Why is nationalism such a bad thing? What is wrong with having

>>127867290

Perceptions of nationalism went sour after WW2.

Then even further after the Balkan wars.

Nationalists have a nasty habit of purging the "lesser races", which isn't fun at all if you are one of the "lesser races" or someone else conquers you.

>>127867290
Like most things it has good and bad effects. The good effects is that itncsn be used to bring large groups of people together into cohesive societies and nations that can perform certain tasks more effectively. It is not the only force that create a shared sense of identity however.
On the bad it can lead to people becoming to rigid in their ways because they expected to follows uniform culture in order to be a member of a nation. It can also result in excluding people's that don't fit into the nation. This means that the state's will have access to less resources. Also, patriotism can be used to silence those who have real and necessary criticisms of the state or nation.

>>127867291
>Perceptions of nationalism went sour after WW2
I would argue it was more the Great War tbqh

>>127867292
Fair point. This kind of explains why the socialism aspects of the Scandinavian countries have had a fair bit of success. Their population is small and homogeneous - unlike the USA which is full of faggots and niggers and no one wants to pay for their shit

>>127867291
>Perceptions of nationalism went sour after WW2.
>Then even further after the Balkan wars.
The Balkan Wars happened 28 years before WW2 bruv

>>127867295

Bleh, Yugoslav wars. They were the death knell of nationalism in Europe.

>>127867293

There were still plenty of Nationalists after WW1, especially in Eastern Europe, Italy, and Germany.

WW1 did in 19th century nationalism in France and Britain. It bit the bullet even earlier in Sweden, after the Great Northern War.

The catalyst for the demise of Nationalism is a war where you lose 50% of your male population between the ages of 16-30.

File: 1471167498211.jpg (68KB, 600x600px) Image search: [Google]

68KB, 600x600px

>>127867290
>Why is nationalism such a bad thing? What is wrong with having pride in one's identity, culture, values, etc...
nations have been invented by liberals and a nation is a retarded idea, like anything created by liberals

They have an inherent othering affect (precived and real) which can be used to justify some real shity treatment of people.

>>127867296
>It bit the bullet even earlier in Sweden, after the Great Northern War.
Sweden literally sterilised people as part of "racial hygiene" in the 20th century

because when you put yourself above others you can use that to excuse violence in solving problems

>>127867290

>Historically [...]

Wrong. Fuck off

>>127867290
>What is wrong with having pride in one's identity, culture, values, etc...

Because you as an individual contributed fuck all to those things.

Enjoy them sure but they were not the fruits of your labor and to act as though they are and a means for you to denigrate and look down on others just shows how much of a piece of crap you are.

>>127867302
What if you're an active and beneficial member of your community, and are keenly aware of what makes your community different than that if the rest of the world?

Your statement seems reliant on the idea that the proponent be a basementdweller, but what if they're a fireman, policeman, or town mayor?

>>127867290
>Historically, this has always been a good

example?

It leads to violence racism and authoritarian regimes with a lack of human rights and democracy.

See Trump for example

nationalism =/= pride in one's nation

poor bait

>>127867290
It lost a point from western European perspective. There are no longer empires oppressing lesser nations or kings proclaiming to be above common man like in 19th century.

File: 1495800923484.jpg (239KB, 754x1641px) Image search: [Google]

239KB, 754x1641px

>>127867290
Before someone makes more arguments about being proud of something you took no part of.

What about gay pride, black pride or something similar? Why does no triggered intellectual never bother these people?

File: _95973043_50164dbc-039f-48e8-8273-cb5bedb05456.jpg (31KB, 660x371px) Image search: [Google]

31KB, 660x371px

>>127867306
>oppressing lesser nations


Define opression. People claim that blacks were opressed in South Africa but the living standard there was the best in entire Africa.

>>127867290
>What is wrong with having pride in one's identity, culture, values, etc...
That isnt nationalism thats patriotism
Nationalism is where you say you're better than others and then start attacking them

>>127867309
>and then start attacking them

Its hardly an attack when people illegaly invade your nation and abuse the social system.

Defending what was left behind by your ancestors is being evil agressor now.

>>127867310
All nationalist countries have invaded countries not even close to their own, stop talking bullshit.

>>127867311
Huurr duur wars happen because of nationalism.

And yet every influential warmonger wishes to destroy nationalism and import people who fail to assimilate to start civil wars

>>127867290

After WW2, nationalism is implicitly connected to war, genocide, and unrestrained imperialism.

>>127867308
Being punished for speaking one's language, for example.

>>127867312
>Huurr duur wars happen because of nationalism.
Yes
>Country becomes nationalism
>suddenly its trying to create an empire

>>127867313
>unrestrained imperialism

But nationalism was the restrain that stopped imperialism.

>>127867316
Are you retarded? Nationalism is the final form of imperialism.

>>127867290

>Historically, this has always been a good thing and was something people took pride in.

This is not true though, even in the case of a most cursory glance at history. Take Greek influence in ancient Rome for instance.
Cato the Elder had to constantly brandish the rhetoric against the influence of Hellenic culture on the Republic and needless to say, he failed.
Look to Europe also (or any major continent for that matter), despite many groups sharing a common heritage they splinter off then subsequently war with each other.

Further, it is something of a myth to say that current culture, identity, values and what have you is not a patchwork of preceding peoples.
This is not an issue within itself, but conflicting elements within the constituent parts are simply left unresolved and put aside.

Anyways, the decrease in popularity can be chalked up to Globalism. It's as simple as that.

>>127867314
>Being punished for speaking one's language, for example.

A society of many languages does not work. It is bound to fail and if your IQ was above 80 you would know it.

No one is banning people from speaking a certain language but knowing the language of their country should be a requirenment to be allowed to stay in it.

>>127867312

>Huurr duur wars happen because of nationalism.

This is objectively true. Nationalism invites people to adopt an "US vs. THEM" point of view, where it is okay to commit horrible atrocities so long as it benefits "your" nation.

>>127867317
No it isnt. EU is imperialistic and most EU citizens are not nationalistic.

Destruction of small nations will lead to one world empire

File: 1424053120385.jpg (44KB, 250x250px) Image search: [Google]

44KB, 250x250px

>>127867317
>Nationalism is the final form of imperialism

>>127867320
Same can be said about communism. It makes people think "us vs them" . Wait communism sounds way more destructive as nationalism

>>127867321
>EU is imperialistic
lol. Confederation isnt imperialism

>>127867307
Because they likely go through those same troubles, but I notice within these communities you have people being criticized for using it for political personal gain (like blacks who criticize al sharpton), or gay black and browns who call out the white gays who talk about struggle, when they likely had things easier and use the gay angle also for personal gain. Maybe you just don't spend enough time within these communities to see their internal problems,

>>127867323
Switching your argument to an attack on communism doesnt make you any less wrong

>>127867320
I live in a country where mass murders and civil war happend because of communism.

Another dangerous thing would be religious fanaticism aka the current theme of muslims hating nonmuslims

This is why most words ending in "ism" are stupid, unclear and vague. Nobody even fucking agrees on what they mean.

Am I "nationalist" if I don't want mass immigration into my country? Some will say yes, some will say no, but either way, the "ism" is not important.

>>127867326
Nationalism is ideology. Should all ideologies be frowned upon because they cause division?

>>127867323
Nationalism and communism both have globalist agendas.

>>127867327
Communism and Fascism are the same thing in practice regardless of ideological difference.

File: greeks crimes against macedonians3.jpg (58KB, 464x487px) Image search: [Google]

58KB, 464x487px

>>127867290

Because nationalism implies conformity. There's nothing wrong with standing by your culture, assuming that culture allows improvement and complexity. [Some] Empires strike a good example of that. Countries not so much. Leaving aside the usual perpetrators, it's enough to look at the Greeks if you want a good example. They've routinely done purges in the northern parts of Greece, erasing any trace of the original Macedonians (mind you, REAL Macedonians, not the Slav pretenders) and claiming that land was Greek forever.

I think that's what offends me about nationalism the most. Empires are at least more honest when they stake a claim and want to take some territory. They'll come up with some casus belli bullshit and just do it. But nationalist states go out of their way to displace other populations and distort history to fit their agenda. At their core, nationalists are ideologues, not politicians.

>>127867329
Yes.

>>127867290
Because (((they))) said it is bad, btw it is only bas when white people do it

If negroes or sandnegroes do it, it is good

>>127867325
Since when do all homosexuals and blacks in the west struggle? I love seeing some E celeb that makes 5 times more than a hard working man cry about white privilege.

>>127867329
This is your stupidest argument yet. No, obviously, but not all ideologies invade Poland and Manchuria.

>>127867327

Communism and Nationalism aren't opposites. They often go hand-in-hand. The USSR was very nationalistic.

>>127867294
Sweden isnt nationalistic, only in that neoliberalism type of civic.
Sweden aint rly socialist even, the market is very free = lots of monies = welfare and partymembers living good on taxmoney bc muh workers

>>127867331
One of them does not lead your country into a phase of starvation. Which is it oh which is it?

>>127867336
Communist Russia invaded Poland. Communist Russia sent people to work camps.

>>127867339
Fascism, so what, it can produce food, it's still shit.

>>127867340
And? Every time someone attacks nationalism you randomly mention communism for no apparent reason other than to deflect, as if people don't view communism as equally shit.

>>127867316
Dude what

>>127867341
It can produce food so what? Dude are you serious? Fascism is way better than communism even if it has many flaws.

Do you even realize that most of you would lose your property under communism? That people were forced to take strangers into their normal sized homes under communism?

>>127867344
Yes, but most people were still fed under communism, but who cares, they're both equally shit. Communists just kill their own people while fascists kill others.

>>127867342
>as if people don't view communism as equally shit.

No they dont. Communism unlike Nationalism is being promoted in colleges and universities.

Communism is actually growing within youth and becoming a popular thing once again.

>>127867319
>No one is banning people from speaking a certain language but knowing the language of their country should be a requirenment to be allowed to stay in it.

Therefore all Poles should have moved from Russian empire? All those Slavs, Magyars and Romanians should have left the Habsburg Empire? And Irish should've just jump from their isle?

File: Soviet POW's in Nazi concentration camp.jpg (66KB, 700x444px) Image search: [Google]

66KB, 700x444px

>>127867339

>As long as you're only starving "other" people it is okay

>>127867346
It is and that's worrying but people with actual brains who are educated realise they are both the same shit.

>>127867344

>Do you even realize that most of you would lose your property under communism? That people were forced to take strangers into their normal sized homes under communism?

t. someone that knows nothing about communism

My parents and grandparents both grew up in a communist regime. And let me tell you, sunshine, nobody ever shared a fucking bed. Everyone had a home. EVERYONE. And a job, and lots of money. The only problem was that there was no food to buy, and nothing to spend your money on.

But homes and beds? Trust me. They had homes and fucking beds. It's literally the one thing they did have.

>>127867348
You have no idea how many people starved during the war. The fact that they were captured alive meant that they were not starved on purpose or they would be murdered on the spot.

>>127867346

>Communism unlike Nationalism is being promoted in colleges and universities.

Pro-tip, saying that rich people should pay a higher percentage of income taxes isn't communism, unless you think that literally every US president since Woodrow Wilson was secretly communist. Hell, even Calvin Coolidge made rich people pay higher income taxes and he was probably the most fanatically anti-taxation of any modern president.

>>127867290
Nationalism is itself only 150 years or so old. It is not the 'natural' way humans associate with each other. It is very much a social construct (yes, I know, the word gets overused for many cultural facets, but it is quite simply true here). What's most 'natural' for humans is extended family clan structures, as you see in more primitive groups. But it kinda makes sense.

The problem is if if you have multi-ethnic states, inevitably one 'major' identity gets chosen as the default and minorities are instantly 'Othered', even if they've also been local inhabitants for centuries (i.e. Jews in Poland, natives in USA, Canada, Australia, NZ, Mexico, Brazil, etc).

I think nationalism really only works organically for smallish mono-lingual, and (more or less) mono-cultural states. Portugal, Denmark, Uruguay, etc. Very few countries are truly ethnically homogenous, especially in the face of globalization et al. Otherwise it's quite artificial. It can still work, but then the nation needs to be values based rather than ethnicity based.

Even today, fairly homogenous nation-states like Germany, France, USA, China, and so on have large regional identities and differences. What varies is how much the nation-state is identified with.

because nationalism invariably leads to racism and genocide. see trump, brexit

>>127867290
Besides from the fact that you are proud about something you didn't have any part in, no there is nothing wrong with nationalism.

>>127867351
Are you implying the holocaust didnt happen

File: 1495987310793.jpg (14KB, 185x268px) Image search: [Google]

14KB, 185x268px

>>127867319

>A society of many languages does not work.

Holy fuck, how retarded can you be? There's millions upon millions of people that end up bilingual. Also, there's countries with clusters of minorities where a single language is spoken just fine. I'm Romanian, and the Hungarian population here has a spot right dab in the middle of the country where everybody speaks Hungarian and they study in Hungarian. So fucking what? Does that make them less human, somehow? They're just normal people.

File: 1429736468128.jpg (29KB, 328x295px) Image search: [Google]

29KB, 328x295px

>>127867347
What exactly were you trying to accomplish by bringing up empires that were broken apart and divided into nation states, which would be desirable if you wanted to apply nationalism universally?

>>127867304
It *can lead* to violence racism and authoritarian regimes with a lack of human rights and democracy.
>ftfy

Switzerland, Yemen or Belize haven't bothered too many people.

>>127867350
Actually i am from a former yugoslavia and that was the case here. Also people could only drive a car every second day, had limited food supplies and other things.

Stop lying to children on here. Sure a lot of things were built on debts by the end of regime but that left the future generations screwed.

>>127867350
muh anecdote

>>127867303
Not him, but I find it rather hard to believe that a productive member of society would fall into an ideological trap if they didn't also have some issues on the side. That being said, it's just my own personal theory but if a person has their priorities in order and also uphold a healthy amount of self-esteem as a result or in congruence with that, what reason would there be to compensate by proclaiming you're the member of a master race that needs to genocide all subhuman filth or whatever the fuck. Couple those tendencies with stupidity or naivety, and the outcome will be so mind-numbingly vacuous that I'll have to massage my temples each time my brain has to process it.
I mean, I do believe that pride in the people and culture you identify with is generally a good thing. I love the history and traditions of my people, but I also make a conscious effort to cut out wholly unnecessary hypocrisy and keep a consistent world view, so I do not use it as an excuse to exalt myself over entire groups of people, some of whom will be more meritorious than I.

>>127867352
>Pro-tip, saying that rich people should pay a higher percentage of income taxes isn't communism
Not him but communism, and Marxism, is genuinely being promoted in colleges, two of my tutors are self proclaimed Marxists and several students in my classes are too.

>>127867356
Yes holocaust never happend. If it did there would be no camp survivors. Nearing the end of the war the Germans would just order to murder people and try to hide as much evidence as it could.

Leaving survivors would be a terrible idea and feeding them would be retarded

>>127867351

>The fact that they were captured alive meant that they were not starved on purpose or they would be murdered on the spot.

You forget about the need for slave labor. The Nazis relied heavily on prison labor to feed their war machine. They kept prisoners around just long enough until they felt they were no longer useful before killing them, sometimes with starvation, sometimes with gas.

>>127867358
What were you trying to accomplish here >>127867308 in the first place?

>>127867364
Saying that the Holohoax never happened is taboo in this commie board.

>>127867360

I'm not lying faggot. I'm sorry Yugoslavia was (and to be honest still is) the shithole of Europe, but not every communist country was the same. Communist countries loved to pride themselves on how they needed no one and could be self-sufficient, which is why there were plenty of buildings but nothing to eat. HOW THE FUCK AM I LYING TO CHILDREN? AND WHAT CHILD WOULD RATHER HAVE A HOME THAN FOOD? YOU STUPID FUCK. I JUST TOLD YOU THERE WAS NOTHING TO FUCKING EAT. DOES THAT SOUND LIKE MOTHERFUCKING PRAISE?

>>127867309
You're correct that that isn't the definition of nationalism but you're still wrong

>>127867364
They're slave labour work camps fool.

>>127867364

>Nearing the end of the war the Germans would just order to murder people and try to hide as much evidence as it could.

That is literally what they did.

>>127867366
>you
nope

>>127867369
Well history is on my side.

>>127867363

>Not him but communism, and Marxism, is genuinely being promoted in colleges, two of my tutors are self proclaimed Marxists and several students in my classes are too.

t. Americanski or western European

If you think this shit flies in Romania, Hungary, Bulgaria, Poland, etc., you're sorely mistaken.

>>127867371
And yet there are so many survivors some even claiming to have survived 4 years in death camps.

But its antisemitic to call such man a liar. He must have starved for 4 years like some magical indian guru

>>127867334
>sandnegroes

That doesnt even make sense

File: revolution 1848.jpg (154KB, 900x705px) Image search: [Google]

154KB, 900x705px

>tfw comfy liberal nationalism will never return

>>127867290
Because reactionaries LARPing as the "Left" want to destroy every element of true Liberalism, and nationalism is one of them.

>>127867374
>If you think this shit flies in Romania, Hungary, Bulgaria, Poland, etc., you're sorely mistaken.

Yes it does. Look at your universities especially the ones that focus on human studies like sociology, psychology etc

File: 1495278208032.jpg (189KB, 1024x683px) Image search: [Google]

189KB, 1024x683px

>>127867364

People can't even hide evidence of a simple murder. And you're expecting that the entire Axis (since the Holocaust didn't only take place in Germany) would've managed to hide all evidence that it took place? While they were struggling to survive another day? Are you this fucking retarded?

>>127867370
>They're slave labour work camps fool.

But people say they are death camps and their main purpose was to murder people. So starving people to death as fast as possible should be a priority.

Why let someone live for 5 months risking your plans to be uncovered? It makes no sense from a logical standpoint

>>127867380
One of the evidence they could get rid of is the actual people as that is what camps were suppose to be designed to do.

You know to prevent actual survivors from speaking out like they still do in 2017

>>127867379

No, it really doesn't. Stop projecting. In Romania there was a huge protest just this year where students came out in the streets chanting death to the "Red Plague." But, yeah, man, keep believing what you're believing.

Then again, I guess it depends on how brainwashed you've become already. Since you people have a very liberal definition of Marxism. I've seen retarded /pol/acks go so far as to say that Kant and Hegel count as Marxists as well. So if you're definition is so broad as to encompass, I don't know, THE WHOLE OF CONTINENTAL PHILOSOPHY, then, yeah, they teach that in every civilized country.

>>127867375

>And yet there are so many survivors some even claiming to have survived 4 years in death camps.

All that means is that they were seen as useful as slave labor. Prisoners were used as slaves, and killed off when they were not longer considered useful. The idea that nobody was killed simply because a few survived is outrageously stupid and you should be ashamed of parroting storm-fag bullshit.

>>127867380
Its not just the evidence. If you are hell bent on genociding jews why risk having them be freed?

>>127867374
I'm British, what's your point, that former communist shitholes dont care much for communism. True enough, except how butthurt you all get about Gorbachev.

>>127867381
They needed labour, they didn't care too much about being discovered since most of them had a bullet through the head.

>>127867384
>All that means is that they were seen as useful as slave labor.

But the main purpose was to GENOCIDE people and make sure Jews are whiped off the face of the earth.

>>127867383
>you people have a very liberal definition of Marxism.
How do you infer this?

>>127867382

>One of the evidence they could get rid of is the actual people as that is what camps were suppose to be designed to do.

...Are you listening to yourself? You're talking as if every person ever sent to a death-camp survived. The majority didn't. Some did, despite the efforts of the Axis members to kill them and/or cover up in time. What exactly is so confounding about this?

And all these assumptions. You're saying: (1) that Nazis would be able to pull off anything they wanted to do without so much as human error, and (2) that every Nazi was so loyal to the cause and put aside self-preservation as to do their utmost to kill innocent people. In reality, many of the Germans/Romanian/Croatians/whatever had misgivings about what they were ordered to do. Which is why we honor so many fascists that risked their lives to make sure that these people got away.

>>127867381
Some were primarily death camps, and others were primarily labor camps.

http://70.auschwitz.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=85&Itemid=173&lang=en
Now shut the fuck up.

>>127867302
>Because you as an individual contributed fuck all to those things.
This is the basis of fascism, though.
You are greater as a whole.

>>127867390
>some were primarily death camps

There were no death camps.

>>127867386

>Gorbachev

Most people under thirty don't even know who that is. You're over-estimating normies. They just know communism is bad because it's the consensus in these countries. It's not something they've reasoned out, just like it's being positive is not something kids in the West reasoned out.

>>127867388

Because many people consider any philosopher that has a German or French name attached to be a Marxist, maybe?

>>127867389
Buddy, the holocaust happened, it's impossible to deny, there's endless photographic, physical and human evidence.

File: plankton reaction face.png (100KB, 250x297px) Image search: [Google]

100KB, 250x297px

>>127867393
>Because many people consider any philosopher that has a German or French name attached to be a Marxist, maybe?
THE ONLY ONE MENTIONED WAS KARL MARX

>>127867394

Who are you replying to, shit-for-brains? Do you have any reading skills? Does it strike you like I was on the side of Holocaust deniers?

I just don't want foreigners to invade and change the face of my country. I don't give a shit about pride and I don't think my culture is superior to all others.

File: 1493027129065.jpg (63KB, 634x679px) Image search: [Google]

63KB, 634x679px

>>127867385

>If you are hell bent on genociding jews why risk having them be freed?

Because they were needed as slave labor in many cases. Jewish and Russian prisoners were forced to assist in many aspects of the Germany war machine. I really don't see why it is so hard to comprehend that prisoners were exploited for slave labor and then killed once they were considered too weak, sick, or tired to keep working.

>>127867395

>THE ONLY ONE MENTIONED WAS KARL MARX

And I am telling you that that's not how this works anymore. The term "Marxist" has become a meme now, and it's applied to any and all philosophers that aren't Anglo.

>>127867290
>Historically, this has always been a good thing and was something people took pride in

Prove it with primary sources

>>127867396
Alright i clicked the wrong post chill your beans

>>127867399
But going back to earlier, there are tutors and students in my university who call themselves Marxists, showing it to not be a dead ideology.

>>127867290
20th century.

Nationalists tend to do silly things that kill lots of people. As such, they're treated with the same scorn as Communists.

>>127867392
Cool conspiracy theory you got there. Did you read the link yet?

>>127867395
>this fucking pleb
That poster mentioned both Kant and Hegel, who were German philosophers.

>>127867402

Of course it's not dead. But it would be stupid to say it's as strong now as it was during the USSR, especially in the East. I don't know why Americans and English people are so into it, though. Must be some rebellion phase or some shit. I honestly can't even understand why any person would study Marx outside of an economy class.

>>127867398
seriously this, the germans also had tons of foreign workers from the countries they occupied, both willing and unwilling, working in factories and farms across Germany

File: os109,oHuCn6impHCVqcKHZpY[1].jpg (150KB, 566x768px) Image search: [Google]

150KB, 566x768px

>>127867404
No need, Schlomo.

>>127867407

So I suppose we've reached the inevitable: "I have no argument so I'll just accuse everybody else of being Jewish" phase.

>>127867404

Good luck trying to convince him, anon. This is what you get when you're dealing with people that live so far removed from all the shit that happened. In one of the town's near where I live, there's still a huge Jewish cemetery that strangers take care of (there's no Jews left). The synagogue was taken over by the German troops during the war, and now it still stands there eerily even though there's no worshipers.

>>127867405
It's definitely on the rise, it's always, always, middle-upper class well spoken well educated people who are marxists or communists, and it is completely rebellion. They rant on about capitalists and their evils all day while on their iphones and imacs and never helping the poor. They even say we need to do communism again at the end of a lesson about the collapse of the soviet union. Then they band together and talk about how all the countries current politicians need to be shot.

>>127867407
>linking an article directly from the Auschwitz-Birkenau museum website makes me Jewish
O-okay, whatever you say.

>>127867407

>accuses [x] of being fabricated
>is confronted by evidence of every kind
>"you must be a jew, i don't trust jews"

Fucking incredible dialectic there, chump.

File: hqdefault.jpg (15KB, 480x360px) Image search: [Google]

15KB, 480x360px

>>127867374
Well the Argentinian famous character zamba did in fact talk with Karl marx. Keep in mind this is a kid show.
So yeah communist are everywhere even in my pants

>>127867407
loser losing :^)

>>127867408
>>127867411
>>127867412

>t. triggered Jews

It's so easy.

>>127867413

That's the same kid that teleported into the Falklands war, little dude really gets around.

File: 1335218647063.jpg (61KB, 1205x881px) Image search: [Google]

61KB, 1205x881px

>Why is nationalism such a bad thing?

Literally read the history of the 20th century. The entire century is practically one huge nationalistic war.

>>127867415

I'm Orthodox. Christian, that is. And I don't particularly like Jews, but we are all God's children.

>>127867415
Pal, I post cyber woman with corn and reference VALIS in religion threads

>>127867290
Historically, nation states have only existed for 200 years. Personally, I find that nations actually destroy existing identities, cultures and values between us as they tend to create unnecessary boundries dividing groups with mutual cultural identities. There are countless borders going through regions in which people of the same culture/language/religion/ethnicity/etc get divided and likewise, a lot of countries that are stacked with multiple cultures/language/religion/etnicity/etc.

Why believe in something that has yet failed to prove to have ''always been a good thing''? Why not identify directly with your culture or values?

My perception of nationalism is sour because it is a step back in logical thinking!

If nationalism is bad, then so is globalism.

>>127867301
this

>>127867421
What is globalism?

>>127867417
>The entire century is practically one huge nationalistic war.
Imagine being so stupid that you actually think this way.

>>127867359
I am Swiss and I tell you that Switzerland existing as a nation only proves that it was created and still exists because of >freemarketcapitalism.

There are 4 different languages with the biggest one (German) representing 10 regional dialecs for only 7.5 Million people. Only unedducated and bigoted people are patriotic over here.

>>127867297
Explain what a nation is and what would be better overall.

>>127867363
Sorry to brake it to you but the world would actually look a lot better if everyone was a self-reflected marxist/socialist.

>>127867420
I'm convinced you don't understand what nationalism or a nation state is.

Why do you assume all nation states divide cultures and why do you assume that culture and nationalism are mutually exclusive?

>>127867428
>and why do you assume that culture and nationalism are mutually exclusive?

I'm going to guess they've read a fuckin book m8

>>127867409
Meh, they just want to believe what's convenient. The concept of truth has no significance to them other than it's usefulness as a power play. I live the US, and I have no interest in manipulation or being ideological prey due to gullibility.

>>127867427

>self-reflected marxist/socialist.

How would the world look better? I assume you're saying the world would be better off if people were good at heart. That's not the same as being a Marxist. Communists and Muslims believe in taxing you by force and deciding who that money goes to (assuming they even give it to anyone).

>>127867308
They were oppressed. They were oppressed by the Afrikaans.

The infrastructure, utilities and social provision provided to the black South Africans were vastly inferior to those provided to the Afrikaans. This is, undeniably, oppression.

The standard of living of Pre-Civil Rights African Americans were superior to some colonial African living in a hut but that doesn't mean that African Americans weren't oppressed.

>>127867392
And how would a fat neckbeard with obvious brain damage (you) obtain the evidence to back this up?

>>127867426

WW1 started because "Muh greater Serbia"

WW2 started because "Muh greater Germany"

Yugoslav wars started because "Muh greater Serbia (again)"

Arab Israeli wars started because "Muh Jerusalem"

A million people in Rawanda died because "Muh Hutu nation"

>>127867434
whoops, meant to reply to
>>127867424

>>127867424
>Imagine being so stupid that you actually think this way.

Imagine being so retarded you don't have an argument.

>>127867429

You still don't understand the definitions of the words you're using.


>The United kingdom
>multiple languages spoken around the country (Scots, Ulster Scots, Welsh, Cornish, Scottish Gaelic, Irish)
>language is an aspect of culture and different regional dialects
>these are all elements of the British identity and separate cultures that make up the emerged national identity of the country
>this has allowed the British to form an identity that they draw upon
>British nationalist still exist

>>127867431
>Communist and Muslims believe in taxing you by force and deciding who that money goes to

Are you actually retarded? First of all you already have to pay taxes and a lot of that money goes to, I assume, places you don't want your state to pay money to.
And how can you say that 1.5 fucking Billion people (>lolmuslims) all want to make you pay taxes and they, 1.5 billion people, all share the same opinion on taxation and government spending?

Iseriously doubt that you have ever had a conversation with a Muslim or an educated Socialist.

>>127867304
>muh human rights
>muh democracy

>>127867437
>You
>still
Point me to my previous posts bub

>>127867434
>WW1 started because "Muh greater Serbia"
Are we really simplifying things to a 5th grade history class level? /his/ was a fucking mistake.

I assume you're referring to the goals of the goals of the Black Hand. But even after Franz's death the war expanded to its scope because of the multiple (secret) alliances made by the countries at the time. If it hadn't been for those, this would just have been a police operation by the A-H army. Well, the Russians would still probably have gotten involved because they had an affinity for fellow Orthodox Christians, but religion is a component of culture, not a nationalistic component, so then the argument would be that that conflict would be the result of culture/religion, not big bad nationalism.

>>127867438

First of all, that's one of the pillars of Islam, you fucking imbecile. You might know it as ZAKAT? LITERALLY ONE OF THE MOST FUNDAMENTAL THINGS TO THE PRACTICE?

And yeah, you retard, of course we pay taxes. Taxes for things we need and want to upkeep: roads, police, firemen, feeding the poor, healthcare, whatever. But I don't give my money away simply because X or Y happens to "need it" more than I do. Or have you forgotten 'From each according to his ability, to each according to his need'? Or, let me guess, this isn't part of your ideology either, huh? Just like zakat, this is just some peripheral aspect?

Eat shit and go fuck yourself.

>>127867428
I'm convinced you haven't understood what have written.

I have never assumed that all nation states divide culture but that there are countless examples proving that it's happening.

I do not think that culture and nationalism are mutually excluslive but only that they are unnecessary for your cultural identity and the latter often makes the former dimminish.

How did humanity benefit from nations? The richest are getting richer but the amount of people being wealthy is decreasing!

Nation states have been created by rich people and have to this day only benefited them. I'm not being personnal right now but the only two reasons you are defending nationalism are either because you're rich and want to keep your money or you have misunderstood the meaning of culture and the nature of nationalism.

>>127867425
I am aware of Switzerland's intricacies. That was kind of the point, as it's more of an exception really. It existed before the idea of 'nations', but quickly adopted the concept in the mid-1800s.

Switzerland originally existed as a defensive collective, which luckily mountains make easier. The whole Mountain Jew thing came later., and is just another industry Switzerland itself is fairly 'socialist'.

>>127867437
>The United kingdom
>multiple languages spoken around the country (Scots, Ulster Scots, Welsh, Cornish, Scottish Gaelic, Irish)
>language is an aspect of culture and different regional dialects
>these are all elements of the British identity and separate cultures that make up the emerged national identity of the country
>this has allowed the British to form an identity that they draw upon
>British nationalist still exist

Funny thing, Imperialism.

File: 1452824327782.png (569KB, 588x412px) Image search: [Google]

569KB, 588x412px

>>127867438
>educated Socialist

>>127867445
>>127867440
I'm trying to find your arguments but they escape me...

>>127867442
I'm not muslim so you can try to offend me as much as you want...

How is paying taxes for feeding the poor any different from zakat?

If you are still trying to tell me that 1.5 BILLION people all share the same oppinion on zakat or even that ''muslim nations'' are all equally interpreting the concept then you are dellusional my friend. Have a look at Saudi Arabia, one of the most fundamentally islamist countries being run by pervertedly rich degenerates that in a lot of ways really do not behave ''mmuslim-like''.

>this isn't part of your ideology either, huh?
You might one day realise that most people do not follow an iedology strictly with every aspect of it

Think for yourself and stop taking what people wrote hundereds of years ago literally.

>>127867338
lol news flash buddy, sweden hasnt been scandinavian for a while. i was referring to denmark and norway (notice how they both opted out of the nigger infested european union). also switzerland is another good example

>>127867448

>You might one day realise that most people do not follow an iedology strictly with every aspect of it

Then they shouldn't identify as followers of that ideology. It's that simple, and there's nothing else to add to it. How Muslims or Communists behave in practice is not my main concern. But what they're supposed to believe in, and what they stand for is made abundantly clear by the respective texts belonging to those traditions.

>How is paying taxes for feeding the poor any different from zakat?

Because both in the case of Islam and a socialist state, there's no one to say when enough is enough. There will always be suffering and people in need. For a Marxist, that goes out of his way to find oppressed groups, he could funnel all the possessions you have and those of all others, and still not have enough. Because at that point, by robbing everyone of their wealth, he would just create more oppressed groups that need to be taken care of. In socialism, there is no end to how much you need to give, nor any incentive to get people to be better.

>>127867447
By know you should have come to see that nationalism is irrelevant for human well-being and only proceeds to exist because the wealthiest people are benefiting from them and a fair amount of idiots are eating their shit or misunderstanding the root of cultural identity and thus shitting out new shit.

A lot of people are poor in this world. A lot of children are starving and ddon't have access to basic education or affordable health care. Neo-liberalism and its glorious nations states have not done the least bit to end this problem! Nations just exists to put borders inbetween people that should get at least a bit of wealth and people that shouldn't get any.

>>127867451
>because the wealthiest people are benefiting from them and a fair amount of idiots are eating their shit or misunderstanding the root of cultural identity and thus shitting out new shit.
Explain this but better without using the phrase "shitting out new shit".

And the second part of your post has nothing to do with the topic of this thread. But if you really want to have that conversation, why is it the role of my government to ease the suffering of starving children that are not citizens of my country? That is not the role of governments. Governments do, however, engage in humanitarianism so I'm not sure what you're getting at. What charities/organizations to you give to to help the problem you have identified and how will eliminating borders help better than what we have now? And if borders are eliminated which effectively ends nations, how do we even begin to help people in a good way?

I feel like I'm being trolled but I want to see you try to explain this.

>>127867450
I share your opinion on following ideologies. Ideologies are indeed strict and not flexible and thus unhelpful for solving problems that were different from the time when they were created. Same goes with nationalism as it is just another dogma as Marxism or Communism.

It should be your main concern, however, how Muslims or Commmunists bahve in practice as it is obviously more relevant in analising its effects on humanity.
FYI Islam is really diverse religion with 1.5 Billion followers and a lot of different interpretations (eg Sharia Law) that I, as well as you, for the most part do find bad for society.

Correct me if I'm wrong but it sounds a bit like you take what people write very literal and that the resulting ideology should either be applied for 7 Billion people or be condemnedd entirely.

What makes you so attracted to dogmas?

ITT Conservative reactionaries shaking hands with Marxists

Really makes you think.

>>127867454
>label everyone as an extremist
Whoa dude you're so fucking enlightened, can I suck your cock? It must be huge from the force of gravity pulling it down as you sit high up on that fence.

What's the point of this post?

>>127867451

That, and the main purpose of nationalism is to indoctrinate you. They've taken religion and stripped it of all its humanity, and they've replaced that religious identity with a national one that serves their own ends. You go to school, and there you get indoctrinated with the things that make YOUR PEOPLE and YOUR COUNTRY great. And then you have plebby and slavish ideologues arguing with one another as to which country is deserving of this created fiction based on a people and culture that inhabited that land some hundreds of yeas ago. Sometimes thousands!

The idea that nationalism somehow protects the little guy is complete and utter bullshit. The purpose of nationalism is to shackle you down to a strip of land and make you a subservient serf that has no escape because you're stuck within that cultural Zeitgeist. You only know one language, one history, one set of moral norms. All of which are decided upon arbitrarily by your "betters."

And then there's these valiant claim made by nationalists about how evil globalists are wiping out cultural diversity, when they're literally the first ones to do it. Because in order to have a nationalist state, you need to have conformity and unity. Meaning that the provinces under the hegemony need to drop their particularities and learn to comply with the orders coming straight from the capital bureau in order to fit the nationalist model. Because in reality, nations aren't clearly defined. People's genes can come from all over, and you can have three different countries laying claim to the same piece of land (and validly so, going by nationalist standards).

File: 1496066574423.jpg (22KB, 640x640px) Image search: [Google]

22KB, 640x640px

>>127867453

>FYI Islam is really diverse religion with 1.5 Billion followers and a lot of different interpretations (eg Sharia Law) that I, as well as you, for the most part do find bad for society.

You keep saying that, but unless they're from a different sect, that hardly makes a difference. The beliefs of Sunni Islam should apply to all Sunni, and those of the Shi'a should apply to all Shi'ites. There are doctrinal differences between the different sects, but the majority out of that number you keep giving belong to one or the other. And we know what their beliefs are. If they don't follow them, then they're being bad members of those faiths.

>Correct me if I'm wrong but it sounds a bit like you take what people write very literal and that the resulting ideology should either be applied for 7 Billion people or be condemnedd entirely.

I don't know why you see that as strange. If I have a particular object that has three characteristics, let's say x, y, z, then those are the characteristics that define it. If you take away any of those letters it's no longer that.

The same way with ideologies. Ideologies are based upon precepts which can be interpreted as constituent elements (like the x, y, z). So if a Sunni Muslim, for example, follows only the x and ignores the y and z, how the fuck is he still a Sunni Muslim? He's not.

If you say you believe in an ideology, you don't get to do take-backs. If you believe that there's too many rich assholes and some of that money should go to the poor, you shouldn't say "I'm a Marxist!!!" simply because you believe a single thing that comes out of the communist ideology. You could be a libertarian or simply a capitalist and still hold that belief. Once you subscribe to an ideology, and you label yourself as that publicly, then you should expect to be a target for people that take issue with what that ideology stands for (and rightfully so). Just because it's easy to use labels doesn't mean it's a good thing.

>>127867456
You say a lot of things that are false.

(To simplify things) Indian nationalism came out of the resistance to British colonialism, which is a huge part of the Indian identity. India is also a huge country, how many separate languages are spoken? A fuck ton.

>you only know one language
So wrong

Indian history also pulls from the diferent histories of the different regions with very different cultures (religious differences/food/dress/etc) and indian state education teaches the different aspects of the nation's history.

>one history
Wrong

>One set of moral norms
Moral norms are taught at home and morals are a cultural element so by definition in a country that consists of multiple cultures, would there not be separate sets of norms followed?

>The purpose of nationalism is to shackle you down to a strip of land and make you a subservient serf that has no escape because you're stuck within that cultural Zeitgeist.
Examples? Can you define nationalism?

>>127867452
Look man, I', sorry for having used bad language so here goes:
There are two kinds of nationalists
1. I am rich because it's easier to become rich in my country than it is in two thirds of the other countries
2. I fail to see what cultural identity means so I cheer for the immaginary lines that exist around the place i was born in without having contributed anything to it.

I start to believe that for you, it's a combination of both but I don't want to attack your seriously challenged intellectual capacity.
I still cannot understand why you would actually feel the need to seperate people by unreal boundries that evidently interfere with natural cultural boundries already existing.

Everything you've written from the third line downward is irrelevant since you have yet again failed to think outside the box.

>>127867456
>the main purpose of nationalism is to indoctrinate you
The main point of nationalism was to give people an identity outside of nameless peasant number 45677 slaving away for his lord that doesn't even speak the same language

>>127867456

Your idea of nationalism comes straight from some 1940's propaganda poster and its retarded.

>>127867456
Exactly, I totally agree!

>>127867459
>rich people
>nationalists

>>127867459

>I'm poor because I wasn't born in the right country waaah its so unfair

deal with it fag

>>127867459
>>127867460
These are ideological posts, not fact-based posts. You're talking about you political opinions.

>>127867457
> The beliefs of Sunni Islam should apply to all Sunni, and those of the Shi'a should apply to all Shi'ites.
Stop being autistic and go out to talk to actual people.
Have you ever been to a majority muslim country, let alone talked to three different muslims?

>The same way with ideologies. Ideologies are based upon precepts which can be interpreted as constituent elements (like the x, y, z). So if a Sunni Muslim, for example, follows only the x and ignores the y and z, how the fuck is he still a Sunni Muslim? He's not.
I totally agree with you, but again, by that logic almost no one is Sunni Muslim.

And thank you for letting my know I'm not a Marxist! I really have never claimed to be a Marxist by your definition.

>You could be a libertarian or simply a capitalist and still hold that belief. Once you subscribe to an ideology, and you label yourself as that publicly, then you should expect to be a target for people that take issue with what that ideology stands for (and rightfully so). Just because it's easy to use labels doesn't mean it's a good thing.
You're contradicting yourself, how is capitalism less of an ideology than Marxism? Why are you not allowed do share Marxist views but not be dogmatic but on the other hand be capitalist and share Marxist views?

>>127867458
you been to india?

>>127867456
>the provinces under the hegemony need to drop their particularities and learn to comply with the orders coming straight from the capital bureau in order to fit the nationalist model.

Maybe if you live in some authoritarian shithole.
Normal countries have such things as free elections, parliaments and free speech, so people from different regions can easily express themselves.

>>127867467
Where is your argument?

i was lucky enough to have been born in a really wealthy country so your <argument> is invalid

deal with it pleb

>>127867469
i fail to regognise your expertise in Indian sociology, anthropology or /his/tory so...

>>127867471
Then check to see if what I said is true. I could lie about having been to india anyway.

Stupid ass.

>>127867468
>free elections, parliaments and free speech
Your right, it's so meaningful being able to decide between right-wing-populists (finaced by his private industry), the free-market-lobby (literally private industry) or occasionally a democratic socialist that had to cooperate with private industry in order to have the means for political advertisement.

Power always flows directly and inderectly to people from private industry.

>>127867472
I know you could lie but that doesn0t change the fact that you keep arguing as if you're an expert on everything you type.

>Stupid ass.
No need to get personal

File: 15635780977.gif (41KB, 300x250px) Image search: [Google]

41KB, 300x250px

>>127867290
Why pray tell is the loyalty you justly show your king such a affront to social sensibilities? What the devil could possibly be wrong with demonstrating due pride in one's duty, status, birth, etc...
Forsooth! This has always been amongst what was considered just and of condition and was a thing carl's to lordlings endeavored to take pride in. Only recently has societies opinion of this most noble practice been brought into bruitous ill repute. Fie! For what reason?

>>127867290
Nationalism itself isn't bad, it's just that ethnic nationalism most of the time leads to war and ethnic cleansing.

>>127867290
thats an easy one.
it would interfere with the merchant elite who want to be in control. They wouldn't own the banks or be able to change the laws of government to benefit for their own good. Just imagine if each country existed for non monetary purposes, the elite would not be able to make as much profit with so many different currencies and nations acting on their own self interest. people would be more concerned about things like art and philosophy, the overall betterment of life than thinking of ways to profit. It would be terrible world for the merchants they might even get oppressed for their money obsession.

>>127867290
Theres nothing wrong with having pride in your country, its just when you become blind.

New /his/ Discord:
https://discord.gg/sf9tYGd

>>127867456
>>127867473
So what is your alternative?
You seem to hate modern democracy, capitalism, large countries and seem to favor a religious identity of some sort.
Feudalism?

Btw most of the stuff you seem to hate are unrelated to nationalism anyway. It's like those Americans who think anything state related or social is automatically "socialism".

>>127867299
That wasn't really connected with Nationalism or racism (For example, they didn't sterilize Finns or Sami). Eugenics in the early 20th century was simply seen as modern and solid science that proved it was necessary to sterilize certain people.

>>127867291
A Nation is literally a collective of of ethnic peoples with a similar culture. A nation-state should reflect this.

>>127867302
Does that mean you can't be proud of your parents either? Or the things you or your children accomplished through genetics?

File: anakin.jpg (56KB, 342x342px) Image search: [Google]

56KB, 342x342px

>>127867304
>racism
>bad

>>127867350
hahaha eat shit you tankie fuck. My Ukrainian grandparents have a different story. Fuck you and every commie apologist. I hope you have to suffer under the red boots you love to lick.

Communism is hell on earth. The worst ideologu even beyond Nazism or Islam. You are the most subhuman of scum. The worst of the worst.

>>127867479
You're right, it sounds like I lack an alternative solving our problems and you're right, I cannot display a perfect ideology because it doesn't exist. I'm not religious and think that politics should be seperated from religion. Some regionalist approach might work out imo.

Maybe syndicalism is the answer but it still fails considering that we live in a world with seven billion people and there would be horrific chaos if nation states get abolished on short notice.

I belive that we are ready for a new solution or ideology since different times require different approaches and marx' socialism is outdated for our time and needs

>>127867353
Nationalism is only Tribalism on a larger scale. It's nothing new, and nothing unnatural. You're correct about minorities, though. But that happens regardless of the political system. Multi-ethnic empires simply have a handcicap until the minority is absorbed. It's never a strength and always a burden.

>>127867483
It's time to meet new people buddy, the more people you talk to, the more you become human.

>>127867291
Because it caused the traumatic death of hundred of millions in every continent perhaps?

Watch, OP
https://www.ted.com/talks/yuval_noah_harari_nationalism_vs_globalism_the_new_political_divide

>>127867304
Perhaps in late stage but it's essential for a healthy and functioning democracy and uniting the citizens

>>127867490
To certain degree, it's true. Nationalism, like most ideologies, can be really beneficial when used in moderation but is utterly retarded when taken to the extreme.

>>127867491
I mentioned it earlier in this thread but look at countries like Norway and Denmark. These are small countries with very homogeneous populations. They might not be nationalists in the le fuck everyone else sense, but there does exist a sort of comradery between them which is not found in places like the United States.

What do those against nationalism think the proper response be against those peoples that still remain nationalistic? If they think force should be used against them, what makes them think what they're creating is anything different from a totalitarian dictatorship?

The elites of the US and other allied countries moved as a block to maneuver their countries to engage in costly conflicts with the Soviet Union at the expense of not only the people of the Soviet Union, and not only third parties, but their own people. They also thought what they were doing was right; that communism was genuinely a force for evil that had to be stopped. What makes anti-nationalists think they're so different from the elites in the Cold War, committing actual evil for the sake of stopping what they deem as evil?

>>127867290
>What is wrong with having pride in one's identity, culture, values
Being proud of ANYTHING you had no personal input in is laziness both intellectual and physical.

Pride of being X makes a man think he can find a reason to be content without working (on yourself) -- just be born X -- and you're already achieved something.

No you didn't you dipshit.

It's the same entropy of thought where the path of least work is preferred by masses.

File: p0208hl2.jpg (378KB, 1600x899px) Image search: [Google]

378KB, 1600x899px

>>127867290
>Why is nationalism such a bad thing?

its not. but its also not something to be proud of either. its a system for survival. power from unity.
>when the neighboring country hates your peoples guts so you have to band together and flex back

>>127867290
>Only recently has the social perception of this began to sour. What gives?

It's a filthy meme created to make people accept immigration and destruction of gene pool, leading to destruction of culture and fall of civilization.
And it has, unfortunately, been done with expertise. By the best. The eternal degenerates.

>>127867328
It depends.
Do you believe that you are better than those imigrants because they are of different nation/skin colour or because they are useless violent muslim sand monkeys?

>>127867290
ITT: People who have no idea what the difference between nationalism and patriotism is.

File: Nationalism.png (115KB, 602x283px) Image search: [Google]

115KB, 602x283px

>What is wrong with having pride in one's identity, culture, values, etc...
That's Patriotism. Nationalism is something else.

>>127867290
It sounds good but it also makes you hate what your country hates and not caring about what bad things your nation does
Is letting your leader think fit you instead of thinking fur your yourself
Nobody is gonna say that it's wrong to be proud to be German, british, French etc. If your proud of all the awful things that happened during colonizing other places people will think your an asshole

File: woodrowwilson1.jpg (19KB, 620x400px) Image search: [Google]

19KB, 620x400px

>>127867290

I'm going to introduce a counter-point to many of the arguments in this thread. Yes, the Axis invaded many countries and killed millions of people because of nationalism. But they were also defeated by nationalism. If Britain had been completely non-nationalist, they wouldn't have even tried to defend Poland and Hitler would have just been completely unopposed. Same applies to the USA. If there was no national pride in America, then nobody would have cared about Pearl Harbor, and Japan would have been free to do whatever they wanted. In Strange Defeat, the author (Marc Bloch) argues that one of the reasons that France was unable to stop the 1940 invasion was because the French had lost their sense of national pride, and as a result the country was disunited in the face of Nazi Aggression. So while excessive nationalism might indeed to quite dangerous, it would equally dangerous to have such little nationalism that you are unable to defend yourself.

>>127867502

If Britain was Nationalist, they wouldn't have bothered to defend Poland in the first place, because sub-humans in other countries getting killed is none of their problem.

You are an idiot confusing national pride and national identity with Nationalism. Finish high school first.

>>127867290

It's only a bad thing to postmodernists who are trying to murder everyone in the name of equality.

File: 1428618412723.gif (4MB, 456x255px) Image search: [Google]

4MB, 456x255px

>>127867503
>You are an idiot confusing national pride and national identity with Nationalism.

>>127867290
Nothing inherently. Being racist/racialist, or "WE WUZ" is what's retarded. Loike your nation, country heritage, race and history all you like, maybe learn and appreciate othersalong the way. But don't go around expecting other people to suck your dick just because you're a certain 'race'
>>127867302
>>127867362
These

>>127867482
if by parents and kids you mean "smart people, who died centueies ago with a similar skin tone and no family relation in any way" then no

>>127867504
t. Jordan Peterson

>>127867290
Because nationalism creates a us vs them false dichotomy and leads to war just like fascism. Whilst civic nationalism puts pride in heritage without wishing for the deaths of the black masses
Yes they'll be Paki benefit scrounges but there are also white ones
You have Irish gypsies and regular gypsies
If your race is truly superior why weren't they always superior
But really just American ww2 propaganda taking the genie out the bottle of far leftism

>>127867290
Isn't it obvious?
It's bad nowadays because it doesn't benefit globalist interests.

>>127867509
>native born scrounges =/= imported scoungers
kys

>>127867290
jews don't want you having a strong identity, whether its nation, race, or culture. the goyim are easier to control when they don't care about borders or race, and jews are more difficult to identify in a country full of mongrels

>>127867506
What passes as 'racism' these days is completely retarded.
Saying we're not all 100% genetically identical and that there are differences in IQ between different ethnicities, which explain the differences in success both between countries and the corresponding ethnic groups in a country is not racist or wrong.
It's an important discussion to have around immigration, especially if you have a high tax socialist welfare system like we do in Europe.

>>127867290
Which board are you guys from?

>/his/ asks a simple question about identity
>Half the thread turns into people advocating for communism

Truly
The smartest of boards

>>127867290
The banking industry makes more money with globalism somehow so they force the meme through popular culture & the media, social media, entertainment etc, you don't have to buy into it.

>>127867500

Patriotism is loving the state, nationalism is love of the people