If minimum wage increases lower poverty, then why don't

>>128729792
Burger education right there guys.

>>128729792

Because they'd still be priced out of those fancy stick houses that are a step up.

>>128729991
Germany has a minimum wage of roughly $10/hr though.

Inflation. Printing money is bad.

>>128729792
Let's just make the minimum wage 1 million dollars so we can all drive ferrari's.

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>>128729792

Fact is I wont work for less than $100 per hour so you've got a long way to go before you'll get my services.

>>128729792
yeah fuck it. it's everyone's god given right to have 4 kids while still working at the minimum wage. personal responsiblity doesn't matter because muh feels

>>128729792
Unemployment in African countries would skyrocket.

>>128730325
This

>>128730437
>>128730498
>>128730325
>>128730193
Not an argument and you know it.

>>128730204
Germany and the UK do just fine with higher minimum wages than what the US has.

>>128730437
Says the welfare whore. Go back to dream land and stop posting here.

>>128729792
>wages rise
>prices rise to match the increase in spending money
>things go back to how they were before but with more inflation

minimum wage is stupid, just stop importing millions of shitskins into the already oversaturated labor market and let competition naturally increase wages

>>128729792
10$ minimum wage is better then ZERO which is what they will make when mcdonalds replaces hem with a kiosk.

>>128729792
Brilliant. Let's just raise the minimum wage of anyone in Africa to 20 dollars per hour.
Better yet, let's make everyone rich by having minimum wage across the board globally be 1 million dollars per hour. No one will ever have to work, everyone will be rich.

>>128729792

To this date there is no data from countries who introduced Minimum wage that it hurt the population.

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>>128729792
>they earn more than half the family's income
Drop the minimum wage now.

>>128729792

When you artificially make something more expensive ( labor ), less of it will be purchased. Since it can not be legally negotiated beneath a certain price, those individuals whose labor is least productive ( the poor ) will not be able to sell it at all. Now instead of making $7.25 an hour they are making $0.00 an hour and collecting welfare. Win/ win for Democrats.

>>128729792

Also look up the first post on /pol/ under False equivalency

Most if not all African counrteis have shitty productions chains with the least paid jobs on this world so the First World country can get all the nice cheap shit we want.

Most First World countries have jobs in the service sector

>>128729991
Prove him wrong, oh great wise faggot.

>>128729792
Minimum wage hikes hurt economically disadvantaged minorities.

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>>128730612
>Germany and the UK do just fine with higher minimum wages than what the US has
So does Austria with no minimum wage.

>If you increase minimum wage my burgers will cost 15 cents more!
>Think of the poor business owners, how will he afford the yacht that parks inside his other yacht?

Why does minimum wage make /pol/ turn into boomers?

>>128730612
people should not be 36 with children working a minimum wage job and if they are, they're fucking retards that don't deserve 15$ a hour for doing a job any retard off the street could do. it would completely fuck over poor people (most of which do not have jobs) by making them even less employable. it would also speed up automation. the labor of some people is not worth 15$

>>128730202
Burger education right here guys

>>128729792
Minimum wage does not bring people out of pverty, it only hightens the line that is considered poverty because as the cost of labor goes up, the cost of goods goes up.

I make 21$ an hour, minimum wage in my states is 9$. There are people who make 9$ , 15$ and 18$ at the place I work also. if minimum wage went up to 15, then the current 15$ people would need a 6$ increase in order to keep the harder jobs incentives. The 18$ guys and 21$ guys would have to get it too to keep the higher position incentives. the work I do is worth 12$ more than minimum wage and I wont do it for less, and most people feel that way.

Raising minimum wage will only raise the poverty line by making the labor cost more across the board.

>>128730788
>better then ZERO
Lies, young people could work for 5 and get work experience that they need for jobs above 10. Now wonder unemployment is a problem, when you have to pay a minimum wage and decide between a man that worked for a few years and a negro that never has, when you could hire both at different wages.

>no mention of the woman's race

shes fucking black. seriously, when is the last time you've gone to a McDonalds?

>>128731130
if the prices increase, then what was the point of rising the wages when the inflation of prices cause you to be in the same economic situation as before the artificial wage hike?

If you do not have 6 digits in your bank account you are poor.

>>128731130
If you increase minimum wage you make everyone's lives shittier and you get minimum wage workers fired and replaced with machines. It also disproportionately hurts small businesses destroying the middle class.

>>128729792
Yeah, because teens don't work these days.
They're on that GIBSMEDATS income.

>>128729792
SHAREBLUE IS SHILLING

COMEY IS TESTIFIYING

DNC MURDERED SETH RICH

PRAISE KEK

>>128729792
If the current minimum wage is $0.5/hr and you raise it to $10/hr after a period of time the purchasing power of $10 will be the same as $0.5 before, but in that process a lot of people will lose their jobs and a lot of businesses will fail because of the sudden hike in the price of labour.

>>128730802
That is because social science is not real

>>128729792
if everyone has a greater capital expenditure power, will this not raise prices in a free market?

>>128729792
No, the companies based there would just hire illegal immigrants for less than the minimum wage.

>>128731218
Thanks Moshe

Just work for almost free goy, then you will get (((experience))) to move on to better jobs
Then 40 years later they are still in the same place

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>work minimum wage job
>earn more than half the family's income

>minimum wage minimum effort
>doubling the wage doesn't double the effort

>Raise minimum wage.
>Everyone above minimum wage has their labor devalued.
And it doesn't stop (((them))) from hoarding all our money in the pyramid scheme that is interest payments.

>>128731218
No lies, 5 is better than ZERO too.

>>128729792
Wages haven't been rising in a long time. Give more money to people, have them buy more, more people get to work.

In Germany and Japan, give more money to old people, they don't have to work (they couldn't anyway), they buy, and it offsets the need for a young population, and weakens the refugee ponzi scheme thing.

>>128729792

Better question is why do so many of these minimum wage people vote Republican?

>>128731576
>40 years later they are still in the same place
Your problem for being a retard unable to find a better job or get an education.

>>128731683
Why not zero? If someone wants to work for free, why not. Internship is free and you get a bit of work experience and you get to see how things work.

>>128730612
Study basic economics you absolute shitfuck

Minimum wage benefits nobody except large corporations that can put small business out of business by making it illegal to pay people a certain amount...

>>128731694
Image you run a mcdonalds and the wage of all your workers has to go up 50%, but you MUST have the same income from the store in order to keep the lights on. Now you have to raid prices by 50% in order to just keep the lights on. Image everyone has to do that. Now the workers make 50% more, but everything now costs 50% more too. No effect. So now people move their businesses to states with lower minimum wage.
FWI: There is a state and federal minimum. Business has to pay the higher of the two.

>>128731949
But a person working in a minimum wage position (assuming not in school) wont be getting an internship.

>muh look at all these countries with high minimum wage who are rich
The problem with a minumwage arises when it is set above the market rate for labour. When Germany introduced the minimumwage a few years ago there wasn´t that big of an effect because the market rate was about the same. Those who got their salary raised by the minimumwage were hurt in other ways like an increase in workload.

>muh think about the poor people
Minimum wage hurts the poorest of us, those without a job. If you are unskilled and uneducated the only way to get a job over someone who is, is to offer your service for less. This market mechanic is undercut by a minimum wage. labour unions in South Africa did not want to implement the minimumwage because they cared about the poor but because they wanted to protect themselfs form competion.

>>128732092
Nevertheless, why have a minimum wage, it simply discriminates against people with low skills. Why would you disable people the chance to work and gain skills for free?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ca8Z__o52sk

>>128729792
introduces minimum wage

1. Wages rise thus the employer must pay more for each employee. The cost for producing something rises.

two options:

a. The prices of said goods rise, in order to pay for the higher wages.
> congratulations you made living more expensive

b. the employer cuts a part of his profits in order to pay for these wages. Leaving him with less money to invest. Because he isn't able to invest he will lose his Competitive Advantage. Other companies perhaps foreign companies are able to produce at cheaper price. this leads to american businesses losing their marketshare to foreign businesses.
> congratulations you have started a cashflow outside of the USA. Money which could have gone to VAT to pay for social security shit is now going to some sweatshop in India or China. The US government will have less revenue and because they'll still have the same expenses they'll have to raise taxes in order to maintain their programs

>>128731214
Lol why would your employer increase your wage if he legally didnt have to

>>128732005
Lower taxes and impose restrictions that prevent companies from moving.

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>>128730696
>Says the welfare whore. Go back to dream land and stop posting here.
found the chink

>>128729991
Nice argument ahmed.

>>128729792

Fact of the matter is that with the increase in automation, most min wage jobs will be eliminated entirely. Only skilled or educated labor will increase in value. The solution is a baseline UBI, not an increase in min wage. That is my economic perspective.

My personal perspective is that if you make less than 100$ per hour by the time you are 36, you are a degenerate failure and I don't care. I'm making 107$ average at 27, self employed. No excuses.

>>128729792

Soooo.... women are trying to destroy the economy?

>>128731309
>having significant money in the bank at all points in your life.
>not getting rid of any debt, getting reliable cars, and making sure you are aggressively paying on a home, and contributing to 401kin your 20s

Five figures is fine. Bong education right here.

>>128729792
I support raising minimum wage because the wage certainly isnt going up on its own. But you cant. Because the money is not there in the economy. Its in the bank and it wont ever leave the bank unless a large company wants to buy another large company. You have to fix the corruption in the government that lets these businesses get away with it and bail them out when they fuck up. Which wont happen. Basically the entire system is corrupted beyond repair. The only way to fix it at this point is to tear down the current system and replace it, which will take an Armageddon event.

>>128729792
Minimum wage should be decided per-district on the basis of cost of living.
At most you could ask the federal government to set a guideline of minimum wage being x% of the cost of living. Anything else is absolutely fucking retarded.

>>128731130
because people depending on the minimum wage past the age of 21 made some very poor life choices

>>128732005

In a federal system, there is no reason for the central government to set price controls on things like labor what the fuck. Fuck FDR. I demand to be taken to his mausoleum so I can shit on him and his tranny wife's tomb.

>>128731957
>can't make an argument at all
>hurrr ur just wrong

The state of nu/pol/

>>128731174
No one is saying they should. Maybe you should try not battling strawmen and losing to them?

>>128732442
>chink
>insult
End yourself poorfag

>>128729792
If at first the salary followed the increase in cost of life.... They are forcing it down since 30+ years how are people suppose to live decently ? This is pure slavery, such riches concentration is unjustifiable in any way.

Lol.
Dumb cunts shouldn't have entered the workforce to take men's college funds. They should be sent to an all girls school in the countryside and have rich men buy them when they come of age

High wages don't improve standards of living, good jobs do.

Simply saying "we'll increase the amount you're paid for shitty jobs" doesn't solve shit.

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>>128729792
>56% are women

FUCKING CLOSE YOUR LEGS REEEEEEEE

GOD DAMN IM ONLY 24 AND MAKE 14 DOLLARS AN HOUR WHILE GOING TO SCHOOL BECAUSE I HAD SO MANY SHIT MINIMUM WAGE JOBS AS A TEENAGER AND WAS RESPONSIBLE, ITS NOT MY FAULT YOU WERE STUPID

>>128733240

Responsibility isn't an argument~~

Even stupid people that put no effort in should be paid more to press the burger button on the screen.

>>128732320
Firstly, i'm against minimum wage because increasing it would make people unemployed. Not sure if you got that all the way.
Secondly: If a person wants to work for free it doesn't bother me at all.There are strict rules in the USA.
1. People cannot work free at a job where they may get injured because the workers comp insurance requires them to be officially employed, which has a minimum wage.
2. Manufacturing companies and restaurants don't do internships. An internship (paid or unpaid) is for students or recent grads only in their field.

If it was allowed, and a person wants to work for free, I wouldn't give two shits.

>>128729792
Money has no absolute value, it only has relative value. If you legally mandate that a certain class of low value workers must be paid at least $12 an hour, then everyones wage above that will increase to reflect the new (lower) value of the currency. It's basically a way of inflating the currency.

Think of it this way. I can work as a web developers for a business, that might pay $15 or I can pack groceries for $7 an hour. Learning the skills to code and provide value as a developer takes time and investment, often a degree or certification which needs to be earned, normally through spending money to invest in the educaiton and opportunity costs of not being able to work full time while learning.

Where as anyone able bodied can pack bags of groceries.

So if you up the min wage to $15 an hour, you could avoid the educational investment and simply pack bags and make as much.

Except businesses need certain things like developers, so in order to attract that position they have to offer more money than basic jobs like packing bags. So the expected wage goes up for everyone, not necessarily right away but slowly as the market re-adjusts.

Of course this extra overhead doesn't just come out of profit margins, it's paid for by increasing the cost of goods, and when most businesses are doing that it means the overall cost of living goes up. So the people who are paid a bit extra due to min wage actually aren't any better off because the spending power of their money has been decreased.

The lesson here is that you cannot artificially decide what someone is valued, that is a group decision that the market makes by seeing what people are willing to pay or be paid on average. Setting a min wage doesn't work it's just a temporary boost to people, it's used to buy votes, it typically harms the people it purports to hep.

>>128729792
Minimum wage is a price floor. Raising it will just create a new price floor. Need more people out of minimum wage jobs into livable wage jobs. Key is more good jobs created.

>>128729991
it's sarcasm-flavored reductio ad absurdum, you ignorant desert dweller

>>128732396
Because, my job is not worth doing if with less purchasing power due to a devaluing of labor if he does not give me a raise. If too many people leave the company at the same time, it goes out of business. They would have to give my position (minimum wage) PLUS 12$ or I would go to another company that does, or to an easier job that now pays my old wage at some other place. Its called "Devalued labor" check into it.

>>128733430
The problem with scrapping minimum wage now is that there's so many people competing for jobs that it would just result in a race to the bottom.

>>128732407
If were going to do extreme shit, we might as well say its illegal for people to quit their job or get fired. Might as well go FULLL COMMIE at that point.

Lower taxes for the business means higher taxes for the employee to make up for the deficit. Then what was the point of increasing wages anyway.

>>128730612
here's your argument
http://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/uc-berkeley-touts-15-minimum-wage-then-fires-hundreds-of-workers-after-it-passes/

if you rise the cost of labor, some jobs aren't worth any more, so you get rid of them

>>128733884
Not quite true, you have to remember that "minimum wage jobs" are really for the unskilled worker. In an attempt to give them a higher wage, the problem is that the value they bring (with not experience or skill) isn't high enough to warrant hiring those people.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFbYM2EDz40

If you were to scrap the minimum wage (good idea to scrap union wage laws too, they are just as harmful) you'd see employees negotiating for their wages and they'd hold more power over employers.

pay no attention to the small handful of kikes with 99% of the worlds money

squabble over that last percent you dumb goy

if the minimum wage affects you at 36 years old it means you are a fuckin parasite who's either going into the work force for the first time in their life or just been sitting at their McDonalds job all their life cause you too "real nigga" to like find a career path or seek a promotion or do any of "dat otha white sheeiiit".
Either way, the minimum wage helps only those who have ZERO motivation to help themselves. Besides help these parasites it only takes jobs away from teens who would be fuckin thrilled to make anything over the summer.

>>128731214
This burgerbro gets it. People respond to incentives and if there's no additional incentive to do a job that requires more time and investment to be qualified for, then people won't do it, they'll do easier jobs that pay the same.

>>128732396
>Lol why would your employer increase your wage if he legally didnt have to
If he wants someone to do that job which requires more training and more investment (maybe an education or many years experience in similar roles) then they'll have to offer and incentive that is greater than basic roles that don't require training or investment.

They don't have to pay anything, but if they want someone to fill that position then they'll need to offer the incentive.

Employers don't mind increasing wages at all, if the government has inflated the currency due to policy then each denomination (dollar, pound, whatever) is worth less value, so you can pay people greater amounts while keeping the value the same as before.

People in business know that money doesn't mean shit, values means everything, they aren't the same thing, there's a translation between the 2 which changes depending on factors in the economy.

>>128732585
States have their own minimum wage. The federal gov has one too. The higher one is required to be paid. The system is currently as you said it should be.

>>128733513
Which will never happen because "good jobs" cost more in wages than bad jobs do. Better to just pay the good jobs the same as the bad jobs and tell people they're lucky to have a job at all.

>>128734167
>>>128731214 (You)
>This burgerbro gets it. People respond to incentives and if there's no additional incentive to do a job that requires more time and investment to be qualified for, then people won't do it, they'll do easier jobs that pay the same.
HOLY SHIT an intelligent person on an econ thread. It must be my birthday.

>>128732396
He'd work less, about just as little as the minwage retard can.

>>128733650
? It's retard-flavored nonsense and go figure you are eating it up lmao

>>128734130
>you'd see employees negotiating for their wages and they'd hold more power over employers.

No they wont, because any higher wage they could demand from their employer there'd be someone willing to do it for less, down to a Spic/Slav living 20 people to a house who'll do it for £2/$2 an hour.

We have too many workers for too few jobs for this to work now without major nationalist protectionist laws, but then they'd just move what parts of the business they can to these cheaper countries and ship the work back.

>>128734170
>The higher one is required to be paid
But that's wrong. That's a terrible idea and nothing like what I said. At most the government could say:
>minimum wage should be 50% of the cost of living for the district in which the person resides in
and nothing else.

Everyone does besides shareholders, we dont have to spend as much on gibs. It also pumps up the economy.

>>128729792
The minimum wage is to economics as creationism is to biology.

>>128733884
It's always painful in the economy to put up with government forced sanctions which artificially disrupt things, and also when you remove those sanctions, which is why they should never be made in the first place.

What you'd find in reality is that labour may become very cheap as companies start to offer less money, but the side effect of this is that they'd be able to offer their products for a lot less money and as such the cost of livng goes back down to what it should be which would be a lot lower. The standard of living would settle back down to about what it is now.

You'll notice that min wage is being raised all the time, it's not sustainable, once the market re-adjusts and everyone else is paid more to keep incentives relatively balanced, you have to raise it again.

>>128734567
Did you miss >>128731214 post?

The employees most certainly would have more negotiating power, be it for higher or lower wages. Plus it gives the employers lateral movement if it turns out the new hired employee is a burn out.

Watch the video I linked to. It covers much of what you're responding with.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFbYM2EDz40

>>128734830
We spend more on gibs due to businesses and states working in unison to have low minimum wages. Also the amount of people who have given up on being in the workforce due to not wanting to work at a gas station for 6.50 an hour.

>>128734830
>they'd be able to offer their products for a lot less money
> as such the cost of livng goes back down

Why would they want to do that? Why not just pay people less and keep paying the same, which is what's happening now with the cost of living going up by wages not. It's clear people will pay 5x the "real" price for a house, and 10x the "real" price for basic foodstuffs, so why not just keep those prices te same and let the plebs fight it out for the lowest wage for what few jobs there are?

And there's no "competition" to go to because everything is owned by a handful of companies.

>>128729792
>why don't african countries just mandate minimum wages to be at least the equivalent of $10 USD/hr?
Do you even economics?

Imposing minimum wage and improving it is, despite the opinion of many underaged memers, a good idea because the surplus in wages almost exclusivly goes into the economy. For example if the minimum wage is 1000$ a month yet the person has to consume 1150$ a month (rising rents, insurances, etc) the person will either have to cut their other expenses by $150, find a better paying job or go into debt. Most will try to cut other costs which will result in a $150 loss for the economy.

>>128729792
Went to the site and NONE of "the reality" is cited in their data available on the site. They have all kinds of shit but not wages by age.
How do they know this if they don't have the data?

topp cuck https://youtu.be/DkmdvvCGhzw

>56% are women
Wow, what a gigantic gender bias, glad the EPI told us.

>>128734912
>The employees most certainly would have more negotiating power

No they wouldn't because there are literally 5 people after every job, and in the current climate they'd eat each other for that job. The one who lives with 10 other people could demand far less than the man with a family to support, and would work maybe 8/10 as hard or as skillful, but be paid half what the father wants.

Even if the cheaper worker is less productive he's not THAT less productive than the family man.

>>128735194
Yea. There's no rule in consumer capitalism that says savings have to be passed on to the consumer. It's actually the opposite, which is why we've seen stagnating wages, record profits for most businesses and higher costs for a lot of manufactured goods relative to wages.

>>128729792
Minimum wage needs to be adjusted with inflation and cost of living per district.

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>>128729792
>If minimum wage increases lower poverty

IF!IF!IF!IF!IF!
IF!IF!
IF!
IF!
IF!
IF!IF!
IF!IF!IF!IF!IF!

>>128735645
jews would never allow it to be tied to inflation.

inflation is how they make sure the minimum wage is meaningless.

even if you did manage to do it somehow, the fed would just print money non stop and crash this country with hyper inflation in 10 years time.

>>128735475
And that video that's being posted assumes that there's any way that a western worker at any level can possibly undercut a third worlder or a machine.

When you can pay some 10 year old semi-slave 50p for a day, how can a western worker complete with that?

>>128736184
Governments should make it illegal to do business with countries that have poor labor laws.

>>128729792
>If minimum wage increases lower poverty, then why don't african countries just mandate minimum wages to be at least the equivalent of $10 USD/hr?
>Wouldn't that bring them out of poverty very quickly?
The mistake you're making is assuming libtards are capable of using logic. You can point this out to them and they will stare at you like a caveman confronted by a hologram sticker, then call you a racist and retreat to their safe space.

If you have a family and rely on minimum wage you fucked up. Minimum wage jobs aren't meant to be life long jobs, hence minimum, for experience in the labor market. You are suppose to move up via college or work experience. If it was to raise, 4 things would happen: prices will rise making living more expensive or small businesses will collapse, larger ones will move out of states with higher minimum or to over seas and inflation would rise. Please stop shilling leftist memes with no understanding of the economy.

>>128729792
>then why don't african countries just mandate minimum wages to be at least the equivalent of $10 USD/hr?
Because most of Africa can't feed itself let alone run a stable economy you stupid fuck.

>>128733884
>The problem with scrapping minimum wage now is that there's so many people competing for jobs that it would just result in a race to the bottom.
So? Everyday of your life you're surrounded by hordes of liberal dumbfucks who are the literally result of too many inferiors being allowed to breed. Restore competition for survival and they will die out very quickly.

>>128736327
But they wont so it's no point to discuss it.

>>128729792
>lmfao
If it was actually a white teenager working those jobs..

I support higher minimum wages because it drives technological innovation.

Why are these people working minimum wage jobs anyway? My first job was at Dominos making minimum wage, and I did that for a few months until I got sick of being paid shit. I think at that time it was $7/hr. I said fuck that and got a job at a warehouse making more than double that with no experience. What the fuck? $15/hr at 18. I simply just walked in and got a better job and learned how to drive a forklift which is nice to have because companies are always looking for that. Even thought I haven't worked at a warehouse in years, I know I can fall back on the forklift as a last resort.

>>128736499
Nope because people want cheap goods, so they dont care if it suppresses wages and creates more poverty. But then they will complain about the suppressed wages and poverty but do nothing to solve the underlying causes.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8uz3uafMe0

Prove him wrong. Hard mode, without insulting him based on his looks, ethnicity, age, etc.

Ontario's minimum wage will be $15/hr, so kill me now.
>also
>>128735310
>KEK
KEK
>>128735310
>KEK
KEK
>>128735310
>KEK
KEK

>>128735310
>KEK
KEK
>>128735310
>KEK
KEK
>>128735310
>KEK
KEK

>>128735310
>KEK
KEK

>>128729792
if you are older than 25 and work minimum wage you are a disgrace and a failure

>>128736490
But they wont because the dumbfucks will be too stupid to realise that they're being ripped off, and they're so numerous that there's no way a non-dumbfuck can ever be more of a benefit than a few more cheap dumbfucks.

Also, what makes you think you'll be the new Lord of the manor and not just another prole working a shitty and dirty job?

And not only that, but you can have smart people from countries with low costs of living who will work dumbfuck wages in non-dumbfuck jobs because he can keep himself in a packed house with 20 others and send the rest home.

>>128730204
Abolish the fed
Bring back gold standard

>>128736746
Many people over 25 work minimum wage jobs because it's what companies pay for their entire staff besides themselves. Even the manager in our store only gets another £1 an hour, but it's pointless leaving because literally EVERY company around here does the same.

here's a noble idea how to escape poverty and minimum wage

don't rely on the government or other people to do it for you. look in the mirror and focus on self improvement. become a non-minimum wage worker. don't be a fucking degenerate worthless piece of shit.

>>128736328
>muh logic

It's very widely agreed that in our case, waged need to increase broadly to drive consumption. There simply isn't healthy parity between real wages, consumption and credit and there hasn't been for a while.

>>128736369

Glad we have so many people who have gotten a grasp on the titanic forces of American poverty and economics in this thread.

>Minimum wage jobs aren't meant to be life long jobs, hence minimum, for experience in the labor market.

Employers give absolutely zero shits about what a job is "meant" to be. To almost every employer, they're balancing hourly wages vs. risk of employee turnover (which they often rely on to keep wages low).

>You are suppose to move up via college or work experience.

Sure, that's what our broader working culture says, but that's empirically not happening.

>prices will rise making living more expensive or small businesses will collapse

Again, there's a point where this would happen but we're far from it. If wages are THAT much of your overhead, you're doing something wrong (like running a restaurant kek)

>>128737086
then its ONLY your fault. If by the time you are 25 you don't have any skills or papers that would qualify you for a job that pays over minimum wage you are a failure.

>>128736746
I literally have no idea how people do this. It's way more effort to fucking work a minimum wage job than to get a job that pays more. I mean that in two different ways, minimum wage jobs are usually the shittiest jobs. Shitty work and shitty bosses that treat you like shit. Plus living your life like shit just so you can stay working a shitty low paying job. There's tons of warehouse jobs that pay from $10 to $15 an hour. It's better work, you aren't treated as shitty, and you get paid more. Literally what the fuck?

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>>128734504

>>128737342
Exactly. Minimum wage jobs are aimed at teenagers, college students. Not fucking adults that have to feed a family and pay their bills.

They are made so some stupid teenager can just go in a shop, get a job, work there for a month and then forget about it.

>>128735420
>No they wouldn't because there are literally 5 people after every job,
talking out of your ass, ahmed

>>128729792
If you raise the floor, you raise the ceiling as well.

>>128737245
I'm literally the warehouse manager, I arrange all ingoing and outgoing goods as well as rotation (used to be the job done by about 5 people on £10 an hour, now it's just me and an """apprentice"""). Every single other version of this job and every other in the store is all minimum wage, as is the case in all other places nearby, and all versions of my job in the area. Are you saying it's my fault for the actions of every business owner in the region does this?

>>128729792
Because niggers couldn't find a total of $10 USD if they collected all the money their whole country

>>128737613
As someone who hires people I can't reiterate this enough: Jobs are not "aimed" at anyone and the wages I pay aren't "designed" to support X lifestyle.

Teenagers and college students simply have better availability and likelihood of turnover which fits with jobs in service.

>>128730560
>implying African countries had an employment rate in the first place

>>128730498
Niggers already shit out at least 10 and they're on fucking foreign aid

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>>128729792
Land lords are the only ones who benefit

increase wage = increased rent

monopoly pricing is a bitch and allodial land ownership is what kills capitalism

>>128737931
>>128737245
>I'm gonna live in a tiny northern European social democracy and tell people in the rust belt and northern England about jobs

Try living in a region the size of central Europe that's experienced systematic economic disinvestment over a period of 40 years and then get back to me about what minimum wage is meant to do.

>>128737342
Around here the shitty and non-shitty jobs both pay the same. You're on minimum wage no matter what colour collar you have. The only people who avoid this are (you guessed it) the people who set the wages and public sector workers.

>>128737650
400,000 jobs available, job seekers number at 2.68 million, so it's 6 people after every job, not 5.

>>128730915
The problem is the opposite of this happens through globalism where you have a massive race to the bottom to employ the closest you can legally get to slaves. Close the fucking borders gas the fucking kikes and the wage problem will solve itself and we can finally actually make fucking money like on the 50s

>>128737613
Or you can pay minimum wage and tell the worker to get fucked if they have a problem with it because someone will work it for that wage. You talk like a fucking boomer who still thinks there's actually jobs here in the West.

>>128731130
Because of globalism (((they))) just use it as an excuse to take more jobs away

>>128738334
Stupid fucking concept the only ones who would be able to afford land would be landlords.With no taxes families could sit on their plot of land forever and never have to sell it to (((them))) because of land taxes.

Who benefits is the government as higher minimal wages = more tax income.

>>128734912
You're forgetting globalism

Workers have no fucking negotiating power because their jobs can just be sent to some slave in China. The reason people get fucking poorer nowadays is globalism. Jews get rich as fuck off it though and they wanted borders gone anyway

>>128738399
Not only that but many seasonal jobs are done by migrant workers from Eastern Europe which has a cost of living half of what we have. So it's not even that they have to move the business to the labour, they can move the labour to the business if they want to.

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>>128731130
In the us companies have trouble hiring minimum wage jobs and when someone does take the job the turnover rate is jarring. It's important to make sure that companies cannot hire out of country labor with visas so eventually these companies will be forced to raise wages. If the business cannot sustain its model with livable wages the business should fail. Blanket minimum wages are unrealistic for a country as large and diverse as the us.

>>128735072
Yeah I don't support gibs anymore than min wage. People would work min wage jobs, or whatever they can afford to make, if they had no other option, because when faced with starve or work, people tend to work.

>>128735194
>Why would they want to do that? Why not just pay people less and keep paying the same, which is what's happening now with the cost of living going up by wages not.
Because in a free market people compete for customers, and you do that by lowering prices to make your product more affordable than a competitor.

So if min wage goes away, I now hire people at my bakery for a wage I think is fair, my costs go down. I have competitors who charge about what I do, and I want to take their customers so I have greater sales, so I lower the price of my bread so that people flock to my bakery. In all competitive markets the profit margins trend towards being very narrow, that's just how free markets operate. This idea that fatcats just hold onto more profit whenever they innovate and drive down costs is not based in reality, there's only very few narrow exceptions to that.

If people could merely charge whatever they want in their particular market for their product, then they'd be doing it before and after government intervention into wages, but that's not what you see. You see prices go up when wages are forced up and you see prices drop when wages drop.

Prices and wages are going up together right now, that's more true the more above the min wage line you are. My wage goes up every year, to cover the cost of inflation plus additional depending on how much more productive I am. People at the bottom of the pile don't experience those kind of natural wage hikes, because they're already overpaid for the work they're doing through forced min wage laws.

>>128736184
By calling for an end to globalism. It's why (((they))) get so fucking scared about anti globalists and are trying to smear us by saying "you just don't like globalism because you're a racist"

>>128738798
This is what I'm saying. In the modern world there's no way you can possibly negotiate enough that there wouldn't be a way to make it cheaper, up to and including automation (which a worker wanting any wage at all will never compete with).

>>128738798
You do realize that not every industry, business, etc. can simply offshore their business right? You also do realise that in negotiating it usually resolves in people having to come to an agreement. Plus there would be plenty of other potential employers if that one employer doesn't agree.

>>128729792
Nice stats, but it doesn't at-fucking-all explain how or why that's true. Saged and hidden for breaking the rules outlined in the sticky.

Money is a unit of measurement for the value of work. Increasing the minimum wage won't do anything to stop people from being poor, it's like trying to introduce more lbs. to weight to make feathers weigh more... all you'll end up doing is making the numbers bigger on both ends while everything ends up weighing the exact same it did before

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>>128738765
Sounds like youre coming from a Rothbardian critique of Georgism

Rothbard is wrong on LVT

>A 100% tax on rent would cause the capital value of all land to fall promptly to zero.

Correct.

>Since owners could not obtain any net rent, the sites would become valueless on the market.

False! They'd be valueless only to those market participants who wish only to speculate in land, not to those who wish to use land in some productive endeavor.

>From that point on, sites, in short, would be free.

Wrong again. While it's true there'd be no sale price for vacant land, one would still have to pay the ground-rent to use it.

>Further, since all rent would be siphoned off to the government, there would be no incentive for owners to charge any rent at all.

Wrong yet again. He's assuming the LVT would be set by an actual ground-rent charged by the landlord, rather than being an assessed value that would have to be recouped. And, I might add, total rental costs would tend to decrease as additional units come on the market as the monopoly stranglehold on land loses its grip.

>Rent would be zero as well, and rentals would thus be free.

He continues to pound a straw man.

>The first consequence of the single tax, then, is that no revenue would accrue from it.

He took a wrong turn, and just keeps going!

>Far from supplying all the revenue of government, the single tax would yield no revenue at all! For if rents are zero, a 100% tax on rents will also yield nothing.

>Compelling any economic goods to be free wreaks economic havoc...the result is to introduce complete chaos in land sites.

Completely false. Even if LVT were applied at a national level, and there were no competition among municipalities for residents, people would still bid on the leases of occupied property, providing price information.

>>128729792
This wouldn't be a problem if the cost of living would stop rising so high compared to wages, it's fucking ridiculous just to buy an apartment in some places.

>>128738951
>So if min wage goes away, I now hire people at my bakery for a wage I think is fair

Or just get Slav migrants and pay them less than what you think is fair. The work will still get done, and they'll do it piled 10 to a house.

>my costs go down
Why would you do that? To "compete"? What makes you think businesses have any interest in "competition"? What makes you think your bakery can compete with Tescos or Morrisons?

>. You see prices go up when wages are forced up and you see prices drop when wages drop.
So how do you explain prices going up and shrinkflation when wages aren't going up?

>>128736499
Depends who's in charge

There was a man who actually helped his country out of the Great Depression by doing this and more. But I'm sure you know how that went when his policies helped his people a little too much for the liking of a certain group...

>>128736706
People are waking up to this. The problem is the ones who benefit from globalism have painted anyone who is opposed to globalism as being just a racist Nazi who doesn't like immigration dismissing the whole argument about the economy

>>128729792
>56% are women
>it's the WOMEN, stupid.

proven right again

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>>128739335
This is what I keep saying but no one actually counters it. If "forcing wages to rise increases cost of living" then why is cost of living rising even when wages aren't?

>>128737981
What I mean by "Aimed" is that as an adult (say around 25 years) who has to support a family you are not expected to work a minimum wage job in a super market.

That job pays so little because its easy, don't require experience or commitment, people on these jobs just come and go.

>>128738480
I am actually a CS major that works a nice paying office job so yeah.

>>128729792
[Outside citaton needed

>>128739302
>Since owners could not obtain any net rent, the sites would become valueless on the market.
I never fucking said that, or any of the other ones, but I guess it's easier to to post a copy paste response that actually think for yourself, and respond to my criticism. If anything I said the contrary.

>>128729792
It would be like making the minimum wage in the US $100 overnight. It's places impossible strain on the country because there's just not enough cash for that to happen. plus it's all about relative costs. To compensate, businesses will have to charge $80 for a loaf of bread to keep up.

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>>128729792
Yes it would, afticans want slave workers, rich africans are rich.
Pic is zombabwe

>>128737093
This.

>>128729792
Assuming sarcasm.
One could argue yes, it might. It would give them an actual reason to work.

Would you work for $2 a day?
Why would anyone go and be a slave to someone else, when you can just sit in the bush and eat grass without being a slave?
Not like that $2's gonna buy you anything nice anyways.

>>128739743
Or you can pay minimum wage for any job and someone will eventually come along who'll do it, or the staff that remain will work even harder to take up the slack meaning that person isn't needed at all, and you can continue paying peanuts to the people working even harder and lining up for an early grave.

I really don't think you understand how shit things are in the English-speaking world. Anything "high skill" will just be done by "apprentices" or "interns" who'll be paid next-to nothing because of "experience".

>CS Major
Enjoy being replaced by a Pajeet.

>>128729792
$10/hour...

As an engineer in here i earn around $14/hour however i have to pay 50% custom tax + $10 for most of the stuff i buy.

All in all i´m while i´m just a bit better off than the average bureger flipper, they don´t have to deal with complicated stuff, deadlines and shitty employees, just go in and absentmindedly flip burgers for 8 hours.

I hope that people that complain about US minium wage being too low eventually get forced to live some years in a shithole like mine, only then they would understand how amazing their country is.

>>128740144
They are naive retards who believe in "deserve".

>>128737342
Except when you live in a shithole like Canada lose the actual good job because the business died or moved elsewhere and the only jobs available are minimal wage and even those are disappearing yet we pay for ever increasing costs of everything because reasons yet unknown. And welfare? Yeah you can't go on that unless you've gone and sold everything you own to some chink yet they bring people in and give them twice the amount the average person makes here in a year

I'm not working minimum wage now but shit tons of people rely on it to get them through periods when good jobs they're actually qualified for are nonexistent or laying off people. But hell living here is to live a life of shitty low paying jobs because even the good paying ones don't pay enough to pay for fuck all because costs are inflated due to globalism

>>128740141
>Would you work for $2 a day?

Someone would. Might not be in this country, but someone will work for that.

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Nothing will ever be enough to satisfy the minimum wage people. I'm just lucky I can get paid $14/hr at Walmart after being here for over a decade.

>>128739887
Excuse me for thinking you were actually coming from a place with knowledge; clearly you dont understand what Georgism or the LVT/single tax is.

>Stupid fucking concept the only ones who would be able to afford land would be landlords.

No dipshit the tax would free up supply in land, you would no longer have an incentive to sit and speculate, you could no longer be an absentee landlord. The tax would force people to be efficient in their use of land. The mortgage business would be orders of magnitude lower and housing would no longer be an investment vehicle

>With no taxes families could sit on their plot of land forever and never have to sell it to (((them))) because of land taxes.
You pay a yearly LVT

This makes no sense and is literally the opposite of what would happen

>>128740172
Your shit situation has nothing to do with the sotuations of others, blame a low minim wage fpr your rtrouble.

Nearly all the current public assistance models run off of yearly income.

An increased minimum wage encourages people to cut back their hours in order to keep their benefits.

Poverty being the magic line that it is l keeps people actively seeking a number below that. You can't subsidize something without expecting people to chase it.

>>128729792
Minimum wage should be for people on the left. You'd think having kids would push a minimum wage worker to vie for promotions, and look for higher paying jobs.

>>128740309
That part was mostly rhetorical, and contextual to the observation under it.

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>>128740278
You "deserve" to be paid as little as possible and survive on a diet of white rice and tap water.

It's the same with living standards, where people would say "how can you say you're poor if you have electricity" if it got that bad.

>>128738765
>the only ones who could afford land would be landlords

Except that's actually the reality in this country except the landlords are all chinks laundering or storing their money and most of the time they're not even renting their places

>>128740144
>Enjoy being replaced by a Pajeet.

Obviously you don't know shit mate, its a meme.

You can't just work on something and one day just like that be replaced by some random pajeet, even if he was working for half of what I make and hired 2 of them in my place it still wouldn't be efficient to replace them with me.

>>128729792
it doesn't work like that
most minimum wage jobs aren't worth $15 a hour in value

>>128740525
This, all these retards who say low minimum wage is good should go be engineer in china or india, minimum wage increases the bar for pay for everyone, ypu remove it, employers have more leverage to pay you lessand less.

>>128739061
So we must put an end to globalism. Only (((they))) will lose out

>>128739181
Not all of them but enough of them that it's really fucked the people in terms of having enough money especially when the slaveowners the jobs were offshored to come over here and fuck our cost of living via laundering through the real estate market plus fleeing because they're turning their own country into a toxic wasteland

>>128729792
Because the african countries your're thinking of are still mostly agricultural based societies and the idea of a minimum wage does not even make sense in that kind of economy.

>>128740558
Tell that to the hordes of pajeets Im seeing now, disney workers already got pajeeted, if you don't think foctors will work for bread and water go look at india china and cuba

>>128739260
That's literally how "money" worked in the USSR. What money is supposed to do is represent some material of value (like how the gold standard was for example)

>>128731777
Because a black man just moved in to town and is getting in the way of their meth business.

>>128740141
>niggers
>ever wanting to work

The few that did work would just be killed and stolen from

>>128740387
Oh, right, yes, because a private landowner with a blue collar income would obviously be in a better position to pay a large tax on his land than a landlord forcing all his renters into commie blocks. And I am the retard.
I never denied it would reduce speculation, off course it would, but it wouldn't make life better for individual lifeowners. But hey you're a complete retard so I shouldn't expect much from you.
Of course, if you just eliminate taxes now when a ton of property is already owned by speculators and landlords you're not helping anybody obviously. It's before this shit happened that you need to eliminate property taxes. Then in what way are you forced to sell it to some jew? It would become priceless, that's the point, and there would be no associated costs to the family for keeping this land.
Good luck with your retarded system though lol.

>>128739680

Cost of living increases without matching salary raise because people inherit.

The first generations to die with and meaningful amount of wealth have been doing so for a while now. They leave behind houses to older children, who often don't have a use for the money. (They worked and bought their own houses).

With that money, they cover down payments for their children. If they don't do that, then they upgrade their existing homes.

Either way, there is increased demand for houses in the cities (job centers).

In addition, when other goods get cheaper, people are more able to afford rent. Landlords increase prices becsuse they know the market as a whole can afford it.

This pushes urban cost of living up, even if we are better at making nearly everything else more cheaply.

You fix cost of living by deregulation of construction. You remove the urban growth boundaries that keep cities from becoming nightmarish mertropoli. You let apartment complexes build wide and high.

>>128729792
Please be bait

>>128740449
>Your shit situation
My situation is good, i just don´t happen to live in great country like the US.

> blame a low minim wage for your trouble.
You have no idea what are you talking about, if anything the high minium wage in this country is one of the things that have fucked it up so much.

>>128729792
if you want to eradicate poverty forget about minimum wage. The problem is the state granted allodial land monopoly. Embrace land value taxation as the only tax to fund government. Embrace Georgism

>Georgeism reconciles common land rights with private tenure, free markets and modern capitalism.

>Those who got the upper hand by securing land tenures would support public services, so wages and commerce and capital formation could go untaxed.

> To pay the taxes, landowners would have to use the land by hiring workers (or selling to owner-operators and owner-residents). This would raise demand for labor; labor, through consumption, would raise demand for final products.

>To pay the workers, landowners would have to produce and sell goods, hereby raising supply and precluding inflation. Needed capital would come to their aid by virtue of its being untaxed. Thus, George would cut the Gordian knot of modern dilemma-bound economics by raising demand, raising supply, raising incentives, improving equity, freeing up the market, supporting government, fostering capital formation, and paying public debts, all in one simple stroke.

>George's proposal enables us to lower taxes on labor without raising taxes on capital. Indeed, it lets us lower taxes on both labor and capital at once, and without reducing public revenues.

> Georgist tax policy reconciles equity and efficiency. Taxing land is progressive because the ownership of land is so highly concentrated among the most wealthy,'8 and because the tax may not be shifted. It is efficient because it is neutral among rival land-use options: the tax is fixed, regardless of land use. This is one favourable point on which many modern economists actually agree, although they keep struggling against it

>>128729792
Where would this money come from, OP? What goods/services would be performed in africa for a high (or any) minimum wage? What business incentive is there for companies to invest in a subpar, uneducated workforce?

>>128740930
USA will become theird wod country with chink and pajeet migrations and corp profits will increase

>>128739405
If they'll do the job for what is less than I think is fair, then in what sense is it unfair? Jobs and wages are negotiated between people, there's no such thing really as fair, there's only what people are willing to put up with.

I want to compete because if I cannot compete with Tescos or Morrisons in some way then people will go and buy bread from them and I'll go out of business. That is the whole principle of capitalism, you compete and the competitive stay in business and the uncompetitive tend to go out of business.

You can compete with Tescos or Morrisons, loads of little bakeries all over the country do it.

Shrinkflation is just another way of raising the price of your goods, you charge the same amount but for less, it's a way of trying to hide the fact you're charging more.

Wage ARE going up, they KEEP raising the min wage in the UK over and over again it's what causes shrinkflation, the business owners pass this additional cost of labour onto their customers to maintain their profit margins.

If you're on min wage then you're probably already overpaid already so you're not going to get natural wage increases until you represent more value to your employer. People who are already paid well above min wage, such as myself, we see regular wage increases year on year to combat the devaluation of the currency, in fact a lot of us have it in our contract to automatically adjust our wages to match with inflation.

The only people this hurts is people on or close to the poverty line, because they're the people that cant afford the increase in cost of milk/bread and the basics. Do you think me on >£50k cares if that goes up a few pence? Especially when I'm compensated for that amount through automatic wage adjustment? Hint: No.

>>128741358
Minimum wage is a % of profits produced.

Minimum wage destroys young workers and their working careers/lives.

>Be young worker
>Inexperienced, needs work experience to develop
>Can't get a job where career progression exists because you can't produce enough to pay your mandated minimum hourly wage
>Can barely jobs where everyone else is also attempting to get a job (McDonalds, Walmart, etc)
>You don't develop skills, remain unemployed or employed in a shitty job
>Can't save
>Can't buy a house
>Impregnate someone
>Later, be 35 years old
>Still not much better because your skills haven't really developed from flipping burgers.

If minimum wage was abolished

>Be young worker
>Join some good trade with shitty pay while you live with parents
>Develop real skills and work experience
>Progressively earn more until your earnings are way above minimum wage level.

>>128740531
There's property taxes though. How would you keep a house in Toronto with the kind of taxes you'd pay there? You had to sell to mc.kike conglomerate.

>>128741399
Pajeet fuck, go back to india.

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>>128729792
>just print money and everyone can have a billion dollars
What could go wrong???

>>128737075
/thread

>>128741519
Eat shit.

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>>128741177
>Oh, right, yes, because a private landowner with a blue collar income would obviously be in a better position to pay a large tax on his land than a landlord forcing all his renters into commie blocks

Yeah i guess i should have mentioned that the LVT would replace all other taxes on activities consumptive productive and recreational. The only people who would be adversely effected would be large land owners and speculators, you know the literal leeches of society
> It would become priceless
your now at the point that you can understand the argument in >>128739302

No one benefits from higher minimum wages.

>>128741592
>Pajeet fuck, go back to india.
What you call me u son of basterd bich?

>>128740868
Why not? Would getting more money not want you to work harder?

If I was a nigger, lived in niggerland. I have 2 options.
Be a literal slave for $2 or less a day, so I can spend it on literal garbage.
Or I can go out and build my own little mudhouse, Find myself a male/female cowthing ect and live a mostly equally shit life, except I dont have to be someone's slave.

>>128730900
based kek

>>128741680
No ine cares what you do Africa.

>>128741358
Where does money anywhere come from? Oh yes, the banks just make it out of nowhere. If you take a loan of $5, the bank can make $50. because "reasons".

Americans get paid about 50-60% less than Australians in terms of minimum wages and yet everything is essentially the same price. America is the richest country in the world and has 40 million people below the poverty line. Keep sucking that corporate cock while I get paid $26 an hr for unskilled work while paying the same price for food and entertainment

>>128730795
why has no1 thought of this before?

>>128730757
Didn't get past the first economics course I see

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>>128742035
I hate neocucks and faggot democrats
Minimum wage mcd is 7.25$

>>128729792
Even better if it was raised to US $1m per hour so they only had to work one hour and then theyd be set. They could use their amazing investing skills to live off of interest.

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>>128742404
Minim aus is 16$ and mcd is making baaaank

>>128742422
Thats more than the total trade workers bring in.

>>128731130
Let's assume that we are talking about food service workers. If we double the minimum wage that would double the labor cost of the restaurant. The standard formula for restaurant food item is 30/30/30/10. Labor, building, food, profit. The cost increase in labor will have to be absorbed somewhere in that chain or prices will have to increase.
Technically the law of supply and demand does not care about labor costs in the final price but as more places go out of business because they can not absorb the increased costs the supply of food places will go down. If supply goes down while demand remains the same price will increase. The gains in wage will be absorbed by inflation soon after. If you include basic human nature the inflation effect will happen much faster because the excuse to raise prices will be evident and it will effect an industry broadly. So everyone will raise prices because everyone has to.
Alternatively you could gain a skill that makes you as an individual worth your price. "I make $100 worth of burgers an hour there fore I am worth $20 an hour".
Also in the real world there is 30-50% overhead in the price of labor. $10 hour to the employee costs the employer $13-$15 am hour in actual costs.

>>128741399
>there's only what people are willing to put up with.
Which, in this economy, and with migration, is a race to the bottom.

> the business owners pass this additional cost of labour onto their customers to maintain their profit margins.
Are you sure they don't do it to get more profit for less cost? Are you sure it's not a decision done regardless of wages?

> until you represent more value to your employer
Except that any "value" you do provide will always be done by someone else (maybe somewhere else) for a lot less.

>>128742538
Whoops $17

>>128741759
Because in an agricultural based society currency is not as big a deal. If almost everyone is growing rice or herding cattle and goats in small villages then the concept of a minimum wage is nonexistent. Most of the time they barter and trade goods except in the few and small cities.

You need to build up industry and industrialize in order for the idea of a minimum wage to even make sense.

It's like if you tried to invent a nail without first making a hammer. You're asking why a place with no square holes don't simply make square pegs when their problem is they haven't even made the round ones yet for the round holes they already have.

Keep an eye on Tanzania though. They're currently an agricultural based country but if they keep going at the rate they're going they might shoot out of third world status in a few good decades. It's enough that the country is now swarmed with Germans and Chinese who want to invest in the developments there.

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>>128742538
>minimum wage is bad
>richest countries have the highest minum wage poorest have the lowest

>>128742698
It's because they hire 14 yr olds who can legally be paid around $12. In any case, a high minimum wage has changed nothing here. Haven't had a recession in 25 years and a big mac meal is like $8

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>>128729792
>36 years old
>woman
>with children
>earning half the family's income on a min wage job meant for highschoolers.

Oh yeh I feel really sorry for those fucking morons.

>actually work minimum +TIP!
>everytime minimum wage goes up I end up with less in the long run
>obamacare took me from barely middle class to nearly destitute poor

The worst part is, most my coworkers were bernouts and really believe that if we just keep piling on the insanity it will eventual fix their lives.

>>128742819
Minimum wage is not inflation, it doesnt print money, it means shares of the profits produced by the workers to retain.

>>128742623
They won't go out of business and their business will increase as people have more money to spend.

You do not understand economics in the slightest you just parrot what you hear certain political pundits say.

>>128743154
Saying minimum wage is bad is saying high wages are vad and eceryone should be paid 1 cent a hour, the shares produced by worker, you get a cent.

>>128743154
It inflates the value of labor which means that companies must increase the efficiency of their workforce or raise prices, and when prices raise across large parts of the economy either standard of living goes down or the dollar inflates and everyone not making minimum wage eventually just gets a raise.

>>128742623
>"I make $100 worth of burgers an hour there fore I am worth $20 an hour".

Or some Mexican or Slav can make $50 an our, but only want $5 an hour because he'll live in a shitty dive with 20 other people. So you'll have two workers making the same amount of stuff but for half the wages.

>>128730757
>So much this.
Wages are a function of supply and demand. As long as the labor pool isn't artificially increased (immigration) then the wages will rise. When there are more workers than jobs, wages will always stagnate or decrease. Anything the fills the labor pool (immigration, raise retirement age, etc) or lowers the number of available jobs (sluggish economy, offshoring, etc) changes the ratio.

>More available jobs than workers = higher wages.

>having children when you're not rich

not even meming, these people should be thrown in prison

>>128743154
What does that have to do with anything that I said?

I'm describing an economy where there is little in the way of workers and profits because most people are in a tiny rural village herding cattle. They barter with each other more often than bother with currency, of which they have little except in places where inflation is high, in which case they still technically have little but it weighs more and is therefore less practical in their lifestyle.

The concept of wages is for people in cities, of which there are few because their country has not industrialized enough to where the majority can even do that.

You're talking about wage and inflation in places that barely even have currency.

>>128743463
Or they can increase "efficiency" (employ less people and work them harder), raise prices, and let the proles fight it out on a race to the bottom because a migrant will always work for less.

>>128743447
What a coincidence everyone wants to leave where they get a cent of total profits produced to a place they get 16$

>>128742853
That's observably false you commie.

Switzerland doesn't even have a minimum wage rate.

If anything rich developed economies just tend to have high wages to appeal to middle class socialists sense of equality because coal burner Jane didn't finish high school and got stuck as single mother with Jamal's and Tyrone's kids.

>>128743463
It doesnt inflate anythhing, it gives more money to workers.

>>128743514
>less immigration causes wages to rise
So why would any employer be against mass immigration?

>>128730202

and government backed programs to keep Germany and it's industry competitive such as mandatory overtime for free in some production jobs.

>>128743514
Guess who drives the policy regarding the flooding of immigrants for infinite growth. There's plenty of shitskins to do menial work, and when your gov is full of bought clintons and cohens, theyll be on their way whenever there's a slight laboir shortage

>>128743190
They have more money to spend..... On items that now c ost more to cover the increased wages.... Are you this stupid on purpose? I hope you are just ironic and I took the bait but damn man.
>Arbitrarily increase cost of labor
>Big business loves it because they can afford it
>Small business cant compete and close, leaving the big box stores to scoop up the customers


Yeah but people will have more money so its ok because they aren't as poor

>Everyone stays on the same level if you keep raising the floor

>>128743677
Switzerland has worker unions.

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Part two, prove this man wrong.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TGkfjaxFWs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4SIEl1j8e4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4Ubp7U9Dq4

>>128741678
I already did understand the arguments perfectly fine, they're are just ridiculous. I will conceded that it would probably eliminate land speculation, never said otherwise anyways.
Lets say I am a aspiring landlord, and property value collapses because of taxes to the point where the low value of the land balances the insane taxes, making it affordable. Why would it more expensive for me to pay for that land than a normal property holder? Nothing.
Your system would only force exploitation instead of pointless hoarding, but for all intents and purposes renting is a valid form of exploitation in this case, unless your tax system is more intricate than you have shown so far, which is basically eliminate all other taxes and tax property value instead.

As for my reasoning, ill admit I am not sure how you'd start over, you'd have to do it only in areas were the land development is low, basically just a bunch of family owned farms, although having two different systems in different neighboring places might fuck things up. By itself, however, if you eliminate all taxes for those individual property holder, afterwards what's preventing them from holding that land forever? Nothing, they would always be within their means to keep it. Sure they could sell it if they want, for quite a large price so there would be an incentive, but making a change like that would culturally change the way people view land, it would be worst than selling their body. There would be a few idiots who would serve as an example for others. A shitone of quirks with that system, until you realize they would still be "sold", just not for currency but rather for more land. When the land develops families could rent their land to companies, and while that technically still preserves landlords, it would be perpetually decentralized. And yes some might become very wealthy simply because of lucky positioning but that it nothing new, and monopolies for land would be extremely hard to maintain.

>>128729792
Raising the minimum wage does not increase buying power, it just causes inflation.

>>128742632
Yeah, good argument for ending immigration, ending min wage, ending benefits and letting the free market settle on what is fair as everyone negotiates their own wage, and get back to the industrial revolution era where prices for everything actually dropped year on year instead of increasing like now.

>>128742632
>Are you sure they don't do it to get more profit for less cost? Are you sure it's not a decision done regardless of wages?
Businesses are always trying to get more revenue for less cost, they seek to maximize profit where possible. That happens no matter what is going on with min wage at the time. What caps that to be reasonable is competition with other similar businesses. If you charge more than a competitor then people will tend to flock to your competitor for cheaper goods, so you have to lower prices to stay in business.

>>128742632
>Except that any "value" you do provide will always be done by someone else (maybe somewhere else) for a lot less.
That's self evidently not true because what we observe in reality is a wide array of different jobs that all pay a wide array of different amounts. So I'm an IT Director in a small city in the UK, I get paid about the market rate for my job.

As you gain value to an employer they'll pay you more money, doing my job is quite stressful, if I wasn't paid what I'm paid then I wouldn't do it, I'd go and do another job that's easier and less stressful that pays about the same. I'm paid more for doing this job than say doing systems administrator work which I used to do, but I have to be available more hours in the day, I have more responsibility which means if I mess up it's a more costly problem, that creates stress.

People respond to incentives, they wont do a harder job that takes more skill, more effort and is more stressful for the same amount of money as another job which is easier.

>>128743514
That has never been true. Wages don't rise on their own and never have, except for the people at the top of course.

I'm sure if everyone was super nice and caring they would see to it that their workers got what they were worth, rather than seeing how little they could get away with paying the people far enough below them as a way of cutting costs.

The point of minimum wage is because people can't be trusted to pay their workers fairly so at the very least their workers shouldn't be living off of pennies. That's why it was fucking invented.

>>128729792
Hey, OP Why don't banks print more money, that way they could pay people 100 dollars an hour!

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>>128729792
>Who benefits from minimum wage?

Losers it seems

>>128743750
They wouldn't be. In fact, the recent "need" for offshoring labor is essentially the next step of immigration, taking the job to the immigrant so they don't even have to move.

>>128743750
Large corporations rely on it, ever wonder why 90% of silicon valley is pajeets?

>>128729792
I say go nuts, raise the minimum wage.

I don't depend on minimum wage jobs. Let them raise it and see what happens.

>>128743916
How can you be so retarded?

>>128743840
Or you just increase the price of goods anyway, then make legislation so complex that small companies can barely get off the ground without breaking some esoteric "rule" that only exists to keep them down.

When only a few companies own everything, what reason would they have to "compete" with themselves? Just increase the prices and tell the proles to starve if they don't like it.

>>128738836
>It's important to make sure that companies cannot hire out of country labor with visas so eventually these companies will be forced to raise wages.
This is the secret.

>>128731130
Lol if you think local and small business owners make much profit at all let alone enough to buy a yacht.

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So we're talking about people that barely the majority of works full time?

Because Education is an important factor in money management. You could increase that chit to $100 and idiots would still blow their money on useless chit.

>>128743988
Printing money doesnt produce anything only lowers the value of the current supply of currency held for goods and services.

>gullible idiots letting their media convince them that raising minimum wage increases inflation
This is how the people at the top stay at the top.

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>>128743840
>>Everyone stays on the same level if you keep raising the floor
meaningless idiomatic bs
THANKS!

>>128744025
>what happens
>apolxalytic reactionary corp shills say fire everyone!
>reality strikes and they realize they will have to pay $15 an hour to workers or see their profits tank.

>>128744272
t. man whose parents do his grocery shopping

>>128743957
>ending immigration
>ending benefits
Which isn't going to happen so don't even bother arguing based on them not being present.

> If you charge more than a competitor then people will tend to flock to your competitor for cheaper goods
OK, you're a bakery selling more than Tesco. Tesco then drops its baked goods to half of yours and takes the hit on loses until you fold. Now what?

> in reality is a wide array of different jobs that all pay a wide array of different amounts
It's not my fault people are too stupid to just pay minimum wage and letting the workers get fucked if they don't like it.

> if I wasn't paid what I'm paid then I wouldn't do it
Enjoy starving.

>I'd go and do another job that's easier and less stressful that pays about the same.
Which is what everyone is doing because no matter how highly skilled you are then you'll barely be paid any more for it.

>People respond to incentives
Not starving is a good incentive. We should just pay what is needed for a loaf of bread.

>>128729792
They're both white?

Min wage benefits the thick and the greedy - i.e., not white.

>>128743840
You're so close. You look at all of the stuff going up and then your brain shuts down and decides that nothing else will go up with it and somehow we'll be back where we started.

>>128743736
Before minimum wage: fry cooks cost 8 dollars an hour.
After minimum wage: fry cooks cost 15 dollars an hour.

How is that not increasing the price of labor?

Why do things cost as much as they do?

Always wondered that.

>>128744314
Mechanic makes 15 an hour
Mc burger flipper makes 10

Min wage is not 15, now Mechanic makes 15 an hour and now mc burger flipper makes 15....


If you raise the floor everyone will be on it... meaningless idiomatic BS my ass

>>128744447
Says the man living off welfare and has never worked a full time job in his life.

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This deserves 15 dollars per hour. Deal with it.

Oy vey goyim stop preventing us from devaluing the dollar

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>>128743909
>Lets say I am a aspiring landlord, and property value collapses because of taxes to the point where the low value of the land balances the insane taxes, making it affordable. Why would it more expensive for me to pay for that land than a normal property holder? Nothing.

rentier capitalism is not moral and is the reason why you get increased poverty with increased wealth; if your an aspiring landlord get fucked and do something productive for society

>tax property value
The tax would be on the unimproved value of the land itself not on improvements which is what is meant by land rent

land rent gets paid either way -- regardless of whether or not it gets diverted into the public treasury.

Even when you pay the sale price of land, you are paying land rent, since the sale price is simply the rental value divided by the interest rate. And since land is in fixed supply, decreases in land value taxation are invariably capitalized by titleholders into higher rents and land prices. Thus, people in general, and the working poor in particular, end up paying back in higher rents and land prices what they presumably get from the tax cut; and pay back even more in terms of (1) a lower margin of production (and thus lower pre-tax wages), and (2) a heavier reliance on wage and sales taxes.

So once again, it is not a question of if land rent gets paid, but to whom and on what basis -- to a fraction of the population, on the basis of the earth being "owned" by a relative few; or to everyone equally, on the basis of the earth being that to which all have an equal right of access?

As for poor people, the LVT would actually make it much easier for them to acquire land, since it would reduce the artificially high price of land, as well as increase wages by raising the margin of production, on the one hand, and reducing the need for wage taxes, on the other.

>>128744025
Well same here, I'm way above it, but the problem is that it actually causes poverty, it creates an underclass that's dependent on the government gimmiedats, so the govt end up buying huge amount of votes.

This causes greater gap in pay, we've been pursing income equality as nations for ages now, but it's getting worse no better. And when relative poverty gets quite high then you end up with a lot more violence in society, the people that feel hard done by tend to start aggressing against successful people.

Jordan Peterson has some excellent lectures that cover this kind of thing.

>>128744769
How would they benefit from a devalued dollar?

>>128743909
Landownership would always be closely tied to the family, and trying to be a landowner independent of it would be hard, plus immigration would have to be limited to marriage basically, which is not a bad thing. Just how large a family could get would also be limited, not a bad thing either.
Only way I could see having it being exploited is a very complicated and very long term form of land speculation, where semi rich families trade small swats of high value land, which wont gain much value, for large swats of low valued land that will gain a lot of value in the future, and do this constantly for a very long times. Since they be doing as a family and not an individual, they'd most likely just grow proportionally o the extra land they managed to hoard, their family just breaking up as diluted versions of the original one once it gets too big to remain coherent. Some public property would be preserved obviously, and could dynamically change with land for land transfers. There's probably more problems with it but this whole thing is just something I completely shat out after seeing your picture, didn't really have times to think about it.

>>128729792
how the fuck can a 36 year old be on minimum wage? You've had 20 years to climb the career ladder. If you're that old and haven't got your shit together you don't deserve anything.

>>128744744
Question: if a machine did that but you paid the same, would you accept it? If they were paid 50c an hour and the burger cost the same, would you accept it?

>>128731130
Because a raising of minimum wage is essentially a subsidy for niggers, and nobody likes niggers.

>>128744341
They dont have any retarded super machines to replace workers in australia they wont have it in US

Big mac australia 4.30$
Big mac usa 3.57$
Minimum wage usa 7.25$
Minimum wage aus 16.88$

>>128729792
Okay let's go over this together so your semi functioning assburgers riddled brain can get it.
When a company raises the wages of unskilled workers they must also raise the price of their products in order to recoup financial loss. Now when a large company does this like McDonald's (Because your dumb ass probably eats their on a regular) it puts pressure on other businesses to do the same for other unskilled workers and before you know it the average person is paying six dollars American for something that should at a maximum cost two.

>>128744693
And yet you are the one too stupid to understand inflation, a basic core concept of economics, because you don't have to pay for anythingg living off the bank of mom and dad.

>>128729792
You have a serious problem if you're not making more than minimum wage past age 23.

Can we stop focusing on the minimum wage and focus on telling people to stop dealing with the minimum and to actually strive/work for something better?

minimum wage should only support one person, in a one room studio apartment.

not a fucking family

>inb4 old mr money bags
i'm 24 and a software developer with no debt as i didnt go to college.

learn to play the game faggots

also: INFLATION
$15minimum wage is nothing more than the lefts version of trickle down economics.

>>128729991
Quit telling the truth

>>128744744
I'm giggling at the idea of a quality control app that enables users to send pictures of their crappily made fast food directly to corporate executives where its their job to approve every single individual discount.

one at a time.

>>128743979
I tend to agree with you about the greed of those at the top and their unwillingness to "share". I also understand that if they are so short-staffed that if begins to affect their profits, they WILL pay higher wages to fill the empty positions.
For all their faults, this is where trade unions excelled (before becoming bloated). They essentially forced the greedy employer into a labor shortage where they would be willing to share (pay higher wages).

There was a time in U.S. history (50's-60's) when everything worked well, when U.S. companies prospered, when american workers, many represented by trade unions, were well paid, infrastructure was solid (roads and schools, etc). Hell, Mom could even stay home and raise the kids that are now raised by the television and social media.
>Wouldn't it be terrible to get back to that?

>>128745063
Why is the price of the product rising when no one's wage is rising then?

>and before you know it the average person is paying six dollars American for something that should at a maximum cost two.
Why not just charge $6 anyway.

>>128744744
It does in most of Europe, Austrailia, etc. Somehow they still turn a profit. It's almost as if they can afford to pay their employees a livable wage and are only taking advantage of how the US hasn't increased its minimum wage with inflation, meaning more profits at the top.

>>128744610
Coherent arbitrariness

https://academic.oup.com/qje/article-abstract/118/1/73/1917051/Coherent-Arbitrariness-Stable-Demand-Curves?redirectedFrom=PDF

Things cost what they do because that is how much businesses charge for them.

Why does a Damien Hirst print cost £5k?

>>128730560
The one person with a job would lose it

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>>128744927
You cant dodge a land value tax unless you dont own land

with these swaps; the large landowner would be paying a higher and higher LVT as those undervalued properties rose in value. They have literally no incentive to own more land than they can make productive use out of

>>128744942
No it's unacceptable either way. I'm not sure of the point you're trying to make.

>>128744580
Yes it does, but the business still is at a large profit and if tgey raise prices as reaction they wont get sale and will lose profits, and do they will accept paying workers $15 an hour.

Arbitrarily raising minimum wage by acts and edicts only devalues the currency and reduces purchasing power. Increasing the numerical value of a wage paid in debt-based interest-bearing fiat currency does nothing but impress simpletons who think bigger numbers = better and have never even heard the term purchasing power.
If you want to really raise wage levels in a first world nation, you have to shrink the labor supply, best way to do that is deport immigrants.

Kill people who support the minimum wage. Literally kill them

>>128745197
>they WILL pay higher wages to fill the empty positions.
None of the local businesses did. They just worked everyone harder, to the point where the waitresses in the café actually had to run carrying the food to the tables and collecting orders. The boss just put a "run path" that was cordoned off so they didn't bump into customers.

>>128745288
Sounds like a bunch of bologna.

A big old game of jenga bologna.

>>128745364
>No it's unacceptable either way

So why make the snarky "hurr this doesn't deserve money" if money or even what made it isn't the issue?

>>128745197
Trade unions in a the US have turned to crap, but people here turn them into a dirty word instead of thinking of them as a broken thing to be fixed.

Meanwhile unions in Europe have kept US companies from underpaying employees in chains opened up over there (by paying them what they do here) and we're stuck with a bunch of idiots who think we should keep minimum wage what it was when the dollar was worth a lot more than it is now, and not raise it to match the inflation that has already happened.

>>128731214
The fuck do you think you do that you're worth 21 bucks an hour? You sucking cock?

>>128729792
Can I get the % that receive additional government welfare?

>>128744580

> Let's say an automated frying machine is profitable at 10 dollars an hour
>Minimum wage law is 15 dollars/hour
>Human becomes unemployed

>>128745205
The reason it's rising in your country is because your government fucked up and took in a few to many gib hungry rapefugee. While here in burger land our prices keep going up do to over taxation on corporations along with government bail outs basically raining from the heavens if you have ever watched the episode of South Park about the Margareta blender and the government debt buy out process that's why we keep sinking deeper and deeper into a fucking financial hole

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>>128744985
On a days work in australia off minimum you get $135, big mac costs $4.37 , off a days work in usa minimum wage you get $58, big mac costs $3.57

>Who benefits from a higher minimum wage?
Robots and makers thereof.

>>128731130
If raising the cost of burger by 15cents made McCarbohydrate more money, they would do it minimum wage or not minimum wage.
>this is the level of retardation we have to deal with

>>128744540
>Which isn't going to happen
We just triggered article 50 largely on the basis of controlling immigration because when things get bad enough people stop leaning towards liberalism and start learning back towards conservatism, because it's proven to work. That means close the border, look after our own people, get back to being productive. Liberalism and massive immigration is a luxury that the poor and working class pay for.

Tesco can use their weight to try and close down businesses and could succeed if they wanted. But the moment they put their prices back up competition will come back and all they'll have to show for this is a huge loss of profit. Again NOTHING to do with min wage that could happen regardless of min wage and generally doesn't.

In fact there's good reasons why min wage hurts places like tescos less, because with larger profits they can afford to invest in alternatives to manual labour, machines to make bread that cost a lot to invent but low running costs. Small businesses can't afford to do that as easily. You've seen what happens when min wage gets too high, McDonalds start replacing the people behind the tills with self serve kiosks. In fact some of the large chains which are poised to do this will sometimes campaign for higher min wage laws because they know they're prepared to replace their staff where are competitors aren't and it gives them a huge advantage to force that law on everyone.

>It's not my fault people are too stupid to just pay minimum wage
So your theory is that successful and wealthy business owners are just stupid because they pay their min wage workers more that min wage.

Well you're obviously trolling, well done, you got me. That's a good 6/10

>>128745478
This.
They don't go for a long term fix like paying their employees more, they go for short term profits that involve working them harder and putting a bandied on every problem that comes up.

They'll only raise wages on their own if pressured from somewhere, by either government regulation through minimum wage, or by employees banding together in a union and demanding it.

Funny how the right in the US has been convinced that both options are wrong and liberal and not to be trusted.

>>128745804
I cant stand these nigger spics and kikes ruining the culture and social fabric of our society

>>128731309
I don't yet because my wife and I (together we make 125k before taxes) have house payments and money to the college new.

Are we poor? When does the equity count to our value?

>>128745716
Let's say a machine that does everything from order, to making, to delivery, costs £10,000, which means in a 24hr McDonalds it costs £8.70 an hour just for one year, after that it's profit.

BUT it's doing the job of 3-4 people, who to work at an equal level to the machine would need to be paid £2-3 an hour just to break even.

For that year.

A human can never undercut a machine enough that it wouldn't be worth replacing a human with a machine.

>>128737245
>This coming from the dutch guy.
I don't understand you, you should know by now nothing matters anymore, especially in Europe.
Go on, go to college, waste 5 years of your life on doing shit you don't really want nor need, learning stuff thats absolute bullshit amidst shitskins and sjw's.. in a few years, the entire eurozone will collapse and it won't matter if you've studied personal growth economics tier 2 alpha, or whatever, since you, your family, my family, your neighbours, my neighbours, we all will either end up dead or on the streets.
Better learn how to build a house, I guess.