to TAKE all the BENEFITS of the society, in EXCHANGE for some RULES.

>>130220005
>If you cannot ensure generational stability in your society, it will collapse.

yes, because like-minded people voluntarily coming together to private property they like while being extremely discriminatory against outsiders and people they don't like is totally generationally unstable

you literally have no argument other than strawman after strawman

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>>130219496
Do you want to join a voluntary funded boxing match Tucker
You get 30%...if we don't count the healthcare Bills

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Don't follow false gods

>>130220719
No way
>Decentralization>Nationalism>Globalism
I'll take nationalism instead of gay ass globalist EU fags

>>130220944
wtf I'm indifferent on protectionism now

Traditionfags, explain, why traditional families are superior to others? They were formed in agrarian pre-civilisation societies and are continiously breaking since humanity entered industrial age. Seems like they are just going extinct like dinosaurs, unable to adapt to modern enviroment.
I'm legitimatly curious.

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>>130220719
absolutely disgusting

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>>130221054
Protectionism sure beats global socialism and PC mind control zombies.

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>>130220719
LIAR
PHARISIAN

>>130220944
Rule of individual over itself > nationalism = globalism.
It's same shit bro, only difference is in which hands your stolen money is going.

>>130220944
>gay ass globalist EU fags
They're building another soviet-union, but this time it will be having a fake-capitalism as a cover. And all the time the jihadis are doing their own shit too. What a nightmare.

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>>130221066
The child isn't fucked up at then end

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>>130220719
>implying Trump isn't completely under der juden's control

>>130221278
I'd rather be stolen from by a pollack than by merkel desu. Still doesn't mean I lke any of those, I hate those systems.

>>130220074
>You fucking communicate with other like-minded individuals like the property owners
It is always less costly to not to move, unless you credibly threaten to kill me. Of course, if things escalate to this point, I can do the same thing, if I think I have a shot. And given how people misjudge these type of events (which is why the death penalty is not a good deterrent), even if the people being threatened deportation don't have a shot he will often move forcefully against you. And no matter what's happens, I'm being deported/killed because of what my son does and the fact the community doesn't like him.

>I never made such a statement, but you can definitely mitigate your odds so they're in your favor.
So, you do lack control in some way. Then, your points are invalid on how your kids will turn out.

>>130221278
Yeah I'd rather it go to the less powerful state.

>>130221321
Non-traditional =/= non-traditional sexuality of family members
I'm more about things like patriarchy, strong familiy ties, traditional gender roles etc.

>>130220382
Yes, if the outsiders are born in your midst and a minority of insiders are fond of them.

>>130221394
>>130221545
Nationalism doesn't mean weak state by itself. See Russia.

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>>130221200
>AnCap makes an argument for restricting the free market

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I hope you aren't using that window over there.

>>130220145
>voluntary means it's immediately good
>assuming perfect contracts again

>>130221890
Im making an argument for less restriction of the free market than you are proposing.

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>>130221654
>patriarchy, strong familiy ties, traditional gender roles etc.
The more woman fucks,the more she is fucked up (they are devalued)
Also trannies kill themselves very fast without any hatespeech,atleast the natural selection works
But I don't mind it if they do shit in their property and don't agress others,it's better for me actually becasie they will sold it very fast after the familiy is broke

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>>130216761

You guys are pretty cool, cucks (such as the ones that've infiltrated the US libertarian party) aside. Let's remove those globalist, trotskyite subhumans together, right?

Then we'll voluntarily submit ourselves to a fascist state with territory we claim, and then we'll maintain a steady if banter-filled relationship with your seasteading artificial McIslands or whatever you have planned.

>>130222112
Just go to a different society, we have like a few hundred countries right now, just make that times 2-200 and you have so much to choose one is going to definitely suit you.

>>130221528
>It is always less costly to not to move

money problems are never an excuse. Just admit you're not just shit at raising kids and failed your son, you're also shit at managing finances if you run into money problems unprepared. You deserve to get deported into ghetto communities where you belong

>I'm being deported/killed because of what my son does and the fact the community doesn't like him.

you should be deported if you can't control of your fucking kids, the same way if you can't control your wife you're also weak. Are you this mental? "I AM LITERALLY A SHITTY DAD PLEASE LET ME STAY IN YOUR COMMUNITY THAT ACTUALLY HAS STANDARDS"

christ you're exactly the kind of people I would actively try to boot from a community

>>130221657
it doesn't matter if a minority of insiders are fond of them, if the community's policy means no shitskins and degeneracy, it means no shitskins and degeneracy. You find people who uphold this no shitskins and degeneracy private rule, and develop a private community this way so everybody's on the same page. Stop assuming people won't self-segregate themselves, and stop assuming everybody's going to live in the same politically open societies

Why do all libertarians lack compassion? Is it because none of you received love as a child? <3

>>130222357
he literally won't move to a different community because he's a poorfag and wants to stay despite his kid being a massive fag causing problems for everyone

and he calls US cucks! hahaha

>>130222183
Again, i'm not about sexual/gender shit, i'm about patriarchy and large interconnected families, like everyone is in command of the oldest male, sisters and brothers live together with their families and etc.

>>130222147
yeah but still funny

>>130222502
We don't, we just thing forcing compassion at gunpoint is worse.

>>130222704
*think

What are you opinions on drugs?

>>130218436
A free society would have very protective neighborhoods. Without government distortion, people will mix into like-minded communities. A society of direct accountability naturally weeds out corruption.

If insurance was solely based on taking care of people with bad luck (rather than subsidizing risky behavior) it would be a hell of a lot cheaper.

>>130222450
>money problems are never an excuse
I'm talking about opportunity costs, you mung.

>you should be deported if you can't control of your fucking kids
You just admitted there are things in your kids you don't control, now you are assuming you control everything again. Inconsistency ftw. Your ideology cannot deal with unpredictability, just like those good ol' basic microeconomic models hahaha

>it doesn't matter if a minority of insiders are fond of them
the outsiders are their fucking kids
Defending one's kids is one of the biggest motivations people have.

>>130221822
>Let's remove those globalist, trotskyite subhumans together, right?
Im good with that. subversives be damned. when What Must be Done™ is done we'll decide on an order that works for us.

>>130222502
>having compassion for people that want to kill you

Why are libtards so indiscriminate? Why do they completely lack a sense of right and wrong?

>>130222596
yeah I know, most of these tards would just say "but muh nap tho".

>>130222502
Obvious b8, but.

Compassion as enforced by the state is not compassion. It might start as compassion, but eventually it just becomes a method of gaining votes in a partisan system by promising to devote more money to social programs, regardless of the actual effect of those programs. It stops being compassion, and starts becoming basic pandering in order to snag voters.

>>130222766
>people will mix into like-minded communities.
All fine and dandy but your society gets more people through birth and migration. You are only accounting for the latter, and assuming you perfectly control your kids' education.

And this not to mention how hugely dependent it is on people knowing each other's reputation and handling their own.

>>130222744
Hell yea.
>>130222785
Just change your flair to fascism then. Killing people for their beliefs is NOT AnCap, it breaks NAP. Only extradition.

>>130221095
Stealing this meme

>>130223019
>Hell yea.

I see I don't belong here.

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>>130216761
IT
IS
TIME

>>130222771
>You just admitted there are things in your kids you don't control, now you are assuming you control everything again. Inconsistency ftw.
>hurr control is black and white, you either have no control or full control!

retard

>Your ideology cannot deal with unpredictability

it precisely deals with the unpredictable by managing what is predictable and acting accordingly, mitigating the odds to the best possible consistent outcome

>the outsiders are their fucking kids. Defending one's kids is one of the biggest motivations people have.

I just told you that there's a no shitskins and degenerates rule in this private community, which includes race mixers. Nice try moving the goalpost, if somebody is dating shitskins/degenerates then the community can deal with them knowing what could potentially happen in the future

>>130222502
Because I don't believe that theft is ever justifiable.

>>130223019
>beliefs encourage a harmful ideology that will most likely cause an ancap system to collapse
>people may not submit to forced extradition
>what do with people that want to destroy your government and way of life and implement a harmful system and will respond with violence if you try to extradite them???

>Captcha: Select squares with helicopters in them

>>130222771
>things in your kids you don't control
Most people are aware kids are stupid so they would obviously get some leniency. I don't why any city would ramp up removal to 100 immediately. That's what the state does with its shitty heavy handed approach. I'd imagine if you have a tight knit community people would actually come together to solve issues.

>>130222584
The owner of a The household decides How it works
And since women don't like entrepreneurship (but still complain there aren't enough female CEO) it's normal for The male in The majority of cases being The leader of The house

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>>130223019
NAP doesn't apply to those who break the NAP, they must be physically removed by any means necessary

>>130223134
Why not? I don't shove them down anyone's throats, this doesn't implact my professional behavior, I don't harm anyone's property or anything.

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>>130223019
A society where a population threatens the "seize the means of production", starts riots and destroys property is not a libertarian society. They have to be dealt with. They actually are violating the nap, im just talking about it.

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Reporting all of the copyright violations in this thread, hope you all get DMCA'd

>>130222744
I want to enjoy seing junkies asking me to help them after they destroyed themselves and whispering to their rotten ears "no"

>>130222948
Positive liberties can never be compassionate unless it is done with consent which almost never is the case in the eternal nanny-state.

Sure, If some owner of a private enterprise wants to give nigs and spics special treatment for whatever reason, they have my blessings, but I'll never use their services.

>>130223000
People naturally congregate even in this fucked up world of corrupt government subsidies. You think it's a coincidence San Francisco is full of faggots and Utah has a shit ton of Mormons? Obviously kids aren't always going to be like their parents so sometimes they'll migrate to communities that hold their ideals. Multiculturalism (byproduct is unrest and violence) is a twisted, corrupt society and ISN'T natural. Humans are tribal and homogeneous by nature.

>And this not to mention how hugely dependent it is on people knowing each other's reputation and handling their own.

Even in the fucking 1800s they could track reputations. Everyone knew each other and strangers weren't trusted until they proved they were civil and compatible. We have the internet and computers now genius, reputation tracking is easier than ever.

>>130223331
>>130223436
>>130223536
Of course after they break NAP/threaten it (which is equivalent) we can helicopter them. But not before, cause it makes us same as nazis/stalinists.

>>130223436
Are we honestly arguing about the morality of killing commies? I thought it was already settled; communists are attempting to violate our property rights, so we are justified in using force against them to protect our rights.

>>130223134
he's a bit of a faggot. He wants freedom to do harm and live a sick lifestlye. don't let him be the representitive of the rest of us.

>>130223594
you have violated the NAP

>>130222502
GIVE ME LIBERTY OR GIVE ME DEATH!

>>130223740
this. commies arent people, and this have no rights

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“I believe in no God, no invisible man in the sky. But there is something more powerful than each of us, a combination of our efforts, a Great Chain of industry that unites us. But it is only when we struggle in our own interest that the chain pulls society in the right direction. The chain is too powerful and too mysterious for any government to guide. Any man who tells you different either has his hand in your pocket, or a pistol to your neck.”
― Andrew Ryan

>>130222581
this>>130223740
this too. Commies have no rights.
REMEMBER WHAT MUST BE DONE!

>>130223184
>hurr control is black and white, you either have no control or full control!
kek, that's exactly what you're saying. You are assuming I'm responsible for anything that doesn't go my way.

>mitigating the odds to the best possible consistent outcome
That's not enough, especially when they are still so high.

>Nice try moving the goalpost
I'm saying since the beginning that if your kid is a degenerate (i.e. he is gay) and born into a community he never agreed to, the community would be happy with him for a few years (until he doesn't reveal he is a faggot), and then kick him out when he's older. This not only conflicts with your voluntarist bullshit, but needs parents willing to completely shun their kids.

>>130222912
But snake friend, there is no objective right or wrong

>>130223365
So your community is what? 200 people?

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>>130223727
WELL GUESS WHAT THEY"RE DOING FAGGOT.

This is not the thread for crypto-pacifist reddit ancaps.

>>130223890
>Worshipping industry, capitalism
Holy shit is this based?

>>130222704
We should just ban the guns then friend!

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>>130223740
Some libertarians are still too cucked to admit this or recognize it

They need to listen to Hoppe

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-wMmYSG9JQ

In These Threads: So so sovereign individuals have their bidaily hivemind thought-merge. Have you aquired consensus yet?

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>>130223727
>>130223740
See
>>130217021

>>130223284
Who is stealing from you friend? I'm sorry they stole from you. Maybe if we focused more on education, our fellow friends wouldn't feel the need to steal?

>>130223975
Then I suppose killing you is completely right.

>>130223975
>there is no objective right or wrong
So...yay for hobos lynching :D

>>130223766
I do harm to no one. I just live the way I want to without harming others (property). Whats wrong with that?
>>130223909
Thats 1984 and Holocaust-level shit. Until they don't violate NAP, we must not. That's what makes us different from them.

>>130224038
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pePVL8-TX_Q

>>130224213
P H Y S I C A L
R E M O V A L

>>130223691
>People naturally congregate even in this fucked up world of corrupt government subsidies.
So, no need to change anything on this regard.

>reputation tracking is easier than ever.
It's exactly the opposite. People don't know each other, have no clue who even their neighbours are.
Reputation management was easier in the past: much, much easier.

>>130224148
If you can properly justify it :^) But I'm not encroaching on your property I'm simply presenting alternative views. Why would you threaten me snake friend?

>>130223988
>200 people
Would be pretty good yea. Afaik we evolved to keep track of just about that many relationships.

>>130224217
Kek'd, haven't seen that one yet

>>130224162
Let's find ways so there are no more hobos! Maybe we can provide for them as a ....community....!!!

>>130224213
Y'know what happens to parties that aren't willing to do the dirty work to ensure a clean, safe, and prosperous society fitting to their visions?

They decay, collapse, and their dreams get feasted on by the hangers on that were able to get in and survive due to the overwhelming desire to be the better man.

>>130223936
>I'm saying since the beginning that if your kid is a degenerate (i.e. he is gay) and born into a community he never agreed to, the community would be happy with him for a few years (until he doesn't reveal he is a faggot), and then kick him out when he's older. This not only conflicts with your voluntarist bullshit, but needs parents willing to completely shun their kids.

This is a flawed premise. It's against the NAP to kick someone out by force unless they have already broken the NAP. What would really happen is people would be rude or otherwise choose not to associate with degenerate. The degenerate would eventually leave to find a more positive environment on their own. What parents do with their children is their own business (assuming they're not using violence).

>>130224381
Sure, start a community and manage it like you want. Just don't tread on us!

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>>130224213
>we must make a revolution and seize the means of production
>they are not harming anyone
Bratan...ti znaesh kak eta zokontchelas(don't know How to make The soft symbol with latin letters)

>>130223936
>You are assuming I'm responsible for anything that doesn't go my way.

You are.

>"my own kid is now a complete and total utter crossdressing faggot!"
>"i dindu nuffins doe"
>"please let me and my kid stay to continue fagging things up"
>"omg y r u kicking me out ancap has failed me :(((((((("

>That's not enough, especially when they are still so high.
>e-everything is all on luck man!
>Entrepreneurs and business people? all luck. No skill involved. No responsibility. No accountability. No ambition, no drive, no dedication to results they want to see happen
>hey man can i borrow money for more lotto tickets?

literally your thought process

>I'm saying since the beginning that if your kid is a degenerate (i.e. he is gay) and born into a community he never agreed to, the community would be happy with him for a few years (until he doesn't reveal he is a faggot), and then kick him out when he's older. This not only conflicts with your voluntarist bullshit, but needs parents willing to completely shun their kids.

I see absolutely nothing wrong with this. That faggot has chosen to express degeneracy in an explicitly anti-degeneracy community instead of saving up money and moving out on his own when he's older to more fag-friendly communities. There is no conflict. If he doesn't like, he moves. Private property owners have the first, last, and only say. Same goes for his parents, when they could at the very least give him money to move out with or send him to family members living in more (((open))) communities

>>130224213
>Until they don't violate NAP, we must not.

If they are planning and organizing to kill us (they are), then they must be stopped beforehand.

You can't wait until somebody kills you to fight back, then it's already too late.

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>>130222502
Hurting people gives me the boner

>>130224291
Like you said, there's no right and wrong, so killing you is perfectly acceptable, right?

>>130224213
>>130223766
There is no liberty without duty. You inflict harm upon the others who love you by damaging yourself. You are no an island in this world, and many people expose themselves to you, for you. Do not betray them by harming yourself in the pursuit of hedonism.

Anarcho-Capitalism can only work when you project your actions forward to understand their consequences. Otherwise it ends up like a 'sold my baby for some nukes' meme.

>>130224381
I will not give a single kopeck
Lynching is more fun

How do libertarians deal with the knowledge that 95% of Americans laugh at their fringe views? It must be difficult being viewed as a weirdo :(

>>130224612
leftists don't understand natural rights, so don't try to argue with them. They exist to be thrown out of helicopters.

>>130224612
No objective right or wrong. I would love to hear your subjective reasoning though my friend!

I have a serious question about the NAP. How would smokingi in public be handled with the NAP? Smoking can cause damage so isn't it technically a violation of the NAP?

>>130224408
Proof, plz.
>>130224513
>>130224524
That slogan is threat, and thus, violation of NAP already.
Automatic turrets are way to go.
>>130224638
>There is no liberty without duty.
Goverment told me this shit about taxes.

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>>130224213
This thread was originated to sperarate ourselves once and for all from libertien idiots like you. Rothbard hated left-libertarians like you. Go ahead, smoke your fucking weed, just keep it away from us. You deserve the alienation you're getting. This is not the place for your bullshit shallow reddit tier interpretations of property rights and non-aggression.

PHYSICALLY REMOVE COMMUNISTS AND THEIR LEFT-LIBERTARIAN SUBVERTERS.

>>130224053
>flag

>>130224584
I'm sorry friend, have you considered seeing a therapist to talk about these things?

>>130224786
There is a fundamental difference between government and your people and society.

>>130224781
yes

>>130224427
How is that any different from what happens today?

>>130224771
Why is there a subjective right and wrong if there is no objective one?

Nothing really matters, might as well kill you, right?

>>130224781
>in public

>>130224695
>How do heliocentrists believers deal with the knowledge that 95% of geocentrists laugh at their fringe views? It must be difficult being viewed as a weirdo :(

>>130224798
>PHYSICALLY REMOVE COMMUNISTS AND THEIR LEFT-LIBERTARIAN SUBVERTERS

THIS

>>130224760
You seem very angry at life friend. I'm sorry things haven't gone your way.

>>130216761
PHYSICAL. REMOVAL. OF. COMMUNIST. FAGS.

SAY IT AGAIN!

>>130224798
Left? U kidding? I'm as pro-laissez faire as man not paying taxes can be. I'm just against though policing, this is 1984-level shit.

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>>130224985
God damn right.

>>130224760
I just like pointing out his hypocrisy, maybe he will learn something

>>130224518
Your whole post is an ode on the reasons why these "societies" would collapse in a generation.

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>mention drugs
>everyone wants to lynch the hippie who takes the bait

>>130224960
>How do evolutionists deal with the knowledge that 95% of creationists laugh at their fringe views?

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>>130225025
fuck off. cry about internet bullying all you want.

>>130217095
Fuck yeah.

>>130224798
AAAAMEN!

>>130224928
Because individuals are capable of creating their own moral compass based on their upbringing and environment. If the environment you were brought up in suggests you should kill strangers, I have to wonder what the values instilled in that environment are aimed at producing.

>>130225025
He means social left

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>>130224695
Feels patrician. Gotta admit it feels isolated though. When I meet someone that shares my views it's like meeting a unicorn. They'll come around though.
Also
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum

>>130225102
how so? you're all bark with no bite, you and your faggot son

>>130225025
I think you agree, but you just don't see how big the threat is

It's not thought police, it's ACTION police, these people are literally trying to kill us

If I were to fire a metal projectile in the direction of a communist, and that metal projectile happened to pass through that communist would it even be against NAP?

As we know Commies don't acknowledge ownership and private property, thus, they're also ultimately denouncing the ownership of their own bodies which means that said metal projectile would travel through something nobody yet has claimed ownership of.

Am I correct here?

>>130224289
>So, no need to change anything on this regard.

Except, you know. The violence and endless poverty caused by multiculturalism and subsidies you fucking imbecile.

>It's exactly the opposite. People don't know each other, have no clue who even their neighbours are. Reputation management was easier in the past: much, much easier.

First off, speak for yourself. I have lived in several neighborhoods where all the neighbors knew each other. It's only in big multicultural cities do people start ignoring neighbors. I have nothing in fucking common with my neighbors currently and all I really need to know is they've already been screened for felonies.

I mean what's your point, we don't check our neighbors today because it's not needed. I couldn't give a shit about my neighbors outside of making sure they're not going to steal my packages. My apartment complex screens all residents and we have private security for shenanigans. We also have police patrolling the neighborhood regularly, I don't need to fucking know everyone by name.

In a free society, reputation management will be mostly handled by landlords and banks.

>>130225210
I have to wonder what kind of environment you were brought up in where you lack a sense of right and wrong.

>>130225230
Do you ever worry that they just pretend they agree with your views to shut your lecturing up and then make fun of you behind your back?

>>130225266
If you want to be generous, then no. But Commies aren't deserving of generosity.

>>130224334
That's retarded. That size is not optimal economically nor militarily. The territory of my country would have 50000 of these communities. And they would deal with each other like countries do today with "international law".

>>130225266
Just remeber that there are other rules in current societies in NAP, but yeah, us libertarians don't think communists apply to the NAP, because they want to violate the NAP.

>>130225266
Our Libertarian state would in theory be empowered to remove threats to our Libertarian state.

>>130225167
Internet bullying is oxxymoron for me, my friend. I just want to see reasoning.
>>130225260
>trying
Unleash the McNukes

>>130225329
But why do you assume I lack a sense of right or wrong? Could we not have differing views of what is right and what is wrong?

>>130225266
Commies are not people, so that is perfectly fine

>>130225450
You think it's fine if I kill you, sounds like a pretty odd ideology you got going there

>>130224916
Not much difference from what happens today. This really is a topic outside of libertarianism outside of the reminder that Libertarians believe in freedom of association which is the opposite of what SJWs and communists believe.

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>>130225344
Stop posting
Tree-hugger

>>130217003
https://youtu.be/xHlyDhwIRjg

fake ass libertarian. GO FUCK YOUR WALL!

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>>130216761
Fuck off.

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>>130216761

>>130225325
>Except, you know. The violence and endless poverty caused by multiculturalism and subsidies you fucking imbecile.
As you guys always say: just move. You should consider Poland, perhaps.

>reputation management will be mostly handled by landlords and banks.
lol

>we don't check our neighbors today because it's not needed
given what you said, again, there is no need to change

Pill me on the difference between deontological and consequentialist libertarianism

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>>130225634
>tfw you will fight these guys and then the Jews win

>>130225631
*laughs in Rocwell*

>>130225465
"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster."
-Friedrich Nietzsche

>>130225699
Ends do not justify the means vs. ends do not justify the memes.

>>130225784
i mean do justify the memes
excuse me

>>130225525
So there is no need to change. But if you really want it, just shill for secession (and then watch your country destroy itself from within).

>>130225516
If I deemed the killing completely justifiable! You've yet to present any answers for your subjective desire to do so, unfortunately :(. Is it OK if someone with more resources and power decides to kill you, under your libertarian dream world?

>>130225724
Can't be a monster if you're not really killing people, just communists.

>>130225724
Nietzsche is right, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't fight monsters.

>>130225670
>As you guys always say: just move. You should consider Poland, perhaps.

Lol classic meme answer. First off you can't "just move". There's taxes, you have to literally ostracize yourself from family, and you're just moving under another government which doesn't acknowledge individual rights.

You "lol" about my bank/landlord comment because you aren't equipped to provide an actual contrary response. I think I've hit your intellectual limit, which is sad.

>>130225619
Should libertarians not protect the environment to ensure their property will last for generations?

>>130225843
I never said I wanted to kill you, I said under your ideology it is perfectly acceptable to do so.

Interesting how your ideology has no sense of self-preservation in it.

>>130225827
Which one is "ends justifying means?"

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>>130225843
I.said.stop.posting

>>130225955
consequentialist

>>130225929
>Should
They can. It could be helpful to them; however, should they be required to?

>>130225830
You are really stupid aren't you? So I'm done reasoning with you since you're basically a complacent little sheep. Hope one day the government fucks you over hardcore one day and you starve to death.

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>>130225929

>>130225944
Do you consider your ideology to be absolutely, objectively superior? Who says my ideology doesn't allow for self-preservation? Qts seem to like well-adjusted, non-bitter guys so my genes have been passed on :^)

>>130225866
You already fell in the Abyss. This is same logic they would justify killing us. We are not commies/fascists/liberals/anyshit, and we must not kill people for their thoughts.
>>130225877
I'm more about this ^^^

>>130225344
>shut your lecturing
I don't do that. Believe it or not some people actually respect my opinion.

>>130225396
>not optimal economically
Like you know. People do drive to work you know? So you can live in one place. And work elsewhere. Weird concept, I know.

>militarily
They could pool defense resources.

>50000 of these communities
Cool. More choice.

>like countries do today
Why? They're hardly states in the conventional sense. The whole interaction would be a lot more streamlined.

>>130226210
Exactly, why can't we kill them, when they always want to kill us? Do you know how liberty in the US was won?
Also, we're speaking
P H Y S I C A L R E M O V A L here, so to speak.

>>130226122
Do you not have an answer for my question? It's ok if you don't, friend.

This thread is an incoherent mess. But God bless you.

>>130225929
>Should libertarians not protect the environment to ensure their property will last for generations?

Yeah that's what people want, to burn down all the trees and pollute the ocean so their children can die in smog.

You do realize that cities were fixing the smog problem before the EPA was invented right?

>>130225906
>Lol classic meme answer. First off you can't "just move". There's taxes, you have to literally ostracize yourself from family, and you're just moving under another government which doesn't acknowledge individual rights.
Oh, now you can't move? So you are in your country voluntarily, I assume? And if you are so stingy, the only society that can accommodate you is you living alone in the woods.

>you aren't equipped to provide an actual contrary response
That must be it. Do you seriously want me to tell you why is it stupid to say your landlord is going to manage your friends and acquaintances?

>>130226183
You don't think it's wrong for people to kill you, so anyone who doesn't like you might as well do it. It's not wrong so there are no consequences, you'd happily take the bullet.

>>130226219
I respect your opinion! It's nice to have an open discussion about differing political views isn't it?

>>130226323
Va poster ailleurs sous-homme de niqueur d'arbres

>>130225434
>Unleash the McNukes
fuck your lame ass larping. you're not serious.
>>130225631
>quoting Rothbard
>fake libertarian
fuck off idiot.

>>130226447
I never said I don't think it's wrong. I said I'd love to hear the justification for it, first. You seem to be very focused on this killing thing, remember it's important to be happy in life and not so focused on negativity! There is a lot of beauty in life, my friend...enjoy it!

>>130226439
>Oh, now you can't move? So you are in your country voluntarily, I assume? And if you are so stingy, the only society that can accommodate you is you living alone in the woods.

>blah blah sheep memes that libertarians laugh about all the time

>Do you seriously want me to tell you why is it stupid to say your landlord is going to manage your friends and acquaintances?

I dunno, my landlord prohibits degeneracy on property, kicks out unruly tenants, and people who commit crimes aren't allowed. Also the cost of my rent prevents riffraff and idiots from living in my community. It's nice having a private tennis court and swimming pool. :^)

>>130224786
Conservatism in the United States.

Forever giving ground, never taking unless it's brought kicking and screaming into a new, populist manner.

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>>130226448
Sure is, pal. :)

>>130226219
>Like you know. People do drive to work you know? So you can live in one place. And work elsewhere. Weird concept, I know.
Assuming the communities are actually not shunning each other. So, if they're not, and you can simply drive to wherever you want, what's really the point about them being divided again?

>They could pool defense resources.
meaningless blabber

>Cool. More choice.
hahaha

>The whole interaction would be a lot more streamlined.
Yes, there are 50000C2 possible interactions. Very streamlined.

>>130226635
>I never said I don't think it's wrong.

WHOA

Glad we agree now, you finally admitted there is right and wrong.

>>130226844
Key word being "I", friend ;) hence my subjective view

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We should start an anti-communist paramilitary. Kinda like the British Blackshirts, except we aren't exclusively Fascist or statist.
We need to start designing anti-communist memes and discuss locations where we can organize the paramilitary.

>>130226693
And your landlord will also tell you with whom you should interact more often to get that juicy promotion you are looking after. In fact, he will organize a dinner between you two because he loves his tenants so much.

>>130226961
k fbi

>>130226313
Because this is what separates us from them. I'm all in for defensive measures, arming everyone etc, but attacking first is not something we must do, as that would make us monsters we fight against.
>>130226471
Nukes are against states that may attack Ancapistani. Against individual opponents, drones and arming everyone. I'm dead serious, this is THE ONLY way freedom can be achieved.
>>130226773
Counterpoint: conservatism in Russia.
Same family values, leads to shit.

Anyway, bye everyone, nice discussion, but I must sleep. Sinceresly, your Russian-degenerate-AnCap anon.

>>130226961
You're off to a great start with that image from a children's television show!

>>130225634
Everything i don't like is jewish : Political guide 101 to internet discussion.

>>130227040
Paka moi lyubimi degenerat
Horosho viydet ruskih

>>130226984
>And your landlord will also tell you with whom you should interact more often to get that juicy promotion you are looking after. In fact, he will organize a dinner between you two because he loves his tenants so much.

Are you deliberately being obtuse or are you too stupid to actually reason your way through this? I have a feeling you're taking what I'm saying *way* too literally. Like are you unable to actually to realize I didn't mean the landlord micromanages relationships. Like really, are you a retard?

>>130227040
shut up already. you're a fucking pussy, calling me a fascist for thinking we should deal with the communists rioting and causing worldwide and going on to larp about nukes. lurk more or fuck off.

>>130227320
>causing violence worldwide.

>>130227050
It penetrates people the deepest. If we turn childhood icons into anti-communist symbols, we strike the masses right inna heart.
Kermit would be a good start considering he's already a meme, and we can create a large-scale anti-Marxist meme, since Marxist memes have inadvertently gotten teens to think being communist is cool.

>>130227238
You are the one who didn't understand what I said before replying "landlords". And, yes, I'm being ironic (lol)

>>130227409
Do you really think there is a legitimate communist threat in America?

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>>130226812
>Assuming the communities are actually not shunning each other.
Why would 50000 communities all shun each other? That's ridiculous.

>what's really the point about them being divided again
Decentralization so people can make a choice of living that they want. It's not about separation. Also I can easily just turn your argument around. Why can't all these communities co-exist peacefully when they can do so under one country already? And that's with the added inconvenience of actually being ruled by people that don't share their views.

>meaningless blabber
>hahaha
Pic related.

>Yes, there are 50000C2 possible interactions. Very streamlined.
>ignoring the bit about not being conventional states
And even with that. There's free travel between existing states of the EU already. So why wouldn't these communities want such an arrangement? If you want to be such an asshole that you can't work with anybody, that's your loss. Most people I imagine would get along just fine.

>>130227717
yes

I can call people Communists in public and nobody bats an eye, yet if I call someone a Nazi it's an insult. There's a bias. It exists. McCarthy was right

>>130227448
Because I gave you the benefit of the doubt of not being a retard. Because I read back what was said and I NEVER ONCE said what you somehow gleaned from the conversation. In the future, perhaps you should actually engage with what people ACTUALLY SAY and not have an argument with stuff you make up.

To me you're just a disingenuous moron. I tried to have a legitimate discussion with you but you seem to here trying to stump people or some shit. Guess what friend, I see you as the sheep fraud you are. You probably haven't self-reflected once in your life about what happens around you.

>>130227717
Absolutely.

>>130227937
he's been consistently btfo earlier and even in the last thread. I take it he enjoys looking like a fool in public, like some kind of online exhibitionist

>>130227848
>Why can't all these communities co-exist peacefully when they can do so under one country already?
American Civil War, 1861. Check it out.

>not an argument
I could say the same thing. Pool defense resources is not an argument.

>There's free travel between existing states of the EU already
Yes, and contrary to what you might think, it is a bureaucratic mess. And that's 28C2. Add now a few thousand.

>>130227937
I'm going to be cheeky like you guys like to be and say "not an argument".

>>130227873
Can you provide some factual evidence, other than what you "feel" based upon your experiences trying to interact with well-adjusted people?

>>130228351
I take it you've never been to a university or school before. Says a lot about you, actually

>>130228158
You haven't answered a single point I've raised. You just cling on assuming perfect contracts and free information, as if that's how humans behave. That's simply naive for someone powerless like yourselves but actually dangerous for a political activist, given how he's actively aiming to bring down long-standing and good enough institutions.

>>130228266
oh lolol you sure showed me

Go run off now and talk about how cool you are with your other 16 year old friends. You sure showed those AnCaps how stupid they are. :^) :^)

>>130228577
I don't need to show you anything. You showed it yourself.

>>130228520
>You haven't answered a single point I've raised.

like what?

>WHY CAN'T MY FAGGOT SON BE DEGENERATE IN PUBLIC WITHOUT GETTING KICKED OUT

I already answered it. You're a horrible father and should rightfully be excused from the community elsewhere, alone with the son. There is no contradiction anywhere whatsoever, the people that tolerate degeneracy will be in their own little corners to rot in peace without welfare to keep them afloat.

>assuming perfect contracts and free information

never said that

try again bucko :^)

>>130228497
Thank you for deflecting and not providing any evidence. You really strengthened your case there!

>>130228520
No one should take you seriously. You inject strawmans and inject nonsense and then try to play gotcha games. You're disingenuous. What makes me happy is people like you often die with dementia because their brains often blur fabrications with reality.

>>130228854
yeah man let me just prove that water is wet real quick xdddd

>>130228203
>American Civil War, 1861
Oh a state refusing to relinquish control and not letting them secede. Full retard "argument".

>Pool defense resources is not an argument
It is because it's more efficient so it would likely be done. Oh and screaming not an argument at just anything is you know...not an argument.

>it is a bureaucratic mess
That's because of regulations. Why would an ancap society feature bureucratic regulations? So dumb. In fact it's just added pressure to reduce regulation the more of these communities you have. Win win.

>>130228700
I know, I vetted you through this thread and have shown you to be a disingenuous fraud who isn't here to have a legitimate conversation. At best you're a troll but that really isn't much of an honor. What would be really tragic is if you actually thought you *were* engaging in legitimate discussion at which point I would suggest you seek mental help.

>>130228850
>never said that
That's why you are assuming it. The first part of this comment means you are assuming it. You are an idiot. My whole point of the degenerate son is to show you how any contract is imperfect, to be revisable/negotiated later. That's why any bullshit about rules defined a priori will not stand, and there will always be political infighting within these communes. In other words, you will simply bring down the current institutions to put a retarded copy of them that, if working properly, will build the exact same kind of society.

http://archive.is/KrIzj

Why do left-libertarians continue to think that we should associate with totalitarian, communist nations? Just because the state should not exist does not mean that there is no state. We should want the state to resemble a libertarian society as much as possible, which means dissociating from communists. Why does Reason not get this?

>>130229057
>Full retard "argument".
not an argument

>Oh and screaming not an argument at just anything is you know...not an argument.
the irony

>It is because it's more efficient so it would likely be done
explain.

>Why would an ancap society feature bureucratic regulations?
Because any community needs rules? You said it yourself before lol You are going to need to manage someway of integrating all these 50000 rules to have people, goods and factors moving between places, otherwise you'll have transaction costs beyond belief, and the economy of this region will be completely inefficient. And that's, of course, only if you want interaction between them.

>>130229238
Your flaw is you think today's society is actually working.

>rampant poverty
>violence, rape, murder
>insolvent governments

You realize that Portugal is literally this close to collapsing? You have a 129% debt to GDP. Like holy shit.

>>130229136
You are just copping out because you misinterpreted what I've said lol
But keep on claiming bullshit about me. I'm sure you saying it makes it true.

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>>130221998
Someone steals my window I'm going to shoot them.

>>130229553
Im pretty suspicious that reason is globalists jew funded bullshit. Anyway you're absolutely right. the state should act as genuine property owners but left-libertarians think anything short of abolishing the state is fascism.

>>130229238
>That's why you are assuming it.

so you're assuming I'm assuming? lmfao

>My whole point of the degenerate son is to show you how any contract is imperfect, to be revisable/negotiated later

how is that imperfect? you discuss and negotiate contracts, that's the point and whole idea of AnCap instead of having a contract forced down your throat. Have a homo kid in a no-homo private community? well obviously you must have known the rules beforehand by living there and would discourage homos in your family, but if he's a real faggot and can't control himself you've now gotta work a deal with the private property owners for a clean and peaceful way out.

Gonna guess that homo kid can stay as long as he doesn't express any faggotry in public, otherwise at adult age he is told to peacefully leave. Dad can give him money to be on his way to go fag-friendly communities. However, if the father insists on him to stay despite breaking contract his entire family is now on the line or else he too is physically removed. Decisions, choices, and consequences. Learn them, nigger

>there will always be political infighting within these communes

nice assumption

>will build the exact same kind of society.

it will build a far superior society

>>130229715
I misinterpreted the literal fabrication you made of what I said. You see, I was residing in reality where I read and understand the words typed at me. You live in a reality where you inject your opinions onto what other people write and then you argue against those injections and then further pretend like you're actually doing a good job at debating.

You're really just a dumb faggot. But I understand, you're pretty invested in the general lie statists make up because realizing the truth will probably fuck you up mentally (outside what you already are). Pretty blue pill if you ask me.

>>130229671
>rampant poverty
How does ancap solve this? Is removing welfare your magic wand? Poverty will still be there m8. The problem is the people.

>violence, rape, murder
Again, the people.

>insolvent governments
This has to do precisely with the issues on information I'm raising. If your assumptions were true, every government would work perfectly because it would be costless to monitor it, just like it is costless to agree on some bullshit society and perfect rules everybody is going to agree with full knowledge of all the implications and not change minds later whilst still wanting to keep living in the same place.

>>130229995
>you must have known the rules beforehand by living there
This sentence is you assuming perfect contracts/perfect information. There is no way you will ever guarantee this in any society. I'm sorry humans are not of your liking. I don't give a fuck about the homo kid.

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>>130224840
I did for many years, it was a waste of time for everyone involved. Therapy can only help you if you want to change. If you've already accepted who you are, it's too late.

“If your brother becomes poor and cannot maintain himself with you, you shall support him as though he were a stranger and a sojourner, and he shall live with you. Take no interest from him or profit, but fear your God, that your brother may live beside you. You shall not lend him your money at interest, nor give him your food for profit.

Leviticus 25:35-37

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>>130227717
I don't think that theirs Reds that will be able to take over though that still could happen, what I worry is that the state keeps moving to the left which will lead to socialism/communism.

>>130230049
I said today it's much harder to track reputation. You said it's not needed, and landlords and bankers would do it. I can partly agree on the first point because that's what the state and our monetary system is there for. The second is retarded because you're living out many relationships and many types of interactions.

Again, you're copping out.

>>130230084
>How does ancap solve this? Is removing welfare your magic wand?

no welfare means people have to actually *gasp* work for a living. No taxes and no regulations means more business from easier startups, meaning more employment opportunities to get out of poverty all while making prices cheaper for everybody from free competition.

Removing welfare does so much in the long run

>Poverty will still be there m8. The problem is the people.

Poverty is there for those choosing to keep themselves in poverty. There is no problem with people, the only problem is in government.

>>130230379
>This sentence is you assuming perfect contracts/perfect information

are you illiterate? this is a piece of paper. It tells you what's ok and not ok. Do the things that's not ok and there's gonna be problems, so don't do them. Sign here if you agree with that. It's not rocket science m8

>There is no way you will ever guarantee this in any society.

record keeping? paper? computers? are you this stupid?

>I don't give a fuck about the homo kid.

suuuure, despite your adamant defense of them

>>130230084
>How does ancap solve this? Is removing welfare your magic wand? Poverty will still be there m8. The problem is the people.

Poverty exists as it does because of government subsidies. Look it up.

>Again, the people.

We live in a society where the initiation of violence is normalized. Further, much like most government institutions, there is no actual incentive to reduce crime to a point where the police is no longer necessary (or can be reduced). It's always more, more, more.

>This has to do precisely with the issues on information I'm raising. If your assumptions were true, every government would work perfectly because it would be costless to monitor it, just like it is costless to agree on some bullshit society and perfect rules everybody is going to agree with full knowledge of all the implications and not change minds later whilst still wanting to keep living in the same place.

What that fuck are you even saying. That had nothing to do with what I said. The correct answer would be: current governments are spending themselves into oblivion and you wouldn't have this problem in Ancapistan because there is NO FUCKING GOVERNMENT TO SPEND ITSELF INTO OBLIVION. In case that wasn't clear. I know you have a habit of making shit up.

>>130230748
I don't see The part where I must be robbed by The government

>>130222502

I have compassion for my fellow man, which is why I respect his boundaries and wish to let them live the way they want to.

>>130229608
Christ you're a moron.

>You said it yourself before
I didn't. Not about free trade anyway. And I don't see why you would turn away every visitor unless they're from a community you have no wish of interacting with. Which would be very rare.

>You are going to need to manage someway of integrating all these 50000 rules to have people, goods and factors moving between places
Free trade. Solved. And again because you're stupid. Precisely because it would turn very costly communities would keep regulations to a minimum.

>rest of the post
Garbage.

>>130230949
>no welfare, no taxes, no regulations would paradise
>Poverty is there for those choosing to keep themselves in poverty.
nice hypothesis you got there

>this is a piece of paper. It tells you what's ok and not ok.
You truly don't get it. Dear God. Again, have you ever signed a contract in your life? You said yes, but your answers suggest the opposite. And, worse, you're talking about an agreement that's effectively akin to a constitution.

>record keeping? paper? computers? are you this stupid?
It's like you're assuming there isn't a whole discipline called Law, whose entire goal is to solve all the problems you're assuming away.

>suuuure, despite your adamant defense of them
read again. My point about the homo kid is on unpredictability. If you don't think that was the point, again: read again.

>>130228969
The impetus is on you to provide the evidence that communism is an active threat to the United States, since you issued the proclamation. I'll wait here, for your evidence...otherwise, you're just another useful idiot fighting an imaginary enemy

>>130231075
>Poverty exists as it does because of government subsidies. Look it up.
>there is no actual incentive to reduce crime to a point where the police is no longer necessary (or can be reduced)
nice hypothesis you got there

>Ancapistan because there is NO FUCKING GOVERNMENT TO SPEND ITSELF INTO OBLIVION
Sure, there is no government. All those rules and agreements, and strict enforcement in a very tight community. And all the people would have the time and willingness to participate in all disputes. It's like they wouldn't delegate them to 3rd parties or something.

>>130231092
Without a goverment the heretics who break these rules would be able to get away from their social duties

>>130231201
>Free trade.
Free trade is removing all barriers to trade. Having wildly different legislations is a barrier to trade.

>Garbage.
Lol, you say a bunch of groundless crap, I point that out, and you claim I said garbage. Really makes me think.

>>130231408
>amount of communist revolutions since the beginning of the 20th century proves "it can't happen to us" to be wrong.
>socialist policies being overwhelmingly popular in the US.
Is that enough evidence?

>>130231356
>nice hypothesis you got there

read a book, nigger

>You truly don't get it. Dear God. Again, have you ever signed a contract in your life? You said yes, but your answers suggest the opposite. And, worse, you're talking about an agreement that's effectively akin to a constitution.

maybe you're the one who doesn't get it because you can't explain for shit what you're actually talking about. Private living agreements are not national constitutions, good god are you mental?

>It's like you're assuming there isn't a whole discipline called Law, whose entire goal is to solve all the problems you're assuming away.

you're the one assuming private law conveniently doesn't exist

>My point about the homo kid is on unpredictability

unpredictability that is still addressed and resolved peacefully. Your point is just nonsense and isn't any real critique of anything

>>130231568
>It's like they wouldn't delegate them to 3rd parties or something.

and that 3rd party is a private entity dumbass

>>130231921
it's not evidence unless I agree with it >:^)

>>130230890

>Again, you're copping out.

No I'm not. I gave you one example, not the ONLY example.

You tried to prove me wrong by saying that we don't manage reputation personally. I countered by saying we still do, but we mostly outsource today like to our landlord. This doesn't include other entities that may have an interest in reputation management such as police, insurance companies, employers and of course, people who care about who/what they interact with. And I shouldn't have to explicitly say this.

>I said today it's much harder to track reputation. You said it's not needed, and landlords and bankers would do it.

You're making this too complicated. There's not enough value to personally track everyone because society is mostly safe and 3rd parties are still doing it behind the scenes. I can trust my neighborhood because my landlord acts with discretion.

>The second is retarded because you're living out many relationships and many types of interactions.

Because this is absolutely irrelevant to anything. No one is stopping you from going to the store or making friends. But I guarantee you if you're a thief they'll use face detection against you.

>>130231921
Which "socialist" policies, in particular, are you referring to friend? Actual, enacted policies? What communist revolutions have occurred in the last two decades and why are there so few? It's not because it's not a legitimate threat, right?

>>130231568
>nice hypothesis you got there
Come back when you actually read some academic papers on the toxicity of welfare subsidies. You can argue me on the merits then, at this point you're just ignorant.

Basically you're arguing against the theory that "people act in their own interest based on incentives" which is pretty funny.

>Sure, there is no government. All those rules and agreements, and strict enforcement in a very tight community. And all the people would have the time and willingness to participate in all disputes. It's like they wouldn't delegate them to 3rd parties or something.

3rd parties they voluntarily chosen. Not 3rd parties arbitrarily assigned to them based on geographic boundaries and forced on them essentially at the point of a gun.

>>130232182
>socialized healthcare is extremely popular
>income tax
>minimum wage
>equal pay act
>civil rights act
>free college being popular
that's six examples; do you want more?

>>130231923
>read a book, nigger
I'd say the same thing, curiously. And I'd actually ask to read some papers on economics. But you probably don't believe it because you are too smart for those shills.

>Private living agreements are not national constitutions
In the specific case you're talking about of ancap societies, yes, they are.

>private law
Yes, all law is private law hahaha

>and that 3rd party is a private entity dumbass
that's irrelevant. you can think of the government today as being a private entity too using that framework

>>130232649
>In the specific case you're talking about of ancap societies, yes, they are.

nice semantics game

>Yes, all law is private law hahaha

never said that either lmao

>you can think of the government today as being a private entity
>government, a public entity, is actually a private entity

full retard my man, try again

>>130231880
>groundless crap
No you provided a shitty argument I pointed out WHY and you dodged the point. You're an idiot.

>Having wildly different legislations
Fuck you're retarded. Then they would structure it in a way that wasn't impeding trade. When you have so much competition between states that moving from one to another is incredibly easy, you can't just create a bureaucratic state. Also this imo shouldn't be considered ancap, I'm just defending a decentralized system of states now. An ancap system would have free trade.

>>130232649
>And I'd actually ask to read some papers on economics

I'd make a bet that I've read more economics papers than you have. And I also make a bet I have a better grasp on socialist and libertarian economic theory than you do.

>>130232592
>Come back when you actually read some academic papers on the toxicity of welfare subsidies. You can argue me on the merits then, at this point you're just ignorant.
Yes, let's assume the other side is ignorant. That'll work.

>Basically you're arguing against the theory that "people act in their own interest based on incentives"
I'm arguing people are not rational, especially because they can't handle information the way basic economic models assume they can. And that's exactly what you see often: the incentive is there, but nothing changes. Why? Because the person doesn't even know about it. Why? Because information is not costless.

>3rd parties they voluntarily chosen
no one cares about the parties but about the rules. The rules you're talking about are still based on pointing a gun. Nothing changed. You just private enforcers (and I'm assuming there is no problem here).

>>130232855
You just backed down on everything you said, then. You don't think through the implications of what you say. This is getting annoying.

>>130233374
>You just backed down on everything you said, then.

like what? everything I've been saying is consistent and valid

>You don't think through the implications of what you say.

such as? go on. I'll wait. You're like a punching bag just itching to get whammed time and time again

>>130233017
>Then they would structure it in a way that wasn't impeding trade.
>would
do you even know what you're saying? You say "fuck off, you're retarded" and then repeat the same thing I said lol

Why are you assuming production has no standards, no rules whatsoever? You don't even need the state for this. The firms if large enough have an incentive to standardize their products and methods of production to ease trade and movement of people and factors. That's why most of it is not even done today. Then, you're ignoring the issue of externalities where firms have no incentives to do anything if the other parties are decentralized.

>An ancap system would have free trade.
>Free trade is all about no quotas and no tariffs.

>>130233089
I'd bet you don't, actually.

>>130233707
>Free trade is all about no quotas and no tariffs.

*no central government-enforced quotas and tariffs

fixed that for you

>>130233684
Why are not the agreements to form an ancap society not going to literally follow the precepts of constitutional law?

>>130233897
it's wrong, anyway

free trade is about removing barriers to trade - all of them.

>>130233931
>>130233684
did a double negative there by mistake, but I think you got it

>>130233266
>Yes, let's assume the other side is ignorant. That'll work.

You've proven you were ignorant by the arguments you make. Anyone who isn't a fool can see.

>I'm arguing people are not rational, especially because they can't handle information the way basic economic models assume they can. And that's exactly what you see often: the incentive is there, but nothing changes. Why? Because the person doesn't even know about it. Why? Because information is not costless.

You mean how people purposely get welfare entitlements by not working a certain number of hours because the benefits are worth more than the money the more hours would make them. I literally saw this happen first hand at a job when someone was collecting social security benefits, they refused to work more than a certain number of hours a month.

>>130233751
Really because you sound like a fucking moron based on the interactions you've been having in this thread.

>>130233931
because it's done locally and privately, enforced the same way, instead of a state like what constitutional law normally entails. That's the beauty of private law; flexibility is there

>>130233990

yeah and anarchy is actually about removing hierarchy - all of them

nice semantics game again btw

why the fuck do we call ourselves "anarcho-capitalists"? I hate communists, but they do have a point when they say that it's an oxymoron.

>>130234132
>You mean how people purposely get welfare entitlements by not working a certain number of hours because the benefits are worth more than the money the more hours would make them.
That's not poverty for them though. And that's the argument you're making: that welfare perpetuates poverty.
You do have that and that's abusing the welfare system, not perpetuating poverty.

>Anyone who isn't a fool can see.
Perhaps it takes a fool not to see it.

>>130234192
>everyone who doesn't agree with me is a moron
>meanwhile, I will continue pretending I know anything about economics whilst I base an entire economic system on the reality of perfect information
ffs

>>130234259
>nice semantics game again btw
where are the semantics?

Don't you know what trade barriers are? Do you know what governments are even doing when they take fucking decades to sign a free trade agreement? Do you think current free trade agreements are merely setting up privileges for different companies? They aren't: governments are actively shilling for companies to standardize everything they do, so that an European company can easily open shop in the US and sell crap to americans without you even noticing the company is European. This has nothing to do with quotas, tariffs or even government regulations. The latter only come in for externalities and the like because firms have no incentive to abide by those rules.

>>130233707
>repeat the same thing I said
....
I said that even if a small state decides to have regulations it would hardly have an effect on trade you said it would be a bureaucratic nightmare. How the fuck is this repeating your point you utter moron? And it's just mind boggling that you would think bureaucracy is an argument against a libertarian system. Just what are you smoking?

>Why are you assuming production has no standards, no rules whatsoever?
Where the fuck did I say that?

>You don't even need the state for this.
Glad we agree.

>An ancap system would have free trade.
>Free trade is all about no quotas and no tariffs.
Your point?

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>>130234424
it's only an oxymoron if you use their definitions. Anarchy just means no central government, and capitalism is obviously the means of how resources are managed. With that in mind, it's pretty self-explanatory.

The same meme can be used on communists regarding Anarcho-Communism, which can be interpreted as a contradictory oxymoron if you use the Ancap definitions as no central state = no forced redistribution of resources. They'll go on and on about their convoluted systems redefining property again to what's convenient for them like "personal", "public", and "private" property but it's all the same mental gymnastics. Ancap is just the more streamlined intuitive option as far as any anarchy system goes

>>130234804
>I said that even if a small state decides to have regulations...
No, you said "they would structure it in a way that wasn't impeding trade", which is the vaguest possible way of saying what I said.

>you would think bureaucracy is an argument against a libertarian system
firms need rules too. firms benefit from standardizing rules. sometimes firms don't standardize because each of them is too small so you need someone to pay the initial cost of quick starting the whole process. That's the state, that's exactly what happens. They standardize. Trading between countries becomes easier.

>An ancap system would have free trade.
>Free trade is all about no quotas and no tariffs.
The second sentence is false. I'm claiming you're assuming it to be true.

>>130234777
and what's your point?

everything you've said can still come naturally without government though. This standardization flows similarly to how people already adopt globally-recognized languages like English without their state forcing them because it helps business. A government is not needed, despite how much it may try to shill itself a false sense of importance

>>130234424
anarchy means "no rulers"
Commies think that means no hierarchy/no inequality
We think it means no enslavement/no coercion. non-aggression.

>>130235325
>everything you've said can still come naturally without government though
for some industries, yes; for some industries, no.
It depends mainly on the technological structure of the industry. You don't intervene when they do it by themselves, but you do when they don't. Guess what: it's what happens today. And in the second case, the firms get on it willingly; and, no, they're not receiving handouts.

>>130235172
>they would structure it in a way that wasn't impeding trade
>wildly different legislation
Fucking idiot.

>Trading between countries becomes easier.
So that it passes regulation. If there's little or no regulations in these countries what's the point of the government telling these small companies what or how they should produce?

>I'm claiming you're assuming it to be true.
Most infuriating poster ever. 10/10 if troll.

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Helicopters are a Good Opition for Physical Removal

>>130235014
anarchy literally means "without hierarchy." Private property is hierarchical nature. For example, if you are on someone's property, you have to follow their rules and their will. This is a hierarchical structure that's inherent in property rights. Libertarians don't actually argue against hierarchy; we argue for hierarchy when it comes to property rights. Hopefully you don't misunderstand me; I don't think the state is legitimate, but I don't think "anarchist" is the proper term we should be using.

>>130235593
>for some industries, yes; for some industries, no.

nah, it applies all industries. The state just plays favorites to pander to special interests. If a business couldn't compete, it dies so one actually can -- hence why some already do it. The state however, organizes these regulations and rules in the instances where it does act to keep their buddies happy from lobbying so hard

>no, they're not receiving handouts.

pftt ahahaha yeah ok

>>130235742
>they would structure it in a way that wasn't impeding trade
>wildly different legislation
That's why I said you said the same thing I said. Note the second quote came before the first one. You're the idiot.

>government telling these small companies what or how they should produce?
Not what, but how. And the point is that you are minimizing the costs of entry in foreign markets. And the government doesn't need to force anything. It quick starts the whole process for industries which don't do it by themselves. And, yes, that's a thing no matter how much your ideology does not like it.

>>130235424
the root word of "anarchy" is "hierarchy", and the prefix is "an", which means "without." I hate to say it, but their definition is correct. They're just mistaken in assuming hierarchy is a bad thing.

>>130236119
You live in the world of basic microeconomic models. That's why the world seems much simpler to you. It would be, I agree with you, but only if those models were true in any fashion, which they are not.

That's probably why you should be reading actual economics books instead of economics in prose written by 2nd rate intellectuals.

>>130236014
>anarchy literally means "without hierarchy."

like I said, it also means "without government" too. At this point it simply goes to preference and opinion to how one interprets the word, but I think Anarcho-Capitalism is self-evident enough given proper context

>>130236320
>You live in the world of basic microeconomic models.

how so?

>That's why the world seems much simpler to you.

except that I never said the world is simple

>only if those models were true in any fashion, which they are not.
>government doesn't make laws that benefit special interest ever
>buyouts, bailouts, subsidies, literally state-sponsored and state-supported industries are all myths trust me

this is why I can't take you seriously

>That's probably why you should be reading actual economics books instead of economics in prose written by 2nd rate intellectuals.

nice assumptions faggot

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>>130236149
>Note the second quote came before the first one
I'm well aware of that you autistic retard.

>It quick starts the whole process for industries which don't do it by themselves.
I'll take the proven overall productivity of the free market that isn't hampered by bureaucrats over some silly quick-starting process.

>>130236283
-archy
>word-forming element meaning "rule," from Latin -archia, from Greek -arkhia "rule," from arkhos "leader, chief, ruler," from arkhe "beginning, origin, first place" (see archon).
do you have a citation for an etymology that differs from this?
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=-archy

>>130236581
>how so?
you: "nah, it applies all industries."

>government doesn't make laws that benefit special interest ever
They do. Never said the opposite. That makes it more complicated, m8.

>>130236933
>I'll take the proven overall productivity of the free market that isn't hampered by bureaucrats over some silly quick-starting process.
Then you don't care about efficiency.

>>130237071
>you: "nah, it applies all industries."

I'm not wrong. Just because one aspect is simple, doesn't mean as a whole it's still not complicated. Try again

>That makes it more complicated, m8.

which is why some of that unnecessary complication needs to stop

>>130237163
it's inefficient in the long-term because it's forced, rather than an organic development of the market. It's distorting it overall