Redpill me on Jordan Peterson. He seems like the new meme philosopher.

>>127615201
Just sort your self and you will get it.

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>>127615201
>shunning responsibility

If he was responsible, he'd be able to explain his ethics.

>>127615201
He gets my vote for /ourguy/:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eieVE-xFXuo

MGTOW gets it wrong in a lot of ways and becomes the male version of feminism. However I think the idea of it is misinterpreted by bitter people who.

I think the real idea is 'monk mode' which means giving up earthly tethers and otherwise becoming alpha.

You can be a happy positive vibrant friendly person and still clearly come off as confident/not needing other peoples validation. That's different than being cold/ignoring women.

>>127615201
>His studies seem to focus on neets.
Only guy that ever cared about the NEETs, he deserve an Nobel prize for his work

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>>127615201

Another ragie wagie.

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>>127616089
I have no hope for the future. I have been trying to sort myself out (and have managed to make some progress, gotten a job etc.) but I have no 'big goal'. I can't imagine myself being happy in the future, I just want to be left alone. I tried going to a church BBQ this past week and I hated it.

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>>127615201

>sort yourself out

I get the point of this and have followed the advice (work out, eat right, dress right, go out, socialize, read more, education, etc.) but I still feel stuck and disconnected. I am not passionate about anything. I go out and all I see is reminders of the redpill and the society that seems to want to destroy itself. The more I see the more obvious it is. It's discouraging. It's lonely.

Does anyone have further advice to overcome this? I feel like I'm only growing more cold and distant, but I'm physically in great shape. I don't want to turn into a super villain.

>>127615201
>Redpill me on

Redpill yourself on the sticky you fucking faggot.

>>127618655
it clearly says it's fine if you elaborate

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>>127615201
He's a smarter, better educated, more sophisticated Molymeme

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>>127616824

pretty much

>>127618523
Did you rescue your father from the underwold yet?

he's a c level public intellectual, you arent going to get much of value out of him but i suppose he can be a gateway to far better right wing thinkers.he's accessible to the uninitiated, that is about the extent of his worth. you need public figures that any fuckhead can understand if your ideas are to proliferate and influence society. otherwise you end up a isolated political subculture with no real influence in the grand scheme of things. this is one component of building cultural hegemony.

>>127615201
>That weasily voice.

>>127616089
>MGTOWS want to be left alone.
>Feminists want gibmedats and no accountability.

>>127621641
t. zizek dick rider

>>127615201
His work confirms the beliefs that I have already adhered to ( often using less sophisticated language, but he is a lecturer so he needs to be comprehensive)
So I should stop consuming his content. Since it is no addition to my life. If I'll listen to him any further it will be while cleaning my room.

>>127617502
>>127617502
Dont worry about the big goal anon. Everyone struggles with the big one. Focus on the little things you can do. You are making progress. Thats what peterson talks about, you arent ready for the dragon yet

>>127618523
It's clear that your passion is saving your community from the leftist threat. Get into local politics, maybe start with a seat on the school board, and fight back. I'm sure there's an uncontested seat you're eligible for at the local level that you could get in on.

>>127615201
>meme philosopher
He's a clinical psychologist and a professor. Molymeme is a meme philosopher.

>>127615201
/ourguy/

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>>127616002
He's said he regrets calling MGTOWs weasels and explained why he said it.
He's worked with people that had a few problems then fell into the MGTOW scene and it made it a lot worse.
He also said that one problem with pushing against MGTOWs is that they're not wrong. The system is rigged against men.

>>127617502
>I tried going to a church BBQ this past week and I hated it.

Was it just that nobody talked to you? Church communities can be hard to penetrate.

>>127615201
Pedo. So dont gimme this man children responsibility to breed slaves for you with stinky corrupted hairy stab wounds

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>>127623488
I just don't know what I'm aiming at anymore, anon. When I was in high school I was sure that I wanted to do medicine, and I worked really hard at my subjects to get into university, and I even managed to snag valedictorian, but once I got into university I just.. crumbled. I lost my childhood faith, consumed large amounts of philosophy, searched through various religious and ideological beliefs, flitted from one hobby to another, had casual relationships, tried drugs, fantasized about killing myself, took a job completely unsuited for my personality (commission sales), and eventually had to move back into my parent's basement once I ran out of money. Then I ended up spending a bunch of time on /pol/ and was exposed to a whole new host of challenging ideas to sort through. I'm doing ~mostly~ okay right now, Peterson has certainly helped a lot, and I've been able to put some of my existential angst away.
>>127624590
No, it was my old church, and I knew lots of people there, but being around them was painful

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>>127624579
>He's said he regrets calling MGTOWs weasels and explained why he said it.

So he was wrong, yet he doesn't change his behavior to reflect such.

Which is logical, Peterson is a product of the meme called university. He's incapable of challenging the agenda of groupthink without making himself a target for censorship and ostracism from the very same university. (Followed quickly by a dissolution of his family as his wife is no different from any other)

He'd be a literal retard to be honest about how things are.

In other words, he'd be stupid to be responsible.

>>127625591
>I lost my childhood faith, consumed large amounts of philosophy, searched through various religious and ideological beliefs, flitted from one hobby to another, had casual relationships, tried drugs, fantasized about killing myself, took a job completely unsuited for my personality (commission sales), and eventually had to move back into my parent's basement once I ran out of money. Then I ended up spending a bunch of time on /pol/ and was exposed to a whole new host of challenging ideas to sort through.
Holy shit you really bounced from landmine to landmine, didn't you? Stop trying to find an ideology to cling to, it doesn't work. Either go with a traditional religion or create your own moral values and go from there. Get a job and get your finances in order then go from there.

>>127615201
Do you know why girls tend to gravitate towards rap culture? This guys knows.

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>>127626055
Yeah, I've had a bit of a time over the past ~3 years. I dealt with depression and depersonalization, everything Peterson talks about wrt travelling to the underworld. Things are improving though; I'm sorting through my presuppositions with an eye towards individual and collective surviving and thriving, taking my vitamins, and I'm feeling a lot better. I have a more open attitude towards religion and God, though I doubt that I will ever fully identify with one, though I am most closely tied to Christianity because of family and friends.

I'm still not sure what I want from school though. I've attended three different schools over the past three years, originally pursuing a chemistry degree before taking a year off, and after a lot of reflection, I think i would rather study applied mathematics (I had really great math teachers). I know Peterson encourages people to have children, but I've had such a horrible time that I don't really want to bring children into the world.

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>>127625591
I genuinely feel for you, I became depressed and dropped out for similar reasons, but I've never been the religious kind.

It helps to have a goal. Mine, once I was back at home was save money for a deposit on my own home. I spent 5 years clawing my way up from rock bottom, and by the time I got there, having had the freedom that financial independence brings, I had re-discovered my drive and have a career path in mind.

I never did put that deposit down on a house, I'm back at university, but this time i'm following the money.

NEVER pursue your dreams as a career, the chance that you will make it is tiny.

Indulge your passions in your free time, follow the money when it comes to work and strive to strike a balance.

>>127627471
Are you sure college is even for you? Maybe you should just get an easy low stress job and spend a few hours a day in a library reading whatever catches your fancy until you figure out what you want to spend the next few years studying.

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>>127615201
>meme philosopher.
eww i don't trust it
you fuckers like faggots like molyneaux and cernovich

nope not falling for it

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>>127615201
He's playing musical chairs on a sinking ship.

>>127627830
Molyneaux and Cernovich are memes, Peterson builds on the works of the likes of Jung, Nietzsche and Cant. I find him far more palatable, knowledgeable and profound.

>>127628138
Also the work on George Steiner, I've recently found. I bought a copy of his radio lectures "Nostalgia for the Absolute" from CBC radio and it's very similar to JBP's teachings. In the final part Steiner even calls out the Frankfurt school BY NAME.

On one hand I love Jordan Peterson and makes me think new things, on the other hand I sometimes feel like https://youtu.be/NAh9oLs67Cw?t=1m5s is just a straight up parody of Jordan Peterson.

If you ever read this Peterson, please comment on this thought, how is your interpretation of the bible different than the linked videos interpretation of a 3 panel garfield strip?

>>127628388
Have you seriously lost the ability to distinguish satire from critical analysis?

>>127627668
Idk desu. I'm working a very low stress job over the summer (landscaping, and I get to listen to music/audiobooks 80% of the time), and I'm hoping to sort myself out enough over the next three months that I'll be able to focus and do well at school. I've got my uni application open in the next tab, and it's due in two days, I basically just have to hit the 'ok' button, but I've been procrastinating because I don't feel 'aligned' towards anything right now.
When I was in high school, I was more or less a turbo leftist. I got duped by the anti-life ideas of white guilt, deconstructionism, postmodernism etc., and had more or less set up my life with the aim of assuaging my white guilt by becoming a highly skilled doctor and then volunteering overseas for nogs. /pol/ saved me from that, but after the JQ, race-IQ, the loss of our monarchs and natural elites, learning about communism, international finance system, mass immigration, etc., I've been flirting heavily with the blackpill. I'm more or less resigned to the fact that the world is eventually going to come under the authority of a one world government/supped up UN, and if I do anything short of taking up subsistence farming inna woods, I'll be helping (((them))) to achieve their goals. Feels sad man.

>>127628273

>(((Steiner)))

Haven't looked at any of Steiner's work yet. I'll have to dig some of it out and have a look.

>>127628762
Well of course, but what I'm getting at is that he could extract the same kind of analysis from ANY story, like the video shows. A 3 panel Garfield comic, I'm sure the video could've been much longer as well.

Of course you can get endless meaning out of the bible, compared how big it is to the pipe strip. I'm just saying WHY the bible, why not a garfield comic? Why not greek mythology? Sam Harris asked the same question in his second interview with Peterson, but Peterson kind of went off on a tangent and didn't respond to the question.

>>127621641
t. underage pseudo-intellectual

>>127628800
>I'm more or less resigned to the fact that the world is eventually going to come under the authority of a one world government/supped up UN, and if I do anything short of taking up subsistence farming inna woods, I'll be helping (((them))) to achieve their goals.
That's the wrong way to look at it man. Maybe watch some Murdoch Murdoch, because they deal with blackpill a bit in their videos. The important thing is to never give up hope. Sort yourself out, prepare for the worst, but hope for the best. I wouldn't go back to university unless you were fully sorted and motivated, knowing precisely WHY you're going back and how it will help with your life goals. Otherwise keep chilling and reading and figuring and sorting.

>>127628890
Yeah I know but the lectures he gave were very on point.
http://www.cbc.ca/radio/ideas/the-1974-cbc-massey-lectures-nostalgia-for-the-absolute-1.2946821
I have a physical copy of the transcripts but you might be able to find a digital copy of those somewhere, too.

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>mfw I tried to imagine myself as a nazi camp guard like Peterson suggests and had no trouble doing that and even found myself enjoying the thought.

The monster within me has consumed me. I an full of genocidal thoughts against non Finns littering my beautiful homeland. I hate them so utterly. I value the life of a bee above some rapefugee shitskin. I want them dead so fucking bad.

>>127629142
It's a long story but it goes back to JBP's personality lectures. Also check out his book Maps of Meaning which explains in a LOT of detail the connection between neuro-physiology and the mythological constructs he talks about most (Marduk, bible, etc).

He's interesting but his philosophy gets gay really fast when people that aren't him start using his analogies to explain things ie: the serpent, going to the underworld, slay the dragon.

>>127625746
>thinks telling boys that women are snakes is a bad idea
>doesn't want to gas the kikes
>this means that he's an indoctrinated good goy cuck beta cuck cuck retard
Just because he isn't part of a genocidal death cult centered around a thai lady boy forum doesn't mean that he's wrong.

>>127628388
You can extrapolate anything ad-nausem to sound profound. Peterson seems to be directly against the kind of post-modernist garbage that the video is parodying.

Take for example his almost 2 hour argument with Sam Harris on what constitutes truth, Peterson had this idea of a "Darwinian truth" which is anything that is accurate enough to serve a need is "true enough" even if it is not factual. Harris pretty much stopped him dead with this on semantics and you can see that in his most recent talks, Peterson has actually re-worked this idea and started to develop it into something more so his argument actually stands up to scrutiny without requiring you to adopt his framework.

Developing ideas like this is the hallmark of a logical thinker, instead of someone who's just pulling it out of their ass.

>>127615201
>I understand MGTOW because today's society and courts can be so anti-male, but shunning responsibility to be forever man-children is simply not ethical.

Is simply not getting married man-childish? Was Jesus a man-child?

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>>127627912

This guy understands.

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>>127629743
> iktf
This is why I feel blackpilled. Even if I (continue to) sort myself out, the demographic trend is already set. I cannot bear the idea that my children would grow up as minorities in their own countries. Evergreen State College, South Africa, Haiti, Zimbabwe- when the non-whites become the majority, they attempt to exact revenge.

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>>127630099
>memes

He admitted he was wrong, he's just not enough of a person to take responsibility.

You're free to argue with him if you can get over yourself and do better.

>>127630511
Yep. Thankfully my homeland is not as far gone yet, so we may still prevail, but it will still require a lot of kebab removal.

>>127630511
The demographics are NOT set. There's still time to send them all back and reinvigorate white breeding. Have many children and encourage them to have many children as well. Don't give up hope.

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>>127630866
Tell me what winning looks like, anon, I can't imagine it any more.

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>>127630355
This brings up the question, what matters more.

Securing the existence of your genetic code or the existence of your ideas?

Now that you can reach so many with your ideas, is it not selfish to fulfil you more base primal desires? Would it not be the mark of a great man to throw himself upon the altar of his own greater good in order to build a better world for all?

Food for thought.

>>127615201
>His studies seem to focus on neets.
>Basic premise
you started off pretty well but that's not remotely his basic premise in any way. not sure how you can associate the two outside of attempting to be concise to siphon the information of others through the guise of not knowing. in general though it is very clear the invites he gets lead to messages orchestrated strictly to young people, but that should be obvious because the ones who are attending are young people. mostly men by his own observation. anyone trying to assume he should be more or less in one way or the other in his "guidance" or whatever else you wish to call it is fairly delusional. see it nothing more as a self-improvement speaker for the ill-informed youth.

his lectures are something else entirely and i gather that's not what is being addressed. and if it is, or you wish it to be, then as i mentioned they are separate. as such, i find it strange that young people are even capable of comprehending his religious talks at all without being pretentious about it. so it's hard for me to conceptualize that they would be the target audience, rather than him doing something he wanted to out of his own need to vocalize his thoughts on a matter he needs to bring structure to in order to understand it further. to my understanding, that's his stance on it anyway. to assume otherwise wouldn't hold much merit and i only mention it as a point to avert claims that he is preaching in some way.

his general lectures i've spent no time on (such as maps of meaning or those on logos), but the matters of political nature are pretty straightforward. he advocates for free speech and regards the perceived marxist propaganda to be vile and ignorant, whether you think it real or not. his stance on this is pretty clear and it's baffling to see people say otherwise (not necessarily contrary to). perhaps par for the course in slander.

>>127615201
a more pragmatic sam harris.

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I love the guy.

>>127618523
>I don't want to turn into a super villain.

Just embrace it.

>>127631072
>Securing the existence of your genetic code or the existence of your ideas?
It has to be both. There's nothing noble about dying childless, don't kid yourself.
>>127631065
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9B7EsenfFE
Watch the whole thing, brother, then watch the rest of the videos.

>>127630099
>just because he's wrong and admitted it doesn't mean he's wrong
I'm guessing you don't know much about philosophy. Stick to your Molymeme garbage, newfag.

>>127616089
>I think the real idea is 'monk mode' which means giving up earthly tethers and otherwise becoming alpha.
Hahahaha—you retards really should just stick to memes.

>>127631437
I intend to do both, but if you had to choose?

>>127630511
You do realise the only thing left now for white is the return of clans/families/tribes where we have to band together for survival, defence and growth. I now understand why these things were important in the past. If you didn't have a clan or tribe you were quickly removed. Organised marriage is the only future left for whites.

>>127631921
To pass on genes without memes is to see the death of Western Civilization and doom my progeny to a dark, dark world until the search for truth resumes in the distant future.

To pass on memes without genes is to entrust Western Civilization to races with IQs too low to maintain it (blacks and hispanics), or too races too neurotic or uncreative to advance it (asiatics and jews).

It HAS to be both.

>>127631065
You have children, you meet another family that has children and you agree those children will marry. You now have a connected family, do this with more than one family and you have a tribal/clan bond. If you can do this and buy land you can link up and join other like minded clans.

It will take a bit of time but you can survive and thrive this way.

>>127631072
Genetic Code.

>>127632174
In practice, of course. I agree.

But if the actions, nay, sacrifice, of one man could rouse the sleeping giant and secure our future, it would not be in vain.

This video deals specifically with the blackpill:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTGTL5hftYY

>>127624579
>He's said he regrets calling MGTOWs weasels and explained why he said it.
Of course he regents as this alienates those on whom he hoping to earn shekels.

>>127615201

>happily living my life however I see fit, while not bothering literally anyone else, or accepting any form of handout
>childish and unethical because I won't perform slave labor, and (((they))) can't tax me

>>127632896
>Now that you can reach so many with your ideas, is it not selfish to fulfil you more base primal desires? Would it not be the mark of a great man to throw himself upon the altar of his own greater good in order to build a better world for all?
When you wrote this, you were justifying your own fear of having and raising children by casting yourself as a tragic hero. But you're not. You need to take on the great, fearsome burden of fatherhood AND pass on your ideals. Just as the bible says that faith without works is dead, to talk the talk but not walk the walk is hypocritical and will inspire nobody.

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>>127632174
>asiatics
>uncreative

hang on, I've got a football game to go watch.

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post JP memes

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>>127633630

He's just a trad cuck. What's good for society is ethical and nothing else matters.

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>>127633685

>>127633620
Not an argument.

>>127633533
>you were justifying your own fear of having and raising children by casting yourself as a tragic hero.

Fuck no, my end goal is to build an empire for my family, no matter the cost to myself. I will not die childless. I have my goals laid out and every step I take is towards them. I do think these things are important to consider though.

This goy has no balls to name the jew, and yet some faggots there have nerve to push him as something more that another meme talking head taking advantage of new trend?

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>>127633741

>>127634245
>t. bloody post-modernist

>>127634145
Then why would you even post that? We need all the stable white households we can get. We don't need to try to justify empty heroics.

>>127632158
>>127632648
I forsee a future where reactionary groups (not just white nationalists) leave the cities to create enclaves, possibly through arranged marriages as you're describing. The globalists have stated that they wish to create smart cities, and urban centers will only become more (((integrated))) and (((connected))) as time goes on and technology becomes more all-encompassing. I've written about this in other threads, but I imagine that the nation state will eventually be subsumed within a supranational legal and economic framework (perhaps the proposed covenant of democratic nations which would replace the UN), and these smart supercities will become the new Babylon(s), centers of ahistorical modernism and postmodernism, cut off from any kind of identity, or connection with nature.

And.. I don't know what to do, desu. Do I stick it out in the city as long as possible, trying to raise a redpilled family, only fleeing when the barbarians are at the gate? Do I stand aloof from the ruins and attempt to ride the tiger/enjoy the decline? Leave the cities and attempt to pursue a pastoral, agrarian life innawoods? (I think this is what they call learned helplessness?)

He's a hack who cashed in big on the political right, while not completely burning his academic bridges.

He's part of the Sunshine Club, but sells self-help shit and accepts Patreon donations.

You sort it out.

I tried to listen to some of his lectures but I couldn't extract anything useful or practical from them. It's just psychological mumbo-jumbo.

Waste of time IMO.

>>127634428
Because what we need is less sheep. Will our victory not be hollow if we dilute it with the weak minded who cannot decide on the correct path for themselves?

I do not hold my beliefs because of doctrine or ideology, I hold them because I have given great consideration to all of the alternatives and find them wanting.

>>127633630
>>127633685
>>127633741
>>127634232
>>127634268
>>127634530
These fucking suck.

>>127634516
Get your life in order, then go into local politics and resist this at the level you can handle. If that's getting on a school board and fighting pro-globalism curriculum changes then that's awesome. If it's getting on your city council and voting against refugee settlement in your area, then that's awesome too. If it's getting elected to state legislature and fighting the agenda there, again, that's fucking amazing.

But first you have to get your life in order so you can't be pressured by money or threats to your reputation.

>>127634078
>Not an argument.

Actually, what I was responding to was not an argument. Showing off football, a totally uncreative spasm of egomania is a fair demonstration of the uncreativeness of those who are not asiatic.

>>127634145
Send me a message here, we can talk
https://discordapp.com/channels/312948581025710080/312948581025710080

>>127634516
It's not too hard to figure out. You stay where you have the most economic advantage.
The ideal situation is having a clan home in the country to raise a family, and also have a home in a city you can use for work and education if needed. This is what clans/tribes are about, sharing and making use resources.

>>127634870
No, of course it won't be. There's a role for the average intelligence of the masses who can only be led. The Catholic Church had it right for a long time: get married, have children, follow the law, raise them with western values and respect for tradition, and then skim off the very intelligent and put them to work in the ruling class (government/military/church) while the rest tend to the fields and industry. But they MUST have children and raise them properly. It's the very best they can do.

>>127635208
This, exactly this. Having a supportive network helps to.

>>127635092
2/6 are good. Post more.

>>127635263
>We can talk

Concerning what exactly?

>>127635212
You're looking at the median creativity, which is ZERO for all races. When you get to the right tail of the bell curve it's dominated by Caucasians overwhelmingly, which is more important than the median or average.

>>127634738
It's often difficult for niggers to understand vocabularies above "ooga booga muh fugga smoke weed"

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>>127635725
>it's dominated by Caucasians

Not an argument when you can't substantiate it.

>>127635851
https://www.questia.com/library/journal/1P3-1468043861/race-differences-in-intelligence-creativity-and-creative

Have an actual peer reviewed article about EXACTLY what I just said.

>>127635263
Hmm... so help me imagine the sequence of events..
> Sort myself out
> Go back to school
> Get degree
> Get into med school
> Get a gf
> Become a doctor
> Pay off school debt
> Buy modest house to avoid debt
> Start having kids
> Wife homeschools the kids and/or private school
> Be involved in local politics, fight the leftists and postmodernists
> ???
> Save the West

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>tfw you start noticing how austists in these threads start to emulate Peterson's cadence and phrasing

So i take it you've never been disspapointed by a Guru before? Get ready for that Dark Night of the Soul, it's going to be a trip.

>>127636299
I think I see some extraneous steps:
>going into debt to become a doctor
>paying off medical school debt
>then going into politics

If your goal is to become a doctor and help people, just do that and don't do politics. If your goal is to accumulate a lot of money before going into politics, spend a few months studying value investing then go into a decent career with as little debt as possible and make mad gains over the next few decades, then go into politics.

>>127636299
Develop a good network along that way, if you are a doctor can you pull all kinds of favours. Thinking long term is a good approach

>>127635699
Future of the UK
.

I watched one of his videos today. Which one is the "sort yourself out" video? Because I'd like to see it.

>>127618523
>I don't want to turn into a super villain.
Now is the time though. The situation is perfect, all the worlds armies are bloated and out of date. You can probably beat them all with a few million consumer grade drones programmed and armed intelligently. If you disarm MAD you will be my hero pretty much whatever you needed to do to accomplish that.

We can't move forward with MAD, it directly influences all our lives. At every moment of every human beings waking life there are multiple subconscious processes influencing their decision making based on the knowledge that the nukes may fly at any minute. MAD reduces fertility significantly in educated people.

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>>127636249
>https://www.questia.com/library/journal/1P3-1468043861/race-differences-in-intelligence-creativity-and-creative

Closed it after seeing the IQ meme.

Also, peer review is a form of argumentum-ad-populum and argumentum-ad-verecundiam.

Do you have any actual creations you can point to? I personally enjoy anime and Japanese language and music.

>>127629142
he does use greek mythology, even Mesopotamian myths. sometimes harry potter, sometimes Pinocchio. but the bible as a collection of myths strung together over the centuries are tales that lasts, and that's why he used them. If the garfield comic is remembered in 1000 years then maybe it might hold some significance, but I doubt it.

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>>127615201
he is pretty bad on historical facts, on how societies lived in the past. And what the natural state of man can be. He eats heavily into the jew holocaust, and also the "muh ebil nazis" lies.

The fact is that traditionalism works, right wing societies worked very well in the past. Its more or less a natural state of men to be in. That includes natsoc and also fascism. These are both things that work, that keep nations stable. Things that people even invented because they felt good under them. Its no miracle why these systems worked for so long, longer than communism and democracy even.

Even the US is not really a democracy, its a republic still.

>>127615201
He was just a regular ass professor, UNTIL ONE DAY some faggot gave him shit for not calling IT its preferred pronoun.
The faggot DEMANDED an apology and DEMANDED he never assume someone's gender again.
Peterson didn't like being yelled at by a faggot and being made out to be some monster so he said no.
This resulted in his big mob speech outside in which funny enough the brown students stood on his side and white students REEEEE'd at him.
Peterson had no problem calling the faggot by his preferred pronoun, but said it was ridiculous for these types of people to think people will know their preferred pronoun right off the bat.
He was also against there being a Canadian hate speech law.

The mob speech video went viral, now he gives lectures against these SJWs.

TL;DR
He was a normal Canadian teacher, then some SJW called him a monster because of feels, he didn't take it sitting down, and it went viral.

>>127636889
Ok i'm interested. get me a working link, your other one is broken.

>>127636645
Well, I had originally aimed at reconstructive plastic surgery (for a couple different reasons), one was the money/access to high society, another was the greater amount of control over my schedule compared to emergency surgery, and also for the ability to be involved in truly transformative work which changes people for the better. I bought heavily into the Jewish idea of 'repairing the world' before I became aware of the JQ and its connections to communism, SJWs etc., but the idea of restoring the brokenness of the world to the way we 'know' things 'ought' to be still struck a chord with me.
>>127636889
Yeah, and in the case of SHTF, I'll have valuable skills that could keep my tribe/clan alive.

I am attending his summer lecture series, as well as being friends with some of his past undergraduate thesis students.

He is quite the brilliant psychologist from a practice point of view, as he looks at patient treatment AND theory. If you've involved at all in postgrad research, you might have noticed that CAMH is dealing largely with treatment, and little on the theory of mind aspect that has been a focus for so long.

I think Peterson also explains belief structures, not just of the religious sort, in an accessible and pragmatic way. He's helping me sort myself out, buckos.

>>127621641

what intellectuals do you recommend reading about then?

>>127621641
I think the most important thing is he's out there trying to change shit and wake people up. That's more important than being a super intellectual.

>>127637018
>Closed it after seeing the IQ meme.
Are you implying IQ isn't real? Holy shit how ignorant can you be?

How about this, go to the New York City Metropolitan Museum of Art and look at all the art that's there and how much of it is from Europe and the USA and how much is from Asiatic peoples. And judge the relative merit of the two groups of art.

If you're going to throw peer reviewed science and IQ of all things out the window at the start then we simply can't have a discussion.

>>127616089
>I think the real idea is 'monk mode' which means giving up earthly tethers and otherwise becoming alpha.

Pretty much.

>>127618523
It's okay to be lonely.
Read Thus Spoke Zarathustra. Dude discovers the ultimate red pill (according to the book) while being a hermit, goes into society to spread it, gets mocked and shit, figures out how to overcome that. Great book. Helped me out when I was feeling like you are now.

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>>127638331
>IQ isn't real?

It's just as real as Amazon product ratings and bbb scores. Which is to say it's as real as TPTB allow it to be. I'm happy for you to demonstrate otherwise if you can.

>New York City Metropolitan Museum of Art

I grew up there. Nothing special other than some fantastic pizza and maple syrup.

>If you're going to throw peer reviewed science and IQ of all things out the window at the start then we simply can't have a discussion.

Good that you've committed yourself to unreasonableness so quickly, this will save us a lot of time. l hope things start going better for you.

>>127618523
Read Epictetus.

>>127621679
He sounds like Better Call Saul. Exactly

>>127639116
Unironically, if you throw out the validity of IQ, you're going to throw out basically everything that isn't hard physics, chemistry or math.

>>127639276
>everything that isn't hard physics, chemistry or math.

You mean joke-memes like sociology, politics, and psychology?

No loss in that, is there?

>>127615201
He's just a conservative Christian who happens to be a psychologist

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>>127617502
take the MBTI pill, research your personality. Made me do a 180 on my neet ways and discover talents I never knew I had. Now I'm on my way to great shekels, already making more than my parents.

>>127636889
>>127637587

Original link was broken. Last chance before I'm done with the thread.

>>127631817
That's the way to true enlightenment. Realize all earthly pleasures are temporary with no value and live your life without any material attachment

>>127639645
But you can't go too far with this and shun material pleasures.

>>127639827
Of course you can.

The bit at the end of his Harvard lecture is super important. The world is begging on its knees for young people to be like he suggests, its the only thing universities dont bother to tell their students to do.

Hes also good on practical stuff like relationships and bullying. Should be basc info but people dont have parents that actually raise them anymore.

There is a lot to learn from JP, doesnt mean you have to support him like a football team, thats totally missing the point.

>>127639543
that shit is like reading your horoscope. its total bullshit

>>127639543
INTJ here. I don't recommend taking that test. It will only confirm your autism, which is sad.

>>127636299
>Wife decides to Eat, Pray, Love.
>You will be the bad guy.

>>127639947
I mean for your own good. Should have said you shouldn't.
It's a retarded way to live. If you truly have peace of mind you can enjoy the material pleasures without succumbing to the pain that accompanies attachment.

>>127621641
fuck off shill he's a tenured professor

>>127634690
He put his career in peril & risked going to jail you stupid faggot

>>127640172
>I mean for your own good. Should have said you shouldn't.
>It's a retarded way to live. If you truly have peace of mind you can enjoy the material pleasures without succumbing to the pain that accompanies attachment.

All the great sages shunned material pleasures in order to achieve happiness.
If you don't want attachment, pretty much by definition, you should not desire material pleasures.

>>127640023
Have you actually tried it or are you just posting for the sake of posting? I've researched my personality as well as those of people around me. Now I'm manipulating the fuck out of them into getting things my way without them even knowing. Works like clockwork.

>>127640066
No test will help a person dead set on feeling inferior. Change your mindset.

>>127639276
Good, if you aren't a fucking rationalist then you should be put to death

The IQ test is a decent correlation for weeding out literal retards, but considering how you can study for it and increase your score by like 20-50 points (if you are near the average), it's a fucking meme.

People use it to argue against causally based neurological FACT like neuroplasticity because they take it as dogma and don't want to have to reinvent the wheel. The biggest problem is that race realists think that neuroplasticity is an obstacle to German Idealism, which is a fucking meme because genetic determinism is a much bigger obstacle to German Idealism. Blacks will still have lower IQ's, even if we train them to take the test. If we really wanted to prove the idea of race realism, we need to treat IQ honestly, and then STILL PROVE THAT DIFFERENT RACES ARE DUMBER.

Don't get me started on the pathetic cucks who insist that asians aren't creative because it's the only way that they can assert that whites are better. You can't fucking measure creativity anywhere near as well as intelligence, a simple look into these horrible studies will tell you that the metric for what is "creative" is a pathetic approximation.

>>127621641
u r so smart omg!

>>127630119
Excellent observation, underrated.

>>127640421
I like to believe I'm actually superior to other people, but I can't help but feel down when I'm not able to have fun, socialize, pick up girls, like everybody else does. I find all these things, like dancing in a club, etc pretty stupid. But I came to the conclusion that if you really want to be happy, and not become a wizard / cat lady or a nut, you need to fit yourself into the crowd..

Can anyone explain why he shills christianity so hard, it's my only main gripe with him.

>>127639436
>>127639116
I highly encourage you to ACTUALLY look at what IQ is, what it correlates with, what correlation IS, probably do some statistics study as well, and in general sort yourself out. I'm just astounded that someone can be on /pol/ and deny the validity of IQ.

Now, setting aside that moron, to all the lurkers: It has been shown very clearly that only the Caucasian race has both the IQ and creativity to maintain Western Civilization. Do not assume that the negroids, mulattos, and asiatics can inherit Western Civilization and maintain and advance it without caucasians. If the white race goes, so does western civilization and darkness will envelop the world until a new high IQ/creativity race develops.

>>127640388
Not having the desire isn't the same as not enjoying them.
That's the ultimate trick. Enjoy them when you have them, don't worry about them when you don't. It's the desire for enjoyment that leads to suffering, not the enjoyment itself.

>>127640421

Forgot to mention that socializing, meeting new people and knowing how to talk to them will get you pretty far in life. That's why ENTJs are more successful than INTJ.
INTJs have good ideas and plans, but they are procrastinating, and you will never be able to put all these ideas to work without help and without a lot of socializing and "ass kissing".

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>>127640842
>ACTUALLY

ooo, big cap letters, is this what a high-IQ can produce?

Are IQ proponents really so reliant on their meme-crutch that they can't form cohesive arguments?

>>127636600
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lw1MrMHQ9o
One of my favorite things in WP

>>127616089
>I think the real idea is 'monk mode' which means giving up earthly tethers and otherwise becoming alpha.
Monks aren't "alpha". They're beyond things like that.

>>127628800
Don't take the blackpill anon, you sound like a good skin.

Go for the applied maths degree if you're feeling it. It's an awesome degree and will give you a degree in an area most SJW cucks will never penetrate

>>127640870

But to achieve the "no desire" state, it takes practice and a good mentality (that is, not considering material pleasures as a "good").

For example, if you become promiscuous, you end up increasing your desire.

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>>127634690
Right so Drake can sing

"Now goin' pop that pussy/I squeeze it and I can tell how it feel"

...LITERALLY about grabbing pussy, and he makes MILLIONS and gets presented with THE KEY TO THE CITY OF TORONTO...

...but a guy who has studied the dangers of authoritarianism for 30 years and is trying to prevent our society from degenerating the rest of the way into a murderous, malevolent dystopia is somehow a hack who doesn't deserve any money (which he uses to create better content) or accolades

>>127629142
The older the myths, the more relevant they are to our collective unconscious and psychological framework. Garfield would not work, it's not imprinted into our brains like ancient myths are.

>>127641256
Determinists are incapable of understanding practical arguments

They don't understand that the IQ test relies on the idea that what it's testing is set in stone, they don't understand that one of the nifty things about the human race is that it violates that principle, and that if you try and test logical capability and speed then obviously people more practiced in it are going to do better.

Can you formulate a better test that just tries to analyze the aspects of intelligence that are set in stone? Yes.

But assuming this is more useful than analyzing the full spectrum of intelligence, fluid or otherwise is fucking stupid.

You shouldn't throw out the IQ test, it's a good test of intelligence, the fact of the matter is that it's just not a great test of set intelligence.

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>>127640781
>>127641132

That was me just 4 years ago. I pulled myself out of there by gradually thinking less and less loser thoughts, that is the key. If you tell yourself you can't do something then you're actually making it a self fulfilling prophecy. Being sociable is a skill like any other - the more you do it the better you become. Sure some people are better at it naturally, but some have to learn it. If it's important to you, it'll be worth investing time into developing that skill. Procrastinating is a bad habit you have a complete control over. A good first step is to give more focus to your strengths, and to stop inflate your weaknesses on to the point of it crippling you.

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I wouldn't make the mistake of underestimating Dr. Peterson, or being too upset that he's not 1488 for this reason:

Peterson has clearly read many books and knows the science of politics back and forth, and have done so he learned what I will tell you right now.

Plausible Deniability.

Peterson retains his credibility by only attacking issues that are still hot on everybody's minds and who have the greatest chance of leaning towards his side after hearing his arguments.
And what does he do after that?
He argues tenet by tenet not for racial realism, not against gay marriage or abortion, but for the basic concepts of conservatism and culture that young people of the left have probably NEVER been exposed to by somebody of his credentials.

After planting the seed of doubt for lefty ideology he doesn't call it a National Park, he plants more seeds of in the barren once forrested landscape of western humanity.

He's a romantic. He wants all men to be valiant heroes and all women to be fair princesses (he's more subtle about women though). Most of his stances are basically directed to this worldview.

>>127641809
>They don't understand that the IQ test relies on the idea that what it's testing is set in stone,

Neither of you understand what IQ is or how the tests work, or the work in connecting IQ to neuro-physiology. I'm sure you're both doing very well in your STEM degrees but your arrogance is only revealing you as ignorant.

laught all you want trad C U C K S, when your time comes you'll see why some like me chose mgtow, i want to believe in the rise of the west but it seems it doesnt get better anytime soon, so in order to not get fucked by this pathetic gynocentric feminist cucked society i choose mgtow

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>>127641809
>You shouldn't throw out the IQ test

Why? IQ proponents in this thread so far have done a spectacular job of demonstrating the insecurity of their ideologies by avoiding key questions.

So, what use has IQ been so far besides being a distraction from logic?

Do IQ proponents understand that if the stone is flawed, so is the metric?

>>127641639
You've got to get past that stage. That's the final trick.
>We mustn’t take ourselves too ridiculously. I mean, naturally all human beings have in them a certain clinging, so you can’t let go totally, you wouldn’t be human if you did. You cant be just a leaf on the wind, or just a ball in a mountain stream, to use a Zen poetic phrase.
>Humans suffer because they take seriously what the gods made for fun.
>Because if you where that you wouldn’t be human, just as I pointed out that a person with no emotions, who has completely controlled his emotions is a ‘stone Buddha’. So a person who would be completely ‘let go’, would also be some kind of inanimate object.
>And so to be perfectly human one must have not a state of absolute detachment, but a state of detachment which contains a little bit of resistance, a certain clinging still. They say in India…of a man who is liberated in this world, that he has to cultivate a few mild bad habits in order to stay in the body, because if he was absolutely perfect he would disappear from manifestation.
>And so the great Yogi maybe he smokes a cigarette or has a bad temper occasionally, something that keeps him human, and that little thing is very important, its like the salt in the stew, it grounds him.
That's Alan Watts.

>>127639645
Fuck off, Christcuck. If that were true, then you would kill yourself than to live in this evil material world. God is dead. Didn't you get the memo?

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Guys I have a problem.

I heard him speaking at Tara McCarthy YT channel but it seemed like he was some sort of centrist who despises any mention of nationalism and reminded me more of a classical liberal who will not even call himself a conservative when asked.

All that aside, I really loved his poetic way with words, and his metaphors, so I am willing to give him benefit of a doubt. Can anyone here drop me some beginner stuff from which I can get more into jacksonpill and finally clean my room and sort myself out?

>>127642667
Being a god-like sage is better than being an imperfect semi-sage.

But even reaching the state you are mentioning takes a pretty hard amount of practice.

>>127639118
or Marcus Aurelius

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>>127615201
>>127615386
>>127616002
>>127618523
>>127618655
>>127621535
>>127623949
>>127624590
>>127625746
>>127626055
>>127628388

>>127643251
You're talking full on stone-buddha. They don't even see a point in talking to others or trying to help people reach their level of enlightenment.
Even the god-like sages are still connected to the world through something, even if the connection is nothing more than the enjoyment of helping other people on their journeys towards enlightenment.
>In Mahayana Buddhism, a Bodhisattva is someone who has taken a vow not to obtain ultimate awakening until fulfilling some sort of goal. For example, Avalokiteśvara, the Bodhisattva of compassion, has vowed not to obtain Buddhahood until every sentient being in existance is free from samsara. Kṣitigarbha has taken a similar vow, promising not to become a Buddha until all of Hell is empty.

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>>127642254
takes /pol cereal.... needs to sort self oat.

>>127643909
I'm talking mostly about a Greek sage, rather than an Eastern one.

>>127642254
Boy, what an argument this is! Claiming authority without actually backing it up with anything!

>>127618523
This tbqh:
>>127639118
>>127643721
Stoic philosophy can be very valuable for someone in your situation.
Who else /stoic/ here?

>>127643909
>>127644244
And about material pleasure, of course...
The Greek sage would help others and so on.

>>127633630
bump

Peterson's OK for young men who have a life plan that will actually bring them reward. Me?

130-135 visuospatial IQ
160 verbal IQ
1st percentile in conscientiousness
Extremely rich family

Hold me brothers, the rakish disease that so preys upon university males has infiltrated every corner of my head. Peterson might be a genius, but he has no solution to the elite curse -- temptation is everywhere, and so good, and fuck it if you don't lose your mind for booze, pussy, and power.

>>127644244
It's a pretty similar concept though.
Why bother going around and teaching people anything if you are completely detached and can't enjoy anything?
Basically what I get out of all of them, eastern and western and Greek, is that detachment is the goal, but go ahead and keep enjoying things so long as you don't become attached. I can enjoy my car as long as I'm not upset if I lose it.

>>127644955
I don't think that's true. You have to be able to lose for things to be truly stimulating. Which is more exciting, a 75% chance of sex or a 100% chance of sex?

>>127644395
sup senpai
death to the neo-platonists

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>reminder

>>127642591
It's a good test of logical, linguistic, and spatial intelligence

That's literally all it is, if you want to test someones current capability with those things, it's great. The myth is that it tests their potential as well.

>>127644258
You're going merrily on your way and someone warns you that there's SOMETHING YOU DON'T KNOW, and you are CERTAIN that you already know everything so you just laugh at them and continue on. Is that really the right thing to do? Maybe, just maybe, there's something you really don't understand and you should look into it.

Or you can just laugh and continue on your way. This isn't a game or a contest. We're not keeping score of "arguments won on /pol/ regardless of what manner of sophistry either side uses". If you don't want help I'm not going to throw pearls before swine.

>>127645119
The 75% chance of course.
But I think the trick is not getting upset when you don't get the sex. You can be happy when you succeed, you just can't be upset when you fail.
I think it's all about re-calibrating your mind to have neutral be the lowest emotional state. Better yet would be to have happiness as your lowest possible emotional state.
"Well I didn't have sex, but I had fun trying" kind of attitude.

>>127645419
Oh, of course. Turning a loss into a win is one of the signs that you are a very well-adjusted person.

>>127645299
>The myth is that it tests their potential as well.
It's the single factor MOST correlated with future success, more than anything else by far. They've done studies of this, they measure the IQ of children throughout their childhood until adulthood, then see how successful they are. Then they adjust for things like income and race and all that and IQ is pretty much everything, the rest being made up by industriousness.

>>127644955
It is a little bit different.

You try to disconnect your desire for externals (material goods, for example). But at the same time, you act to help others because it is virtuous to do so.

>keep enjoying things so long as you don't become attached

An example:
A sage would choose the food he eats for the sake of nourishment, but also taking care to not eat anything that will increase his desire later.
This doesn't mean that while he is eating he can't enjoy his food. But that the reason why he eats is nourishment rather than pleasure.

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>>127633630
Ok

>>127644395
Me man. I went through some trauma, and don't think my life will ever be the same after such and such but stoic philosophy has helped me come to terms with it.

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>>127633630

>>127644918

Brad Pitt is rich. His status is very high. He can have any woman he wants. The last 3 women he had a relationship with were voted at some point in time as the most beautiful woman in the world by magazines.

Yet, if you look at his interview, he is not a happy man.

>>127645302
As far as the evidence I have been presented, I currently estimate that intellect is incredibly fluid, at least by about 20-50 points on an IQ test. So, I use my words to argue against the idea of determined intelligence because I think it's harmful to society. I am also aware that a lot of the fucking neuroscientists Peterson loves think that intellect is fluid.

If you throw a study my way, I'll look at it, I'm not "deciding" I'm right about IQ, I don't decide I'm right about anything beyond a few basic first principles that are practical necessities for the concept of knowledge. This is just simply where I'm left with my current understanding.

You seem pretty certain about your ideas of IQ though.

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>>127615201
He's one of the top minds of our generation.

>>127642591
>comic that actually shares its point without a fucking paragraph of text explaining everything
What artist

>>127645821
So I see what you're saying, I just think that there's a better level that comes after what you're describing.
To use the same example
>A sage would choose the food he eats for the sake of nourishment, but also taking care to not eat anything that will increase his desire later.
Why can't he eat for the purpose of nourishment while at the same time crafting a meal that he thoroughly enjoys?
If he is in full control of his emotions and desires no matter how much he enjoys his meal he won't later desire to have an enjoyable meal or to eat for enjoyment.
I think that asceticism is a path to an end, not the final stage.

>>127615201
his work seems to be primarily about unifying behavioural psychology and the more concrete aspects of 20th century existentialism and pre-modern stoicism.
then he builds on that groundwork by framing government policy and localised cultures as psychological interventions. so it's a lot easier to understand, i think, if you understand economic systems (especially the welfare state), propaganda, and the like.
because he's presenting the philosophical and political constructions in a biologically and psychologically rational way, ideas from other schools of thought can actually be 'disproven' when they are 'against the biological imperative'
plus he presents trinitarian Christianity in a very positive way, which is a nice change.

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>>127645299
>it's a good test

Nah. You either have sound ideas or you don't. And more importantly, you can grow when confronted with challenge.

Or you shrivel up and cling to your precious beliefs and start flinging fallacies left and right.

Logic is really not that difficult if you aren't an egomaniac.

IQ is social quackery.

Bloody Marxist in need of sorting.
Go clean your room, anon.
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>>127616002

>>127646413

Not sure, found it on diaspora under tag unsocial

>>127615201
MGTOW is on the same tier as feminism. Gas them all.

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>>127615201
I've cleaned my room and sorted myself out. I have a great career in a creative field that has been my passion since I was 3 years old. I'm making high five figures/low six figures every year with a potential for a few seven figure years down the line. I lift 4-5 times a week. I walk at least 25 miles a week. I shower every day and dress properly. I don't drink, I don't smoke and I don't do drugs. All this and I'm only 25.

The question is: what comes after? I have nothing to work towards. Marrying some young slut or a used up roastie is out of the question. This is something that Tradcucks like Peterson can never answer.

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>>127641659
Don't fall for the music Jew

>>127645708
I am perfectly aware of those studies, that isn't a proof of potential though, that's just a proof that if you take people and don't interfere with them, the current educational system will not help them improve there IQ test scores.

So that leaves: determined intelligence

Or: the education you receive in life/school is not a sufficient one to prove that the things IQ measure are inflexible.

There are studies that take people and use different "studying" methods and show whether they can improve their IQ scores, and again, the average result is around 20 points assuming they started at 100. It's almost like, if you don't teach people reasoning skills and logical shortcuts, they are going to do poorly on a test that tests those things! Crazy!

Roughly speaking, he's right about everything.
Is your room clean btw?

>but shunning responsibility to be forever man-children is simply not ethical

There cant be RESPONSIBILITY without POWER. Responsibilities without power = slavery.

So he acknowledges the fact that man have no power or autority in todays dynamic between sexes, but still shames man into sacrifise and servitude.

>Psychologist
Thats why its not science.

>>127647184
Start your own company. Have a bunch of kids with a nice wife.

>>127646271
Yeah, similar position. My friends look at how often I get laid, how much money my family has, and how dominant and assertive I can be, and wonder how I can be as miserable and aimless as I am. It's because of those reasons, not in spite of them.

>>127646311
>So, I use my words to argue against the idea of determined intelligence because I think it's harmful to society.
If I understand what you're saying correctly, you're rejecting humanities best understanding of intelligence following the scientific method because you think that the if it is correct, it would be bad for society. But how can you know what's good for society? Only if you have an ideology that already presupposes what an ideal society looks like, and you're willing to reject the best understanding of reality we have to protect your ideological presuppositions. I think that's incredibly dangerous and foolish.

>I don't decide I'm right about anything beyond a few basic first principles that are practical necessities for the concept of knowledge.
It's very questionable how far you can get by logically deriving from axioms. Aquinas tried it and derived very far, but he didn't discover anything. That's why the scientific method functions primarily based on phenomenology and attempts to disprove hypotheses rather than prove them.

>You seem pretty certain about your ideas of IQ though.
I reserve the right to change my thoughts on IQ when I'm presented with evidence that I'm wrong. I haven't seen any studies to that effect.

>>127647184
You need to sort out you ego, no offense but you sound like the worst kind of insufferable son of a bitch. Yeah bro, you're perfect, the pinnacle of human achievement - might as well kill yourself since there's nothing else.

>>127647184
Being virtuous is its own reward. Virtuous women exist but they won't look, dress or act like roasties.

>>127628800
Do his program, he said it improves people's university success rate by like 30%

>>127615201
He is the guru of millenials which tells you evrything you need to know.

If anything he says come of as profundity to you then you are deeply infantilised.

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>>127647068
>I label things I don't understand

As I pointed out, there are those that cling to their insecure beliefs and fling fallacies.

Tell me, when is this IQ god going to strike me dead? Should we nail it up there along with Zeus and Baal?

>>127646434
>Why can't he eat for the purpose of nourishment while at the same time crafting a meal that he thoroughly enjoys?

Because by doing so, by working so that he can have more pleasure, he is considering pleasure a good. He is desiring it.

>I think that asceticism is a path to an end, not the final stage.

Asceticism, is the path, certainly.
But I think that when you reach that stage, you don't do anything for the sake of pleasure.

>>127646827
Testing someones current capacity for intellect shows how much further you have to go. The ability to train yourself is not some instantaneous thing, it's still advantageous for society to test Logical capability. I don't want to fucking hire someone who sucks at analytical thinking and will take a year to train before they condition a more rational way of thinking.

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>>127615201
>I understand MGTOW because today's society and courts can be so anti-male, but shunning responsibility to be forever man-children is simply not ethical

In the original "MGTOW are weasels" lecture, he presents the traditionalist argument that men achieve self-actualization through taking responsibility for their family. At the end of the lecture, he was asked a question about sacrifice vs. responsibility and he confirmed that it's pretty much the same thing. Being responsible is about sacrificing immediate self-interest for some sort of greater benefit later on. He then pointed out that if the benefit derived disappears due to a breakdown in the system, it doesn't make sense to sacrifice. What he misses about MGTOW is that is exactly the argument we make here. The benefits that used to accrue to men from marriage have disappeared. That's why we won't make the sacrifice that Peterson demands.

>>127647218
>Or: the education you receive in life/school is not a sufficient one to prove that the things IQ measure are inflexible.
People have been trying to develop training programs for decades to improve IQ, and none of them have worked. It's possible to train and improve performance on specific tests of specific types of intelligence, but the gains in general (fluid) intelligence are non-existent. Interestingly IQ seems to be correlated with how fast your neurons transmit electrical potential, and good luck training that to be faster.

>There are studies that take people and use different "studying" methods and show whether they can improve their IQ scores, and again, the average result is around 20 points assuming they started at 100.
Sure, you can train people to get better at certain types of tests. But that doesn't translate over to improvements on different types of IQ tests, and it doesn't improve their outcomes in life in any measurable way. It's similar to how chess grandmasters can be very very good at chess, but then utterly fail at other tests of strategy.

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>>127647783
You're either a shill, or you don't comprehend the English language well enough to appreciate Jordan's level of brilliance.

>>127635851
>>127636249
>>127637018

you dont beleive in IQ, but do believe in creativity?
IQ and heritable personality (big 5) are amongst the only provable psychological models.
creativity is dominant in caucasians because it is highly correlated with extroversion, which can only really gain a foothold in large tribes with high stability and freedom of speech.
we're seeing now that after a few generations of living in a stable, large, free-speech nations blacks are becoming more creative too, because they have learned to value extroversion here, whereas in 3rd world nations extroverted people get burned as witches.

>>127647874
Yeah we'll just have to agree to disagree.
I take a more Nietzschean approach.
I recommend reading The Birth of Tragedy if you're interested in the Apollonian/Dionysian dichotomy.
>Nietzsche claims in The Gay Science that when Socrates drinks the hemlock, he sees the hemlock as the cure for life, proclaiming that he has been sick a long time. (Section 340.) In contrast, the Dionysian existence constantly seeks to affirm life. Whether in pain or pleasure, suffering or joy, the intoxicating revelry that Dionysus has for life itself overcomes the Socratic sickness and perpetuates the growth and flourishing of visceral life force—a great Dionysian 'Yes', to a Socratic 'No'.
Really fun stuff.

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>>127648092
>I don't want to fucking hire someone who sucks at analytical thinking and will take a year to train before they condition a more rational way of thinking.

Ah, so IQ test is a way to see how cookie-cutter and robotic someone is, how easily they can fit into the pleb-mould.

Yeah, I'm not interested in such a destructive practice, thank you.

>>127647818
>Tell me, when is this IQ god going to strike me dead?
If all you're going to do is strut around declaring your mental and moral superiority because you disregard accepted science, could you please stop posting? You're not discussing, you're just adding to the noise.

>>127648584
>Yeah we'll just have to agree to disagree.
I guess so.

>>127638082
start a book thread, you'll get a bunch of ideas.

>>127615201
I like his classes on mythology. That's it.

>>127648593
>Ah, so IQ test is a way to see how cookie-cutter and robotic someone is, how easily they can fit into the pleb-mould.
The implication of your post is that you don't even know what an IQ test is, you're just arguing against it based ONLY on what you see in this thread. Fantastic sophistry, please leave.

>>127639116
are you the sam harris "only observable reality" type?
who are tptb in your eyes?

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>>127615201
Peterson is based as fuck.

>>127637565
Yep. The one difference is he had the balls, integrity, and self personhood to stand up when the times had called him too. Most people are too weak or cucked to fulfill their roll when destiny tells them to. Not JP. That's why he's so popular. He's a Sorted individual.

he is a pussy worshiper aka simp

>>127647818
Here is your (you), you piteous fool. In the very short time you have been posting, you have shown clearly that you do not want an exchange of ideas, you want only to be right.
You are carelessly argumentative and have employed the usage of fallacious tactics to deflect facts. IQ is real, whether you like it or not anon. Deal with it.
You are belligerent, and are archetypal of a contemporary "thinker".
Bloody Marxists like yourself need sorting, and That's That.
Inb4 you post a snarky non-argument as a "rebuttal".

>>127648575
>you dont beleive in IQ, but do believe in creativity?

I was disingenuous. I do believe in creativity, but as a purely subjective value. So I can't honestly say that anyone isn't creative.

IQ seems like psychology to me, which seems to be nothing more than a popularity contest.

Maybe that will help explain why I value logic over IQ.

>>127647672
>If I understand what you're saying correctly, you're rejecting humanities best understanding of intelligence following the scientific method because you think that the if it is correct, it would be bad for society.
No, I'm rejecting the idea that it tests crystallized intelligence, I do not believe that it does, but it's not like it's only used in that capacity. I think it's a perfectly good intelligence test, just that it doesn't test potential intellect.

>It's very questionable how far you can get by logically deriving from axioms. Aquinas tried it and derived very far, but he didn't discover anything. That's why the scientific method functions primarily based on phenomenology and attempts to disprove hypotheses rather than prove them.
Lol, everybody derives from axioms, there is no such thing as pure epistemology because you can't escape reason and deduction when you interpret the data. You are confusing with the phenomenological interpretation of the theory of knowledge with the epistemological one if you are actually arguing for that view of knowledge though. I acknowledge that this particular argument is vast and undesirable to talk about in this format.

>I reserve the right to change my thoughts on IQ when I'm presented with evidence that I'm wrong. I haven't seen any studies to that effect.
That's fine, I'm the same way, I've just seen different studies than you.

Anyone got a link for the gulag archipelago pdf?

>>127615201

Just like that poz fag Milo, Jordan is using you guys because you are easily impressed fucking idiots.

https://www.patreon.com/jordanbpeterson

Look at that and think, without rebel media, without mgtow faggets(he hates them btw but they give money) and US college idiots that suck whatever dick that is trending on social media.

>>127616089
fag

>>127649704
i lost

>>127648904
You're missing the point. The question exposes the poster that called jordan a meme, for being a nihilist and/or commie that can't point out a good alternative.

Peterson has figured out the way he can do the most good, by redpilling generations on communism, IQ and other relevant stuff to the future of human society. By getting people to sort themselves, they'll have less mental illness and be less susceptible to leftism as a result.

It also makes sure people are armed to the teeth with arguments and personal resolve.

>>127648597
>I'm really good at projection!

Go ahead and disregard it bro.

>>127615201
He's not a pure philosopher really. He's a psychologist as they were. Essentially what psychologists are supposed to do is engage with existential and philosophical way in an attempt to fix their deep issues with pragmatic solutions and reason. He deals with the worst of the worst in his clinic.

>>127630071
I agree, but I really want an excuse to use the "Humans are just Chimpanzees that are full of Snakes" line.

>>127640541
creativity is primarily a proxy for extroversion.
studying for IQ tests only works when theyre short; you can always find ways to measure that arent known by the testee.
>blacks will still have low iqs even if we train them
thats because IQ is incredibly hard to raise.
plus, if you dont beleive in IQ, why do you hate nig nogs for having very little of it?

i think you need to spend a bit more time structuring your ideas, cause there seems to be large inconsistencies.

>>127629743
This is the most finnish post I have ever seen

>>127649791
Sure, but the cost has been tranny revolts and no more grants for his research projects. For better or worse, he's solely dependant on kickstarters and such for that. I'm glad that the man is reaping reward for standing up for what he believes in and try to prevent the rampant marxism.

>>127649791
Yeah, he uses us by actually teaching us something useful about the world and ourselves, what a con artist.

Sort yourself out and stop spreading lies like a puppet.

>>127643155
i dont think he understands how his philosophy can inform policy yet. give him a bit

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>>127649505

I'm happy to be wrong bro: you're welcome to demonstrate the strength of your superstitions any time.

>>127649577
>IQ seems like psychology to me
That is just so YOU, it's precious.

VENERATE YOUR FATHER

BUCKO

>>127650259

He has been spouting what many other psychologist, economist, anthropologist etc. have been saying for years, the only reason he has the spotlight is because he's a fucking meme! It fucking blows my mind people so stupid they have to listen to him, when you can simply do a google search and find all the information that he's just relaying for $100 a ticket + patreon donation.

>>127650531
>more fallacies to demonstrate how weak IQ is

At least you're consistent

>>127648292
>People have been trying to develop training programs for decades to improve IQ, and none of them have worked.

https://www.mckinneyonline.com/news/education/study-brain-training-improved-student-iq-scores-by-21-points-strengthened-core-cognitive-skills/

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1300/J184v09n04_03?journalCode=wneu20

in general the studies linked in this article are a valuable resource into figuring this out:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flynn_effect

There are more but I'm not going to gish gallop you. There are problems with these studies, of course, but there are problems with the other studies that prove that testing is ineffective.

>>127650713
I'm not even arguing with you anymore. I just think what you said was adorable. It's very much you.

>>127650740
http://www.businessinsider.com/studying-for-lsat-increases-iq-2012-8
I think you're wrong there, man

>>127651080
Meant for this guy
>>127648292

>>127650740
Flynn effect is a meme. It does not measure an increase in g the way most people think it does. It only increases one specific test area.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0160289699000045

>>127651080
Did you... read the article you posted? Or do you have me confused for another poster?

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>>127615201
sort

>>127649695
>crystallized intelligence
Oh, yes of course IQ tests (the actual strict IQ tests) don't measure crystallized intelligence. SAT tests and so on are better tests of that, but they're still correlated with fluid intelligence (g).

>potential intellect
That's a fuzzy term, but in general fluid intelligence (g) is pretty fixed, or I should say it has a cap based on your genetics, that you can reach given the proper upbringing, of which nutrition seems to play the biggest role. And the studies do show that (g) is the single biggest factor correlated with future success, however you want to define that.

>I acknowledge that this particular argument is vast and undesirable to talk about in this format.
Yes, quite. Suffice it to say that as I see it, scientific advancement accelerated most rapidly when study shifted from logical derivation from axioms (middle ages) to phenomenological investigation (scientific method). Nassim N Taleb talks about this quite a bit in his book Antifragile which you might enjoy.

>>127651364
>>127651214
That second thing you said

>>127650696
Except he uploads all of his lectures - even the paid entrance ones - on YouTube absolutely for free?

>>127650451
Here is your last (you) from me.
>superstitions
I'm not your bro, and I'm not your mother who will hold your hand through life.
Adapt or be cast out.
You are wrong, IQ is well documented to be real. It is not superstition or feeling, no matter how much you want or believe it to be.
Not only is IQ a real, observable phenomenon, but it is also the single largest predictor of life success.
You need to do more research by yourself, no one in this thread will be able to change your mind, you seem to be blocking out reason to feel superior.
You need to slay the dragon of chaos before you can climb the dominance hierarchy. And you need to clean your room before you can slay the dragon.
TL,DR: Sort Yourself.

>>127651320
>a single study
>a critique at that
I love it when /pol/ brainlets don't read the studies they post. I've read this one before btw.

The most problematic of the critics of IQ are the cultural bias ones, but pretending like those are the only critiques of the ability of IQ to test crystallized intelligence is ridiculous.

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>>127650852
>adorable

Thanks friend

>>127651080
I haven't looked at the other studies/sites that were linked on this topic, but I did look at yours.
>brain scans
NOT IQ. Not even close. Brain scans are cool but they're not good science.

>>127621535
>>127627912
He is trying to convince the people of steering the wheel of the ship to evade the damn iceberg. The crew are ideologues and you bastards understand what is happening but are too apathetic to interfere.

>>127652045
Look at the others, they are better.

>>127649577
the issue with young psychologists (and especially young sociologists) is that they self sample away from statistics.
but IQ and big 5 are amongst the very few psychological principles that can be replicably observed.
logic is different though, it's a knowledge structure, and no matter haw "logical" you are, that doesnt necessarily mean you have fluid intelligence.

for example, you can take logical premises and predicates and computer generate theorems.
but if you want to contradict or induct you need to invent the chain as an aside, then apply, which is definitely faster with higher IQ.
just think of IQ as 'processing speed' or w/e

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>>127651767
>IQ is well documented

So is your sophistry bro. No matter how much you want it or believe it to be.

Doesn't make either one any more valuable.

>>127639543
Jesus man, this shit is creepily accurate, warts and all.

>>127649828
your responding to a different guy. i actually think that peterson is very important;
there are very few people out there applying behavioural psychology to stoic thought, which is a huge development, especially for linking 'scientific proof' and philosophical concepts

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>>127651080
fuck mate, linking newspaper articles.
go back

>>127649577
> I value logic over IQ.

Think of a test for logic, whatever you come up with it will have a tight correlation with the other IQ tests. Your ability to reason and IQ are practically the same thing.

For example, most fluid IQ tests measure abstract reasoning, which is the root of logic. Even crystallized intelligence tests, like the LSAT have huge logical problem sections. Look for some example questions there if you don't believe me.

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>>127633038
i guess i'll watch it again

>>127652306
>Case Study: Improvements in IQ Score and Maintenance of Gains Following EEG Biofeedback with Mildly Developmentally Delayed Twins
Interesting but obviously not directly applicable to neurotypicals or adults. Also a sample size of one pair (2 subjects).

>Study: Brain Training Improved Student IQ Scores by 21 Points, Strengthened Core Cognitive Skills
This is more interesting, but I'm concerned about conflicts of interest and I haven't looked at the actual published paper or the methodology. If it works that's fantastic and literally everyone should be put into this program immediately, starting with the tail ends of the bell curve.

>>127651537
I am only criticizing the belief of how fixed g is.

I think as we get more studies we will find better ways to improve test scores, as the more recent studies show more flexibility on g. I agree that it's capped by genetics, but I disagree on the seemingly old belief that test scores are only flexible by 5 to 10 points. I don't predict that the average amount of improvement will ever get above 30, but that is a significant amount.

I thought there was going to be more butthurt MGTOWs in this thread but I am pleasantly surprised.