I'm looking for someone to give me one argument against

try it in israel and let us know how it went

>>127596886
It already works in Israel dummy.
All the ultraorthodox receive UBI

>>127596342
Because niggers will get UBI + foodstamps.

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>inb4 people will be lazy when they can do whatever they want meme

>>127599147
So where does the money come from? USA?

>>127599633
Correct!

Can Israel supply me with UBI so I can buy more ammo?

>>127596342
Governments will begin to enforce particular obligations on their citizens because they have us by the balls. Essentially, it will become slavery. We won't be able to say no to anything because the government could cut our life support at any time.

If you don't think this is a good argument then you're already a cuck.

>>127599633
>>127599726
First, so? There are 12 million jews in usa, literally double than that of Israel.

Secondly- its 2.5% of our GDP you think it matters at all?

>>127600020
>Governments will begin to enforce particular obligations on their citizens
Wow what a nightmare

>>127599147
As long as the US keeps subsidising you.

fucking parasite kike

>>127600213
You have effectively used people as slaves and it doesn't matter? LMAO WTF world are you from?

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>>127596342
Hyperinflation like the Weimar Republic.

You remember what happened after that, right Chaim?

>>127600366

His books all tell him that the goyim are created as slaves. Are you actually surprised that he's acting like he believes it?

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>>127600587
>Off by one

>>127600809
No, I just needed some sort of confirmation. I've finally got it btw.

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>>127600020
That's the x leads to y logical casuality fallacy.

Simply put, you will break away from any such dependency by simply getting a white collar job from the plethora of such jobs available.

Educate yourself /pol/

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/360/360-h/360-h.htm

What is Property? An Inquiry into the Principle of Right and of Government - P.J. Proudhon

>>127600842
It's literally a 1 in 10 chance. Not really amazing desu

>>127601113
Yeah, but I was aiming for 88.

>>127601242
Oh. My apologies then

>>127600587
>example of a pre- infornmation age

Discarded

>>127601242

I've never seen autism levels this high.

>>127601024
To save money they will make claiming UBI as painful as possible. When there really aren't enough jobs around, then what? Many people are going to have to be slaves to the government and will be forced to do whatever they are told.

One thing really does lead to the other. Stop being a myopic fucking retard.

>>127601527
The whole point of UBI is that you don't have to "claim" anything, it's given UNIVERSALLY to everyone at a certain age like 18.

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>>127600254
>Wow what a nightmare
Yes, I must be exaggerating how hellish it would be to break rocks in the freezing cold for 12 hours a day until dying of exhaustion. Surely a government would never do something like that to its people.

>>127601664
That's how it starts but it'll never stay that way for long. It's too profitable for politicians to abandon principles and whore themselves out.

Have you ever tried to claim benefits in the UK? It's pretty fucking tough and you barely get anything in return.

>>127596342

ok so if everyone get UBI, wont just shops put the price on everything up the same amount . aka inflation

an apple is 5$+ UBI

>>127599461
>foodstamps
this isn't how UBI works. maybe you should read up on it before being exposed as an illiterate nigger

>>127602482
So they get UBI only? Won't need a supplemental income? Keep dreaming retard.

>>127602590

Supplemental income would be a job.

>>127602300
Then you abandon politicians. You speak as if they were gods who must be obeyed or something, as if your cuckery were obligatory for everyone.
>flag
Checks out

>>127601527
the problem is that they will heavily tax your labor by 50% plus to finance UBI, with UBI being the guideline for all price making, the outcome wil be slavery

>>127602721
What is SNAP?

>>127602590
Consider how that changes the dynamics of the labor market. Bosses can't act like entitled assholes anymore because the employee has more financial space to use the take-this-job-and-shove-it option without risking ruin.
>>127602865
>thinks playing the Wall Street ponies is labor

>>127602865

Studies conducted showed that financing UBI in the US would require no more than 39% income tax. UBI is also payed for by the scrapping of all other forms of welfare plus all tax made from purchases made using UBI money.

>>127601527
How is the current system any diffent from what you just described?

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>>127601664
>>127602482

UBI is completely affordable and makes no sense and is retarded because youre sending welfare to rich people and billionaires and people who dont need it and wasting money

we need negative income tax (NIT) which gives money to the poor only who actually need it

theres no added bureaucracy because its based on your income which you have to file in taxes anyways and if you make more than a certain amount of money you just dont receive a negative income tax back

if you send money to everyone the rich will stay rich and it will never trickle down because even the rich get their welfare checks in equal amounts therefore you never really improve society

>>127602300
Not if you kill all the liberals. They are the ones who fetishize gatekeeping and curve grading of morality.

>>127603659

It doesn't matter if it's being sent to the rich anyway, they still pay the tax on it so it gets funded mate.

>>127600366
>>127600809
M'murican preaching on slavery.

Good read.

>>127596342
>a world where even programming jobs are on the verge of being replaced by machines

Not such thing, even if we reach that point for digital programming, there's still a whole new frontier to be discovered with Quantum Computing, it will probably be too late for humans to embrace the commie utopia by the time that we reach the S I N G U L A R I T Y.

There will be plenty new jobs for smart people, on the bright side, dumb people may have access to bionic enhancements or some kind of smart pill, at a relatively affordable price. Things may improve in general, but some will have it way better than the commoners whose jobs have been replaced by dumb machines.

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>>127596342
because that's unironically serfdom

>>127603928
Join the rest of the civilized world and denounce it. Otherwise you're literally a nigger.

>>127603097
you didn't think this through. the first step will be to invent another currency, call it foodstamps, even that won't help all the money will leave the country in no time, to Israel

>>127604136

What the fuck are you even talking about?

>>127604045
>there will always be work to do
How Keynesian of you.
Also, you need to get your mouth off of Pinochet's dick as if that were going to save you from free helicopter rides.

>>127604110
Denounce what?

>>127604136
Numbers are not gold. Repeat after me my nationalist friends:
*YOUR* MONEY'S NO GOOD HERE

>>127604422
Slavery.

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>>127603866
it does matter you fucking retard when the whole middle class is receiving welfare checks when they arent supposed to be

welfare is for the poor

your system is completely unafforadable

middle class are supposed to be PAYING into the welfare system

not taking out

>>127604466
Nobody endorses it.

>>127604715
Then you shouldn't have any problem denouncing it.

>>127604511
>middle class are supposed to be PAYING into the welfare system
>supposed to
I prefer to think of them as profit sharing.

>>127601527
That would kinda defeat it being a BI. But I seriously doubt that a UBI would stay U for long. C's would start creeping into it, especially if it was distributed via some electronic card. You'd find that the card only worked in some places and not others. Or you'd get incentives to use it here and disincentives to use it there. And you better believe they'd track and analyze everything and I mean everything you buy.

Eventually they'd make it so annoying to use the UBI for anything but the most basic purchases, most likely nothing more than buying food and paying for rent.

>>127604511

Cut-off points for welfare results in people not wanting to increase their income because they'll lose their money you melon headed FUCK

>>127596342
The Singularity must be prevented by any means possible.

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>>127604855
>>127604926

well have fun completely decimating your rich when the middle class can barely pay for their own UBI and basically receiving their own money back

nice logical welfare system

no. how about you just do NIT and give money to the poor only...

which makes sense and is actually affordable

>>127596342
>argument against UBI
There is no argument against it. It will happen. The question is how quickly the culling will begin once the plebeians serve no purpose.

>>127605063
Nah, I'll step over your entire unborn family to make sure we achieve it.

>>127605104

If they can barely pay for their own UBI they aren't fucking middle class are they? and if they receive their own money back then it's neither a net positive or a net negative you bungus headed coconut eating CUNT

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You should not soak the poor with other people's money. It's unfair and unproductive. Instead of UBI, basic necessities should be paid for by a consumption tax, not exceeding 20%. Allow the free market to do its thing, but always provide a safety net access to basic needs.

>>127605104
>decimating the rich
>10% fewer rich assholes to make us do stupid human tricks
Spotted the ALEC shill

>>127602870
Free food for illegal beaners

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>>127605312
>It will happen

ya sending welfare checks to billionaires

mr mark zuckerburg wakes up and finds his ubi in the mail box

even though that could have went to a poor person

>>127605407

its a stupid system dude

the rich are going to be paying for the middle class welfare???????????

who dont need it because their lives are fine

the whole point is to help those afflicted by the modern jobs crises AKA THE PEOPLE WITHOUT JOBS

THATS why everyone is supposed to pay into the tax system who isnt poor

your SYSTEM MAKES NO SENSE!!!!

send welfare checks to billionaires and millionaires and just tax them more to cover it!!

how about we keep the taxes as low as possible and not waste money?

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>>127600254
Have you ever learned anything about history ever?
The more power they gain, the more they will take. Hegelian Dialectic.

>>127605501
but if it's impossible to die from being a worthless subhuman then how will we evolve?

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>>127605628
HURRRRR i said dont decimate the rich because we need them in order to keep taxing them to give to the poor and you wont cause them to dissapear

This guy supports UBI which is completely unafforadable and will ruin the country but NIT is actually possible

>>127605063
Yeah no, the global elite already foresee a giant crisis or are already planning one that'll wipeout the majority of the population, it'll be their version of a holy cleansing, a noahs ark of sorts, and then rebuild the world with the help of sentient A.I.

>>127605654
>even though that could have went to a poor person
Drpo in the bucket. Let him receive it so he can feel invested in it, and so marketcucks won't attack it on the basis of poor people are gross mommy.
There's plenty more where that came from, if poor people are legitimately consuming and maintaining rather than stealing and degrading.

>>127604282

You can sit and wait for gibs, try not starve in the process, provided that you are not being fed by someone else already.

The fact that you bring Pinoshit to the debate proves that your argument is weak, will there ever be such a thing like Godwin's Law for El General?

>>127605657
Cuck.

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>>127605935
see what i mean you actually support welfare for the rich

UBI is a cuck system

>so he can feel invested in it,

i dont care what people "feel" like were talking about a trillion dollar system here

you dont just waste it on stuff that isnt necessary when were trying to help people who lost their jobs

>>127605782
No we don't. Your first hurrdurr is in believing that money is a store of value. Only with great difficulty and massive violence is that a function of money. Your second hurrdurr is in believing that money can be created by private banks ex nihilo but for government to do the same is immoral. Your third hurrdurr is in believing that money is even yours to own in the first place, rather than the government's.
>This guy supports UBI which is completely unafforadable and will ruin the country but NIT is actually possible
Shut the fuck up Tom Friedman. No Jews allowed in this thread.

>>127596342
Now I get it, it's been you this whole time who has been pushing this jewniversal basicbitch israelicum bullshit, zuckerkike. Fully fuck off, you fag. You don't deserve to be given any arguments so you can work on jewing your way around them, literally fuck off you fucking kike faggot nigger die die die die die die die die die commie scum die

>>127606128
I support welfare for everyone. You seem to be very attached to this whole notion of dividing and conquering the people against each other. That's what liberal cucks do.

>>127606306
>claims we aren't entitled to our own money and it's defacto the governments
>calls him the jew
wew lad

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>>127606483

ok send mr mark zuckerberg his welfare check and tell me youre not a retard

>welfare for everyone.

well if you werent a retard you would see that welfare for everyone is actually a sin against the poor

because youre devaluing their money

if they could get $20,000 with NIT instead of $5000 every year with UBI then youre actually diong a disservice to the people who you were trying to help

UBI will be WAY less money because you have to pay for UBI for everyone

>>127602590
>fuck reading: the post
if there were only a place to look this info up

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>>127606483
>I support welfare for everyone.
what.. do... you.. think .. a ... liberal... is?

>>127601469
You must be new here

>>127606545
It is the government's. You didn't earn it. You merely took it from someone else who allowed you to have it. You aren't in preschool anymore laddy.
>>127606647
I'll send him my part of it, which is less than a penny.
>well if you werent a retard you would see that welfare for everyone is actually a sin against the poor
>doesn't understand how to divide
>or is pretending not to understand how to divide because bantz

>>127606689
You have no argument you cock sucker.

>futurism link
>ifuckinglovescience pseudo bullshit
pick two

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poor people get $20,000 who really need it in society and were left without a job ( the NIT)

UBI millionaires and billionaires receive $5000 a year an it barely helps the poor at all and they cant live off it

pick one.
>>127606801
>less than a penny

its not less than a penny when youre sending welfare to EVERY PERSON IN THE COUNTRY

>doesn't understand how to divide

YOU DONT UNDERSTAND WHAT A WELFARE SYSTEM IS FOR

ITS TO HELP PEOPLE WHO ACTUALLY NEED IT

>>127605743
All humans die.

Everything dies.

All things die.

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>>127606801
>You merely took it from someone else who allowed you to have it.
like, in a transaction, where I sold something?
If that's not the definition of earning wtf is?

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>>127596342
Watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDkHLPanjkQ

>>127600213
>first, so?
It's an inherently flawed system that can only survive when propped up by an external money supply to leach off of.

Rather than wasting resources on supporting parasitic leeches, it's better to spend less and improve the world by gassing would be ubi recipients instead.

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The NIT is where only a poor person who was left without a job because the modern job crises receives $20,000 a comfortable living because they were in need.

The UBI is where millionaires and billionaires receive $5000 in their mailbox and the poor cant afford shit because its ""universal"" and had to pay for everyone rather than targeting the people who were screwed over by the automated economy.

Nice welfare system UBI cucks.
You didnt think it through too much.

>>127606993
I said MY PART of it. You're intentionally being dense.
Why do you need this to be a welfare system? Your need to pretend that you're muh self-made like Horatio Alger's pedo stories is to be mocked cruelly and viciously.
UBI is a profit-sharing system and a human capital maintenance system.

>>127607055
not me, i never die, for i am the singular individual that is /pol/, the last son of the west

>>127605501
Ideally, resources should go to those who can produce, with perhaps a community system to help local people who have had severe disasters.
If you are poor, you don't get to have kids you can't afford, as other members of society with self-control do not owe welfare to people who don't have time or money to properly raise children.
Gradually this phases out the stupid and lazy people, instead of draining resources that the people with jobs are paying into the system.
Perhaps you have fewer people in the society, but each should be a contributing member. Unfortunately, the establish government would never go for this, as it ends dependence on them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGg0tMszsXQ

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An entire society of NEETS what could possibly go wrong?

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>>127607516
actually youre fucking retarded the whole point anyone brings up UBI is to help those disaffected by the modern job crises

and logically you would help only those who are suffering the consequences of it and not people who are at the top and still profiting

its not a "profit sharing" system

thats not why people talk about UBI

>>127602314
eah inflation is inevitable and its #1 argument against UBI

then gov will have to regulate prices, it will be ugly socialism again like USSR where industry was strong but level of life was shit cause every one would get shitty minimum wage regardless of their performance

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>>127596342
Using the government to seize private property from one individual to then give to another individual is theft and theft is wrong.

This is not to say all taxation is theft. The classical liberals understood government to be instituted for a specific purpose of securing the natural rights of life, liberty and property. Government was to be abolished when it became destructive of these ends. English Common Law had a long history of preventing government from re-distributive practices. Any taxation done by government must be taxation that furthers the purpose of government. Government does not have a carte blanche to tax however they please.

>>127607736
>muh retarted
Shut the fuck up, burger. UBI is to help those disaffected by the job market. The way to do that in such a way that rich assholes won't whine is to give that money out to everyone. On net, the rich would be paying more in taxes than they would receive. On net, the poor would receive more than they would be paying in taxes.
>and logically you would help only those who are suffering the consequences of it and not people who are at the top and still profiting
Why, so that you have a use for your MSW degree to sit and judge people? Drink bleach, burger, and learn to think more than half a move ahead.

UBI is dead in the water, and forever will be. A universal job is the only compromise that has any chance of getting put into action.

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>>127607924
until the wealthy acquired all the wealth of the world and you cant do anything anymore

if you want rich people to forever live in their enclaves and the poor kept in poverty then you see the problem

>>127608101
see>>127607490

youre not helping those dissaffected youre helping the upper middle class and the middle class and the rich and the wealthy

and youre paying out a lot less to the poor because you want to satisfy a billionaire

it makes no sense.

you drink some bleach you cuck

>>127608107
You're more interested in having everyone under the thumb of some feudal lord than in distributing work fairly.
You have to go back.

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>>127607693
>>127607425
these guys get it

>>127608303
>helping
ON NET.
You seem to be paid to not understand ON NET. You seem to be paid not to understand the differential taxation that "pays for" the UBI doesn't help them ON NET. You seem to be paid to completely disregard politics and sociology for muh vidya score.
Or are you just trolling?
>looks at URL bar
oh

>>127608327

It's not about what i'm interested in, you're just never going to sell unconditional gibs to the public in a lot of countries, especially the US. Having people produce some form of work in exchange for the welfare is the only way to make it palatable to most people.

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>>127608670
millions of people paying for their own UBI in the middle class means that its wasted money that could have been used to actually help the poor

you might as well tell them to put 20% of their income in a retirement account

it doesnt make any sense the whole point is to help the disaffected but youre just giving it back to the middle class and the rich

??????????????????????

a billionaire paying for his own UBI is LESS TAX THAT COULD HAVE BEEN USED TO HELP AN ENTIRE POOR PERSON

YOU DONT JUST KEEP RAISING THE TAXES TO PAY FOR IT ALL, THATS NOT HOW IT WORKS EVENTUALLY IT GETS TOO HIGH

>>127608754
UBI works best when combined with a job guarantee, where the currency issuer pays anyone who is able and willing to work, to go do something useful. The Conservation Corps and the Works Progress Administration are two precedents in American history for doing just this.
Americans will learn or they'll starve on their knees.
>>127609044
Money isn't scarce you liberal cuck. It's just inadequately distributed.
You're trying very hard to not understand second-order effects. You must be American.

Universal income in America:

>cut all welfare and hand them a check
>blacks immediately go full chimp with the rent money
>drugs, strippers, alcohol, bananas
>all gone within 2 days.
>"who's gonna feed my kids now"
>"this is the whites fault Cuz we didn't get no more welfareit's systemic racism to ask us to balance our own checkbook"
>homeless black population skyrockets

We need to add reparations to these months checks senpai

>>127596342
If I gave everyone $5 did I mike everyone richer, or did I just keep everyone at the same place?
With the added UBI checks landlords will know their tenants now have an extra income and they'll know the exact amount of that income, so they'll raise prices accordingly. Same thing will happen with car loans, mortgages, monthly bills and other shit like that, also products and services.
You've changed nothing. Even fucking communist/socialist redistribution of wealth schemes make more sense than UBI and that's saying something.

>>127609377
Those people can be taken out on a case-by-case basis and literally nothing of value will be lost.

ask yourself why they won't simply raise welfare and make it more unconditional, and why they want UBI instead

>>127609559
Which people? The landowners and producers?
Have fun living in a world of leeches who don't produce anything.
Or do you mean we can rid ourselves of the leeches?
Because that I can get behind.

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>>127609283
>It's just inadequately distributed.

i agree and the poor need it the most

and your system will barely help the poor because you have to pay for UBI for everyone universally

and not just the poor

so you will never help reclaim the proper distribution of wealth

>>127609559
>muh galt's gulch
>muh indispensable rentiers
They're absolutely replaceable, and will be unless they remember that our recognition of their muh exclusive rights is contingent upon their provision of services to people.
>>127609843
ON NET you nigger. Are you not recognizing ON NET because you're too dumb or are you just /bant/ing?

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>>127610306
ON NET to pay for more middle class and wealthy welfare

its not helping the wealth distribution if you just give it back to the people doing fine who still have jobs

>>127610633
In what fantasy world are you pretending that progressive taxation doesn't exist?

>>127610306
Yes. The people who create value are dispensable, while the people who need a UBI to survive are important for the furthering of humanity. Really makes sense.

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>>127610810
progressive taxation is even better when you actually use it to help poor people who cant get a job

but instead you want to send mark zuckerberg his welfare check as he walks to his mailbox to collect it in his bath robe to keep him happy like a good little cuck you are

not realizing that youre taking money away from the poor

and i know you think you can keep raising the taxes for ever to pay for it but thats not how it works

>>127610907
>create value
Numbers are not value. Most of your muh value creators are just useless overseers and gatekeepers. That is, liberals. That is, dispensable.
I smell class interest.
>>127611293
You're living in your own little fantasy world. Have a good fap then come back and argue honestly.

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>>127611442
UBI 5000$ for billionaires

NIT 20,000$ for poor jobless

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>>127611442
>goods aren't value
>land doesn't have value
Commie fuck.

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Look at yourself, you could do everything you want if you put your back into it but instead you're sitting there browsing 4chan like a jellyfish. Why are you none of the things you dreamed to be as a child.
Basic income will not change that, it might even make that worse.

>>127608303
i dont think you understand how money works

>>127611515
>NIT 20,000$ for poor jobless
Is the $15000 worth all the political drama and inability to depend on it that comes with? Maybe to a liberal who gets off on using their MSW degree to create a class of wheat and a class of chaff.
>>127611640
Land has value. Ownership does not.
Feudalist cuck.

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>>127612145
"political drama"

i really really dont care its about helping the people who were left without a job

face it youre a mark zuckerberg of the world who wants welfare for the rich

youre still not getting it

>>127605862
THEY ARE SELLING UBI SO THE PUBLIC ALLOWS THE ROBOTS TO TAKE OVER. ONCE ROBOTS ARE IN PLACE, LITERALLY EVERYWHERE, THE ELITES WHO PROGRAMMED THEM WILL HAVE THEM KILL OFF THE MASSES. THEY WILL THEN REPOPULATE EARTH WITH THEIR BLOODLINES.

>>127612145
If I own the land I have the value that's in the land and the utility of the land.
You don't think utility has value? Have you even read Marx?

>>127612387
REALLY MAKES YOU THINK

>>127612333
In other words, you're not interested in helping the poor. You're interested in virtue signalling.

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>>127612683
how am i the one not helping the poor?

UBI $3000 for everybody
NIT $20,000 for the disaffected

sounds to me like you want the poor to live in complete poverty

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>>127596342
>give me one argument against UBI
Where dose the money come from?

>>127612592
Utility has value. Private ownership of the means of creating that utility does not.
>>127612806
You're creating a program that will be contingent on the ongoing consent of the billionaires. Welfare per se is and has always been contingent on the consent of the billionaires.
Sounds to me like you're not addressing any of my points. Sounds to me like you simply want to preserve the status quo.
>>127612839
The sovereign issuer of the currency.

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>>127607055

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>>127613184
billionaires will still complain about their higher taxes than everybody else

your argument makes no sense

unless you offered a flat tax then they would complain forever no matter what

you think giving them a tiny bit back is going to change their opinion?

what the fuck?

>>127613385
The life is only everlasting if it is seen to it that it is.

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>>127613184
>The sovereign issuer of the currency.
Are you talking about printing money, that just leads to runaway inflation.

>>127613184
The ability to utilize something has no value? It's mine so I can use it. It's not yours so you can't unless I allow you to.
I am in control of the value and as such I have the value.
Seriously, have you read Marx?

> free money
> working economic system

like every time, you'll have to pick one

>>127596342
This guy fell for the robot communism meme

Making it more profitable to be a lazy piece of shit who plays video games and smokes weed all day sounds like a pretty retarded idea desu

>>127613460
Let them complain. The point is to help the disaffected. They get their profit sharing bux just like everyone else so they're probably not going to attack that directly without a shitshow.
>leddit spacing
Bu yao. Go back.
>>127613785
Why yes I am. AND I'm talking about taxation that destroys excess money. Both are constitutional powers under the coinage clause:
>The Congress shall have Power To...coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin...
Pro tip: taxes are independent of spending. It is only the rich who benefit from fiat acting like gold who gain from it.

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>>127614392
until they find out that theyre paying more than everybody else

ur an idiot and youre wrong and your advocating a shit system

fuck off

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>>127614392
So you want to print money then destroy that money and you think this is somehow a solution?

>>127613902
The ability to restrict others from utilizing something has no value.
>mine
No such thing. Ownership is just a social agreement.
>I am in control of the value and as such I have the value.
Until such time as we say you don't. The only thing backing your ownership is the just consent of the governed. Without that, you're a thief who can be dispensed with.
Seriously, have you read Marx?

>>127596342
Yes lets increase the welfare state. Leave it to the jews.

>>127609044
Fuck the poor. Either by poor choices or poor luck, nature has always weeded out the unfortunate since the single cells ruled. UBI or NIT or any other form of propping up the weak is against evolution. Struggle, hard work, good choices, lots of luck, and so forth have always driven biological evolution toward advanced complexity. Don't feed the animals.

What will the solution be once automation puts most people out of work?

Is UBI the only answer?

>>127614917
I agree. Imagine if we insisted on saving the neanderthals back in the day, we'd have a bunch of retards running around.

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>>127614917
>he unfortunate since the single cells ruled.

alright get in line bro youre first

ill make you unfortunate real quick

>>127614671
>Until such time as we say you don't.
So you agree then, that I have the value. Thanks! I guess maybe you have read him.
And it's not consent that makes it mine. It's the fact that I have it and you don't. Ownership could exist without any governed so long as I have it and you don't and I protect it as mine.
>Without that, you're a thief
A thief who owns the property.

>>127614392
please watch

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EobPnLZiOo8

>>127614573
They already know that.
You're a blathering teenage troll who can't math. Kill yourself.
>>127614917
Keep saying that. Eventually the Chinese will overrun and eliminate your social Darwinist asses, and all the group narcissism in the world and war toys that play like vidya won't save you.
>>127615570
>have
Ownership is a meme that can't exist without government. Only possession, which is contingent upon people around you tolerating your exclusion, can exist in the absence of recognition.
>>127615936
No. Make your own arguments.

>>127615089
If I don't foresee the change and the correct thing to prepare, then so be it. I am not worthy. If I do make the correct choices or get lucky and strike it rich, then so let that be as well. So it has been through the ages, unless you believe in God, then I could at least comprehend your argument about helping the poor.

ubi = foodstamps?

>>127596342
isn't UBI like a soft form of communism?

>>127616237
Printing money leads to hyperinflation and kills the economy, it happened in Germany in the 30's, Hungary in the 40's and most recently in Zimbabwe. Your plan won't work and we have real life example of why.

>>127616237
If the Chinese do come up with a more successful system, then I wish them well in their continued survival and propogation. Ni Hao bitches!

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>>127616263
god exists whether you like it or not and youre still doing something wrong for having these opinions

just because youre an atheist doesnt mean righteousness disappears it only disappears from your head and youre a living criminal in your logic

>>127604821
Jesus Christ, that was the subtlest, noicest demolition of a kike I've ever seen. Also illustrating the way Jews use language to wriggle out of discussions.

Remember kids, debating kikes is an exercise in futility, as they'll lie constantly and disengage the moment continuing to talk would expose them for what they really are. Which is slimy rat bastard spawn of a satanic hog.

>>127616237
>Ownership is a meme that can't exist without government.
Fundamentally flawed statement. I don't need a government to own something. Exclusive possession is the same as ownership in the absence of a government.
>contingent upon people around you tolerating your exclusion
Wrong again. They don't have to tolerate my exclusion, they have to be helpless to do anything about it.
Like a lion pride that owns its territory. When another pride encroaches the owning pride is either able to defend its territory or loses it.

I thought the jews were more about the shekels so you goys are nat soc?

>>127616859
Ahh, a christcuck. Now I understand where you are angling from.

>>Ahh, a christcuck. Now I understand where you >>are angling from.
spoken like a true jew

>>127616702
>Printing money leads to hyperinflation and kills the economy
You're pretending taxation doesn't destroy money. You're pretending taxation doesn't exist at all! What causes inflation is a simple oversupply of money chasing too few goods. That's what taxation is for!
>>127617026
You need an authority of some sort to recognize and protect your ownership, and to defend threats against it. Otherwise it's just a taking, subject to any challenges that other people might wish to raise against it
.>Wrong again. They don't have to tolerate my exclusion, they have to be helpless to do anything about it.
Point taken. Do you really think you can take on a million people who want you dead?
>lion pride
That's communism!

>>127617605
A Jew? Sadly no. Or I wouldn't have to sorry about the future because I would be one of god's chosen.

If you can't find a job or can't contribute to the economy then you should just die. Your genes are not worth spreading. UBI is just going to dirty the gene pool

>>127618449
Keep saying that. Eventually the Chinese will overrun and eliminate your social Darwinist asses, and all the group narcissism in the world and war toys that play like vidya won't save you.

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>>127617692
Taxation doesn't destroy money, that money is spent by the government. Printing money increases the supply of money causing it's value to go down. I think you need to study economics some more.

>>127617692
>You need an authority of some sort to recognize and protect your ownership, and to defend threats against it.
I am the authority who recognizes and protects my ownership, and just like the lion pride, others accept my ownership based on my ability to protect it.
>lion pride is communism
Who cares? I was using it to illustrate a point about ownership being dependent upon the claim of ownership and the ability to assert that claim of ownership. Even a communist country would have ownership of its property in relation to other governments, and that ownership is dependent upon the same factors that my individual ownership in a state of nature is dependent upon, i.e. the claim of ownership and ability to assert that claim.
>Point taken. Do you really think you can take on a million people who want you dead?
No, I don't. However I do recognize that if they are able to take it from me they will be the ones who then own it. People have been stealing property since the dawn of man. Countries have been stealing property since the start of civilization. That doesn't weaken my position.

>>127596342
By the time UBI gets passed by congress, UBI will be the least of our worries, let's just put it that way.

>>127596342
The burden of proof lies on the one who proposes a change in the status quo.
You can't just come in here and demand arguments against handing out free money.
Your sense of entitlement is monstrous, and anything you say should be rejected out of hand based upon that fact.

>>127618449
Ubi plus eugenics is the future. I hope.

>>127618684
>Taxation doesn't destroy money, that money is spent by the government
If that were true, there would be no need for paygo laws and there would be no public debt let alone a growing one. Taxation does destroy money. It's only a custom that taxes collected "authorize" spending and that there is a pretended closed-loop relationship.
You should brush up on your double-entry accounting.

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>>127619531

>>127611725
based alg*rian

>>127604511
Part of the point of UBI being Universal is to remove the negative stigma of receiving welfare. If everyone gets it, then no one's ashamed of it.

More importantly, it leads to better working conditions. Right now, many people are trapped in shitty jobs they hate because it's either that or starve. UBI gives workers more bargaining power because if the job is intolerable, people can always leave and have the UBI to fall back on.

>>127620343
This burger gets it.
>>127604511
This burger is deeply invested in the stigma of welfare.

>>127620343
"stigmas" dont matter when youre talking about trillions of dollars of extra costs

i dont care how UBI makes you "feel" i care about helping the jobless

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>>127596342
>The AI gets rid of PC related jobs
>neural network AI get rid of physical labor
>ZUCC gives us all free gibs
>we can now spend our time towards science
>but we all know that instead it will be spent on our own decadence

feels sorta good, kinda bad

>>127612387
wtf i love ubi now?
most of the masses are utter shite
even most huwaites, so cucked, so brainwashed by jew media and jew education ministry, makes me fucking rage
but to the victor goes the spoils
kikes were effective at subverting whites, sadly via america directly, may everything burn for the white failure to recognize the jew, but then again what else was (((cuckstainity))) good for besides indoctrinating europeans with jewish fairy tales?

>>127621112
No you don't. You care about your position in judging the worthiness of others, or you'd know to give a little to get a lot.

>>127620343
The lack of a stigma is part of the problem already. They made faux debit cards to give them instead of actual food stamps to remove the stigma. They let them but dominos pizza and KFC to remove the stigma.
People should feel like shit for being on welfare. It would motivate them to get off it and make kids growing up on it realize it isn't okay to be on it forever. We need more public shaming across the board, not less.

>>127617605
>coming from the guy who's national icon is an appropriation of an anti-jidf meme, complete with the semitic hooknose, and is himself a literal (((criminal))) (((anglo)))
cor blimey, lad

>>127621944
>People should feel like shit for being on welfare. It would motivate them to get off it
People should have the shit beaten out of them for imposing their idiotic Protestant slave ethic on other people. You are aware that the only reason you're still alive is because there's too much paperwork involved in changing that state of affairs?

>>127622154
>PMW
the fuck even is this and where the fuck did you wander here from you gigantic fucking faggot

>>127622815
>bash the fash!
eric clanton spotted
you looking forward to getting your ass destroyed for years on end, kike scum?

>>127596342

Futurism is just more jew lies.

>>127622815
>You are aware that the only reason you're still alive is because there's too much paperwork involved in changing that state of affairs?
Fucking triggered, eh?
It was too much getting BTFOed about property and being called out for being a fucking a leech I guess.
I think my Beretta would do a fine job keeping me alive, faggot.
You're the one with the slave ethic, cuck.
>it's so unfair that other people have more than me, they should give it to me because I'm too weak to get it myself. I can't get ahead in society the way it is so someone should change it to a society where no one gets ahead
Fucking kek you are pathetic.

>>127623132
I don't even own a bike lock.
>>127624059
A little.
The strong should fear the weak.

In regards to property rights and ownership, one just has to look at a real-world practical example of a society collapsing. Namely, the collapse of the Somalian government. After it's downfall you didn't see the land and resources automatically cease to have rightful claims over them, but rather individuals looked to ancient codified laws, and hired private security forces to enforce claims. With that, throwing out the theory that a central government is needed to recognize your 'property' as legitimate.
Empirical evidence is always going to thwart wrong headed theories about how individuals will act in nature.

>>127624361
So strengthen yourself in body and mind and stop being afraid.

>>127625168
you're trying to reason with a literal brainlet/shill

>>127625168
He's going to get beat down regardless if he ever fucks around in my territory.

>>127625332
Ruining a smug, pretentious, uppity commie's day is good wholesome fun. They pretend they're so fucking smart thanks to the four books they've ever read. My cousin is just like that and I put him in his place every chance I get not to change his mind, but to ruin his day.