This thread is for Discussion of Capitalism, Libertarianism,

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Listen up folks, I'm gonna try and put together a cuck left LOLberg vs edgy dank right Libertarian video. If any of you could post LOLberg cringe/edgy rightlib videos and images it would be much appreciated.

>>128873429
As far as cringe goes I already have naked guy, Marc Feldman's very Jewish pro-multiculturalism rant and McAffe's "Shane on you white people" video.

>>128873868
*Shame

Today we learned that a bank in Spain was in catastrophic shape and had to be bought by Santander for 1€, assuming massive debts and fucking up thousands of investors.

This bank was tested by the European Central bank less than 1 year ago, which gave it a good qualification.

ECB just ruined thousands of families and nobody is giving a shit, 0 responsibility.

Central bankers MUST be the first to fall on the day of the helicopter.

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>>128875299
Agreed, may the day of the removal come soon and cleanse this Earth of central banks.

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Is this the designated commies btfo thread?

>>128875921
Yes.

>>128874831

lol "classical liberalism" as the first liberalism. Nice try, bro.

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>>128877266
It is tho, commie "Libertarians" aren't Libertarian.

>>128877008
Remember to post this picture every time some faggot claims

>We only want Scandinavian welfare state

>>128877891

That makes libertarians the true left.

>>128878304
No we're the true Right. Passio be with you. Totalitarians of any flavor are the true left.

>>128877891
SUPER MALE VITALITY

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>>128878304
>>128878452

>>128878452

Your poles are reversed, bro. Why so directional?

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>>128878477
Mfw Alex ODs on super male vitality in three years.

>>128878452
Fucking this. Every statist is a collectivist, putting the well being of some abstract concept like "the greater good" or the government over the interests of the individual. The moment you deny a individual to pursue his own interests you become a filthy commie. that's why NatSocs aren't better than commies in the long run, they put the volk above themselves.

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hey senpaitachi, do you know any good podcasts like this guy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7h39RBf560

Educational not in an academic sense (which rents no value in life), but in a practical one to enjoy the decline

kk thx bai

>>128878452
>Totalitarians of any flavour are the true left
>>128879132
>Every statist is a collectivist

Tell that to Pinochet retards

>>128879132

That makes individualists the true liberals. That means libertarianism is properly seen as the true left. Liberalism is left, period. Libertarians were the first liberals, also known as "classical liberals." Totalitarianism/authoritarianism is right. That is the scale. Natsocs/commies both belong on the right.

>>128879678
>Going full retard.
Not even once.

>>128878665
Advocates for centrally planned economic policies and democracy situated themselves at the left of the King during the french revolution.

That's where left and right terms come from. There's nothing left about our movement in that regard.

>>128879543
>pinochet was a statist
He is the best example of a minarchist. One person had all the power, but that power wasn't very much, since he gave up on many priviliges other rulers would have in such a situation. Property rights and personal liberties were protected unless you were a commie who violated the NAP in the first place. He could only act within a given political framework and wasn't able to infringe on the rights of the individual, nor did he want to. Just because his rule wasn't democratic doesn't mean that it was statist. A minarchy is inherently anti democratic.

>>128879678
You burgers should never have appropriated the term liberal. Here in Europe it always meant (mostly) the same as libertarian, but you needed your own special word. You just created a whole lot of confusion. Almost as bad as soccer/football or chips/crisps/fries. Fucking English, I tell you.

>>128873204
Jews use capitalism to run the world through national and personal debt, high interest loans, large coorporations and banks. In the top 1% of the USA 43% are Jews. The only way to destroy the international Jew is to abolish capitalism. You literally cannot refute this.
>SUPPORTING CAPITALISM MEANS SUPPORTING JEWS

>>128880466
>national debt
>capitalism

9 words and you're already contradicting yourself.

>>128879976

>>And Rothbard is surely right in thinking that what we now call free-market libertarianism was originally a left-wing position. The great liberal economist Frédéric Bastiat sat on the left side of the French national assembly, with the anarcho-socialist Proudhon.

https://mises.org/library/rothbards-left-and-right-forty-years-later

Going full retard would be claiming that libertarianism is authoritarian by saying it belongs on the right.

>>128880042
>Advocates for centrally planned economic policies and democracy situated themselves at the left of the King during the french revolution.
>That's where left and right terms come from. There's nothing left about our movement in that regard.


See

>>128880657

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>>128880466
>Jews use government funded market manipulation and bribes towards a political elite only existing because of the state in order to stay in power
>somehow this is free market capitalism

>>128880352

You do realize that I agree with you, right? The commies hijacked the left and now burgers think the left is commie.

>>128880352

Moreso, before commies had a foothold, labor movements were libertarian. May Day was originally American. The term "libertarian" was created to make a distinction from the communist hijacking of the term liberal. Blame the commies.

>>128873204
pollution is a violation of the NAP and must be settled by a fine (tax)

>>128880947
Left and right is not really usable anymore because of all the changes. I know where you are getting from, with the early left being anti monarchists and the right being the reactionaries that wanted to keep the king in power. This changed into the whole capitalism vs communism. But now you can't change that back, since it is starting to change once again. Nazis are considered right aswell, despite having leftist economic positions. Also, many AnCaps and libertarians feel a way bigger connection towards monarchists than towards other "anachists" or moderate libertarians thanks to Hoppe. We need to abandon the whole left-right nonsense, it won't get us anywhere and will only get us associated with people that couldn't be futher away from us ideologically speaking.

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>>128881180
The father of the American progressive era was more libertarian than not

>>128881431

That because libertarians were the original leftists. The progressive era began a deviation from libertarianism. George's ideas about taxation are authoritarian when compared to actual libertarianism. However, Georgists are not responsible for the shitfest that the left has become today. Regardless, all of this strengthens my point.

>>128881311
Tax is not the same as a fine. Sorry bud.

>>128881385
>ny AnCaps and libertarians feel a way bigger connection towards monarchists than towards other "anachists" or moderate libertarians thanks to Hoppe. We need to abandon the whole left-right nonsense, it won't get us anywhere and will only get us associated with people that couldn't be futher away from us ideologically speaking.

I'm not convinced that "you can't change it back." How did it get changed to begin with? Although I sympathize with abandoning the left-right nonsense, stopping people from using labels altogether is a much tougher task than modifying the labels.

Hoppe is far more liberal than Hoppefags want to believe. For instance, his "closed borders" stance is predicated upon individual property rights. Some people will want open borders, some won't. Hoppe would agree with this. Many hoppefags think he is more pragmatic than he really is. He argues in favor of not compromising on libertarian principles that hoppefags (and natsoc) find inconvenient.

>>128880772
Proudhon claimed property was theft.

Bastiat did great work in economic matters, but he was way too much of a democrat to be /ourguy.

We oppose Proudhon way more than we adhere to Bastiat. We would never sit next to him.

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>>128881893
its not authoritarian if you accept the commons. The LVT is simply enforcing the peoples right to the commons and the tax a rightful debt.

>>128881180
Libertarian have been made to rebrand liberals, but I am not a liberal. It's us Paleolibertarians/right Libertarians that are hijacking the title now.

>>128882741

The libertarian response to this is that the commons is fine, but you don't need to tax it. However, not all land is ipso facto common. Private ownership is also possible.

>>128882553
I am aware the he advocates for people's right to open their borders of their own property, but keep in mind that he also thinks that through these kind of mistakes unwanted people weed themselves out on their own. If you allow one group of people to associate, you have to allow others the same. if they are degenerates that aren't capable of providing for themselves, they'll die. Simply put, it's etnic/ideological cleansing through social/economic darwinism rather than through genocide. It's simply a different approach, so I wouldn't really say that it makes him that much more of a liberal.

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>lolbertarians
i want your stuff lol
NAP doesn't exist

>>128882434
both are money
both change person to person or business to business
>muh taxation is theft
theft implies ownership rights
rights don't exist without government to enforce those rights
theft doesn't exist without government to define and prosecute theft

try again noob

>>128882553
If someone believes Hoppe advocates for closed borders after reading Hoppe, then he didn't understand anything, he advocates freedom, and in the case of borders, it can mean closed or open, depending on the property owner.

BUT, one can easily foresee how a covenant with closed borders and vetted immigration will easily surpass economically societies with open borders, and market optimization would lead to higher % of borders being closed (markets replicate good ideas).

>>128882741
land is a God-given resource so trying to own or use land is a violation of the NAP
try again

>>128882710

Haters gonna hate. Proudhon makes distinctions between personal property and private property. Is is fallacious, yes, but you miss the point when you hate on him without doing your homework. He is more of an ally than you give him credit for. I'd prefer Proudhon over Hitler any day of the week.

>>128883425
Land is a God-given resource so owning or using it without permission from God first is a violation of the NAP.

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>>128873204
Hella

>>128882754

If you're libertarian, then you're what was originally known as a liberal. What we call liberals today are what rebranded libertarians, not the other way around.

>>128883403

Well, it's a matter of voluntary association between individuals. It seems sufficiently liberal to me.

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>>128883341
>but you don't need to tax it
Then how do you compensate the people being denied access to it? You cant suppose a man has a right in himself to the fruits of his labor but has no right to exist on the land.

You can make and man the king or make him owner of all the lands; it makes no difference, everyone is indebted to him


>not all land is ipso facto common

Tortured rationalizations, royal privilege, Columbus paradox and what not.

>>128883983
So what is the difference between libertarian and liberal for you then?

>>128883531
>BUT, one can easily foresee how a covenant with closed borders and vetted immigration will easily surpass economically societies with open borders, and market optimization would lead to higher % of borders being closed (markets replicate good ideas).

That depends on the interests of the parties involved. Value, in this sense, is subjective.

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>>128883755
Fuck your god, I'll take what I please

>>128883624
I guess Karl Marx is my ally now.

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>>128883624

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>>128884234
>be egoist
>get shot for violating the NAP

>>128884108
He doesn't think there is one. He's saying modern Libertarians are the same as liberals.

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>>128883624
>proudhon
Did someone needs to know how credits works ?

>>128883987

I'm simply using Lockean homesteading principles in the case of land. You're creating a false dichotomy.

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>>128884234

>>128884414
>be ancap
>get shot for demanding i don't break the NAP
this goes both ways my unintelligent friend
>>128884468
Sure got me with that LARPy image lol

>>128884108

What I'm saying is that libertarians have to take the term "liberal" and the concept of "left" back from the commies that stole it from us to begin with.

>>128883987
Private property is a defining characteristic of civilization and development
life without private property is called tribalism, so unless youre a reactionary extremist or an anarchocommunist better shut your fucking mouth

>>128884164
And my prediction is that the interest would be mostly for closed borders.

It's a prediction I reached studying incentives, migration patterns and praxeology. I could be wrong but I would only need one community with closed borders so I don't care that much if I was.

>>128884590
I don't want the left. Socially liberal fags and cosmopolite scum can have it. Right wing populism is the future.

>>128884378

This begs the question.

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>>128884582
>see the ego approaching my property with a gun
>"The ego demands his prop-"
>ego gets shot
Your memes are fucking cash, though.

>>128883755
>>128884234
>>128884582
sorry I should have said land is given to us by Allah so we must get permission first

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>>128884456
so you think peoples access to the commons is not being violated by allodial land ownership?

Your speaking of the Lockean proviso?

>Nor was this appropriation of any parcel of land, by improving it, any prejudice to any other man, since there was still enough and as good left, and more than the yet unprovided could use. So that, in effect, there was never the less left for others because of his enclosure for himself. For he that leaves as much as another can make use of, does as good as take nothing at all. Nobody could think himself injured by the drinking of another man, though he took a good draught, who had a whole river of the same water left him to quench his thirst. And the case of land and water, where there is enough of both, is perfectly the same.

This implies a natural right to the commons does it not?

>>128884774
>Right wing populism is the future.

I hate to break it to you, but libertarianism rests on principles which conflict with your populism. Enjoy your national socialism.

>>128884918
>implying I'm dumb enough to just walk up to your property with a gun and not take any precaution

>>128885021
Sure.

>>128884935

I'm saying that the commons is created by peoples' homesteading. Property that is privately acquired by the same process is not common.

>>128884935
"The commons" also suffer from the problem of scarcity.

Land is scarce, two people cannot be on the same place at the same time without violating each other's self ownership.

Restriction of usage of the commons is, therefore, mandatory, and the moment you have restriction of usage, you're, effectively, embracing property rights.

>>128885103
>the ego deludes himself into being an infiltration spy master
>tries to get into a gated community
>gets shot
And you >>128884582 accuse other people of LARPing.

>>128874831
constructive feedback: the message is very clear and good, but the font, word spacing and excessive change of colors makes it slightly annoying to read

IMO more people would read it if the text was not all caps, you used one color to emphasize important words, and the text was aligned to one side (so you don't have giant spaces between words on some lines)

>>128885300
I am a spy master though

>>128885461
It's not because your ego thinks it's the case that's make it true
>inb4 relality is a spook

>>128885461
>spy master
>telling me beforehand that he'll infiltrate my property
Either you're a really shitty spy that is full of himself or you actually are a master of infiltration. Unfortunately for you, I am an anti infiltration master, so in both cases visiting my property wouldn't end well for you.

>>128885901
I don't know of anything you have that I want anyway. If I find something though I will rally my Union of Egoists and we will charge your property and take it. Your NAP means nothing to us.
>>128885837
No I really am a spy master. I don't have any proof obviously because why would I need proof of something I don't want anybody to know about.

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>>128886322
How about my toothbrush?

>>128886424
Good meme

>>128885228
>Land is scarce, two people cannot be on the same place at the same time without violating each other's self ownership.

Thats why George argued for the LVT with a citizens dividend to compensate those whos access is being violated.
> you're, effectively, embracing property rights.

The georgist argument is rooted in property rights and is a defenses of property rights against socialist ideals

>>128886322
>Union
>Egoists

That's pretty spooked to think you have any kinship with other self centered dicks.

>>128886614
So where is the limit set? Who can enjoy property and who has right to receive those taxes? If you're arguing about a voluntary association with LVT then that's totally fine with our libertarianism. In fact I would assume most private cities would run a similar scheme.

If two people come after me to a deserted land I'm working on and impose a tax on land, and claim that a fourth person will have to pay compensations to the first three, I have the right to ask why the arbitrary number.

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>>128884468
Happy to see my OC making the rounds.
Plenty of McGas to go around, only 3 bitcoin per tank.

>>128890858
Nice, saved. Thanks for ocing my OC.

>>128881431
>>128882741
>>128883987
>>128884378
>>128884935
>>128886614
here we go again with geofaggotry. Fuck off

>>128888214
t. Not read stirner

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Bump