People employed in coal industry: 51,000 People employed in

How much energy does coal produce and how much solar?

>>128226712
>leaving the agreement doesn't hinder solar in any way
>staying in the agreement hinders coal

Woah

>>128227063
Coal is much higher

>>128227145
How does it hinder coal?

Hint: It doesn't. Coal is already dying. And there's no more reason to save it than there was to save horse breeders and caretakers when the automobile was invented.

OP, what part of the Paris Agreement do you think was most important? I don't really know much about it -- can you tell me how it worked?

>>128226712
OGGUBY DEMODATS

>>128227063

https://flowcharts.llnl.gov/content/assets/images/energy/us/Energy_US_2016.png

>>128226712
It's about pissing off globalists.

>>128226712

Meanwhile, normal people momentarily feel slightly less ashamed about all the times they, too, have butt-dialed, and otherwise go about their business.

>>128227334
If we tried to stick to our plans to reduce carbon emissions by 20%+ it would absolutely hinder coal. There's no enforcement of it, but it would cause bad headlines

>>128226712

how efficient is solar power, faggot

>solar roof

>takes 30 years to break even with a shingled roof

WOW

>>128227334
65% of the US's energy comes from fossil fuels, predominantly coal. The US has coal reserves to last it well over 300 years even as consumption increases over time.

>>128227365
We agreed to a limit on carbon emissions by a certain date worldwide to help curb climate change.

Not only is this good for the environment but it spurs huge growth in alternative energy sectors, allowing jobs and cheaper energy.

>>128226712
so the president can regulate businesses in international agreements that are not passed by any other branch of government?

>>128227604
>>128227529
Maybe you haven't heard but most of America's coal plants are severely outdated and in need of remodeling, and most of them don't bother. It's cheaper for them to convert to and to operate with natural gas.

Look it up, no joke.

>>128226712
I wonder of Joe and Mika publicly apologized and bent the knee to that tubby fuck for roasting him about Trump supporters being racists.

>>128227494
30x output with one fifth of the laborforce
wew thanks for the gibsmedats government

>>128226712
The solar industry required massive government subsidies to get off the ground.

>>128227646
If alternative energy is so great, then it shouldn't need government intervention in order to grow

>>128227063
>unironically believes in coal power
Sad!

the electrical bill of a business is higher than the one you get at home every month. it's actually incredibly huge depending on the size of the business. those costs go up and the business will relocate, stop hiring, or pass them on to the consumer. the consumer may choose to buy a similar product made overseas in a country that isn't penalized like the US would be.

it's not entirely about jobs in those two industries. why would you think that?

>>128226712
coal is fucking stupid
Anyone can swing a pickaxe for 70k in some mountain holes. These people are dumb and can't be retrained. just let them die out and let the new energy technologies to fill the market.

>>128226712
Cost of Energy matters Shill.

>>128227922
What was wrong with spending tax dollars on a means to reduce our dependence on foreign oil, which they've already admitted is a national security concern?

>>128227963
How do you figure that? We've invested so little time developing the technology that there's plenty of room for it to improve, like anything else.

>>128227764
Sweet, I'm still not hearing any good reasons to be in the accord

>>128228072
>reduce our dependence on foreign oil
except our money went to countries that paid nothing to until 2030 to continue going over the limit

>>128227764
Irrelevant to my point, but sure. Coal power has been around for a long time, there are better fuel sources out there, I couldn't possibly argue that

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>>128227922
Just like the coal industry gets?

Really makes you

>>128228069
You're right, which is why coal plants are switching to propane and natural gas.

>>128227494
couldn't be bothered to upload the image faggot?

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>>128227840
Yep.

Should have posted the picture directly.

This ridiculous green religion these fucking druids preach. What a fucking joke.

Your grandkids will be praying at the Mosque, provided you don't get run over by a truck, but let's all worry about a 0.01% increase in CO2 over the next century. Completely retarded.

>>128227646
Neat. So what was the limit for each country? I assume all countries were the same? Or did the heaviest polluters like China agree to lower theirs by more? Who's paying for it, by the way? I guess that's the heaviest polluters too? That'd make sense as the fair way that would be in our interest.

How was this enforced, by the way?

>>128227646
what alternative energy would you consider "cheap"?

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>>128226712
>a jew against coal-burning

WHAT TIMELINE IS THIS?!

>>128226712
The shariablue shills are spamming up heavy tonight. Kys faggot

>>128228289
You're asking these questions as if there's a big gotcha here that I'm going to reveal and look stupid. Except there isn't. Anyone can go read the details, it's not a secret.

>>128228359
Natural gas. Which is why coal plants are converting to it, because nobody wants to deal with coal ash and parking areas for hundreds of train cars of coal.

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>>128228361
Here have a (You) leafbro, thanks for the kek

>>128228072
Because if alternative energy is so great the private sector can pay for it to be brought up to standard with other forms of energy.

That's the perfect place to let the people raise the money for it and watch it fail because the effiency of solar energy alone is only something like 18% effective as opposed to coal.

>>128228234
>rejected energy
is that the vars portion of the complex power or something else?

>>128228072
Solar panels have been around since the 50s and we've been researching solar power for as long as we have nuclear. Let's dump our research money into something we know works.

shitty government subsidized jobs that barely accomplish anything vs private sector jobs that generate a ton of productivity. solar power jobs are fdr-tier counterproductive bullshit. no point in wasting resources and labor until we figure out how to utilize and harness power from solar as effectively as we can with coal.

>>128226712
That's because your retarded government destroyed the coal industry.

The solar power industry is pathetically inefficient and it's a waste of resources.

How many of those 260,000 jobs are assholes calling me asking if I want to switch to solar, manning displays in Home Depot asking me if I want to switch to solar, or stuffing evelopes and sending me junk mail asking me if I want to switch to solar?

>>128228569
It's thermodynamics - basically you don't get efficient conversion of energy to the end use. Most is wasted as heat.

>>128228546
>if space travel is so great then why does the government need to fund it?

I can make a hundred irrelevant arguments of this nature. Government funding is not a boogie man. It's called progress.

>>128228660
That shows how little you know. Solar technology has improved leaps and bounds since the earliest forms.

>>128228772
Im not contesting the fact that solar has improve, and that there is room for it to improve still, however compared to nuclear (similar length of RND) it has proved to be a far inferior power source.

>>128226712
could this be considered a clever argumentum ad populum?

>>128228735
Ahh well I know energy is lost as heat as it travels but I wasn't sure if it meant the imaginary portion of the triangle since that is also useless.

>>128228694
for once I agree with a canadian

I find it amazing that nobody really knows what's in the terms of the Paris accord yet they're all chimping out about it.

Besides it doesn't even fucking matter if burgerland manages to cut their carbon emissions beyond the targeted amount, China and india don't give a flying fuck about the accord and they'll just continue to spew carbon (or shit in the case of the Indians) like it's going out of style

>>128226712
>people employed by mechanical trench digging industry: 6,000,000
>people employed by spoon trench digging industry: 6 gorrillion (10^6000000)

>>128228857
I'm not arguing against nuclear power, but it has obvious problems.

>>128228569
You're looking at the net power undrawn. We can't even build multi-terawatt capacitors for consistent use yet, so the vast majority of electricity "produced" is as useless as arbitrarily turning on additional coal furnaces during a lull

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>>128228493
Yeah, the details are that the heaviest polluters like China and India have standards that are a pittance of those imposed on the US and Wester countries. And Western countries are the ones to foot the bill for all the shitpoor African countries. And there's zero way to enforce it. So all it is is moving money out of Western (read: WHITE) countries into poor brown countries, with NGOs taking their cut of course.

It's not about the environment. It's about wealth redistribution and third worldism while allowing the Jews and academics to skim off the top.

If you actually want to stop global warming, petition for ceasing all aid to Africa and constructing tariffs against China. Overpopulation and artificial industrialization are far bigger contributors than Joe-Bob's pick-up truck.

>>128227764
i used to go to the most expensive power plant they just built in the US. its not like coal is dying.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kemper_Project if anyones interested.

>>128228694
>literally free energy from the sun
>can power thousands of homes with little maintenance
>waste of resources

They call you leafs for a reason.

>>128227334
The majority of electricity produced in the US is from coal fired power plants

>>128228958
Maybe if we just put a few more government sheckles into it we would have those problems sorted out by now
dumb nigger

>>128229064
Outdated coal plants that are slowly being converted to natural gas, yes.

>>128226712
The Paris agreement was literally just that, an agreement. Companies voluntarily abided by it, and they still are abiding by it despite the announcement.

What Trump did was 4D as fuck, look at all the attention climate change and air pollution are getting now. He enraged the leftcucks and now they won't stop until third world hellholes stop polluting the white man's earth.

I hope you climate change deniers are actually right. If climate change ends up being wrong, we've lost some money. If climate change is real, we'll lose a lot more than that.

Answer me this: do any of you climate change deniers ever momentarily consider the possibility that you're wrong? Because that scenario is not a pleasant one. You think the Syrian refugees are bad? You ain't seen shit yet.

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>>128229038
>literally free energy from the sun
Well, no.

>People will continue to rely on and defend a rapidly depleting and non-renewable resource that harms the enviorment because "tradition"
Humanity was a mistake

>>128229091
Maybe we would. And we should remove tax exempt status from churches to pay for it.

>>128229038
t. guy who has never owned a solar panel(s)

>>128228893
Actually, if you're talking about reactive power, it's a little different. If your load isn't balanced, you can lead or lag. The main problem with that is that your generators have to generate more power to deliver real power to the grid. It makes any inefficiencies even worse.

>>128229038
huh?

>>128226712
What was Obama's presidency about?

Completely destroy Lebanon, Libya, Iraq & Syria, while negotiating with terrorist like Iran & giving them half a Billion under your nose.

While you eat up Hollywood propaganda & Love when Lady Gaga gets half naked on half time?

Who cares what goes on across the world?

It'll never come back to haunt you.

>>128229174
Literally yes.

"Free energy" is obviously misleading since it relies on fusion in the sun, but that's not going to run out in our lifetimes. So for all intents and purposes, it's free.

>>128229172
>do any of you climate change deniers ever momentarily consider the possibility that you're wrong?

Constantly, which is why we don't need to do things like set up surface temp probes in asphalt heatsinks and fabricate north sea thermal data which doesn't exist

>>128226712
I think the bigger issue is not switching to nuclear.

it kills two birds

>1: reduces greenhouse emissions
>2: triggers enviromentalists.

>>128227646

Except China doesn't have to do shit.

So the single biggest polluter - the one with pollution so bad you can't go outside without a mask - doesn't do anything.

Shitlibs say they care about the environment, but the truth is they couldn't give a shit. They just want to virtue signal.

If you care about the environment, why are you pushing for expensive environmental regulations in rich countries without any rules on what happens in poor shitholes like China?

Obvious result: all our manufacturing has moved there, to a place with no fucking rules whatsoever on dumping pollution into the air. So asshole liberals pat themselves on the back for how great they are, and how much they care, when really all they did was export all our pollution for a bunch of poor brown people to deal with. Hint: your feels don't matter, the results of your policies do.

If you cared about pollution, you'd put tariffs on Chinese imports until the goods had to be made in a country with actual environmental laws.

But you don't give a shit. You just want to suck globalist dick, watch old Captain Planet reruns, and play around on your iPhone made by slaves in a country with no environmental laws at all.

>>128229195
Lets stop paying niggers to shoot each other and do drugs instead

>>128227334

Coal isn't "dying" because coal suddenly stopped producing energy. It's dying because it's becoming politically incorrect to use as energy. Which is a stupid reason to cut ourselves off cheaper electricity.

https://youtu.be/Uvt0Ytvv4XY

>>128229369
Three birds actually since it also kills FAR fewer birds than solar and wind.

>hillary has a let them eat cake attitude towards an entire industry of laborers

>butthurt and defeated liberal finds the amount of workers on wikipedia "see, its not even that big!"

you don't even understand what is was about

>>128226712
trump sold the country out to personally enrich himself

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>>128229335
>So for all intents and purposes, it's free.

Except construction, materials, non-renewable solar elements, maintainance, wear and operation, amirite?

A coal plant doesn't strictly need rare earth metals, all solar tech currently does, in forms that are more expensive to recycle than to fabricate from raw ores

>>128227982
he literally just asked a question
you are the one who's sad

>>128229038

>tesla solar roof

>costs $$$$$$$$$

>breaks even with shingled roof in 30 years

E F F I C I E N T

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>>128227334
>t. someone who knows nothing about American Energy Needs

SHILL THREAD

RAISE ACT: LIMITS IMMIGRATION TO THE US FROM 1,000,000 to 500k!
>>128214552
>>128214552
>>128214552

GET THE FUCK IN HERE FAGS!

>>128229410
>almost word-for-word rhetoric that he probably got from the GOP website

CHY-NA

>>128229490
That's another stupid political meme. We're still pouring millions of tons of coal into fire and burning it on a daily basis. You can't build a power plant over night. You can't kill coal jobs overnight. You literally can't damage a power industry from peoples' feelings.

What's killing it is that coal isn't good. Natural gas is better. It's cheaper. It's cleaner. Smaller plants. Less coming in, less going out. A win-win for the power industry.

They literally killed coal themselves.

>>128226712
>rob "hollywood pedophile" reiner

>>128228234

And lets not forgot that those green energy companies are subsidized and paid for by the government. Meaning they're not actually good at what they do, since they can't produce a profit on their own. They're literal wastes of resources.

>>128228361
KEKED

>>128229490
>Which is a stupid reason to cut ourselves off cheaper electricity.

Which the Chinese will not imitate, who will still buy coal, which will still need to be mined etcetcetcetcetcetcetcetcetc

>>128226712
Rob Reiner is alive???! I thought he got jaw cancer and died like two years ago.

>>128226712
Shut up, Meathead.

>>128229138
Which ones? Hertzeg boilers are offline more than online. They just don't hold up.

>>128229701
>What's killing it is that coal isn't good.

No, it's the tax tarriffs and CO2 emissions fines, anon. Take those away and the industry is ready to boom.

>>128226712
How much energy is produced by coal VS solar. When do the krauts switch over....fag.

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>>128227646
>alternative energy
>cheap

>>128229701
>Refutes none of it.

>>128229501
We get the Social Justice News Hour in Canada and I have no idea why anybody gives a shit about these two panelists for them to deserve their own segment.

Your time writing high school-tier opinion pieces doesn't qualify you to talk about policy any more than a kid delivering the paper it's printed in.

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>>128229701

>Oh shit, I don't know what the fuck to say to this because Stephen Colbert didn't tell me

China is the single biggest emitter of CO2. And it's because we sent all our factories there. How the fuck are you going to solve global warming if you exempt them from the agreement?

Look at the satellite photos, for Christ's sake. They're covered in smog. The entire fucking country.

Globalist morons let all our manufacturing get shipped over there, and now a bunch of cheap crap gets made with no rules on pollution. But hey, pat yourself on the back. You made the rules really tough back home. You "cared," and that's what counts.

>>128226712
>not counting the hundreds of thousands of jobs associated with hauling, processing, and exporting coal
You're a fucking dumbass. Plus as someone who's worked at a "green" company before I can tell you that most of them just suck grant money before dying

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>>128226712
>mentally ill fatass trying to act like he has any moral high ground

>>128230178
kek. That smog (black carbon and OC aerosol) actually cools the earth by about 2/10ths of a degree actually by blocking out sunlight.

>>128228660
>Let's dump our research money into something we know works

What, nuclear?

>>128228772
You're trying to throw people in with the "it's not working now, so it never will camp" when I'm simply saying that the production at which is being produced RIGHT NOW is far less efficient than other forms.

Why would we as a tax payer be forced to pay for a form of energy that is inefficient? Just think of it as a basic form of supply and demand. Until the amount of energy produced is < or = to the amount of energy and efficiency produced by coal/natural gas.

But yes, nuclear power should have been better utilized and worked on in the 80's. That was one thing that Reagan flubbed on.

>>128226712
Rob Reiner is a pimple

>>128230369
liquified coal is the future

>>128230342
It also causes cancer.

>>128228060
t. scrawny cuck who can't swing a pickaxe

>>128228772
It will never work simply because it's not energy dense. Maintenance costs on miles of panels will always be a major expense. Previously ignored tech like coal liquification and carbon capture is much more practical in terms of clean energy.

>>128226712
Answer this:Does a solar panel in Uganda produce more power than a solar panel in the US?

>>128226712
"employed by the solar industry"
They count people who do materials research in university, it's completely biased.

>>128230516
Nigga, it's the current year. Literally everything causes cancer now.

>>128229335
>the nuclear energy relies on fission in the atoms, for all intensives purposes its free.
>the coal energy relies on chemical energy already created so for all intensive purposes, its free
Not only are solar panels inefficent, but for them to break even, they have to operate over many years. And guess what, all solar panels degrade substantially within 10 years to the point that they can loose up to half of their efficiency if not fail entirely. Basically, we pump more energy into creating solar panels than the generate just so yuppies like you can feel good about themselves.
That being said, they are great for powering small, remote, low power systems, not entire fucking societies

>>128228234
There should be 5x more nuclear power.

This country is wasting a huge opportunity

Here's a better question: why does Trump or anyone else think ancient "tech" like coal and oil will make the US relevant/competitive/innovative?

Other countries are going to find better, new sources of energy and the US will sit on the bench.

>>128226712
like 60% of the solar industry is subsidized because MUH GLOBAL WARMING

>>128227646
>Oy vey, just give up coal and squat in mud huts for the polar bears

No thanks, Shlomo. If you really cared about the environment you'd stop all immigration because shitskins emit far more carbon here than back home while simultaneously working to sterilize Africa.

>>128228060
behold the tolerant left

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>>128226712
Then why does solar need so much help?

The capitalist argument is literally that when it becomes economically viable it will take over.

>>128231070
Modern LWRs and salt reactors are way more efficient, inherently safer, and leave behind hardly any waste. The idiots always make comparisons to Soviet crap or reactors that were designed 50 years ago. Unfortunately new nuclear research was stopped a couple of decades ago and replaced with this unicorn bullshit.

Mix in Thorium and a couple of breeder reactors, and you've got 10,000 years of power for the country. Shit - you could even build a couple of extra reactors to pull CO2 out of the atmosphere for the granola heads.

>>128231892
>hardly any wast
HAHAHAHAHAHA!
I like the way you try to hide its biggest problem by avoiding hard numbers and solutions.

>>128230843
>Not only are solar panels inefficent
the technology is constantly improving, so is efficiency.
at this point they are efficient enough to be financially viable
>but for them to break even, they have to operate over many years
just as any other power generation facility, retard.
a typical NPP gets even and starts making revenue 10-15-20 years after commissioning.
>all solar panels degrade substantially within 10 years to the point that they can loose up to half of their efficiency if not fail entirely.
kek, thats complete bullshit.
they could lose up to 20% of their overall efficiency in 20 years, you mong.
>>128231404
sweetie, like, uhm, 100 percent of coal and all other forms of generation was subsidised and still is in some cases.

ya dumb hamburger twats

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>>128230828
>breathing it is better
I hate smug hippies to but jesus

>>128232150
So buy your solar panels and daisychain some batteries together to store the energy and report back on how well you're doing. Be the example everyone can rely on and look to when they say solar is inefficient. Be completely self sufficient energy wise.

>>128232126
Really dipshit? They had that solved - dig a hole in Nevada and dump it there. Oh, yeah - can't do that can we - the poor Earth. Even though it's already packed to the gills with Uranium and other radioactive shit.

>>128226712
Who needs a planet when you can have a job anyways? Amiright ameribros hahah those stupid europoors

>>128230342

>OC aerosol
>what the fuck
>gooble
>pepper spray

that can't be a good thing

>black carbon

you can serve soot on a golden pedestal, but it's still soot.

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>>128229558
>the peons having the exact attitude and thought processes as their fuhrer

IMAGINE MUH SHOOCK

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>>128232434
a tank of propane has more energy than a battery the size of a car

batteries are fucking weak energy storage

>>128227963

Good, then I suppose you advocate the removal of government subsidies on the petroleum industry.

>>128232276
Do you have any idea what light does to you?
Light AND air?

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>>128232840
t. Hank

>>128227572
elon musk said he made a cheaper one

>>128232150
100% certian you have never worked with or touched a solar panel in your life idiot.
Not only that, but when a solar cell goes, you need to replace the entire panel because the difference in electrical stress will cause a chain reaction destroying, or at least shortening the life of the remaining cells. Rarely does a component failure require the complete reconstruction of a power plant.

Not only that, but have fun trying to transmit power from solar farms in the southwest where they are semi-viable to the power hungry north east.
You should kill yourself

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>>128232955
No shit sherlock.

>>128229571
>blompfh did it for teh shekels goy!

So Trump basically decided to get one billion of his fortune evaporated, his entire family constantly ridiculed by both libshits and stormfag autists and under the constant threat of retards who want nothing more than to sperg out and kill them because 'muh subjective moral outrage', and get every motherfucker in the main shill media to shittalk him 24/7.

All that for a few extra shekels.

Inb4

>you don't understand goy, it's all aboot da shekels!

>>128233044
all of my knowledge of fuels came out of a shitpost for a king of the hill group on steam i took way too far. i have pursued for eighteen months the information i need to demonstrate that propane is superior to gasoline.

>>128232434
uh, okay?
by the time i can afford a property of my own you can be sure i'd be looking at EG solutions for my home

>>128232840
thanks, captain obvious.
dont see how that's any relevant unless you think a battery bank is essential to solar generation

>>128233215
when solar and batteries stop being shit, I'll gladly invest and deck out my house. For now, it's still the same garbage as 5 years ago, which is pathetic in most industries, let alone a developing one.

>>128228060
t. 100 pound cuck whose only experience in mining coal was on runescape

>>128227063
>>128227294
so if we want more electricity and at cheaper rates, why would we want to hire 100x the people per what-hour to produce it?

>>128233570
what's solar gonna do the other half of the day, dumbass?

>>128232840
I can't view the picture because MiMi is fucking retarded but I believe it. I'm just pointing out the fact that people always want to tell other people what to do but offer ZERO constructive ways to go about doing it.

>>128233326
100% certain you've been lobotomized at mcdonalds.
every manufacturer nowadays offers a 20 year warranty on their panels
>Not only that, but have fun trying to transmit power from solar farms in the southwest where they are semi-viable to the power hungry north east.
>durrr i have no idea how a modern power distribution network works gais
top kek, consider ODing on slurpees you idiot
>>128233549
you should write a paper on your discoveries, i am sure the scientific world will be thrilled by your discoveries following your 18 month long research

>>128232592
Who needs a country when you can have rapefugees anyways? Amirite fellow yurofags hahaha those stupid nationalists

>>128233932
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c6/Energy_density.svg/1080px-Energy_density.svg.png

>>128233570
Battery banks are absolutely 1000% critical for any viable solar power system. Otherwise there would be no way to account for surface light flux levels and also night. Also, look at the kW/km^2 ratio of solar to either coal or nuclear. It is not even comparable.

A medium size nuclear plant puts out more energy in 1 day than all the solar plants in the US do in a year.

>>128232592
You won't have a job, culture, or a place to call your own soon enough. All those sand niggers sure putting a strain on your pockets.

But it's okay, the temperature will drop .002 degrees Celsius by the year 2100. Checkmate climate change deniers.

>>128234070
of course i've been writing a fucking paper, but i've been dealing with relatively obscure and complicated thermodynamics, and i won't publish anything until i've tested it thoroughly. i do not take this work lightly, and i will not publish an imperfect work.

>>128227646
Thorium is clean

Thorium is Abundant

I'd let thorium fuck my wife

Hydroelectric is clean

Hydroelectric provide irrigation oppurtunitys for more farmers creating a positive externality.

I find dams sexy

>>128234129
LOL those stats.

Thanks for the link.

>>128233921
the same every non baseload supplying generation plant does during off peak hours, moron

>>128227494
>Rejected energy
What exactly is this and why is there so much?

>>128234070
Since you are so knowledgeable about transmission systems, please explain how you are going to economically make FETs capeable of switching DC power on the order of megawatts with minimal losses to 500kV. Even then you will still have the resistance of the wire to deal with, and when you are switching power loads for entire cities, .001 ohm is substantial. Have fun with your 5 meter diameter copper wire

>>128226712
jews are the enemy of america.

>>128234413
"LPG Propane" is vehicle-quality propane used overseas, roughly half butane. the propane you buy in the US is HD-5, which is only 5% butane. HD-5 propane is a good bit farther to the right.

>>128234523
Carnot cycle of thermodynamics. Heat engines can only be so efficient.

>>128234654
So why are you allowing them to commit universal holocaust for money?

>>128226712

Solar can't survive without massive subsidies.

>>128227646
we already met the requirements up till 2030 so who gives a shit. The problem is we fund other countries for nothing.

>>128234447
other plants produce less at night because there's less demand, but solar plants produce nothing at night because they can't produce anything.

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>>128226712
(((Reiner))) ?

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>>128234070

...so you haven't touched a solar panel in your life kiddo...

>>128235254
There's a GOP senator who said he can't possible defend solar power because he has to tell his constituents that they won't have lights at night time.

Yes, conservatives really are this stupid.

>>128226712
100% of solar industry jobs are subsidized by the tax payers

>>128235710
Why don't you look into what exactly is subsidized by our government (and why) before you turn it into a boogie man buzzword.

>>128234840
produce less?
they get down right switched off unless you have a power sink nearby to dump the excess in.
this is what you idiots dont account for when screeching autistically about muh nucular powur - takes a month to fire up a generator following planned maintenance and refuelling, good luck balancing your grid when you jump on the genius solution of using 100% nuclear for your needs

>>128234648
>you have to transmit over huge distances at all costs, this is how they used to do it in the 50s and 60s
>i am also unironically implying i know anything about the topic

if you're so curious then go read a paper or two on embedded generation and the modern transmission grid.
you're absolutely clueless how this entire thing is supposed to work in the first place.

>>128233549
I can see the headlines now

" Autistic NEET revolutionizes energy industry"

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>>128227145
Dont blow op's brain bro.
>Hes a jew and if his solar cap comes off the reptilian inside starts to die

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>>128227334
80% reduction in ca by 2040
>Do you jdf faggots even read the propaganda you put up?
I get my power from a coal plant (as do many other anons here) what happens when my bill goes up 10-50%?
Can i kidnap you and make you peddle a bike hooked up to my house till you die?
KYS faggot

>>128236064
No, the jews are the ones trying to commit ecological holocaust in the name of money.

You're on the side of the jews.

>>128226712
You export coal you cucktard. It's not one or the other let the free market decide.

>>128230342
>implying blocking sunlight with a cloud that makes people sick is a good thing
Holy fuck you common core faggots are stupid

>>128234406
libs don't like dams because they upset the immediate surrounding environment

>>128234070
spoken like a consumer, you fraud
fuck off

>>128229918
Why are you faggots so hung up on coal? Let the free market decide (Natural Gas will win).

>>128227764
And this justifies 100+trillion in money being funnelled to well connected globalists how?

>>128226712
Cheap power, equals, cheaper manufacturing.
Tell me, how lowering energy costs, WOULDN'T create more jobs.
That's a better question.

>>128236631
It's the most profitable market, something that doesn't require trucks, doesn't require petrol. no petrol no petro dollars.

You can't build a coal pipe.

>>128226712
Steel industry requires coal. so some jobs in coal but it opens up the possibility of the steel industry. Don't know if it will work but that;s how it works.

>>128226712

Why would the solar people be unemployed?

Does the sun stop existing because you don't give money to china and india?

I'm a little confused on your logic?

>>128227063

Solar effectively produces none. All of our Solar and Wind systems are hybrid and rely on fossil fuels.

It's a meme.

If they cared about carbon emissions they would use gas and nuclear. But they don't. They just care about gibs.

>>128226712
solar power = can't be sustained without welfare, does more damage to the environment than it does to help save it

>>128227334

>Coal is dying

Meanwhile, in reality, coal is being used to supplement solar and wind because solar and wind don't work.

Why not both?

>>128227646

>We agreed

No. You agreed to give money to China and India to ENCOURAGE them to stem carbon emissions. Which they were not legally bound to do. You would give money to failing, unprofitable energy sectors like wind and solar of course, to make a few people very rich.

>Spurs huge growth in alternative energy sectors

Nope. The very same people fighting for the Paris Accord are fighting against alternative energy sources to reduce carbon emissions.

>>128236872
Lucky for us, we don't need to transport it all over the place, because it is already here.
Some people, would rather we buy foreign power, rather than use what is in our backyard.
These people, are cucks, or tards.
Or cucktards.
Deadly combination, that it is.

The Paris agreement was non-binding. So we just pulled out of something that meant nothing. If the US were to join a binding agreement, it would need to pass congress. The paris agreement was an attempt to circumvent the constitution. For that reason it should be opposed. Obama tried to do an end around and join something that he didn't have the power to authorize. Why? Because it would never pass.

>>128228942

Part of the point of the Accord was to use the hundreds of billions of dollars to encourage India and China to invest in environmental regulations and alternative sources of energy to help curb their emissions output. Another part was used to build inclusivity programs for transexual quadriplegics.

A lot of people are also ignoring the simple fact that the Paris Accords are completely unbinding, there are no punishments for violations by nations like India or China, and most bizarrely, it doesn't lower emissions. In 14 days of output China can undo 30 years of emissions reductions by the U.S.

It's completely worthless and only serves crony capitalism.

We have the solutions to Climate Change available. No one wants to pursue them

The left doesn't want to pursue them because they want to continue the massive overpopulation and enrichment of the third world, particularly China and India, and because they are scientifically retarded and can't tell the difference between a Nuclear Power Plant and a H-Bomb, and somehow think open borders and transplanting tens of millions of people to mass energy consuming countries will...be good?

The Right because they are bought and sold by the petro and coal industries and don't give a fuck about the environment and don't want to spend on infrastructure development.

Yet again - Something that would have been averted if the Nazis won the war.

>>128229410

Many of the people pushing this agreement are simply Chinese shills. Macron and Trudeau and literally a bought and paid for Chinese shills.

>>128226712
Rob Reiner is a cunt

>>128228942
They want the accord because they benefit from it. The US has to dish out money to less fortunate countries supposedly be invested in energy efficiency. Guess how much is probably actually finding its way into that? Probably none.

>>128237811
This.

>>128237156

Because how does China get it's money then?

That's why it was hilarious when Hillary was talking about Solar in the debates.

>We can put people to work!

Yes. Chinese manufacturers.

>>128237654
>A lot of people are also ignoring the simple fact that the Paris Accords are completely unbinding,

>>128237914
...And this.

>>128237811
Hes a fat cunt

>>128237654
>We have the solutions to Climate Change available. No one wants to pursue them
Incorrect.
Europe has neither cheap gas nor coal and no desert to hide radioactive waste.
Green Energy is the only way to get enough energy without relying on external partners like russia.

>>128226712
It was enough about jobs to win the election. You're just denying reality now faggot. The rust belt didn't turn red by magic.

the coal industry directly and indirectly employs around 1.5 million people

>>128234106
>>128234275
Not denying climate change & loving arab dick goes hand in hand now? I didn't even know that, thanks for telling me!

>>128237848

I mean, it's a self defeating proposition. The fact of the matter is that we have too many fucking people.

The more you bring online, the worse the problem gets.

We don't need ANY Africans, and next to no one in Latin America, or most of Asia (from West to East).

Encouraging them to KEEP REPRODUCING AT MASSIVE RATES just brings more potential energy consumption into the world.

We have many forms of energy we could use to ease off coal and petroleum (for energy uses), not all of them renewable, but able to work as hybrid systems.

Fine. We can develop them. But we also need to pull up the drawbridge and turn off the money tap to the developing world. It's not even about killing them. Simply to stop them reproducing.

If the Accord had an emissions target for the U.S. AND a population target for Bangladesh, then maybe it'd be worth signing.

But until then it's pointless.

Bangladesh is constantly used as an example of why we must reduce emissions. If the sea rises by 2 meters by 2100, tens of million would be left homeless...

MAYBE THEY SHOULDN'T SQUEEZE 100 MILLION FUCKING ILLITERATE SWEAT SHOP WORKERS INTO A COUNTRY BARELY BIG ENOUGH TO HANDLE 10 MILLION.

It's just fucking retarded.

>>128226712
>People employed in solar power industry: 260,000

Wait so is the solar industry going away?

No?

Yeah, didn't think so.

>>128226712
the coal industry is more than just direct jobs. those 51k jobs (and thats current number under the old administrations that made coal almost illegal it will grow significantly) they support a hell of a lot of other jobs related directly and indirectly. A lot of small towns that are dying are reliant on coal for jobs to inject money into their towns. Oh and its a global export too...anything to slow or dent the deficits with other nations is well worth it. The export value might be the best part.

Finally...it cheapens power...which everyone and every company uses...cheaper power means cheaper cost of production...its really a very important thing which is why liberals want to make energy so expensive, it will destroy the economy if they get their way.

>>128238266
the american solar industry isnt competitive without gov bux.
i dont think the fear of trump cutting those supports isnt unreasonable if he is okay with leaving the paris agreement.

Of course climate change is inevitable, nothing that humans can do will change that. The Paris treaty would basically have sent our jobs overseas without really doing much to help the climate, since China and India sign on to these climate treaties but never really obey them since that would slow their economies and put people out of work in their countries. Fossil fuels will be obsolete in a few decades, anyway, with the Fusion breakthroughs they are announcing, so it's all moot... http://sploid.gizmodo.com/lockheed-martins-new-fusion-reactor-might-change-humani-1646578094

>>128238184

We can export you gas and uranium. We have the worlds largest resources. And if we stopped importing Chinks and shitskins, we'd have a population held around 20 million.

Unfortunately for you, Green Energy is a joke.

We've been trying it here for years. Unless you're supplementing it with energy systems that are reliable and work, it's third world tier.

Which you probably could do.

I'm not sure why you would need to give China 100 billion dollars to build your own wind and solar farms and set up a deal with Russian gas providers to supplement them.

You could even use that 100 billion to build the solar or wind farms and work on developing new technologies.

Hell, it wouldn't even be that hard with your current repopulation figures...Except you keep mass importing third worlders into your nation to go from low energy consumers to high energy consumers.

I mean, it seems pretty illogical.

>>128238460

A lot of that funding is state level.

Elon Musk's bankroll is provided by the state government of California and Nevada. He might not be able to expand, but his current operations are still ticking along.

>>128238549
>Green Energy is a joke.
if you are not forced to use them, sure.
but when they are your only way out you will work hard to make them work.

>>128238671
>but his current operations are still ticking along.
ya but probably not much longer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HswSn4GCpU

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>>128238579

>>128238482
Climate change is inevitable but we shouldn't make it horribly worse if we have the ability to do something about it. What jobs will USA be sending over seas? No nation can compete with USA in clean energy technology. China will be honoring their side of the bargain. Their nation is fed up with people dying in the streets from insane pollution. China is improving their clean energy economy rapidly already. They will soon have more nuclear power plants than the rest of the world. If fossil fuel is going to be obsolete, don't you think we should prepare for that? Fusion is a long distant dream. USA backing out of this deal is stepping off the throne of leader of the free world.

>>128226712
Another fat kike that deserves leukemia and to see his kids killed by niggers.

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>>128226712
>we pump so much fucking tax and guilt money into green energy that solar can employ 5X the people for less than half the output.

Jesus fucking christ.

>>128226712
By employed, you meanby people with jobs due to green government subsidies and tax credits?

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>>128240076
>we pump so much fucking tax and guilt money into coal energy so that fossil fuels can employ 5X the people for less than half the output.
>wood is the fuel of the future. Technology for efficient coal power is decades away.
>it's not worth slashing and burning the environment to source inefficient coal energy when we already have wood energy which serves us well.
>coal energy is a meme that will destroy our economy and loose all our jerbs

>>128226712
Coal is needed to melt certain metals. If coal makes a comeback, steel industries in the States will make a comeback. Our dependence on China's steel will come to a grinding halt and we will become our own super power.

>>128226712
solyndra

I like Climate Change my house will be closer to the beach , summers hotter, with more butts in bikinis . More fishing less faggot New Yorkers life will be good .

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>>128233827

>what-hour

please be serious

>>128241403
I think you forgot to make a point in all that mess.

>>128227764

Great that means we can create a lot of new jobs building better more efficient coal plants now that the accords aren't hindering us

Your statement is irrelevant to the argument desu. Americas coal supply is what matters. If the plants are in bad shape and it's an economically better resource to use then you build new plants. Plants with the latest tech to reduce emissions themselves. Clean coal isn't meme it's developing technology to reduce emissions at new coal plants. Under the accords we couldn't do that.

>>128235469
That's a non-sequitur.

>>128228493

>You're asking these questions as if there's a big gotcha here that I'm going to reveal and look stupid. Except there isn't. Anyone can go read the details, it's not a secret.

His questions themselves are the gotcha. You clearly haven't read the agreement since you don't know the answers to those questions. He has which is why he asked them in the first place

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>>128241978
I think you missed the point

http://www.thecro.com/topics/compliance-governance/manifest-subsidy/

>>128243107
>t. coldsteel the hedgehog

>>128227334
see >>128227494
btfo now gtfo

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>>128226712
>coal has less jobs
>president claims that coal regulations are hurting the industry
>you disprove this by showing that the solar power industry is doing better than the coal industry

You're not very smart are you?

>>128226712
it was about cheaper energy

who the fuck can afford solar panels?

>>128243431
>renewables have been subsidized at the same amount that oil/gas have been but in ~1/5th the amount of time

So my argument still stands then.

Why are liberals so obsessed with "covfefe"? It's not even funny

Shills, let me explain this to you. It's not about climate change or source energy use, it's about America being the preeminent power in the world.
The 20th century was the American century. America telling the entire free world what would be and all the free nations standing in formation to say "Thank you Sir. Can I have another?". In any international treaty process America would have claimed first chair at the table and last word over the proceedings and decision making.
The details of America's commitments in the accord vs other nations is so stunningly anti-American it's impossible to believe any Americans negotiated it but rather were largely told what America's role would be. Given the vitriol coming out of Europe for the pull out it's clear that "globalism" is just a catchphrase for the EU attempting to take the preeminent role America once had in the world. The EU political leaders, the Rothschilds and Soros had corrupt Barack Obama wrapped around their little finger and they believed their time of world dominance had finally come.

Thank you President Trump!

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HOW WILL USA SURVIVE NO PARIS ACCORDS!?

GROGALM FLUMPFFFFFFFFFFFFF

YA MUNGLED IT

EXPLAIN

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You know what?

The only actual retards defending COAL ENERGY are Americunts.
Anything posted here absolutely retarded is an Americunt
Flat Earth?
Americunt.
Religion Thread?
Americunt.
Pro-Israel Thread?
Americunt

The fucking uneducated swine think that it's perfectly fine.


When are we going to fucking ban Americunts from this board

Anyone got the megawatt produced by mass, and the death per energy produced graph ?

Best possible way to convert a retarded hippy to the power of the atom

>>128226712
People employed by Arby's > 51000

>>128228234
That's fucking eye opening, the left wing cooks will literally bankrupt us with their religious devotion to solar and wind.

>>128234406

Dams are terrible for the ecological outlook of the terrain. Just look at how much worse Mexico is do to western dams near the Rocky Mountain Range.

Seriously, there is a reason farmers kill beavers. Now scale up the beaver problem to an entire river system that feeds the lands you want to grow crops.

>>128226712
>Both can't be hired at the same time

>trump could have stayed in the accord and just not do fucking anything because it's unbinding
>FUG ZLOMPF FOR BACKING OUT
Explain this shit

>>128227518
define what a globalist is, and accurately define their objectives. i'll wait.

>>128229038
Actually laughed out loud at this post. Good show anon.
>>128229335
He means the absolutely astronomical cost of the photovoltaics you utter mongoloid

>>128251136
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6O6uacXDAHg

>>128227365
not OP, but here's a clue:

$100,000,000 per year, minimum

Once you've found out what that's all about you'll have a very interesting perspective

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>>128226712
>opting out of shitty contract
>not caring about jobs in solar power industry

why the hell do so many of you stupid ameriturds imply this? Saying the paris contract is shit doesn't mean Trump will kill the solar power industry.

Solar: 100 Jobs create eg 10 Energy
Coal: 1 Job creates eg 1 Energy
(I dont remember the exact MW, but saw this on a detailed chart few weeks ago, so only rough estimate ratios, the gap is huge)
Bottomline: Solar creates a massive amount of jobs, but these jobs produce a tremendously lower output than coal/gas/nuclear. It's a high cost/low results inefficient form of energy creation.

how is rob reiner famous

also is he jim morrison?

>>128226712
Remove all subsides from the solar industry asap.

>>128226712
Isn't that because of state interference in the free market, though?
If you're so confident solar is the answer, you should have no worries that it will natually beat coal.

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>>128232507
As long as it's nowhere near a water table or somewhere people live burying it in the ground is the best option. Are they working on a different way to get rid of the shit? Would it be possible to use the waste as a fuel source somehow?

I chuckled at the idea of a radioactive sludge watermill but I guess that's probably the only thing you can use it for.

>>128226712
Jobs that come from this aren't just from electricity generation but down the line as companies have lower energy prices and hence can hire more people.

>>128228178
Not as much as what falls under "Renewable energy". Either way, it doesn't hinder investments in alternative energy at all, the US will still transition to a different energy. But from what we see, it isn't cheap, nor is it as effective currently.

>>128228004
I'm glad someone else pointed this out. It's an interesting perspective for a business person, either small or big.

>>128254893
Forgot the link, scroll down to "Allocation of subsidies in the United States":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_subsidies

>>128228234

Why isn't Military put on this?

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>>128226712
Shut up, Meathead.

>>128226712

You can have both

/thread/

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Well, /pol/,

can you find an excuse for this shitstorm?

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>>128227982
I know right we should all just use horses instead of cars.

>>128228178
... think about how all the coal industry needs is not being taxed to death while the green energy needs the government to literally pay for their shit.

>>128227518
nothing is about pissing off anyone. pissing them off is a bonus for the keks

>>128226712
"clean coal"
followers of the orange ape emperor actually believe this

>>128236421
Since when population control is a bad thing, we just need to put those industries on the right places.

>>128234406
>Hydroelectric is clean
Tell that to the massive droughts it causes thanks to the alteration of the river's course.

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>>128226712
>(((Rob Reiner)))
>excessively fat mega Jew
>shit talking about POTUS

>>128226712
The research in to solar panel tech can still continue, anon

Why solarpowerfags are so afraid of competition?

>>128260126
and yet the numbers stay

People employed in coal industry: 51,000

People employed in solar power industry: 260,000

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>>128260538
As if somehow the green energy field is going to crumple and die in America. Get rekt faggot

>>128247417
it's time we banned leafs from this board, in fact we need to stop supporting their retarded socialist experiment. cannucks are worthless without american dollars.

>>128229689
>leader of the alt-right
Where is that from?

>>128260317
>The research in to solar panel tech
solar power is a meme and will never work. solar energy is so hilariously inefficient and expensive and ironically does more harm to the environment

>>128260538
>People employed in solar power industry
not an industry. it's a scam. we've already reached maximum efficiency with solar power. it's not efficient at all

>>128233671
>For now, it's still the same garbage as 5 years ago,
No it's not, price-wise, unless you mean the simple boolean of "is it worth it economically for someone"

>>128226712
>We aren't in some politically binding agreement at a government level therefore it is impossible to act in the spirrit of the agreement
If renewables are better, and in some cases they are, we will use them. These agreements just pointlessly hold back modern countries (because shit countries will just lie) to cope with some misguided white guilt.

>>128226712
OP your number on coal jobs was 76,000 earlier. If you're going to shitpost and lie at least keep your lies consistent. More energy sources=more jobs for Americans. We have a huge coal reserve and we might as well use it.

What would be a /pol/ approved way to help stop climate change?

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>>128226712

Staying in the Paris accord only has one outcome. Coal gets shit on, globalists and multinational corporations make a bunch of money in other countries, and everything else stays the same. It's the same reason the aforementioned always advocates for higher taxes on businesses in the US (or whatever country). The little man gets fucked in the ass, while the rich endure the ride because they can. There's a reason big oil types and the lot were upset with Trump leaving this week, followed by the media spouting ignorantly (or knowingly but with bad intentions) "See! Even these people say Trump was wrong!" as if they were supposed to be on his side. Stuff like that in the media, and gullible college trendies (which I'm guessing is what you are) who think they're saving the environment (or fighting the rich), is why the average American (or whatever applicable nationality) will always be shit on.

>>128226712
It's a good thing we don't need any power at night. Otherwise, we might need electricity 24 hours a day!

Why is everyone so pro coal?
The entire industry is hellbent on turning upstanding hard working white men into blacks.
Just look at the coal mines, whites go in, blacks come out. Even their lungs turn black the indoctrination is so pervasive.