>CHRISTFAGS What are the best arguments for theism? I am

>>127566320
if the universe has infinite time, doesnt it stand that in a gazillion years all the atoms of this universe will reform in the exact same pattern it was created from? Think about it.....infinite time..... Either we are immortal of there is an afterlife

>>127566320
What determines the laws of the universe? The universe is farrrr too finely tuned for there not have been an intelligent designer


Plancks constant is too precise...if that was off by even the slightest amount, life would not exist

>>127566893

Afterlife (heaven) seems like a weak argument. What else you got?

>>127566320
>What are the best arguments for theism?
these digits

>>127566320
>to accept and preserve my Anglo/western culture.
You mean your jewish culture?

>>127566320
How come Christians are the most universally hated even though the Catholic church is the largest charity in the world? I'll admit there is bad that comes from Christianity in general, but if it did not exist, the world would be a much darker place.

The amount of hate we recieve seems almost insane at times. Muh le crusades meme applies here. But why is this?

If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first.

>>127567061

This is better. I frequently get the feeling of what the fuck why does all this shit exist when I'm just driving to work etc, the universe existing confuses me.

I am open to these arguments about the logic in there being a creator, it doesn't have to be literal to the bible. It doesn't need to be a sky magician in the sky, the argument you just made about this thing we live in being so finely tuned is a good one.

>>127566320

>im open
>isolates one specific faith

Truly a superior mind.

>>127567256

My Anglo culture, I don't know what shamanistic shit your culture believe Jamal.

>>127567256
Here we go, thread is over.

>>127567407

Nice reading comprehension. I said I'm open to the idea of a creator, I don't believe any religious text is legitimate.

But if I believe in a god and want to join a community why the fuck would I pick Islam?? I'm not an americuck begging for more Arab penis up my anus.

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>>127566893
>>127567061
>I'm too retarded to understand to know how the universe works, therefore an imaginary skydaddy created everything and a fairytale book is true

>>127567384
Agreed, athiests and agnostics are retarded when it comes to this, "Well it just happened!!!" - hmmm sounds like what a lot of religious people use to justify the bible instead of investigating it....something they seem to be very fond of criticising religious people for.

I can see the arguments for deism, but a particular religion is based on a leap of faith

>>127567682
Point out where he is wrong and you know better.

>>127567682
Huehue my imaginary skydaddy meme


You realise you literally have nothing else to use, so you fall back on ad hominems?

Whats causing you to be so angry brother?

>>127567502
Your anglo culture was destroyed by Christianity. What you're saying is no different than in 100 years when Islam replaces Christianity your kids will be saying "islam is anglo culture we must defend our anglo islamic values".

>>127567061
Not these meme again

>>127567791
I don't know better. That's the whole point. But just because humanity has not advanced to the point of fully understanding the universe doesn't mean I'm going to believe in a fairytale from 2,000 years ago.
You're the one who is claiming there is an imaginary skydaddy. Then prove it. If you can't then you're like a child believing in santa claus, the tooth fairy, or the easter bunny

>>127566893
Bad argument.

>>127566320

Ps19:1-4
The heavens declare the glory of God;
the skies proclaim the work of his hands.
2 Day after day they pour forth speech;
night after night they display knowledge.
3 There is no speech or language
where their voice is not heard.
4 Their voice goes out into all the earth,
their words to the ends of the world.

if you haven't already done so, read up on Thomas Aquinas' five ways to prove God's existence.

believe in a fear of the almighty. The most highly intelligent can see you

>>127567970
get outa here geert, your country is one of the most cucked in the EU. You accepted Protestantism which is the weakest form of Christianity and has now lead you to nihilist athiesm. Good luck with being dominated by Muslims and being outbred while your childfree *empowered* women live up the rest of their miserable existance in shallow materialism. You make me ashamed to be dutch.

no those stories were most likely manipulated or are metaphors

>>127567367
>How come Christians are the most universally hated
Nah

Stuff that's more hated than Christianity/Catholicism-

Niggers
Islam
Burgers
Coalburners
Kikes

>>127568026
Noone is saying its the Christian god fool, but just arguments for deism and intelligent design. Do you even read the OP? You cherry picking fedoras make me fucking sick

>>127568138
How is that a bad argument? Doesnt that stand that if we die and there is no afterlife the atoms of our universe will eventually realign at some point?

>>127567858
Except Christianity is objectively better than the child-sacrificing barbarian culture of the Britons.

The same can't be said for a transition from Christendom to Islamism

>>127567656

Seems like an awful lot of mad for an enlightened person. Sad.

>>127568026

Go listen to some Jordan B Peterson if you are actually interested in this. Posting atheist memes on 4chan is lame.

Every religious text all seem to be an attempt to explain the same thing.

The "hurrdurr the bible says this specific thing and that's retarded pfpfpfff" is lame.

There are many religious scientists, they may not identify with any particular religion but they can't ignore the arguments for creationism.

The skydaddy meme is fucking gay, get something better.

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>>127567752
I've noticed atheists try and make religion sound dumb by dumbing it down like "i dont believe in a sky wizard" or "i don't believe in a imaginary friend"

>>127566320

You looking for logic arguments?
Aristotle, Thomas Aquinas, Godel theorem, Descartes, Anselm ontological argument,Averroes philosophy and many many more.

The best way to accept or believe in my opinion is looking for testimonies of converted people.
People that from miserable situations are picked up and saved.

I'm Italian and youtube is full of this kind of things, a incredible story in the one of Nuovi orizzonti of Chiara Amirante.

>>127568506
>>127567844
>>127567682
#roasted

>>127568196

This is what I'm after. Thanks.

>>127566320
Christianity dominates for a reason. It's the truth. Every religion has some sort of salvation. Why did Christianity exploded all over the world like it did? My guess is that Jesus was who he said he was and really did do those miracles. Otherwise we wouldn't be talking about it today.

>>127568575
Exactly this, its essentially a form of shaming someones intellect that you disagree with, which is a very effective technique for winning arguments (read: women)

>>127568627
God bless you based spaghetti man

>>127568771
>>127568771
Aww who hurt you anon?

>>127568391
>but just arguments for deism and intelligent design
aka just because I'm too stupid to know how the universe works I'm going to believe something in which there is 0 evidence for.
>>127568475
Not really. Christianity was basically the same thing, so they had to reform it, which lead to its destruction, which is why Christianity seems better today.
>>127568765
>Why did Christianity exploded all over the world like it did?
Same reason Islam did.

>>127569038
Pacifist Church grows and takes over the roman empire despite being heavily persecuted.

Uhmmm try again sweetie.

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>>127566320
Haha, people often argue in circles and get nowhere cuz all they care about is winning the argument. When you see these 'stories' just remember that allegory and type point to truth. You can make an act of faith and ask for the gift of the Spirit, but that would only mean the beginning of a journey, not instant gratification. If you're looking for someone to save you against your will, well, that's not how it works.

>>127568462
The universe had a beginning so we have at least one "half" of infinity gone.

Would the atoms that make me really be me though? Would my same ego exist as me again? If so then what sustained the ego?

>>127569038
Christianity was at a time a child-sacrificing religion??

>>127569197
Seeing as the old testament is the first half of the bible yes

>>127567207
God is dead

>>127568575
I hope you're either trolling or underage b&. Low IQ people people will not bother with the process of reading about the actual facts, so they just go on about in believing it must be designed or another excuse to justify their mediocrity.

>>127566320

https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/125637346/

Now stop being a heretic

>>127569038
>same reason Islam did
Um no. Islam did it through force. Christianity did it through preaching

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You don't necessarily have to be a Christian, only a believer that something greater than you is responsible for your existence.

The majority of religions believe in reincarnation, including Christianity at one point; however, during one biblical draft, it was felt that it's easier to control people by saying "Give us money and behave yourselves or you'll suffer forever" rather than believing that you will have more than one chance at life. So, rebirth was only given to Jesus and was apparently denied to the rest of us as a result of this change. It was never meant to be that way.

Research children who remember their past lives. You can explain away some of them; the rest are just shocking. Kids speaking vividly of places they've never been from the moment they could talk. Historical records dug up proving everything they said is true. Older surviving family members who can vouch for the fact that yes, we had a specific breed of dog with a specific name who died of a specific illness mentioned by the child, and remembering the death of the family member who this child is claiming to be.

The thing in common with all of these cases is that they remember seeing a man who gave them a choice to come back to earth to live again, or not, and they all chose to return. They all speak of the same afterlife.

To think we're only here once, now, by accident, never to be again, is naive. You cannot deny something that you are not yet able to prove; you can only go with your best estimation and choose to believe or not.

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>>127569683
Christianity did it through force as well. One example is Constantine adopted christianity as the roman empires state religion and spread christianity though conquest and by the sword because he had a dream in which Jesus came to him and told him to do it.
This is just one of many examples though

>>127569877
Oh of course. No doubt. But I'm saying overall it is much more peaceful than Islam

>>127568627
Do you have many protestants in Italy?

>>127567367
BWAHAHAHAH
>Catholic Church
The greatest terrorists in history. Hitch once said that if you lived a few hundred years ago as a right thinking man you'd oppose the Holy Sea. So true. All religion is bullshit. The ONLY question with relevance, as OP alludes to, is, Is the Christian life the BEST LIFE?

>>127569804
This is total bullshit. All of it.

Youre on crack.

>>127567384
Read the Bible.
TLDR-There is no god

>>127569197
>>127569115
Make sure to double check these sort of quotes you hear. One of the reasons I stopped being an atheist was because almost all of them would spew lies about Christianity even though they considered themselves to heralds of truth and reason.

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>>127569197
The Israelites started sacrificing to a golden calf and gave their child to pass threw the fire because God warned Solomon not deal with the gentile woman because eventually he will begin to fall to the other gods.

>>127566320
You can look at it this way, even if it's all bullshit the overall values and wisdom you can obtain from the stories are good things to have.

>>127568196
and while you're there, eat a bag of dicks like a total poofter. Fuck off you dense cunt.

>>127570884
The best life is living on a farm with your books and you don't need to be a christcuck to do that.

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>>127571023
Hahaha
Solomon was David's son... and lived a looong time after the rebellion during the exodus from Egypt. He did end up killing some of his kids by worshipping his wives gods, tho.
You guys are too funny.

>>127570844
no, but lately I'm seeing some evangelical "church" here and there, nothing major.

>>127571214
Typical Australian trash, replies with the crap fed to him from other so-called "intellectuals". Don't you have to pay half your salary in taxes to Abos you bogan fuck?

>>127566320
If you're not willing to believe in the acts upon which helped create the faith then you should probably convert to Islam as they have those types of people too.

>>127569038
Why didn't Jesus tell his followers not to rape children?
LOL - cos he likes raping kids!!!
Fuck off - Xanity is a lie.

>>127571505
flag. Coon detected.

>>127567061
>.if that was off by even the slightest amount, life would not exist

you've got it ass backwards.

And how do you know life would not exist? Prove that a different form of life couldn't exist if it was different

>>127570884

I like Hitchens too, and Christopher is infinitely better than Cuck Peter.

I have also seen many of his debates of him destroying religious people. However, I was always disappointed that the debates were always too specific to certain religions.

As In, he never really debated against creationism he instead debated against specific religions and there texts.

As I said, even if I chose to go to church it wouldn't be because I believe the bible, I believe all texts are flawed and believing them literal is stupid.

But as mentioned above, there are strong arguments for creationism that have nothing to do with specific religions.

>Then why choose to be Christian or identify with any religion?

If I can believe in a god then I'd purposely choose Christianity as my culture is based on it, in terms of the belief part I could easily choose any other religion but why? Why choose another instead of the one that my ancestors believed and which the culture I grew up within in based upon?

I don't need to believe in all the stories as literal as long as the core belief is there.

>>127566320
The important part is that god created the heaven and earth. Reality is statistical and probabilistic.
There are multiple future possible outcomes.
Intent modifies future probability. So prayer is valid and as as been shown in studies works.
Beyond that it is an effective in-group organizational structure for fighting other out -groups. A faithful people we defeat a faithless one. So if you're white become a racist christian.

>>127572065
>However, I was always disappointed that the debates were always too specific to certain religions.
Fuck me drunk, cunt. He debated Xns, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Mormons, JWs... are you crying because he didn't take on a Bai Hai? Time to face the facts. You are a simpleton. Try and grow a set of gonads. "You'll be better off!"

>>127566320

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF WHY IS EVERYONE SO FUCKING STUPID??????

THE FUCKING STORIES ARE PARABLES THAT ARE MEANT TO TEACH PEOPLE LESSONS ON HOW TO LIVE LIFE!

REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>127566320
joining a religion is sort of like accepting a required
stupidity. unless you yourself have something that
validates this stupidity, don't attend church.

by stupidity i don't mean theists are stupid,
i mean that the real goal of their belief is uniting
a group of people. and you cannot unify a group
of people if there's too much individualism.

with the arise of individualism, free thought and
"your own rights" (which actually would not exist
were you not a part of your group, your country,
and the "acceptance of giving up your individuality"
in a country - is obviously the countries laws) these
religions have weakened in power. -
here comes food for thought, if religion does not
control you, what else does? certainly at all times,
if you are living in a safe environment and are
doing work for it, you are under a sort of group,
this group holds something you need - either it be
the destruction of a common enemy or the more
common which is just providing safety and a
living place, a place for raising a further family.

if religion is taken away, you are now in the hands
of companies and so on. this is also why it is
beneficial for globalist to destroy religion.

in that - if you become religious - what value does
this group have to you? how does it help you?
what makes it worth your participation and your
time? with that, i've stated my reasoning and
argument for religion and what it is at core, how it
is not so different from other, any, groups.

My answer: If it makes you feel better do it. AS people come of age and you realize you will die someday, it is there to support you.
PS CHURCH IS A GREAT PLACE TO MEET WOMEN!!!

>>127572065
I never understood the intellectual approach of the unchurched since this is the only life I've ever known, but I don't see how choosing a faith you don't believe in for purely material reasons is going to work. We're not in the Body for a simple set of rules, but fulfilment and life. If you ever do accept the gift of faith that your ancestors had, the Kerygma is one baptism / the forgiveness of sins through Jesus, son of the Father; Who dwell within us (this is the holy Spirit) and when all is subject to Him, the resurrection of all life from the dead.

>>127566320

>I am possibly interested in attending church, I can't make myself believe the stories in the bible as fact (some christfags get retarded with this).

The bible should not be taken literally. You're not supposed to believe that the tree of knowledge was real. The chapters are written by human witnesses and prophets, so they reflect their own biases and limits. Things that would have killed the whole tribe (sex before marriage, homosexuality) now are less dangerous.

You go to Mass to perform the Holy Communion. But you also get to hear arguments and point of views of the local priest. It's an interesting experience.

>>127572738
>THE FUCKING STORIES ARE PARABLES
"The secret of the kingdom of god has been given to you, but to those outside, everything is in parables."
Jesus didn't want the masses to understand his stories. But wait, what if the people telling the story of Jesus put those words in his mouth? When Jesus told the story of The Good Samaritan, no one asked, "Wait J-banger, was that a REAL story or did you just make that up?"
Of course they didn't.
Why?
Because the story of Jesus is a parable.

Science doesn't tell you what to do. Just tells you how shit works. Without Christianity you're going to go around killing everyone with science.

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>>127567384
The universe shouldn't exist. Subatomic particles, even this 3D environment (space itself) shouldn't exist, nothing should exist only a formless void with nobody around to miss it. Yet here we are made in his image.

Gaytheists and Fagnostics BTFO

>>127568575
It's their version of intelligence shaming with the implication that they are somehow smarter without even realizing the holes in their creation story.

>>127573557

Maybe he didn't perform miracles and was leading the resistance against the Romans. But it's unlikely that he was made up.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus

> The Roman historian Tacitus, in his Annals (written ca. AD 116) referred both to 'Christus' and his execution by Pontius Pilate. The very negative tone of Tacitus' comments on Christians make the passage extremely unlikely to have been forged by a Christian scribe.

>>127574077
Jesus fucking HBANGER
THANKS for your referral to Wikipedia.
kys

>>127572834
The best is a mix of individualism and collectivism.
In other words fascism. Christianity works good with fascism. White christian fascism. The USA is
Was founded as a white supremacist fascist national socialist nation, and it it's the greatest nation ever.

>>127574077
Italy
The home of race mixing.
....Found the homo

>>127566320
What are the best arguments for theism?

The degerancy of modern western society with no god.

>>127573939
True. If there is no consciousness to resolve uncertainty than everything remains in an indeterminate state.

>>127566320
stay the fuck out of the assembly if you're just going to be some theist faggot

>>127567367
>Catholic
>Christian
pick one

>>127566320
I believe in Christ like I believe in the sun. Not because I can see it, but because by it, I can see everything.

Follow your own path. No one can convince you of anything but yourself. Question every thing and investigate for yourself. You have the Internet at your hands but instead you turn to a place where 98% of the people have no idea what they are talking about.

Try to borrow a book that doesn't exist. If there is nothing which has eternal existence, yet existence has to be borrowed, how could anything exist? All life is dependent, yet dependent on nothing? That can't be. And if that can't be, then there must be something which exists independently, without a dependency on anything else.

>>127569276
The OT doesn't condone child sacrifice though, only animal and material sacrifice.

>>127574276

Your arguments are so persuasive.


>>127566320

> HOWEVER I am open to theist arguments for GOD, should I see some reasonable arguments for theism I would be happy to attend church to accept and preserve my Anglo/western culture.

We don't know. No one knows. Science tells you how, not why. Scientific theories describe models, not reality. We are chained by our senses and cognitive abilities. If there's a God, we could not even comprehend it. No way to explain.

Semitic religions require you to take a 'leap of faith'. But you don't necessarily need to do that. Being agnostic is the most intellectually honest position.

>>127569276
No, sacrifices were of sheep (only the best of your herd) and other material things. Since the crucifixion of Christ (the lamb), no further sacrifices are needed.

If you live your life without making sacrifices and denying yourself things, you'll get nowhere.

>>127574763
The catholics were strong against communism for
a very long time. Until Vatican 2. Catholicism goes good with fascism too.

>>127566320

The cosmological argument

https://m.youtube.com/watch?list=PL1mr9ZTZb3TVaeZAtP70U5Co5WOirhinQ&v=s2ULF5WixMM

Also check out the teleological argument, ontological argument and quantum god playlist from this guy.

Read the C. S. Lewis book Mere Christianity, excellent for how we can come to reason that God exists.

>>127566320

Believe the stories, anon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnjzJdDlaqo

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Just a reminder that protestantism is anti-christian. It is better to be agnostic/athiest than to be a protestant, for those who reject the body of christ with full knowledge have less grace than those who unknowingly reject him

>>127566320
>>125637346

>>127574343
yes, but individualism is superficial and completely
based on what are the laws of your community

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>>127569877

>>127569877
>Constantinople
Remember the latin massacre

>>127566320
>taking the bible literally

You're just too retarded to read between the lines.

>>127575444

In the Old scriptures God asks Abraham to sacrifice his son Isaac to test his loyalty. Then a messenger from God interrupts his ritual. Abraham sees a ram and sacrifices that animal instead.

My guess is that BEFORE Judaism, the local tribes performed human sacrifices. This passage basically tells you that God allows you to offer animals as a proxy for far greater sacrifices.

>>127566320
Start by understanding the metaphors in the bible describe the best way to live. So act as if there is a God and Jesus. Once you're LARPing as a Christian, just stop LARPing and actually be one. Also Catholic is the best.

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>>127575763
>mfw I go to a place if worship that uses a sugar cookie waffer.

Not that it sways the reason I attend different Churches or anything. The Catholic Church just makes Jesus taste bland and unexciting.

>>127566320
GOd is not an anthromorphic being because that would be idolatry. Pantheism is the true blackpill.

>>127576434
they were doin animal sacrifices all the way back to Cain and Able. When Able's blood sacrifice was better than Cain's offering of his crop.

since we live in the NT blood sacrifices no longer please God. he came for the ultimate sacrifice ofc.

>>127576434
That was a direct request from literally God, and says in the scripture that the expected Lamb sacrifice (isaac asks where the lamb is) was not there.

The reason God asks Abraham to do so is to counter his own idolatry... nothing should come before God, not even your children. Abraham so much wanted a son (didn't have one until over 100) that when he did have a son God took a secondary role in his life.

>>127576891
Non catholics can't receive the eucharist so no wonder you found it bland.

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>>127576891
God is not a fucking cookie/cracker. why so retarded?

>>127577342
Communion isn't a unique trait of catholics anon. Protestants do this as well, except they don't involve all the ornate idols that you do and there aren't any Popes or priests there to give there approval of your salvation

>>127577480
people who worship their idolized ""god"" should all go to hell
they are committing sin time and time again everytime they do that

>>127577480
Protestant "communion" does not believe in transubstantiation therefore they don't consume the body and blood of christ. They only consume bread and wine or doritoes and mountain dew depending on her progressive they are. The eucharist also requires consecration by an apostolically ordained bishop for it to become the body of christ which protestants don't have.

>>127577480
What idols do you speak of? I know of no idols in communion?

>>127566320
Simply put, everywhere else on this planet, communities of man kill and eat dogs, indiscriminately kill different religious peoples, or attempt to enslave mankind (in the case of jews). You can't deny that christian nations act more appropriately toward the world, and that should be your starting place.

>>127577147
>counter his own idolatry
Yes this is true. Not even a false God in your mind can come before the true God. God is neither jewish, a person, a thing, or even an anthromorphic being. So what is god? what do you worship? The only legit answer would be "nothing". When you pray you think of nothing, just like meditating. When you worship, you worship nothing. That's the only valid conclusion. You can't make idols out of nothing because nothing is nothing. All of our nothingness is the same, so therefore it can't be false.

>>127566320
There can be no free will if there is no God. Not necessarily a Christian God though.

>>127577703
>you aren't saved unless an apostolically ordained bishop witnessess it
Nice. I'm sure God would damn the faithful to hell because a man didn't approve your salvation first.

>Catholic Logic
>>127577803
All the shiny things they parade around you that you bow your head to during a service.

>>127577147

>says in the scripture that the expected Lamb sacrifice (isaac asks where the lamb is) was not there.

Thanks, I didn't remember that part!

> he came for the ultimate sacrifice ofc.

I've never thought about it that way. It IS the ultimate sacrifice.

>>127577374
>>127577342
Mom is a Catholic and dad a Presbyterian. Great-granddad a Baptist. As a kid really close family friend was a Methodist. It was obvious which denominations really cared or it was purely symbolic and they received once a month or so. Presbyterian Church is where they would bless a sugar cookie. Now I am strictly Catholic.

>>127578102
If "God" tells you to do something, that means out of "nothing" it tells you to do something. It's simple as that. The universe began with God = The universe began with nothing. God is everywhere = Nothing is everywhere

Try to refute this.

>>127578102
One day you'll grow up, leave middle school, forgive your Dad, and rejoin the Church anon.

Lets hope you don't ruin your life before that happens.

>>127566320
>What are the best arguments for theism?

Divine Conservation is the most common theistic argument in the west.

>>127566320
Research Aquinas' five proofs, for a start.

If you enjoy watching stuff, you can watch William Lane Craig, John Lennox, and David Wood. They do a decent enough job.

A lot of people seem to hold the view that the universe could just appear out of nothing. This is nonsensical. They sometimes try to hold infinite past, but this is nonsensical too; you simply can't have an infinite past: it requires SOMETHING to have started it. A multiverse doesn't answer this either.

Once you get into it, you see there's more evidence for God than there is without.

God is real. God is a logical principle. The thing is people think of God the wrong way.

>>127578267
It was a Powerful lesson for Abraham. God promised him that his children would cover the earth, and he knew by sacrificing his son this couldn't possibly come true, but he chose faith and abandoned his idolatry in the process.

Christ died on the cross for us, as the Lamb, that was the last sacrifice, that we should have our own sins forgiven. Take care that you still sacrifice with your Tithe (the first 10%) and often deny things of yourself.

>>127578102
wat

>>127578574
>>>r/atheism/

Also, heaven and hell refers to all the humans collectively, not just a single human.

Eternal Life = Existence of Humanity
Hell and death = Humanity destroys itself

The bible doesn't use or refer to a person personally but to all of mankind. But it does use words like "If a man.. bla bla bla."

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>>127566320

>>127567367
>Catholic church is the largest charity in the world?
Well since charities are the biggest scam going, it makes sense they are the biggest one. How dense are you not to see how much they profit from being the biggest "charity" in the world?

>>127579113
lel

>>127579132
Prior to socialism and big government, all charity was done through the church. When your life had troubles you found your support through the church and community. I'm sure this infuriates you.

>>127569157
>The universe had a beginning so we have at least one "half" of infinity gone.
Says who? The only evidence we have is the formation of the Big Bang. We don't know anything about the universe before that. It's possible the Big Bang destroyed all that evidence or it hasn't been discovered yet.

We Christians need to stop fooling ourselves.

>>127569804
>The majority of religions believe in reincarnation
That's because of the elements in our body do recycle and live on. Humans understand the brain, but fail to realize the nucleus of every atom is a brain too, with a dna memory bank that gets passed on.

>>127579752
>We don't know anything about the universe before the Big Bang
The universe is not eternal if it had a beginning. Thus it has an explanation and a cause that exists outside of time as we understand it.

>>127580250
>We Christians need to stop fooling ourselves.
You do realize there are post ID's on /pol/ and you aren't fooling anyone you idiotic atheist you.

>>127580353
I know that, but you heretic Christians needs to stop sucking on your idolized jewish puppet and actually try to put more brain in reading and understanding the Bible. The bible does not contradict itself, you people have single digit IQs and find a simple logic difficult to understand.

>>127580558
see
>>127580250
are you just retarded then?

>>127580752
Only people who believe in their anthromorphic jewish """God""" is retarded. But don't worry, Islam is even more retarded.

God is real. You're just looking at it the wrong way.

See >>127578339

CHRISTKEKS BTFO!!!!!!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-d4otHE-YI

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>>127581155
your hero

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>>127581456

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>>127581487

>>127581456
>>127581487
>>127581524
not an arguement

you're attacking an individual instead of focusing on an argument. just like sjws

>>127567656
This

>>127578220
You do realise that bishops are the successors to the apostles through the laying on of hands, passed down the authority of heaven given directly from jesus. When youdisrespect a bishop you don't disrespect the man who has been appointed but the holy spirit who acts within him by god's authority.

So what are these shiny things paraded around during a service that we supposedly bow our heads to? I do not know what you speak of.

>>127578304
Ah my mistake. God bless!

>>127582148
>When youdisrespect a bishop you don't disrespect the man who has been appointed but the holy spirit who acts within him by god's authority.
When youdisrespect a bishop you don't disrespect the man who has been appointed but the [conscience] who acts within him by [nothing]'s authority.

ftfy*

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>>127581803
I didn't make an argument anon. I'm just casually aiming the spotlight at your hero, don't mind me.

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>>127580941

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>>127582313
>>127582148

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>>127566320
>What are the best arguments for theism?

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>>127582424

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>>127582444

>>127566320
Oh I'm glad you asked chap. If you want to have a solid moral code, someone you can talk to whenever you wan't and need his help and if you want to assure mental peace for yourself, Christianity is the right thing for you. Most Arguments of atheists against believing in God or anything at all are right, but only peoplewith a high moral understanding, behavior, education and total mental healness are able to live true atheism. Because somethings are just so hard questions that one's easiest way to explain them is by beeing a believer. You can't exactly know for sure if there is a life after death, if God is real aso. when you try to base it on facts, but Religion solves this Problems by simply giving you the Information. And don't forget, no matter what, you will get to heaven simply by beliving in God, as the bible says. There are some odd rules in the bible that are hardly accebtable such as "burn the heathens villages and cover the ashes with salt so that nothing can ever grow again there" or "Eye for Eye, Tooth for Tooth". But you don't necesseraly have to follow those rules, God just gave them, butthey aren't mandatory. They are more of a justification for when you have to do things involving killing or punishing people like beeing a soldier, if you would take that as an excuse for killing every non-christian you would break one of the 10 commandments, "Don't kill". Also without God there is no one telling you that murder or rape are bad. Because that would just be an opinion, which could be enforced as a law, but all laws are already given by God, thus all man-made laws are illegitimate or satanic, as then only the rules of nature and by that only that of the strongest would count. Just look at the United Nations Human Rights, every state has to follow them, while the UN hasn't even any democratic elections. So basically no one but God could protect the weak by making everyone believe in his rules.

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As many scientist are coming to say, we live in an illusory universe, akin to the matrix, this is controlled by the demiurge and major and minor archons, some archons populate the earth mixed with humans and are the majority.

In spirits archons look like egyptian deities, part human, part animal.

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>>127582958
The demiurge fucks you up through religions mostly, but also directly intervenes on earth, causing the momentum of things that happen, this is why christians believe they are seeing signs, as they are fooled by synchronicities.

Adherin to the religions of the demiurges causes slowly spiritual death but also Religious Trauma Syndrome, leaving you half retarded and unadapted to modern life.

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>>127582692

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>>127583143

Baptism and initiation in their churches can cause (but is not the only means) for a counterfeit spirit to enter your body, manipulating your thougts and making choices for you, think of it like being trojanized spiritually. You may not even notice it, just like many people never notice they have a trojan.

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Studying gnosticism to find a way to escape you will find the path of the serpent, seek the alien God and try to escape.

The Naassenes were especially persecuted for a reason, the serpent is key and if you ever receive gnosis it is quite possible that your eyes may turn momentarily into a reptile like form.

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>>127566320
Read the Bible, especially the Revelation by Saint John. You will see that most things there if studied well are happening today. Here`s the best trick one cannot deny that Christ is right. Look at the image attached. Now open the Bible at Revelation 13 verse 18 :

Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

Now take anything that is around you and has a barcode. Notice anything?

Go by logic. Lets say there was no God. But there is a dude who foresees that in the future there would be an evil. If you can prove the evil exists then you prove that Jesus exists and that He is right! I hope i made myself clear if not, please ask further questions.

>>127566320
Gay.... You should believe in forces greater than yourself, but only through personal experience. Religion is bullshit, never go back. One day, hopefully, you will find God is something natural, yet inexplicable. You must find harmony with nature to find God.
>go outside
>put out a bird feeder
>start a garden
>plant some flowers
>exercise
>become one with the greater essense of nature

>>127566320
I find the easiest way to get someone to the concept of a God is to go through moral relativism (Reading Dawkins and listening to Harris did nothing but strengthen my faith at a time when it was more shakey) because we have an idea of morality and right and wrong but that idea of right and wrong has to derive from something greater (not biology because I can always produce tenants of science that disprove species furthering behaviors as justification you can even look at how humans behave to know this as well). No matter what path you take you always reach God for morality and right and wrong to exist, it has to derive from something greater than is to not only be objective but tp also derive any authority. I think in my own journey from God to Christianity was relatively easy though but I struggled with believing there was a God, I wanted to but I had reached a point of nihilism to an extent (with work and seeing what people do to eachother in my day to day life and globally had hardened my heart) and had lost hope in man's redemption but I thankfully was caught before my breaking point (without getting into details I was extremely unhappy).

There are plenty lf reading materials that go outside of the emotional aspect to explain why God is a reality. CS Lewis has amazing writings, a book called Darwin on Trial is phenomenal it is argued by an academic lawyer and his style is quite phenomenal. Dallas Theological Seminary hosts tons of lectures on iTunes U and on youtube amd they subscribe to systematic theology which I would think most people on this board would appreciate. You can find countless amazing and well researched non sappy and emotional based justifications but in the end I think God will prove himself to you when you are willing to accept it and seek him out.

I hope all this makes sense I wrote it from my phone so excuse the formating please.

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>>127583192

>>127566320
>What are the best arguments for theism?
is yourself

>>127583636
>thankfully was caught before my breaking point
Atheists have to be broken. Thats the only way they truly lose their arrogance and humble themselves enough to be able to perceive the evidence for God that is all around them.

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>>127583766

>>127566320
Also God created good and evil, otherwise there would be no moral difference between walking in the park and killing children, because as already stated moral would be an opinion. Most people I know who don't actively believe in christian ideals got degenerated and had no culture or taste, as it is was their duty to stay moral without having God, but they failed. Most people will fail that without Christianity or Religion at all. All cucked movements are anti-christian Social Justice,Feminism,Communism,Anarchism and Islamism (Even though they still follow the Quran which is ok they behave horribly and have no moral or mercy and take Islam as an excuse for that and thereby dishonored our common Abrahamite God (God/Jahve/Allah) by turning Islam into a Fascist sect. And all attrocities committed by man, aren't God's fault as he (thankfully) gave us the free will to do anything we want, otherwise we wouldn't be human beeings. Also Nature is also independend from God it just follows restrictions created by God and so do we. Physics are basically Gods Invention. Just like the whole universe, as he controlls everything. Also in my opnion at least, the Evolution theory is right, you could simply say God wanted it to be so. Also the holy virgin Mary probably wasn't a virgin after beeing pregnant with Baby Jesus, Joseph probably was the biological father, God was the spiritual one as he's everyone's father. Don't take the bible word by word or totally serious, then you are either autistic or a dumb fanatic. In the creation story of the world it was stated that our earth was made in 7 days. Modern Physics say Earth is 7 billion years old. In antiquity the people were very informed in astronomy, so maybe someone with less knowledge or intentions of writing an exciting story (As the Greeks did it) made the bible. There are books of the bible which have been lost, maybe they contained a lot more answers to these questions.

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>>127583980
>Atheists have to be broken.

There are plenty of Christians with mental illness.

God sure loves treating us like shit.

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>>127566320
REMINDER:


(Mossad), the paid Catholic shills, and the Paid Russian Orthodoxy shills push this... All of these groups = the Alt-Right meme.


The "elite" is code for Jews and their blackmailed sociopath pedophiles (Hillary's mom was a Jew). Because Jews run a child sex slave ring out of Ukraine/Israel and sometimes South America (see Hatti and Clintons) and use pedophiles as their boot-licking goy politicians/celebrities.

They use the symbolism of the occult because it's a marketing campaign to cover up for Zionist and Jewish Communist crimes/power moves. The occult became degenerate as fuck ever since Thelma (Alestor Crowley), Anton (((Levy))) of Hollywood Satanism, and Navy Intelligence groups took over the scene; although it was always a place for scam artists. Freemasons became corrupted after being bought out by Jews in the mid-1800s -- thanks to Napoleon emancipating the Jews and the Rothschild take over Britain with the fall of Napoleon (See Rothschild's run on the stocks after Battle of Waterloo)

Catholics and Russians are both pro-Communism and therefor cover for them too by telling you it's "Satanists" and not Jewish Communists and their Zionist mafia allies. This is something the John Birch Society did when re-inventing the "Illuminati" meme (see Alex Jones connection).

Moloch = word meaning KING (Assyrian)

Moloch propaganda = Jewish hate of enemy king, like they do to Assad

's'atan = Aramaic word meaning "adversary", any adversary, or many adversaries.

Satan the character = Catholic meme to demonize our ancestral gods and dumb down Bible references for stupid plebeian audiences.

Lucifer = Morning Star
Jesus = Morning Star
Luciferians = Christian monks who pissed off the Pope

Judaism = pre-Christianity

Marxism/Communism = Post Christianity Judaism

Cultural Marxism = critical theory, aka strategy to demoralize the Jew's enemies.

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>>127566320
Sorry if any of this is common sense to you but here's my argument. A belief in God and an understanding of science don't cancel eathother out. Infact, imo, they go hand and hand together if understood properly. Science is what happens or happened in our tangible realm of reality, but your belief or disbelief in something has a metaphysical effect on the world aswell. String theory is real as far as I've noticed. But once you get into this area, you really need a objective view on what is right or wrong or you will make things worse or things will go bad for you. If you think about it, the Bible has been rewritten so many times, that only a few core takeaways remain. Just remember that there is evil that likes to twist Christian doctrine, and to watchout for that kind of subversion. Don't listen to one liners and catch phrases, theyre usually unchristian slants on Christian teachings. Once you learn that you want to be good for both the sake of yourself and of humanity, then you can start making sense of how religion is used as a control mechanism while at the same time learning the old unilaterally true lessons. You may have to go full circle (back and forth between good and evil) a few times for this all to make sense fully (which is dangerous), and the thats why I recommend just being a skeptical Catholic or Orthodox Christian and leaving at that. Btw, fuck the Pope.

>>127566320
We probably have no prophetes any more because in the modern age the people don't recognize them as such, even if they (like a Prophet does) make religious and social reforms such as Martin Luther did them, they think those people aren't Prophets (Which doesn't mean I recognize more Prophets than there are in the bible). And to state my last Point, even if God or the holy Spirit don't exist, people still claimed (even still Claim today) to be inspired or adviced by them and if we believe in God then he in fact exists, if not as the allmighty Lord, then as feeling of unity whose members can be overtaken by the holy Spirit (And this is what we need unity,unity for all people through one common faith), which could be interpreted as the best ideas and Motivation one can reach through believing in the ideals in Christianity. And it would be the most stupid conclusion makeable that Religion or christianity are there for pure believing, no believing should make you happy at first and if you sre willing then you can give something back to God, Christianity and the Christians. Deus Vult!

>>127582667
Rabbis do the same stuff more frequently but it never gets reported. It's so telling.