CATHOLIC GENERAL: SWEDES, SPANISH, MALIANS, EL SALVADORANS &

Here are your daily readings
http://usccb.org/bible/readings/052117.cfm

Community links, such as recommended media, are now below in pastebin links. Remember to recommend things to add to the lists!
>Catholic Encyclopedia
http://www.newadvent.org/
>Online Breviary
http://divinumofficium.com/cgi-bin/horas/officium.pl
>Directory for Finding a Latin Mass (U.K)
https://lms.org.uk/mass-listings
>Directory for Finding a Latin Mass (U.S/Can)
http://www.ecclesiadei.org/masses.cfm
>Directory for Finding a Latin Mass (Ireland)
http://www.latinmassireland.com/mass-listings/
>Laudate App
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.aycka.apps.MassReadings&hl=en
>Recommended Movies
http://pastebin.com/xAL9w4fk
>Recommended Books
http://pastebin.com/K8DUUPdC
>Recommended Music
http://pastebin.com/dgqjiSgs
>Beauty of Creation
http://pastebin.com/VKGZEvXK
>Tales of Love and Virtue
http://pastebin.com/Qt3RUsXA

>>126427193
Nice, you can easily forget that there are catholics even in non-catholic countries.

>>126427193
The pope is a traitor

>>126427193
Around 100 years ago, Catholics were given the right to vote and hold public office in Sweden. I still question the wisdom of the members of parliament at the time.

>>126427348
Agreed. For some reason, the idea of a Catholic Cardinal of Sweden just seems weird to me. He was a convert from Lutheranism so he should know how to convert the rest of 'em

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>>126427592
Yeah, Catholics are the problem in Sweden

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Update on relations between SSPX & the Holy See, lads

>For the record: Rome has given SSPX right to ordain priests without permission of local ordinary

>It started with absolution and moved recently to marriage. Now Pope Francis has given the three bishops of the Society of St. Pius X (SSPX) the right to ordain priests without the permission of the local ordinary.

>Starting at the 15:25 mark in the video below, His Excellency Bishop Bernard Fellay, states: "Last year, I received a letter from Rome, telling me you can freely ordain your priests without the permission of the local ordinary. So if I can freely ordain that means the ordination is recognized by the Church not just as valid but in order. ... So this is one more step in this acceptance that we are, let me call it, 'normal Catholics.'" (video at link)
- http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2017/05/for-record-rome-has-given-sspx-right-to.html#sthash.HnhJ7Hgk.dpuf

>>126427739
You think the Catholics are any less cucked?
>Bishop Anders Arborelius of Stockholm, Sweden
>Arborelius har visat engagemang för flykting- och invandrarfrågor. Han var en av undertecknarna av det så kallade Påskuppropet (2005), som syftade till att underlätta för nyanlända flyktingar att erhålla uppehållstillstånd i Sverige.

Get your head out of your ass.

>>126428303
translate pls

>>126428852
>Arborelius has shown commitment to refugee and immigration issues. He was one of the signatories of "Påskuppropet" (2005), which intended to make it easier for newly arrived refugees to obtain residence permits in Sweden.

>>126428852
>>126428303
Something about the Bishop saying the migrants (who are in the country because the Swedes have voted for government after government who opened their borders) should be helped with housing.

Here's the Bishop's (soon to be Cardinal) interview on EWTN Journey Home on why he left Lutheranism (I haven't watched it, so I don't know if it's any good)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKJ66olGZw4

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>>126429018
>being a christian is a flaw now
ok then

>>126428002

Noice :)
SSPX have monthly tridentine masses in Oslo. In time, I'll get there to experience it.

>>126428303
> The government of Sweden lets in throngs of immigrants.
> Swedes voted for the goverment
> Massive propaganda going to normalize the immigrants
> Christians sign the document since it's a christian thing to help people in need AND not getting harrased by goverment sanction immigrant violence
> Somehow all this is the fault of the Catholics

One day, Scandinavia will once Catholic and proper Christian again :)

>>126429201
Brunne says that in a hypothetical emergency scenario where a boat full of hindus or muslims are stranded near a Swedish church and have no access to their own place of worship, the church should let them hold their ceremonies in the church temporarily (this is what she actually said). That's cucked. But when Arborelius wants to make it even easier to get residence in Sweden for alleged refugees, he's being christian and criticizing it is being anti-christian?

This leads to the obvious follow-up question: Are you fucking retarded?

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>>126427193
>WHTEVER YOU CALL PPL FROM LAOS WELCOME
They are called laotian and is pronounced lay-oh-shun
Any decent fan of King of the Hill would know this.

>>126429719
>Calling Muslim guests to the church “angels“, the Bishop later took to her official blog to explain that removing Christian symbols from the church and preparing the building for Muslim prayer doesn’t make a priest any less a defender of the faith. Rather, to do any less would make one “stingy towards people of other faiths”.

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/10/05/worlds-first-lesbian-bishop-calls-church-remove-crosses-install-muslim-prayer-space/

Actively hiding your Christianity is shameful.

I understand why you'd be angry about the Catholic Bishop, but fact remains, Swedes voted for governments who you knew would open your borders. Now they're there, what's the Catholic Bishop to say? 'Let them form ghetto camps as they did in Calais. That worked out fine'

>>126430147
Breitbart is a fucking garbage source. If they wrote an article about the catholic bishop it would have you believe he sucked 15 immigrant cocks before letting them fuck his wife in front of his children. This obviously isn't true but both he and Brunne are both cucks nonetheless.

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God bless everyone here.

How was mass today?
>>126430405
Brunne is openly in a homosexual relationship with a woman. That's just plain disgusting and a sin. What sins has the Catholic bishop committed?

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>>126430830
Haven't been yet anon. Going to the evening mass. How about you?

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>>126431297
Hey anon. I'll be going to my first TLM (Traditional Latin Mass) today at noon. I'm very excited!

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>>126431356
Very glad to hear it Americanon. I greatly prefer the TLM. Are you comfortable with the responses etc? (Not that you need to be. Majority of churches have sheets at the back with the order of mass on)

>>126430830
>homosexual relationship with a woman
>a sin
Can you point out which part of the bible that prohibits homosexual female relationships?

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>>126432122
Romans 1:26-27
>26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; 27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.

>>126431590
Thanks! I'm still learning them, but I will definitely need to follow the missal for the first few times I go.

The Latin masses I've seen online seem to show a lot more reverence than the average Novus Ordo mass.

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>>126433032
Oh, in my opinion, they certainly do. There are, of course, many NO massess which show equal reverence, but the whole structure of TLM means even the most reveren NO can't match it.

Also, if you get the laudate app in the OP that has the order of mass (both NO & TLM) so you could have a look yourself before you go to mass if you wanted

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>>126433497
Thanks for the advice, I'll download it now.

God bless you, anon.

>>126432122
Jesus condemns fornication and lust. She is doing both

>>126427193
>believing in the sky fairy

>>126433032
That doesn't say anything about homosexual relations, you're only assuming that's what they are implying. This is a terrible argument since you have no idea what the authors of the text actually meant. It could very well be anal intercourse or bestiality. It could be literally anything, and unless you can demonstrate that homosexuality among women is part of what they consider an act contrary to nature your argument is moot.

It's also necessary to point out that he burden of proof lies on you, since everyone agrees that the bible explicitly forbids male homosexuality. Since it explicitly forbids male homosexuality, it should be assumed, exceptio probat regulam, that female homosexuality is permitted.

>>126431297
what church is that?

>>126427193
>WHTEVER YOU CALL PPL FROM LAOS
Laotian.
Did you never watch King of the Hill?

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>>126433654

>>126433654
>Year of our Lord 2017
>Still being a fedora tipper
Sad!

>>126433964
It specifies "likewise the men" where it speaks of homosexual relations, which means they commit the same abomination.

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>>126433654
Certainly one of the strongest arguments for atheism I've ever seen

>>126434041
Santa Maria dell'Orto in Rome

>>126427193
Omella is a fucking Liberal.

>>126434390
Hen from a feather. You're trying to argue from the semantics in the translated version that the likewise creates a subclause that is also true for the previously mentioned group. It could just as well refer to the fact that the men, just like the women, gave up on natural heterosexual intercourse. It's not clear at all that that sentence prohibits female homosexuality, especially not considering that it's not in the original language nad one of many translations.

And these semantic arguments are ridiculous either way. Why does the bible explicitly forbid male homosexuality and not female homosexuality if they are both sin? Why doesn't it say that a woman sleeping with a woman as she would sleep with a man is in a state of sin, right next to the corresponding sentence about male homosexuality? The unescapable conclusion is that male homosexuality is undoubtedly considered a greater sin than female homosexuality, if female homosexuality is even considered a sin at all.

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what stance should a catholic take when asked about crusades?
i keep hearing about this a lot but most of the times its people who larp to be for it when it fits their narrative

>>126434506
Not doubting you iberianon, but have you got any links etc so we know just how much of a liberal?

>>126433964
>men
>gave up natural relations with women
>consumed with passion for each other
>committing shameless acts with each other
>could be literally anything

What the fuck? Are you some kind of--

*checks flag*

Oh.

>>126434984
Undoubtedly positive. After Byzantines got BTFO at Manzikert, Muslims could have take Constantinople in days. This would have meant control of the Bosphorus & given Muslims a platform to launch raids in to Europe. Was better to fight them in their lands than in ours

>>126435451
>>126434984
Also, this shows they were indeed a defensive action https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_To-cV94Bo

>>126434984
The crusades were a series of defensive battles against Islamic aggression against Christian people.

>>126431356
Good luck m8

Don't be put off if you don't have a clue what's going on, no one does for a while.


Used to be a youtuber called SheIsCatholic, she was a bit nutty, but she had a great video introducing Latin Mass, it's what got me into it.

She then became a nun, and as a result had to remove her online presence (starting a new life etc). I've considered writing to the nuns to make an exception for that video, it was really good

>>126435531
thanks for the info
the map guy in the video made is perfect

>>126435198
Liberal enough to be preaching that nuns should be doing mass.
I don't have sources now, I'm phonefagging.

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>>126434942

Put some effort into your trolling instead of rehashing the same argument over and over.

Hey Catholic General,
I am at the verge of becoming Orthodox, any good arguments against Orthodoxy and for Catholicism before I commit?

>>126435389
Try to keep up. Nobody disputes that the bible explicitly forbids male homosexuality. Similarly, the bible should explicitly forbid female homosexuality if it is to be considered equally sinful, but such a source has yet to be produced.

GET IN HERE LADS, THE SMELL OF HERESY IS IN THE AIR
>>>/x/19037330

>>126436099
Try to produce a counterargument instead. From where I'm standing everyone should now be in agreement that the bible does not condemn female homosexuality. The side claiming this was given the opportunity to demonstrate their case but failed in doing so. Intellectual honesty then dictates that they change their view to that which has been demonstrated to be the case lest they be incapable of assimilating arguments.

>>126437179
you might also want to ask questions to a catholic and an orthodox priest before you commit because opinions of random strangers you meet on the internet arent the best way to shape your worldview, even tho they can too be helpful

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>>126437179
Read the Acts of the Apostles. Take notice of the fact whenever Peter is there, he's the one who speaks or works miracles. He is clearly the leader. Even the early Church fathers attested to this (pic relared)

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Britirenaeus...I'm heeeeeeeeeeeeeere...

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>>126438883

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>>126438916

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>>126438937

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>>126439043

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>>126437179
>>126438196
All Christian lineages claim to have come from Peter, not just the (((catholic))) church.

Fact is that the (((catholic))) church isn't following the words of Jesus Christ, written in the Bible, anymore thus making the other denominations legitimate while the (((catholic))) church illegitimate.

>>126432122
>it doesn't explicitly forbid this paticular form of this act therefore it's ok.
What a terrible arguement. By this logic, muslims are right when they ask Christians to point to where in the bible Jesus says the exact words "I am God, worship Me." God gives us reason, put it to use. Just because He doesn't say this exact thing is a sin doesn't mean it's ok, especially when similar acts are forbidden.
Also, as this anon pointed out
>>126433032
Romans clearly forbids it.
>but it doesn't speficy lesbianism explicitly
Lesbianism is not a "natural relationship" ergo it would be a sin as per romans.

>>126439723
>All Christian lineages claim to have come from Peter, not just the (((catholic))) church.

>peter was the bishop of rome
>the pope, also the bishop of rome, is his successor
>all other denominations are out of communion with the holy see, the successor of peter.
>in anons mind, this means they are from Peter's lineage.

Moreover, if the church is no longer following the bible as you claim, please point the moment to when the successors of Peter stopped acting as his successor. Under which pope did the Church lose legitimatcy?

>>126440504
The moment they formed Catholicism they lost legitimacy. Literally everything Christ preached is against what the Catholics did.

I know you don't know this because Catholics don't actually read the Bible. You should try it some time. It's a good book.

>>126441041
>The moment they formed Catholicism they lost legitimacy. Literally everything Christ preached is against what the Catholics did.
Ok, and when would that be? What year? Under what pope? What exact decrees were made that lost the church legitimatcy, and what about those decrees caused that to occur?
Ad homs and broad sweeping statements don't answer the question, I want you to tell me exactly when the Church stopped following Christ.

>>126441041
The first recorded time the church is called Catholic Church is by saint St Ignatius to the Smyrnaeans (circa 110 AD): "Wheresoever the bishop shall appear, there let the people be, even as where Jesus may be, there is the universal [katholike] Church"
Is that when the church atopped following Christ? Under pope Saint Alexander the first in 110 AD? That's the first use of "Catholic Church." If so, what did the church decree that made it wrong?

>>126433654
That's a very simplistic view of things anon.
What makes you deny the Truth of Christ? What led you to doubt God?

>>126441401
>Ok, and when would that be? What year? Under what pope? What exact decrees were made that lost the church legitimatcy, and what about those decrees caused that to occur?
>Ad homs and broad sweeping statements don't answer the question, I want you to tell me exactly when the Church stopped following Christ.
Literally the first one. Matthew 23:9
"Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven."

>>126441949
Would you prefer Peter tell you? 1 Peter 2:9
"But you (all Christians) are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God's own possession, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;"
1 Peter 2:5
"you (all Christians) also, as living stones, are being built up as a spiritual house for a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ."
What about John? Is he allowed to add anything or should we only listen to Catholic priests?
Revelation 1:6
"Jesus has made us (all Christians) to be a kingdom, priests to His God and Father—to Him be the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen."
Revelation 5:10
"You have made them (all Christians) to be a kingdom and priests to our God; and they will reign upon the earth."

>>126442333

Is your argument that the church was not meant to have any spiritual leaders after Jesus?

>>126441401
>>126441949
But at least the Latin Mass is really cool, right? Nope.
Ephesians 3:4
"By referring to this, when you read you can understand my insight into the mystery of Christ."
1 Corinthians 14:19
"in the church I desire to speak five words with my mind so that I may instruct others also, rather than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue."

>>126443074
Is your argument that Christ meant there was ONLY ONE spiritual leader after Him? That the other Apostles were meaningless? Not commanded to go forth and preach the Word?

Is that YOUR argument? If it is, good luck with your eternal judgement, friend. Good luck.

>>126427193

Mali
Spain
Sweden
Laos
El Salvador

Not a single white country listed

>>126442333
I see. So then you don't ever reffer to your biological father as father?
Is the word "dad" also banned? Or is it truly just that you can't use the word father?
Oh, and what of all the times the early church fathers use the term father?
Such as 1 cor 4:14-16 "I am writing this not to shame you but to warn you as my dear children. 15 Even if you had ten thousand guardians in Christ, you do not have many fathers, for in Christ Jesus I became your father through the gospel. 16 Therefore I urge you to imitate me.“
Or when Saint Stephen calls Abraham father in acts? "Then the high priest asked Stephen, “Are these charges true?” 2 To this he replied: “Brothers and fathers, listen to me! The God of glory appeared to our father Abraham while he was still in Mesopotamia, before he lived in Harran. 3 ‘Leave your country and your people,’ God said, ‘and go to the land I will show you.’"
Or in 1 John, when he calls believers children amd uses the term father?
"I am writing to you, dear children,
because your sins have been forgiven on account of his name.
13 I am writing to you, fathers,
because you know him who is from the beginning.
I am writing to you, young men,"

And what of the Ten Commandments? God says "honor they FATHER and mother." Why would God use the term father if nobody but God can be called father?

Such a literal interpretation contradicts much of scripture, even Jesus uses the term father to reffer to people other than God. Is He breaking His own commandment?

And once again, that's not an exact date. When did this violation occur? Under what pope? What decree violated this commandment?

>>126443352

Don't evade the question. "Is call no man father" is meant the way that you imply then there should be no spiritual leader. And besides there is not just one spiritual leader in Catholicism. Every bishop has authority, not just the pope.

>>126443591
>I see. So then you don't ever reffer to your biological father as father?
>Is the word "dad" also banned? Or is it truly just that you can't use the word father?
Classic runaround. You know damn well that phrase is referring to your spiritual father and has nothing to do with your actual father ("dad"). Oh I know I know, next you'll say, "hurr durr well why wouldn't he clarify?! who decides the semantics?!" Get the fuck out with that retarded argument.

>>126444092

Do you have a pastor?

>>126443653
See here >>126444092

>>126442638
>I'm right if I add in extra words, (all Christians), that don't appear in the original text
Amazing how that works.
>>126443144
That in no way condems the latin mass.
That is entirely based upon the assumption that latin can not be understood, Res verus non est.

>>126444188
No.

>>126444092
And what of the many times the apostles reffer to themselves as fathers of believers? They are not, at least I would assume they aren't, there actual biological fathers. Are the apostles themselves wrong?

Really getting pissed at all the stupid shit the church ia doing lately, not just francis but locally

>>126444224

You're not answering the question. If "call no man father" meant what you think it means than the church should have no spiritual leader of any kind. This is classic prooftexting.

>>126444296

Was Paul a spiritual leader? What do you make of this:

They "appointed elders [bishops and priests] for them in every church, with prayers and fasting, they committed them to the Lord in whom they believe" (Acts 14:23).

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>>126427193
If there are any French speaking anons interested on how the church evolved on migration, this is a nifty book. It goes through the history of the church on islam and migration.

I'm not through it yet but it shows how migration was something that was first seen as "only in utter necessity" and became a right. Also highlights how the pope knows nothing about living in Europe and the rising muslim population, because he comes from a country where they are maybe 2-3%, not 10% and rising as in Europe.

Also I'm absolutely fascinated about how the get their stuff on islam wrong and keep insisting that it's "the same god". Only Pope Benedict had his wits about this and installed some very needed distance.

>>126444542
What's wrong anon? What exactly are they doing?

>>126444287
>>I'm right if I add in extra words, (all Christians), that don't appear in the original text
>Amazing how that works.
Remove the parentheses. It doesn't change the meaning at all, retard.
>>126444287
>That in no way condems the latin mass.
>That is entirely based upon the assumption that latin can not be understood, Res verus non est.
Ah yes, because as the Latin language died, certainly the Church would have allowed printing and distribution of the Bible in English so that all their congregation could understand and follow the Word of the Lord, correct? Certainly they wouldn't have outlawed understanding of scripture unless going through the priests, correct? Clearly, the Catholic Church would not do such things...

>>126437179
Orthodox accept papal supremacy but use weasel words to try to reject it. They accept the pope has administrative supremacy but not ontological. However peter was the first apostle to receive the holy spirit and be ordained and jesus specifically gave him the keys to heaven. The apostles all acknowledged his position of leadership as the proto apostle. It's pretty clear that peter's supremacy wasn't just administrative but also divinely given to him.

>>126434984
They were divinely ordained except for the 4th crusade which was condemned. Thet were objectively good. The slaughter of muslims and jews was ordered by god

In the 16th century, Luther rejected the seven books that comprise the deuterocanonicals together with parts of Daniel and Esther. He did so because they contained passages that disagreed with his theology. Luther claimed that all matters of faith and practice were based on the bible alone, but the bible never gave Luther the authority to determine the books that belong in the bible. Luther also questioned "Whether James was in fact scripture" along with Hebrews, Jude, and Revelation. He referred to Jude as a "superfluous document" and claimed that Revelation "lacks everything that I hold as apostolic or prophetic."

In rejecting the canon of the bible that was accepted by Christians for over one thousand years, Luther wrenched sacred scripture from the certain foundation upon which they had been established, namely, the infallible authority of the Catholic church.

Since protestants teach that the bible alone is their ultimate authority, each book of the bible has a cloud of suspicion hanging over it because the bible does not have an infallible table of contents that lists the books that are divinely inspired and, therefore, should be included in it. If, as Luther taught and protestants believe, the Catholic church was wrong about the deuterocanonicals, isn't it reasonable to suspect from that perspective that the Catholic church made other errors? Perhaps other books should be rejected from the bible?

This is a massive problem for Protestants and they do not have a good answer for this.

>>126444557
>You're not answering the question.
You're choosing to ignore my answer because you don't like it. The Catholic Church follows the Pope as its spiritual father. It has declared the Pope infallible. Not me. There is only one who is infallible, the Lord our God.

This is what a Catholic does. Ignores anything they don't like. Fortunately, I'm born in an age where they just ignore rather than murder and burn anything/anyone they don't like. Thank the Lord others came before me and fought the ridiculousness that is Catholic doctrine.>>126444557

>They "appointed elders
>appointed elders
>elders

Wow. Really made me think.

>>126444761
>Remove the parentheses. It doesn't change the meaning at all, retard.
Yes it does. By adding in those words, which do not appear in the original text, you are ensuring your personal interpretation is the only one possible.

>>126444600
Supporting criminals.

All the church has done politically for the last rwo decades has been pushing the gov to stop going after thieves and murderers etc.

Also big scandals of priest getting dirty money, I used to like our old cardenal because he was always talking real conservative.

He once called to burn gays in the streets, but then he came out and admited that he had helped the vatican envoy escape the country after some guy had raped a bunch of kids.


It just gets hard to stay around when so much nasty stuff is happening in the hierarchy all the time, didnt want to detract from the thread.

>>126444792
Yes, Peter has supremacy. The Orthodox Church, being a descendant of Peter, follows its lineage back to the first leader of Christianity.

>>126445485
Addressing qualms one has with the church is not in anyway detracting from the thread.
As for all that stuff, I think Fulton Sheen said it best when he said to judge the church by it's best members, not it's worst. There are bad people in any institution, it's inevitable. But men are short lived, the substance and Truth of the Church is eternal, and that's what matters.

>>126445397
>"But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God's own possession, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;"
>"you also, as living stones, are being built up as a spiritual house for a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ."
>"Jesus has made us to be a kingdom, priests to His God and Father—to Him be the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen."
>"You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God; and they will reign upon the earth."
Wow. Really changed the meaning there pal. Really ensured my personal interpretation there chap.

Hallelujah. Christ is risen.

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All Roman Catholics including Jean de Vallete, Richard the Lionheart, King Baldwin, Saint Louis King of France, and the Winged Hussars!

>>126445396

I think you've realized the trap you set for yourself by inadvertently claiming "call no man father" is a rejection spiritual leaders. If this was an accurate interpretation than Jesus himself contradicted it by leaving apostles and commanding them to go forth and preach.

Spiritual authority of Peter and his successors lies in Matt. 18:18 "Truly I tell you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."

1. The key imagery refers to Isaiah 22 and indicates that Peter will be given the office of prime minister in Jesus' Church,

2. The power to bind and loose gives Peter and his successors the power to absolve sins and to make definitive judgement in matters of faith and morals.

3. Therefore Peter and his successors are protected from teaching error, because God who is truth binds and looses in heaven what Peter binds and looses on earth.

4. During the last supper, at the very time Jesus predicted Peter's three-fold denial, Jesus also reminded Peter to fulfill his office by strengthening his brothers after he repented (Lk 22:31-32).

5. After the resurrection, Jesus confirmed Peter as the head of the church when he commanded Peter three times, "feed my lambs ... Tend my sheep ... Feed my sheep," then Jesus added "follow me" (Jn 21:15, 16, 17, 19).

>>126445567
See
>>126440504

You can't claim to both descend from Peter and simultaneously be out of communion with his successor? That makes no sense.

>>126445358

Notice how the protestants spamming here ignore this post?

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About to go to my first Latin mass. Anything I should know beforehand?

>>126446216
>I think you've realized the trap you set for yourself by inadvertently claiming "call no man father" is a rejection spiritual leaders. If this was an accurate interpretation than Jesus himself contradicted it by leaving apostles and commanding them to go forth and preach.
lol. No. I reject the Pope. I do not have a Pastor. I have older adults I trust to have spiritual conversations with.
>Spiritual authority of Peter and his successors lies in Matt. 18:18 "Truly I tell you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."
Why don't you read all of Matthew 18 and come back to me. Catholics don't do this, however. You can start here:

>18 At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven? 2 And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them, 3 and said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. 4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven. 5 And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me. 6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

>>126445567
But isnt peter rocorded as an apostol the jews and not to the gentiles?

>>126445869
I didnt even want to touch the francis issue, as I assume that most people who are serious in the faith probably share myb
views on his rhetoric

>>126446616
Because it's a retarded argument from Catholics that has been BTFO long ago but they think it's some sort of game changing smoking gun. By your own logic, then Catholics are just as suspect. They, too, compiled a Bible. They, too, rejected works and decided what was divinely inspired and what was not.

It's literally the dumbest argument against Protestantism you can make, and yet, retarded Catholics continue to make it.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uv_2x6JmuaE
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PU4ycRzwqDc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPQ4F9Xd45w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noetoc2W4Pc - 1.5x speed is recomended by anon.

>>126447163

Tell me what Jesus means when he says "call no man father" since this is obviously not a rejection of spiritual leaders. You're the one that brought this up to support your rejection of the Catholic church but so far you have failed to even attempt a coherent argument.

>18 At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven? 2 And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them, 3 and said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. 4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven. 5 And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me. 6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

Tell me what this means to you. Are we to look to children for spiritual advice now? Are they our spiritual leaders? What was Jesus thinking when he appointed grown men as leaders of the church and not children?

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>>126447509
He also said "call no man master" but in Ephesian paul says slaves obey your masters.

>>126446616
>>126447385
I'll also add that Catholics continue to see Protestants as one group who all follow the same thing.

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>>126446155
These images aren't even cherry picked. They're all considered master pieces of their time. Look at the "advancement" by Christianity. Let's not even get into all the stupid floating hands before people were okay with making images of God.

>>126447385

The recognition of the inspiration of the books that make up the NT and their acceptance on a par with the OT developed gradually. The Catholic church needed to sift through more than 50 Gospels, 22 Acts and many other writings during the gradual process of determining which Christian writings should be included in the NT. This process was completed by a decree of Pope St. Damasus I in 383, and confirmed at the councils of Hippo in 393 and Carthage in 397 and 419. Subsequently, the councils of Second Nicea in 787, Florence in 1441, and Trent in 1546 approved the identical canon of the bible that Catholics still recognize today as divinely inspired. The Church made this determination by drawing on sacred tradition.

The successors of the apostles, or the popes and bishops who inherited the apostles' spiritual authority, were the ones who declared the books in the bible to be inspired. Protestants rely on the Catholic tradition on one hand while rejecting it with the other. Here's some other interesting things that most of them believe despite not having any biblical justification for:

-The sanctity of human life from the moment of conception.
-The belief that public revelation ceased with the death of the last apostle.
-Switching of the Lord's day, the Sabbath, from Saturday to Sunday.
-The prohibition against polygamy, which Martin Luther approved: "I confess," Luther wrote, "that I cannot forbid a person to marry several wives, for it does not contradict the scripture."

>>126447708
In the spanish bible it ises the words "amo" and " maestro"

Maestro meaning more like teacher or "rabbi" and amo literally meaning owner.

Those verses kinda confuse me when I read in english but in spanish it is clear to me

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>>126447509

Call no man father and yet Paul commands children to obey their earthly fathers.
Call no man master and yet Jesus and Paul told them to obey masters and governments.

Matthew
>And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven. Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant. And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.

Matthew
>They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.

Ephesians 6
>Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right. Honour thy father and mother; which is the first commandment with promise;That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth.And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord. Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ;Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart;With good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men: Knowing that whatsoever good thing any man doeth, the same shall he receive of the Lord, whether he be bond or free.

Romans 13
>Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval,

>>126447990
>The prohibition against polygamy
>"I confess," Luther wrote, "that I cannot forbid a person to marry several wives, for it does not contradict the scripture."
then Luther is retarded

Two halves make a whole, not three halves

>>126448224
I always felt like Paul diluted a lot of the message and turned into some life-hating thing that was all about restraint and ascetism.

But maybe that's just me.

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Revelations 19

>And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords.

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>>126448490
HERESY
Paul preached at the command of Saint Peter.

Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ. Let no one disqualify you, insisting on asceticism and worship of angels, going on in detail about visions, puffed up without reason by his sensuous mind, and not holding fast to the Head, from whom the whole body, nourished and knit together through its joints and ligaments, grows with a growth that is from God.

If with Christ you died to the elemental spirits of the world, why, as if you were still alive in the world, do you submit to regulations— “Do not handle, Do not taste, Do not touch” (referring to things that all perish as they are used)—according to human precepts and teachings? These have indeed an appearance of wisdom in promoting self-made religion and asceticism and severity to the body, but they are of no value in stopping the indulgence of the flesh.

>>126447990
>>126448224

>The Catholic church needed to sift through more than 50 Gospels, 22 Acts and many other writings during the gradual process of determining which Christian writings should be included in the NT. This process was completed by a decree of Pope St. Damasus I in 383, and confirmed at the councils of Hippo in 393 and Carthage in 397 and 419. Subsequently, the councils of Second Nicea in 787, Florence in 1441, and Trent in 1546 approved the identical canon of the bible that Catholics still recognize today as divinely inspired. The Church made this determination by drawing on sacred tradition.
>The successors of the apostles, or the popes and bishops who inherited the apostles' spiritual authority, were the ones who declared the books in the bible to be inspired.
Yes. This is literally zero different than anything Luther did.
>Protestants rely on the Catholic tradition on one hand while rejecting it with the other.
Again, you continue to see Protestants as one big sect who all say and believe the same thing. Since you, as Catholics, are one big sect, you can't wrap your head around Protestants believing different things.

Listen, fellas, I gotta go. I'm not declaring victory or shying away from the argument. I just have something else I have to go do. It's been nice chatting with you.

>>126448924
Sorry bro I don't get your comment.
Is the second paragraph a quote from something? Is the last one your own opinion?

>>126446344
It couldn't be claimed as such if Peter was the head of the catholic church. Early christianity wasn't the catholic church.

>The first known use of the phrase "the catholic church" occurred in the letter from Saint Ignatius of Antioch to the Smyrnaeans, written about 110 AD

Before the Roman Church was created, Peter himself created the Church of Antioch and, by being its first Bishop, their lineage is both directly coming from Peter and being oldest than the Roman Church, it has precedence towards it.

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>>126449114
You fucking normie read what he said. It says he bans asceticism.

>>126449056

I'm well aware that protestants believe different things but that is irrelevant here. The point is that b rejecting Catholic tradition, as literally all protestants do, they're rejecting the very foundation that the bible itself is founded on. Without a foundation the building collapses. You have no good argument against somebody who wants to edit the bible.

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>>126448171
Cool thanks for telling me that's damn useful

>>126449377
Yet when I read Corinthians there's shit like this:
>25 Now about virgins: I have no command from the Lord, but I give a judgment as one who by the Lord’s mercy is trustworthy.
>26 Because of the present crisis, I think that it is good for a man to remain as he is.
>27 Are you pledged to a woman? Do not seek to be released. Are you free from such a commitment? Do not look for a wife.
>28 But if you do marry, you have not sinned; and if a virgin marries, she has not sinned. But those who marry will face many troubles in this life, and I want to spare you this.

>29 What I mean, brothers and sisters, is that the time is short. From now on those who have wives should live as if they do not; 30 those who mourn, as if they did not; those who are happy, as if they were not; those who buy something, as if it were not theirs to keep; 31 those who use the things of the world, as if not engrossed in them. For this world in its present form is passing away.

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>>126449056
I'm refuting only one misinterpretation that's always used. You don't have to ascribe to that interpretation as a protestant, but we will discuss it either way since it is so common. Martin Luther is a piece of shit he was friends and aliies with the Ottomans and he did not believe in free will. His hatred for drink and icons shows islamic influence

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>>126449757

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>>126449056
Otherwise thanks for the politeness I really do appreciate it.

>>126449282
>Before the Roman Church was created, Peter himself created the Church of Antioch and, by being its first Bishop, their lineage is both directly coming from Peter and being oldest than the Roman Church, it has precedence towards it.

Why does it matter that Antioch was settled before Rome? Apostolic succession isn't tied to physical places. If Peter builds a church in one place and then moves and builds a church in another place his authority doesn't separate from Peter and stay with the building he first built. It stays with Peter no matter where he travels.

>>126448924
>Paul preached at the command of Saint Peter.
Galatians 1:21-1:24 "21Later I went to the regions of Syria and Cilicia. 22I was personally unknown, however, to the churches of Judea that are in Christ. 23They only heard the account: The man who formerly persecuted us is now preaching the faith he once tried to destroy.24And they glorified God because of me.”

Paul's mission started before he meet Peter.
Acts 9:3-9:6 "3 As he neared Damascus on his journey, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him. 4 He fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him, “Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me? 5 “Who are you, Lord?” Saul asked. “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting,” he replied. 6 “Now get up and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do.”

Just like Peter, Paul received authority straight from Jesus. Even after meeting Peter, Paul didn't received orders directly from Peter.

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>>126449676
There was a famine. HE was telling them to wait off marriage during times of stress like that. Although it is fine and good to be celibate if that is your holy callling. You need to understand taht passage IN LIGHT of COLLOSIANS

READ IT AGAIN

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>>126450066
HE goes to Peter in Galatians to recieve the gospel from him. And it is in old church letters and history books (Tradition) that records that Paul was under Peter's authority while he served.

You can receive a revelation from God and still be subservient to someone. Nathaniel was subservient to King David and yet both were chosen by God.

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“In the city of Rome the episcopal chair was given first to Peter, the chair in which Peter sat, the same who was head--that is why he is also called Cephas [‘Rock’]--of all the apostles, the one chair in which unity is maintained by all. Neither do the apostles proceed individually on their own, and anyone who would [presume to] set up another chair in opposition to that single chair would, by that very fact, be a schismatic and a sinner. . . . Recall, then, the origins of your chair, those of you who wish to claim for yourselves the title of holy Church.”
-St. Optatus, “The Schism of the Donatists,” c. 367 A.D.

“They (the Novatian heretics) have not the succession of Peter, who hold not the chair of Peter, which they rend by wicked schism; and this, too, they do, wickedly denying that sins can be forgiven (by the sacrament of confession) even in the Church, whereas it was said to Peter: 'I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of Heaven, and whatsoever thou shalt bind on Earth, shall be bound in Heaven, and whatsoever thou shall loose on Earth shall be loosed in Heaven.'"
-St. Ambrose of Milan, “On Penance,” 388 A.D.

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>Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.

>And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

>>126449902
It matters, because Peter himself never choose a successor to Christianity as a whole. He ended his life as the Bishop of Rome, and this view is still debated.
You cannot claim that the younger son has privilege over the older son, specially when the father of both never claimed the younger to be the one to inherit his position.

It is only the Catholic Church that claims to be the single successor to Peter, a view that is based on influence and power, not on any Biblical or historical reference.

>>126430830
>How was mass today?
Good. Very good homily about what it means to actually "follow [Christ's] commandments," focusing on how what we think and believe affects what we do and the importance of living a Christian life in all aspects, even in our inner most thoughts and judgements.
Also quite a bit about judging others, which is always helpful as one who struggles with that.

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>>126451719
>On earth as it is in heaven.

Is there one ruling God's people in heaven? Yes that is God. Is there one on earth that rules God's people, before it was the Throne of David but now it is the Vicar to that throne. The Pope.And even within the Godhead there is the Holy Father who the Son and Holy Ghost are subject to in hierarchy while still being fully God in all majesty.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cpRDlhVHDI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPDCsi1mbhE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJS-HZWB3wE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzW1P_v6-to
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wa0IN02qoJI

Got some great tunes from anon on trump general.

>>126450292
Galatians 2:11-14
"11 When Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned. 12 For before certain men came from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles. But when they arrived, he began to draw back and separate himself from the Gentiles because he was afraid of those who belonged to the circumcision group. 13 The other Jews joined him in his hypocrisy, so that by their hypocrisy even Barnabas was led astray.14 When I saw that they were not acting in line with the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas in front of them all, “You are a Jew, yet you live like a Gentile and not like a Jew. How is it, then, that you force Gentiles to follow Jewish customs?"

Paul literally criticized Peter in front of all men for his wrongdoings. So much for your "papal infallibility".

Also,
Galatians 1:1-2
"1 Paul, an apostle—sent not from men nor by a man, but by Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised him from the dead— 2 and all the brothers and sisters[a] with me, To the churches in Galatia:"

Galatians 1:11-12
"11 I want you to know, brothers and sisters, that the gospel I preached is not of human origin. 12 I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ."

Galatians 1:18
"18 Then after three years, I went up to Jerusalem to get acquainted with Cephas[b] and stayed with him fifteen days."

Paul literally wrote that the Gospel he received didn't came from Peter. He claims that it came from no man but Jesus. He does this twice in the Letters to the Galatians, even after having meeting Peter.
There is Biblical evidence that contradicts the "tradition". Bible > pope

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>>126452422
No not really the Cardinals have such authority. While Jesus appeared to Paul first remember that God appears to all men first, while we are still all subjected to the Bishops, and priests, and arch bishops, and pastors, and deacons, and elders, and cardinals, and popes.

For God has revealed to all men his gospel before and without any man's need or desire. But Paul was subjected to the powers of this world as we are in peace and truth. While Paul did in fact go to Peter to make certain the truth he received, to verify the message he recieved. Now If I had recieved a vision from God I too would go to the elder, the chief the Church to verify the message I likewise have recieved.

You fail to understand the purpose of a Cardinal. The Pope is like the Chief Executive, and God is the owner of a company. The Cardinals and arch bishops are the upper management and the priests are lower management, the laymen are the consumers of that company. And as with a business upper management can come and discuss issues with the chief.

>>126451719
The orthodox church also accept rome as the seat of peter

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>>126454671
Kek

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>>126454671
You know I really want to be nice to the Orthodox and I almost always am, but they are always instigators and saying out of turn things. I really do like them a lot. And I am sorry I have had to judge them in the past, but they condemned me calling me a devil worshipper all the time. By many different anons, for posting pictures like this. It's just very impolite.

>>126454671
>>126455741
What doesn't make sense is that even if we say that peter's seat was antioch and not rome, all that means is that the bishop on Antioch is the true head of the church.
By merely recognizing Peter's place doesn't that already disprove rejection of papal supremacy? At that point its just an argument over who should be the pope

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>>126456359
Well that's just confusing. At that point anyone could be the pope in their eyes.City versus city, sounds like division and not the good king, the Devil would want the cities of Christ fighting over who is the greatest, like how the disciples fought over who was the greatest.

>>126443508
España is white you redneck.

>>126456724
To be fair, that is sort of what has happened with all the schisms. Christians have been fighting amongst ourselves forever, even the apostles did it as you mentioned.

>>126427193
Knowing Francis I'm sure there a special kind of cuck

Traditionalist pope when?

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>>126447976
Augustus if were a real pagan would be the strangest pagan literally ever. He only liked two religions. Roman paganism, which he controlled greatly, and early Judaism. I mean the kind in the New testament.

He re legalized Judaism, before his father Julius Caesar Judaism was a punishable offense. You could not practice it in the primary Roman provinces. He legalized it and invented the modern synagogue (julius Caesar). By stating taht Judaism was not a "religion" and made "schools" to "learn the ways of the Jews", hence the modern synagogue. This was the purpose of a synagogue was to primarily get around Roman religious restrictions. And th Romans allowed it. Julius Caesar died and more Jews died at his funeral than pagan Romans, they wept even louder, it is reported. Which is awfully strange for a man who was apparently a "pagan goy".

He then claimed Augustus as his son. Augustus right of the bat re legalized Judaism (because the original law only lasted for several decades.) and made it a permanent statute. Like his father he had temple sacrifices done to the Lord by the High priest in Jerusalem. He also had the High priest make temple sacrifices to the Lord on behalf of the Roman people.
He also made many many genreous temple Donations, including giving 100 head of fine cattle to the Lord. And he gave Jews more citizenship for free than any other ethnic or religious group. He also made lots fo laws protecting their religious observances of Torah, overriding Roman law in many cases but not all. The Jews could not stone a pagan in their lands.

Overall Synagogues are called "Augustustan" in honor ofhim by the jews to this day.

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Need your advice

Moving to a new area and looking for a Latin Church in my area...

Looking last night I found a church that says the Latin Mass...but on further review I found it was closed in 2015...shame

So I kept looking

the closest church that says the Traditional Latin Mass is 1 hour away and its SSPV

Is it a sin to go to this church?

I don't exactly think Francis is doing a great job but I still think he is the Pope and don't deny that

Will I get in trouble for going to a SSPV church?

I'd rather be in communion with the church but the traditional mass isn't offered anywhere nearby

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anyone read this?

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>>126447976
This is the Statue of the Rape of Persephone by Hades, made in 1621 by a Roman Catholic, Gian Lorenzo Bernini.

>>126458704
>I'd rather be in communion with the church but the traditional mass isn't offered anywhere nearby
Then I'd say you'd have to settle for non-latin mass.
May I ask, if you don't mind telling, what city you live in? I'd be happy to try and help you find a traditional church in communion with the Holy See.

>>126458952
Poughkeepsie NY would be the biggest city in the area

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>>126458601
Sorry I mean more Jews cried at Julius Caesar's funeral than anyone else. It was ridiculous. Jews did not associate with goyim, in Roma or not. It is damn strange that they would do that. The jews were up to something big with the Caesars.

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I don't like that they constantly want my precious shekels because retarded church tax
I don't like that they fuck children
I don't like that the pope is a raging muslim loving communist

the rest is fine by me

>>126459074
Have you tried "St. Joseph's Church at 9 Lafayette Street, Poughkeepsie, New York?"
They say they offer "a Traditional Latin Tridentine High Mass at 12 Noon each Sunday."
They seem to still be open, seeing as they still publish a bulletin

>>126459545
thats the church that closed down in 2015

they merged it with a Spanish speaking community and lost the Latin

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>>126459457
Unloading

>>126459457
>I don't like that they constantly want my precious shekels because retarded church tax
God died for you. The least you could do is give a small bit back.
>I don't like that they fuck children
They don't. Some priests were pedophiles, that is true, and members of the church did cover that up. And that was wrong, and the church admits as much.
>I don't like that the pope is a raging muslim loving communist
He's not nearly as bad as the media makes him out to be, but yeah, he's certainly lacking as a leader in these troubled times.

Come home to the Church anon. Come home.

>>126459792
>They don't. Some priests were pedophiles
I'm pretty sure that there is still a shitload of them out there

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>>125637346

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The irony of this if you're not a Roman Catholic

>>126459902
There are, but that's true of every institution. Now the church hands them over to the proper authorities. I'm sure that there are still some places that cover it up, but once again that's true of every institution ever.
Not that it makes that OK, but it's not fair to condemn the Church based off the worst members of it. Especially when other institutions, such as the American Public School system, most Protestant faiths, and groups like the DNC all have the same problem, and nobody condems them.
Hell, if you suggest that a major group like the DNC has pedophiles in it you get called crazy by the MSM. The bias is absurd.

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>>126453173
>while we are still all subjected to the Bishops, and priests, and arch bishops, and pastors, and deacons, and elders, and cardinals, and popes

Peter 2:4-5 "4 As you come to him, the living Stone—rejected by humans but chosen by God and precious to him— 5 you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house[a] to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ."

Peter 2:9-10 "9 But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God’s special possession, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light. 10 Once you were not a people, but now you are the people of God; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy."

St. Peter, the first Pope himself, openly said, Bible reference above, that every Christian is a "chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation".

The catholic church hierarchy, or the one who was appointed leader of Christianity by Jesus Christ himself, who is in the right? Who should I follow? Peter or the one who claims to have authority because of Peter?

Catholics are anything, except true followers of Jesus. Catholicism is anti-Christ.

>>126444287
>>126444761
Also the Mass is no place for instruction. That's what Catechesis and Preaching is for.

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>>126460846
No actually 2 Peter was written to a Jewish only Church. He is literally referring to Israel (that is Roman Catholic)

>>126459653
Huh, well then, it looks like you're out of luck for anything closeby.
SSPX looks like they might return to full communion within a few years, so perhaps just forgo non-tradtional mass until then? Perhaps you can use the opportunity to help bring some casual Catholics to becoming more traditional and devout? Every opportunity is one to serve the Lord, even if it may at first seem like it's not.
Sorry I couldn't help anon.

>>126460846
All the early Christians still contradict the five solaes

>>126461096
I didn't know Bill Nye was an archbishop

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>>126461418
Kek

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>>126460984
1 Peter 1:1-2
"1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To God’s elect, exiles scattered throughout the provinces of Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia and Bithynia, 2 who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to be obedient to Jesus Christ and sprinkled with his blood: Grace and peace be yours in abundance."

2 Peter =/= 1 Peter 2. First and Second Epistles. The early postings were of the First Epistle of Peter, second Chapter. This one above, the beginning of his Epistle where the writes to "God's elect, exiles scattered throughout the provinces of Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia and Bithynia". Peter was either in Rome or Antioch, without any reference to any of them.

The content clearly says that every single member of the Christ's Church is, by itself, a preacher, a bishop.

>>126447089
>About to go to my first Latin mass. Anything I should know beforehand?
Latin

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Saint Ambrose - He convinced the Roman Emperor confess his sins of murder in this letter.
http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/340951.htm
He risked his life doing that, Theodosius was very temperamental.

Mud pope when?

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>>126428303
shut your filthy mouth liberal. The protestant church of Sweden is the worst in the world.

Our catholic church is based. This is how one of our priests took care of a femen agitator

>>126462703
"Cardinal Sarah when", you mean.

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>>126462344
They are written to Jews. Chosen Priesthood and Chosen People and Chosen Nation. That's a reference to the Jews. In 1st Peter I couldn't tell you if it was exclusive to the Jews but there were was a huge Jewish audience.

Peter is called the Rock of the Church in Mattew
And don't post Saint Anthony. He was a Catholic

What kind of clothes should I buy for mass? I only own track suits and I think that is a dumb idea to show up like that.

>>126462738
>out of my body

This is always ridiculous to me. They don't mean what they say. No one is entering their body. They just don't want people to say things against what they do with their body. They hide it behind more powerful wording that misrepresents the issue.

>>126462344
>elect exiles scattered through provinces of Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia and Bithynia

Those provinces had a huge Jewish population. Also scattered exiles is a way of Peter saying Dispora. 1 Peter had a large amount of Jews he was writing to. Just remember also being called a living stone needs to be understood of Jesus calling him the Rock of the church, it's not a denile of authority. Isaiah was a "living stone that laid a foundation" but that doesn't mean that the Throne of David was not above him nor the High Priesthood of Jerusalem.

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>>126447089
>>126462400
1 Corinthians 14:18-20
"18 I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you. 19 But in the church I would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct others than ten thousand words in a tongue.20 Brothers and sisters, stop thinking like children. In regard to evil be infants, but in your thinking be adults."

If you don't know Latin, don't go to a Latin mass. Trust Paul's opinion on this.

>>126462840
Khaki pants, button up shirt and tie are always a good choice.
Not underdressed if a church is more conservative about dress wear, not over dressed if they're more lax.

>>126463418
None of the early Christians believe in the five solaes

Explain that

>>126462775
He would make a great pope. Getting priests to face the altar at mass would be a great step in the right direction. It's too bad pope francis disagrees with him.

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SANCTE MICHAEL ARCHANGELE DEFENDE NOS IN PROELIO CONTRA NEQVITIAM ET INSIDIAS DIABOLI ESTO PRAESIDIVM. IMPERET ILLI DEVS SVPPLICES DEPRECAMVR TVQVE PRINCEPS MILITIAE CAELESTIS SANTANAM ALIOSQVE SPIRITVS MALIGNOS QVI AD PERDITONEM ANIMARVM PERVAGANTVR IN MVNDO DIVINA VIRTVTE IN INFERNVM DETRVDE.

AMEN

>>126462797
>>126463165
Point being? It was written to ethnical or religious jews?
If it was written to ethnical jews religiously converted to Christianism, are you implying that these words are to be used solely by ethnical jews and not by other Christian people? Should we ignore all the words Jesus said while talking directly to jews because we, as non jews, shouldn't receive and follow the Gospel?

>And don't post Saint Anthony. He was a Catholic
Read his quote in the picture and think about it.

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>>126462518
He's one of the four doctors of the Church along with Saint Augustine (who did believe in free will his whole life btw) and Saint Jerome and Pope Gregory the Great.

>>126464163
He didn't believe in sola fide

>>126461036
>>126461096
>>126461137
>>126461202
Thanks

>>126464163
Answer my question

Why did none of the early christians believe in the five solaes

>>126463418
That's the antique armory with weapons from the past. The armed police at Vatican is government workers paid for by the secular Italian state. Every country is required by law to have a police force for the protection of the populace.

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>>126464163
I've studied that man like a Jew eyeing his shekels I've read all of his quotes and am a huge fan. HUGE. To be honest his words apply to pol not to you.

>Religious or ethnic Jews
Don't be such a goy,. Get real. 2 Peter referrs to their degeneracy, let's be realistic here. Peter was completely redpilled.

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>>126464345
Your welcome

Someone yesterday said that pope Benedict " brought Anglicans back into the fold". What did he mean by this?

>>126463689
>The Five Solas are five Latin phrases (or slogans) that emerged during the Reformation to summarize the Reformers’ theological convictions about the essentials of Christianity
How could a Christian in year 10 believe in something written at 1500+. A 15 century difference is a reasonably big amount of time.

Specially when the Holy writings weren't disseminated and compiled to all.

>Sola scriptura
Ephesians 3:4
"By referring to this, when you read you can understand my insight into the mystery of Christ"
Paul wasn't against this. In fact, one of the criticisms against catholic Church is exactly the fact that the Church treats its members as "layman".

>>126464750
Why do you worship the text of letters written by a man who practiced sacramental Christianity?

>>126464750
Go look up at how the reading culture at the time is. It's Communial in nature and most can't read

Then we get all the early Christians confirming that there is no sola Scriptura. Irenaeus is an example of this

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>>126464541
As obedient children, do not be conformed to the passions of your former ignorance
But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light

eloved, I urge you as sojourners and exiles to abstain from the passions of the flesh, which wage war against your soul. 12 Keep your conduct among the GENTILES/GOYIM honorable

OY VEY WHAT IS THIS

ch 2 vs 17
>Honor the emperor
Goyim don't need to be told this.
>to the scattered elect people of the Diaspora

Only Jews are called dispora goy.
>chosen nation
Got to be Israel that repented.

1 Peter is littered with versus referring to how completely degenerate they were. Got to be Jes .

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>>126465292
>>126464163
>Chosen race
>race
>race
>nation
>keep conduct among goyim honorble
>stop being degenerate
>to the Dispora

Oy vey

>>126464964
Baptism is Biblical canon. Jesus was baptized. There is nothing inherently wrong with sacraments.

>>126465153
>Irenaeus argued that since he could trace his authority to Christ and the Gnostics could not, his interpretation of Scripture was correct.
Irenaeus was wrong. This is what we both agree.

>>126465803
Protestantism is still false

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Read Acts guys it has Paul's conversion and Peter escaping from Prison. Lots of adventures.

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This is called Roman Tunnels

>>126466020
I might, or not, agree. Attack them with the Biblical reference compared to their claims and we discuss.

People who worship the pope instead of Christ tend to believe that you can just say "God want you to do X" without showing any Biblical reference and want us all to believe it because an Apostle who created a Church in Antioch before going to Rome somehow determined that the Church of Rome was above all else and just forgot to write it down, but this is clearly what Peter said, right?

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>>126466301
And yet those same people and the early Christians contradict protestantism

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>>126466469
St. Ambrose taught St. Augustine and converted him. Saint Anthony was alive at that time too, in the desert as usual. What a time to be alive. God bless I'm going see you all

>>126466301
Peter couldn't write. The church fathers did write it down though

>>126466506
How can you contradict something that didn't existed by then? We might all be contradicting something we believe to be true but Jesus, upon his return, specifies as being wrong.

Once again, give something the protestants say that is challenged by Biblical reference, not just by opinions, and we can prove or not they are in the wrong.

Hello everyone. Had a family reunion and talked to some of my (old) uncles/aunts about the Catholic Church. It was a great experience.

>>126467188
If sola fide is true, why did the Bible state the need for works and conduct?

>>126467721
That's great anon. Good to hear people connecting over the faith

>>126467827
Because protestants are wrong. Nobody should just say they are wrong because they aren't catholic though. We should affirm they are wrong because they contradict something Christ himself said. This is the main point.
This put aside, protestants should repent and enter once again in communion with Christ.

>>126467083
Write it down in their own terms or write it down from Peter himself with his signature, as it was the common thing during those times?

Also,
>The church fathers
Matthew 23:9 "Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven."

>>126467721
Good to hear it.

>>126467188
>How can you contradict something that didn't existed by then?
There's a difference between contradicting and counter-arguing.

If someone after Luther says "Luther was wrong", he is both contradicting and counter-arguing.
But if Luther says "sola fide is the true faith", but the early Christians, the Bible, or any other source from BEFORE Luther say otherwise, they are contradicting him.

>>126468161
>"Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven."
Who is your daddy, and what does he do?

>>126468254
He is a bank clerk and he is my father, not my "Father". The first word implies biological ascendancy. The second is putting a religious leader in position of ruling over you, thing that isn't supported by the NT

>>126468161
Babby's first scripture interpretation. I guess Paul was a satanist for calling himself a father.

You know I think I'll go with the scriptural interpretations of the people who wrote the bible rather than a guy who has just started reading it

>>126468497
>protestant exegesis

>>126444574
Interesting

In your opinion, what have they got wrong about Islam and Christianity having the same God?

They strike me as having developed reasonably similar concepts

>>126468161
>Matthew 23:9 "Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven."
See
>>126443591
Interpreting that verse literally is utterly retarded, since that means everyone, including Christ Himself, break it if you interpret it as a ban on the word father.
Especially when you factor in language differences. Is it the original greek "Πατέρα" we aren't supposed to call people? Or is it any version of the word father? Do other versions of father count, like papa or dad?

>>126468208
This is true. "Contradicting" can be used as "being in conflict with". Your and his point are valid, and I made a mistake in that argument.

>>126468585
Jesus > Paul. If Jesus says something and Paul says another, Paul is not in the right. Christianity must follow the teachings of Christ. We can use other authors, be one of the Twelve, be a 20XX author, as another means of guidance. But still, Jesus > rest.

I would like to read again to argue more about this. In what Epistle did Paul refereed to himself or others like that?

>>126468778
>In your opinion, what have they got wrong about Islam and Christianity having the same God?
Not him, but """god""" as depicted in islam is Vengeful, hatefilled, vindictive and extremely close minded. He does not care about salvation, nor is he depicted as loving all mankind. He does not value free will, but demands submission. Forgiveness is not in his nature, only punishment. He explicitly demands "an eye for an eye," not "love your enemies" (which is condemned bby him).
And most importantly, he is not 3 beings in one, and Jesus is not his son.

The god of the quaran is nothing like the One True God of Christanity, there are just some similarities because islam is a synthesis of pagan and Christian thought with the purpose of allowing muhhamad to control those he conquered.

They are not the same god, and frankly it should be considered a sin to claim as much

>>126464746
The Anglican Ordinariate. It allows Anglicans to be in full communion with the Church while their retaining much of their liturgy and practices.

>>126447089
Ignore the shotposters

Go and enjoy it, expect that you won't know what's happening the first few times, slowly you'll begin to get it

>>126469038
>Jesus > Paul
Matthew 15:1-7 "1Then some Pharisees and teachers of the law came to Jesus from Jerusalem and asked, 2“Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? They don’t wash their hands before they eat!”

3Jesus replied, “And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition? 4For God said, ‘Honor your father and mother’a and ‘Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death.’b 5But you say that if anyone declares that what might have been used to help their father or mother is ‘devoted to God,’ 6they are not to ‘honor their father or mother’ with it. Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition. 7You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you:"

Jesus Himself reffers to people other than God by the word Πατέρα, the same word used in Matthew 23:9. Unless Jesus is violating his own commandment, which means He could sin, then it's quite clear he was not saying you must not reffer to anyone but God by Πατέρα.
1/2

>>126469409
>They are not the same god, and frankly it should be considered a sin to claim as much
But this is the Pope Benedict XVI's viewpoint, not (((francis)))'s viewpoint. It was the Pope who got away from papacy who though like that, not the one that had the extremely opposite view about it and who succeeded him.
This makes you think, don't you?

>>126469038
>>126470226
When we look at the context of that verse, we read this:
1Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 2“The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. 4They tie up heavy, cumbersome loads and put them on other people’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.

5“Everything they do is done for people to see: They make their phylacteriesa wide and the tassels on their garments long; 6they love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues; 7they love to be greeted with respect in the marketplaces and to be called ‘Rabbi’ by others.

8“But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have one Teacher, and you are all brothers. 9And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. 10Nor are you to be called instructors, for you have one Instructor, the Messiah. 11The greatest among you will be your servant. 12For those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted."
From this context, we can understand that Jesus was not banning the use of the word father. Rather, he was condeming the pharisees for exalting themselves due to their position as religious leaders.

Now, one might say Catholic priests do that as well, and some certainly do. Luckily, that's something Francis has been cracking down on, and rightfully so.

But Matthew 23:9 is not about the use of the word father, it's about humbling oneself as a servant of others, as all Christians, and especially the Clergy, are called to do.

My Priest had a five minute speech about the anus and farting. Should I consider moving churches now?

>>126470296
Francis has flaws, you aren't telling use anything new.
He's hardly the first pope in history to have problems. And he's far far far far far far from the worst one we've had. They're all just men after all, they're going to sin and some may even be evil.
But that damns the man, not the Church itself. A rational person doesn't decry an institution because it has some bad members, because all earthly institutions do. To do such is to throw the baby out with the bathwater as it were.

>>126470804
My first instinct is to say yes, but I'm going to need a bit more context.

>>126470644
>But Matthew 23:9 is not about the use of the word father, it's about humbling oneself as a servant of others, as all Christians, and especially the Clergy, are called to do.

My interpretation is that Jesus used the "Father" name to imply the same as "elders" in the previous passages you exposed. An attack against the men of the law who borrow God's authority to do something, specially when this thing does not go towards the scriptures.

I commented back then because anon claimed the writings of the "early church fathers" must be law, irregardless of what it was claiming and its accordance, or lack of it, towards the Gospel.

IMO your opinion towards it is correct but for a single thing: Francis claimed that people who did nothing against what is in the Bible could not be considered Christians in one case and that are threats to the "common good". I can cite his quotes about libertarianism and firearms manufacturing at least.

A use of religious authority to talk about ideological matters.

>>126427193
Catholicism treats you as a pleb. Incapable of thought. They stuff words in your mouth and grind the word into a paste assuming you have no teeth of your own. You just have to move your mouth and swallow. nay, i have teeth. Long jagged fangs. Reason is my incisor, Evolution is my molar, Atheism are my canines.

>>126471902
You mistook "Catholicism" with "Jeowa's Witnesses", but you are not so far from being right. You must be euphoric right now.

>>126471902
Which is why we have the entire catechism, the canon of our beliefs, available for anyone and everyone. And that's why it goes in depth about the reasoning for each claim, citing the bible, previous councils, papal bulls and so on.
Oh, and that's why at the end of every section it even puts it in tl;dr form for people who don't want to read all of it.
That's also why the Church preserved classical thought, philosophy and science.
It's also why the Church helped and continues to help spread education around the world, with many major universities being Catholic institutions.
Oh, and all those clergy and lay people who were great scientists.

Yep, all because we just want people to shut up and accept what we say with no question.

Tell me anon, why do you deny the Truth of Christ? What has led you to believe God is not real?

>>126427288
Thank you for posting this!

>>126444574
Merci beaucoup desu.

What is the proper offering for lighting a candle

I'm wondering if we should make a Pope Francis General. I wonder if we have enough Catholics here now to maintain it and to defend the Pope against misrepresentation and slander in the media while encouraging enthusiasm for God's working in the Church and the mission of the Church.

>>126468126
>>126468208
Yeah it was great to see that they were enthusiast about my choices. Especially my old auntie, I'm planning to visit her more often and maybe drive her to mass sometimes (she lives in a retirement home).

>>126475897
I googled genderideologie the other day and saw that the pope is critical about it, gave me alot of courage to see. https://www.katholieknieuwsblad.nl/nieuws/paus-haalt-uit-naar-genderideologie-ideologische-kolonisatie

>>126477702
>maybe drive her to mass sometimes (she lives in a retirement home).
you definitely should.
I spent about a year doing community service by visiting a retirement home, and it really makes the retirees happy. Great way to serve Christ and others.
plus you can learn interesting things and meet some interesting people.

>>126470804
Unless there was a relevant spiritual point to it (or unless he was telling people not to fucking fart out loud during mass), then probably, yeah

>>126477951
Yeah old people are really lonely.
When I was a postman I had to deliver mail early in the morning to a retirement home ish (not fully a nursing home, but filled with old people). There always was this one old man waiting for me in the hall, and he always talked about politics when I was busy posting the mail.
And it is really heartwarming to see old people to light up when you talk to them in public.

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Is Catholicism still conservative? Like a lesbian bishop? Really? Muslim prayer spaces? The fucking pope sucking nigger feet? Sounds like this isn't the religion for me.

>>126472641
im trolling m8, but im not a fan of the treatment of the plebeians. If i was brain dead it makes no matter, you just say the words. The thought and depth are not necessary. I say someone else's words, words that have profundity but are not mine.

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Bump

>>126481623
>Like a lesbian bishop? Really? Muslim prayer spaces?
That was the Lutheran Church of Sweden, Catholicism still prohibits women and open homosexuals from being ordained.

Anyone have any advice for learning Latin? I'm currently practicing with my old textbooks from highschool, practicing those texts. Does anyone have any suggestions for practice?

>>126481623
That was a Lutheran

Nothing to do with us my dude

>>126459902
I'm pretty sure you will have numbers to back up the claim that there are many more cases (%) in priests that in the rest of the population.

It would also be interesting to study the date of those cases

>>126484315
Advice? don't. It's useful the same way cursive is useful.

>>126437179
they accept the primacy of the pope but only in a title alone with no authority over other bishops. the question you must ask yourself is would God would give Peter such a position without also giving some form of special authority or roles.