Would the EU have fared better if it was made purely for

For sure

Britain didn't leave over money, that's the mistake (((they))) keep making

>>128608237
I don't know. But it shouldn't have grown so much. Between 8 to 12 countries is more than enough. Anything bigger can't be ruled or even be regulated.

>>128608391
They entered over money. Money they needed dearly in the 1970s.

>>128608237
Better, yes.
Good, no.

>>128608237
Wasn't it made mostly for economic gain?

>>128608237

Economic agreements only can't work on long term.

Country A and country B have an agreement on, let's say, apples. Both agree on fair trade and not harming other party.
Later, country B has another agreements with C, still on apples. This agreement breaks A-B, on apples size, apples sugar level...

At some point, in pure economic partnerships, you're forced to normalize and unify.

So, I guess it would not be better, maybe worse.

EU is just a consequence.

>>128608419
EEC had no choice. Remember 1989?

>>128609116
The "unite Europe to stop future wars" meme was always present in the project so it was set to become political from the very beginning.

>>128609366
Yes. They should have formed their own eastern EEC instead of forcing us to subsidise them forever because they are clearly not on par with our economies. THAT would have been the sane thing to do.

>>128608237
EU was always about creating a single Euro country state. Read about Kalergi.

>>128609448
Not sure.
It began with steel agreement, a purely economic agreement.
The "no more war" motto is purely a leftist bullshit you can hear in classrooms.

>>128609448
Well I guess but didn't the fact that Europe aligned into two blocs post-WWII, one Soviet and one American, along with the introduction of defense organizations to defend those blocs (Warsaw Pact and NATO) have more to do with stopping wars than anything else?

>>128609833
>The "no more war" motto is purely a leftist bullshit you can hear in classrooms.
I actually agree with that. But I can hear this argument a lot coming from people shilling for federationism a lot so it has some effect on reality even if it's bullshit nobody believes in.

>>128609761
T.People with no clue about economy and what the EU is in the first place.

It was never about the money, its all about influence and control. If we dont hold it some one else will.

When will you idiots learn that money is worthless. means nothing in the world of nations.

>>128609761
Why not, could have been a solution.
Nevertheless, EU wanted -for sure- avoid Russian influence on eastern Europe.
Your suggestion is quite questioning.

>>128609908
Yeah NATO clearly played a greater role in reality.
Also, nukes.
But the official version is that if we don't maintain the EU then the europeans will kill each other again because reasons.

the world was a better place when european countries fought all the time. Iron sharpens iron, Explains why the world is so cucked now.

The EU was always designed to destroy Europe.
Doesn't matter if for "norms" or "economic gains", kill that Behemot, and every individual who worked, or profited from it.

>>128608568
Bit of information you might miss out is that we actually became worse off in the common market and had to sell off our public assets instead.

>>128608237
The EU was doomed from the start due to people like Kalergi setting the foundation. He was an Austrian/Japanese mongrel (((Pan-Europeanist))), who wished for the ethnic erasure of every nation on the continent.

>The man of the future will be of mixed race. Today's races and classes will gradually disappear owing to the vanishing of space, time, and prejudice. The Eurasian-Negroid race of the future, similar in its appearance to the Ancient Egyptians, will replace the diversity of peoples with a diversity of individuals.

It was you uneducated fuck.

It's been a market union until like 9 years ago, when Germany forced enough eastern European satellites to join that it could outvote France and a revision of the Rome treaty and the Lisbon treaty made it a political union Germany could exploit for its imperial aims.

This is common fucking knowledge and available on fucking wikipedia, if you are THAT uneducated on European politics leave /Pol/ and continue not voting in European elections because "it doesn't matter".

This goes for all you retards.

>>128609908
Why US entered WWII against Nazi Germany?
Not to save the "poor" Europeans cousins.
Hitler was already done when US decided to join.
They wanted to prevent communism to expand to Western Europe. Such expansion was very probable. It's not heart driven, it's simply a matter of business.
After Bretton Woods and Marshall plan, indeed, required EU countries to join in an supra organization.

>>128608419
>>128609761
You are a colossal retard, France and the rest didn't want eastern Europe in, Germany forced them in. Then when the question came to Bulgaria and Romania, Germany had enough clout through the eastern countries to literally force them through a veto.

Again, common fucking knowledge. You're even more of a retard because you don't know what your own country did in your own lifetime.

bulgaria bringing some heat

>>128608237
Revert the EU back to what it was during the 70s

>>128610931
>monetary union without fiscal union
>good economics

here is the goat american economist (milton friedman) writing in fucking 97 that the EU is doomed. 20 years later he is right

>>128611594
oops heres the article

https://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/the-euro--monetary-unity-to-political-disunity

>>128611381
Yeh no shit I'm tired of /Pol/ talking about shit without even reading a goddamn Wikipedia article before they start pretending they're article. And I'm fucking revolted by all the Germans blame others for shit THEY DID. In the last fucking decade no fucking less. Shit that is documented.

>>128608237
It WAS made purely for economic gain.

>>128611594
No one is saying it was good or bad, it was unfiltered shit like 10 Years in, but people here are simply wrong and haven't bothered to inform themselves and that's what I'm addressing.

>>128611824
and how is that working out for greece spain poortugal. basically everyone except germany gets buttfucked

>>128611953
Again, not what he is talking about.

>>128611665
The problem was the Russian influence after Soviet countries collapse.
It was hard choice. You can't blame Germany only, but people of Poland/Romania/Bulgaria too, they were all starving to join EU.
It was a clear casus belli within EU and with Russia.

>>128612068
if it was made for economic gain then whoever made it has 0 idea how economics works

>>128611953
:thinking:

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>>128608237

They have put forth this idea last year about reducing the EU to just the single market. Though I doubt they would actually do that.

>>128612311
and even then thats redundant and beaurocratic because the WTO already oversees trade in europe and that is all that is needed

>>128611953
Spain is poorer than 1999 when we got euro..believe me or not but it is true.

i am unemployed and for a fucking job there are 3000000 people

>>128611953
> Spain
Shit country. Suddenly, get low interest rates. Destroyed its coastline in touristic/building projects. Total failure

> Greece
Cheated to come in. No taxes. Shit country.

> Portugal
Shit country with high emigration rates since decades. Aging population. No industry.

Blame Germany?

>>128612463
Yup, the euro is way too strong relative to your economy (because the germans behind it) and so it stifles investment and employment.

literally ruined the country for an entire generation its sad

>>128612187
>people of Poland/Romania/Bulgaria too, they were all starving to join EU.

We were scammed into it. We were desperately not ready.

Our politicians were promised high paid EU jobs and the media joined in telling us it was about becoming rich.

We were not ready, France and the west knew it. Read up on our accession and some stats, our economies collapsed and were replaced by German businesses who didn't pay taxes, so Germany got a trade surplus and we have to rely on gibs to compensate.

>>128612195
>if it was made for

So you don't know what it was made for and you're arguing people who are saying what it was made for?

>>128612604
You are right, those countries have a weak economy.

Guess what happens when you have a weak economy? Your currency depreciates.

Now your currency is weaker. This makes investment in your country cheaper (more attractive) and makes it easier to hire people. This helps the economy pick up again. Its called flexible exchange rates.

But guess what? Spain doesnt have its own currency. So they are stuck with an overpriced dollar so no one wants to invest or hire people and there is no natural way out of the situation.

its economics 101. every american economist predicted this would happen and that it would destroy entire countries economies.

https://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/the-euro--monetary-unity-to-political-disunity

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Here is another page on that idea.

>>128611215
You must be utterly stupid if you believe I share the same opinion with the German government.
We're not like you Eastern Bloc commies. We have our own opinions.

>>128612676
>Our politicians
Enough said, for both of us.

Not only France, but UK, Italy and other were very cold about East Europe commies to join.
Excepted East Germany, a lot were very cold. Debates were very hot on that matter.

Once you were in, indeed, some take benefits of the situation: French with Polish lands/fields, Romanian heavy industries, Germany with Czech/Slovakian industries...

>>128612463
>>128612653
I wish more people would realize this.

The Euro is too weak for the north, too strong for the south.

>>128613184
>We have our own opinions.

So, how come Merkel might govern your country for the 3rd time? Your opinion is to suicide?

Either way, I don't share MY governments opinion to join either. But you bought them out, so I had no choice. I don't blame you for it, I blame myself for not shooting my government. But you blaming the East is a joke. Especially when there was basically a veto on us and Romania and you forced us through.

>>128612924

It's not so easy.

Without Euro, these countries would already be on fire.

We had a debate in France about pro/cons of Euro. Some politicians claimed it would be better with French franc back, with the same arguments you are.

I remember the 80s with shit French franc. It was hell.

The problem is not the currency ; it's the way you use it. At this point, we suck.

>>128613208
The only ones who ended up benefitting were Germany and French socialists who were given free reign to borrow money to keep a fake communist utopia going and continue their wonderful champagne socialist lives.

>>128613296
>The Euro is too weak for the north, too strong for the south.

It was and is geared only for Germany and the Netherlands.

>>128613599
>I remember the 80s with shit French franc. It was hell.
>The problem is not the currency ; it's the way you use it. At this point, we suck.

Nobody doubts reverting currency would be hell, but the euro is stagnation forever. Your own currency drops you to hell, but gives you a ladder to climb on.

>>128613665
The Netherlands got screwed over when exchanging the gulden for the Euro, when they basically got cut 10% from the worth of the gulden.

Even now, the Euro is somewhat too weak to properly represent the Dutch economy.

However, if does not fuck the Netherlands as much as Spain.

>>128608237
What is economic gain?

Open borders, free flow of workers that will outcompete the native workers and people that are willing to take up loans to feed the banks?

Basically screwing most people over but looking better on paper?

>>128613840
>The Netherlands got screwed over when exchanging the gulden for the Euro, when they basically got cut 10% from the worth of the gulden.
>Even now, the Euro is somewhat too weak to properly represent the Dutch economy.

Most people don't actually realise what happened with the Netherlands. The currency is perfectly positioned to allow Dutch businesses to take over Eastern Europe. A huge, disproportionate amount of our food market is controlled by the Dutch. Dutch businesses, being significantly less than German ones rake in amazing profits from our countries.

Of course the citizen doesn't see it, also because a lot of it sinks back into the corporations, but a lot of Dutch businesses were able to escape the socialist hellhole of stagnation and ride the growth of shitty economies, largely thanks to the euro.

>>128613808
>but gives you a ladder to climb on

Not in our current short-term driven political system. Worst, in a pseudo Latin country...

>>128608237
>Would the EU have fared better if it was made purely for economic gain?
The EU would be better if it were modeled after the US. They're both unions, the EU is just a much more shitty more bureaucratic version.
You would need to have some European countries actually unionize and slowly integrate.
I think it's fairly obvious, at this point, that you cannot force cultural mergers.

>>128608237
not really, it would end the same way
how hard it is for people to grasp that an economic organization practically dictates your country's everything anyway, look at opec

It would have worked if it were actually a union of European nations, instead of being a method via which rich countries use poor countries as leverage and in which the bureaucrats weren't against the people.

>>128614552
>You would need to have some European countries actually unionize and slowly integrate

No thanks, I don't want Hans forcing Ahmed and the gang on me.

>>128608237
It WAS made purely for economic gain
(((their)))) economic gain

>>128614295
Well that's the thing. The Euro helped multinationals, at the cost of small to medium sized businesses.

The CEO and (((shareholders))) takes the profit, while Dutch small businesses suffer as they do in Bulgaria.

The biggest mistake was to accept slavshits.

>>128614552
Jesus Christ, can we please ban burgers from accessing EU-related thread?
They barely know the history of their Union, shouldn't be able to comment on others.

>>128614970
If I may ask Hungabro, I know many of your people and your government are regularly telling the EU to fuck off. I'm assuming you're aware that any substantial reform of the EU is impossible.
Given that, why don't you guys just vote to leave the EU?

>>128614970
Probably for the best.
Europe seems to be magnitudes more corrupt that the US and that's hard for me to comprehend.

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>>128608237
>Would the EU have fared better if it was made purely for economic gain?

>if it was made purely for economic gain?

>if

>>128615784
>They barely know the history of their Union, shouldn't be able to comment on others.
I know more about my country than you.
The Unionizing of America was really slow and not without massive issues, including a Civil War and Texas threatening to succeed everytime a democrat is in office.

>post yfw 100 years after the end of WW1 germany has conquered europe

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>>128608237
Nah,EU works just fine,stop trying to ruin everything brits

>>128615355
Lot of dutch smes also benefit, but the problem is the wealth inequality. My friend had a chicken processing factory where like 20 people lost their jobs over about 3 Dutch employees in a Dutch firm. The difference went to the owner.

The biggest EU redpill is that the vast majority of its problems outside of migration and security are the wealth inequality.

>>128615784
>Jesus Christ, can we please ban burgers from accessing EU-related thread?
>They barely know the history of their Union, shouldn't be able to comment on others.

Are you fucking joking? He seems to know twice as much as you and the other Germans here.

Our businesses were destroyed and taken over. What's the point of losing the little compensation we get now? Anyone with an ounce of common sense realises we are better off hacking it and trying to turn it around. That's what we did with our 10% tax, which may have fucked us but has now started making your businesses consider paying their tax here.

>>128615840
>Europe seems to be magnitudes more corrupt that the US

Honestly, not really. It's just not a democracy.

>>128610421
Wars cause dysgenics. A major war coupled with our current medical know-how and anti-Darwinist principles would fuck up the gene pool even worse than a hundred million more nigerians.

>>128617294
Cuck

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>>128608237

>>128617005
>Honestly, not really. It's just not a democracy.
The United States isn't a democracy, either. It's a republic. I was more talking to the entire culture within the EU, such as blatant disregard for free speech, success in limiting the ability to protect yourself from threats, politicians being elected without consent of the governed in the EU, etc.
I'm not saying the US isn't corrupt, I'm just suggesting that the optics of the EU is worse.
I.E. CNN will say that Trump is breaking the law, but can't stop people from disagreeing with them or posting videos of their scandals.
In the EU, you can get arrested for that descent based on the manipulation of optics.

>>128616625
How did they lose their jobs? I don't get the sentence.

>>128615677
The biggest mistake was to allow the Germans to reunite. We should have divided them further.

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>>128608237
The EU was made for pure purpose of economic gain to favor corrupt big companies.

>>128618383
>We

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>>128615677
COOUUSIINNN