How come lolbertarians can't be reasoned with? They're

>>130104829
interesting thing is tho, theirs is one of the only theories in which one's own ideology is recognized as better for oneself only ... commies want to impose their personal morality on all people and kill off large swathes of the population. libertarians just want to be left alone and have guns just in case

>>130104829
Reminder that if Rand had died yesterday that the next President would be a libertarian.

Ideologies can't be reasoned with.

liberal or conservative?

it's different, yanno

>>130105014
Not necessarily better for oneself though, considering that you'd have private toll roads, and you'd probably have to pay for fire or police insurance if you ever thought you'd need them.

>>130104829
Unlike commies, their idealogies haven't been tried, come on, what do you have to lose?
I mean, yeah, most of your rights, roads, probably your life, but hey it's better than living under a cucked country, whereas you can shoot niggers without repercussions, but I would be against that.
Just chain them up and sell them.
Mhmm, capitalism minus regulation.

>>130105088
Highly doubt that.
>>130105234
Not really, they're both bad for different reasons.

>>130104829
I hate that the Gadsden flag is so closely associated with the Libertarians. It represents something much bigger than that.

>>130104829
Who said we were infallible?
No one ideology has only upsides. There's always a worst case scenario where shit falls apart, it's just that our worst case is a lot more fun.
Who here would prefer 1984 dystopia to a Mad Max wasteland?

>>130105561
That's ancap faggot, they're different.

>>130105586

Same, we should take it back from those faggots.

>>130105586
>>130105598
Seriously all libertarians I've ever talked to think the free market can solve any major problem, like healthcare. That's been tried in many countries and even the US for the past 50+ years before the ACA, and it simply doesn't work.

>>130104829
I dont think most Gadsden flags are purist Libertarians. Just Right WIng smaller government types.

>>130105815
The AnCaps are probably more ideological libertarians. I could be wrong.

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>>130104829

>>130104829
Tell me what justifies the government to do things that would be completely unacceptable for a private individual or group to carry out, other than it being necessary.

>>130106454
Kind of a shitty argument, the government is elected by the people to run the country. They're given the right, through the vote, to run the country as they see fit.

>>130105815
No I get that the free market can cause problems in several areas. However, I keep finding that, atleast in the US, our federal government does far more harm than good in trying to correct this. Obamacare sure as hell didn't improve our healthcare.
>>130105955
>just right wing smaller government types
Is that not Libertarianism? I thought lack of government was An-Cap.

>>130106657
>elected by the people to ruin the country
ftfy
>run the country as they see fit.
Not given. They take that right because we, as a people, choose not to stop them.
Also liberal democracy is not the only model of a functional government.

>>130106708
Improved for some, made worse for others. You must admit that based on the numbers alone, more people have health coverage.

The very poor got the long end of the stick, it's the lower middle class that got the worst of it.

>>130105815
>America had a free market in healthcare.

This vicious meme spread by Bernie Sanders is poisoning our politics.

America has Medicare, Medicaid, VA, Tricare, each of which are single payer systems, and covered 50% of healthcare costs. That's right; America is half single-payer.

In addition the private healthcare market is writ large inaccessible except through employers, and is loaded to the top with regulations, licensing, and patents. Norway, Switzerland, and Singapore are far more market-based than the US in healthcare.

>>130105316
I pay for that shit anyway through taxes.

>>130106708
libertarianism is based on the NAP and private property rights. Private property is the only legitimate property, so the state cannot exist; however, I do believe that "anarchy" shouldn't be used to describe libertarians. Anarchy means without hierarchy, but the very existence of private property implies a hierarchy

>>130106657
Ok, so is it morally permissible for me to hold an event with an auditorium full of people where someone is elected by vote to rob a bank?

>>130106837
>implying health coverage is equivalent to health care
That's a bit of a stretch. Not that the health of the people was the primary concern of the bill's authors. The health metric of their concern was that of the insurance industry. Too many people weren't buying into their racket.
If the concern for the people's health were genuine, single payer would have been passed without compromise. But that's not the land of the hustle.

>>130106708
It's just labels really. There are overlaps. Murray Rothbard (pictured under Libertarian in the black graphic above) is associated with Ancap.

>>130106837
>more people have health coverage
What do you mean by coverage, exactly? I've spoken to a couple of people who work healthcare fraud, and they believe that most of the poor was already getting covered sufficiently under state healthcare laws. Additionally, most hospital bills for certain surgeries were getting forgiven by the hospitals themselves. Is this at all true?

>>130107020
Why do you hate intellectual property so much, if you like a free market?
>50% of health care costs
Would like some sauce for that number. I bet you're looking at $, not persons covered.

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>>130104829
Libertarians have actual statistical data and real life proof supporting their side.

What do fascists have? All they do is call everyone who proves them wrong a Jew.

>>130106837
>The very poor got the long end of the stick, it's the lower middle class that got the worst of it.
So they robbed the least powerful productive class of society to pay for parasites so that the parasites would vote for them. Why would I want to give these assholes more power over me?

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>>130108318

I'm not against all IP, just patents, and some more abusive forms of copyrights.

And yes, 40-50% of the costs, not people are single payer.

>>130104829

I think part of it is because a true libertarian hasn't really been implemented in any significant scale.

Imagine for a moment a government that ensures your liberties and actually leaves you the fuck alone....

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>>130105815
But we don't have a free market for healthcare.

>>130108670
That's fair, but bear in mind that old people, poor people, veterans, and service personnel are high-cost groups. One of the goals of Medicare-for-All was to broaden the risk pool while still driving down rates for everyone through administrative cost reduction and alignment of incentives. Instead the health care companies got a license to grab up to 20% of premiums paid for themselves.
kek nice memeball

>>130105316
>police, roads, and firefighters are all free :DDDD
Oh my god, state-babbies are so braindead.

You already do pay for all that. Except now, you only have to pay for them when you need them instead of continually, and it's cheaper because it is provided by the free market without the unnecessary overhead of bureaucracy.

God, I hate moderate statist retards. At least fascists take their ideology to the extreme, recognize and accept their slave status. Meanwhile moderate statists are stolen from, then given a small portion of their money back in piss-poor services, and then consider the state a godsend because they think they are getting irreplaceable services for free.

Fascists, if you do win, can you at least agree to kill these fucks too?

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>>130108967
Bitch nigga, there will always be enough government there somewhere for you to claim "not really free". Just grow some nuts and be an ancap, everyone's sick of your shit.

>>130109203
>pay for them only when needed
>hasn't heard of price gouging
>hasn't heard of surge pricing
You might drop the pompous intellectual posture. The facts as observed aren't doing you any favors.
>unnecessary overhead of bureaucracy
>hasn't heard of executives
>hasn't heard of profit
Nah.

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>>130109297
It's only gotten more expensive since we've gotten the government involved.

>>130108967
what about those that either have made a mistake or could not afford should they die are they not your people?

>>130109519
>ignoring the fact that all those other countries have government way more involved than here
gold star for you

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>>130109621
Go to a charity hospital.

>>130109519
its getting more expensive because treatment is getting expensive also people stop taking care of themselfs

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>>130109703
>ignoring the point entirely
Good job

>>130104829

Because they are as dumb as commies.
Both promote a completely anti-natural ideology. In fact; capitalism and communism are just two sides of the same shekel.

Both societies would result in the same in the long run.

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>>130109732
>it's getting more expensive because it's getting more expensive
Uhhh...do you want to rephrase that sentence maybe?

>>130104829
It is not that the ideology is better, it is that most other ideologys tend to tread on me

>>130108670
>I'm not against all IP, just patents, and some more abusive forms of copyrights.

Then you will get no more IP - includin kick ass games. That shit costs money to make

>>130104829
Not a lolbertarian, but why would anyone hold an ideology if they didn't believe it was the best one?
>>130109203
>Fascists, if you do win, can you at least agree to kill these fucks too?
Will do.

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>>130109770
>thinking you made a point when you actually BTFO of yourself, then complaining that the person you're arguing with is missing the point you actually destroyed with the post you made trying to make the point in the first place

>>130109497
If you don't pay for something continually, yes, you'll pay more for it when you do pay for it.

Thing is, you'll have so much more money since you won't have so much taxed away from you into a bureaucratic nightmare, feeding some fat politician who doesn't give enough of a fuck to do his job properly.

>unnecessary overhead of bureaucracy
>hasn't heard of executives
>hasn't heard of profit
Those two concepts have nothing to do with government. If you're going for the "oh well businesses have their own demons!" profit rewards efficiency and executives run shit.

And facts? Don't bring those up. They aren't on your side, commie.

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>>130110030
>government is not involved in healthcare
>healthcare is cheap
>government gets involved in healthcare
>healthcare becomes expensive
Do I need to dumb it down for you more or is it starting to click?

>>130109874
i guess i could have put it a bit different i know there is a lot of private research and that is fine but to rely completly on the mercy of strangers is not a good ideia also there is medical research that or just reasearch that goverment is better at funding the one with no imediate profit also you attribute the rising cost just to government and that is not true medication its self has been getting more expensive its self

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>>130110377
>but to rely completly on the mercy of strangers is not a good ideia
Why not? There's thousands of Catholic hospitals scattered throughout the world, people seem to trust them for some reason.

Also you need to slow down, or learn English better, or something. You're very hard to understand.

>>130110159
Are you really this thick?

All those countries you posted where healthcare is much cheaper than here have much more government involvement. So how does your post show that government is the problem? Does it not show the opposite?

Also do you even know what the axes are on that chart? Are you just trolling me? Sadly I think not.

Anyway, keep harping on your counterfactual world where government doesn't do anything and you just know it'd be great even though it's never existed and hasn't been tried.

>>130104829
How come pirates are such gigantic faggots?

>>130109837
BIGGER
>>130110076
>Thing is, you'll have so much more money since you won't have so much taxed away from you into a bureaucratic nightmare, feeding some fat politician who doesn't give enough of a fuck to do his job properly.
Oh will I? You don't think I'll be paying some monopolist landlord who doesn't give enough of a fuck to do his job properly, as much as I can bear, just because he can?
You seem to be trying to sell me the notion that private enterprise doesn't stink and isn't parasitic.
Profit rewards efficiency, but service is antithetical to efficiency. No prizes for guessing where that ends up.
Right at the DMV nightmare you all keep citing.

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>>130110654
It did get more expensive for those countries after they got the government involved though. Even when praising the healthcare of other countries your still praising a system that lead to higher costs.

>>130110628
need to learn it better i did teach my self how to speak it so grammar was not a part of it

>>130110862
>It did get more expensive for those countries after they got the government involved though
which correlates with a lot of new treatments, longer lifespans, etc.

Social insurance and medical technology are both things societies have when the become wealthier. That's the cause of both trends, increased government involvement in healthcare and increased healthcare costs.

But taken by itself, as your chart shows, government involvement in healthcare lowers costs. Which makes sense, I mean how is some sick person going to be an informed, free-to-choose consumer? Why would you expect a free market to work for it?

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>>130105561
>whereas you can shoot niggers without repercussions, but I would be against that.
>Just chain them up and sell them.

You've never heard of the non-aggression principle have you, Squidward?

>>130110820
>Oh will I? You don't think I'll be paying some monopolist landlord who doesn't give enough of a fuck to do his job properly, as much as I can bear, just because he can?
He loses customers, who can't afford to pay his ridiculously high rent, loses business, and quickly gets supplanted by a more realistic landlord. Competition gives you better and better.

Furthermore, unlike natural resources, to hold a monopoly over apartments you would have to hold a monopoly over all apartment buildings that have been and will be. Such a thing is only possible if a state were intervening to stop other business owners from getting in on the action with regulations.

Monopolies form due to state intervention in the market.

>You seem to be trying to sell me the notion that private enterprise doesn't stink and isn't parasitic.
You seem to be under the delusion that market forces don't act on business owners, limiting greed. A business that becomes to greedy gets supplanted by a business that offers a better deal, because there is no government acting as a gatekeeper to any industry.

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Whats stopping leftycucks from setting up a metastate within an ancap region? I never got what the issue is. If you wanna get together and pay for achmed's fullride, go ahead - just leave the rest of us out of it.

>>130109497
>price gouging
Name an instance of price gouging in a free market.

>>130111489
>He loses customers, who can't afford to pay his ridiculously high rent, loses business, and quickly gets supplanted by a more realistic landlord. Competition gives you better and better.
Fantasy. Where is the competition going to come from when land and homes in general, not just apartments, can be privately owned without limit? Why wouldn't the rich collude just the same as today and offer only leases, not proper sales? What, exactly, forces them to compete in your fantasy world?
Wealth's natural tendency is to concentrate.
>You seem to be under the delusion that market forces don't act on business owners, limiting greed
You seem to be under the delusion that market forces work at all, in particular, that information asymmetry is not enabled by markets, and that powerful people do not have class interests more in common than in conflict. It is the widespread recognition of those class interests that enables ruling classes to form.
Now, outside of this sort of weak, non-binding moral expectation that the owners compete, what makes you think that they wouldn't form oligopolies and pretend to compete like professional wrestlers do?

>>130109203
this goy gets it. also we wont need roads once we all have McHelicopters

>>130111848
data caps

>>130111848
>>130113303
but US is a regulated market. Ignore me; i'm drunk

fuck ISPs

>>130112531
>Now, outside of this sort of weak, non-binding moral expectation that the owners compete, what makes you think that they wouldn't form oligopolies and pretend to compete like professional wrestlers do?
Because there is profit to be had by actually competing. When you don't artificially restrict business, every hungry-ass motherfucker is going to seize on inefficiencies and resolve them with competition for their own benefit as well as the consumer's benefit. This happens all the time in even our butchered form of capitalism. It will be even better with less government interference.

I get it, you think people lack agency, because you yourself lack agency and think papa gov needs to step into every little aspect to make sure someone doesn't win too hard, not realizing that in a free system, the person who wins the hardest is also doing the best, because they aren't being propped up by shit legislation and red tape.

We're all adults, we can compete like ones. We don't need teacher to come in and make sure everyone gets participation trophies.

>>130105014

Naw we believe it would be better for almost everyone, and for those it wouldn't be better for... well, nothing could have save them anyway.

>>130109497

SHUT THE FUCK UP COMMIE. NO ONE WANTS TO LIVE UNDER YOUR GLORIFIED DYSGENICS PROGRAM OF AN IDEOLOGY.

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>>130111619
They've tried that and it doesn't work. (Google Israeli Kibbutzim.) Why doesn't it work?

Because they are postmodernists opposed to all hierarchy, (i.e. social structure) and therefore they are totalitarians that want control over EVERYONE ELSE'S LIFE — not just their own, in the case of a libertarian or an ancap. They're not JUST opposed to involuntary, external state control — that is, they don't just want everyone to be free... because otherwise they'd be ancaps:

The free market is a phenomenon that arises from freedom: People naturally exchange value (whether money, barter, service, etc.) for goods they deem valuable. From that, arises supply and demand, and prices. That's the most intuitive way to allocate scarce resources that have alternate uses. It's the way free people naturally organize themselves.

Otherwise, the voluntary socialist kibbutzim in Israel, and the hippy communes wouldn't all eventually dissolve, and socialism/communism wouldn't need to be enforced by the state. There also wouldn't be any such thing as black markets, either. Capitalism/free markets — since they arise from free exchange — would require totalitarianism to suppress. So if you're an anarcho-communist, you'd need enforced anarchy (a self-evident contradiction). And if you're simply against all hierarchy, you would again need to enforce anarchy.

To prevent natural social hierarchies and structures and capitalism from forming, you'd need to use an external force — the state — to tear them down. Because hierarchies form naturally and in all forms of creative output (look up the pareto and natural distributions), you'd need totalitarianism to enforce anarchy... which is self-evidently impossible.

You can't be an pro freedom without being pro free market.

>>130104829
Isn't that every political ideology tho?

>>130113546
>Because there is profit to be had by actually competing
But there is less risk to be had by colluding. Which one leads to a more stable place in society? You're assuming interests that don't actually exist, and Yyou're ignoring the well-documented psychological phenomenon of loss aversion.
>cheap psychoanalysis
>We're all adults, we can compete like ones
Why would we? There's less risk in not doing so. Nobody needs authorities to simply not compete, despite what you have heard. The competitive psychopath can be taken care of by the community themselves.

>>130114853
Enough people do that you have to continually play dirty pool against them, lie to them, constrain their options, prevent them from accumulating enough resources, in order to prevent them from forming that community.
Are all capitalists lying piece of shit that need to be hanged on meat hooks and beaten like piñatas, or just you?

>>130115180

PARASITE

https://mises.org/library/myth-natural-monopoly

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>>130105815
>US healthcare for the last 50 years was free market
I think the lolbergs are dumb too but please stahp making stupid claims. This is Bernout-tier idiocy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6t-R3pWrRw

>>130115490
>a dead guy's polemics
What's that have to do with that it's always more profitable to collude than to compete? If it weren't, there wouldn't have to be anti-trust laws.

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>>130115023
I appreciate the rundown, guess i was being overly simplistic in thinking that if *-coms were to sign a contract or whatever to give their souls to the machine, itd be within the NAP. Anyways thanks I'll read about the kikeutzim tomorrow. Stay strong against the hoard of /leftypol/ brother.

>>130110005
A reform of IP laws and removing some versio s of it is not the same as havi g no IP laws. If you think the copyright system is anywhere near in it's best state, then you need to get your head checked. Just look at the copyright system on youtube; plethoras of 99% original content get taken down because it had a few seconds of a song made by a long dead artist who has already made it.

>>130104829
It's a fucking cult, like every political ideology. Though they're still more reasonable than most nazis
They're generally the most reasonable if they're on the right. If they're left "libertarians" them they're basically retards

>>130115925

Not true commie. All so called "natural monopolies" are fractal offspring of the arbitrary monopoly on authority we grant to the state via mob rule.

>>130110005
>what is linux
>muh kick-ass games
Go outside, anon. Entertaining you is a waste of labor.

>>130110005

Nope.

https://wiki.mises.org/wiki/Without_Intellectual_Property

https://wiki.mises.org/wiki/Intellectual_property

>>130116663
>not true
>commie
Not even an argument.
>All so called "natural monopolies" are fractal offspring of the arbitrary monopoly on authority we grant to the state via mob rule.
Now that's just word salad. The rule of force would lead to very similar conclusions. What does the collusion of separate similar but distinct interests have to do with monopoly, natural or otherwise? You're floating in the wind, leaf.

>>130116974

ALL NATURAL MONOPOLIES ARE FRACTAL OFFSPRING OF THE ARBITRARY MONOPOLY ON AUTHORITY WE GRANT TO THE STATE VIA MOB RULE.

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>>130104829

>>130117269
What natural monopoly are you referring to, exactly? Or is this some sort of liturgy I'm supposed to sing with you?

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>>130112531
>>130115925

When a group of businesses form a cartel, they almost instantly dissolve on their own. Here's why:

>People are greedy.
>Businesses are run by people.
>So, businesses are greedy.
>Because they are greedy, businesses compete for money.
>The vast majority of businesses compete with prices.
We'll leave competing based on value-delivery and marketing out of this, for simplicity's sake.
>When businesses form a cartel, each member agrees to a set price, and they divide the market.
>Being greedy, each business wants more than his agreed upon marketshare.
>So one or more businesses undercuts the other members of the price-fixing cartel.
>Cutting his prices earns him more marketshare.
>Thus, he earns more than he would by participating in the cartel.
>The other cartel members become upset at being undercut and losing marketshare.
>They compete on prices and value.

Or someone starts a new business with better prices and/or better products and the cartel falls apart from without as well as from within.

Or, what will sometimes happen when there's one business and no competitors — like back when there was one aluminum supplier in the US — there aren't any competitors because there's no demand for any. Sometimes one business hits the sweet spot of the ideal price, the ideal value, and the ideal niche... the customers are happy enough with that business that nobody can compete.

In principle, there's nothing wrong with that... UNLESS... there's an arbitrary barrier to new competition. This is virtually always created with help from the state, as is the case with ISPs. The only other way a business could arbitrarily prevent competition is with force — which would violate the NAP and be dealt with swiftly in a libertarian/minarchist/ancap society.

Either way, in a free market, the average dude (customers and workers) wins.

>>130116429
You're welcome. I knew there had to be some reason I effortpost.

o7

>>130104829
So what if I think I'm better than you. Liberatarianism is about non-intervention and voluntarism.

I'll support Facism as long as leftism exists though.

The real debate is between Fascism and Libertarianism but we can't have it until all leftist scum is purged.

>>130105561
>Ancap.

>>130117813
What the fuck are you talking about? The problem with the leftists is that they're collectivist. The whole point of fascism is collectivism.

>>130117580
>People are greedy
Crashed right out of the gate. The ruling class recognizes their class interest and exhibit class solidarity. That's why they win and the rest of us lose.
How can you be this easily fooled by their palace intrigue?

>>130109874
>little white fanny packs

>>130117971

This. Hitler was just Bernie Sanders + Ethnonationalism.

Gibs me dat for white ppl only.

>>130109519
You seem to have forgotten the Hill-Burton act that funded community hospitals, in order to ensure that care would be made available. Now we have consolidation.

>>130117971
>collectivism is leftism
Not entirely. Leftism is the product of inferior people assuming that they are equal. It's the fundamental assumption that race, class and ability do not exist. Fascism is the best system if a state had to exist.

Fascism did a better job at purging commie scum than we did and they also preserved race.

The problem with a lot of Libertarians is that they are too principled that they won't resort to any authoritarian measures to truly secure a Libertarian future for whites.

>>130118284
You are confusing National Socialism with Fascism. They are not the same thing.

>>130105316
>>130104829

You're thinking of ancaps. Libertarians aren't muh roads, they're the doodweed of the right-wing

>>130105561
Communism has never been tried.

>>130118690
It must be great, not knowing what the libertarian philosophy is based on.

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>>130118714
That joke never gets old

>>130104829
Successful libertarianism requires too much self control for upwards of 80% of people.

>>130119664

If only we could convince the other 20% to gather in one geographic area.

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>>130120220
There's always seasteading/spacesteading

>>130120434

They would just get accused of being tax havens.

Why is it that the libertarian ideology cannot appeal to europeans?

>>130120664

It was invented by Scots, that's why.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Enlightenment

>>130109519
All those other countries have fully socialized single payer govt healthcare

>>130120664
Because getting rid of social safety nets is retarded.

>>130104829
It will only work in a society free of kikes and niggers.

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>>130120581
Let the accusations come, we'd be swimming in wealth, who cares what the world thinks of us?

>>130120664
They're brainwashed by the EU to believe that big government is good and freedom is bad

>>130121127

We would be completely blocked from all global trade.

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>>130104829
You're a pirate nigga. The ULTIMATE Libertarian.

>>130105316
Libertarian=/Ancap.

>>130118284
>a fucking leaf
wrong national socialism may have somewhat leftist economics but socially its right wing, traditional, and anti marxist.

>>130121708
Aye thats the spirit lad.

DO WHAT YOU WANT CUZ A PIRATE IS FREE
YOU ARE A PIRATE

>>130104829
I think they're a necessary evil. Without them, I think that either party, or any future party will become tyrannical without them.

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>>130121851

Leftist economics is the WORST PART. Leftist economics is what makes leftist social policies even possible in the first place.

Step 1. Make the entire population dependent on the central government for basic services
Step 2. Force them to embrace degenerates less they want to lose access to those basic services.

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>>130121893
Hey we're the top-tier flag on /pol/.
That counts for a lot.

>>130120664
Because it will lead to feodalism and we already had that

>>130122214
>we're the top-tier flag on /pol/
And I wouldn't have it any other way. Its a shame nobody plays along when I try and go full pirate.

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>>130118714
>my utopian society is better than all those other utopian societies

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>>130118183
>The ruling class recognizes their class interest and exhibit class solidarity.

Let's ignore class churn and upward mobility for a second... I wanna know if I'm understanding you...

Just to be clear... you're saying the "ruling class" acts PRIMARILY in their own interest? You mean that they're putting their OWN interests ABOVE the interests of everyone else? In other words, the bourgeoisie want to work to gain things for themselves MORE than they want to work to gain things for others? Am I right in saying that they're SELFISH in the pursuit of their goals — that they JEALOUSLY guard their place in the social hierarchy?

Because if you think "greed" or "self interest" isn't the right term for that... well... I've gotta wonder if English is your first language.

>>130122042
Nobody cares about your penis envy, Bobby.
>>130125617
You misunderstand me. Class interest is the correct term for that, because they will give and take amongst themselves, not necessarily willingly in all cases, to ensure an optimal outcome for the class as a whole. Within that structure they don't even have to pursue self-interests, as they're already catered to.
Nice try, though.

>>130126055
>Class interest is the correct term for that, because they will give and take amongst themselves, not necessarily willingly in all cases, to ensure an optimal outcome for the class as a whole. Within that structure they don't even have to pursue self-interests, as they're already catered to.

Oh... Okay. Can you tell me why you believe that's the way the world works?

>>130104829
because it's the party of the founding fathers.

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>>130126055
Aside from my personal observations and the world of professional wrestling, I can only point to the lack of serious consequences for not pursuing self-interest, the broad networks of connections between any two people in the ruling class, and the clear quids pro quo that make up politics today. Also, consider the book to the left, which I am still working through, which explains how dotted-line relationships explain better the range of actual outcomes than nominal institutional forces.
tl;dr: if they competed amongst themselves, they'd have to compete with us too.

>>130127570
>ruling class
I think it should be noted that ancaps are also against the ruling class, in the sense that they are the political class and necessarily violate the NAP in order to maintain their status as such. The difference is that commies define anyone with money as the ruling class, because muh capital muh exploitation muh alienation of labor value.

How do libertarians combat theft or murder? How do titles for possessions work? What if someone monopolizes a business and jack their prices up 100x? What if your employer refuses to pay you? Im not trying to bait just curious how these would work under a libertarian regime.

>>130128206

When you ask 4 different questions like that you're just going to get a bunch of lazy/generally bad answers because it's too much to ask for casual conversation.

Just go to mises.org if you're really interested.

But I will address the topic of monopoly, of the most important fundamental presuppositions of austo-libertarian thought is the idea that all so-called "natural monopolies" are in reality the fractal offspring of the arbitrary monopoly on authority we grant to the state via democracy (mob rule).

https://mises.org/library/myth-natural-monopoly

In essence, the modern nation state is not a form of rational governance at all, rather it is simply cult behaviour on a massive scale in a very literal sense.

>>130112863
But what will my McTank drive on then?

>>130129199

He said we won't need roads, but of course there will be plenty of McRoads.

>>130128206
>How do libertarians combat theft or murder?
Self defense and private security agencies, almost the same way as people do now.

>How do titles for possessions work?
Private courts.

>What if someone monopolizes a business and jack their prices up 100x
That is not a real thing in a free market.

>What if your employer refuses to pay you
Take him to court for a breach of contract?

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>>130129474
DURRRRRr
WHO wILL PAve OUR RoaDs.

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>>130127570
Oh! Dude... 2 things:

1. What you're objecting to is socialism/communism but among the upper echelons of a very specific power cult.

2. Your enemy isn't the "bourgeoisie" or capitalism or the left or the right. It's the Jews.

Well, not ALL the Jews per se, but rather the zionists waging a holy war against non-zionists. There are some zionists that aren't Jews, and there are some Jews that aren't zionist, but if you follow the money and influence, it leads back to Jewish supremacists. (So, to say "it's not the (just) Jews" is correct in a strictly technical sense, but it's such a nitpicky distinction that you may as well not make it. Well, at the very top, the oldest families, those guys aren't Jewish at all. This whole thing predates Judaism — and subsequently helped create it, shape it, and took it over.)

Read pic related and tell me if this sounds like the goals of the people you're talking about.

Also this:
https://media. (cripple chan) .net/pdfs/src/1470724007038-1.pdf

And listen to all 4 in this series:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57JGrQ2wJlA

And this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzoaxTudJks

Seriously. Look at the names of the people at the top and behind the scenes who are practicing this cult of power. You'll be shocked at how many bergs and steins you find. It's deeper than class structure. Older than capitalism.

I hope you take this red pill, because it will make many dark — very dark — things clearer to you. Godspeed, Anon.

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>>130105014
I want to kill those who impose (even on principle, aka communists) on my freedoms. Libertarian fascism is the only possible way to rule a government as humanly possible to an utopia.

>>130105561
What rights? What the fuck are you on? What a retarded loaded argument

>>130128206
>How do libertarians combat theft or murder? How do titles for possessions work?

Watch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0IEQmuaJeew to understand how law and order works in a voluntary society. It will answer most of your questions.

As to the monopoly thing, read >>130117580.

And if you really want to understand, read (listen to) Basic Economics:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQiBD-crrvA

>>130110862
Burgerland paramedic here. America for profit insurance based Healthcare is fucked in more ways than I can count. If yiu think the free market fixes ot or has led to lower cost or better quality you are deluding yourself

>>130105316
Libertarian means there is a very small government, get ancap memes out of your head.

>>130104829
Aren't pirates pretty close to right libertarian though?

>>130130295
You've really been around lately.

>>130128201
>What you're objecting to is socialism/communism but among the upper echelons of a very specific power cult.
I'm objecting to the fact that they get gibs and we fight each other to the death.
>protocols
Given a quick skim, it sounds about right, but frankly I wouldn't trust the presumably Christian or otherwise upper echelons either and don't believe the Founding Fathers were interested in the general welfare to their own detriment (Federalist Papers #10). I will look them over at my leisure. Thanks anon.

Pure Ancap is crazy and impossible.

Implementing Ancap features into government can be very positive because it lowers requirement of government.

Any form of Anarchy is crazy. You need a certain level of Authoritarian government depending on the Geographic lo location/size, population, age of state, and races of relevancy(higher black, higher government etc..).

What happened in the US became too capitalist and then a authoritarian control state was established by Bush leading a more authoritarian state by Obama.

Any huge company is globalist by best interest. They need more people and want to pay them the minimum.

I'm too drunk to continue on correcting spelling errors and trying to be reasonable.

Fuck Australians and Europeans. You deserve death for your weakness.

>>130109203
sure

>>130130606
What did he mean by this?

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>>130130541
Pirate ships were floating constitutional republics. They had ships articles that detailed the rights and responsibilities of each crew member, the shares of the plunder, and the process of changing who's captain.

Most pirate ships voted on what to do, and most pirate ships voted on the captain. The world of pirates and piracy was something like ancap except that non-pirates weren't protected by the NAP.

>tfw the founding fathers were basically pirates on steroids

>>130130791
>presumably Christian
No. Not at all.

>or otherwise
You're getting warmer.

>don't believe the Founding Fathers were interested in the general welfare to their own detriment

America was never designed to be a zero sum game. Life doesn't have to be a zero sum game either.

Remember to be intellectually honest and pursue truth no matter how much of your old beliefs/worldview/current self has to die. It hurts and can fuck you up big time. If you ever find yourself falling into nihilism and/or an existential crisis, listen to Jordan Peterson's lecture series on youtube called Maps of Meaning. They were helpful tools in rebuilding myself. VERY worthwhile.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL22J3VaeABQAT-0aSPq-OKOpQlHyR4k5h