Is it right or appropriate to spank your kids? Professional clinical

They probably can't differentiate between child abuse and actual spanking.

>>128856905
Who's to say they're not one and the same. Afterall spanking is outlawed in many civilized countries like Germany.

>>128857580
So is free speech and the right to self defense so not really an argument.

>>128856696

if youre their parent how is it any of my business

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEJO8t_wCUQ

>>128857777
Children need to be protected from abusive parents, don't you think?

Shove a cock down a little Timmy's troath if he behaves like a moron for punisment

>>128857863
That's what the libshits want you to do, though. LGBTQBBQPEDO pride.

>>128856696
>post a comment pointing out that anecdotal opinions are irrelevant to scientific investigations that have been completed
>solicit anecdotes

>>128857847

maybe parents wouldnt be so abusive if gvt wasnt monitoring theyre EVERY MOVE

>>128856905
Pain or the threat of pain causes stress in children.

Stress and fear acts a inhibitor to creativity and empathy/imagination.

Some parents may think this is a good way to create more disciplined kids, but with less practice, there is less evolvement.

Ergo sum: Pain or the threat of pain, will affect intelligence development. I.e. your kids will have 5-10 pts of IQ lower (or more).
Lots of scientific studies, on twins, small-scale or large-scale social behavrious and national intelligence, have confirmed this.

(Most who moves away from spanking, advocate "time-out", having children stare into a corner, when they been bad as a better form of discipline.)

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>The logic and reasoning centers of a person's brain don't fully firm until mid twenties.

You need to reason with your three year old about why they shouldn't throw a fit when you take away the fork they were trying to stick in the power outlet.
I hate to

> Social "sciences" have a serious reproducibility problem and every theory they've put forth in 100 years has been contradicted at one point or another.

Listen to us guys we know what's best, our totally legit studies complete negate your thousand generations of anecdotes.

MFW Tom cruise was right.

>>128856696
If you can't hit your wife, you shouldn't be allowed to lay a hand on your kid.

Have you seen all those negresses that beat their niglets in public? Clearly it doesn't work very well.

>>128856696
What about the other 3/4 of their lives, when we gotta deal with the now-abusive little shits?

>>128856696
Thing is, a couple of decades of clinical "research" flies in the face of MILLENIA if human conventional wisdom regarding parenting.

If you really want to know when the degeneracy in American culture started in earnest, look at Dr. Spock.

Parents wanted to be their kids friends and shield them from negative experiences (including consequences for their actions) ignoring the fact that these experiences help them develop into responsible adults.

>>128856696
Is not psychology anecdotical almost by default?

Spanking children when they misbehaved worked for thousands of years.
All of a sudden it's an issue because limp wristed faggots are trying to be their kids' friend more than they're being an authority figure. You can be yyour kid's friend when they're 30 and living on their own, not when they're 8.

>>128858502
>Spanking children when they misbehaved worked for thousands of years.
There is no evidence inflicting pain on a child has worked well over thousands of years.

It could be argued that the royalty and higher nobles could keep their advantage to the peasants, because nobody would ever dare lay a hand on a prince.
(Nursery, nanny, tacher - would probably not scold them either, which may explain why they lacked discipline.)

There is a difference between inflicting pain and fear, and demanding discipline. A huge difference!

Depends on what you hit them with.
>plastic hangers?
Yes
>home abortion kits(wire hangers)?
Yes
>electrical cords?
Yes
>choking?
Maybe
>bare fists?
Maybe
>light burning with a hot iron?
Depends
We gotta draw the line between discipline/punishment and taking your anger out on your kid because you like traps.

>>128856696
It's ok, but only if they are 16 or older.

>>128856696
Spanking your kids is creepy and pervy af. Just slap them around a bit, beat them in a way they won't get a boner from

>>128859630
As always, thesr cuck faggots come with the most pathetic excuses, when a xhild does something wring:
First you warn the child
Then you explain the consequences
Third time you spank him telling him you trued to talk to him as a person and he ignored you.
You dint have to brutally abuse him

>>128856696
>>128856696
only systematically, not passionately.Don't do it cause you're made at the child, do it because you must.
It musn't be a torturous thing, but a lesson. A spritz of ice cold water might also work (learning to handle the feeling of cold water on your skin makes you stronger against aversion in general), but a light spanking might prove more of a deterrent.

>>128860313
>Don't do it cause you're made at the child
mad*

>>128856696
>inb4 300 posts
>inb4 retards who resent their parents claim you should have Socratic dialogues every time your kid does something wrong

Though I'm probably too late for that second one

>>128860386
Do have socratict dialogues when your kid does something wrong, followed by a physical deterrent. If you don't expect him to reason, he won't learn to. It's just like when kids simulate physical fights with grown ups - you don't expect them to fight efficiently, but if you do it playingly for long enough, they learn some basic reflexes that will help them later in life when a real situation might arise.

Spanking should be saved for truly bad behavior because it's the threat after the first that has the power, not the act. Spanking too much very quickly loses the power and just becomes abuse, and ineffective parenting.

It works, but not for the end goal that they're testing for. They're looking at metrics such as obedience and shit, what is more important is that it makes people tolerable.

Kids who aren't afraid of their father tend to have no moral character and other feminine qualities that makes them annoying as shit. Strong discipline breeds strong men. It's not about making the kid do what you want, it's about tempering their will and character.

Verbal abuse works too.

>>128860386
If your kid is so retarded that you can't control his awful behavior without physical punishment, it just means you have shitty genes.

>>128858056
>>128859630
I feel like people would take you more seriously if it weren't for your flag.

People here don't want their son to grow up to be a cuck, even if he's a creative, intelligent and happy cuck. And they don't want their daughter to be a feminist either.

Itt: the reason millennials exist.
The current downturn in society is directly related to the downturn in the acceptance of spanking.

>>128862028
My parents were super soft on me. When I was about 10 or 11 I realized what a little faggot I was and sorted myself the fuck out.

No only pedos and fat fucks who have never had control want to spank their kids

>>128857580
Bad example

>>128862756
Good for you man. Sadly that's not the case for most kids that get it easy. Also a good start for kids around that age is work ethic. When I was 12 I got shipped off to my uncles sheetrock company. Established work ethic and helped me become a decent hardworking man who valued my effort

>>128857580
same place that let shitskins in? Lol if I would follow anyone that wants their country to be overrun by stone age shit people in

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>>128862987
Getting regular spankings and the fear of that is the reason I don't have a criminal record. Being made to work hard is the reason I have a good job that I've had for years and will be debt free soon. Actions have to have consequences or else you wind up like pic related.

Why is the world /pol/ wishes for such a miserable one? A world where children are abused, women are property, and people war with each other on ethnic grounds. Doesn't sound like a very happy world to me.

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not hitting your kids is the most upper middle class soccer mom white people shit ever

no wonder whitecucks fold like a house of cards under the first threat of physical violence, all a brother has to do is talk in a deep voice to get them to wet their panties in fear gnome sayin?

>>128856696
Depends on the situation. If you're doing a decent job parenting you should literally almost never have to. Wife on the otherhand should be spanked, paddled, collared, etc. Women need to know their role

>>128857705
Underated

>>128862987
>tfw my parents didnt want me to work for a year out of highschool, they sent me straight to college.
I know they meant well but throughout my highschool and college career they did more to sabotage me than help me.

>>128858056
>having to stare into a corner for hours doesn´t cause stress
>stress is only induced by physical punishment, not psychological punishment

You are an idiot. Either you can´t punish your children in any way because of >muh stress or you can punish them either way, faggot

>>128856696
>trying to have Socratic dialogue with a 5 year old

You tell them not to do it ever again or they will be in huge trouble. If they do it again then you spank them. It's what's worked in my family since 1700 something.

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>>128856696
If you want your children to end up with mental issues, low self-confidence, hating you, etc. sure go on spanking them. That's how most psychopaths are made.

Raise your kids with love but strictness and they will support you when you are older. They might be mad about you being strict (druing puberty) but later they will find out, that it was for their best. But if you beat them up, then they won't forgive you that easily.

>>128857777
checked

Eh once in a blue moon as the be all and end all maximum level of punishment you as a parent can dish out is fine by me. I was spanked twice as a kid (once at 8 once at 10) both times for endangering someones life (took handbreak off car and rolled down hill / 'play' choked a kid to unconsciousness) and i sure as shit didn't do that again.

I think people also overstate the amount of 'damage' that is done, and conflate any physical punishment with knocking your kid around the house with a tire iron. All that being said, i think people who do spank their kids also fuck up by either punishing too young or too late, i.e. 12-13+ probably going to turn your kid into a BDSM / Incest freak, <5-6 they're probably incapable of comprehending punishment beyond 'one or both of the people in my life i love most are hurting me' which can lead to fucked up shit later on too.

And ALL this being said, i knew a guy whose mum used to withhold love and all other sorts of psychological torture and that is a million times more mind fucking than than a swift clip behind the ears when a kid is being rowdy.

>>128857863
i'm hard all of a sudden

>>128856696
I bet if I looked up those sources they provide it would be full of studies about legit child abuse, where the kid gets hit daily. Because that is the shit they always cite, every single fucking time.

Everyone who pretends that you can reason with a child like with an adult is fucking retarded. They simply lack the life experience to follow your logic.

For things like heating plates it's okay. I tell the kid to stay away from it because otherwise they'll burn themselves a couple times, if the little retard still decides to touch it they will understand. And the damage will not be permanent.

But for shit like running on the street, which is a thing where you cannot learn from it because you are fucking dead? You bet your ass I'll spank them. Pain is the fastest way to learn - assuming it is not an omnipresent aspect of your life, which is exactly the case for all those studies they love to constantly present as counterargument.

>>128858276
what does star trek have to do with any of this

>>128863933
It's always the same shit with them. They think that stuff like taking things away from your kid or grounding them and thus cutting their social ties for multiple days is less damaging to the child's mental development than 4 seconds of getting your ass spanked.

>>128858056
And do you expect to be your kids best friend? I'm tired of parents pawning off the responsibility of raising decent human beings. The idea is for kids to learn what's right and wrong.

What you're trying to teach them is that when they do something bad as an adult their only punishment will be some time out?

>>128856696
If your average parent is a decent person that contributes to their community and has strong family values and morals then something like striking your kid will never get out of hand. More over, your kids are less likely to need a beating if you're a good example, and when they do they'll understand the gravity of it

>>128856696
pain is a fact of life, sheltering your kids cripples them. discipline is the reason civilization exists, psychology is a jewish psyop

>>128856696

>Spanked often as a child

Because I could be downright rotten as a kid

>Impairs cognitive abilities

Uh huh, that's why I'm smarter than you, right?

>Limits ability to be creative

Which is like a nigger saying "street smarts"

>Hurts relationships

Have many friends and have had a consistent string of girlfriends for about 10 years, many of whom enjoy spanking

It is right to spank your kids, if they deserve it. It's wrong if they don't. It's that simple.

>>128861413
t. Guy with no kids

>>128858039
what kind of burger logic is this

>>128865293
Lefties are just fucking delusional about reality.
Just earlier today I read the comment section below some article on the UK attacks and there were tons of people saying that some external trigger must have forced them into this because they do not believe that people can be truly bad.

They are just fucking lunatics who spent too much time consuming fiction and not enough time in reality.

>>128865503

>cannot properly discipline your child because if you do some faggot will snitch on you and you get a visit from the police
>instead have to reason with your 5yo as if he had the mental capacity to understand your argument
>he never learns and it only gets worse because he never has to deal with any consequences
>parent eventually snaps and goes way past what they would have done if they had been allowed to just hit him on the ass once or give him a light slap on the back of the head at the beginning

At least I assume that this is what he was going for.

>>128857705
spain with the bantz

>>128865550
They make the mistake of believing everyone plays by the same rules. In reality most people play by different rules. Muslims arent even playing the same game.

>>128858133
There's a big difference between beating the crap out of your kid for every single reason and the well deserved smack for fucking completely up.
Some stuff needs the absolute red line of "this hurts" as a deterrent.

>>128856696
Not disciplining your child is just as bad.
You teach them good moral values, the value of honesty and integrity and they'll do well in life.

you let them run free and give them all they want.. you'll end up with entitled shitheads

>>128866236
That's basically what I meant by "not spending enough time in reality".
If they had any actual life experience outside their upper class bubble they would realize that it doesn't matter that it's 2017, human behavior has hardly changed in the last centuries. Fuck, we still have influential countries that are indistinguishable from medieval kingdoms when it comes to the social aspects.

Sometimes I feel like it might be some mental damage, too. I had tons of situations where it felt like they had zero empathy. Especially when talking about historical things and they go
>Wow, how could people ever let that happen?
Because modern Western standards weren't a thing back then you retarded nigger. How can they expect someone from half a millennia ago to act according to their moral guidelines?

Sometimes I am tempted to write a novel that plays in the future and paints our current Western believes as the most backwards shit ever. Because fictions seems to be the only thing they can somewhat process.
But then I remember that I am a lazy fuck.

>be me
>father of two
>oldest just turned two
>curious AF about everything around her
>turns oven range knobs
>calmly explain to her not to do that
>sneaks over and does it again when I'm not looking
>turn around and see her laughing
>Yell at her a little more firmly
>"This is NOT a game sweetheart. This is dangerous."
>does same thing the next day
>this time she's frantically trying to turn all of them on and luaghing
>I run over and give her a firm slap on the hand
> "NO!" (slap) "NO!" (one more slap)
>she cries
>pick her up and hug her
>explain daddy loves her, but there are some things that are dangerous to play with
>she never does it again

Sometimes spanking or slapping a kid on the hand is absolutely necessary for their own safety. Anyone who says otherwise has never been a parent.

>>128860291
liberals cant tell the difference, if you so much as raise your voice at them they will claim their parents abused them
why do you think we have so many spoiled limp wristed faggots running around

I think it's really about showing a dominance over a child, showing who's boss. If you can show that without spanking him, then don't. If you have to spank him, do it. Just raise him good.

>>128867024
Yeah, that's exactly how it works.

People in opposition to it would just never look at a situation like yours, instead they use families were daily beating are the norm as case studies to show why it doesn't work.

And then they try to reason with their own children, not understanding that the very basic groundwork they'd need to comprehend the reasoning didn't fucking develop yet because their child has yet to understand that actions have consequences.
And then they end up with mental cases because they missed the imprinting period.

>>128856696
(((psychologists)))
Whatever they say is a strong argument to the contrary.

Also beatings (when appropriate) are literally the only way a black child will ever become a well-behaved adult as they never reach the mental stage of development where one internalizes morality. Wouldn't be surprised to learn that's part of the reason (((they))) wanted it gone.

>>128867180

This. Some kids are more docile than others. Some will require spanking, some won't.

>>128858056

How do you avoid stress when punishing? Isn't that the whole point, to provide a disincentive?

>>128858133
You need to be intelligent enough to have foresight, i.e. to understand the consequences of you behaviour. It's been repeatedly shown niggers don't have enough of this, hence they are surprised when they go to prison for murdering some hoodrat.

A well deserved smack on the butt for some
obnoxious behavior never hurt a child. but
a stern warning or assertive position is better.

some parents are fucking idiots and will also scream and yell and scold and shake and deliver multiple blows going way beyond a spanking into beating their child, but they think its still just a spanking.
>it was just a spanking
>ah you raised your voice,
>told them to shut up,
>jerked them by the shoulder,
>shoved your finger in their face,
>hit them in the small of their back,
>the back of leg
>AND the butt,
>multiple times.
>You literally just beat the shit out of a hysterical 50 pound person with tears squirting out their eyes and who still clings to your leg for protection.

good levels of affection and communication are also important
for good discipline. if youre always just screaming and slapping your kid
and not helping them to understand youre fucking that
kid up

"""research"""

>>128868611
Basically what >>128867024 wrote is the right way to do it. Especially the last but one meme arrow sentence.

>>128868611

checked... and truth.

>>128868611
true, if every parent could properly distinguish between spanking and real abuse there would be no problem

unfortunately you dont have to be qualified to have a kid

Sociology studies are worth less than the paper they are printed on. How can you accurately quantify the effects of spanking ? Plebbit pseudo-scientists at it again

>>128856696
pol, this redditor says that anecdotal experience isn't evidence. Does this hold up for "history" as well???

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of course the
best discipline which
was used on me and my 3 brothers
is "the implication"
my mother kept a small wooden paddle above the
hallway entrance to the kitchen that
read "BOARD OF EDUCATION" on it

if the words Dont make me get the paddle, came out of my mothers mouth, we ran like hell

luckily they never used it

>>128857705
Who knew Spain could be so based

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/what-science-says-and-doesn-t-about-spanking/

Correlation is not causation.
- naughty kids get smacked more
- most people who use very severe punishments smack their kids, but not everyone who smacks their kids uses very severe punishments
- there's a difference between parents who make a calm decision on when and how to smack ahead of time, and parents who just do it whenever they feel like because they're uncontrollable savages

The most important thing is to have clear and consistent rules in place. It is far less traumatising to get smacked when you understand why it's happening and how to avoid it in the future, and the same is true of any punishment.

>>128859630
Schools were much better when we had the whip

>>128870067

Also no niggers

>>128856696
my dad beat the ever living fuck out of me as a child, for the stupidest shit ever

i havent talked to him in 8 years now

hes gonna die without ever seeing his only son ever again, if i can help it. learn from his mistakes

my mom still cries about it to this day. dont do it

>>128867611
I have to seriously ask: when is punishment necessary and why can't it involve discussion and dialogue?

Shit, the hit 'em harder crowd' misses the fact that children's brains are still developing and children are therefore too stupid not to do shit that's wrong. You help them a lot more by discussing what happened with them and teaching them they made a mistake than you do by taking the pussy way out and just smacking them.

Punishments are still an appropriate thing if it's needed after discussion but let's be clear that punishment doesn't have to be smacking the kid.

>>128856696
Spanking specifically is terrible, as is slapping a little kid's hand. There's not much wrong though with simply giving a backhanded whap on the shoulder to an older kid or roughly picking up a small kid.

>>128858133
Beating a dog doesn't work very well either. Only humans possess the capacity for learning from pain. Niggers and animals do not.

>>128856696
I agree, a small spank is a great education tool.

My god, i got spanked a few times as a kid, and it stopped me being a complete asshole.

My kid, cant be a right cunt sometimes. And all i want to do is give him a smack on his ass. Sometimes, i will. He ran out into the road once and almost got hit by a car, because he was ignoring me and chasing after his fucking ball. My god, i smacked that little shit so hard on the ass my hand stung,

The little wont dare run away from me now when we are walking near traffic. And before you ask, no, he isn't scared of me now. We have a brilliant relationship and i love the little fucker, i just dont want him to get hurt.

>>128856696
I used to believe spanking was dumb. But kids constantly push the line as far as they can. I am not saying to slap the shit out of them, but sometime they need to know where they have crossed into a dangerous zone such as trying to walk into traffic.

>>128856696
Psychology is not a real science

i used to steal a lot when i was 9 to 11, nebver got beat up, never got caught, till my father a military officer noticed all my new toys and shit, i got bruises and a bloody nose, never stealed again in my life.

>>128856696
>Is it right or appropriate to spank your kids?
Yes, children and wives need to be spanked when they misbehave.
>Professional clinical psychologists
You mean quacks? Who cares what quacks say?

>>128856696
What about a gf? Memri told me it's rather quite necessary to do it with an open palm.

>>128856696
I just love that argument
>in my experience me being spanked hasn't deterred my development, it may actually have helped me tremendously
>"NO YOU'RE WRONG SCIENCE SAYS DIFFERENT YOU'RE A VICTIM I FEEL SO SORRY FOR YOU"
>you don't understand, spanking helped me
>"GO TO A SHRINK YOU NEED HELP YOU POOR THING, SCIENCE KNOWS BEST"

In real life, if you talk shit you get hit. Is it better to defer that lesson to strangers years down the line or to teach your kid that from toddler age?
This is something the studies don't incorporate.

>>128864327
>what does star trek have to do with any of this
Not Spock on Star Trek, Dr. Benjamin Spock was one of the earliest child psychologists who started writing very influential parenting books starting in the 1940s. He was a staunch opponent of corporal punishment in parenting, and a lot of Baby Boomers really hooked on to his philosophy.

I think it went too far though. There's a difference between a spanking and whipping a kid with a belt (common practice in 1947 when his first book came out). "Progressive" parents took this to an extreme in the 60s resulting in the "feelings" movement in the 70s which really started the erosion of traditional American culture.

Surprisingly he wasn't Jewish, but I can't help thinking he was somehow connected to early social engineering efforts.

Hitting your kids is degenerate. I have two kids. They're well behaved. I don't need to hit them because we enforce strict boundaries and demand respect and kindness. My kids are angels compared to the children of my friends who hit/spank.

>>128875059
Children naturally push boundaries, what happens when one of them crosses the line (I'm actually curious, not trying to sound shitty)?

>>128875373
Stern, VERY STERN reprimand. Not like yelling, but a tone that says we are deadly serious, combined with the removal of a toy or privilege/activity, preferably one involved in the issue at hand. It works. Results in apology, contention, hugs, and a talk.

>>128872418
The bf/gf dynamic itself is wrong. But yes you should spank your wife when she misbehaves and deserves it just the same way as you'd spank your daughter.

>>128875525
Contrition, not contention. Phonefag.

>>128870372

When you're dealing with little kids who barely have the capacity to reason. Have you even raised a child? Or even looked after one?

There's nothing wrong with doing your best to avoid "babying" your kids and to encourage discussion by talking to them, and sometimes they are completely receptive to that, but in no way does that mean that they're ready to consistently think through consequences until much later.

Child spanked and beaten in the last 20-30 years = grow up normal

spanking/beating forbidden in the last 10 years = children grow up to be complete degenerates

pretty simple

>>128870372

Also spare me the goodness in all human beings. A lot of children have the capacity for mischief. That's good and all until they start trying their hardest to stick forks into electrical sockets because the concept of electricity and any form of harm that they can't experience, like death, evades them.

>>128876393
You don't have to employ reason in order to discipline without hitting. You can create other negative consequences.

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>>128858056
>(((Stress))) is real goy

>>128876657

I never said you had to hit. My original question was how do you create punishment that doesn't cause stress or fear. That's how it's supposed to motivate kids not to do it.

>>128856696
Here's my story.. my kids are 4 and 2: I didn't really ever want or feel the need to spank my older daughter. However my son.. oh my son. The last time I spanked him (and by spank I mean an open handed smack on his leg) he took a swipe back at me. Hitting kids gives them the impression that it's ok. It's totally contradictory. Another time he punched me in the face and I have him three sharp smacks on his leg and he started crying. After his timeout, I always elicit an apology from him and he said he was sorry and then he asked me for an apology for hitting him. Seriously.. he's 2. There's literally no point in spanking kids. The key is that you have to have consequences and they can't "get away" with stuff. Especially if you tell them directly to do or not to do something. If they disobey and you allow it, you've just lost ground. If you lose too much ground, the battle is lost. Lose too many battles and the war is lost.

I don't think it should be the go-to response for parents. At the same time you meet some kids and know their parents clearly let them get away with total fucking murder. You could tell through school which kids needed a serious ass kicking, and if they pissed off the wrong kid they got it. A kid ending up without a few teeth and his arm in a splint could have been avoided if their mum or dad just clipped them upside the head a few times early on.

I was quite rarely spanked, but then again I was a good kid. Never was beaten or anything severe like that, don't remember my parents ever hitting me in the head. Other punishments included staring into the corner and depriving me of some stuff like videogames or going to some fun place. To be honest, the inability to play vidya seemed like a much harsher sentence than spanking lol.
Overall, I don't see anything bad in spanking when done moderately. I.e. when it's necessary and with an appropriate force. Just common fucking sense.

>>128858056
>implying every human is the same and every action has the same effect on everyone

Classic fucking liberals with their disasterous ''equality'' meme

>pain or threat of pain has negative effects on development
>(((studies)))
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Jackson
Without pain you wouldn't have MJ (like him or not I don't care).

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2582802/?ref_=nv_sr_1
without stress, you wouldn't have a LOT of greats. Greats are forged with fire and blood, not through pussified methods of petting with feathers.

Fucking sponsored studies trying to rape the norms. Academia is infected.

>>128856696
here's my story. my father used to hit me every time i missed a homework assignment / changed the radio station in the car / spilled milk. i'm pretty fucked up in the head now. i don't speak to my family anymore and i haven't for years.

it might be useful to hit your kids if you do it for a reason other than sadistic pleasure. there is no one-size fits all answer here but i can tell you that getting hit for the wrong reasons early on shapes who you are in a negative way.

Honestly I think it depends on the genetics of the kid. Not even trolling.

If you spend a lot of time around young black men, you realize the ones who had strong authoritarian fathers, usually military/ex military, are by far the most well behaved. Black people in general respond best to authority and fear to keep them in line.

On the other hand, Northern Europeans seem to have their development seriously hampered by being hit, and fearing absolute authority. A stern talking to, and lessons about morality seem to be optimal.

All the other peoples are of varying degrees in the middle.

>>128870372
depends on the kid and situation. Some kids you can just give 'em shit and they'll cut it out. I was always devestated when Dad got mad at me as a kid. And some kids are just shitheads who will keep being shitheads unless you give 'em the hotwheels track across ass. Also I like the leftists wheeling out IQ, which is apprently useful for kids but evil and useless when it shows nogs to be hyperviolent literal retards

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>>128864135
Spanking is just one factor in life that can lead to all of the positive and negative things that you mentioned. Not all people, and you can't even say most people, that are spanked have the negative things that you mentioned. Not all of the children that are raised with love and strictness will support their parents, or even like their parents when they're older.

>>128863933
>Reading comprehension failed.
I described what many used to replace it with.
I don't argue your point and I think you're absolutely right.
Please learn to read.

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I was spanked for hitting my little 2 brothers because they were little shits and kept stealing money/things from family/other people.
Stole over 2000 euros from me.

Whenever I hit them for stealing I got beaten up by my parents and then they would beat THEM up again. After all that my parents would tell me to punish my brothers for stealing and so I did and the cycle repeated.

I ended up living in the woods for 3 months all alone and never talked to any of my family since.

That's how primitivists are born.

>>128879616
We may need to start defining ages when we say 'kid'.

Spanking a 2 year old because it cries in order to tell you something it doesn't know how, is very different than spanking an 8 year old.

Ayyy did my undergrad in psych, though in neuroscience now. Literature does suggest physical discipline is generally negative. Oddly enough, the exception is for single black mothers. In that one scenario, hitting their kids actually has positive consequences for some reason. I don't think there was ever a reason provided, just a fun little fact for you all I remember from a developmental psych undergrad course

>>128857580
>appeal to the people
Irrelevant. Spare the rod, spoil the child, and you get retards who claim spanking is bad.

>>128880153
>Oddly enough, the exception is for single black mothers.
so much racism in academia, I understand why liberalism is necessary

>>128879616
lol nice comment on IQ
I agree that it entirely depends on the kid and situation. From what I've seen kids will walk all over their parents when they know that their parent won't do anything. Say when one parent does all the punishing they will take advantage of the other.
>>128878366
This is definitely a wrong way to punish a child, and it seems that people think that this is what every kid that is spanked goes through.

>>128880153
Cool, can you regurgitate anything else you mindlessly accepted for us?

>>128880023
When people defend spanking they typically wouldn't agree with how you were punished.

>>128867024
based parenting, same thing happens in my household. I got lucky and have a voice that terrifies my daughter for some reason. We had some problems with her refusing to stay out of the litter box or sneaking dry cat food as a 1 yr old but it's all worked out and blackmail material for when she's in middle school now

>>128858056
We have more than enough empathy, faggot. There is no objective reason why we need to emphasize more empathy.

>>128865291
I agree with this, also nice rare desu.

>>128857580
>spanking is bad but shitskins raping our women and killing us by the dozen every week is a-okay
I don't think Germany should be considered a moral authority.

Physical discipline is effective for young children - like 5 and under - for immediate safety issues and abject defiance.
Spank hands moving toward hot stove or poking dog.
Swat rear of 4 year old screaming "you can't make me".

>>128875373
>(I'm actually curious, not trying to sound shitty)?
you talk like a SocJus plebbitor. Please lurk 5 moar years before posting again

>>128880153
That's the problem with social sciences. It is so easy to find an exception and prove the theories wrong.

>>128880166
The rod is the one the shepherd uses to guide the sheep, he doesn't beat up the sheep.

>>128880372
Just because you can't spank doesn't mean you shouldn't discipline. Spanking is pretty easy, it's bad for development and bad for IQ. If the kid isn't old enough to understand the relationship with punishment and action then spanking is useless, if he's old enough then reason will do the job.

>>128880996
There's a difference between physical force and physical discipline. Sure slap the hand away, shove them away from an incoming truck on the street. But don't start hitting them after. Imagine the same with an elderly person, you'd restrain them from walking into traffic but you wouldn't start choking them to teach them a lesson about safety.

>>128881211
The "rod" is referring to the rod specifically for beating your children... lol sheperds are irrelevant.

>>128856696

Oh look it's another "liberals project their own neuroses on everyone" episode

>>128877362
high test boy right there.
The world isn't going to take a hands-off approach to your kid, they need to know physical pain exists, and that it could be way worse than a spanking. Spanked kids don't get it every day, I've spanked my 2 yr old girl a total of 5 times ever. I won't pretend I know how to raise a manly boy like yours but you're better off making him a warrior in a garden than making him a gardener that you hope doesn't end up in a war.

Everytime i hear about spanking i get extremely hard

>>128858056

>Pain or the threat of pain, will affect intelligence development. I.e. your kids will have 5-10 pts of IQ lower (or more)

Until we have literal perfect clones, this will be absolutely impossible to test, even identical twins do not have identical IQs

>>128856696

(((academic research)))

The idea isn't to beat them senselessly. A couple of spanks on the bottom are enough to change their pattern of behavior.
>pick your battles
>in 20 years it wont matter
It matters. You're already too late.

>>128864882
THIS. Relevant quote from The Young Pope:
>you surprise me holy father. You are so young, and yet... you have such old ideas.
>Lenny: You're wrong about that. I am an orphan, and orphans are never young.
>but not all the churchgoers are orphans
>Lenny: says who? You really think the only orphans are those without a mother and father?

>>128856696
>Is it right or appropriate to spank your kids? Professional clinical psychologists and years of academic research say that it's not ok. What do you think though?


If you want to see the results of not disciplining your kids go visit a college safe space.

>>128861342
Personally the verbal shit from my father was way less effective than the physical punishment from my mother, and made me alot more fucked up too. I wasnt afraid of my father, i loathed him

>>128856696
Go back to fucking reddit

Fucking summerfags

>>128858056
>have a kid (hypothetical)
>comes home smelling like weed
>acts stupid even after saying no
>does things that have reverberations through life
>Muhammed al-Stockholmi, Imam of the Religion of Peace, explains to me that spanking is bad
>Tells me that spanking will hurt them more then the actions they did if there was no parental intervention
>Tells me that a time-out will actually have an effect on some kid
>Tells me that IQ can change because of pain or stress
>Forgets his own words as he supports the Syrian Rebel groups that behead children for fun
kek what has the world devolved into

>>128856696
He who spares the rod spoils the child OP. The point of spanking is a secondary punishment. First, you tell the child not to do X. If they disobey you and do X, then you spank them for going against authority. Now they know that if they do X, they will be spanked.

>>128881876
Doesn't matter, as they reach adulthood IQ levels out to genetic averages anyways desu famalamashimsham

>>128879616
>I was always devestated when Dad got mad at me as a kid. And some kids are just shitheads who will keep being shitheads unless you give 'em the hotwheels track across ass.

This is actually probably a better explanation for the lower IQ of people who were spanked as children. High IQ people weren't little shits as children, therefore didn't get spanked.

>>128858081
not just social sciences

>1970
>ICE AGE! ICE AGE!

>2017
>REEEEEE THE GLOBE IS GETTING HOTTER

literally nothing about the studies and how you interpret the studies have changed, nor has the technology. The tech only gets a little more accurate and a lot faster.

It's just the conclusions. The conclusions in 50 years have changed so much.

>>128882028
>imblying

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>>128882334

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>kid grows up never associating pain with negativity
>they can now indoctrinate that pain = pleasure

Not falling for this shit.

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>>128856696
>>128856696
>>128856696


Psychologist here. Spanking is not inherently bad. The issue is that parents don't know when to correctly discipline their child now-a-days.

Spanking is a punishment. This creates fear+anxiety naturally. That's the point of punishment.

Now, we have parents whom spank their child for everything which creates fear.

ex1) Child breaks spills paint trying to "create a surprise for their mother"
If the mother spanks them and yells at them, they now fear making mistakes and fear making examples of love.

When is it appropriate? It's necessary to punish when a child purposely and knowingly breaks rules that he's been positively reinforced to know.

A child is told not to steal cookies. He is grounded, punished, etc. Yet, he still steals the cookies AND breaks the jar trying to steal them.

This is a perfect time to punish the child with physical punishment. In reinforces rules and shows the child there are consequences for doing such.

>>128856696
A smack on the ass is OK.

>>128856696
Always do the opposite of what JEWS say. So, you have to discipline their kids, you have to teach them obedience to commands and laws. If they will not listen to you and you don't MAKE them listen to you they will be lost and end up a beta numale / degenerate sjw. Cold hard Discipline makes a man, not pandering to feels and not know what its like to give and take physical attacks.

>>128881822
We're all a little fucked up in one way or the other anyway. Some psychologist I think said that EVERYONE has some kind of pathology.

The point is to know what kind of persons you want to nurture and go about it the right way. Most parents think that by being best friends with the kids they create the besterest individuals, well it doesn't -always- go like that.

>>128856696
Oh haha so (((psychologists))) say it's not ok uh? But it's totally okay to castrate your infant son if he ever plays with a Barbie.

Do you guys have ever been spanked? Tell me some stories

>>128856696
No desu only subhumans beat their own kids... Things like those is what separates the whites from others and why whites are and will still be more successful than them...

>>128882865
This. Unlike the state, parental moral arbitration should revolve around intent rather than consequences. Light physical punishment can be applied when the intent is wrong. Bad/accidental outcomes coupled with good intent should be arbitrated through reason. Both should be done in a calculated manner. Impulsive troglodytes are the worst parents.

I will always be reluctant to apply physical force on my child, but I can't say it's inherently wrong.

>>128883589
>I will always be reluctant to apply physical force on my child
You should be. That feeling will ensure that even if it happens you'll never go too far.

>>128882216
This, Correlation is not causation.
There is also the issue of separating spanking from other factors such as yelling, spanking harder than necessary, and other forms of physical punishment(hitting other areas of the body). There is no way that psychologists know how the child is being spanked other than from the words of their parents, which will obviously say that they weren't doing any wrong.

>>128856696
>it's a "my pseudo science study means more than actual experience" Reddit post
Every time

>>128882538
cant KEEP MY DICK IN MY PANTS

>>128883533
Nah, I was a nice kid...I got beaten up very few times, and usually it was my parents slapping me on the face. But usually I inflicted pain upon myself when I did something stupid.
Still today I feel like I haven't been punished enough by my parents for my mistakes. Which makes me believe I got some mental trauma I want to hide from myself buried in there.

>>128883589
>>128883589


Exactly, too many parent want to apply absolute moral shame or absolute heavy physical punishment at all times for every offence.

You should never beat your child unless you're a spartan warrior.

I would get spanked all the time for doing literally nothing and my dad ran my life like a boot camp, best part is that he joined the military as an medical officer and acted like he was some hard ass marine, the only action he saw was sitting at a desk

Completely stunted my growth socially and i absolutely hate/avoid people as much as possible

>>128856696
for fucks sake redidt is unbearable

>>128883533
3 times in my life from father that I can remember.

1 was I woke him up several times being a little bitch
2 was I pushed mom
3 was I talked back to him very violently and I got punched and fell down

I respect and love him more than ever and needless to say none of the above repeated itself.

>>128856696

((( clinical psycologists )))

>>128858133
Really? Only ones I've seen let their kids run wild while they're playing with their phones or drinking

>>128883533
don't reply to this perv!

>>128858056
kill yourself swedish cunt

>>128858056
the only argument i can think against spanks is that it may inculcate low self esteem or unnecesary fears

>>128883972
Do you think because you were abused like this, that spanking in general is bad?
This is what I always see when people say spanking is bad. They mix in the obvious abuse and say that spanking on its own caused you to be the way you are.

>>128858056
This couldn't possibly be because one child saw the other didn't get physical punishment and felt singled out and isolated.

there is a very clear difference between spanking your kids for discipline and beating the shit out of your kids for punishment
this difference isn't apparent to the eternal anglo tho

>>128884425
But if its done like >>128867024 then that won't happen.

>>128856696
I think there is a time and place for it, reserved for the worst of unprovoked behavior.

Doing it all the time lessens the effect of it. It needs to be reserved for really big fuck ups only.

>>128884900
Eternal Anglo? Sheeit, the social sciences are 100% Jew. 50 years of (((science))) has taught us to not discipline our kids and now we have millennials.

>>128884780
>Applebees
not worth the time and gas it takes to get there

>>128884603
No spanking is okay when there is a CLEAR reason and it teaches you not to do a specific bad action

Basically my dad spanked me whenever I did anything remotely annoying/out of line, so I now act like a robot

>>128884780
This is one of my main issues with military people. That entitled persona that they put off when 90% of them don't even see combat.
I've had one guy come into my store and ask for a military discount. When I told him that the store doesn't offer them he said,"oh that's fine, some people just don't appreciate the military." in a passive-aggressive tone.

I don't think spanking is a good idea, but I don't think it should be illegal. I don't want the state to be able to just take peoples kids away from them ostensibly to protect them. One day it is to protect them from spanking, and the next day they take them just because you educate them in a way the gov disapproves, like in Canada. Forcing parents to let tgeir kids be trannies. Roflcipter

>>128885380
Honestly my dad was pretty similar, and I am the same way.
One funny thing that I just thought of is the fact that my siblings and I were all spanked and abused, but my sisters scored higher in IQ than average. I unfortunately never had the opportunity to take the test, but I figured that mine wasn't that bad either.

>>128884992
is it ok to hug them right afterwards? isnt that rewarding bad behaviour?

>>128870311
Take your fucking daddy issues to reddit faggot. I bet your dad also went to work everyday and payed rent too, but you don't give a shit about that.

>>128886198
Personally I wouldn't have done that, and instead talked with them to make sure that they understood. After a talk a hug would be okay, so there was a bit of time to separate the instances.

>>128861799
No, people here were spanked as children. WE know why we were spanked, and we know it is because we did bad things. Really retarded things like throwing bricks into a neighbors empty Horse Tank "pool"

Spanking as a punishment works when deserved. IT'S when retards start hitting kids for every little transgression it becomes a problem

>>128858056

>Stress and fear acts a inhibitor to creativity and empathy/imagination.

THATS THE POINT!!

Many Millenials are so overwhelmed by their "empathy" that they can barely function in society. They are so distracted by absurd claims of social justice, that they end up losing in competitive society.

It's dog eat dog kids, and the sooner you figure that out, the better off you will be

>inb4 "empathic" virtue signalers blame boomers for the fact they are in the basement while spanked chinese/indian kids are beating their asses in every category.

>>128856696
Eversince my dad left, my mother would hysterically charge at me over literally nothing. She did this on an almost daily basis. I fucking hate her for having been so irresponsible.

On the other hand, I'm of the opinion that when you kid has done some horrible shit and you're the father, you better get the belt ready.

>>128884067
How did your parents used to beat you? With their hand or instruments? Their used to remove your clothes too?

>>128886734
I mean no disrespect, but that's why father figure is important. Not only because he's the one getting the belt ready, but also because he's tanking the bitchiness of mothers instead of having the child get them.

>>128856696
Yeah its ok

>>128887391
It was only these 3 times that I can remember.
First two was slapping me and ear pulling and arm grab & shake.
The third was just a K.O. punch like mentioned.

No clothes removed.

>/pol/ thinks the only parenting styles are spanking or doing whatever gyour kid wants
>/pol/ thinks climate change evidence is comparable to the decades of empirical verification that spanking or any physical punishment reduces the child's intelligence and future success

You are all examples of spanking reducing IQ and creativity, as you refuse to see outside your little box.

>>128857705
Spain bringing the heat.

>>128856696
>Is it right or appropriate to spank your kids?
yes
>Professional clinical psychologists and years of academic research say that it's not ok
I want to see how their children are living, if they have any, of course
>What do you think though
You only hit your children if you want to keep them from doing dangerous shit and acting like dumbasses. If you're angry, then hit your wife instead.

Keep in mind that psychology, especially child development and social psych has been infiltrated by postmodernists leftists who wish to teach kids that morality is relative and disicipline is a power game of the oppressor vs the oppressed.

Also im sure experiments on spanking young children wont be funded or approved by the irb.

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>>128889047
>if you're angry, then hit your wife instead.

>>128888404
The problem is that you just accept that blindly and without critical thought, then proceed, ironically, to call people stupid who have the cognitive maturity to disagree. Obviously if you categorize spanking with beatings, it's going to appear bad, but that's an association fallacy. It is also inevitably a hasty generalization, which you should be wary of, considering psychologists and even scientists in general tend to be terrible statisticians.
>haha you disagree with my social psychology book therefore you're an idiot

>>128882216
I hadn't thought of that and it makes a lot of sense. Smarter kids would be more open to discussion then window lickers, and better at grasping abstracts. You can teach them that steal is wrong because it hurts others, and how would you like it if somebody stole from you? Dumber kids can't manage this and you have to settle for " if you steal I'll tan your ass"

>>128889258
This may explain why my extremely impressionable, stupid social psychology major roommate/tenant got pissed at me for asking to try to turn lights off when he leaves the room and moved out, like I was ""oppressing"" him.

>>128890719

Give him the ol'

>muh climate change

And if not, resort to calling him a fascist science denier. Hit him where it hurts.