There is no difference between domination by private institutions

>>128855334

mostly, but i hate both.

>>128855334
I believe the government should be of the people, by the people, and for the people, and used as a tool to keep private institutions in line. The only contingency is if the populace choose to subjugate themselves.

>>128855334
there is ONE
every private institution have different needs
state institutions have ONE - to make their people safe from those who will try to rob them
>>128856562
get out of here commie

>>128857512
Private institutions have only one need. Make profit.

>>128855334
private institutions are much more efficient than state institutions

>>128855334

Government exists not to take care of people but to provide an environment in which people have the ability to take care of themselves. When private institutions infringe on those freedoms is the only time government should step in.

>>128857753
Agree mostly.

>>128857674
yes, what i meant is that they will use every way possible to extract profits from people; companies are as strong as they shilling mechanism.
while country is as strong as people that are living within borders if country government will try to shill their people they will end up shilling themselves and weakning their country

>>128858097
Regardless what's the difference between a totalitarian government and a border-line fascist corporatist government desecrated by lobbying and special interest groups? Both lead to misery. Is the difference in the amount of misery inflicted upon the people?

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>>128856562
>I believe the government should be of the people, by the people, and for the people
If only there was a political system like that...
>>128857703
>private institutions are much more efficient than state institutions
They're more efficient at leeching money from their employees and customers, not so much at actually improving the lives of the working class. But hey, enjoy having half the value of your work get taken from you and given to some trust fund kiddie so they can go to overpriced music festivals.

>>128858441
you know people can stop supporting a private institution if they dont like their way of operating
stop supporting the government and suddenly you're in chains
please tell me about how terrible the capitalist world you're living in right now is and how greatly the communist governments flourished

>>128858441
Your second point is exactly right. I don't agree with your first point, I believe our constitutional government is riddled with lobbyists, PACs, big pharma, special interests, etc, etc. It's not of the people, by the people, and for the people anymore.

>>128858397
i trough that the cure is a authoritanian goverment like monarchy or authoritarian dictatorship
it's obvious that corporations will alyways stand above law and that's why it should be simple and should favour free market instead of regulations

>>128855334
>no difference
yeah except that's bullshit. The weight of the law is more powerful than any company can possibly be. Whatever product monopoly a company may be said to have, the state has a permanent monopoly on force and legal punishment.

>>128858617
No one said anything about abolishing private property or collectivizing the means of production. You think you can simply vote with your dollar if you dislike a private institution? Tell that to US pharmaceutical companies that raise prices of often life-saving drugs by thousands or more percent because they can, because they know there is no where else to turn. Capitalism has created more prosperity than any other system on earth. But there are several flaws. If people need these medicines to survive, then jack up the prices because they'll pay for the meds they need to live. Then next week they'll struggle to live. If the government tries to stop you just lobby the shit out of them with your massive profits.

>>128858940
You'd be surprised. Corporate lobbyists have a bigger hold on the law then you think. Corporations control government. Government controls law. Ergo corps control law.

>>128859162
>corporations control government
to some extent, sure. That's not to say you can say they have absolute power (or even a majority of the power) over which laws get passed and how regulations are written--you would thereby underplay the power that individual politicians have and political factions have. More importantly, nobody is safe from an ambitious federal prosecutor with an axe to grind, no corporation on earth with holdings in the US.

>>128859817
I agree with you to a fair extent that the political system and federal government have more power over private institutions. Just as we citizens have more power over our government than we realize. The "I don't vote because it doesn't matter" viewpoint is fundamentally flawed. I do contend that the feds have more power to protect themselves from lobbying and corporatism then they exercise. That's why I vote for candidates that want to increase regulations on large companies to protect consumers and the environment. I don't believe they would do it otherwise. Greed is too powerful.

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>>128858617
>you know people can stop supporting a private institution if they dont like their way of operating
Ever hear of monopolies?
>stop supporting the government and suddenly you're in chains
The corporations basically OWN the government at this point. The thing about the "free market" is that it lets the super-wealthy wall street crooks buy the country out from under you.
>please tell me about how terrible the capitalist world you're living in right now
Quality of life has plummeted in most of the US the farther the overton window shifts to the right- a third of the country is living in poverty while big pharma has created an opiate epidemic that conveniently feeds into the private prison slave labor system, and the working class STILL hasn't recovered from the 2008 crisis.
>>128858641
>I believe our constitutional government is riddled with lobbyists, PACs, big pharma, special interests, etc, etc
That is a feature, not a bug, of capitalism
>>128858940
>Whatever product monopoly a company may be said to have, the state has a permanent monopoly on force and legal punishment.
The US military has existed to serve Wall Street all the way back to the banana wars. I'd recommend the book "War is a Racket" by Smedley Butler, the top US marine general from WW1.
>>128858968
>No one said anything about abolishing private property or collectivizing the means of production.
To be fair, I was kind of hinting at anarchism like what the Spanish CNT-FAI or Syrian Kurds use being a preferable system to what we have now.
>Capitalism has created more prosperity than any other system on earth
Feudalism was better than slave societies, and capitalism was better than feudalism, but that doesn't mean that progress suddenly ends at capitalism. There are better systems we can use, especially as automation is rapidly approaching and will eventually remove the need to work altogether.

>>128861174
You know what's up.
>That is a feature, not a bug, of capitalism.
True, true. It's inevitable in a free market society. But I believe it can be restricted. Like social democracy, an ideology bent on creating a more fair playing field within the framework of a free market society. Not socialism, but socialistic. We can "enclose", if you will, the free market so that greed doesn't go to the extremes and stays within the locus
of points where it creates wealth and prosperity.

>>128855334
are you stupid or something?

>>128855334
This is the real red pill
Left libertarianism for the win

>>128861174
>especially as automation is rapidly approaching and will eventually remove the need to work altogether.
Pure ideology.
Automation is just another way of saying industrialization, or mechanization, which is something that has been ongoing for nearly 300 years now, ever since the industrial revolution began.
There is no credible reason to believe that the end of human progress is anywhere near within sight.

>>128856562
Universal franchise will always lead to the lower half of the bell curve ruining everything for the upper half anyway.

Women and non-land owners shouldnt have a vote.

>>128862609
Agreed.

>>128857703
literally no evidence for this

>inb4 murica capitalism blah blah

USA and its client states have flourished because of two things, neither of which are related to capitalism. First, it seized vast tracts of new land and reallocated to them (gibs).
Second, it explicitly rejected individualism in favor of state infrastructure projects like river dredging, canals, roads, rail, etc., usually financed by outright prohibition on competition (postal service monopoly and higher rates made possibly by it financed the roads in early America for example).

You've been brainwashed into thinking that the Locke / Mill / Smith variety of English modernism / capitalism is justified by the fruits of the theories (USA richest nation) except the USA, to the extent that it progressed, explicitly rejected English modernism.

>>128865990
this

>>128855334
the problem is little snowflakes with no skin nor leadership nor even the desire to achieve things that scream anybody doing better than them is "dominating" them.

>>128855334
It's why I'm voting liberal in 2018 and 2020. Conservatives don't think anymore beyond "Only 2 genders, no muslims, no jews, no liberals" etc etc

>>128859162
>the government having ridiculous power is the fault of corporations
People like you need to learn corporations wouldn't give a shit about the government if the government couldn't provide them with such a substantial benefit

Every supposed effort to reign in corporations only makes it more expensive for smaller fish and creates a growing barrier to entry

>>128866521
this desu

>>128865990
>state infrastructure projects made America great
Lmao

The foundational law is what made this country great you fucking loser. Recognizing rights associated with capitalism is foundational to a successful economy, like property rights. Stability and protection of the fruits of your labor are literally all it takes and disgusting bottom feeder retards like you think if you build roads and shit, that's all it takes

Fucking kill yourself

>>128861174
>feature not a bug
>listed things exist because of the government's obscene power

>>128867067
Listed things because of private institution's obscene power over government.

>>128861812
>Like social democracy, an ideology bent on creating a more fair playing field within the framework of a free market society.
I'd definitely agree that social democracy is a heck of a lot better than the neoliberal economics that both major US parties advocate, but it still includes the exploitative elements of capitalism and just reduces them to a sustainable level. Even that tends to be fiercely opposed by the wealthy ruling class, as the assassination attempts on the Roosevelts demonstrated.
I feel that ideally it would be preferable to replace the system of private property (where the wealthy are able to extract wealth from property that they don't personally use, such as through rent or dividends) with personal property, which basically means that people own the stuff they actually use. Basically, I think all businesses should run like co-ops.
Hypothetically speaking, if a co-op business were to somehow double productivity then all the people working there could simply cut their working hours in half, while in a capitalist business they would just fire half the employees in that situation.
>>128866521
Liberals and conservatives are both right-wing economically- when the Republicans are in power, Wall Street wins and the people lose, and when the establishment Democrats are in power Wall street still wins, just slightly less. I'm really hoping Bernie takes advantage of the unpopularity of both major parties to start a new one before 2018.
>>128867067
So you acknowledge that big corporations have infiltrated the government so you'd prefer to reduce government and cede its functions to those same corporations? That makes no sense. I'm all in favor of scaling down gov't in general but it would only work if you got rid of the corporations as well